[Drama 2019] Love in Sadness, 슬플 때 사랑한다

[zenya22]

ZZZZZZZZ....I guess because they made it into 40 eps that now they have to use fillers in episodes 21 to maybe the 30's episodes. I was so looking forward to these weekends episodes but the only episode I enjoyed is the exchange between HR and KIW at the beginning of episode 21. The doctor and Ma Ri scenes were draggy. At least, we hear the doctor admit that he did intentionally create HK's face on Ma Ri because he wanted to start over. He blames himself for not confronting his wife regarding her affair. That is not fair. Ma Ri is not Ha Kyung. I wish that Ma Ri took that train and left town away from them all. Regardless of what HR or Dr Ha did, Ha Kyung was a grown woman who made a choice to cheat on her husband. He Ra and Dr Ha did not force her. She is not blameless either, she was willing and she lied. As for JW, he also chose to "not see nor hear" and then decides he wants to "start over" and so creates his wife's face on MR? The original J drama was 10 eps so the story was tight around the major characters, but 40 episodes, can't consist of just IW chasing MR around and around therefore we get to see the doctor have a breakdown, something he has not done since his wife died in the 5th episode and the gradual unhinging of KIW. I hope Ma Ri does not end with anyone. 

[bebebisous33]

I have not watched the episode 11 entirely but one thing is sure: I wished, KIW's father would die. He is such a ruthless tyrant.

[tulip934]

Next week KIW will find out MR 's dead ! I want to see what's next for MR & SJW ?

both father and son ( KIW) are  strong abusers ,if women need money can close to them ( TO GET SOME) if not running away far from them , everyone has only one life ! we ourselves  have to make it happiness without tears 

Yeah ! HR seduces KIW ...just 1st time  ...but if  HR trying couple more times may be it'll be ok ( I like it )

Sorry for SJW  !! He has a bad friend  Dr Ha " You're  a workaholic , I enjoy life " SJW working too much to forget someone stole his wife to enjoy life ! SJW is not a monk or an  eunuch so he has the right to start over again ! 

thanks the  writers and LOVE AND SADNESS team , I love Saturday until this drama ending , it doesn't matter how long 

[bebebisous33]

@zenya22 I agree with you that these two episodes had less suspense and tension. Today, I can't write much but I'll just say that I still don't believe that WHK had affairs with different men, just like she had an abortion because JHR has always been determined to see WHK as wench. Just like YMR showed him that WHK chose SJW from the start and it was not a coincidence. Sure, she did cheat on him but the question is: why? I hope, we get some answer in the long run. To me, WHK is still a mystery. 

Concerning doctor Ha, he reminds me a lot of a certain insect: a grasshopper/cicada. I'll explain more about it tomorrow. My next analysis will be about the influence of Greek mythology in this drama and the second self-portray of YMR. @MidnightRain @avondale16 @ktcjdrama

[juli®]

8 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

I have not watched the episode 11 entirely but one thing is sure: I wished, KIW's father would die. He is such a ruthless tyrant.

Spoiler

I think he will die, it seems that he felt something in the car. And he has high blood pressure.

 

[juli®]

12 hours ago, zenya22 said:

ZZZZZZZZ....I guess because they made it into 40 eps that now they have to use fillers in episodes 21 to maybe the 30's episodes. I was so looking forward to these weekends episodes but the only episode I enjoyed is the exchange between HR and KIW at the beginning of episode 21. The doctor and Ma Ri scenes were draggy. At least, we hear the doctor admit that he did intentionally create HK's face on Ma Ri because he wanted to start over. He blames himself for not confronting his wife regarding her affair. That is not fair. Ma Ri is not Ha Kyung. I wish that Ma Ri took that train and left town away from them all. Regardless of what HR or Dr Ha did, Ha Kyung was a grown woman who made a choice to cheat on her husband. He Ra and Dr Ha did not force her. She is not blameless either, she was willing and she lied. As for JW, he also chose to "not see nor hear" and then decides he wants to "start over" and so creates his wife's face on MR? The original J drama was 10 eps so the story was tight around the major characters, but 40 episodes, can't consist of just IW chasing MR around and around therefore we get to see the doctor have a breakdown, something he has not done since his wife died in the 5th episode and the gradual unhinging of KIW. I hope Ma Ri does not end with anyone. 

I thought he was going to spend the night with her at her house. And I was kind, shocked!  

 

It's been a long time since I said it was intentional. If I'm not mistaken, he'd said it before. I always said that relationship between them was bizarre.

 

I think they did 't fit, I don' t know how they got married. Choosing a plan is not the way to choose a husband.

 

That's I talking about. 

[juli®]

Spoiler

Guys, let's talk about JHR / KIW. I think she was attracted to KIW because she came from a rejection and wants to be cared for someone. So here comes KIW, who is desperately searching for her own wife, I think she was envious of his dedication and would like to be in YMR's place, for she has no idea how violent and terrifying he is. What do you think?

 

I loved the scene of KIW, the stepmother and, especially, the father. I loved what KIW said to his stepmother. I mean, she was his father's secretary in the company and as soon as KIW's mother died, she jumped into Kang In-Gook's bed. Imagine how KIW felt. The father did not even respect the death of his wife. 

 

Did Kang In-Gook really hit the KIW in front of everyone, including the employees?

 

[Doloris B]

40 minutes ago, juli® said:

  Hide contents

Guys, let's talk about JHR / KIW. I think she was attracted to KIW because she came from a rejection and wants to be cared for someone. So here comes KIW, who is desperately searching for her own wife, I think she was envious of his dedication and would like to be in YMR's place, for she has no idea how violent and terrifying he is. What do you think?

 

I loved the scene of KIW, the stepmother and, especially, the father. I loved what KIW said to his stepmother. I mean, she was his father's secretary in the company and as soon as KIW's mother died, she jumped into Kang In-Gook's bed. Imagine how KIW felt. The father did not even respect the death of his wife. 

 

Did Kang In-Gook really hit the KIW in front of everyone, including the employees?

 

I Agree with you , But she is mostly attracted to him because of his money and how powerful he is. KIW Stepmom needed to be put her place, Shes always prancing around like she's the real madam of the house, When she's nothing but a lowly mistress.  KIW dad , Did you see the look KIW gave him ? That's why he stopped . He could have stomped him like the piece of trash he is,  But he went about it a nice/nasty way . In a indirect way he was telling him , Dad I'm not a child anymore don't press your luck,  Now if you want me to whip your richard simmons I have plenty of witnesses. Honestly bullets could not kill his dad he needs to be gased.

[juli®]

On 3/31/2019 at 3:34 PM, Doloris B said:

I Agree with you , But she is mostly attracted to him because of his money and how powerful he is. KIW Stepmom needed to be put her place, Shes always prancing around like she's the real madam of the house, When she's nothing but a lowly mistress.  KIW dad , Did you see the look KIW gave him ? That's why he stopped . He could have stomped him like the piece of trash he is,  But he went about it a nice/nasty way . In a indirect way he was telling him , Dad I'm not a child anymore don't press your luck,  Now if you want me to whip your richard simmons I have plenty of witnesses. Honestly bullets could not kill his dad he needs to be gased.

I didn't notice that look you mentioned, I'll see the scene again.

 

Yes, KIW's stance was a total challenge. It was as if he said, "Dad, do not underestimate me." I don't think he will not regret if his old man dies and God help his stepmother and his brother. The stepmother will soon be kicked out of the mansion by KIW.

[bebebisous33]

The influence of Greek and Roman mythology and literature in Love in Sadness

In this drama, the writer used two legends from the Greek mythology: the death of Hyacinth and Adonis which led both to the birth of flowers: the hyacinth and the anemone. Hyacinth, as a Spartan prince and mortal was Apollo’s lover despite their different nature (human vs. god). Yet Zephyrus, the god of wind, got jealous and killed him with his disc.

the death of Hyacinth; painting from Alexandre Kisseliov (19th Century) Here you can see the disc thrown by Zephyrus

The god of the sun tried to heal his lover and it was in vain. In order to always remember his lover Hyacinth, Apollo created a new flower with Hyacinth’s blood: the Hyacinth.

Then in the episodes from this week, we were told about the legend of Adonis and the anemone. SJW explained that Venus fell in love with Adonis due to Cupid and Ares got jealous and killed Adonis with a boar. 

However, the writer made a huge mistake because he mixed Greek names with Roman names. Romans used to call Venus, the goddess of love, beauty, sex and fertility but Ares is the Greek name of the god of war. Why do the Roman and Greek have the same mythology but different names? After the conquest of Greek cities in ancient times (Antiquity) by the Roman Empire, the Romans adopted the Greek religion, however they changed their names: Aphrodite became Venus, Ares became Mars, Zeus Jupiter aso. Our plastic surgeon was actually referring to the work of a Roman author, Ovid. However, in Ovid’s work Venus fell in love with Adonis by accident due to Cupid. The latter was playing with his arrows, when one of his arrows was punctured in her chest. Her wound was so deep that she fell in love with Adonis, when he appeared.

Venus, Adonis and Cupid painted by Annibale Carracci in 1595 

However, the story of Adonis in Ovid doesn’t mention any jealousy as the reason for his death. It is just said that Adonis loved hunting and one day, he got killed by a boar while hunting alone. On the other hand, the the existence of Adonis in the Greek mythology is explained differently. https://www.greekmyths-greekmythology.com/myth-aphrodite-adonis/First, Aphrodite fell in love with the handsome man due to her own trick. Then either Artemis wanted revenge or Ares got jealous of Adonis because he was Aphrodite’s lover too. Anyway, in Greek and Roman mythology, the goddess of love used Adonis’s blood in order to create the flower anemone, a memorial of their love.

As you can see, the writer from Love in Sadness mixed Roman and Greek mythology together. Nevertheless both stories have so many similarities. First both stories deal with the loss of a loved one, with a tragic death where the surviving person has trouble to accept the death of their lover. Furthermore, the gods create a flower (Hyacinth and Anemone) in order to remember their loved one. Finally, the writer used the aspect of jealousy in both stories which explains why he made a mistake with the name because he mixed Roman tradition with Greek mythology. And now, if we take a close look, we will notice that our main characters (KIW, YMR, WHK and SJW) share the same experience. YMR fakes her death in order to escape from her abusive husband, WHK got involved in an accident and got killed which affected her husband SJW a lot. SJW gave YMR his wife’s face which could be compared to the gesture of the god: SJW created a flower, just like Aphrodite and Apollo did. On the other hand, KIW has not created anything yet, he is still living in his memories: he has distorted version of his marriage with YMR. Maybe, the beholder should perceive KIW as the jealous person and not the lover, if we had to compare him to characters from the legends as he is really jealous. YMR loved painting more than anything and he knew that, hence he allowed her to paint but only at her studio and she was not allowed to show any creation to others. Concerning WHK, SJW and doctor Ha, the latter embodies definitely the jealous one who destroyed WHK in the end due to his jealousy and negligence. As conclusion, we understand better why this drama was called love in sadness because all these legends and our drama deal with tragic love, death, pain and sadness.

However, this is not the only reference to Greek literature and mythology. In the episodes from this week, we could finally perceive the true personality of doctor Ha Sung Ho. Remember that in my former analysis, I had compared Joo Hae Ra to a praying mantis, SJW to a butterfly and flower and KIW to a cobra.

episode 12

While watching this scene, the doctor’s words made me think of the famous fable “La cigale et la fourmi” (The cicada and ant) from Jean de la Fontaine. The latter is a French fabulist from the 17th Century who wrote many fables. He used as source of inspiration, the Greek author, Aesop (an author from ancient times, Antiquity).

Here is the fable written by Jean de La fontaine

La Cigale, ayant chanté                         The gay cicada, full of song 
Tout l’Été,                                                  All the sunny season long, 
Se trouva for dépourvue                         Was unprovided and brought low, 
Quand la bise fut venue.                         When the north wind began to blow ; 
Pas un seul petit morceau                      Had not a scrap of worm or fly, 
De mouche ou de vermisseau.               Hunger and want began to cry ; 
Elle alla crier famine                                 Never was creature more perplexed. 
Chez la Fourmi sa voisine,                       She called upon her neighbour ant, 
La priant de lui prêter                                And humbly prayed her just to grant 
Quelque grain pour subsister                   Some grain till August next ; 
Jusqu’à la saison nouvelle.
Je vous paierai, lui dit-elle,                        “I’ll pay, ” she said, “what ye invest, 
Avant l’Oût, foi d’animal,                             Both principal and interest, 
Intérêt et principal                                       Honour of insects –and that’s tender. ” 
La Fourmi n’est pas prêteuse ;                   The ant, however, is no lender ; 
C’est là son moindre défaut.                      That is her least defective side ; 
« Que faisiez-vous au temps chaud ?       “But, hark ye, pray, Miss Borrower,

                                                   ” she cried, “What were ye doing in fine weather ? ” 
Dit-elle à cette emprunteuse.                “ Singing . . .  nay,! look not thus askance, 
— Nuit et jour à tout venant                     To every comer day and night together.” 
Je chantais, ne vous déplaise.  “ Singing ! I’m glad of that ; why now then dance. ” 
— Vous chantiez ? j’en suis fort aise.
Eh bien ! dansez maintenant. »

(translation from http://www.la-fontaine-ch-thierry.net/onegramu.htm

Notice that the cicada doesn’t like working, she is busy enjoying life and in time of need, the cicada visits the ant for help. The behavior of the doctor Ha Sung Ho reminds us a lot of the cicada as both share the same philosophy.

Spoiler

a cicada

 

They are carefree and even selfish as they let people work for them believing that generosity is a given. In Ha’s eyes, SJW is like an ant forgetting that SJW is working in order to support him and his wife as well. Only after WHK’s car accident, HSH started working like crazy accepting all different kind of patients, even risking the patients’ life. HSH even believes that their office is working so well because he made so many surgeries, but in my opinion, HSH is overestimating himself as he is overlooking SJW’s reputation. SJW was invited to a radio program, he even wrote a book… people from far away are coming to his office. Yet, HSH has never really considered SJW’s work as worthy to be mentioned because he has a different approach: SJW is working for his patients so that the latter can start enjoying their life, while HSH only worked out of guilt and pride. He never cares for his patients in reality. His words can be compared to the singing of the cicada: HSH always tries to praise himself in front of SJW. He is really jealous of SJW and not just because the latter married WHK. HSH could study because of SJW and his family, SJW was definitely the better student. Even after the big revelation, HSH shows his true face: he doesn’t feel sorry that he had an affair with WHK, he just reveals his jealousy and “hatred” for SJW. It would be interesting to see how HSH lives after leaving SJW’s office.

As conclusion, our characters from the drama Love in Sadness are all embodied by animals, except YMR: HSH the cicada, SJW the butterfly, KIW the cobra and JHR the praying mantis. But more importantly, it is clear that the writer was inspired by authors from the antiquity: Greek and Roman writers (Aesop, Ovid, aso).

@zenya22 @ktcjdrama @MidnightRain @avondale16 @lu09 @tiMadam

[Firefly]

I watched raw. From my understanding WHK loved the doctor and his friend at the same time. She loved the friend more, decided to marry to the doctor based on his family. Also without IW had less screen time, those episodes were boring. 

[juli®]

The best scenes were between KIW and JHR. They held this drama on Saturday. KIW was fantastic! He arrived at JHR's house with (real) blood in his hands. I thought he was going to spend the night there with her. I just don't understand why he tells everything to JHR when he knows she's going to tell SJW and MD Ha? 

 

I cannot stand this vibe of "poor, defenseless female" YMR anymore. 

[tiMadam]

@bebebisous33 Thanks for the analysis of the greek/roman mythology in love in sadness.  

17 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

It is just said that Adonis loved hunting and one day, he got killed by a boar while hunting alone.

This line reminds me of KIW since he loves to hunt.   

 

We  can say that Dr. Ha does not love WHK and just wanted to be one up on SJW.  Since he was not able to win over him with wealth, education, good parents ect, so he needed to have this one thing over SJW.  Maybe that is why he had WHK called him yeobo (i'm not sure which ep maybe last week).

 

SJW's parents taking care of both JHR and Dr. Ha shows how they raised SJW to be kind and caring person.  

 

I was going through my pictures and I found one that reminded of the painting with the butterfly.

 

There were two scenes that shows some growth for YMR:  one when she turned down JHR and when she figured out she was being followed (so they are one up on KIW here ).

[zenya22]

Quote

Guys, let's talk about JHR / KIW. I think she was attracted to KIW because she came from a rejection and wants to be cared for someone. So here comes KIW, who is desperately searching for her own wife, I think she was envious of his dedication and would like to be in YMR's place, for she has no idea how violent and terrifying he is. What do you think

@juli® here you go...., my thoughts and many may not agree... read below  

 

Re-watched the episodes and yeah, skipped over some parts. What stands for me is episode 21 the IW/HR scenes very well done by RSY and WBN... perfectly

 

There are certain things I don't like in He Ra such as her "undying obsessive love" for JW, so that she does and says things she should not have said or done to hurt JW and the women he cares about, but as the episodes move forward, I find myself liking parts of her, as in her practicality, her directness and loyalty. I actually think that at one point her loyalty, protectiveness and caring will transfer to IW without compromising her protectiveness for JW. In their encounter at her house,  HR was able to connect to the sensitive and vulnerable parts of IW. She was trying to manipulate and seduce him yet what she said actually touched IW's painful memories because she also was sincerely describing about herself, that her parents died early and she never got to know or feel her parents love and she also knew the bitter feelings of rejection, from a man she loved for so very long who never even looked her way. His facial expression changed into the face of a wounded man as he allowed HR to touch his hair and then stopped her by holding her hand and yet she continued to touch his chest as she said, "I know how that feels" and tears ran down IW's cheeks. For the first time we see a crack in IW's armor and a peek at his tender spots. For one moment he was not the angry desperately obsessive man but the hurt little boy helplessly looking at his mother being beaten by his father. I am glad he stopped the kiss. He Ra seems to understand this vulenerable side of him even though she does not know anything about his personal life except that he is obsessed with his wife. However, she also empathizes with what hurts him because she also is going through the pain of rejection. I hope that He Ra will come to understand and see IW as a friend who needs  help and will be the one to rescue him from death and from himself which will also become her redemption and his. I really hope she will turn from a mantis to the flower she described herself as. I would not mind if this K version will tweak the ending and IW and HR will become friends to more than...They can both go together for therapy 

 

The other scene that got my attention was the encounter between IW and the stepmother and IW and his father. Now, we learn that the stepmother was a secretary who became the conniving mistress of IW's dad. I am deducing here that the stepmother had something to do with beating/punishment of IW's mother. That her "running away" may just be what the chairman believes but not necessarily true. That as a secretary, that stepmother may have known that the chairman was very possesive of his wife and she spread rumors which she knows will reach the chairman's ears and therefore result in the beating of IW's mom. She may even have created scenarios where IW's mom was caught by the chairman talking to a man which could have been an innocent encounter, yet totally misunderstood by possesive husband. Just from what she said about hearing rumors about IW's wife leaving him, I think she did the same with IW's mom. I am glad IW put her in her place. What was interesting was the father telling IW that he was not going to tremble in fear and be guilty seeing the face of his dead wife in the wife of his son. Yet, his reactions to Ma Ri was very telling that he was bothered when he attacks Ma Ri whenever he can and blames IW's softness and naivety on Ma Ri. He also said "your wife left you to be in the arms of another man" .... I think he was describing himself, that he probably accused IW's mom of running away to be with another man and also it grates him that his wife would rather kill herself than be with him. IW's face showed defiance and anger but also hurt. When he was in the car his driver/guard/secy asked him how his hand was and his answer "at least you see this". Man.... IW needs love and therapy ASAP. And MR and JW are more in danger now that the father is involving himself in IW's personal business. He wants the gallery investigated. The gallery is in the name of JW and HK but HR runs it and dumb MR is posing as HK. Dad also was clenching his fist and we see the hand blanched with some bluish spots. I think, maybe he will have a stroke. He has high blood pressure.

 

Any how this Ma Ri is so opposite the first Ma Ri, where did that resiliency and grit go? The first Ma Ri knew what she wanted and definite about her hopes and dreams and was not afraid to tell IW about it. The first Ma Ri (PHN) in their argument where IW told her that she could have everything and anything she wanted but just stay by his side always and paint inside her studio in his mansion as he embraced her. Ma Ri pushed him away as she tried to explain that is not what she wanted, that IW was suffocating her and she needs to breathe. She tried to explain that she needs to live as her own person and wants to contibute to the world with her artwork. He said he was protecting her. Ma Ri said she did not need his protection but was unable to articulate that what she needed was the support of her husband to his wife Ma Ri because IW was then getting angry specially when she pushed him away and instead mentioned that she was not IW's mom and that escalated into a beating. But many times MR tried to explain what she wanted even after that. This 2nd Ma Ri even after she realized that she looked exactly like JW's  wife because he created his wife's face on her and many times called her Ha Kyung. She left an obsessive husband who wanted to "protect" her because he thought she was fragile like his mother and beat her if she bucked that "protection" and she goes into another relationship who also thinks he needs his protection because she was like a "fragile bird" and mistakes her for his wife everytime he goes into an emotional remembrance of his wife and calls MR ... Ha Kyung. I would have thought that after that breakdown when JW was shaking her and asking "why did you do this to me Ha Kyung" that MR would have been the one to leave the house quietly. Her being there would have felt an intrusion, that she was a third wheel. JW needed space to grieve and express his anger and regrets. I think that would have been what the first Ma Ri would have done. Instead she waits for him to tell her to move out and then like a "hurt" child, she runs outside in the storm which awakens JW from his shocked stupor and runs after her in the rain removing his shoes...play the violins??? really??? Sure JW can start over but before that he needs time to get over his dead wife...what happens when in their passionate times of intimacy he suddenly calls MR, "Ha Kyung"... so give him time to grieve, and MR needs to plan how elude and thwart IW or have a face off with him and win. JW and MR need some therapy too. People in this drama can give good business to some psych therapist 

[juli®]

1 hour ago, zenya22 said:

@juli® here you go...., my thoughts and many may not agree... read below  

 

Re-watched the episodes and yeah, skipped over some parts. What stands for me is episode 21 the IW/HR scenes very well done by RSY and WBN... perfectly

 

There are certain things I don't like in He Ra such as her "undying obsessive love" for JW, so that she does and says things she should not have said or done to hurt JW and the women he cares about, but as the episodes move forward, 1I find myself liking parts of her, as in her practicality, her directness and loyalty. I actually think that at one point her loyalty, protectiveness and caring 2will transfer to IW without compromising her protectiveness for JW. In their encounter at her house,  HR was able to connect to the sensitive and vulnerable parts of IW. She was trying to manipulate and seduce him yet what she said actually touched IW's painful memories because she also was sincerely describing about herself, that her parents died early and she never got to know or feel her parents love and she also knew the bitter feelings of rejection, from a man she loved for so very long who never even looked her way. His facial expression changed into the face of a wounded man as he allowed HR to touch his hair and 3then stopped her by holding her hand and yet she continued to touch his chest as she said, "I know how that feels" and 4tears ran down IW's cheeks. For the first time we see a crack in IW's armor and a peek at his tender spots. For one moment he was not the angry desperately obsessive man 5but the hurt little boy helplessly looking at his mother being beaten by his father. I am glad he stopped the kiss. He Ra seems to understand this vulenerable side of him even though she does not know anything about his personal life except that he is obsessed with his wife. However, she also empathizes with what hurts him because she also is going through the pain of rejection. I hope that He Ra will come to understand and see 6IW as a friend who needs  help and will be the one to rescue him from death and from himself which will also become her redemption and his. I really hope she will turn from a mantis to the flower she described herself as. I would not mind if this K version will tweak the ending and IW and HR will become friends to more than...They can both go together for therapy 

 

The other scene that got my attention was the encounter between IW and the stepmother and IW and his father. Now, we learn that the stepmother was a secretary who became the conniving mistress of IW's dad. I am deducing here that the stepmother had something to do with beating/punishment of IW's mother. That her "running away" may just be what the chairman believes but not necessarily true. That as a secretary, that stepmother may have known that the chairman was very possesive of his wife and she spread rumors which she knows will reach the chairman's ears and therefore result in the beating of IW's mom. She may even have created scenarios where IW's mom was caught by the chairman talking to a man which could have been an innocent encounter, yet totally misunderstood by possesive husband. Just from what she said about hearing rumors about IW's wife leaving him, I think she did the same with IW's mom.7 I am glad IW put her in her place. What was interesting was the father telling IW that he was not going to tremble in fear and be guilty seeing the face of his dead wife in the wife of his son. Yet, his reactions to Ma Ri was very telling that he was bothered when he attacks Ma Ri whenever he can and blames IW's softness and naivety on Ma Ri. He also said 8"your wife left you to be in the arms of another man" ....9 I think he was describing himself, that he probably accused IW's mom of running away to be with another man and also it grates him that his wife would rather kill herself than be with him. 10IW's face showed defiance and anger but also hurt. When he was in the car his driver/guard/secy asked him how his hand was and his answer 11"at least you see this". Man.... IW needs love and therapy ASAP. And MR and JW are more in danger now that the father is involving himself in IW's personal business. He wants the gallery investigated. The gallery is in the name of JW and HK but HR runs it and dumb MR is posing as HK. Dad also was clenching his fist and we see the hand blanched with some bluish spots. I think, maybe he will have a stroke. He has high blood pressure.

 

Any how this Ma Ri is so opposite the first Ma Ri, where did that resiliency and grit go? The first Ma Ri knew what she wanted and definite about her hopes and dreams and was not afraid to tell IW about it. The first Ma Ri (PHN) in their argument where IW told her that she could have everything and anything she wanted but just stay by his side always and paint inside her studio in his mansion as he embraced her. Ma Ri pushed him away as she tried to explain that is not what she wanted, that IW was suffocating her and she needs to breathe. She tried to explain that she needs to live as her own person and wants to contibute to the world with her artwork. He said he was protecting her. Ma Ri said she did not need his protection but was unable to articulate that what she needed was the support of her husband to his wife Ma Ri because IW was then getting angry specially when she pushed him away and instead mentioned that she was not IW's mom and that escalated into a beating. But many times MR tried to explain what she wanted even after that. This 2nd Ma Ri even after she realized that she looked exactly like JW's  wife because he created his wife's face on her and many times called her Ha Kyung. She left an obsessive husband who wanted to "protect" her because he thought she was fragile like his mother and beat her if she bucked that "protection" and she goes into another relationship who also thinks he needs his protection because she was like a "fragile bird" and mistakes her for his wife everytime he goes into an emotional remembrance of his wife and calls MR ... Ha Kyung. I would have thought that after that breakdown when JW was shaking her and asking "why did you do this to me Ha Kyung" that MR would have been the one to leave the house quietly. Her being there would have felt an intrusion, that she was a third wheel. JW needed space to grieve and express his anger and regrets. I think that would have been what the first Ma Ri would have done. Instead she waits for him to tell her to move out and then like a "hurt" child, she runs outside in the storm which awakens JW from his shocked stupor and runs after her in the rain removing his shoes...play the violins??? really??? Sure JW can start over but before that he needs time to get over his dead wife...what happens when in their passionate times of intimacy he suddenly calls MR, "Ha Kyung"... so give him time to grieve, and MR needs to plan how elude and thwart IW or have a face off with him and win. JW and IW need some therapy too. People in this drama can give good business to some psych therapist 

1 I've always enjoy JHR, I think she's right in a lot of things.

 

2 I think I will not have time for this because I believe that in the next 4 eps he will finally find the YMR.

 

3 KIW was taught by his father not to show weakness, especially in front of a woman. I wish he'd spend the night with JHR, I confess. To spice things up.

 

4I've always said that he is a man who is destroyed and needs therapy, but I still think that this will only happen if he has his obsession back, that is, YMR. He does anything but try to get her back.

 

5 Oh, do not remind me of that child... 

6 I doubt that. IW will not let anyone in... Perhaps just YMR. Perhaps!

 

7 I'm glad too. And he was heavy with her. So that she had no doubt of what he considers her. I think that's why I like KIW. His life was never easy, yet he survived. His only weakness is the YMR.

 

8 I held my breath when he said that. KIW is going to kill SJW when he finds out ... 

9 It could be... I thought the same thing.

10 I rewatched the scene and, yes, he cannot stand his father talking about his mother. In fact, he himself said that soon as the YMR ran away. He blames his father for his mother's death. This is not an issue to be overcome.

11 He feels abandoned, not even the father noticed the bruise. In fact the father must have seen, but he didn't said anything. And I think KIW is going crazy. He told YMR that he would go crazy if she abandoned him. When she runaway he "begged her" to come back to comfort him. In the midst of all this mess of his life, having her by his side is what comforts him. Too bad he could not deal with childhood traumas and discounting in on the one person who did well.

 

TO BE CONTINUED... 

[zenya22]

9 hours ago, juli® said:

8 I held my breath when he said that. KIW is going to kill SJW when he finds out ... 

Actually, his violence towards MR will worsen, he said, "I will  kill them both." he did not say, "I will kill him". My tweaked version of the ending for KIW actually is much more compassionate ending for KIW compared to the ending of the original. His "weakness is  Ma Ri" is blaming Ma Ri for KIW's obsessive behavior but instead to state that KIW's weakness is his "obssesive behavior" puts the responsibility right smack where it belongs, on KIW and when he realizes that he is responsible for his behavior, will be the start of his desire to change in my opinion. 

[juli®]

6 hours ago, zenya22 said:

Actually, his violence towards MR will worsen, he said, "I will  kill them both." he did not say, "I will kill him". My tweaked version of the ending for KIW actually is much more compassionate ending for KIW compared to the ending of the original. His "weakness is  Ma Ri" is blaming Ma Ri for KIW's obsessive behavior but instead to state that KIW's weakness is his "obssesive behavior" puts the responsibility on right smack where it belongs, on KIW and when he realizes that he is responsible for his behavior, will be the start of his desire to change in my opinion. 

@zenya22 I don't think he's going to kill YMR because it would not make sense since she's his obsession, he's dependent on her. But to be honest, I think he's really going to die in the end.

[Doloris B]

On 3/31/2019 at 1:27 PM, juli® said:

  Hide contents

Guys, let's talk about JHR / KIW. I think she was attracted to KIW because she came from a rejection and wants to be cared for someone. So here comes KIW, who is desperately searching for her own wife, I think she was envious of his dedication and would like to be in YMR's place, for she has no idea how violent and terrifying he is. What do you think?

 

I loved the scene of KIW, the stepmother and, especially, the father. I loved what KIW said to his stepmother. I mean, she was his father's secretary in the company and as soon as KIW's mother died, she jumped into Kang In-Gook's bed. Imagine how KIW felt. The father did not even respect the death of his wife. 

 

Did Kang In-Gook really hit the KIW in front of everyone, including the employees?

 

Hi Eveyone I'm loving this drama , I went back , Maybe I'm wrong its just a guess , But someone gets shot. I know who it is , But my  mouth is zipped I don't want to spoil it for everybody. If this is  a

Peek into the ending it looks pretty bad.

[juli®]

16 hours ago, zenya22 said:

@juli® here you go...., my thoughts and many may not agree... read below  

 

Re-watched the episodes and yeah, skipped over some parts. What stands for me is episode 21 the IW/HR scenes very well done by RSY and WBN... perfectly

 

There are certain things I don't like in He Ra such as her "undying obsessive love" for JW, so that she does and says things she should not have said or done to hurt JW and the women he cares about, but as the episodes move forward, I find myself liking parts of her, as in her practicality, her directness and loyalty. I actually think that at one point her loyalty, protectiveness and caring will transfer to IW without compromising her protectiveness for JW. In their encounter at her house,  HR was able to connect to the sensitive and vulnerable parts of IW. She was trying to manipulate and seduce him yet what she said actually touched IW's painful memories because she also was sincerely describing about herself, that her parents died early and she never got to know or feel her parents love and she also knew the bitter feelings of rejection, from a man she loved for so very long who never even looked her way. His facial expression changed into the face of a wounded man as he allowed HR to touch his hair and then stopped her by holding her hand and yet she continued to touch his chest as she said, "I know how that feels" and tears ran down IW's cheeks. For the first time we see a crack in IW's armor and a peek at his tender spots. For one moment he was not the angry desperately obsessive man but the hurt little boy helplessly looking at his mother being beaten by his father. I am glad he stopped the kiss. He Ra seems to understand this vulenerable side of him even though she does not know anything about his personal life except that he is obsessed with his wife. However, she also empathizes with what hurts him because she also is going through the pain of rejection. I hope that He Ra will come to understand and see IW as a friend who needs  help and will be the one to rescue him from death and from himself which will also become her redemption and his. I really hope she will turn from a mantis to the flower she described herself as. I would not mind if this K version will tweak the ending and IW and HR will become friends to more than...They can both go together for therapy 

 

The other scene that got my attention was the encounter between IW and the stepmother and IW and his father. Now, we learn that the stepmother was a secretary who became the conniving mistress of IW's dad. I am deducing here that the stepmother had something to do with beating/punishment of IW's mother. That her "running away" may just be what the chairman believes but not necessarily true. That as a secretary, that stepmother may have known that the chairman was very possesive of his wife and she spread rumors which she knows will reach the chairman's ears and therefore result in the beating of IW's mom. She may even have created scenarios where IW's mom was caught by the chairman talking to a man which could have been an innocent encounter, yet totally misunderstood by possesive husband. Just from what she said about hearing rumors about IW's wife leaving him, I think she did the same with IW's mom. I am glad IW put her in her place. What was interesting was the father telling IW that he was not going to tremble in fear and be guilty seeing the face of his dead wife in the wife of his son. Yet, his reactions to Ma Ri was very telling that he was bothered when he attacks Ma Ri whenever he can and blames IW's softness and naivety on Ma Ri. He also said "your wife left you to be in the arms of another man" .... I think he was describing himself, that he probably accused IW's mom of running away to be with another man and also it grates him that his wife would rather kill herself than be with him. IW's face showed defiance and anger but also hurt. When he was in the car his driver/guard/secy asked him how his hand was and his answer "at least you see this". Man.... IW needs love and therapy ASAP. And MR and JW are more in danger now that the father is involving himself in IW's personal business. He wants the gallery investigated. The gallery is in the name of JW and HK but HR runs it and dumb MR is posing as HK. Dad also was clenching his fist and we see the hand blanched with some bluish spots. I think, maybe he will have a stroke. He has high blood pressure.

 

Any how this Ma Ri is so opposite the first Ma Ri, where did that resiliency and grit go? The first Ma Ri knew what she wanted and definite about her hopes and dreams and was not afraid to tell IW about it. The first Ma Ri (PHN) in their argument where IW told her that she could have everything and anything she wanted but just stay by his side always and paint inside her studio in his mansion as he embraced her. Ma Ri pushed him away as she tried to explain that is not what she wanted, that IW was suffocating her and she needs to breathe. She tried to explain that she needs to live as her own person and wants to contibute to the world with her artwork. He said he was protecting her. Ma Ri said she did not need his protection but was unable to articulate that what she needed was the support of her husband to his wife Ma Ri because IW was then getting angry specially when she pushed him away and instead mentioned that she was not IW's mom and that escalated into a beating. But many times MR tried to explain what she wanted even after that. This 2nd Ma Ri even after she realized that she looked exactly like JW's  wife because he created his wife's face on her and many times called her Ha Kyung. She left an obsessive husband who wanted to "protect" her because he thought she was fragile like his mother and beat her if she bucked that "protection" and she goes into another relationship who also thinks he needs his protection because she was like a "fragile bird" and mistakes her for his wife everytime he goes into an emotional remembrance of his wife and calls MR ... Ha Kyung. I would have thought that after that breakdown when JW was shaking her and asking "why did you do this to me Ha Kyung" that MR would have been the one to leave the house quietly. Her being there would have felt an intrusion, that she was a third wheel. 12JW needed space to grieve and express his anger and regrets. I think that would have been what the first Ma Ri would have done. Instead she waits for him to tell her to move out and then like a "hurt" child, she runs outside in the storm which awakens JW from his shocked stupor and runs after her in the rain removing his shoes...play the violins??? really??? Sure JW can start over but before that he needs time to get over his dead wife...what happens when in their passionate times of intimacy he suddenly calls MR, "Ha Kyung"... so give him time to grieve, and MR needs to plan how elude and thwart IW or have a face off with him and win. JW and MR need some therapy too. People in this drama can give good business to some psych therapist 

12 I agree with everything you said, and I add, the "new" YMR doesn't have the same sophistication as the YMR from the time when her lived with KIW. And this YMR is weak, frightened ... This behavior is not justified, when she lived with KIW, she had more courage.

 

13 I think there's no way SJW can start over again with this YMR because she has WHK's face. What he felt for his wife was too strong to be forgotten, she will always be his shadow.

1 hour ago, Doloris B said:

Hi Eveyone I'm loving this drama , I went back , Maybe I'm wrong its just a guess , But someone gets shot. I know who it is , But my  mouth is zipped I don't want to spoil it for everybody. If this is  a

Peek into the ending it looks pretty bad.

What do you mean, you know? How? When? 

Spoiler

@Doloris B KIW is shot and dies. We have all seen this in first ep. 

 

[zenya22]

3 hours ago, juli® said:

@zenya22 I don't think he's going to kill YMR because it would not make sense since she's his obsession, he's dependent on her. But to be honest, I think he's really going to die in the end.

Obsessive/abusive people's thoughts are not reasonable, and don't make sense,  it is twisted it is more in line with "if I can't have you, no one else can" and realistically as per study done worldwide, 85% of those who try to leave their abusive/obsessive partners die and most are women. And you say "but this is not real" ... sure this is drama but the way it is written, interpreted by actors and presented by the PD is realistic. You think that you know the ending that IW dies but you don't know that, no one knows how the drama will end because only the drama makers know

 

Quote

Hi Eveyone I'm loving this drama , I went back , Maybe I'm wrong its just a guess , But someone gets shot. I know who it is , But my  mouth is zipped I don't want to spoil it for everybody. If this is  a

Peek into the ending it looks pretty bad.

@Doloris B

Spoiler

 

 I think pretty much that everyone already guessed who got shot but I think it is a peek to the beginning of the end and not the end, end. I think from there the suspense,thriller gets more intense