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[Drama 2019] Love in Sadness, 슬플 때 사랑한다

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The importance of camera position

 

Now let’s take a closer look at the camera position in Love In Sadness. Striking is that the director often uses a duplication of a character. This special effect was first used with YMR.

Spoiler

 

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By duplicating Yoon Ma Ri, the director wanted to convey an important message. Notice that the second version is fading away, she is disappearing. And this is no coincidence. YMR is about to lose herself, her soul by remaining by her husband's side. She is not even allowed to choose her own clothes. She lives trapped in a cage hence the window with the bare reflects her actual position: she is a prisoner. She is not even allowed to paint outdoors which explains why her latest painting looks so gloomy and depressing. She can no longer paint as she has run out of energy and inspiration. So this explains why the second YMR is disappearing, she is about to lose her own identity and her soul. 

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SJW in the episode 13

The director had used the same special effect with SJW in an earlier episode so this is the second time that SJW is shown twice. Here, SJW is eating alone in his dining room. YMR wants to keep her distance from him until he knows how to face YMR. She will wait for him until he will solely think of her with this face. This taking should be perceived that way: the old SJW is slowly disappearing, the man who loved WHK but was hurt by her. As time passes on, SJW starts missing YMR more and more. This taking reinforces the loneliness of the surgeon but also his need for YMR’s presence. In this scene, there is no dialogue at all however the director is trying to convey SJW’s inner thoughts and feelings. Just like in the other scene mentioned above, the camera is placed behind a glass so that the viewer can feel that SJW has been living in a prison that he created himself.

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KIW with his gun: episode 14
 
Spoiler

 

image-8.png?w=660
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Before I start analyzing this scene, it is important to put this scene in the context. Finally KIW has been able to locate YMR’s mother. He even heard that YMR had been there just before his arrival and he even missed her for a few minutes. Moreover, he has realized the connection between YMR and the surgeon SJW because YMR’s mother mentioned the presence of her son-in-law. KIW is upset and even jealous that YMR seems to have replaced him with another man, he already suspects the doctor. We shouldn’t forget that KIW had a nightmare a few nights ago (episode 13), where he dreamt, he was running after his bride YMR, only to witness the appearance of another groom. When he is finally able to reach YMR, he identifies the groom as SJW and is surprised to discover that the bride running away was WHK which confused him.

 
Spoiler

 

image-11.png?w=660
KIW’s nightmare: he has already perceived the truth unconsciously: YMR has WHK’s face.
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SJW with YMR: they are already in love
image-13.png?w=660
KIW is sure that the bride running away from him is YMR
image-14.png?w=660
KIW is shocked to see WHK’s face.

 

 

 

So now our antihero KIW knows that there is a man around YMR therefore KIW returns home, totally upset and enraged. Even YMR’s mother dared to call the other man her son-in-law. KIW has the impression that his worst nightmare has become true. However, he still doesn’t know that YMR has WHK’s face. Just like in the other duplication scenes, the camera is put behind the window, we can also see the frame reinforcing the idea that KIW lives in his own world, a prison he has created himself. So after his arrival, he takes the gun from the dresser. If you look at the first picture of this scene, KIW is seen twice. However, it changes a little because the two pictures reveals that the duplication is incomplete. It was as if there were three KIW standing, yet the two other reflections are partially visible. This mirrors his own inner conflict: will he use the gun or not? Notice that his gaze is always directed at the gun. So far, KIW has never revealed this side of him in front of other people. Only YMR could see this terrible and dangerous side. But his rage and violence is so huge that at the end, he is resolved to use the gun.

image-7.png?w=660
The final taking of the same scene: KIW with his gun

That’s why the viewer sees this duplication at the end. KIW is determined to use violence in order to catch his wife. To me, the second reflection represents the monster in him which is now visible. The snake that has been hiding behind his charisma and his mysterious aura is now shown to the world. He doesn’t care anymore about his reputation. This explains why KIW wears his leather jacket and threatens HSH and later JHR. He is even more vicious with JHR because he resents her for her manipulation and her arrogance.

Spoiler

image-15.png?w=660

This is when he aims his gun at JHR’s face

Unlike in the former taking, KIW is now aiming his gun at a real person, while before he was just aiming at the window. To conclude, the effect of duplication is often used by this director in order to let the viewers perceive what the characters are thinking and feeling but also to reflect their own situation. All of them are living in a cage, caught by fear and by their own past and emotions. The only difference is that YMR’s cage was not self-created in opposition to SJW and KIW.

@zenya22 @MidnightRain @lolly84 @avondale16 @ktcjdrama @tiMadam @lu09

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Another thing that stood out for me is the reaction of KIW's father to Ma Ri posing as HK meeting KIW in his office. At the lobby of the GunHwa Group's building one of the employees walking with Chairman Kang recognized HK/Ma Ri and stopped her adressing her as the Director of the Kyung Gallery and the Chairman turned around to look at Mari and shook her hands. MR said that she was grateful that IW has rated their gallery highly by making a contract with their gallery. The chairman looked at MR saying "your gallery is just one small store, so I am wondering what attracted my son to your gallery." By then IW who was notified that his father was talking to MR at the lobby, ran down to grab Ma Ri's hand and instinctively put her behind him as if protecting her from his father which made the father look at IW surprised. As Ma Ri followed IW to the elevator, the father stared at them with an expression of curiosity. The times that KIW actively tangled or fought against his father was when he was shielding MR from his father's physical or verbal attacks or defending his mother "don't speak about my mother" from his father's disparagement of his mother. IW's reactions I think made the father more curious. I wonder what his father will do when he finds out that the woman HK is MR? 

 

This drama differs from the original as the original focused on the drama of the main characters but this drama included families such as the chaebol family of IW, the mom of JW, MR's mom and friends and business partners. Since the article posted by @juli®  says that IW will know true love I wonder what his ending will be. I am hoping that he will tell his father to shove his company up his behind and leave. The picture that Ha gave to JW of IW and his mom showed the mother holding the little boy protectively and the boy leaning on his mother's side. Both their faces sullen and the boy's face showed some fear and dependency/trust on the mother's arm holding him protectively. I hope that through therapy he will see his mother not through the eyes of his father but through the eyes of the little boy who was loved by the mother. Maybe he will remember the times when he was alone with mom, what mom taught him about art, playing games with mom, reading books with mom or other caring things that a mom would do for her child. That he was a child and what happened to mom because of his dad was not his fault that he could not protect mom and he was not responsible for what happened to mom. Maybe he finds out what he really wants to do and leave his father's abusive house and influence. 

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5 hours ago, zenya22 said:

Another thing that stood out for me is the reaction of KIW's father to Ma Ri posing as HK meeting KIW in his office. At the lobby of the GunHwa Group's building one of the employees walking with Chairman Kang recognized HK/Ma Ri and stopped her adressing her as the Director of the Kyung Gallery and the Chairman turned around to look at Mari and shook her hands. MR said that she was grateful that IW has rated their gallery highly by making a contract with their gallery. The chairman looked at MR saying "your gallery is just one small store, so I am wondering what attracted my son to your gallery." By then IW who was notified that his father was talking to MR at the lobby, ran down to grab Ma Ri's hand and instinctively put her behind him as if protecting her from his father which made the father look at IW surprised. As Ma Ri followed IW to the elevator, the father stared at them with an expression of curiosity. The times that KIW actively tangled or fought against his father was when he was shielding MR from his father's physical or verbal attacks or defending his mother "don't speak about my mother" from his father's disparagement of his mother. IW's reactions I think made the father more curious. I wonder what his father will do when he finds out that the woman HK is MR? 

 

This drama differs from the original as the original focused on the drama of the main characters but this drama included families such as the chaebol family of IW, the mom of JW, MR's mom and friends and business partners. Since the article posted by @juli®  says that IW will know true love I wonder what his ending will be. I am hoping that he will tell his father to shove his company up his behind and leave. The picture that Ha gave to JW of IW and his mom showed the mother holding the little boy protectively and the boy leaning on his mother's side. Both their faces sullen and the boy's face showed some fear and dependency/trust on the mother's arm holding him protectively. I hope that through therapy he will see his mother not through the eyes of his father but through the eyes of the little boy who was loved by the mother. Maybe he will remember the times when he was alone with mom, what mom taught him about art, playing games with mom, reading books with mom or other caring things that a mom would do for her child. That he was a child and what happened to mom because of his dad was not his fault that he could not protect mom and he was not responsible for what happened to mom. Maybe he finds out what he really wants to do and leave his father's abusive house and influence. 

@zenya22 I have to admit that I loved what he did and even I was surprised too, since for everyone, she is the WHK and not the YMR.

 

I thought it was JHR that would show him true love, but I'm wrong.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

The importance of camera position

 

Now let’s take a closer look at the camera position in Love In Sadness. Striking is that the director often uses a duplication of a character. This special effect was first used with YMR.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

By duplicating Yoon Ma Ri, the director wanted to convey an important message. Notice that the second version is fading away, she is disappearing. And this is no coincidence. YMR is about to lose herself, her soul by remaining by her husband's side. She is not even allowed to choose her own clothes. She lives trapped in a cage hence the window with the bare reflects her actual position: she is a prisoner. She is not even allowed to paint outdoors which explains why her latest painting looks so gloomy and depressing. She can no longer paint as she has run out of energy and inspiration. So this explains why the second YMR is disappearing, she is about to lose her own identity and her soul. 

 
 SJW in the episode 13

The director had used the same special effect with SJW in an earlier episode so this is the second time that SJW is shown twice. Here, SJW is eating alone in his dining room. YMR wants to keep her distance from him until he knows how to face YMR. She will wait for him until he will solely think of her with this face. This taking should be perceived that way: the old SJW is slowly disappearing, the man who loved WHK but was hurt by her. As time passes on, SJW starts missing YMR more and more. This taking reinforces the loneliness of the surgeon but also his need for YMR’s presence. In this scene, there is no dialogue at all however the director is trying to convey SJW’s inner thoughts and feelings. Just like in the other scene mentioned above, the camera is placed behind a glass so that the viewer can feel that SJW has been living in a prison that he created himself.

 

 KIW with his gun: episode 14  

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

Before I start analyzing this scene, it is important to put this scene in the context. Finally KIW has been able to locate YMR’s mother. He even heard that YMR had been there just before his arrival and he even missed her for a few minutes. Moreover, he has realized the connection between YMR and the surgeon SJW because YMR’s mother mentioned the presence of her son-in-law. KIW is upset and even jealous that YMR seems to have replaced him with another man, he already suspects the doctor. We shouldn’t forget that KIW had a nightmare a few nights ago (episode 13), where he dreamt, he was running after his bride YMR, only to witness the appearance of another groom. When he is finally able to reach YMR, he identifies the groom as SJW and is surprised to discover that the bride running away was WHK which confused him.

 
  Reveal hidden contents

 

 KIW’s nightmare: he has already perceived the truth unconsciously: YMR has WHK’s face.
 SJW with YMR: they are already in love
 KIW is sure that the bride running away from him is YMR
 KIW is shocked to see WHK’s face.

 

 

 

So now our antihero KIW knows that there is a man around YMR therefore KIW returns home, totally upset and enraged. Even YMR’s mother dared to call the other man her son-in-law. KIW has the impression that his worst nightmare has become true. However, he still doesn’t know that YMR has WHK’s face. Just like in the other duplication scenes, the camera is put behind the window, we can also see the frame reinforcing the idea that KIW lives in his own world, a prison he has created himself. So after his arrival, he takes the gun from the dresser. If you look at the first picture of this scene, KIW is seen twice. However, it changes a little because the two pictures reveals that the duplication is incomplete. It was as if there were three KIW standing, yet the two other reflections are partially visible. This mirrors his own inner conflict: will he use the gun or not? Notice that his gaze is always directed at the gun. So far, KIW has never revealed this side of him in front of other people. Only YMR could see this terrible and dangerous side. But his rage and violence is so huge that at the end, he is resolved to use the gun.

 The final taking of the same scene: KIW with his gun

That’s why the viewer sees this duplication at the end. KIW is determined to use violence in order to catch his wife. To me, the second reflection represents the monster in him which is now visible. The snake that has been hiding behind his charisma and his mysterious aura is now shown to the world. He doesn’t care anymore about his reputation. This explains why KIW wears his leather jacket and threatens HSH and later JHR. He is even more vicious with JHR because he resents her for her manipulation and her arrogance.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

This is when he aims his gun at JHR’s face

Unlike in the former taking, KIW is now aiming his gun at a real person, while before he was just aiming at the window. To conclude, the effect of duplication is often used by this director in order to let the viewers perceive what the characters are thinking and feeling but also to reflect their own situation. All of them are living in a cage, caught by fear and by their own past and emotions. The only difference is that YMR’s cage was not self-created in opposition to SJW and KIW.

@zenya22 @MidnightRain @lolly84 @avondale16 @ktcjdrama @tiMadam @lu09

Very accurate your review :thumbsup:

Edited by bebebisous33
don't quote videos, gifs and pictures. Remove these next time please
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Can anyone tell me why KIW cries when he hits in YMR? It doesn't make sense because if he doesn't want to hit her, don't beat her, Christ! And if he wants to hit her, then why all this emotion? I swear I try to understand, but it's difficult to me.  

 

Spoiler

 

^^^ He cheated me right, I was already cursing him for being so weak! :joy:

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Anyone knows the Name of the English song broadcasted at the end of episode 13 - I just can hear - somehow .... thanks 

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17 minutes ago, Lemonlulu888 said:

Anyone knows the Name of the English song broadcasted at the end of episode 13 - I just can hear - somehow .... thanks 

"Loving you in every ways", I think. 

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She (YMR) is not even allowed to paint outdoors which explains why her latest painting looks so gloomy and depressing

 

@bebebisous33 Reading your review again, now I remembered: if the KIW knows so much paintings, how did he not recognize the mood of the YMR? He saw Cistus's painting! Did not he realize what was about to happen? And then he saw that the YMR pricked his hair in the bathroom!

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On 4/7/2019 at 12:40 PM, bebebisous33 said:

To sum up, the interpretation of a painting is also influenced by the beholder's mentality. Sure, if we know more about the painter, the beholder is able to understand the emotions and the message of the creator, yet the beholder is free to interpret the picture differently, I mean, to add a different meaning/message. In the end, there is no right or wrong, by analyzing a picture.

I agree, it also depends on what the beholder is beholding and giving more meaning at the time of interpretation which is why there is no wrong or right in analysis of a picture. The mind is changing or the state of mind changes all the time therefore depending on what state of mind of the character the beholder is associating with the painting, that association will influence the beholder's interpretation, from my perspective. 

 

For example: 

On 4/7/2019 at 4:52 PM, tiMadam said:

 

@bebebisous33 loved the analysis of "Love in Sadness" and @zenya22  love the analysis of the painting as well..IW may also view the painting that YMR is his savior so even if his in the shipwrecked she will save him from drowning. 

Here KIW who has the most volatile state of mind, does depend on Ma Ri "loving him or being with him" as he tells Ma Ri all the time that he can't live without Ma Ri that she can have anything she wants in the world but just stay by his side. Yet, he does not understand that what Ma Ri wants more than anything in the world is to be free to be herself. 

 

But he also sees Ma Ri as dependent on him. That she needs his protection from the world. There is that one scene when he realized that Ma Ri is alive. He is in his office looking out the window and there was a storm raging outside. He says"Mari...It is raining out there, is she dry, she must be very cold and terrified, where are you". During the dinner arranged by HR to celebrate  the contract IW tells MR/HK that his wife is a fragile and needs protection. He sees the world as a dangerous place for MR that only being with him can make her safe. 

 

So, both interpretations are essentially correct depending on which state of mind of KIW we associate the painting with. As you said there is no right or wrong. Same for MR's point of view. 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, zenya22 said:

I agree, it also depends on what the beholder is beholding and giving more meaning at the time of interpretation which is why there is no wrong or right in analysis of a picture. The mind is changing or the state of mind changes all the time therefore depending on what state of mind of the character the beholder is associating with the painting, that association will influence the beholder's interpretation, from my perspective. 

 

For example: 

Here KIW who has the most volatile state of mind, does depend on Ma Ri "loving him or being with him" as he tells Ma Ri all the time that he can't live without Ma Ri that she can have anything she wants in the world but just stay by his side. Yet, he does not understand that what Ma Ri wants more than anything in the world is to be free to be herself. 

 

But he also sees Ma Ri as dependent on him. That she needs his protection from the world. There is that one scene when he realized that Ma Ri is alive. He is in his office looking out the window and there was a storm raging outside. He says"Mari...It is raining out there, is she dry, she must be very cold and terrified, where are you". During the dinner arranged by HR to celebrate  the contract IW tells MR/HK that his wife is a fragile and needs protection. He sees the world as a dangerous place for MR that only being with him can make her safe. 

 

So, both interpretations are essentially correct depending on which state of mind of KIW we associate the painting with. As you said there is no right or wrong. Same for MR's point of view. 

 

 

@zenya22From this perspective, the weak is KIW. He depends on the YMR to live. Even at work he cannot concentrate, so he's getting pressure from his father. In fact, he's not like his father, he's much more fragile than him.  His father fared very well for his wife's death, but if it were the other way round, would he, KIW, overcome YMR's death?

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You know, the perfect ending for me would be total tragedy for our adorable three characters. The three would die. SJW by the hands of a enraged and jealous KIW. Seeing SJW dead and also to avoid going back to her husband,  YMR kills herself. And finally, KIW seeing YMR dead, feeling guilty for not having managed to protect her and reliving what happened to his mother, which he thinks was his fault, he kills himself.

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On 4/9/2019 at 2:58 PM, juli® said:

@zenya22From this perspective, the weak is KIW. He depends on the YMR to live. Even at work he cannot concentrate, so he's getting pressure from his father. In fact, he's not like his father, he's much more fragile than him.  His father fared very well for his wife's death, but if it were the other way round, would he, KIW, overcome YMR's death?

Nahhhhhh. His father did not fare well, he is a tyrant who turned his abuse of his dead wife to his son. He removed all the pictures and everythng that reminded him of his dead wife and then turned his unwanted attention on the son. He physically abused the son and and turned the son into himself. Kang Il Kook the father at present can't physically abuse IW and he is very aware of that so he attacks him, through putting down or verbally attacking IW's mother or his wife, Ma Ri. Yet KIW is the son that Kang Il Kook is most attached to. In Wook is the son he takes everywhere even when doing his favorite sports hunting and shooting and refers to him "you are indeed my son". He brought IW into his company and gave him the position of president then monitors him closely. He knows exactly what is happening in this son's life and then throws the son's weakness in his face and the verbal criticisms always end up referencing the mother. Kang IL Kook hardly notices the other son except when that son inadvertently crosses the rules of the father as in being 1 minute late for breakfast and angers Kang Il Kook.  However, the father wants IW's attention and obeisance towards him everytime and now that he can't physically abuse him, the father threatens to disown or disinherit KIW every chance he gets. In the morning when everyone including the help are gathered outside to send the Kang Il Kook off to work, he makes a bee line for IW not even noticing anyone else, just to verbally disparage the son about the mother and Ma Ri then threatens to disown IW. Yet it is surprising that there is one thing that Kang Il Kook never criticized his son about and allowed IW to indulge in his love of art. He knew about all the art work that IW was buying yet he has not stopped the son. In fact he knew about IW's art collection because the father's secretary reports this to him. I think that IW's mom was an artist or an art buff and that was what attracted the Kang Il Kook to the mother. Like son, like father. (am just conjecturing). It is surprising that the father did not criticize his son even once about being art fan. 

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6 hours ago, zenya22 said:

Nahhhhhh. His father did not fare well, he is a tyrant who turned his abuse of his dead wife to his son. He removed all the pictures and everythng that reminded him of his dead wife and then turned his unwanted attention on the son. He physically abused the son and and turned the son into himself. Kang Il Kook the father at present can't physically abuse IW and he is very aware of that so he attacks him, through putting down or verbally attacking IW's mother or his wife, Ma Ri. Yet KIW is the son that Kang Il Kook is most attached to. In Wook is the son he takes everywhere even when doing his favorite sports hunting and shooting and refers to him "you are indeed my son". He brought IW into his company and gave him the position of president then monitors him closely. He knows exactly what is happening in this son's life and then throws the son's weakness in his face and the verbal criticisms always end up referencing the mother. Kang IL Kook hardly notices the other son except when that son inadvertently crosses the rules of the father as in being 1 minute late for breakfast and angers Kang Il Kook.  However, the father wants IW's attention and obeisance towards him everytime and now that he can't physically abuse him, the father threatens to disown or disinherit KIW every chance he gets. In the morning when everyone including the help are gathered outside to send the Kang Il Kook off to work, he makes a bee line for IW not even noticing anyone else, just to verbally disparage the son about the mother and Ma Ri then threatens to disown IW. Yet it is surprising that there is one thing that Kang Il Kook never criticized his son about and allowed IW to indulge in his love of art. He knew about all the art work that IW was buying yet he has not stopped the son. In fact he knew about IW's art collection because the father's secretary reports this to him. I think that IW's mom was an artist or an art buff and that was what attracted the Kang Il Kook to the mother. Like son, like father. (am just conjecturing). It is surprising that the father did not criticize his son even once about being art fan. 

@zenya22I was especially impressed how KIW protected the supposed WHK instinctively as soon as he knew she was facing his father at the lobby. And it is true, KIG never criticized his son for his taste for art, he only became more attentive when KIW decided to make a contract with Kyung Art Gallery, which corroborates my theory that KIW is extremely dependent on YMR and, therefore, for not being able to stay reasonable away from it, I consider it weaker even than the YMR itself. After all, it was a big deal! I would still like to know why YMR didn't have children with KIW since they have been married for 5 years! Another thing the show doesn't make clear: when KIW started beating YMR? They must have had a time of happiness marriage before the violence began. And in this time of happiness, why didn't she get pregnant? Does Kang Il-Gook's claim make sense, after all, what is she doing to avoid babies? Did she take contraception without KIW knowing? Did they, instead, even have an intimate relationship? Or did KIW himself know about the contraceptive, but did he accept it because himself didn't want children? This wasn't yet clear in the drama. How did she avoid babies? Any guess? Someone? @bebebisous33 

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16 hours ago, juli® said:

was especially impressed how KIW protected the supposed WHK instinctively as soon as he knew she was facing his father at the lobby. And it is true, KIG never criticized his son for his taste for art, he only became more attentive when KIW decided to make a contract with Kyung Art Gallery, which corroborates my theory that KIW is extremely dependent on YMR and, therefore, for not being able to stay reasonable away from it, I consider it weaker even than the YMR itself. After all, it was a big deal! I would still like to know why YMR didn't have children with KIW since they have been married for 5 years! Another thing the show doesn't make clear: when KIW started beating YMR? They must have had a time of happiness marriage before the violence began. And in this time of happiness, why didn't she get pregnant? Does Kang Il-Gook's claim make sense, after all, what is she doing to avoid babies? Did she take contraception without KIW knowing? Did they, instead, even have an intimate relationship? Or did KIW himself know about the contraceptive, but did he accept it because himself didn't want children? This wasn't yet clear in the drama. How did she avoid babies? Any guess? Someone?

come on girl,  they are not monks, they have human bodies that have needs like anyone else :lol:.... Do you really think a very sexual man as KIW who is totally attracted to his possesion's body won't use that possesion to assauge his sexual needs?  A body that is under stress, can it reproduce? Humans have two consciousness, our conscious thinking mind and our subconscious. The subconscious does not judge unlike the conscious and what we put in our conscious mind, what we think or what we believe, the subconscious will act on, without judgement and will show in our bodies, in our mental states etc. Ma Ri believes that IW does not love her that IW was attracted to her because she looked like his mother. She is in constant stress and fear and she does not want children because she does not want a child to be used like IW was used as a hostage by his father. Her body is used as punching bag including where her uterus is located. The mental, psychological, emotional and physical stress makes the body change the chemicals and cell reactions and makes the uterus unhealthy and unable to produce eggs or her eggs not receptive to be fertilized, in other words the eggs reject them "swimming tadpoles". The drama has illlustrated very clearly the sexual appetite of IW for his wife. And the fear and pain that registers in Ma Ri's face when she anticipates it's happening and the disgust as in vomiting in the toilet after. The PD and writers have implied, suggested denoted in many ways the many times she was beaten, therefore they really don't have to show them doing, either the beating or the bedding. The writers and the PD assume that we read between the lines, (my thinking). 

 

IW had said they were happy and MarI smiled a lot the few months they dated before they were married. Which for me, means she stopped smiling the moment she was married and brought into the house because the moment she stepped into the house she was already under guard and imprisoned. Ma Ri valued independence, she after all supported her sick mother and herself to art school and was anticipating on participating in art exhibitions. So she may have enjoyed a few days or even a couple of weeks as wife before she realized she was imprisoned. That the fight between them started early on and her stress and hell started. When IW proposed, Ma Ri said that she had an art exhibit she was going to participate in a month, but she accepted IW's proposal to be married in a month. Ma Ri may have thought that she can be married and participate in the art exhibit and did not think that IW never consented or encouraged her to join the art exhibits. It was only after she was brought into the house that she realized the impact of IW's not consenting to her participation in exhibitions. She realized she was a prisoner. She may have known then why IW already knew about her mother and had admitted her to a  nursing home his company owned, that IW used her mother as a hostage. 

 

Here are links of a profile of an abuser, it helps to understand IW and Ma Ri's relationship

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-reality-corner/201302/behind-the-veil-inside-the-mind-men-abuse

 

https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/identifying-abuse/profile-of-an-abuser

 

Below is a characteristic written in the article, that appropriately describes IW and why IW is so attractive to women who don't know him, as was also described by HR in the article she read to JW. Dr. Ha also said that IW is popular to his women friends because they think he is attractive, enigmatic, and "devoted to his wife".

 

“Behind the Veil: Inside the Mind of Men That Abuse,” author John G. Taylor writes that "abusive men are very clever, smart and extremely charming. Most of these men have a personality that draws people in because of their level of charm. This is part of their art to deceive and manipulate. Most batterers are seen as “Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" because of the stark contrast in their public and private selves..” Sounds familiar to one of our characters?

 

Quote

You know, the perfect ending for me would be total tragedy for our adorable three characters. The three would die. SJW by the hands of a enraged and jealous KIW. Seeing SJW dead and also to avoid going back to her husband,  YMR kills herself. And finally, KIW seeing YMR dead, feeling guilty for not having managed to protect her and reliving what happened to his mother, which he thinks was his fault, he kills himself.

@juli®

I think that in this version where the family are involved that the mother of JW will act to protect her son and IW's father will do something to show his power and protect the honor of his family and his son, whom he considers his possesion. I don't think anyone will die although people will get hurt. 

 

Here the character whose personality is made so complex is IW. We the viewers tend to understand and pity him at the same time dislike and are confused by him. IW has witnessed the abuse and the suicide of his mother and he was also abused by his father which continued to his adulthood. HIs character garners pity and hope for his character to be freed from the abuse but at the same time his abuse towards his wife reaps anger and dislike towards his character. Then he is shown a vulnerable side and kinder and sweeter relationship with his secretary, his dog and even the female detective working for him. He  has a friendlier and brotherly relationship with his secretary, and he cherishes his dog the only family he likes and he trusts the female detective for her loyalty. Alone in a campground with a bonfire he bares his soul to his dog while petting it and the dog in return leans on him as if to sympathize. The secretary notices his bandaged hand and asks how his hand is. IW earns pity and anger for being who he is. He needs intensive therapy at a place away from his obsession, his crappy family and the people associated with his obsession. My theory is the secretary and the detective will help Mari get out of IW's clutches the 2nd time around inorder to save IW from committing murder. The ending for everyone will be a hopeful one, my guess. 

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2 hours ago, zenya22 said:

listen they are not monks, they have human bodies that have needs like anyone else.... Do you really think a very sexual man as KIW who is totally attracted to his possesion's body won't use that possesion to assauge his sexual needs? Do you really think a body that is under stress can reproduce? We have two consciousness our conscious thinking mind and our subconscious. The subconscious does not judge unlike the conscious and what we put in our conscious mind, what we think or what we believe, the subconscious will act on, without judgement and will show in our bodies, in our mental states etc. Ma Ri believes that IW does not love her that IW sees his mother in her and she is in constant stress and fear and she does not want children because she does not want a child to be used like IW was by his father. The mental, psychological, emotional and physical stress can make her infertile. The drama has illlustrated very clearly the sexual appetite of IW for his wife. And the fear of 

But @zenya22 this is my point, there has not always been stress in this relationship. When they married, I suppose there was love, no fear and violence at the beginning. It may be that KIW himself does not want children.

 

Yeah, I agree with that. 

 

Seriously? When? There is not a scene even sexier between them than that kiss on the neck... 

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8 hours ago, zenya22 said:

come on girl,  they are not monks, they have human bodies that have needs like anyone else :lol:.... Do you really think a very sexual man as KIW who is totally attracted to his possesion's body won't use that possesion to assauge his sexual needs?  A body that is under stress, can it reproduce? Humans have two consciousness, our conscious thinking mind and our subconscious. The subconscious does not judge unlike the conscious and what we put in our conscious mind, what we think or what we believe, the subconscious will act on, without judgement and will show in our bodies, in our mental states etc. Ma Ri believes that IW does not love her that IW was attracted to her because she looked like his mother. She is in constant stress and fear and she does not want children because she does not want a child to be used like IW was used as a hostage by his father. Her body is used as punching bag including where her uterus is located. The mental, psychological, emotional and physical stress makes the body change the chemicals and cell reactions and makes the uterus unhealthy and unable to produce eggs or her eggs not receptive to be fertilized, in other words the eggs reject them "swimming tadpoles". The drama has illlustrated very clearly the sexual appetite of IW for his wife. And the fear and pain that registers in Ma Ri's face when she anticipates it's happening and the disgust as in vomiting in the toilet after. The PD and writers have implied, suggested denoted in many ways the many times she was beaten, therefore they really don't have to show them doing, either the beating or the bedding. The writers and the PD assume that we read between the lines, (my thinking). 

 

IW had said they were happy and MarI smiled a lot the few months they dated before they were married. Which for me, means she stopped smiling the moment she was married and brought into the house because the moment she stepped into the house she was already under guard and imprisoned. Ma Ri valued independence, she after all supported her sick mother and herself to art school and was anticipating on participating in art exhibitions. So she may have enjoyed a few days or even a couple of weeks as wife before she realized she was imprisoned. That the fight between them started early on and her stress and hell started. When IW proposed, Ma Ri said that she had an art exhibit she was going to participate in a month, but she accepted IW's proposal to be married in a month. Ma Ri may have thought that she can be married and participate in the art exhibit and did not think that IW never consented or encouraged her to join the art exhibits. It was only after she was brought into the house that she realized the impact of IW's not consenting to her participation in exhibitions. She realized she was a prisoner. She may have known then why IW already knew about her mother and had admitted her to a  nursing home his company owned, that IW used her mother as a hostage. 

 

Here are links of a profile of an abuser, it helps to understand IW and Ma Ri's relationship

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-reality-corner/201302/behind-the-veil-inside-the-mind-men-abuse

 

https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/identifying-abuse/profile-of-an-abuser

 

Below is a characteristic written in the article, that appropriately describes IW and why IW is so attractive to women who don't know him, as was also described by HR in the article she read to JW. Dr. Ha also said that IW is popular to his women friends because they think he is attractive, enigmatic, and "devoted to his wife".

 

“Behind the Veil: Inside the Mind of Men That Abuse,” author John G. Taylor writes that "abusive men are very clever, smart and extremely charming. Most of these men have a personality that draws people in because of their level of charm. This is part of their art to deceive and manipulate. Most batterers are seen as “Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" because of the stark contrast in their public and private selves..” Sounds familiar to one of our characters?

 

@juli®

I think that in this version where the family are involved that the mother of JW will act to protect her son and IW's father will do something to show his power and protect the honor of his family and his son, whom he considers his possesion. I don't think anyone will die although people will get hurt. 

 

Here the character whose personality is made so complex is IW. We the viewers tend to understand and pity him at the same time dislike and are confused by him. IW has witnessed the abuse and the suicide of his mother and he was also abused by his father which continued to his adulthood. HIs character garners pity and hope for his character to be freed from the abuse but at the same time his abuse towards his wife reaps anger and dislike towards his character. Then he is shown a vulnerable side and kinder and sweeter relationship with his secretary, his dog and even the female detective working for him. He  has a friendlier and brotherly relationship with his secretary, and he cherishes his dog the only family he likes and he trusts the female detective for her loyalty. Alone in a campground with a bonfire he bares his soul to his dog while petting it and the dog in return leans on him as if to sympathize. The secretary notices his bandaged hand and asks how his hand is. IW earns pity and anger for being who he is. He needs intensive therapy at a place away from his obsession, his crappy family and the people associated with his obsession. My theory is the secretary and the detective will help Mari get out of IW's clutches the 2nd time around inorder to save IW from committing murder. The ending for everyone will be a hopeful one, my guess

I'm reading the article...

 

"The cycle of violence will not end until one partner leaves or seeks treatment."

 

I don't think the drama writer will pick this path, but KIW would still hope for change.

 

"Men that are abuse are very clever, smart, and extremely charming. Most of these men have a personality that draws people in because of their level of charm this is part of their art to deceive and manipulate." 

KIW, The businessman, son of a .chaebol's family, who studied at Harvard, who was coveted by the rich young women, but who married a simple young woman and who, they say, is extremely passionate and devoted to his wife. But he was meant to be that way for his father. 

 

"In conclusion I need to say that batters can change they can stop this behavior and treat their intimate partner the way they should be treated. I have seen many men change, I remind myself that people aren’t their behavior, it’s just what is manifested on the surface and we must get beneath that  and deal with the root cause"

KIW can change and have a good ending.

 

 

*****

 KIW didn't reject the rich girls because they knew him, in fact, they didn't know him because he, as you said up there, is mysterious. KIW rejected them because they met the YMR, a poor girl who wasn't in his social circle. The money didn't matter.

 

 

******************

It's true, myself, I cannot forget that frightened sweet little boy at the corner of the wall, being threatened by his father. I just cannot. On several occasions, he has shown affection and attention with YMR, you could see in KIW's look was giving her, so I cannot help liking him. He always protects her from his father by standing in the front to receive an eventual assault in her place! Putting yourself at risk for it.

 

I still think he will not recover without YMR by his side. He was sincere always, he said she is the antidote that will prevent the poison from taking over him. This must be taken into account.

 

I really thought JHR could have hoped for him if she wanted to, but his obsession with YMR is too deep. He even considered having any relationship other than the strictly "professional" relationship with JHR.

 

As for the detective, he's always rude to her. He even said it was not her business where he was going when he left the "WHK" workplace. On the finale, I think it will be as it appeared in the 1st and 1st, KIW will die, although I wish it was not so.

 

The only end that will satisfy me, if the YMR doesn't end with KIW, will be the death of the three characters. To tragedy to tragedy. 

 

I just do not understand why in the preview she asks SJW to return her face. What does she want?

 

 

 

Thanks for the article. :kiss_wink:

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2 hours ago, juli® said:

In conclusion I need to say that batters can change they can stop this behavior and treat their intimate partner the way they should be treated. I have seen many men change, I remind myself that people aren’t their behavior, it’s just what is manifested on the surface and we must get beneath that  and deal with the root cause".

actually batterers don't change that easy because they don't want to change, they don't take responsibility as said in the article. People are their beliefs that becomes habits that become behavior. It has been documented that among batterers 75% of them will return to their abusive behavior within 6 months of saying that they will change. As stated in the article 85 % of those who try to leave their abusive relationships are killed. Of course in this drama, we hope that IW will get therapy and change. YMR is not his way of treatment because she is his obsession or the person whom he depends on to feel "good" which is false "feel good".  The way for him to get better is for him to realize that he is worthy and self reliant and self responsible that he does not have to depend on anyone to feel well because he no longer is dependent on anyone to feel strong but rather he is self reliant. If he depends on Ma Ri, he will never be free or be well. He will be weak as you said. I don't know why you want that for him, to be a weakling. 

 

It was not shown in the first episode that IW died. He was shot and fell in the swimming pool is all that was shown but did not show that he died. Anyway, I think that you are really hung up on having IW and MR together. You think of their relationship as romantic which is not. That you would rather have everybody killed and die rather than have IW let go of YMR get therapy and be well. That is very, very, very sad way of looking at the drama and what I think the writer of the drama is trying to convey which I think is to raise consciousness about domestic abuse that it is not okay, and that abused women/partners need to find a way to leave their abusive relationships, that victims of abuse need our understanding and help. That we also can be compassionate with the abuser by not making their victims as in Ma Ri stay with the abuser like IW to make IW feel better. Again the way for IW to get better is to be self reliant and not depend on controlling or abusing anyone to feel better. That is not being better that is being a crazy bully. I have no idea why you want that for IW. 

 

2 hours ago, juli® said:

 KIW didn't reject the rich girls because they knew him, in fact, they didn't know him because he, as you said up there, is mysterious. KIW rejected them because they met the YMR, a poor girl who wasn't in his social circle. The money didn't matter.

 

It was never said in the drama nor did I ever say that IW rejected but what the article describes is part of the abusive person's MO which fits IW's persona as enigmatic, mysterious and private. He did not want anyone to know about his private life or about what the real IW really is like.  Most batterers are seen as “Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" because of the stark contrast in their public and private selves..” that is part of their MO. IW's private life or what is true about him is that he was abused by his father and his mother committed suicide and he is an abuser himself. He and his father keep that part of themselves unknown to the public. That is what stark contrast in their public and private selves meant and why they are seen as Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. I am sorry, I thought that putting the article was helping to make the relationship of MR and IW more understandable but I think I just made it more confusing. 

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