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[Drama 2019] Love in Sadness, 슬플 때 사랑한다

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14 minutes ago, MidnightRain said:

I kinda get why people are so supportive of In-Wook, it's the same reason why Twilight's Edward and You's Joe are so popular. Somehow some people believe that being obsessed, possessive, and crazy are ~desirable traits in a lover. It's not though. Also, In-Wook's childhood trauma should not serve as an excuse for his treatment and abuse of Ma-Ri

 

I've missed two weeks worth of episodes because I am really not impressed with current Ma-Ri's acting. Does she get any better? :huh:

Edward? I did not understand... 

 

Of course no but this is a fiction, not reality. Aside from that, it's a thriller, he has to find her and take her back to get more exciting.

 

Let's see these next eps. 

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On 3/25/2019 at 5:31 AM, Moroodliin said:

I am an asian and watching it with asian mindset. As i know, asian wives try to fix the problem and try to understand and help and support our husband. I also know few women who lived with such husbands and never left, but husbands arent rich in their situation and heard so many rumors about wealthy wives being beaten and regular patients at hospitals yet stay with their husbands. Maybe i never seen such monsters up close and never met with one, i couldnt imagine the pain or fall out of love. I usually hates abusers in dramas, i dont know why i want to try to understand IW and fix him to be better men.

Abuse happens everywhere in all countries of the world, in all social strata and financial status, abuse of partners, children and others. Many wives who are abused not only in Asia but from all over the world stay in abusive relationships for many reasons including the inability to get support for themselves to leave the relationship because of social, religious and family beliefs and pressure and thus abuse is perpetuated on children who most likely will perpetuate the abuse like IW. It is ok to want to understand IW and fix him to be a better man, as compassionate person, it is good. However, IW has to want to fix himself. One can be compassionate and want IW to be a better person but the fixing has to come from him. No one can fix another person, because the person who needs "fixing" is the only one who can fix himself/herself. For  example if one is overweight to the extent of being unhealthy and a loving relative or even a doctor wants the overweight person to lose weight has no bearing on the overweight person losing weight unless he/she wants to  lose weight and does something about it. And if he/she keeps eating the food that he is addicted to and gives many excuses for the behavior, she/he will not lose weight and compassion for that person losing weight will not do anything. Same thing with IW, Ma Ri going back to him does not solve or make him a better person because Ma Ri is his obsession it only prolongs his abusive/obsessive personality even if he gets a new wife to obsess about the abusive/obsessive personality won't get fixed.  The most compassionate thing to do is to wish the drama will end with him alive and in a place where he can learn he needs fixing and fix himself. Ma Ri too needs fixing to be a better person, she also needs support for her choice of leaving her abusive husband. 

 

Sadly, no one can change the behavioral tendencies of an abusive personality. Most abusers claim that they are willing to change, but overall, biologically they cannot.

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2 hours ago, anony12345 said:

Looks like we still have people in this thread that want the victim to go back to the abuser, to make the abuser feel better. What odd morality. 

Yeah ! throwing a rabbit in the tiger cave to see how it killing & eating to have fun 

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@tiMadam @zenya22 Thanks a lot for your compliment.:wub: Honestly, this weekend I had very important things to do for school hence I hadn't the time and the energy to think about the paintings. So since requested, I'll write something about it.

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17 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

@tiMadam @zenya22 Thanks a lot for your compliment.:wub: Honestly, this weekend I had very important things to do for school hence I hadn't the time and the energy to think about the paintings. So since requested, I'll write something about it.

I love reading your paintings and flowers analysis too...

Hope you can manage your time well :)

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6 hours ago, MidnightRain said:

I kinda get why people are so supportive of In-Wook, it's the same reason why Twilight's Edward and You's Joe are so popular. Somehow some people believe that being obsessed, possessive, and crazy are ~desirable traits in a lover. It's not though. Also, In-Wook's childhood trauma should not serve as an excuse for his treatment and abuse of Ma-Ri. 

 

I've missed two weeks worth of episodes because I am really not impressed with current Ma-Ri's acting. Does she get any better? :huh:

Hey chingu, have missed you. I agree with what you said about IW.

About current Ma Ri, she tries hard but  RSY as IW owns the episodes and he attracts my whole attention when he is in it that it makes up for what the current Ma Ri lacks and I think she is trying hard to do a decent enough job, but that is just me. The doctor has woken up from his nap and given a story to spice his part. I wish though that they will make Ma Ri tougher in the upcoming episodes such as learn self defense psychological and physical because I think as the episodes advance the obsessive and crazy behavior of IW will escalate. The last 4 this past weekend was all about IW and his obsessive stalking and he gives heebie jeebies. Hope you will start watching again

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@zenya22 @ktcjdrama @MidnightRain @avondale16 Last time, I had analyzed this painting.

Spoiler

image-5.png?w=660

 We could see a change in YMR's state of mind. First, there is light signifying that there is hope. Secondly, the bouquet is protected from the rain by a red umbrella. The umbrella is a metaphor for SJW, he is her protector. However, since the surrounding is quite dark (it is night) and it is raining, we can see that YMR is still under the influence of the fear. She seems to be still disoriented. I mean her trauma is huge as she has been living in hell for 5 years. It takes time, until YMR can get rid of PDST.  She has not found her own strength yet, as the flowers are relying on the umbrella. The petunias are also hiding under the umbrella which reflects YMR's actual situation. She is hiding behind SJW and WHK's face. Besides, the night and rain are linked to the fateful time, when YMR's path crossed SJW's. And this is no coincidence. As conclusion, this painting could be perceived as a metaphor for her fateful meeting with SJW that night. He gave her hope, protected her by taking her with his car and told her that he would do the surgery.   

 

Yet as time passes on, we see other pictures from our painter. These are the paintings SJW discovers, when he visits YMR's place for the first time. 

image.pngimage.png

Here we witness another evolution in YMR's state of mind. What caught my attention is the contrast between these pictures and the painting with the umbrella. Little by little, nature is coming back to life. Notice that here the flowers are in the center of the pictures. The traces of darkness have disappeared. The flowers don't need protection at all. They are not hiding behind an umbrella. No, the flowers show themselves as they are. Yet this observation must be put in perspective which I will explain further below.  

  

Striking is that we see the number of flowers increasing: we have two lilies, then three plumerias, 4 red flowers etc. Moreover the presence of a civilization is disappearing. Only the one third picture shows a table made of wood with a white cup of tea. The orange, blue and yellow paintings have all something in common: the background looks more artificial. So 4 pictures out of 5 don't show nature as such. There are all still lives. The only elements associated to nature are the different flowers and that's it. The green painting with the plumerias contrasts to the others because here we can observe a change in the background: YMR used a prairie of grass, more exactly of clovers as background. Clover is associated to luck which illustrates that YMR feels more positive. That's why I said that nature is coming back to life. She thinks, she might be able to move on with her life. Yet there is no sky in it. The sky often symbolizes freedom. Here the plumerias are living among clovers... it was as if they were living freely, yet  also hiding among clovers so that people might not see them. So here again, YMR's picture mirrors her own situation: she is living anonymously, among people so that KIW won't be able to find her. Concerning the other paintings (artificial background or the table), we could say that the flowers hid themselves from the world as they were not put outdoors.

   

And here is her latest creation which reveals how much YMR has changed.

image.png

This time, the sky occupies a big part of the picture indicating that YMR feels more free. The flowers are also put in a meadow but here they can not hide behind the grass as the red bouquet is higher than the grass. Interesting is that this time, there is a butterfly. Actually, a butterfly needs flowers to live thanks to the pollen. Butterflies are fragile and yet beautiful. I would associate them with kindness, gentleness and usefulness. Don't forget the expression "the butterfly effect" outlining the butterfly can have a huge impact on the environment and people. Thanks to butterflies (and bees), we can harvest fruits. Without these little insects, we wouldn't be able to live in a healthy environment. To conclude, the butterfly is here not to protect the flowers, it is quite the opposite. The butterfly is actually relying on the flowers. And this painting is actually made just before YMR decides to help HR by acting as WHK. Therefore I come to the interpretation that this butterfly embodies SJW. And it does fit his personality: his love for flowers, his gentleness, his kindness... he doesn't show any strength, yet thanks to him, people are coming back to life (YMR and his other patients). In my opinion, this painting mirrors the actual situation: YMR wants to help SJW in reality as she feels gratitude. She knows deep down that he needs her, even if he won't say it. So here in YMR's mind, the relationship between SJW and YMR has changed: in her eyes, SJW needs her as he is facing some financial problems. She becomes his support, while SJW is trying to keep acting as her umbrella. 

This explains why YMR is attracted to SJW in the end and she is even falling for him. Flowers and the butterfly have a deep connection which the cobra has not. So if HR is a preying mantis and SJW a butterfly, then at some point she will destroy him with her actions. Don't forget that she perceives herself as a flower, while I see her as an insect. 

 

So that's it. What do you think about this interpretation? Just let me know... 

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18 hours ago, MidnightRain said:

I kinda get why people are so supportive of In-Wook, it's the same reason why Twilight's Edward and You's Joe are so popular. Somehow some people believe that being obsessed, possessive, and crazy are ~desirable traits in a lover. It's not though. Also, In-Wook's childhood trauma should not serve as an excuse for his treatment and abuse of Ma-Ri. 

 

I've missed two weeks worth of episodes because I am really not impressed with current Ma-Ri's acting. Does she get any better? :huh:

I just don't understand why some people think she should sacrifice her happiness and go to him to help him heal. Why is his well being  and happiness anymore important than hers, because he had a bad childhood? That's not how it works

 

The guy needs a therapist.

 

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@bebebisous33 thank you so much.

The last flower you showed with the butterfly made me feel happy while i was watching the show.  I thought aha.. .she finally staring to feel free and not as dark and hopeless as cistus from the 1st ep. 

I really enjoyed reading your analysis of the flowers as it relates to YMR stages to becoming stronger.  She needs to transform from the ugliness of the 5yr to a beautiful new beginning. 

I look forward to read more analysis if you have time.  Also how the next painting shows more growth in finding herself and being free from the trauma of abuse.

 I know iw is close to finding out who she is and hopefully by then she will be be stronger.  I know SJW plays a part in giving her strength but I really want her to stand up to IW.

I love looking at flowers and even taking pics but not well verse in their meanings or even names.

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I was reviewing the drama yesterday and just now I noticed that at dinner, KIW said he didn't understand women, that he only gave love to his wife and she ran away. What a bald-faced! 

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If MR doesn't move to other city ! for sure she will get caught by KIW !

If she lived in my country she could  call police ( 911)..then there were a lot of volunteer groups will help her ,government will help too.

I'm waiting to see what's  happened after MR will be face to face with KIW ?

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37 minutes ago, tulip934 said:

If MR doesn't move to other city ! for sure she will get caught by KIW !

If she lived in my country she could  call police ( 911)..then there were a lot of volunteer groups will help her ,government will help too.

I'm waiting to see what's  happened after MR will be face to face with KIW ?

Me too. I'm looking forward to this scene (I think everyone is). She's going to have to move, the problem is she's going to have to stay in that neighborhood because of her mother.

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3 minutes ago, juli® said:

Me too. I'm looking forward to this scene (I think everyone is). She's going to have to move, the problem is she's going to have to stay in that neighborhood because of her mother.

moving to other city far from there  with her mother

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But for the drama to become thrilling he has to find her and take her back home.

1 hour ago, tulip934 said:

moving to other city far from there  with her mother

But for the drama to become thrilling he has to find her and take her back home.

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@bebebisous33Thank you so much, I enjoyed reading the stories of the flowers showing the growth of Ma Ri in connection with Dr. Seo. Let me write a segue, if I may and expand Ma Ri's painting of JW as the umbrella which is befitting the doctor's persona. JW specializes in reconstructive surgery and as he explained in the beginning episode he does surgery to help people live healthier and better. His staff respect and are loyal to him. He also delves in natural medicine which I presume he uses to enhance his practice. HIs patients love him and even after they become better they come to visit and show him how they are living well as in the farmer or the cook who cut his finger or fingers off and needed it repaired for him to be able to continue his work. He came back later to show the doctor his healed hands and that he was back to work. JW had been researching about people who were revived from a comatose state and he found a case in the US. He called the doctor and made an appointment to attend a conference being given by that doctor. He has not given up hope on HK coming out of her coma. However, HK died on his way back to SK from the conference. He at first refused to do surgery on Ma Ri but when he saw her barefoot, wet and desperately got infront of his car in the middle of the road as she was being chased in the forest by her abusive husband, he made a decision to reconstruct Ma Ri's face and save her life. That is the kind of umbrella he is. Thinking about him that way, I don't think he ever intended to give Ma Ri the face of HK. After he decided to do surgery on Ma Ri, he selected a picture that was very different from his wife's face. It was the middle of the night and and it was done in secrecy and emergently. He thought he had given himself time to memorize the image he found in the computer. His conscious or logical mind memorized that image. However, he just came from burying his wife where he was brokenly grieving and holding on to the picture of HK and it took a long time for him to leave her gravesite, since it was already night time when he picked Ma Ri by the road. Subconsciously his whole being was still with HK. So when he did the surgery, his inner consciousness, his hands who had lovingly touched HK's face so many times, is etched in his memory and subconsciously shaped the face whose picture he just put down on the grave and was very fresh in his mind, on MR. His subconscious rejected the face he just recently tried to memorize. That is why after he took out the dressings and saw what he created, he was very surprised and why he was so unprepared for the complications his creation brought about, as in He Ra's assumptions as many including myself did, that he intentionally created his wife's face on Ma Ri. But looking back at how IW subconsciously reacted to the woman (Mari) with the face of HK, I now think that the same happened to JW. His body and subconscious were still with the woman he just buried and therefore created that face. It happens. Have you ever drove with a planned destination in mind and arrived somewhere else but then realize that where you arrived was where you really wanted to be but don't know logically how you got there? Or had planned a to do a project and wrote up a plan but did it differently and better? Later, when MR was recovering in his home he said that he referred her to a social worker, gave her a phone and his number to call him as soon as she found a place to live in. He really never planned for Ma Ri to stay in his house. But yet he did not want to abandon her after surgery either, she was his patient, afterall. 

 

Now contrast the umbrella painting with Ma Ri's painting in her studio at the mansion, where an agitated IW was sitting staring at a painting asking where Ma Ri was. The painting was of a stormy sea, dark skies and dark indigo turbulent waves ramming on a tilting ship just holding on to stay upright. Big, big difference. 

 

I love how you explained how the paintings background changes as Ma Ri's self confidence increases. Slowly, traces of the "Self Portrait" paintings are gone and slowly parts of her life such as the cup and table and the spaciousness of the sky and butterflies are appearing in her paintings. I agree that at one point, MR will decide to face IW but I think the butterfly who also propagates plants to flower will be helped by those plants in some way to save Ma Ri. I think both will save each other. I am even thinking that the detective will turn on IW at one point. IW is very well known because of his business and he is shown on TV and written up in business magazines but his private life is very private. He is not a social creature. Dr Ha said that he is a mystery but was known to be devoted to his wife. Probably the exclusive and private restaurants he takes her to and the exclusive stores where he has maybe a personal shopper to buy for him gifts of expensive jewelry, clothes and the like to gift Ma Ri after a beating and those people talk or gossip about him and think that the wife is lucky. But it seems no one really knows about Ma Ri or seen her personally. The waiters who serve in places he takes her for dinner seem to be working for him or paid to be quiet about his wife. So the detective may not know about Ma Ri' situation but when she gets to see for herself, she will help Ma Ri. (my guess) 

 

About He Ra, I just realized that she uses JW's mom as an excuse to get what she wants with JW but JW is on to her now. When Ma Ri went to JW's house house after the surgery, he never thought that HR will come barging in. But HR called Mom while she was already in the grocery store to tell her that JW was gaunt, looked depressed and keeps to himself and worried Mom told HR to go ahead and visit him and cook him a good meal. She was thinking that when she gets to JW's house she will tell him that Mom sent her to cook for him. In ep 16, He Ra made sure that IW was not going to be in the building when she asked MR to meet with IW as HK by calling Mom and got the information that JW was going to visit Mom. TSK TSK....

 

I wonder if Ma Ri's friend used the moniker Leah as the painter of the umbrella painting when she sold it to a gallery. Because I think that may be traced by the detective too.

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JHR and KIW, do you believe in this couple? I believe. :grin:

 

Guys, what's this place? 

https://i.imgur.com/uADvaqA.jpg

 

I think, after seeing the JHR video being rejected, KIW will seduce you and that's when he'll find out all the mess.

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Guys, what place is this? 

 

It is not that the house where KIW dies?

 

I think, after seeing the JHR video being rejected, KIW will seduce her and that's when he'll find out all the mess.

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I've always enjoyed RJY's dramas. I'm so used to seeing him as a good guy. He's doing a marvelous job of scaring me to death.  Plus, I enjoyed Park Han Byul in "A well-Raised Daughter" and "I have a Lover." Still, this role of a timid,abused woman - Maybe when she becomes strong & unafraid - maybe then she'll fit the role better. And too, when she is no longer submissive, it will make her less desirable to a man like KIW. 

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5 hours ago, Takingthehighroad said:

And too, when she is no longer submissive, it will make her less desirable to a man like KIW. 

Actually, I think it is the opposite, it triggers his possesive/obsessive and destructive tendencies more. He is a hunter, and has a well developed instinct for hunting, animals and people. He put a loaded gun to her head then stood up and points the gun in the air while turning around and says that he loves to shoot at moving targets if it does not move there is no use in shooting, it does not excite him then points the gun back at Ma Ri's head saying "bang, bang". The first Ma Ri actually defied him many times and she got beaten. He also told her "I was stalking a prey for months and finally got the chance to rip it apart". Defiance triggers possesiveness and savagery in him and he enjoys the process of stalking and it also triggers his violence, "rip it apart". He also is good at gaslighting. Ma Ri suffered that for 5 years, it takes a toll psychologically, mentally and physiologically. Someone like Ma Ri would have needed intensive help not only with her bruised and broken body but her broken mental state and Ma Ri's reactions are what is expected. The way I see it, Ma Ri did a good job facing IW, posing as HK. Her shock at the end of that scene is realistic. The fact that she was able to take her mother away and hide her where the husband can't find the mother says a lot about how smart and determined she was, she will fight for someone she loves. I think the following episodes will trigger that protective attitude when the doctor, her friend and savior will be in danger from IW. I agree and hope that she will learn self defense, mental and physical because she will need the strength with all of her being to face IW.

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3 hours ago, zenya22 said:

Actually, I think it is the opposite, it triggers his possesive/obsessive and destructive tendencies more. He is a hunter, and has a well developed instinct for hunting, animals and people. He put a loaded gun to her head then stood up and points the gun in the air while turning around and says that he loves to shoot at moving targets if it does not move there is no use in shooting, it does not excite him then points the gun back at Ma Ri's head saying "bang, bang". The first Ma Ri actually defied him many times and she got beaten. He also told her "I was stalking a prey for months and finally got the chance to rip it apart". Defiance triggers possesiveness and savagery in him and he enjoys the process of stalking and it also triggers his violence, "rip it apart". He also is good at gaslighting. Ma Ri suffered that for 5 years, it takes a toll psychologically, mentally and physiologically. Someone like Ma Ri would have needed intensive help not only with her bruised and broken body but her broken mental state and Ma Ri's reactions are what is expected. The way I see it, Ma Ri did a good job facing IW, posing as HK. Her shock at the end of that scene is realistic. The fact that she was able to take her mother away and hide her where the husband can't find the mother says a lot about how smart and determined she was, she will fight for someone she loves. I think the following episodes will trigger that protective attitude when the doctor, her friend and savior will be in danger from IW. I agree and hope that she will learn self defense, mental and physical because she will need the strength with all of her being to face IW.

What's that? 

 

It's amazing how KIW's instincts are clear when it comes to YMR. It looks like an internal sensor, when it approaches or it is getting close to it, it beeps.

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