[Current Mainland WebDrama 2019] The Legend of Hao Lan / Beauty Hao Lan 皓镧传

[SailBeneteau]

27 minutes ago, insertusernamehere said:

Lol then he achieved his goal by making you mad I think this was precisely the point: he made her mad. Like LBW said during their last meeting, until the end, YR wanted to have it all. It's not noble idiocy, it's manipulation. I'm not defending him in any way, just want to clarify the difference between noble idiocy ("I did it for your own good", misguided but arguably with good intentions) vs. manipulation ("I did it so you will have to remember me forever", misguided but with knowingly bad intentions). I don't think anyone here disagrees with you on this point; where we differ is his action makes him an interesting character that I enjoyed watching, whereas his action makes you hate his character, which makes perfect sense as well (I'm pretty sure the writer didn't write him to be sympathetic, they almost present him as is, with all his dark sides.)

 

I love Hao Lan and Princess Ya's last chat, where HL admitted that both of her options in the past were crappy: LBW loves power too much and YR loves the throne/country too much. I appreciate that the writer never tries to make us believe that either of them is "the right one" for her. It's all about timing: LBW was the one for her when she needed a partner for revenge, and YR was the one for her when she needed to survive (and take revenge for LBW). Neither of them was right for her forever, and that's ok (with her and me!)

 

@insertusernamehere

 

Just  finished episode50 and will continue!

 

As suspected，Yiren is the most intriguing and complex character...He also knows HaoLan very well ( = better than she knows herself perhaps?? LOL).

 

Since you are ahead ( past episode 62?), does HaoLan figure out what she wants in life? She has what she *thought* she wanted: respect from others, live with dignity, etc. This is a missing link for me throughout the drama so far. 

 

About XiaoChun and HL: their friendship is pure and has endured so much over the years. A rare gem.

 

[therewillbeddl]

Let us not forget that this drama is first and foremost about a competition between YR and LBW (and also HL), as implied in the official synopsis. Who was the mastermind, the one playing the chess vs who was IN the chess? LBW wanted both power and love and decided to use YR to achieve his goals, but things backfired and as it turned out, YR already saw through them and deliberately played their game and let himself be used and the end results were clear. YR ended up getting both absolute power AND the woman he loved (marrying her, having a baby with her and successfully having an important place in HL’s heart despite dying first). LBW told him to not forget in the end who gave him the throne and stole the things he loved the most, but YR reminded LBW that he let it happen himself as this entire thing was his plan all along. Remember LBW had planned to make YR his puppet king once the goal was achieved, but HL already saw through YR on the first meeting and doubted LBW would be successful? Turns out she was right. IMO, it’s not just about winning over LBW when it comes to HL, it’s not about getting the girl through manipulative means, it’s about winning this entire battle of chess. Yes, he was selfish and manipulative, he manipulated people left and right for self-preservation from Zhao to his goals and now everything he’s ever wanted was achieved.  He became king, secured his son for the throne and his wife as Queen Dowager, got rid of their threats and enemies, and died knowing confidently that HL loved him a lot. And IMO that’s what mattered when it comes to his character as a whole. He did not lose. Also interesting to note that during his first meeting with LBW, he was seen playing chess by himself in prison, a foreshadowing? 

Now, if we include HL in this, I’m pretty sure she is also a winner. As she will end up having both power whilst being alive lol. But let’s wait & see to be sure...

[joy joy 1]

On 2/17/2019 at 1:02 PM, ForgottenSoulx said:

How is this drama now people were disliking it at the start but did it get better?? 

 

Also is it following history alot or more fiction?? 

 

On 2/17/2019 at 4:07 PM, SailBeneteau said:

 

@therewillbeddl

@lyserose

Has anyone thought about whether the historical accounts of Zhao Ji (aka Hao Lan) are actually correct?? To my knowledge, the historical facts were reported by a court historian (Sima Qian who was alive around 135BC-86BC, much after Qin Shi Huang); it is known that he really hated Qin Shi Huang and wanted to show that his birth was illegitimate. We know now that Sima Qian is/was an unreliable historian on this matter.

 

Why can't we enjoy the creation of Hao Lan's story (circa 2019)? I applaud the creators/producers/directors/actors/team of Legend of Hao Lan for telling a story we can enjoy...

 

My two cents only!

 

the genre "historical drama" should be used as fiction unless noted otherwise because it's not really historically accurate. the general Bai in the drama it's the son but in history it was the original guy not his son who was making all the moves. it's just a fictional work based loosely on this time period. 

[joy joy 1]

21 hours ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

I mean that is a mix of history and fiction from what i know? instead of exiled LBW is killed right ?? but HL does not get killed , not much of a difference really. Wont he question who his father is based on knowing about this affair? 

 

I could still think its following that route and would end up there. 

 

@ForgottenSoulx what? LBW is killed in real life?? this ruins things 

[joy joy 1]

 

@danielassny are you mad? LBW did not scheme his way to the top. LBW literally sacrificed HIS LIFE, HIS WEALTH, HIS PEOPLE to maintain peace. everything he's done is for the better of the people not to abuse his power unlike the villains in this drama. he's trying to gain power to PROTECT. do not smear his name with your baseless lies. you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. 

[SailBeneteau]

2 hours ago, therewillbeddl said:

And IMO that’s what mattered when it comes to his character as a whole. He did not lose. Also interesting to note that during his first meeting with LBW, he was seen playing chess by himself in prison, a foreshadowing? 

@therewillbeddl

 

yes, that chess scene in prison is very memorable.

 

It is ironic that (while in Zhao) LBW used to make fun of HL for regularly playing chess with YR —the master chess player— AND for losing most games (she claimed that she won 1 in 3-5 of the games, but probably b/c YR let her win... teehee). LBW knew YR is an excellent chess player, but he didn’t realize that YR played “the game of life” and “the game of thrones”.

 

To echo the theme:

Dowager Huayang said that, in the palace, it was a “game of survival”.

[danielassny]

1 hour ago, joy joy 1 said:

 

@danielassny are you mad? LBW did not scheme his way to the top. LBW literally sacrificed HIS LIFE, HIS WEALTH, HIS PEOPLE to maintain peace. everything he's done is for the better of the people not to abuse his power unlike the villains in this drama. he's trying to gain power to PROTECT. do not smear his name with your baseless lies. you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. 

What the hell are you talking about? 

 

Hey come on. LBW schemed everything for his main goal that is power. Yes, he has the people at his heart but he wanted power, also for the reason to protect himself, and not all are for the noble reasons (you can like a char but not to turn on a blind eye on his faults). When did I ever mention or implying of him abusing power? He is already a very wealthy merchant when this all started but he needs more than that for survival (look at what happened to his dad) and his personal ambition. And there's nothing wrong with man with ambition. I don't see any problem with that. 

 

And who the hell do you think you are to call me a liar? 

[danielassny]

@therewillbeddl I agree with your points given that I remember what LBW told Haolan in ep 25, he is a royalty. That is his previledge that no matter how well he play his game, LBW could never surpass him because of that previledge (that is ofc unless he is less intelligent royals like the princes of Zhao). LBW ended up outlives him, created his legacy but he is all set for a doom ending, again, because he isn't royalty. No one could be more powerful than the one rightfully sitting on the throne. 

 

And for goodness sake...I am so done with the love triangle. Haolan isn't worth it. 

 

 

[danielassny]

6 hours ago, insertusernamehere said:

Lol then he achieved his goal by making you mad I think this was precisely the point: he made her mad. Like LBW said during their last meeting, until the end, YR wanted to have it all. It's not noble idiocy, it's manipulation. I'm not defending him in any way, just want to clarify the difference between noble idiocy ("I did it for your own good", misguided but arguably with good intentions) vs. manipulation ("I did it so you will have to remember me forever", misguided but with knowingly bad intentions). I don't think anyone here disagrees with you on this point; where we differ is his action makes him an interesting character that I enjoyed watching, whereas his action makes you hate his character, which makes perfect sense as well (I'm pretty sure the writer didn't write him to be sympathetic, they almost present him as is, with all his dark sides.)

 

I love Hao Lan and Princess Ya's last chat, where HL admitted that both of her options in the past were crappy: LBW loves power too much and YR loves the throne/country too much. I appreciate that the writer never tries to make us believe that either of them is "the right one" for her. It's all about timing: LBW was the one for her when she needed a partner for revenge, and YR was the one for her when she needed to survive (and take revenge for LBW). Neither of them was right for her forever, and that's ok (with her and me!)

I would say its a mix of both manipulative and noble idiocy. When YR left the note to his son to take care of his mom for him, it was apparent where this writer is going. One is he wanted to have it all out of his selfishness, and second he truly meant for everything he did is for her benefit even at the expense of her hatred. 

 

My problem with HL is that she is too self-righteous and not to mention she fall in love very easily. She got herself into the mess to begin with and expecting to come out shiny and clean. If she didn't fall in love despite associating with those men, she won't get into this much richard simmons. Also, she placed blame on those men instead on herself for letting that happened to her. But again i don't blame her entirely, should she was left undisturbed as the daughter of Censur Li, she would probably marry a good man and life would have been simpler or she may ended up marrying Prince Yao (again, she will encounter another hell). 

[kyoko22]

So, Lao Ai is that young guard who followed HL right? Who has some sort of crush to HL right? If so, then the writer didn't really follow the history. 1st, Lao Ai is a male pet while in the drama is not. 2nd, he is a guard while in history, Lao Ai is an eunuch.

Then, it will be not weird if the ending not follow the history to the T. I mean, yes LBW will be exiled since it is a huge event but not necessarily he committed suicide

[ForgottenSoulx]

3 hours ago, joy joy 1 said:

 

@ForgottenSoulx what? LBW is killed in real life?? this ruins things 

 

pretty sure unless i read the wrong history. 

 

Spoiler

 

n 235 BC, after being implicated in a scandal involving the Queen Dowager Zhao (Ying Zheng's mother) and her illicit lover Lao Ai, Lü Buwei was stripped of his posts and titles and was banished to the remote Shu region in the south of Qin. While in exile, Lü Buwei committed suicide by consuming poison. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lü_Buwei

 

 

[lyserose]

@joy joy 1 Please be respectful of others and keep the discussion here in peace. There's no one spreading lies here. Each and every one of us is entitled to our own opinion and all depends on one's understanding and interpretation.

 

@kyoko22 From the moment HL was stolen instead of given away, it's already veered away from history. Due to the popularity of Yanxi and ofc the couple of NY-WJY, a happy ending could be expected. But I am sorry that I am signing out of this drama now despite only having 3eps left to go. This show is too dissapointing and for the sake of preserving whatever that are good and the merits from Yanxi as well as QL-WYL couple, I decided to stop watching. 

 

@danielassny I pretty much agree with most of your points. Thanks for wording them better than I think I ever could. I will just settle for SKY Castle, The Fiery Priest and Romance Is A Bonus Book for now. 

 

Peace out. 

 

 

[SailBeneteau]

@peanutbutterjellytime

@therewillbeddl

@insertusernamehere

 

Just finished Episode 50! Will catch up with you all  Thanks for your patience.

 

Can we continue to discuss QiongHua vs. Princess Ya?

 

1) A memorable thing about QiongHua is her singing. When Zhao and Qin were in a state of war (Ep 26/27?), she would sing at night. One time XiaoChun commented on her singing (while HL was admiring QiongHua's singing) that she --a princess from Han--was the only person in Zhao who could sing when Qin/Zhao engaged in war. QiongHuang understood that, as a princess, she had to be gifted to the King of Zhao as a peace gesture. And, QiongHua remained a patriot in her own way!  Another element of her singing was that her song was sweet but melancholy and, before she died, she explained to HaoLan that she missed her home/Han and brother (= foreshadowing her brother's character in Episode 50).

 

2) Another memorable thing about QiongHua was her comment to HaoLan: (just to paraphrase) "I would rather be a wildflower found in the mountains than become a peony in the palace garden." She was a free spirit.

 

3) In comparison, Princess Ya has/had no sense of her duty to Zhao and its citizens!

The Queen of Zhao warned her really early on that the marriage of a princess is a matter of the state (and not of personal preference alone). HaoLan fiercely criticized her at some point earlier also...(right? episode?) Who else?

 

4) To pursue "her so-called love for YR", princess Ya actually gave up everything (country, family, birth rights, etc) including her own sense of self. And eventually her emotions drove her to such an intense level of hatred that it probably became insanity....

 

From what happened in Episode 50, she can't possibly have a good ending...[Will she ever get punished for stealing someone else's life and identity to come to enter Qin?]

 

 

[therewillbeddl]

@SailBeneteau agree with your observations especially about Han Qionghua, I think she has one of the most pleasantly memorable scenes in the drama. As for Princess Ya, she is a lost cause. I feel like she might be unhinged. She is so mentally deranged that she cannot see how toxic her one sided “love” for YR is, despite numerous instances where she has suffered the consequences, where she should have learned her lesson. Everyone else tried to reason with her, she has been giving many chances, but she sacrificed everything precious to her (her country, her family, her dignity, her morals, her self) for the sake of something she knows damn well will never come true. 

[joy joy 1]

@danielassny You clearly said: "LBW with how he schemed his way to the top and even assisted in installing an impossible king could just be crushed because of this silly kindergarten level writings" 

 

He didn't scheme for power to be a tyrant over the commoners he did it for self protection didn't you watch where his life was from and how his father and grandfather couldn't save him or be saved from death even though they were wrongly accused by more powerful officials despite having a lot of wealth they couldn't buy their safety. Power to use for good is different from power to use for bad. There's a reason benevolent leaders are looked upon and tyrants are not. LBW wanted power to self protect his family himself included that's not a sin. You suffer from a self righteous attitude. How do you even put LBW in the same category as those who crave power and did so by massacring innocents? Pick and choose your critiques wisely or else I will react unkindly towards your opinions because your opinions doesn't make any moral sense   

[joy joy 1]

@lyserose  I didn't reply to you. And someone's "opinions" deserve to be called out if they don't make any sense. To equate LBW obtaining power as a means to live and self preservation as the same level of people who murder innocents or massacre millions to gain power is actually morally unethical and it's a lie to me. There's nothing you can say that will change my mind. There's no logic you can say to argue other than "opinions vary." There are wrong opinions just like people who think the earth is flat are wrong. Bye now 

[joy joy 1]

On 2/18/2019 at 10:25 AM, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

I mean that is a mix of history and fiction from what i know? instead of exiled LBW is killed right ?? but HL does not get killed , not much of a difference really. Wont he question who his father is based on knowing about this affair? 

 

I could still think its following that route and would end up there. 

 

 

I was really hoping they wouldn't kill LBW. Since YR died and now LBW dies too. Very tragic like all historical dramas are. They all end in tragedy. 

[joy joy 1]

8 hours ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

pretty sure unless i read the wrong history. 

 

  Hide contents

 

n 235 BC, after being implicated in a scandal involving the Queen Dowager Zhao (Ying Zheng's mother) and her illicit lover Lao Ai, Lü Buwei was stripped of his posts and titles and was banished to the remote Shu region in the south of Qin. While in exile, Lü Buwei committed suicide by consuming poison. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lü_Buwei

 

 

thanks for the link. omg everyone dies this is so sad 

[believed]

Ok... what.

[danielassny]

@joy joy 1 It's because you interpreted it wrongly. LBW schemed his way from a lowly merchant at Zhao to the man who holds the highest power in Qin after the King. He did installed an impossible king. I never said or implied that he abused power or whatever richard simmons you accused me off. When I mentioned he schemed his way, I was referring to how he planned and manipulated every chances and getting rid of every obstacles to get to where he is. And please read carefully before you go calling out on other's opinion... I was angry with the writings that basically crushed all the merits of LBW when they made him climbed onto Haolan's bed after she became a widowed queen. He would automatically be branded as disrespectful, a sexual harrasser and so on and that all the goods that he did would be wiped out because of this indecent portrayal due to silly writers who think that involuntary skinship is cute and romantic and milking too much from existing fondness of this Yanxi couple. So tell me, which part you don't understand?

 

@lyserose Thanks sis. Some people just couldn't grasp the point and went mad unnecessarily. Understand your leaving (I should have done so long time ago) but hope to see you again in another drama forum. I'm watching Romance Supplement too but don't feel there's anything to discuss about it. Try "Haechi", it's promising.