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[Drama 2019] Love in Sadness, 슬플 때 사랑한다

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@zenya22 This was a great explanation why YMR received WHK's face... You might be right, SJW might have done it unconsciously hence he got shocked when he saw the results. 

By the way, I do think that KIW was attracted by WHK/YMR because of the scarf. Notice that the scarf had flowers on it, the pattern resembles a lot to the paintings YMR used to make. However, he didn't feel attracted to her, when KIW met her at the restaurant. He even noticed that she didn't have the scarf. That's why I still believe that KIW is more attracted by the painter and his creations than the woman herself. He showed no reaction at the restaurant, as YMR was dressed differently and had nothing that could remind him of YMR the painter.

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13 hours ago, juli® said:

 

I think, after seeing the JHR video being rejected, KIW will seduce her and that's when he'll find out all the mess.

IW aleady did seduce HR but not with "romantic or sexual" seduction.... but with seduction of money and support of HR in attaining personal power and fame through fulfillment of her ambition to be the hottest curator of the largest gallery of the country. In return she will serve MR on a silver platter to IW. 

 

There was the scene after IW saw the video of HR being rejected. He was in the car and told his personal assistant/driver to make an appointment with HR. Then when the driver questioned if HR can be trusted, IW says "it can be the blessing of the angels or cursing of the witches". He is not interested in romanctic seduction knowing that HR is obviously in love with JW and romantic seduction is messy and takes a longer time but tempting HR with money and support with power to fulfill her ambition is easier and faster and in return HR gives MR to IW . The scene in the restaurant of HR and IW's meeting showed IW offering HR support to be curator of the largest gallery in the country. And HR even with the disapproval of JW, arranges a dinner date with MR because IW requested it. HR is already doing what IW wants inorder to fulfill her side of the deal. IW's interest or curiosity regarding HK/Ma Ri is already sparked and sooner or later he will connect the two together or HR or Dr. Ha may give IW the info. 

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4 hours ago, zenya22 said:

IW aleady did seduce HR but not with "romantic or sexual" seduction.... but with seduction of money and support of HR in attaining personal power and fame through fulfillment of her ambition to be the hottest curator of the largest gallery of the country. In return she will serve MR on a silver platter to IW. 

 

There was the scene after IW saw the video of HR being rejected. He was in the car and told his personal assistant/driver to make an appointment with HR. Then when the driver questioned if HR can be trusted, IW says "it can be the blessing of the angels or cursing of the witches". He is not interested in romanctic seduction knowing that HR is obviously in love with JW and romantic seduction is messy and takes a longer time but tempting HR with money and support with power to fulfill her ambition is easier and faster and in return HR gives MR to IW . The scene in the restaurant of HR and IW's meeting showed IW offering HR support to be curator of the largest gallery in the country. And HR even with the disapproval of JW, arranges a dinner date with MR because IW requested it. HR is already doing what IW wants inorder to fulfill her side of the deal. IW's interest or curiosity regarding HK/Ma Ri is already sparked and sooner or later he will connect the two together or HR or Dr. Ha may give IW the info. 

 

I said this because this photo (the 2nd photo, specifically). 

 

They seem very close to me. It may be that she gets involved with him, but he, I doubt it. His obsession for YMR is too strong, as you well explained up there.

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4 hours ago, juli® said:

I said this because this photo (the 2nd photo, specifically). 

Is that the still from this week's episodes? If so, I'm guessing that maybe later on, HR got attracted to KIW and attached because of his better ability (power) in fulfilling her personal desire to get established in the gallery. But like you said, KIW only has YMR in mind.

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1 hour ago, ktcjdrama said:

Is that the still from this week's episodes? If so, I'm guessing that maybe later on, HR got attracted to KIW and attached because of his better ability (power) in fulfilling her personal desire to get established in the gallery. But like you said, KIW only has YMR in mind.

 

I think it's the next eps, the 21 - 24. It's going to be hard to see this jerk of these two. About YMR, I think he's only going to use JHR to get to YMR, because I suppose his wife's obsession is so strong and deep that he's not interested in romance with any other woman. In fact, he seems to be annoyed with other women around him. .He was once rude to JHR several times. It even treats WHK better than JHR.

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8 hours ago, juli® said:

I said this because this photo (the 2nd photo, specifically). 

 

Ahhhhh, I see, I guess she got attracted to IW and that will be easier for IW, he does not have to do any seducing. 

 

Spoiler

actually in the J drama the obsessed police detective seduced the woman who was in love with the doctor to get information from her but he only gave her hugs and when he got what he wanted dumped her .... here though I was thinking that IW has money and power that he did not need to seduce her romantically.... but they may follow the original 

 

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8 hours ago, zenya22 said:

Ahhhhh, I see, I guess she got attracted to IW and that will be easier for IW, he does not have to do any seducing. 

 

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actually in the J drama the obsessed police detective seduced the woman who was in love with the doctor to get information from her but he only gave her hugs and when he got what he wanted dumped her .... here though I was thinking that IW has money and power that he did not need to seduce her romantically.... but they may follow the original 

 

Spoiler

Interesting information, I know nothing about the J-drama. So that's what's going to happen.

 

But I think he will seduce her romantically for information. Look where her hand is on his chest. This is very intimate!

Romantic to Korea, which has no kiss or anything ... JHR is in need of the rejection she suffered, she is needy.

 

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19 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

This was a great explanation why YMR received WHK's face... You might be right, SJW might have done it unconsciously hence he got shocked when he saw the results. 

By the way, I do think that KIW was attracted by WHK/YMR because of the scarf. Notice that the scarf had flowers on it, the pattern resembles a lot to the paintings YMR used to make. However, he didn't feel attracted to her, when KIW met her at the restaurant. He even noticed that she didn't have the scarf. That's why I still believe that KIW is more attracted by the painter and his creations than the woman herself. He showed no reaction at the restaurant, as YMR was dressed differently and had nothing that could remind him of YMR the painter.

@bebebisous33

I agree that IW's attraction to YMR is enhanced by his admiration of her paintings and her talent as a painter. However, it would be reducing the significance of the being of the painter herself and denying Ma Ri's reasoning and perceptions which she had said many times to both IW and JW that she reminds IW of his mother because of the likeness of her face to IW's mother which was shown when Dr. Ha paid for a pilfered picture or a (black and white copy) of a picture of the young IW and his mother, the marked likeness of Ma Ri's face to IW's mother's face. Even JW when he saw the picture, was stunned and if I remember correctly, he locked the picture in his desk. That picture may even play an important part in the plot. In their first meeting, IW was attracted to the the painting which may have reminded him of qualities of what his mother could have been as you described and the painting of the woman's face did not exactly look like Ma Ri but the shape of her face and the smile had some similarities. But, when he turned around, his first reaction on seeing Ma Ri standing infront of him was to stare at her face. This was Ma Ri's recollection. The likeness of his mother to Ma Ri was also shown when as a child he was witnessing his father beating his mother and showed a silhouette of her face which was very much like Ma Ri's as PHN acted both as the mother and then the wife. Ma Ri also implied it at another time when they had a fight because Ma Ri went to see her friend about her painting that won in an exhibit and IW found her talking to the friend's boyfriend instead. He raised his fist to hit her face and she said, "go ahead hit this face that you love so much".... she totally called him out and he angrily put his fist down then said, "let's go home" and we see Ma Ri cringing as if she knew what "going home" meant. Yes, Ma Ri's paintings had a significant role in IW's sense memories, the smell of the studio, the paintbrushes and how they were arranged, the paintings and his interpretation of the paintings, and the room itself and most of all the painter whom all his senses have been totally attracted to and obsessed over and stored into his memories. She after all is the painter of these paintings that made tangible impression on IW. However, his memory genes also stored sensual memories of Ma Ri the painter herself, as in the way her body and skin feels to his touch, her smell, her looks, her taste, the sound of her voice and the part of her that attracts him the most he could not help himself from caressing and kissing and the first thing he zones into when he is in sensual mood, her neck. They are all part of the painter herself, the  painter and the woman are one being. IW could have been attracted to the paintings and their significance but not the painter, but there was something in Ma Ri that attracted him to the painter as well, and Ma Ri interpreted it as her facial likeness to his mother and as you said the deeper meaning of her paintings as perceived by IW. For me, they have both significance in IW's obsession.

 

I have been reading recently about the epigenitics scientists study of memory that are proving that  from conception, the fetus inherits genes from both parents and the significant memories those genes hold of experiences and memories from not only the parents but also from previous ancestors. And IW's parents have compelling experiences especially the mother, that would have been stored as memories in their genes and passed on to IW. But for recent short memories to be stored, they have to first pass through the 5 senses and depending on their significance and repetition, they can become strong embedded memories that the body, mind and memory genes can recall easily and IW and MR were married for 5 years and the experiences in that marriage were both intense for them. Intense volatile emotions from passion to anger, of obsession and dependency for IW and pain, fear and sorrow for MR. Ma Ri is a very important part in IW's life, she is his obsession, that his whole being and life, (in his distorted mind), depends on Ma Ri's existence in his life "I can't live without you, I just can't".  And without her outer body their would be no painter for for IW to obsess over, in his mind the painter and the woman are one. Yes, the scarf in MR's neck when they first met at the gallery would have attracted IW's attention but when he pulled the scarf away he zoned into her neck and memories of him kissing the neck, and strong emotions overcame him, that he ran to the bathroom rattled. At the restaurant, he already had calmed himself the night before, yet his instincts and curiosity were aroused for him to request that MR be present at the "celebration". Even when the doctor rejected the signed agreement, IW could just have had his lawyers meet with JW because he already knew as everyone else, the gallery's financial burden on the poor doctor. But he requested MR/HK to be at the dinner celebration. He noticed everything about her as in her not wearing her wedding ring and during the dinner the exchange of the conversation was mostly between MR and IW as if JW was not present. JW noticed as he looked at their postures and interrupted by telling IW to stop talking about his wife. At the, apartment, the paintings and the tools made him very sure that Ma Ri was there. He could not yet fathom the significance of what his instincts were telling him because MR had a different face but yet when he looked at her frightened eyes, he remembers the frightened eyes of another woman and asked Ma Ri again the question burning his head "who are you, what are you" 

Sorry, for the long post.  


@juli®

Spoiler

 

Interesting information, I know nothing about the J-drama. So that's what's going to happen.

 

But I think he will seduce her romantically for information. Look where her hand is on his chest. This is very intimate!

Romantic to Korea, which has no kiss or anything ... JHR is in need of the rejection she suffered, she is needy.

 

Well she maybe the one trying to seduce IW because she wants to use him and wants him to forget about Ma Ri and focus on her revenge with Ma Ri, but it won't work and he uses that as well to get her to spill the beans

 

 

 

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, zenya22 said:

@bebebisous33

I agree that IW's attraction to YMR is enhanced by his admiration of her paintings and her talent as a painter. However, it would be reducing the significance of the being of the painter herself and denying Ma Ri's reasoning and perceptions which she had said many times to both IW and JW that she reminds IW of his mother because of the likeness of her face to IW's mother which was shown when Dr. Ha paid for a pilfered picture or a (black and white copy) of a picture of the young IW and his mother, the marked likeness of Ma Ri's face to IW's mother's face. Even JW when he saw the picture, was stunned and if I remember correctly, he locked the picture in his desk. That picture may even play an important part in the plot. In their first meeting, IW was attracted to the the painting which may have reminded him of qualities of what his mother could have been as you described and the painting of the woman's face did not exactly look like Ma Ri but the shape of her face and the smile had some similarities. But, when he turned around, his first reaction on seeing Ma Ri standing infront of him was to stare at her face. This was Ma Ri's recollection. The likeness of his mother to Ma Ri was also shown when as a child he was witnessing his father beating his mother and showed a silhouette of her face which was very much like Ma Ri's as PHN acted both as the mother and then the wife. Ma Ri also implied it at another time when they had a fight because Ma Ri went to see her friend about her painting that won in an exhibit and IW found her talking to the friend's boyfriend instead. He raised his fist to hit her face and she said, "go ahead hit this face that you love so much".... she totally called him out and he angrily put his fist down then said, "let's go home" and we see Ma Ri cringing as if she knew what "going home" meant. Yes, Ma Ri's paintings had a significant role in IW's sense memories, the smell of the studio, the paintbrushes and how they were arranged, the paintings and his interpretation of the paintings, and the room itself and most of all the painter whom all his senses have been totally attracted to and obsessed over and stored into his memories. She after all is the painter of these paintings that made tangible impression on IW. However, his memory genes also stored sensual memories of Ma Ri the painter herself, as in the way her body and skin feels to his touch, her smell, her looks, her taste, the sound of her voice and the part of her that attracts him the most he could not help himself from caressing and kissing and the first thing he zones into when he is in sensual mood, her neck. They are all part of the painter herself, the  painter and the woman are one being. IW could have been attracted to the paintings and their significance but not the painter, but there was something in Ma Ri that attracted him to the painter as well, and Ma Ri interpreted it as her facial likeness to his mother and as you said the deeper meaning of her paintings as perceived by IW. For me, they have both significance in IW's obsession.

 

I have been reading recently about the epigenitics scientists study of memory that are proving that  from conception, the fetus inherits genes from both parents and the significant memories those genes hold of experiences and memories from not only the parents but also from previous ancestors. And IW's parents have compelling experiences especially the mother, that would have been stored as memories in their genes and passed on to IW. But for recent short memories to be stored, they have to first pass through the 5 senses and depending on their significance and repetition, they can become strong embedded memories that the body, mind and memory genes can recall easily and IW and MR were married for 5 years and the experiences in that marriage were both intense for them. Intense volatile emotions from passion to anger, of obsession and dependency for IW and pain, fear and sorrow for MR. Ma Ri is a very important part in IW's life, she is his obsession, that his whole being and life, (in his distorted mind), depends on Ma Ri's existence in his life "I can't live without you, I just can't".  And without her outer body their would be no painter for for IW to obsess over, in his mind the painter and the woman are one. Yes, the scarf in MR's neck when they first met at the gallery would have attracted IW's attention but when he pulled the scarf away he zoned into her neck and memories of him kissing the neck, and strong emotions overcame him, that he ran to the bathroom rattled. At the restaurant, he already had calmed himself the night before, yet his instincts and curiosity were aroused for him to request that MR be present at the "celebration". Even when the doctor rejected the signed agreement, IW could just have had his lawyers meet with JW because he already knew as everyone else, the gallery's financial burden on the poor doctor. But he requested MR/HK to be at the dinner celebration. He noticed everything about her as in her not wearing her wedding ring and during the dinner the exchange of the conversation was mostly between MR and IW as if JW was not present. JW noticed as he looked at their postures and interrupted by telling IW to stop talking about his wife. At the, apartment, the paintings and the tools made him very sure that Ma Ri was there. He could not yet fathom the significance of what his instincts were telling him because MR had a different face but yet when he looked at her frightened eyes, he remembers the frightened eyes of another woman and asked Ma Ri again the question burning his head "who are you, what are you" 

Sorry, for the long post.  


@juli®

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Interesting information, I know nothing about the J-drama. So that's what's going to happen.

 

But I think he will seduce her romantically for information. Look where her hand is on his chest. This is very intimate!

Romantic to Korea, which has no kiss or anything ... JHR is in need of the rejection she suffered, she is needy.

 

Well she maybe the one trying to seduce IW because she wants to use him and wants him to forget about Ma Ri and focus on her revenge with Ma Ri, but it won't work and he uses that as well to get her to spill the beans

 

 @zenya22

Spoiler

I do not think JHR is a match to face KIW, so she can even try, but she'll lose the story.

 

 

43 minutes ago, zenya22 said:

 

 

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1 hour ago, juli® said:

 

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Haha, that is where the story intensifies... Just imagine what a double rejection of HR would make her feel and for sure her anger won't be directed at the doctor, because no matter how angry she is at JW, he is the love of her life after all.  

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2 hours ago, zenya22 said:

@bebebisous33

I agree that IW's attraction to YMR is enhanced by his admiration of her paintings and her talent as a painter. However, it would be reducing the significance of the being of the painter herself and denying Ma Ri's reasoning and perceptions which she had said many times to both IW and JW that she reminds IW of his mother because of the likeness of her face to IW's mother which was shown when Dr. Ha paid for a pilfered picture or a (black and white copy) of a picture of the young IW and his mother, the marked likeness of Ma Ri's face to IW's mother's face. Even JW when he saw the picture, was stunned and if I remember correctly, he locked the picture in his desk. That picture may even play an important part in the plot. In their first meeting, IW was attracted to the the painting which may have reminded him of qualities of what his mother could have been as you described and the painting of the woman's face did not exactly look like Ma Ri but the shape of her face and the smile had some similarities. But, when he turned around, his first reaction on seeing Ma Ri standing infront of him was to stare at her face. This was Ma Ri's recollection. The likeness of his mother to Ma Ri was also shown when as a child he was witnessing his father beating his mother and showed a silhouette of her face which was very much like Ma Ri's as PHN acted both as the mother and then the wife. Ma Ri also implied it at another time when they had a fight because Ma Ri went to see her friend about her painting that won in an exhibit and IW found her talking to the friend's boyfriend instead. He raised his fist to hit her face and she said, "go ahead hit this face that you love so much".... she totally called him out and he angrily put his fist down then said, "let's go home" and we see Ma Ri cringing as if she knew what "going home" meant. Yes, Ma Ri's paintings had a significant role in IW's sense memories, the smell of the studio, the paintbrushes and how they were arranged, the paintings and his interpretation of the paintings, and the room itself and most of all the painter whom all his senses have been totally attracted to and obsessed over and stored into his memories. She after all is the painter of these paintings that made tangible impression on IW. However, his memory genes also stored sensual memories of Ma Ri the painter herself, as in the way her body and skin feels to his touch, her smell, her looks, her taste, the sound of her voice and the part of her that attracts him the most he could not help himself from caressing and kissing and the first thing he zones into when he is in sensual mood, her neck. They are all part of the painter herself, the  painter and the woman are one being. IW could have been attracted to the paintings and their significance but not the painter, but there was something in Ma Ri that attracted him to the painter as well, and Ma Ri interpreted it as her facial likeness to his mother and as you said the deeper meaning of her paintings as perceived by IW. For me, they have both significance in IW's obsession.

 

I have been reading recently about the epigenitics scientists study of memory that are proving that  from conception, the fetus inherits genes from both parents and the significant memories those genes hold of experiences and memories from not only the parents but also from previous ancestors. And IW's parents have compelling experiences especially the mother, that would have been stored as memories in their genes and passed on to IW. But for recent short memories to be stored, they have to first pass through the 5 senses and depending on their significance and repetition, they can become strong embedded memories that the body, mind and memory genes can recall easily and IW and MR were married for 5 years and the experiences in that marriage were both intense for them. Intense volatile emotions from passion to anger, of obsession and dependency for IW and pain, fear and sorrow for MR. Ma Ri is a very important part in IW's life, she is his obsession, that his whole being and life, (in his distorted mind), depends on Ma Ri's existence in his life "I can't live without you, I just can't".  And without her outer body their would be no painter for for IW to obsess over, in his mind the painter and the woman are one. Yes, the scarf in MR's neck when they first met at the gallery would have attracted IW's attention but when he pulled the scarf away he zoned into her neck and memories of him kissing the neck, and strong emotions overcame him, that he ran to the bathroom rattled. At the restaurant, he already had calmed himself the night before, yet his instincts and curiosity were aroused for him to request that MR be present at the "celebration". Even when the doctor rejected the signed agreement, IW could just have had his lawyers meet with JW because he already knew as everyone else, the gallery's financial burden on the poor doctor. But he requested MR/HK to be at the dinner celebration. He noticed everything about her as in her not wearing her wedding ring and during the dinner the exchange of the conversation was mostly between MR and IW as if JW was not present. JW noticed as he looked at their postures and interrupted by telling IW to stop talking about his wife. At the, apartment, the paintings and the tools made him very sure that Ma Ri was there. He could not yet fathom the significance of what his instincts were telling him because MR had a different face but yet when he looked at her frightened eyes, he remembers the frightened eyes of another woman and asked Ma Ri again the question burning his head "who are you, what are you" 

Sorry, for the long post.  


@juli®

  Reveal hidden contents
  Reveal hidden contents

 

Interesting information, I know nothing about the J-drama. So that's what's going to happen.

 

But I think he will seduce her romantically for information. Look where her hand is on his chest. This is very intimate!

Romantic to Korea, which has no kiss or anything ... JHR is in need of the rejection she suffered, she is needy.

 

Well she maybe the one trying to seduce IW because she wants to use him and wants him to forget about Ma Ri and focus on her revenge with Ma Ri, but it won't work and he uses that as well to get her to spill the beans

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry to intrude, I don't see how the YMR paintings are appealing to KIW, because if it were, he would allow them to expose them to the world.

 

What KIW is seeing, was the face of his mother. That was what attracted him, not the painting.

 

Exactly! 

 

I think YMR's crying after "let's go home" was stuck in her throat because of the tension of moment, not because something would happen later. KIW did not hit her after they got home.

 

This shows how he keeps all his concentration on the YMR. He leaves for work because he receives reports all day about what she is doing.

 

 

But if that's the way it is, then why does not he notice her tension every time he approaches her?

 

I cannot understand how KIW would be attracted to YMR painting. Was his mother a painter too?

 

In fact, the weakness of this relationship is him, for it is he who depends on it. She doesn't depend on he. She never depended. If she can sell her paintings, she lives very well without him. He cannot. And I think that's why he punched the fence so hard, he was trying to lessen the pain he feels from her absence and frustration at not finding her.

 

Yes, he knows she has something that seems familiar to him, but she cannot detect it. So it is that, I think, she will ask to doctor for another attempt to change her face.

 

But what I wonder is, would he really hit her? In the doctor's wife? After invading her house and scaring her, will he really do that?

1 hour ago, zenya22 said:

Haha, that is where the story intensifies... Just imagine what a double rejection of HR would make her feel and for sure her anger won't be directed at the doctor, because no matter how angry she is at JW, he is the love of her life after all.  

True, she will direct the anger to the YMR. After all, she'll think "what this woman has to have two men at her feet, and I don't."

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Does anyone know which song the MBC will release tomorrow? I hope it's "Stay with me". 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Guys, do you know where this place? Is it not in this house that KIW supposedly dies?

 

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17 hours ago, juli® said:

I think YMR's crying after "let's go home" was stuck in her throat because of the tension of moment, not because something would happen later. KIW did not hit her after they got home.

They did not show him hitting her but instead they showed the results of the beating... Ma Ri at home her face contorted in pain clutching her stomach and crawling to the toilet bowl and puking her lungs out. She takes the scissors cutting her hair and then looked at the box of jewelry with a note in it saying to wear the pin on her hair because she looked good in it and meet him for dinner. Mari however threw the pin down on the floor, took her coat and left the house. The next scene shows her following JW to his house in the rain and with lightning as the background she half undresses to show the doctor her batterred and bruised body. To me that is evidence of a beating.

 

For every set of upscale, pricey and chic gift Mari was given.....every bag, set of beautiful outfit, jewelry and gifts represents how many times she was beaten. That is one of the ways IW gaslights Mari, gifting her to apologize then takes her to dinner where he tries to romance her and tells her he loves her.... makes the abused think that it is her fault (classic behavior of an abuser)....  

 

He used her mother as hostage to bring her back and brought her home, then again the next scene shows Ma Ri weeping in pain and despair in the shower in her undies with more bruising in her body...that scene implies she got another beating. And we see her paintings showing the different shapes of flowers representing bruises in different stages in her body. @bebebisous33 explained it very well in her insightful post about the meaning of Ma Ri's painting of the flowers. It is well worth reading again, for me anyway.

 

gaslighting-"an extremely effective form of emotional abuse that causes a victim to question their own feelings, instincts and sanity, which gives the abusive partner a lot of power (abuse is about power and control)"

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2 hours ago, zenya22 said:

They did not show him hitting her but instead they showed the results of the beating... Ma Ri at home her face contorted in pain clutching her stomach and crawling to the toilet bowl and puking her lungs out. She takes the scissors cutting her hair and then looked at the box of jewelry with a note in it saying to wear the pin on her hair because she looked good in it and meet him for dinner. Mari however threw the pin down on the floor, took her coat and left the house. The next scene shows her following JW to his house in the rain and with lightning as the background she half undresses to show the doctor her batterred and bruised body. To me that is evidence of a beating.

 

For every set of upscale, pricey and chic gift Mari was given.....every bag, set of beautiful outfit, jewelry and gifts represents how many times she was beaten. That is one of the ways IW gaslights Mari, gifting her to apologize then takes her to dinner where he tries to romance her and tells her he loves her.... makes the abused think that it is her fault (classic behavior of an abuser)....  

 

He used her mother as hostage to bring her back and brought her home, then again the next scene shows Ma Ri weeping in pain and despair in the shower in her undies with more bruising in her body...that scene implies she got another beating. And we see her paintings showing the different shapes of flowers representing bruises in different stages in her body. @bebebisous33 explained it very well in her insightful post about the meaning of Ma Ri's painting of the flowers. It is well worth reading again, for me anyway.

 

gaslighting-"an extremely effective form of emotional abuse that causes a victim to question their own feelings, instincts and sanity, which gives the abusive partner a lot of power (abuse is about power and control)"

For me this is not evidence of beating, because the first image of this scene that you mentioned YMR is looking out the window, watching KIW get back to work. She is not crying or squirming in pain or anything. She only freak out when he sends her the text message, telling her that they are going to have dinner together.

 

I agree that this is usually a classic behavior of an abuser, but in this scene specifically the show doesn't make it clear if she was beaten, because, as I said, she's not crying soon after he leaves. And I also think it is not so, because if it was every closet would be the number of times he hit her. I do not think so.

 

Again, in this scene I don't think she was beaten, even because she remembers the scene in the painting room. There, yes, she was beaten. And it's this scene she remembers. And she's not crying.

 

On the paintings reflect the bruises, this is scary.

 

gaslighting: was it giving gifts after being beaten or something? Or blame the victim for the beating?

 

MBC release "Stay with me" 

https://youtu.be/uVSM3Xw_EIE

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1 hour ago, juli® said:

For me this is not evidence of beating, because the first image of this scene that you mentioned YMR is looking out the window, watching KIW get back to work. She is not crying or squirming in pain or anything. She only freak out when he sends her the text message, telling her that they are going to have dinner together

If you look at the text, it was the following day, he said we missed the date last night...Ma Ri was looking at him to make sure he left, and if you look at her face looking at the window she looks pained and when she got the text she freaked out, held her abdomen and went to puke at the toilet.... then the next scene where she showed her bruises to the doctor.... I am looking at it in context of how the director expressed Ma Ri's suffering (beating) not directly but in a more imaginative and expressive way, her mental state and her battered body...anyhow we agree to disagree 

 

 

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4 hours ago, zenya22 said:

If you look at the text, it was the following day, he said we missed the date last night...Ma Ri was looking at him to make sure he left, and if you look at her face looking at the window she looks pained and when she got the text she freaked out, held her abdomen and went to puke at the toilet.... then the next scene where she showed her bruises to the doctor.... I am looking at it in context of how the director expressed Ma Ri's suffering (beating) not directly but in a more imaginative and expressive way, her mental state and her battered body...anyhow we agree to disagree 

 

 

That scene was not the next day, remember that KIW left work to get the YMR in the cafeteria. He was going to hit her on the way home, but stopped because he was going to beat in her face. Then he takes her home and then returns to work. And she stares out the window. The bruises are from the day he beat her in the drawing room. The marks stayed. At least that's how I got the picture but I may be wrong. 

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Spoiler

I don't know, I haven't seen the eps yet. 21 - 24, but I saw the preview of eps 25 - 28 and I think JHR likes violent men... :grimace:

 

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@bebebisous33 I am just looking at the scene between HR and IW in ep 21 and even without subs, I think you are right the mantis will sting the king cobra. In the original it was the abuser who did the seducing of the teacher who was the equivalent of HR, but here it seems it is the other way around. The mantis is more in charge. IW is losing it, his control, he looks so confused. Everyone is against him, including his family. He is so lost. With HR, IW looks like the kid who was crouching in the dark waiting for his mommy while the father was threatening him with a golf club. He needs help ASAP but he does not know it. His ending is not looking too good. He Ra seems to be his undoing not MR. No more Mr Mean but lost and confused boy. The look of defiance on his face though with his father, he can also go kill Bang Won. 

 

Be back after subs. This drama is getting better and better. 

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@zenya22 I could just watch what kind of flowers were used for the two episodes from this week and after seeing that they chose Allium made me realize something quite important. Little by little, YMR is growing and if you compare the first flower (cistus) to the last one (Allium), you'll notice a huge difference: the size. Each time, the writer chose a flower that was taller than the former one. Allium can become quite big: 150cm... And this leads me to the conclusion that she will return to her original form: the gladiola.  

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