[Drama 2019] Love in Sadness, 슬플 때 사랑한다

[tulip934]

I dislike KIW so much ! but I wish MBC will give the actor who playing KIW a  GOLD award for excellence acting ! when I see him on the screen I feel goose bump 

[zenya22]

9 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

I agree with you that WHK and dr. Ha seem to be similar which explains why WHK fell for him at some point. However, I would like to add that in my opinion, HR played a bigger role in creating a riff in the couple SJW-WHK than it meets the eye.

I agree, HR played  a bigger role in the misunderstanding between JW and his wife which is why I said that even without her role in creating a bigger misunderstanding between the two, that there would have been tension in the marriage that could have led to HK's cheating on her husband. All I am saying is, I understand Hae Ra's resentments and her jealousy I don't condone her actions. It was not only her love of JW but her ambition professionally and her efforts in the gallery that she feels she was not loved back or appreciated for. However, she could have moved on and gotten a better life somewhere else but her idea that she was "entitled" to JW because of her feelings for him for a long time, much longer and earlier than HK is not reasonable because it takes two to tango. I understand her feelings of resentments but I don't understand nor condone her reasoning and actions because of it. Now, she decides to move on with the help of IW who promised to make her the owner of the largest gallery in the country knowing he is a nutcase and a danger to another woman. She does not even realize that she could also be in danger. She means nothing to IW.

 

 

7 hours ago, Moroodliin said:

I keep rooting RSY to win the girl and heal the wounds from broken home and become a good man. As i married woman, I am not believing married woman of 5 years could fall in love this easily with another man. Also such innocent woman marrying for money this easily is very surprising for me and never loving her husband. Double eyeroll.  Also when everytime doctor appears to save YMR, i hate how cinderella she is being or becoming. I never disliked female leads being a cinderella in dramas before. I'd love another surgery and then doctor and she could properly love each other maybe. Everytime doctor sees YMR and thinking this love is his next chance to be with more mellow Ha Kyung? Some of us has problem with IW is seeing MR as his mother and obsessed with her. Why dont you find doctor wanting to fall in love with a woman exactly looks like his first wife? Everytime doctor sees YMR and thinking this love is his next chance to be with more mellow Ha Kyung? Some of us has problem with IW is seeing MR as his mother and obsessed with her. Why dont you find doctor wanting to fall in love with a woman exactly looks like his first wife? 

@Moroodliin a woman married for 5 years....hmmmmm.... but are you talking about a woman married happily for 5 years??? not a woman who has been punched, kicked, isolated and imprisoned right?? Did you see how IW punched the fence in the ending of the last episode because he was very upset? Just imagine him punching YMR, his wife, with the same ferocity and for 5 years? You think a woman could love a monster of a husband as that and blames herself as the reason for the monstrosity? In LMIH, I suspect that many people disliked the abusive husband because the drama featured the abuse graphically as in showing silhouettes of the husband throwing down the wife, punching and kicking her and it was featured more than once and he also cheated on his wife with the butler. But here the drama showed results of the abuse as in the bruises in the abused woman's body and some of the bruising looked like bites. I have the impression here that you think it was all the woman's fault for marrying for money and she does not deserve to have a better life for herself but the abusive husband does? Whirlwind romances do happen where people marry after a short period of courtship for many reasons that is life... and it may or may not work, but that does not mean that they have to stay in a marriage of hell especially the abused person who has been abused for 5 years if she chooses to leave. IW is a son of the richest or one of the richest families in the country. He is described by the media and other characters in the drama as charismatic, mesmerizing, handsome and outstanding businessman but enigmatically mysterious which makes him seemingly more attractive. That is a person who could have attracted many women and some of them would have married him in a jiffy because of his charisma and yes his money. People make mistakes but they don't have to suffer endlessly for their mistakes and stay in hell forvever because it is their fault for marrying for money....Huh??. He Ra described IW succinctly to a T when she talked about him after she researched abusive men. She actually shivered when she saw him on TV and said "king cobra", gorgeous, emanates elusive magnetism, powerfully attractive and dangerously lethal. Attractive from afar, away from it's deadly stings. Yes, we all have compassion for IW and wish him to become a better person which means he needs to be given an environment where he can learn how to be one and that is, a correctional facility with mental health practitioners or the like, because that is where he needs to become mentally and psychologically healthy and not end with the girl who is the object of his obsession and abuse and whom chose to leave him. Who knows maybe he will end up with Hae Ra after his treatment. After all they partnered in business and they are more alike.

 

As for JW, yes the drama did not focus on him in earlier episodes The drama focused more on the thrill of the escape and chase of IW and Ma Ri. They showed the doctor after his wife died in a fog as if he were in denial, emotionally flat as if numb inside which maybe a normal response from him. Many postings from early on did question his intentions for creating his wife's face on the already psychologically traumatized Ma Ri. Maybe, you have not read those comments but there were discussions about it. He Ra described him as mild mannered, giving and non demanding person which made him look wimpish in the eyes of many. However, I think these last episodes made the doctor come alive and I love it, showing that he is human after all.  It seemed that he did not have anyone to talk to about his feelings because his friends were all about themselves and not trustworthy and probably judgemental like He Ra. It was his mom whom he confessed his feelings and regrets of what he had done. He went to the grave of his dead wife and here he poured all his resentments as the drama showed him catching his wife on the phone with her lover. He also poured his regrets that he did not do more, question and confront his wife because he was afraid to hear the truth. He blames himself for the lose of love in their marriage. He rationalized while speaking to the grave of HK that  he gave her face to the woman who needed it inorder to live. Then we see him calling Ma Ri as HK in the lobby and where it dawned to both of them the significance of the doctor's decision to change Ma Ri's face into HK's face and it's possible complications in their friendship. As of these latest episodes, I would say that they have not fallen in love yet because they were busy trying to elude and hide the identity of Ma Ri from the abusive husband. In these last four episodes they are starting to be aware and question their feelings and the question of "the face" come up for both of them. JW questions his intentions for creating HK's face in Mari and it bothers him that he walked back and forth at the park and he asks himself if he created his wife's face because he wanted to do his failed relationship all over again and he does not want to let go of HK? He then realizes that if those questions arose and bothered him, that it might have also bothered Ma Ri especially when he called her mistakenly HK at the lobby. He then runs to Ma Ri to invite her for a walk and talk in the park. For the first time since his wife's death JW was able to talk candidly about his wife to someone he trusts as a friend. As JW walked Ma Ri back to her apt, they continued to talk and Ma Ri told JW that she appreciates his frankness in talking about his wife. But then she questions silently, "do you see your wife when you look at me?" For me, this is just the beginning of a "love" relationship for them. They are establishing trust and friendship in each other which both sorely need. The preview shows Ma Ri saying "I am not your wife" and asking to have a new face. No the doctor is not going to give her another face. He already realized his first mistake to give her his wife's face and he is not going to reconstruct again. It is not going to solve their problems. However, that statement will push the doctor to re-examine his feelings and do what he got to do, to love Ma Ri with all his heart.

 

It is not going to be an easy romantic ride to the sunset for these two but a thorny ride to a loving sunrise preferably in a beach island. 

 

@ktcjdrama

Quote

 

I have a question re.plastic surgery in SK... hopefully someone can answer.

 

So in the case of total reconstruction of a face, will the patient need to request a letter or some sort of document from the doc, and then go update his/her official photo ID, such as passport, etc.etc?

 

this is my pov re: your question of reconstructive surgery not necessarily in SK, (because I wouldnt know,) but in general.  

 

Reconstructive surgery is done for medical purposes for example to babies or children born with defects which affect their quality of life as in living a healthy life such as in having a nose defect that affects the breathing or a cleft lip and palate if affects healthy eating and speaking, eyelids that droop too much it affects seeing and bone structures that affect the way of life and not only on the face but other parts of the body. It is also done to correct defects that is gotten from diseases such as cancer and also after trauma to the face or other parts of the body where reconstruction of the bone or body part through surgery is needed to save a life or improve life and not to change identity.

 

In the drama, that is the reason Dr. Seo refused to do the surgery initially on Ma Ri.

[ktcjdrama]

SJW only made the mistake of calling YMR as HK once, because she is dressed like her and he's just been to her grave. Other than that, he was never confused who the woman (with his wife's face) standing in front of him. I appreciate this part about him. So I never thought he gave HK's face to MR because he was obsessed with HK and wanted a replacement for his dead wife. Seeing his shocked reaction when he took off the bandages, I think he never meant for it to be so alike. And never once did he ask YMR to stay with him. He let her go wherever she wants, he just want her to be happy and smiling. Never wanting to possess her (I mean the face)

[bebebisous33]

 @ktcjdrama I agree with you. I'm not bothered by SJW's action at all because in the end, it is the best protection for YMR. KIW is getting confused, he is still looking for YMR, although she is right in front of him.

@zenya22 I see it a little differently, when it comes to HR. In my eyes, she is the main reason why the marriage between WHK and SJW didn't work out. I don't buy anything what HR says because she is always lying. And the thing is that SJW has not realized yet what HR did behind his back: HR said that SJW would never do the surgery which wasn't right. Besides, I have the feeling that doctor Ha and HR will use the affair and the face as a point in order to destroy the relationship between YMR and SJW. 

[Firefly]

4 hours ago, juli® said:

I think KIW's initial idea was to redeem himself in the YMR for what his father did to his mother, KIW, and his guilt for having asked his mother to go back, but things got out of his control. 

  This is what i think too. He was in love and wanted to live happy life with her. But you know the pressure from daddy, and his life experience made him this way. If he wasnt in love, he could have married any rich girl and be even more rich as his dad said. 

 

58 minutes ago, zenya22 said:

 

@Moroodliin a woman married for 5 years....hmmmmm.... but are you talking about a woman married happily for 5 years??? not a woman who has been punched, kicked, isolated and imprisoned right?? Did you see how IW punched the fence in the ending of the last episode because he was very upset? Just imagine him punching YMR, his wife, with the same ferocity and for 5 yeas? You think a woman could love a monster of a husband as that and blames herself as the reason for the monstrosity? 

I am married for 13 years and met my dh 14 years ago. I have never been in abusive relationship. But i dont think he beat her for 5 years straight, might be wrong. Usually people are happy for first 1 or 2 years and argument here and there since they are very 2 different people to make a home together. 

 

Also i am little bit inclined to think IW is such a monster you wrote. If he was punching her so badly like you said, there is gonna be lot of broken bones and scars and she wouldnt argue with him that fiercely, would she after 5 years ? I am not defending the abuser in any way. Just writing my POV.  

 

Now about korean society, they are very much about patriarchy system from many dramas i watched. Most of rich wives are almost locked at home and shopping and some rich wives meeting and nothing else. Mari is in exact same situation. 

3 hours ago, tulip934 said:

I dislike KIW so much ! but I wish MBC will give the actor who playing KIW a  GOLD award for excellence acting ! when I see him on the screen I feel goose bump 

I'd love to see him a lead role in melo or any good drama soon too.

[juli®]

6 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

Sorry, I can not root for KIW at all, although the actor is doing a terrific job. You wonder why a woman after 5 years of marriage can fall in love with another man? After reading your comment, I have the impression that you are describing the woman as unfaithful and as easily swept away. I can understand why YMR falls for the surgeon because during these 5 years, she had been abused by her husband. SJW acts the exact opposite of her own husband. SJW will do anything to protect her, the husband will do anything to imprison her while claiming to protect her. From whom did she need protection in the past? Who was threatening her? No one, except the husband. YMR doesn't love him any more, I wouldn't either in her place and it is her right to do so. How can you overlook the domestic violence?

The marriage lasted 5 years because YMR couldn't divorce him... if she had had the means, she would have left him a long time ago.

It is a common knowledge that an abused spouse should leave the husband, the opposite often happens because the victims believe that if they keep loving the violent spouse, he might change due to their love which NEVER happens!! (the savior syndrome that @zenya22 mentioned) Don't forget that each painting with flowers represent her body full of bruises... So have you seen how many paintings that were in her studio? She must have been hurt very often. My major problem is not the face... I really dislike KIW for many reasons: his violence, his selfishness, his ruthlessness, his possessiveness and his delusion. This is not love at all.   

In fact, YMR told this to SJW that she was married to escape the bad condition of life she had in the past, she wanted security (ironically, she eventually ran away for "over-security" since her husband always used the excuse to arrest her to protect her ... I'm just joking!). 

 

About others things, well, let's see what will happen.

[Firefly]

Also this is a drama. Many characters involved. I'd love to be peaceful about it. I have seen very young IW witnessed his mommy's death and he said he was beaten so many times too. I feel sympathy for him too. I bet many others feel the same too. Doesnt mean i am supporting his wife beating tendency. 

About Hae Ra, i feel like she is gonna do a lot harm to YMR in the future. I wouldnt say she is the reason HK fell out of love with the doctor. I would need to see more to reach that conclusion. 

Also even doctor said just once Ha Kyung. He is always reminded of Ha Kyung when he meets YMR.  Seems next week they would live together i suppose. Cant wait to see next episodes. 

[bebebisous33]

19 minutes ago, juli® said:

In fact, YMR told this to SJW that she was married to escape the bad condition of life she had in the past, she wanted security (ironically, she eventually ran away for "over-security" since her husband always used the excuse to arrest her to protect her ... I'm just joking!). 

 

About others things, well, let's see what will happen.

But don't forget that she didn't want to marry him in the first place and he put her under pressure... hence she kind of accepted his proposal. In order to persuade herself that she made the right decision, she convinced herself with these points. Fact is that she didn't want to marry him, so that's true that her feelings were not so deep for him. She barely knew him (3 weeks/one month) and after his proposal, they got married one month later. So he was after her and not the other way around. She never seduced him or even faked any feeling towards him. She was quite genuine, when she refused first his proposal. And his proposal looked like a business deal: nothing romantic at all. 

[juli®]

3 hours ago, Moroodliin said:

  This is what i think too. He was in love and wanted to live happy life with her. But you know the pressure from daddy, and his life experience made him this way. If he wasnt in love, he could have married any rich girl and be even more rich as his dad said. 

 

I am married for 13 years and met my dh 14 years ago. I have never been in abusive relationship. But i dont think he beat her for 5 years straight, might be wrong. Usually people are happy for first 1 or 2 years and argument here and there since they are very 2 different people to make a home together. 

 

Also i am little bit inclined to think IW is such a monster you wrote. If he was punching her so badly like you said, there is gonna be lot of broken bones and scars and she wouldnt argue with him that fiercely, would she after 5 years ? I am not defending the abuser in any way. Just writing my POV.  

 

Now about korean society, they are very much about patriarchy system from many dramas i watched. Most of rich wives are almost locked at home and shopping and some rich wives meeting and nothing else. Mari is in exact same situation. 

I'd love to see him a lead role in melo or any good drama soon too.

I think he thought himself capable of having this life with her, but, as I said, in the end, the traumas he passed took control of his actions. I think he is, yes, in love with her, but the question is, because does she look like his mother or herself? Let's know when he finds the fake WHK. I don't get the idea that no abusive man can redeem himself and change, there are more things in the human mind than we can understand. Most of all don't change, but as I've never lived an abusive relationship, I can not just throw stones and say that KIW is not able to change.

 

This is debatable, since recently a novel happened here in Brazil in which the protagonist raped the wife on the wedding night. And the story was about domestic violence and he was the abusive husband, with beating scenes shown on TV. But it may have been so between KIW and YMR, they may have had a happy time until the abuses began.

 

If he had hit the YMR the way he punched the fence she would not be alive any more because he bent and broke the fence!

 

I'm anxious to know how the author will end this drama, considering Korean society.

 

2 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

But don't forget that she didn't want to marry him in the first place and he put her under pressure... hence she kind of accepted his proposal. In order to persuade herself that she made the right decision, she convinced herself with these points. Fact is that she didn't want to marry him, so that's true that her feelings were not so deep for him. She barely knew him (3 weeks/one month) and after his proposal, they got married one month later. So he was after her and not the other way around. She never seduced him or even faked any feeling towards him. She was quite genuine, when she refused first his proposal. And his proposal looked like a business deal: nothing romantic at all. 

 

I disagree of you, you underestimate KIW. She was not forced into marriage, she wanted to marry him despite the short time they knew each other. In fact, she saw him as the savior she needed at that point in her life. Perhaps she has thought that she would fall in love for him with time, KIW is not any man, the drama itself makes it clear that he is popular with women, had many suitors, dr. Ha said he's still very popular among them ... She never seduced him on purpose, that's true, but there was a will to marry. She just didn't know how he was, since besides her not being of his social environment, he is mysterious, not even the rich women as he imagine him violent like that.

 

And once again I'm going to have to disagree, there was romanticism on his part because she still said that "there are other women more suitable for you", but he replied that they were not her, YMR, that he wanted her.

 

2 hours ago, Moroodliin said:

Also this is a drama. Many characters involved. I'd love to be peaceful about it. I have seen very young IW witnessed his mommy's death and he said he was beaten so many times too. I feel sympathy for him too. I bet many others feel the same too. Doesnt mean i am supporting his wife beating tendency. 

 

About Hae Ra, i feel like she is gonna do a lot harm to YMR in the future. I wouldnt say she is the reason HK fell out of love with the doctor. I would need to see more to reach that conclusion. 

Also even doctor said just once Ha Kyung. He is always reminded of Ha Kyung when he meets YMR.  Seems next week they would live together i suppose. Cant wait to see next episodes. 

Don't remind me, poor child, his life was not easy. I wonder if the father gives the same treatment to the youngest son, Kang In-Sang, do we have a future abuser?

 

About JHR, I agree. 

 

I don't buy the SJW's love for YMR, I still find it as bizarre, weird, sick as KIW's madness. He immortalized his wife in the face of another woman to have a second chance with her! So much so that later he regrets what he did, fallen in the corridor of the hospital. I wonder where's the medical ethics?

[bebebisous33]

2 hours ago, juli® said:

 

I disagree of you, you underestimate the KIW. She was not forced into marriage, she wanted to marry him despite the short time they knew each other. In fact, she saw him as the savior she needed at that point in her life. Perhaps she has thought that she would fall in love for him with time, KIW is not any man, the drama itself makes it clear that he is popular with women, had many suitors, dr. Ha said he's still very popular among them ... She never seduced him on purpose, that's true, but there was a will to marry. She just didn't know how he was, since besides her not being of his social environment, he is mysterious, not even the rich women as he imagine him violent like that.

 

And once again I'm going to have to disagree, there was romanticism on his part because she still said that "there are other women more suitable for you", but he replied that they were not her, YMR, that he wanted her.

Did she ask him to marry her? No. Like you even pointed out, she replied that there were other women more suitable for him which shows to me that she had never marriage in her mind. And if you look at the proposal, I see no romantic gesture or words from his part.

• First, he doesn't ask her if she wants to marry him like any man would do. He just put the rings on the table without saying anything.
• Her reaction: She is surprised which KIW doesn't understand. He only asks her why. He wonders why she is surprised. 
• He is quite direct: "What's so surprising? The ring? or the marriage?" 
• She explains that they don't know each other so well (less than a month since their first meeting). Then she wonders why he is proposing with a ring, and not saying anything else. Notice that he never says that he wants to marry her because he loves her. Does he confess his love for her? No. She is definitely resisting him hence he is not pleased at all. Look at his facial expression.  He looks quite annoyed. He doesn't even look into her eyes, when she explains her surprise and hesitation. That's why he stands up and declares in front of her that this will be the first and last time that he will go on his knee. He is forced to lower himself in front of her. His words illustrate his huge ego and pride. He considers himself superior to her. Her reluctance bothers him as he expected, she would agree very quickly. Why? His reason is simple: all this time, many women wanted to marry him hence he thought, she would act like the others but she is not. After getting on his knees, she actually moves away from him. He ignores her discomfort. He just takes her hand and tells her that they are getting married in a month at this hotel. Notice that he still doesn't ask her if she wants to marry him. He already gives her an order. She explains that she has an exhibition in a month and here we have the reason why KIW wanted to rush the marriage. He knew that she would become famous and he couldn't keep her by his side if she showed her new paintings. Out of selfishness, he rushed for a marriage. And even his words: "From the moment I first saw you, I wanted to marry you." Even here, his selfishness is palpable with the repetition of the pronoun "I" as subjects! YMR is here the object ("you") Notice that she is not allowed to say anything. He uses his mother in order to blackmail her emotionally as he knows what her mother means to her...  "Please take it" = here we have another order since he uses the imperative form. He still gives order in the hand. 
• That's why I said that he forced her to marry him. Sure, he doesn't beat her here... but his rudeness and lack of consideration are already visible. He doesn't accept a no for answer. She always tries to find a point to refuse.
• She never agreed immediately... She even said that she couldn't marry him yet due to her mother. I never saw anything romantic the way he proposed, even with the reply you quoted. She showed surprise, reluctance, her work as painter to reject his proposal. Time was used twice as an excuse (they barely know each other, she has an exhibition) which KIW refused. So he totally overlooked her objection and her interest.
• He didn't confess his love for her, he didn't ask her to marry him... he didn't say that he wanted to marry her for love. From the start, he just ignored YMR's words and he never asked her if she loved him. Love was never a topic during the proposal that's why I think that the reasons she gave to SJW why she married KIW were reasons she thought afterwards... in order to convince herself that she made the right decision.

 

Yes, we will never agree with each other. With all your points (like f. ex. YMR is easily swept away, she never loved her husband etc.) you give me the impression that in your eyes, YMR is the culprit for his violence. She never loved him, she ran away from him, she never really tried to change him. KIW is like that because the poor man had a rough childhood and became like that because of his father... if YMR had loved him very much, then he would have been a normal husband. You turn the perpetrator into a victim... And what would you say if YMR had died after getting beaten by him?

 

[zenya22]

8 hours ago, Moroodliin said:

I am married for 13 years and met my dh 14 years ago. I have never been in abusive relationship. But i dont think he beat her for 5 years straight, might be wrong. Usually people are happy for first 1 or 2 years and argument here and there since they are very 2 different people to make a home together. 

 

Also i am little bit inclined to think IW is such a monster you wrote. If he was punching her so badly like you said, there is gonna be lot of broken bones and scars and she wouldnt argue with him that fiercely, would she after 5 years ? I am not defending the abuser in any way. Just writing my POV.  

 

Now about korean society, they are very much about patriarchy system from many dramas i watched. Most of rich wives are almost locked at home and shopping and some rich wives meeting and nothing else. Mari is in exact same situation. 

You are talking about relationships with a normal men. Yes he beat her for 5 years and that does not matter how long he beat her, he did. The actor is really very good in portraying the obssesive abusive personality. It is not about difference of making a home together and not about arguments here and there. It is about ownership, imprisonment, mental, emotional and physical abuse. He put a gun to her head and warned her that if she flies he is going to shoot. Do normal men beat their partners, threaten them with a gun, imprison them because the woman opened her mouth? She has bruises all over her body. And yes the drama did not show broken bones etc because then it will become a medical drama which is not the focus here. The focus is on the psychological thriller/suspense of the running away and the chase. It is was what the J drama which this was adapted from focused on as in the movie "Sleeping with The Enemy." but whether they showed broken bones or not the issue is he beat her.  And she should not argue with him fiercely that she would stay silent that if she did, it is ok for her to be beaten because she argued? What kind of a man who can't even listen to an argument with his wife and beats her instead because it is her fault that she defended her issues or opened her mouth and said her pov.... what kind of a man is he? Ask that of any real man and they will tell exactly what kind of a man he is and it will not be a compliment to IW because normal men have wives, sisters, mothers women friends whom they care for and respect and would not want to see beaten. 

 

IW is a very disturbed mentally unstable person and it is also implied here that he killed a person with the approval of his father. He needs treatment and learn how to care about another being, that beating, intimidating and imprisoning another is not a show of love. That is how we can be compassionate with him. For him to unlearn the bad behaviors, mental and emotional beliefs and habits inorder to live a better life he needs treatment and away from the person he is obsessed with. 

 

How about the woman he beat mercilessly, should we not show compassion for her?  She can live peacefully too with or without a partner and she also needs psychological help. 

 

Now your argument here is to compare the women in other dramas of rich people and their wives are locked up. I don't know which dramas you are talking about , I have never seen one but even if there was such a drama I would still say that is abuse whether Ma Ri is in the same situation or not. 

 

We all have compassion for IW so we want him to get better and so hopefully the drama will place him in a mental facility away from people he can hurt to receive treatment where he can see that he can be strong on his own and live a good life without his obsession  as a crutch. 

 

As for the doctor and Mari, we shall see what happens.  

[rocher22]

I like how JW and MR are honest to eachother.

They make small mistakes but, then they say it to eachother.

 

That hug was so safe and warm. 

And, the more she leaned her head on JWs shoulder, the

calmer she became.

The same how her face became softer while she was looking

at JW, even though the one on the other side of the table was IW.

[tiMadam]

@bebebisous33 I know you started to explain the flowers meaning on each ep and not sure if you continued (have not back read) your analysis of the flowers as it relates to the story.

 

Also, does anyone know where we can see some of the painting? Thanks in advance

[juli®]

On 3/25/2019 at 8:41 PM, bebebisous33 said:

Did she ask him to marry her? No. Like you even pointed out, she replied that there were other women more suitable for him which shows to me that she had never marriage in her mind. And if you look at the proposal, I see no romantic gesture or words from his part.

• First, he doesn't ask her if she wants to marry him like any man would do. He just put the rings on the table without saying anything.
• Her reaction: She is surprised which KIW doesn't understand. He only asks her why. He wonders why she is surprised. 
• He is quite direct: "What's so surprising? The ring? or the marriage?" 
• She explains that they don't know each other so well (less than a month since their first meeting). Then she wonders why he is proposing with a ring, and not saying anything else. Notice that he never says that he wants to marry her because he loves her. Does he confess his love for her? No. She is definitely resisting him hence he is not pleased at all. Look at his facial expression.  He looks quite annoyed. He doesn't even look into her eyes, when she explains her surprise and hesitation. That's why he stands up and declares in front of her that this will be the first and last time that he will go on his knee. He is forced to lower himself in front of her. His words illustrate his huge ego and pride. He considers himself superior to her. Her reluctance bothers him as he expected, she would agree very quickly. Why? His reason is simple: all this time, many women wanted to marry him hence he thought, she would act like the others but she is not. After getting on his knees, she actually moves away from him. He ignores her discomfort. He just takes her hand and tells her that they are getting married in a month at this hotel. Notice that he still doesn't ask her if she wants to marry him. He already gives her an order. She explains that she has an exhibition in a month and here we have the reason why KIW wanted to rush the marriage. He knew that she would become famous and he couldn't keep her by his side if she showed her new paintings. Out of selfishness, he rushed for a marriage. And even his words: "From the moment I first saw you, I wanted to marry you." Even here, his selfishness is palpable with the repetition of the pronoun "I" as subjects! YMR is here the object ("you") Notice that she is not allowed to say anything. He uses his mother in order to blackmail her emotionally as he knows what her mother means to her...  "Please take it" = here we have another order since he uses the imperative form. He still gives order in the hand. 
• That's why I said that he forced her to marry him. Sure, he doesn't beat her here... but his rudeness and lack of consideration are already visible. He doesn't accept a no for answer. She always tries to find a point to refuse.
• She never agreed immediately... She even said that she couldn't marry him yet due to her mother. I never saw anything romantic the way he proposed, even with the reply you quoted. She showed surprise, reluctance, her work as painter to reject his proposal. Time was used twice as an excuse (they barely know each other, she has an exhibition) which KIW refused. So he totally overlooked her objection and her interest.
• He didn't confess his love for her, he didn't ask her to marry him... he didn't say that he wanted to marry her for love. From the start, he just ignored YMR's words and he never asked her if she loved him. Love was never a topic during the proposal that's why I think that the reasons she gave to SJW why she married KIW were reasons she thought afterwards... in order to convince herself that she made the right decision.

 

Yes, we will never agree with each other. With all your points (like f. ex. YMR is easily swept away, she never loved her husband etc.) you give me the impression that in your eyes, YMR is the culprit for his violence. She never loved him, she ran away from him, she never really tried to change him. KIW is like that because the poor man had a rough childhood and became like that because of his father... if YMR had loved him very much, then he would have been a normal husband. You turn the perpetrator into a victim... And what would you say if YMR had died after getting beaten by him?

 

 

 

She didn't ask but accepted. I agree that she never thought of marrying him, as they had known each other a short time ago, which explains a greater romanticism on his part. But it still has romanticism. Didn't he kneel to ask her to marry him? He said it was the first and last time he did it (after he did it again when he forced her pointing the gun at his head).

 

Very few people are confident enough to confess love without proper encouragement. Even more the KIW.

 

This face shows me determination, not no pleased.

 

He looks straight into her eyes after that. 

 

The guy is coveted by women, how will he not have huge ego? He is a man, not a saint. It is natural for him to feel this way, he knows his power of attraction to women, and most of them are interested in the power of his family and money, seeing his beauty as a toast. Any man, in his place and having been raised like him, would feel the same way. He has the cynical way of the environment in which he lives, he considers himself superior to all women, but I don't think he felt that way with her, he said the other women were not her. He considers her different from the others women. 

 

"Please take it"= this is a request. "Please"

 

"She explains that she has an exhibition in a month and here we have the reason why KIW wanted to rush the marriage" Interesting, I didn't notice that, just now that you spoke and it's true, they got married before the exhibition. Even so, not to say that she would be famous, he could not guess. He is not an art critic, many students graduate, but not everyone is famous for his paintings, or talented at it.

 

I don't see it that way, she could have said no, after all when she blocked her finger with the other hand, he did not push her hand to force the ring on her finger.

 

KIW was created to be strong, and to be strong is to never confess your weakness. His own father made him like this. Which brings us to the scene of the threat with the revolver. Do you really think he would kill her? Never, it is dependent on it!

 

And I think in this scene there are no innocents, she could have refused and told that she didn't love him, so she did not want to get married. What was he going to do, hit her? In the hotel? In front of SJW (he's back there with WHK, her savior ). 

 

The more I think about KIW's relationship with YMR, and the development of the drama, more I think he loves her in his way. Because, you think, he has many women at his disposal but as Md. Ha says, once again, he is totally devoted to YMR, his wife.

 

Oh, but that's not my point, you are mistake, I never and I would never did said that. I have never found that YMR is not to blame for KIW's behavior. Read my posts once again. 

[anony12345]

Looks like we still have people in this thread that want the victim to go back to the abuser, to make the abuser feel better. What odd morality. 

[zenya22]

1 hour ago, anony12345 said:

Looks like we still have people in this thread that want the victim to go back to the abuser, to make the abuser feel better. What odd morality. 

It is frightening, so very, very frightening 

 

Quote

 

I know you started to explain the flowers meaning on each ep and not sure if you continued (have not back read) your analysis of the flowers as it relates to the story.

 

 

 

@tiMadamI agree with you. @bebebisous33 your flower analysis are sorely missed and needed for a more enlightened discussion thank you

 

 

[MidnightRain]

I kinda get why people are so supportive of In-Wook, it's the same reason why Twilight's Edward and You's Joe are so popular. Somehow some people believe that being obsessed, possessive, and crazy are ~desirable traits in a lover. It's not though. Also, In-Wook's childhood trauma should not serve as an excuse for his treatment and abuse of Ma-Ri. 

 

I've missed two weeks worth of episodes because I am really not impressed with current Ma-Ri's acting. Does she get any better? 

[juli®]

14 minutes ago, MidnightRain said:

I kinda get why people are so supportive of In-Wook, it's the same reason why Twilight's Edward and You's Joe are so popular. Somehow some people believe that being obsessed, possessive, and crazy are ~desirable traits in a lover. It's not though. Also, In-Wook's childhood trauma should not serve as an excuse for his treatment and abuse of Ma-Ri. 

 

I've missed two weeks worth of episodes because I am really not impressed with current Ma-Ri's acting. Does she get any better? 

Edward? I did not understand... 

 

Of course no but this is a fiction, not reality. Aside from that, it's a thriller, he has to find her and take her back to get more exciting.

 

Let's see these next eps. 

[zenya22]

On 3/25/2019 at 5:31 AM, Moroodliin said:

I am an asian and watching it with asian mindset. As i know, asian wives try to fix the problem and try to understand and help and support our husband. I also know few women who lived with such husbands and never left, but husbands arent rich in their situation and heard so many rumors about wealthy wives being beaten and regular patients at hospitals yet stay with their husbands. Maybe i never seen such monsters up close and never met with one, i couldnt imagine the pain or fall out of love. I usually hates abusers in dramas, i dont know why i want to try to understand IW and fix him to be better men.

Abuse happens everywhere in all countries of the world, in all social strata and financial status, abuse of partners, children and others. Many wives who are abused not only in Asia but from all over the world stay in abusive relationships for many reasons including the inability to get support for themselves to leave the relationship because of social, religious and family beliefs and pressure and thus abuse is perpetuated on children who most likely will perpetuate the abuse like IW. It is ok to want to understand IW and fix him to be a better man, as compassionate person, it is good. However, IW has to want to fix himself. One can be compassionate and want IW to be a better person but the fixing has to come from him. No one can fix another person, because the person who needs "fixing" is the only one who can fix himself/herself. For  example if one is overweight to the extent of being unhealthy and a loving relative or even a doctor wants the overweight person to lose weight has no bearing on the overweight person losing weight unless he/she wants to  lose weight and does something about it. And if he/she keeps eating the food that he is addicted to and gives many excuses for the behavior, she/he will not lose weight and compassion for that person losing weight will not do anything. Same thing with IW, Ma Ri going back to him does not solve or make him a better person because Ma Ri is his obsession it only prolongs his abusive/obsessive personality even if he gets a new wife to obsess about the abusive/obsessive personality won't get fixed.  The most compassionate thing to do is to wish the drama will end with him alive and in a place where he can learn he needs fixing and fix himself. Ma Ri too needs fixing to be a better person, she also needs support for her choice of leaving her abusive husband. 

 

Sadly, no one can change the behavioral tendencies of an abusive personality. Most abusers claim that they are willing to change, but overall, biologically they cannot.

[tulip934]

2 hours ago, anony12345 said:

Looks like we still have people in this thread that want the victim to go back to the abuser, to make the abuser feel better. What odd morality. 

Yeah ! throwing a rabbit in the tiger cave to see how it killing & eating to have fun