[Drama 2019] Love in Sadness, 슬플 때 사랑한다

[zenya22]

On 4/21/2019 at 6:23 PM, juli® said:

There are abusers and abusers. Not everyone should be treated in the same way because not everyone is equal, there is much more to be found than the human mind can understand

No one is the same as another, we are all unique in whatever place we find ourselves in, however an abuser is an abuser anyway one looks at it and abusers can use their childhood  history or whatever experience they had that caused their behavior as an excuse to continue with their abuse which is not acceptable. As I said in my earlier post, that IW's childhood past has been written about from the beginning and we all talked about it, we sympathize with him and some hearts even bled for him. However, IW or any other man who have gone through horrid childhood can't make that as an excuse to beat other people, their wives or children. Because at some time they will have to pay for those actions one way or the other. That is the way life goes. Whatever actions one takes there is a consequence and the consequence does not necessarily mean that it is coming from outside of the person because the worse of the consequence usually comes from inside of the person, the emotional/psychological ruination of the person by himself. IW has put himself through misery and suffers most when he beats his wife, yet he does not know when to stop, but why does he do it, because he had a bad childhood? So he should be treated differently and excused for his actions? Life does not operate that way, life will treat you back the way you treat it. For me, as I have said many times before, I would want for IW's ending at a place where he can get therapy and start his life with a clean slate. There are many people who have gone through worse than what KIW experienced  in real life, or people who ruined their own lives when they were at the top of their game but somehow it was when they were at the bottom of the pit that they found the inspiration and the strength to repair their lives and work themselves back to the top and stronger. Being back with Ma Ri is not the answer for IW because it is like giving him back what he is addicted to, what he is obsessed about and continue down the path to hell. No, I don't want that for him neither do I want that for Ma Ri. Happiness is not dependent on another, happiness is from and within oneself. When IW realizes that the source of his happiness or sorrow is himself and was never dependent on Ma Ri, it will be the start of his healing and possibility of a new life. 

 

 I  do agree though,  that the character of Ma Ri needs to be given a smarter outlook, leave both men, take her mother and go as far away as she can, get some therapy herself and start her life fresh. That is the best ending for her and so does JW who in my opinion, needs therapy himself.

 

Quote

I didn't see this, I saw that he was shot and fell into the water. If he doesn't die from the shot, he will certainly drown. 

@juli®You are right, I am sorry, I looked at the preview again and it is different from the first episode where IW was shown feet down first as if he jumped but the preview shows him going down the water on his back holding a gun. I wonder if he will rise from the water and shoot someone.

 

 

 

[dolorisbrady]

On 4/21/2019 at 6:31 PM, juli® said:

 @dolorisbrady I must agree with that. But this behavior is expected of KIW, not SJW. And the YMR said he loved KIW so he would give up the idea of killing himself, but soon after, he dumped KIW on his own and went with SJW! Seriously, I was very angry. What a useless scene! Why do all that, then? It only counted on the performance of the actors, especially RSY.

Omg RSY is Killing it ! . I have never seen evil played so intensely. He has definitely stolen the Show in this drama. Not to take anything away from JHW he is one of my Favorite actors. When  hes on screen it's hard to get unglued from the TV lol. PHB I wasnt to fond of  her acting, I felt from early on that they should have stayed with PHN . But even with all the craziness it has been a great drama. Im looking forward to the Finale this weekend.

 

 

 

Seriously though Wth did YMR think was going to happen when she went back? 

That it was going to strawberry fields forever? Not! .The thing that really set him off , Is when she told him she loved SJW, good God he just imploded. 

 

 

[PhoenixEmpress]

Hey all!! I have been following the drama and this thread closely.Never posted before now though.

 

I just wanted to say that even though I don't condone IW's abuse towards Mari,I found him to be the most fascinating character in the drama.There is a certain energy and vigour in his scenes.Be it in his interactions with JHR or with his dad.Even his OST,'Nightmare',is extremely powerful.Compared to that YMR and SJW kinda bored me.

 

I tend to enjoy characters who are intelligent,compelling and who have more than one shade.It doesn't matter if they are black,white or grey.I guess this is the reason why I enjoyed IW's scenes.Even though he is a villain,he had multiple shades and most importantly he is extremely intelligent.He can see through lies and through people.Even when he went against his father,he made sure he had some leverage over him.

 

Then we have YMR and SJW,our lovebirds who are supposed to be the tormented protagonists.But I can't just put up with their stupidity.What was SJW thinking when he locked horns with KIW? I know that was supposed to be his heroic moment but it only put Mari in a soup.And Mari knew that IW has her mom who is her Achilles heel.Also provoking IW wasn't exactly the wisest decision because it eventually blew up SJW's secret and affected his reputation.

 

Due to this drama's comparisons with Let Me Introduce Her,I binge watched that drama and noticed the differences despite the similar plotlines.Both the doctor and the abused wife were sensible and smart and I enjoyed how they took down the abusive hubby.

The husband over there was worse than KIW.But he ended up in therapy for his actions.

This drama has more emotions but that one was more practical.

 

Also something has been bugging me about SJW.He knew what kind of a woman his late wife WHK was.He knew she was cheating on him.Yet he never confronted her even once.Now what do I call this? Being a doormat or being spineless? Any individual with minimum self respect would confront his/her partner upon being cheated and try to discuss what went wrong and what further steps should be taken.But this guy did nothing.SJW and WHK had zero compatibility.He is more of an idealist poet and she was a shallow person.So the only plausible reason for him to fall for her was because he was smitten by her pretty face.I believe she married him because he was well to do and could provide her a secure life while she went around cheating on him.

 

IW's obsession with his mom's face has been pointed out many times in the drama but SJW's obsession with his wife's face was never discussed much.He went ahead and recreated his wife's face on another woman.

IW himself pointed that out on SJW's face when he discovered the truth.

 

In YMR's case I understand why she got so attached to SJW.It is because he was the first person to show kindness and affection to her after years of abuse.

 

As someone mentioned above the most convincing ending would be for both IW and SJW to get into therapy.

YMR needs to get away from both the men and rediscover her individuality.

 

Anyways lets see how the drama concludes.I don't want IW to die though.

 

 

 

 

 

[juli®]

On 4/22/2019 at 7:27 PM, zenya22 said:

No one is the same as another, we are all unique in whatever place we find ourselves in, however an abuser is an abuser anyway one looks at it and abusers can use their childhood  history or whatever experience they had that caused their behavior as an excuse to continue with their abuse which is not acceptable. As I said in my earlier post, that IW's childhood past has been written about from the beginning and we all talked about it, we sympathize with him and some hearts even bled for him. However, IW or any other man who have gone through horrid childhood can't make that as an excuse to beat other people, their wives or children. Because at some time they will have to pay for those actions one way or the other. That is the way life goes. Whatever actions one takes there is a consequence and the consequence does not necessarily mean that it is coming from outside of the person because the worse of the consequence usually comes from inside of the person, the emotional/psychological ruination of the person by himself. IW has put himself through misery and suffers most when he beats his wife, yet he does not know when to stop, but why does he do it, because he had a bad childhood? So he should be treated differently and excused for his actions? Life does not operate that way, life will treat you back the way you treat it. For me, as I have said many times before, I would want for IW's ending at a place where he can get therapy and start his life with a clean slate. There are many people who have gone through worse than what KIW experienced  in real life, or people who ruined their own lives when they were at the top of their game but somehow it was when they were at the bottom of the pit that they found the inspiration and the strength to repair their lives and work themselves back to the top and stronger. Being back with Ma Ri is not the answer for IW because it is like giving him back what he is addicted to, what he is obsessed about and continue down the path to hell. No, I don't want that for him neither do I want that for Ma Ri. Happiness is not dependent on another, happiness is from and within oneself. When IW realizes that the source of his happiness or sorrow is himself and was never dependent on Ma Ri, it will be the start of his healing and possibility of a new life. 

 

 I  do agree though,  that the character of Ma Ri needs to be given a smarter outlook, leave both men, take her mother and go as far away as she can, get some therapy herself and start her life fresh. That is the best ending for her and so does JW who in my opinion, needs therapy himself.

 

@juli®You are right, I am sorry, I looked at the preview again and it is different from the first episode where IW was shown feet down first as if he jumped but the preview shows him going down the water on his back holding a gun. I wonder if he will rise from the water and shoot someone.

 

 

 

Yep! That's why he cries when beat her. Crazy guy! 

[juli®]

On 4/25/2019 at 7:48 AM, PhoenixEmpress said:

Hey all!! I have been following the drama and this thread closely.Never posted before now though.

 

I just wanted to say that even though I don't condone IW's abuse towards Mari,I found him to be the most fascinating character in the drama.There is a certain energy and vigour in his scenes.Be it in his interactions with JHR or with his dad.Even his OST,'Nightmare',is extremely powerful.Compared to that YMR and SJW kinda bored me.

 

I tend to enjoy characters who are intelligent,compelling and who have more than one shade.It doesn't matter if they are black,white or grey.I guess this is the reason why I enjoyed IW's scenes.Even though he is a villain,he had multiple shades and most importantly he is extremely intelligent.He can see through lies and through people.Even when he went against his father,he made sure he had some leverage over him.

 

Then we have YMR and SJW,our lovebirds who are supposed to be the tormented protagonists.But I can't just put up with their stupidity.What was SJW thinking when he locked horns with KIW? I know that was supposed to be his heroic moment but it only put Mari in a soup.And Mari knew that IW has her mom who is her Achilles heel.Also provoking IW wasn't exactly the wisest decision because it eventually blew up SJW's secret and affected his reputation.

 

Due to this drama's comparisons with Let Me Introduce Her,I binge watched that drama and noticed the differences despite the similar plotlines.Both the doctor and the abused wife were sensible and smart and I enjoyed how they took down the abusive hubby.

The husband over there was worse than KIW.But he ended up in therapy for his actions.

This drama has more emotions but that one was more practical.

 

Also something has been bugging me about SJW.He knew what kind of a woman his late wife WHK was.He knew she was cheating on him.Yet he never confronted her even once.Now what do I call this? Being a doormat or being spineless? Any individual with minimum self respect would confront his/her partner upon being cheated and try to discuss what went wrong and what further steps should be taken.But this guy did nothing.SJW and WHK had zero compatibility.He is more of an idealist poet and she was a shallow person.So the only plausible reason for him to fall for her was because he was smitten by her pretty face.I believe she married him because he was well to do and could provide her a secure life while she went around cheating on him.

 

IW's obsession with his mom's face has been pointed out many times in the drama but SJW's obsession with his wife's face was never discussed much.He went ahead and recreated his wife's face on another woman.

IW himself pointed that out on SJW's face when he discovered the truth.

 

In YMR's case I understand why she got so attached to SJW.It is because he was the first person to show kindness and affection to her after years of abuse.

 

As someone mentioned above the most convincing ending would be for both IW and SJW to get into therapy.

YMR needs to get away from both the men and rediscover her individuality.

 

Anyways lets see how the drama concludes.I don't want IW to die though.

 

 

 

 

 

I really liked you review. 

 

KIW was prepared for his own father to be like that. 

 

As he was the natural successor to the conglomerate, his father had prepared him since he was a little boy, including sending him to an MBA at Harvard. KIW's attitudes are natural to whoever was created to be so. The father told him "if anyone betrays you, make him understand that he will not do it and go unpunished," "cut off the other's head, before they cut off your head". KIW learned very well what his father taught.

 

SJW is not very smart. Especially when confronted with KIW.

 

I totally agree with you. And I loved it when KIW told SJW about his obsession with WHK's face in that hospital. It is incomprehensible that YMR wants to stay with SJW knowing this. And that chat from which the SJW now sees YMR even with WHK's face does not convince me. Also because if YMR stays with SJW, which I think is going to happen, it will "inherit" WHK's gallery and work on it. And how will it be with customers? They don't even know WHK is dead. Will she introduce herself as YMR or WHK? And how is she going to say it's the YMR if you have WHK's face? Will she assume to be the WHK even though she is not?

 

I still find this romance between YMR and SJW very forced, foolish, even.

 

In fact, YMR attached to SJW because he saw her the way her is, unlike KIW, who always saw only the face. Kindness and affection KIW demonstrates by the YMR. He beats her when she opposes him (which is not right, of course!). 

 

For me, the most convincing end would be for the three to die. Since the drama began with sadness, the end should also follow this line. 

[juli®]

On 4/22/2019 at 11:41 PM, dolorisbrady said:

Omg RSY is Killing it ! . I have never seen evil played so intensely. He has definitely stolen the Show in this drama. Not to take anything away from JHW he is one of my Favorite actors. When  hes on screen it's hard to get unglued from the TV lol. PHB I wasnt to fond of  her acting, I felt from early on that they should have stayed with PHN . But even with all the craziness it has been a great drama. Im looking forward to the Finale this weekend.

 

 

 

Seriously though Wth did YMR think was going to happen when she went back? 

That it was going to strawberry fields forever? Not! .The thing that really set him off , Is when she told him she loved SJW, good God he just imploded. 

 

 

For me, he is the only one who is making it worth seeing the drama because the YMR2 and SJW couple is very boring. I like the performance of JHW. PHB has bloomed in the end, I have enjoyed her performance.

[juli®]

Spoiler

 

Seriously, it's scary! 

[Firefly]

I only interested in endgame at this moment. 

[0ly40]

Someone know if Ma Ri died? Jebal!!

[bebebisous33]

40 minutes ago, 0ly40 said:

Someone know if Ma Ri died? Jebal!!

Spoiler

She didn't. She got shot. After hurting her, KIW killed himself, because he witnessed that she had protected the doctor risking her own life.

 

[0ly40]

25 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

  Hide contents

She didn't. She got shot. After hurting her, KIW killed himself, because he witnessed that she had protected the doctor risking her own life.

 

Many thanks @bebebisous33 Then, later I will watch it with subs.

[Firefly]

So happy ending for the doctor and Ma Ri with Ha Kyung face?

[zenya22]

21 hours ago, juli® said:

For me, he is the only one who is making it worth seeing the drama 

agree, for the last episodes, It is RSY and his performance of the obsessed man that keeps me watching. I would have ditched this long ago maybe by the 30th but I watched because of RSY. But you did get the ending, IW died. The J drama was more compassionate of the obsessed husband. He ended in prison for shooting his wife and the high school girl he saved and befriended when he saved her from bullies became his friend and visited him in prison. As for IW, it does fit the psych personality of an obsessed person to kill the person they are obsessed with then commit suicide themselves....  a murder/suicide however, realistically, JW the dumb doctor would have been dead long ago too. 

Kudos to RSY. I hope he gets an award for his performance. He carried the show on throughout. He deserves the best of awards. 

[juli®]

Spoiler

Hey, guys, Did KIW really love YMR? I think, yes, he proved that he did, he shot his own eye (good thing he missed it) to prove he was not going to focus on her face anymore. I've always said he really loved her.

 

 

I was expecting this ending, with KIW dying and YMR and SJW living happily ever after. I knew I wouldn't like it. YMR had to die or be ending alone. In the end, I think the writer wanted to please Korean viewers. KIW didn't deserve to end up as the only villain in the drama and certainly SJW is not, and never was, a hero.

 

[juli®]

Spoiler

17 hours ago, zenya22 said:

agree, for the last episodes, It is RSY and his performance of the obsessed man that keeps me watching. 1 I would have ditched this long ago maybe by the 30th but I watched because of RSY. 2 But you did get the ending, IW died. The J drama was more compassionate of the obsessed husband. He ended in prison for shooting his wife and the high school girl he saved and befriended when he saved her from bullies became his friend and visited him in prison. As for IW, it does fit the psych personality of an obsessed person to 3 kill the person they are obsessed with then commit suicide themselves....  a murder/suicide however, realistically, 4 JW the dumb doctor would have been dead long ago too. 

Kudos to RSY. I hope he gets an award for his performance. He carried the show on throughout. He deserves the best of awards. 

@zenya22

1 Yep, me too. Actually, I would have dropped the drama when it focused only on the YMR and SJW couple. Nothing against the actors, but the characters are very zzzzz, I can not stand them. Really. RSY was the one who made me put up with this drama with his magnificent performance, I really hope he wins all the prizes available in his country, maybe in Asia. I think now he's on a different level from other South Korean actors. No need to prove that you can make a villain. 

 

2 I wish all three had died, the ending was so clichéd and unfair to KIW. In the end, he proved that he loved YMR indeed.

 

3 I've always said this, that he was not going to kill YMR, the object of his obsession. And that if he killed, he would kill himself next. KIW is not a cowardly man, he's a sick man.

 

4 Dumb like YMR, they really fix. YMR complained that KIW was lying to her, but she also lied several times to save her lover. He promised KIW that he would stay with him, but in the end he would not even let her near him and would only kick him in the responses to his appeals. The only thing in YMR's favor, in that case, is that she had credit since KIW always lied to her.

 

*****************

@zenya22

I thought he was going to kill his father, but he didn't. There he proved that he wasn't a totally monster at all and that he wasn't like his father. I think his father treated him so badly because of jealousy of his dead wife/mother. I think Kang Il-Gook resented sharing his wife's attention with his young son.

 

I hated the ending, extremely cliché, I expected that ending but I wanted a different. I keep imagining YMR working at Kyung Art Gallery with WHK's face and clients, especially the regulars, not even knowing that the real one is dead. In the end, KIW came out as the only villain in the drama and SJW the hero. 

 

YMR admitted what we all already knew, she never loved KIW, she married him in search of safety. And he always knew that, he tried in all possible ways to win her love. That was another reason for him to beat her. Unjustifiable, of course, but we have to remember that he is psychologically upset, so it was the expected attitude.

 

I never really liked SJW, I was always irritated by the mania of reciting poetry, etc., but it was my personal feeling. However, when he pointed KIW's gun at his own head on Russian roulette to prove his love for YMR, then he totally lost it with me, I found it incredible that he did that, made YMR go through such distress, repeat the same KIW attitude, in a dumb competition with the crazy KIW.

 

JHR was another character who I didn't understand the attitude in the final eps. She started hating YMR, declaring her love for SJW, then trying to seduce KIW, but in the end, she was once again the friend of SJW and even helped him and YMR! Imprehensible.

 

Anyway, for me, this drama had no surprises, it ended as I thought it would end, I just hoped it was different, but I knew that would be very difficult. In the end, the writer wanted to please the audience. The villain died in the end and the heroes (Hero's SJW have nothing!) Had their happy ending. Disappointing, but expected.

 

Although I agree that there is no justification for a man who is physically and biologically stronger than we are, women, beating a woman for whatever reason, KIW couldn't be treated like any scumbag abuser who beats for pleasure. I have seen several such characters, bandits and scoundrels, who beat their wives because they felt pleasure in control them. It wasn't KIW, he had traumas that cannot be ignored. I put him in that small percentage that the scientific article you linked here, talks about.

 

Funny how his stepmother got away with the money . She left Kang Il-Gook! And the son, Kang In-Sang, went with his mother.

 

I didn't understand why KIW got those headaches after he hurt his eye. In fact, thanks to YMR, the shot didn't hit his eye.

 

[Firefly]

ouch. What a stupid writing so far. They have rode on RSY's performance and his story with his wife and  yet never really tried to fix him and redeem him. Just killed him off. He loves Ma Ri so much, he cant live without her, so writer couldnt make any other ending but kill him. Since writer showed he beat Ma Ri black& blue , he couldnt fix their problems and rather bring obsessed doctor which was a safe choice for feminist viewers. A poor abused boy and a husband never got love and support from his own wife and his psychological problems fixed. I have seen so many dirty scumbags and villains got redeemed before in dramas. What a slap on face for tortured souls and men from broken families. As a person who married to a man from broken home, it wasnt so easy to make him a family man he is today.  Obsessive doctor got his happy ending and getting love from a woman who has his ex wife face. i bet he is happy living with his own mellow Ha Kyung now. Drama reminded me a bit of What happened in bali which is one of my ultimate faves. When it comes to love triangle, rich families breaking their children and their lives and a bit stupid female lead. Same ending as What happened in bali would have been rather good here. Seems everyone here in thread loves the doctor, i feel like he is same self centered jerk of In Wook from What happened in bali. If the ending was same, three of them dying, we would have been left with what if... 

[tiMadam]

How is that love?

He did not died to save her. When someone sacrifice their lives for you is because they are trying to save you.

Iw killed himself because he could not live without ymr. This is not love for someone. He is not or ever been in love with Ymr.  First he would have to understand what is love.  I understand that we may have different ways of showing love and different levels of love but killing yourself for that reason is not love.  

 

 

 

[juli®]

Not me. I always said that this doctor was a decoy.

 

Spoiler

6 hours ago, Moroodliin said:

ouch. What a stupid writing so far. They have rode on RSY's performance and his story with his wife and  yet never really tried to fix him and redeem him. Just killed him off. He loves Ma Ri so much, he cant live without her, so writer couldnt make any other ending but kill him. Since writer showed he beat Ma Ri black& blue , he couldnt fix their problems and rather bring obsessed doctor which was a safe choice for feminist viewers. A poor abused boy and a husband never got love and support from his own wife and his psychological problems fixed. I have seen so many dirty scumbags and villains got redeemed before in dramas. What a slap on face for tortured souls and men from broken families. As a person who married to a man from broken home, i wasnt so easy to make him a family man he is today.  Obsessive doctor got his happy ending and getting love from a woman who has his ex wife face. i bet he is happy living with his own mellow Ha Kyung now. Drama reminded me a bit of What happened in bali which is one of my ultimate faves. When it comes to love triangle, rich families breaking their children and their lives and a bit stupid female lead. Same ending as What happened in bali would have been rather good here. Seems everyone here in thread loves the doctor, i feel like he is same self centered jerk of In Wook from What happened in bali. If the ending was same, three of them dying, we would have been left with what if... 

2 hours ago, tiMadam said:

How is that love?

He did not died to save her. When someone sacrifice their lives for you is because they are trying to save you.

Iw killed himself because he could not live without ymr. This is not love for someone. He is not or ever been in love with Ymr.  First he would have to understand what is love.  I understand that we may have different ways of showing love and different levels if love but killing yourself for that reason is not love.  

 

 

 

He shot into her own eye to convince her that he would not care about her face anymore, that his face would only stay in his memory, and that he wanted her back anyway. An extreme attitude for those who are desperate to lose their love. KIW is sick, he will never love like other people, for him, love and death go hand in hand. Many poets of Romanticism, like Lord Byron, were like this.

[zenya22]

5 hours ago, Moroodliin said:

They have rode on RSY's performance and his story with his wife and  yet never really tried to fix him and redeem him.

 

 Drama reminded me a bit of What happened in bali which is one of my ultimate faves. When it comes to love triangle, rich families breaking their children and their lives and a bit stupid female lead. Same ending as What happened in bali would have been rather good here

@MoroodliinThat was the ending I was hoping for, IW's redemption even in the orginal J version where the abusive husband went to prison and a friend visiting him showed some hope of redemption for the bad guy but here he just got killed off. LMIH also had redemption for the bad guy. I actually thought, since this was a K drama that redemption would be the ending. I did not see the drama "What happened in Bali", but what is the ending. I am curious and just want to imagine that this ending in this drama would be the same. Thanks 

[juli®]

22 minutes ago, zenya22 said:

@MoroodliinThat was the ending I was hoping for, IW's redemption even in the orginal J version where the abusive husband went to prison and a friend visiting him showed some hope of redemption for the bad guy but here he just got killed off. LMIH also had redemption for the bad guy. I actually thought, since this was a K drama that redemption would be the ending. I did not see the drama "What happened in Bali", but what is the ending. I am curious and just want to imagine that this ending in this drama would be the same. Thanks 

@zenya22 I saw some scenes of LMIH and I found the husband a lot more scumbag than KIW. Much more, actually. And yet, I heard that he redeemed himself.