[Drama 2019] Love in Sadness, 슬플 때 사랑한다

[juli®]

51 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

But don't forget that she wasn't supposed to get a plastic surgery after she had called HR. The latter had told her that SJW wanted to help her differently. So when she prepared her escape, she had planned to fake her death so that her husband would stop looking for her, then she would live with her friend's help. But her plan didn't work out because WIK didn't buy her death. Secondly, she met SJW by accident where SJW could reveal her that he would do the surgery. When she had moved her mother to the different institute, she never mentioned the existence of a second daughter: her new face... that's why when she visited her mother later, the staff couldn't recognize her as the daughter. Now, she can no longer claim her mother as the director has already seen the daughter's face. Back then, she could have mentioned the existence of a sister... so that she could have claimed to be the other daughter.

 

Besides, the reason why YMR wanted to run away from her husband is not just the physical abuse, but also it was about the loss of her own identity. Don't forget that the main problem was YMR's identity. When she realized that she had the face of WIK's mother, she felt that her husband didn't love her. Then WIK also tried to change YMR, to have her turned into his mother's image... that's why he chose her clothes, her hair style, her jewels aso. The moment YMR disagreed with her husband and wanted to act differently, she was beaten therefore she never lived her life as YMR. Her identity was taken away from her, even her face as she had the impression that her face was the reason for her husband's obsession and violence. In fact, he wanted to transform her into a doll. And this explains why she was not allowed to show her paintings to the world... it was as if her voice had been even taken away from her.

 

Finally, we shouldn't forget that HR was the one who asked her to live under her real name, since she asked her to cut ties from SJW and not to rely on him. The moment, she started living in that flat, she had to live as someone without an identity. 

 

Like I wrote above, asking help from her friend looked like a stupid move... but she needed a name and number in order to sell her painting. Since she didn't want to rely on SJW more than necessary, she called her friend. JHR had been cleared about that. YMR did respect her wish. 

In fact, at first he bought it, but once they found her purse with the identity and the money, it was that he was certain she was not dead.

By this logic, since she no longer has the face of the WIK's mother, he should leave her alone.

 

Hey @bebebisous33 @zenya22 @ktcjdrama @anony12345 and others peoples here, what do you guys think KIW wanted to say when you asked YMR if she could not live the way he wanted, for his sake, at least for a while. What did he mean by "a time"?

[tiMadam]

KIW is very intuitive and dotting all the "i" in each steps.  He is close to putting the pieces together and so far YMR and JW are not planning on how to avoid him finding out.  The changing of the face was not enough.  She needed to erase YMR.  He will find signs of her through her painting. He knows her too well.

[anony12345]

1 hour ago, juli® said:

Does the person have no chance to recover and lead a normal life? KIW only has a chance to recover with YMR next to him. I think the thriller will not go down this path, but I wonder if that would not be possible.

Of course he has a right to recover but she has no obligation to help him and he's not entitled to anything from her

[juli®]

38 minutes ago, anony12345 said:

Of course he has a right to recover but she has no obligation to help him and he's not entitled to anything from her

Well, they're married... 

[bebebisous33]

11 minutes ago, juli® said:

Well, they're married... 

Just because they are still married officially, he is not entitled to receive anything from her.  First don't forget that she tried to get divorced. So marriage or not, she wanted to leave him therefore she was kept imprisoned. Why should she try to help him, when she has to rescue herself first? She could have died from the abuse. 

 

[juli®]

7 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

Just because they are still married officially, he is not entitled to receive anything from her.  First don't forget that she tried to get divorced. So marriage or not, she wanted to leave him therefore she was kept imprisoned. Why should she try to help him, when she has to rescue herself first? She could have died from the abuse. 

 

@bebebisous33 He would never beat her so hard to kill her. He wants to protect her (in his head, right!), I think, because he couldn't do the same for his mother since he was only 10 when she died.

 

Guys, you're taking it personally. I'm not defending KIW, I'm just trying to see the things behind his actions, the reasons for them. I'm not condone to a husband - or whoever - beating woman!

[zenya22]

2 hours ago, juli® said:

Yeah, it's sad, but I guess that's what she's going to do.

He is drinking heavily, which brings us back to the question of heredity. He needs to get YMR back, too.

You are just like HR, you want to sacrifice the life of Ma Ri because you to feel sorry for an obsessed mentally deranged abusive man. Do you really think Ma Ri deserves to be ppunched and kicked for doing nothing? Do you really think abusing a person could be called love? If the actor did not look like RSY but had an ordinary person's face, are you still going to root for him and forget about Ma Ri wether she lives or dies? Don't tell me, he was abused so he deserves to have Ma Ri as his punching bag? No way does he deserve to have Ma Ri back. If he ever gets Ma Ri back, she is going to kill him, Ma Ri will grow stronger and fight him.  I am not unsympathetic to what he went through as a child from a monster of a father and understand how he got to be what he is but he does not have the freakin right to hurt another human. 

[bebebisous33]

31 minutes ago, juli® said:

@bebebisous33 He would never beat her so hard to kill her. He wants to protect her (in his head, right!), I think, because he couldn't do the same for his mother since he was only 10 when she died.

 

Guys, you're taking it personally. I'm not defending KIW, I'm just trying to see the things behind his actions, the reasons for them. I'm not condone to a husband - or whoever - beating woman!

I disagree with you. YMR expected her death at any time... that's why the painting with the cistus is called a self-portray. Moreover, she knew the meaning of that plant: tomorrow, I'll die. Secondly, the moment WIK told her that the flower reminded him of her: she would resemble the flower, he recognized clearly that YMR had changed. This is what WIK saw:  Secondly, only after this conversation, YMR added the fire...  so the burning flowers were announcing her imminent death. 

Besides, you are forgetting that he warned her that he would kill her. So he already showed murderous tendencies. While reading your comments, I have the impression that you think that YMR might not have been hurt, if she had followed WIK's wishes... And in my opinion, this is just an excuse for WIK's actions because the moment she disagrees with him, she is beaten. In other words, YMR is not treated like a wife but like a possession, a doll. 

[rocher22]

I like all those little things between JW and MR.

The scarf, shoes, the relaxed dinner, their smiles...

They both want simple things.

She wants to paint and JW to do his job, and lead the

gallery, because he likes that.

Compared to that IW looks somehow meaningless. 

[zenya22]

56 minutes ago, juli® said:

He would never beat her so hard to kill her.

so you are saying he would never beat her to kill her so that is okay to beat her? 

 

57 minutes ago, juli® said:

Guys, you're taking it personally. I'm not defending KIW, I'm just trying to see the things behind his actions, the reasons for them. I'm not condone to a husband - or whoever - beating woman!

funny, "see and look for all the things behind his acrions",  sounds like another way of saying  "poor husband,  needs to have Ma Ri back." Don't worry, Ma Ri will either kill him or send him to prison especially if crazy man will  dare to touch kind bland doctor. HIs dad hopefully will end the same way. 

[anony12345]

2 hours ago, juli® said:

Well, they're married... 

Because he seems like the kind of guy that would let her get a divorce..

[juli®]

3 hours ago, zenya22 said:

because

 

3 hours ago, zenya22 said:

You are just like HR, you want to sacrifice the life of Ma Ri because you to feel sorry for an obsessed mentally deranged abusive man. Do you really think Ma Ri deserves to be ppunched and kicked for doing nothing? Do you really think abusing a person could be called love? If the actor did not look like RSY but had an ordinary person's face, are you still going to root for him and forget about Ma Ri wether she lives or dies? Don't tell me, he was abused so he deserves to have Ma Ri as his punching bag? No way does he deserve to have Ma Ri back. If he ever gets Ma Ri back, she is going to kill him, Ma Ri will grow stronger and fight him.  I am not unsympathetic to what he went through as a child from a monster of a father and understand how he got to be what he is but he does not have the freakin right to hurt another human. 

Wrong conclusion. I could say that the problem is the doctor. If I were another actor, I would have been crazy about him, but it's more than that, it's the traumas behind.

 

3 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

I disagree with you. YMR expected her death at any time... that's why the painting with the cistus is called a self-portray. Moreover, she knew the meaning of that plant: tomorrow, I'll die. Secondly, the moment WIK told her that the flower reminded him of her: she would resemble the flower, he recognized clearly that YMR had changed. This is what WIK saw:  Secondly, only after this conversation, YMR added the fire...  so the burning flowers were announcing her imminent death. 

Besides, you are forgetting that he warned her that he would kill her. So he already showed murderous tendencies. While reading your comments, I have the impression that you think that YMR might not have been hurt, if she had followed WIK's wishes... And in my opinion, this is just an excuse for WIK's actions because the moment she disagrees with him, she is beaten. In other words, YMR is not treated like a wife but like a possession, a doll. 

Her considerations are very interesting, indeed, the added fire clearly shows something burning, but I think she thought so because she could not stand the life that lived next to her husband and would repeat what the mother of the WIK did. So she said in Studio that she knew she would have the same fate as her mother.

 

Now, I did not forget, but it doesn't make sense for KIW to kill the object of his obsession. KIW threatened, but he would never really kill her. The father himself didn't do it with his wife! She killed herself.

 

KIW herself said she ran away, her father caught her; She fled, the father caught her. Until the day she killed herself. So, I guess that's why YMR always thought they were going to die the next day. Not because of her husband, but because she was going to take her own life. As did his mother.

 

 

Oh God, why you, guys, don't understand me ...

 

I think you're being unfair to JHR. She's being so pressured by KIW, it's only natural that she wants to get rid of him with a simple way YMR passes through WHK. They did not even know each other, you can not demand that JHR consider YMR that much.

 

[zenya22]

20 minutes ago, juli® said:

Wrong conclusion. I could say that the problem is the doctor. If I were another actor, I would have been crazy about him, but it's more than that, it's the traumas behind.

hmmmphhhh,  you keep making traumas an excuse, as if it gave the right to hurt his wife.....I think you need to read up on domestic abuse and see the real thing, 85% of women who try to escape their abusers get killed. And who says that or guarantees that YR won't killed by the abusive husband? SMH 

[juli®]

4 minutes ago, zenya22 said:

hmmmphhhh,  you keep making traumas an excuse, as if it gave the right to hurt his wife.....I think you need to read up on domestic abuse and see the real thing, 85% of women who try to escape their abusers get killed. And who says that or guarantees that YR won't killed by the abusive husband? SMH 

Yes, you're right, I go out delivering battered women out there... What madness! This is fiction, not reality. I'm discussing fiction. No one is really going to die. It's just an alternate ending to the show. But because so much stress, the show's producers are not going to make it happen, we all know.The end should be what everyone expected. With KIW dying in the end.

[zenya22]

6 minutes ago, juli® said:

Yes, you're right, I go out delivering battered women out there... What madness! This is fiction, not reality. I'm discussing fiction.

Sure fiction, but fiction or not it reflects reality. Your discussing delivering an abused woman to an abuser??? It could happen that she might be back in his hands in the story but that does not make it allright just because IW was abused in his childhood. Taking back MR does not make him better. It just makes him more cruel to her just because she dared to leave him. 

[juli®]

16 minutes ago, zenya22 said:

Sure fiction, but fiction or not it reflects reality. Your discussing delivering an abused woman to an abuser???

But it's not a real. And I was being ironic about it.

 

He may want revenge on her but it does not even make sense to have her back as she has changed her face.

 

 

Coming back to the show, I think perhaps WHK's signature is decisive for KIW to know the truth.

[Shinobu]

I find it nonsensical to have MR taking over doc's wife identity as if his wife's corpse evaporated but I continue to roll because of Ryu Soo Young.  He is intense in his role and he drives the suspense.  If crazy husband is out of the picture, it'll be just a romance story with the boring doctor and from what I've seen so far, it's about as exciting as watching the grass grows in winter.

[zenya22]

IW and his father/son love-hate complicated and contorted relationship.

In episode 1 IW comes home to a Ma ri in preparing supper who appears spaced out while she is preparing a salad for the table. She did not even here IW come into the house. IW asks if Ma Ri enjoyed the gallery which startles MR and drops the plate of salad and breaks it. IW approaches from behind concerned that she hurt herself and then looks at MR's neck and carresses it saying he loves to caress her neck. He then back hugs her buries his face in her neck then said, "I am exhausted. I have been stalking a quarry and finally got the chance to rip it apart. I just left the hunting ground that reeked of blood and come home to you. I can't live without you, I just can't and then tightens his back hug on Ma Ri and kisses her neck. Ma Ri's body tightened and her face full of disgust and fear as if wishing she was anywhere else but where she was. 

 

Next scene at the breakfast table: younger bro was late and dad was angry, he was going to hit the kid when MR got in front of the father to shield the kid. Dad raised his hand to hit anyway and IW blocked his father's arm with his hand telling his father to stop. Dad relented and they sat to eat breakfast. Dad asks IW for a report about what happened to the Jeju project and IW says Mr Choi will report to you. Dad tells IW that he is asking the President of Gunwha Group to report and IW retorts back with "I did it the way you taught me" then continued with "I appreciate it if we don't discuss business at the breakfast table and if you insist, then we will eat separately". Dad replies ok but then turns his attention to Ma Ri and starts to gripe about Ma Ri not getting pregnant, that he and the family did not approve of MR but IW insisted on marrying her anyway. She should get pregnant blah blah. IW interrupted again with "I will do my best, so as not to blemish the family name". 

 

Episode 4: hunting ground: Dad shoots at the target of flying birds and missed x2. IW takes aim and got em in one shot. Dad approves beaming. Then says I heard you ordered Director Choi to get a pistol. Smiles proudly then says, every man wants to pull the trigger. Choi brought the pistol to me and I checked it. It looked nice. The world is a war zone. You must blow the other man's head first if you don't want to die. I brought you up to be a master so you don't miss a step, so that no one can betray you." 

 

And the last scene with his father was again at the breakfast table and Ma Ri is now missing. 

Dad: I called the board meeting. 

IW interrupts: I told you that I already know and prepared for the agenda to be discussed at the meeting.

Dad says something about him not being ready and IW argues that he is at the age when his father started the company. Dad tells him "you are still too soft" and IW retorts back, "you beat me constantly  when I was a child and that hardened me." There was a look on the father's face who was silent for a moment and when the stepmom tried to interrupt, dad yelled at the woman to shut up. Dad then says that he is not naming an heir and he was going to let the sons fight the heirdom out. IW stares angrily at his stepmom and looks angrily at the stepbrother like a hungry wolf trying to measure his next meal. 

 

These scenes show that from the time IW was conceived in his mother's womb, to his childhood and adulthood, he had no chance of knowing how to be, how to think, how to act other than what his father groomed him to be. He grew up watching his father beat his mother, then his father threatening him with a golf club and ordering him to call his mother to come back home when his mother ran away. He and mom probably tried to protect each other and he more than mom as he blames himself for being responsible for his mother returning home after she ran away and yet he saw his mother kill herself to get away. So, he must also feel resentment for mom because after all that, she killed herself and  left him. His father took away all pictures of his mother and anything that reminded of the existence of his first wife. The kid was not even given space to grieve the death of his mother nor was he given counseling as the father did not want people to know anything about what happened to his wife and probably believed that counseling are for "soft" people. IW grew up to "become" his father. He seems to be afraid of his father but we also see traces of "fear" from his father as IW tries to challenge his authority in subtle ways especially when it comes to Ma Ri. I think that the father may be blaming MR for his son's alleged "softness". But it won't be that easy to unseat or push IW from what he perceives he deserves, to be the "heir" to the company, afterall his father raised him to be like himself. "Blow someone's head off inorder not to die and don't let anyone betray you". H reminds me of kill Bang Won in SFD who killed his mentor SJD, his little stepbrother who was named the heir by his father and caused his father to abdicate his crown to the older brother and that caused another fight of the princes where he exiled his other brother and made the other older brother to abdicate the throne to him. He afterall worked his butt off to secure the throne for his father. I think IW will go kill Bang Won but his downfall will be his obsession for MR. I really hope though that the drama does not go the corporate way... and concentrate the drama on the 4 main characters. But this is a 40 episode drama so who knows. 

[rocher22]

Poor, clueless JW...

He was so happy when he told to HR that MR was

the one who painted the painting.

And, then he was confused why HR wasnt as happy as he is. 

[juli®]

15 hours ago, zenya22 said:

IW and his father/son love-hate complicated and contorted relationship.

In episode 1 IW comes home to a Ma ri in preparing supper who appears spaced out while she is preparing a salad for the table. She did not even here IW come into the house. IW asks if Ma Ri enjoyed the gallery which startles MR and drops the plate of salad and breaks it. IW approaches from behind concerned that she hurt herself and then looks at MR's neck and carresses it saying he loves to caress her neck. He then back hugs her buries his face in her neck then said, "I am exhausted. I have been stalking a quarry and finally got the chance to rip it apart. I just left the hunting ground that reeked of blood and come home to you. I can't live without you, I just can't and then tightens his back hug on Ma Ri and kisses her neck. Ma Ri's body tightened and her face full of disgust and fear as if wishing she was anywhere else but where she was. 

 

Next scene at the breakfast table: younger bro was late and dad was angry, he was going to hit the kid when MR got in front of the father to shield the kid. Dad raised his hand to hit anyway and IW blocked his father's arm with his hand telling his father to stop. Dad relented and they sat to eat breakfast. Dad asks IW for a report about what happened to the Jeju project and IW says Mr Choi will report to you. Dad tells IW that he is asking the President of Gunwha Group to report and IW retorts back with "I did it the way you taught me" then continued with "I appreciate it if we don't discuss business at the breakfast table and if you insist, then we will eat separately". Dad replies ok but then turns his attention to Ma Ri and starts to gripe about Ma Ri not getting pregnant, that he and the family did not approve of MR but IW insisted on marrying her anyway. She should get pregnant blah blah. IW interrupted again with "I will do my best, so as not to blemish the family name". 

 

Episode 4: hunting ground: Dad shoots at the target of flying birds and missed x2. IW takes aim and got em in one shot. Dad approves beaming. Then says I heard you ordered Director Choi to get a pistol. Smiles proudly then says, every man wants to pull the trigger. Choi brought the pistol to me and I checked it. It looked nice. The world is a war zone. You must blow the other man's head first if you don't want to die. I brought you up to be a master so you don't miss a step, so that no one can betray you." 

 

And the last scene with his father was again at the breakfast table and Ma Ri is now missing. 

Dad: I called the board meeting. 

IW interrupts: I told you that I already know and prepared for the agenda to be discussed at the meeting.

Dad says something about him not being ready and IW argues that he is at the age when his father started the company. Dad tells him "you are still too soft" and IW retorts back, "you beat me constantly  when I was a child and that hardened me." There was a look on the father's face who was silent for a moment and when the stepmom tried to interrupt, dad yelled at the woman to shut up. Dad then says that he is not naming an heir and he was going to let the sons fight the heirdom out. IW stares angrily at his stepmom and looks angrily at the stepbrother like a hungry wolf trying to measure his next meal. 

 

These scenes show that from the time IW was conceived in his mother's womb, to his childhood and adulthood, he had no chance of knowing how to be, how to think, how to act other than what his father groomed him to be. He grew up watching his father beat his mother, then his father threatening him with a golf club and ordering him to call his mother to come back home when his mother ran away. He and mom probably tried to protect each other and he more than mom as he blames himself for being responsible for his mother returning home after she ran away and yet he saw his mother kill herself to get away. So, he must also feel resentment for mom because after all that, she killed herself and  left him. His father took away all pictures of his mother and anything that reminded of the existence of his first wife. The kid was not even given space to grieve the death of his mother nor was he given counseling as the father did not want people to know anything about what happened to his wife and probably believed that counseling are for "soft" people. IW grew up to "become" his father. He seems to be afraid of his father but we also see traces of "fear" from his father as IW tries to challenge his authority in subtle ways especially when it comes to Ma Ri. I think that the father may be blaming MR for his son's alleged "softness". But it won't be that easy to unseat or push IW from what he perceives he deserves, to be the "heir" to the company, afterall his father raised him to be like himself. "Blow someone's head off inorder not to die and don't let anyone betray you". H reminds me of kill Bang Won in SFD who killed his mentor SJD, his little stepbrother who was named the heir by his father and caused his father to abdicate his crown to the older brother and that cauThese scenes show that from the time IW was conceived in his mother's womb, to his childhood and adulthood, he had no chance of knowing how to be, how to think, how to act other than what his father groomed him to be. He grew up watching his father beat his mother, then his father threatening him with a golf club and ordering him to call his mother to come back home when his mother ran away. He and mom probably tried to protect each other and he more than mom as he blames himself for being responsible for his mother returning home after she ran away and yet he saw his mother kill herself to get away. So, he must also feel resentment for mom because after all that, she killed herself and  left him. His father took away all pictures of his mother and anything that reminded of the existence of his first wife. The kid was not even given space to grieve the death of his mother nor was he given counseling as the father did not want people to know anything about what happened to his wife and probably believed that counseling are for "soft" people. IW grew up to "become" his father. He seems to be afraid of his father but we also see traces of "fear" from his father as IW tries to challenge his authority in subtle ways especially when it comes to Ma Ri. I think that the father may be blaming MR for his son's alleged "softness". But it won't be that easy to unseat or push IW from what he perceives he deserves, to be the "heir" to the company, afterall his father raised him to be like himself. "Blow someone's head off inorder not to die and don't let anyone betray you". H reminds me of kill Bang Won in SFD who killed his mentor SJD, his little stepbrother who was named the heir by his father and caused his father to abdicate his crown to the older brother and that caused another fight of the princes where he exiled his other brother and made the other older brother to abdicate the throne to him. He afterall worked his butt off to secure the throne for his father. I think IW will gosed another fight of the princes where he exiled his other brother and made the other older brother to abdicate the throne to him. He afterall worked his butt off to secure the throne for his father. I think IW will go kill Bang Won but his downfall will be his obsession for MR. I really hope though that the drama does not go the corporate way... and concentrate the drama on the 4 main characters. But this is a 40 episode drama so who knows. 

I think there is no love in this relationship.

 

Yep, YMR shows disgust for his hug.

 

By the way, that's why I think they don't have a kid, they didn't have intimacy and, it seems, KIW didn't force her to have sex with him. 

 

In this ep 4, you can see KIW annoyed by what the father told him, he's exasperated. So, I ask, who's the family psychopath?

 

I cannot imagine that child being beaten, what evil!  Now that you mentioned, I had not noticed that silence on the scene.

 

He's a ambitious man, he saw them as rivals.

 

You summed it up very well, that's exactly what I was trying to say. That's why in the scene Dad tells him to get the YMR pregnant, he grabs the gun and begs YMR to come back and comfort him. That is what I am talking about, violence is not justified, but the case of KIW deserves a deeper analysis of us, laymen, lovers of Doramas. The traumas he carries are too heavy, you can not ignore them and only throw stones!

 

13 hours ago, rocher22 said:

Poor, clueless JW...

He was so happy when he told to HR that MR was

the one who painted the painting.

And, then he was confused why HR wasnt as happy as he is. 

Although YMR didn't do it on purpose, the fact is that she involved a lot of innocent people in this whole mess. JHR is right to be annoyed, after all she is the one who is dealing directly with KIW and receiving all the pressure of him.