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[Current Mainland WebDrama 2019] The Legend of Hao Lan / Beauty Hao Lan 皓镧传

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6 hours ago, SailBeneteau said:

 

@danielassny

@kyoko22

@lyserose

 

Historical and cultural circumstances considered, the so-called "noble idiocy" is very human (aka not really black-and-white). We, in modern times, may or may not agree with the actions/decisions. As a period drama, the actions/decisions reflect the story's timeline and backdrop. And, each member in the audience (now = modern time) will interpret the actions/decisions differently --most likely, according our own life and experiences. Actually, this is what any artistic work should do for its audience! My two cents.

This is hard to explain.

 

On one hand, the writers put a modern twist to this drama by giving strong female characters in general. Do women during those time conducted themselves the way the female characters are in this drama did? Maybe but definitely not so stretched up. And there goes the noble idiocy plot. So, as a viewer, it's frustrating to switch lenses to justify certain action. I just feel like a lot of justification coming from the fondness towards Yingren as a whole. I can understand that. As a whole, the writings are inconsistent with some characters going OOC and this is really frustrating.

 

 

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1 hour ago, lyserose said:

This is hard to explain.

 

On one hand, the writers put a modern twist to this drama by giving strong female characters in general. Do women during those time conducted themselves the way the female characters are in this drama did? Maybe but definitely not so stretched up. And there goes the noble idiocy plot. So, as a viewer, it's frustrating to switch lenses to justify certain action. I just feel like a lot of justification coming from the fondness towards Yingren as a whole. I can understand that. As a whole, the writings are inconsistent with some characters going OOC and this is really frustrating.

 

 

 

@lyserose

 

Legend of Hao Lan so far: the most intriguing character for me is Ying Yiren, and his transformation from hostage-prince to the King of Qin is captivating to watch. 

 

Originally, I expected to like Hao Lan the most. But, in reality ( >47 episodes into the drama w/o skipping/skimming), there is something about HaoLan's character...

 

RE: inconsistencies with characters

I am starting to understand your point of view. And, I can see that some of the plot twists have modern-vs-ancient "issues". But, it is hard to say what women around ~300BC-230BC were like. Right? Very few were recorded in history.

 

Have you watched the "Legend of Mi Yue"? It is the story of Qin Shi Huang's Great-Grandmother.

(Highly recommend it!)

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21 minutes ago, SailBeneteau said:

 

@lyserose

 

Hao Lan's story so far: the most interesting character for me is Ying Yiren and his transformation from hostage-prince to the King of Qin.

It is surprising b/c I originally expected to like HaoLan's character the most.

 

I am starting to understand your point of view. And, I can see that some of the plot twists have modern-vs-ancient "issues". But, it is hard to say what women around ~300BC-230BC were like. Right? Very few were recorded in history.

 

Have you watched the "Legend of Mi Yue"? It is the story of Qin Shi Huang's Great-Grandmother. (Highly recommend it!)

Yes. I did. Because of Sun Li. Lol. Somehow, my preference tends to incline towards dramas within Qing Dynasty. I find the more established system during that period more intriguing. And really, I have no issue with the men's hairstyles. LOL. Haolan went OTT with the women's hairstyles, though.  

 

My fave characters in this drama are LBW and Xiaochun. In LBW, while I couldn't agree with some of his actions, I could understand where they come from. Under that manipulative demeanor, there's still that sincerity and the values that he still hold firmly to. And I like that he is smart and resourceful with that little sense of humour. Except in this later half, they over-romanticized him and even worse, turning him into a disrespectful pervert (*SIgh*). Xiaochun is feisty and smart and compares to Haolan, she is the more level-headed one which is why I like her.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, lyserose said:

Yes. I did. Because of Sun Li. Lol. Somehow, my preference tends to incline towards dramas within Qing Dynasty. I find the more established system during that period more intriguing.

 

@lyserose

 

Have you seen "Nothing Gold Can Stay"? Starring Sun Li. And, it is from the late-Qing Dynasty period. (Again, highly recommend it!)

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12 hours ago, SailBeneteau said:

 

@peanutbutterjellytime

@therewillbeddl

@insertusernamehere

 

Can we discuss other non-main characters?

 

1) Are you surprised by how YR's mother's character (Dowager Xia) turned out after YR became King? Dowager Xia is not what I imagined she would be at all. From the Zhao period, I imagined the dowager to be a wise, smart, and worldly person. From the Qin story so far (I'm on Episode 48), she seems to be harboring all the bitterness from her own past (mistreatments by her late-husband/king) and taking them out on HL and HL's son. She shows a lot of fear and resentment, as if HL were the same person as Huayang (Dowager). I suspect her character will turn out to become even more bitter...

 

2) How do you like Huayang (Dowager)? I like the scene from the episode (45 or 46) when she took off her robe to show LBW and YR her scars. Unlike what everyone thought, she has also lived in torment (despite the outward appearances of being controlling, possessive, arrogant, spoiled, etc etc etc). Also, she explained what her late-husband/King was really like....(the audience never got to see that side of him...)

 

3) What are your thoughts on XiaoChun? I look forward to seeing her story unfold...

 

4) What are your thoughts on Han QiongHua? I found her character fascinating...and her story line was so sad (just like her singing)...

 

 

Yeah of course! I think they're all fun to talk about in their own way.

1) Dowager Xia: I agree, she's very biased by her own misery in the past. I think she relates to Siluo because she herself used to be the underdog, and in her eyes Hao Lan is just like Huayang. It makes sense in a way...I think in the end she's also not very smart, and thus put her trust in the wrong person. In this show, the most evil people are the smarter ones lol Huayang is much much smarter than Xia. The queen of Zhao, evil as she was, knew right away that Hao Lan was someone that she could trust (even if she tried to kill Hao Lan a few times for her own agenda), because she was the smartest in that palace. I'd attribute Dowager Xia's actions to being biased by her own experience, and being not very smart.

 

2) I'm guessing you haven't seen the next scene (I forgot if it was ep 47 or before), but she showed them her scars for a purpose. She is at once a victim, and an instigator. That's what I love about a lot of the female characters here - you can't characterize them in one way or another. They are victims of the era, of men, of each other, but they are also trying their hardest to drive their fate the ways each of them knows how to(Huayang will discuss how she uses her own weapons with Hao Lan right after the scene where she showed them her scars, it's an interesting debate!)

 

3) Xiaochun is equally complex! I honestly cannot care less about that boring prince she used to love in Zhao, but by ep 58 you will see her very interesting development when she's in Qin. I love her friendship with Hao Lan. Even though she did betray Hao Lan (unwillingly) that one time in Zhao, I think the person Hao Lan can trust the most to always be on her side is not LBW, nor Yiren, but Xiaochun. It paints a really strong message of female friendship against all these love triangles!

 

4) I really like her character! She's not a simple concubine trying to win favors, but a princess in her own right trying to do what she can for her country. I remember Yiren in a previous ep (and HL too in some other ep) told Princess Ya that she as a princess has never tried to do anything for her country, and it's really true. QioungHua, in her own ways afforded to her by her circumstances, wants to have her own purposes and impact, and I like that a lot.

 

@lyserose Now that I'm caught up, I don't think what Yiren did was noble idiocy at all, it was through and through a manipulative move lol (I already know his character is like this from the start, so it doesn't surprise me). Like LBW explains, it's not that YR doesn't trust her; it's definitely not because he thinks she'd be put in danger. I also don't think he wants her to feel guilty. He wants her to *hate* him LOL this guy....seriously! Remember how Yiren saw Hao Lan cry when LBW failed his promise with her? He said he had never seen her cry before, she must be really heartbroken, but she said no, she was angry! Hao Lan can get angry like no other, so he knows the surefire way to him to "win" over LBW is to make her even angrier than LBW made her. Like Xichuan said, it's been 5 years after Yiren died, and Hao Lan was still angry with him every day, he must be dancing in his grave knowing that she misses him even in this way! It's no doubt a twisted manipulative move, but it really conveys all the complexity of these characters.

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1 hour ago, insertusernamehere said:

 

@lyserose Now that I'm caught up, I don't think what Yiren did was noble idiocy at all, it was through and through a manipulative move lol (I already know his character is like this from the start, so it doesn't surprise me). Like LBW explains, it's not that YR doesn't trust her; it's definitely not because he thinks she'd be put in danger. I also don't think he wants her to feel guilty. He wants her to *hate* him LOL this guy....seriously! Remember how Yiren saw Hao Lan cry when LBW failed his promise with her? He said he had never seen her cry before, she must be really heartbroken, but she said no, she was angry! Hao Lan can get angry like no other, so he knows the surefire way to him to "win" over LBW is to make her even angrier than LBW made her. Like Xichuan said, it's been 5 years after Yiren died, and Hao Lan was still angry with him every day, he must be dancing in his grave knowing that she misses him even in this way! It's no doubt a twisted manipulative move, but it really conveys all the complexity of these characters.

What's his purpose of making her hate him? So he wanted her to hate him for his noble reasons? And he wants to "win" over LBW by leaving a deeper impact but still the bottomline is, he made use of her? I don't know how to brain this but no matter how I put these two and two together, the action is unjustified. He wanted her to think of him by making her so angry that she was denied every chances to understand his action that is actually meant for her benefit due to his deep love and devotion for her. That is plain selfish. If a guy ever do that to me, I would stomp all over his grave because he's been a selfish manipulative jerk till his last breath. 

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6 hours ago, lyserose said:

This is hard to explain.

 

On one hand, the writers put a modern twist to this drama by giving strong female characters in general. Do women during those time conducted themselves the way the female characters are in this drama did? Maybe but definitely not so stretched up. And there goes the noble idiocy plot. So, as a viewer, it's frustrating to switch lenses to justify certain action. I just feel like a lot of justification coming from the fondness towards Yingren as a whole. I can understand that. As a whole, the writings are inconsistent with some characters going OOC and this is really frustrating.

 

 

LBW suffered injustice the most and his char arc been destroyed by this later half. Most of his actions towards HL are in fact out of his char. When he could pulled himself out from holding HL's hand (the scene he rescued her where she revealed her pregnancy) and then glancing at her only from afar before he left for Qin, i so don't understand how he could suddenly simply pursue and be all touchy with her when she's no longer just any man's wife but a queen and now the mother of a king. What a crap load of writings. Now all he does is becoming HL's skirt chaser. 

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To know whether YR's action is acceptable or not, try to imagine it is LBW who did that. If you curse LBW like there is no tomorrow, then you know YR's decision is unjustified. To cause HL to mourn for 5 years and insomnia... That is so selfish. If he truly loves her, he should make peace with her so that she can continue her life happily. He has a son with her. Half of his is in their son. She will remind of him everytime she looks at her son. There is no need to be that extreme.

 

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35 minutes ago, danielassny said:

If a guy ever do that to me, I would stomp all over his grave because he's been a selfish manipulative jerk till his last breath. 

Lol then he achieved his goal by making you mad :) I think this was precisely the point: he made her mad. Like LBW said during their last meeting, until the end, YR wanted to have it all. It's not noble idiocy, it's manipulation. I'm not defending him in any way, just want to clarify the difference between noble idiocy ("I did it for your own good", misguided but arguably with good intentions) vs. manipulation ("I did it so you will have to remember me forever", misguided but with knowingly bad intentions). I don't think anyone here disagrees with you on this point; where we differ is his action makes him an interesting character that I enjoyed watching, whereas his action makes you hate his character, which makes perfect sense as well (I'm pretty sure the writer didn't write him to be sympathetic, they almost present him as is, with all his dark sides.)

 

I love Hao Lan and Princess Ya's last chat, where HL admitted that both of her options in the past were crappy: LBW loves power too much and YR loves the throne/country too much. I appreciate that the writer never tries to make us believe that either of them is "the right one" for her. It's all about timing: LBW was the one for her when she needed a partner for revenge, and YR was the one for her when she needed to survive (and take revenge for LBW). Neither of them was right for her forever, and that's ok (with her and me!)

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27 minutes ago, insertusernamehere said:

Lol then he achieved his goal by making you mad :) I think this was precisely the point: he made her mad. Like LBW said during their last meeting, until the end, YR wanted to have it all. It's not noble idiocy, it's manipulation. I'm not defending him in any way, just want to clarify the difference between noble idiocy ("I did it for your own good", misguided but arguably with good intentions) vs. manipulation ("I did it so you will have to remember me forever", misguided but with knowingly bad intentions). I don't think anyone here disagrees with you on this point; where we differ is his action makes him an interesting character that I enjoyed watching, whereas his action makes you hate his character, which makes perfect sense as well (I'm pretty sure the writer didn't write him to be sympathetic, they almost present him as is, with all his dark sides.)

 

I love Hao Lan and Princess Ya's last chat, where HL admitted that both of her options in the past were crappy: LBW loves power too much and YR loves the throne/country too much. I appreciate that the writer never tries to make us believe that either of them is "the right one" for her. It's all about timing: LBW was the one for her when she needed a partner for revenge, and YR was the one for her when she needed to survive (and take revenge for LBW). Neither of them was right for her forever, and that's ok (with her and me!)

 

@insertusernamehere

 

Just  finished episode50 and will continue!

 

As suspected,Yiren is the most intriguing and complex character...He also knows HaoLan very well ( = better than she knows herself perhaps?? LOL).

 

Since you are ahead ( past episode 62?), does HaoLan figure out what she wants in life? She has what she *thought* she wanted: respect from others, live with dignity, etc. This is a missing link for me throughout the drama so far. 

 

About XiaoChun and HL: their friendship is pure and has endured so much over the years. A rare gem.

 

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Let us not forget that this drama is first and foremost about a competition between YR and LBW (and also HL), as implied in the official synopsis. Who was the mastermind, the one playing the chess vs who was IN the chess? LBW wanted both power and love and decided to use YR to achieve his goals, but things backfired and as it turned out, YR already saw through them and deliberately played their game and let himself be used and the end results were clear. YR ended up getting both absolute power AND the woman he loved (marrying her, having a baby with her and successfully having an important place in HL’s heart despite dying first). LBW told him to not forget in the end who gave him the throne and stole the things he loved the most, but YR reminded LBW that he let it happen himself as this entire thing was his plan all along. Remember LBW had planned to make YR his puppet king once the goal was achieved, but HL already saw through YR on the first meeting and doubted LBW would be successful? Turns out she was right. IMO, it’s not just about winning over LBW when it comes to HL, it’s not about getting the girl through manipulative means, it’s about winning this entire battle of chess. Yes, he was selfish and manipulative, he manipulated people left and right for self-preservation from Zhao to his goals and now everything he’s ever wanted was achieved.  He became king, secured his son for the throne and his wife as Queen Dowager, got rid of their threats and enemies, and died knowing confidently that HL loved him a lot. And IMO that’s what mattered when it comes to his character as a whole. He did not lose. Also interesting to note that during his first meeting with LBW, he was seen playing chess by himself in prison, a foreshadowing? :)

Now, if we include HL in this, I’m pretty sure she is also a winner. As she will end up having both power whilst being alive lol. But let’s wait & see to be sure...

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On 2/17/2019 at 1:02 PM, ForgottenSoulx said:

How is this drama now people were disliking it at the start but did it get better?? 

 

Also is it following history alot or more fiction?? 

 

On 2/17/2019 at 4:07 PM, SailBeneteau said:

 

@therewillbeddl

@lyserose

Has anyone thought about whether the historical accounts of Zhao Ji (aka Hao Lan) are actually correct?? To my knowledge, the historical facts were reported by a court historian (Sima Qian who was alive around 135BC-86BC, much after Qin Shi Huang); it is known that he really hated Qin Shi Huang and wanted to show that his birth was illegitimate. We know now that Sima Qian is/was an unreliable historian on this matter.

 

Why can't we enjoy the creation of Hao Lan's story (circa 2019)? I applaud the creators/producers/directors/actors/team of Legend of Hao Lan for telling a story we can enjoy...

 

My two cents only!

 

the genre "historical drama" should be used as fiction unless noted otherwise because it's not really historically accurate. the general Bai in the drama it's the son but in history it was the original guy not his son who was making all the moves. it's just a fictional work based loosely on this time period. 

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21 hours ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

I mean that is a mix of history and fiction from what i know? instead of exiled LBW is killed right ?? but HL does not get killed , not much of a difference really. Wont he question who his father is based on knowing about this affair? 

 

I could still think its following that route and would end up there. 

 

@ForgottenSoulx what? LBW is killed in real life?? this ruins things 

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@danielassny are you mad? LBW did not scheme his way to the top. LBW literally sacrificed HIS LIFE, HIS WEALTH, HIS PEOPLE to maintain peace. everything he's done is for the better of the people not to abuse his power unlike the villains in this drama. he's trying to gain power to PROTECT. do not smear his name with your baseless lies. you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. 

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2 hours ago, therewillbeddl said:

And IMO that’s what mattered when it comes to his character as a whole. He did not lose. Also interesting to note that during his first meeting with LBW, he was seen playing chess by himself in prison, a foreshadowing:)

@therewillbeddl

 

yes, that chess scene in prison is very memorable.

 

It is ironic that (while in Zhao) LBW used to make fun of HL for regularly playing chess with YR —the master chess player— AND for losing most games (she claimed that she won 1 in 3-5 of the games, but probably b/c YR let her win... teehee). LBW knew YR is an excellent chess player, but he didn’t realize that YR played “the game of life” and “the game of thrones”.

 

To echo the theme:

Dowager Huayang said that, in the palace, it was a “game of survival”.

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1 hour ago, joy joy 1 said:

 

@danielassny are you mad? LBW did not scheme his way to the top. LBW literally sacrificed HIS LIFE, HIS WEALTH, HIS PEOPLE to maintain peace. everything he's done is for the better of the people not to abuse his power unlike the villains in this drama. he's trying to gain power to PROTECT. do not smear his name with your baseless lies. you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. 

What the hell are you talking about? 

 

Hey come on. LBW schemed everything for his main goal that is power. Yes, he has the people at his heart but he wanted power, also for the reason to protect himself, and not all are for the noble reasons (you can like a char but not to turn on a blind eye on his faults). When did I ever mention or implying of him abusing power? He is already a very wealthy merchant when this all started but he needs more than that for survival (look at what happened to his dad) and his personal ambition. And there's nothing wrong with man with ambition. I don't see any problem with that. 

 

And who the hell do you think you are to call me a liar? 

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@therewillbeddl I agree with your points given that I remember what LBW told Haolan in ep 25, he is a royalty. That is his previledge that no matter how well he play his game, LBW could never surpass him because of that previledge (that is ofc unless he is less intelligent royals like the princes of Zhao). LBW ended up outlives him, created his legacy but he is all set for a doom ending, again, because he isn't royalty. No one could be more powerful than the one rightfully sitting on the throne. 

 

And for goodness sake...I am so done with the love triangle. Haolan isn't worth it. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, insertusernamehere said:

Lol then he achieved his goal by making you mad :) I think this was precisely the point: he made her mad. Like LBW said during their last meeting, until the end, YR wanted to have it all. It's not noble idiocy, it's manipulation. I'm not defending him in any way, just want to clarify the difference between noble idiocy ("I did it for your own good", misguided but arguably with good intentions) vs. manipulation ("I did it so you will have to remember me forever", misguided but with knowingly bad intentions). I don't think anyone here disagrees with you on this point; where we differ is his action makes him an interesting character that I enjoyed watching, whereas his action makes you hate his character, which makes perfect sense as well (I'm pretty sure the writer didn't write him to be sympathetic, they almost present him as is, with all his dark sides.)

 

I love Hao Lan and Princess Ya's last chat, where HL admitted that both of her options in the past were crappy: LBW loves power too much and YR loves the throne/country too much. I appreciate that the writer never tries to make us believe that either of them is "the right one" for her. It's all about timing: LBW was the one for her when she needed a partner for revenge, and YR was the one for her when she needed to survive (and take revenge for LBW). Neither of them was right for her forever, and that's ok (with her and me!)

I would say its a mix of both manipulative and noble idiocy. When YR left the note to his son to take care of his mom for him, it was apparent where this writer is going. One is he wanted to have it all out of his selfishness, and second he truly meant for everything he did is for her benefit even at the expense of her hatred. 

 

My problem with HL is that she is too self-righteous and not to mention she fall in love very easily. She got herself into the mess to begin with and expecting to come out shiny and clean. If she didn't fall in love despite associating with those men, she won't get into this much richard simmons. Also, she placed blame on those men instead on herself for letting that happened to her. But again i don't blame her entirely, should she was left undisturbed as the daughter of Censur Li, she would probably marry a good man and life would have been simpler or she may ended up marrying Prince Yao (again, she will encounter another hell). 

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So, Lao Ai is that young guard who followed HL right? Who has some sort of crush to HL right? If so, then the writer didn't really follow the history. 1st, Lao Ai is a male pet while in the drama is not. 2nd, he is a guard while in history, Lao Ai is an eunuch.

Then, it will be not weird if the ending not follow the history to the T. I mean, yes LBW will be exiled since it is a huge event but not necessarily he committed suicide

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3 hours ago, joy joy 1 said:

 

@ForgottenSoulx what? LBW is killed in real life?? this ruins things 

 

pretty sure unless i read the wrong history. 

 

Spoiler

 

n 235 BC, after being implicated in a scandal involving the Queen Dowager Zhao (Ying Zheng's mother) and her illicit lover Lao Ai, Lü Buwei was stripped of his posts and titles and was banished to the remote Shu region in the south of Qin. While in exile, Lü Buwei committed suicide by consuming poison. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lü_Buwei

 

 

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