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[Drama 2018-2019] Children of Nobody/Red Moon, Blue Sun, 붉은달 푸른해

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So, given that we've seen a little more of Red Cry and how they seem to operate during these past couple of episodes, I suppose it's time to weigh my opinions in on them again, seeing as how all the cool kids are doing it. XD

 

First of all, I definitely agree with everyone saying that Red Cry's methods are flawed, at best. Killing abusers isn't the answer. At least, not necessarily. I believe a case can be made for killing in self-defense if the child's life is obviously and immediately in danger, but other than that, I definitely think death should not be the first course of action to immediately jump to. As we see with Bitna's mother, some abusive parents don't even realize what they're doing is abuse. They just think they're strict, or toughing up their child, or training them up right, and it was likely done to them as kids, too, so they see nothing wrong with it. Once they realize what they've done and how they've harmed their child, they should be given the chance to change and mend their relationship with their child. And if that can't be done, then their child should be removed to a healthier and safer environment while the parent is dealt with appropriately using the appropriate channels.

 

On that note, though, I've seen some people speculate that Red Cry is this evil, irredeemable monster/organization of monsters. While they may be right with that theory, I somehow suspect that it just won't be that simple. Nothing is ever so black and white, especially not with this show. Personally, I believe that Red Cry truly, genuinely believes they're helping society by doing what they're doing, even though they're going about it in all the wrong ways. We can see that they aren't solely targeting underprivileged families, given that Hajung certainly didn't seem like she was doing badly financially and they didn't let her off the hook, so the theory that they look down on the poorer classes goes out the window. As for killing kids in front of their parents, Hana is really the only outlier in this regard, and her mom was killed in such an unspectacular fashion that I honestly don't think she even realizes her mom is dead; she probably just thinks Mom fell asleep, then she fell asleep, then she woke up in a nice place while Mom is off doing who knows what. As for Bitna, that really was an unfortunate accident; Hajung chose to kill herself when and where she did, and it was just bad luck that she did it in a place that Bitna could see the gristly aftermath of it. And, Red Cry might think, the kid might cry now, but won't they be happier in the long run when their abuser is dead? Certainly Sora didn't shed any tears for her dad when she learned he was dead.

 

After all, isn't a significant chunk of the viewerbase eagerly clamoring for Red Cry to off Hana's father in the next episode? "Oh, I can't wait until he dies, the scum deserves it, etc." Now, the man is a creep of the highest degree and shouldn't be let within 50 feet of Hana, I will grant you, but take a moment and really think about this. Either one has to admit to oneself that Red Cry is at least partially right in what they're doing and that at least some of the people they've killed fully deserved what was coming to them, or none of them did, and none of them should have been killed, not even Hana's sorry excuse for a father. See what I mean by the situation not being as black and white as it first might seem?

 

So this is my current working theory about Red Cry's origins and motivations, provided that Wookyung =/= Red Cry as many theorize. "Red Cry," be they either the founder of this organization or a lone vigilante that has connections, was badly abused as a child, to an extent greater than any we've seen on the show thus far. They waited and waited for their parent(s) to change, for someone to rescue them, for it all to stop, but no one ever did anything, no one cared, and nothing ever changed. Finally, the child could not take it anymore and they snapped, killing their abusive parent(s) in self defense or in revenge or both. As they grew up, they continued to notice the children that fell through the cracks, the ones no one cared to notice or help, least of all the police, who never seemed to be where they were needed the most by the ones who needed them the most, and decided that now that they weren't little and helpless anymore, they would be these forgotten children's champion, the person they had so desperately needed when they were in these children's' position themselves. So they began calling themselves "Red Cry" and amassing a network of like-minded people around them, people who were sick and tired of sitting by and doing nothing while children suffered, or people who realized how horrible they had been to their own children and wanted to make amends in some way. These children are Children of Nobody no longer. They're Red Cry's, and woe betide any tiger that dares to threaten Red Cry's children.

 

(Also, has anyone noticed that as far as we know, the only time a parent is targeted is when the abused child is already dead or verbally and explicitly wishes that their parent were gone? The boy who Jiheon thought committed arson posted online that he planned to kill his father, Sora said it was so much better that her dad was dead [after the fact, true, but she probably had the thought before that life would be much easier if he was out of the picture, even if she didn't explicitly say so onscreen], Bitna told Wookyung that she wished her mother were dead. In all these cases, someone swooped in and gave the kid exactly what they wished for. The only one who doesn't clearly fit this pattern in some way is Hana, but really, who knows who she spoke to and what she said to them before her mother was killed. This all may be coincidence, but I thought I'd share, regardless.)

 

One last thing. Wookyung's made a point of saying multiple times that this Red Cry person (if they are indeed a person) seems to "know her thoughts," like they have the same knee jerk reactions to things and go about approaching problems in a similar fashion. It's like they "get" each other, even though they've never met, as far as she can tell. If this is the case, I think it's possible that, possible wiretapping aside, if Red Cry is a singular person, then they might have a personality quite similar to Wookyung's: passionate, caring, nurturing, protective, unassuming, withdrawn, and quiet, with a hidden, unstable, violent streak. Heck, on that note, everyone's been speculating for weeks that Wookyung has Dissociative Identity Disorder brought on by abuse/trauma, and that she's secretly Red Cry and just doesn't know it. Well, what if that theory was right and wrong at the exact same time? What if the Red Cry identity is an alternate personalty... they're just not Wookyung's? :o

 

Anyway, them's be my disjointed and rambly thoughts. XD Now watch as these theories all collapse in flames with the release of the next episodes, lol. Still, it's fun to speculate, and that's what these forums are for, no? ;) And regardless of what the answer ultimately ends up being, as the saying goes, "Cool motive. Still murder." 

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@cyan5tarlight

Quote

We can see that they aren't solely targeting underprivileged families, given that Hajung certainly didn't seem like she was doing badly financially and they didn't let her off the hook, so the theory that they look down on the poorer classes goes out the window.

Well, I disagree with you on this. CWK suspected that Bit Na was abused 2 years ago, then the accident of her sister happened and CWK was bedridden for one month. During that time, Red Cry approached HJM. The quarrel between CWK and HJM was known among the members of that group. They didn't know the reason but Red Cry could have looked into it. Moreover, it looks to me that no one from that group took CWK's side and wanted to know about the real reason. And Red Cry let the abuse continue for two years. He only reacted, when Bit Na revealed the abuse to CWK with evidence. But Red Cry had not investigated about Bit Na's case at all. Nothing happened for two years and he allowed HJM to participate in these punishments. He never doubted her because she belonged to that upper class. Sure, now she was not spared. Yet, her death occurred differently. Red Cry didn't send a killer but forced her to kill herself which is a little different compared to the first and second case. As for HN, I am now wondering if her biological father is not the one who killed the mother by using Red Cry's association (this is due to the preview we saw).

 

Let just say that LSH ran away from home because she wanted to protect her child. She knew that her husband would go after Ha Na, as he is a pedophile. However, this dog butcher is in reality a misogynistic man, who hates older women and prefers children. When he described CWK as his type, he is actually lying in order to misdirect JH's perception of him. Maybe he came in contact with Red Cry and said that his wife had neglected and abused Ha Na.   

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Seeing Bitna's reaction to her mother's death, I want to know what LEH would say about it... He commented that he's glad to see Hana's (or those "rescued" children's) smiles. I doubt that Bitna will smile in near future even though her abuser is removed (permanently) from her. I am sure she would blame herself for her mother's death...

 

I suddenly thought of something. I doubt that EH is Red Cry, but probably just an informant, because he wondered and found it a surprise that the body found in the storage attic was a woman. He must have expected it to be a man's then. Therefore, it could have been a "judgment" gone wrong.

 

Also, I believe one of the reasons that he is put as the main lead yet not having as much screen time as we expect, could be due to the fact that he is from an idol group, thus having more popularity. The promotion pushed him forward to promote, obviously, lol... It's usually the case when an idol is cast. Nothing against idol here, I really love some of them acting. I am not into kpop though, so never know their works other than acting. But then again, we're only halfway through, so we might still see more of him later on...

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Whew, finally caught up and watched the latest episode.  Am going through  all the great posts here!  I just want to first reply to a few on this page :lol:

 

@cyan5tarlight Agree with you on the possible background of Red Cry leader, a former abused person who seek the shadow to seek vengeance toward the abusers.  I also agree that things are more complicated as pertaining to the motive and root of the organization.  Yet, while the rally motto seems to be "Protect the Children" and for a greater good, the extent of the punishment is severe and fanatic.  Sure, oust the abusers/parents and get the children to a safer environment; that I absolutely agree.  What I find treading into what seems like a personal vendetta is killing the abusers instead of let's say collecting the evidences and turning them to authority like WK with Bit Na.  I also don't understand why Red Cry has to taunt and torment Bit Na's mom to take her own life.  The woman already confessed and eventually will have to pay for her crime, just like Park Ji-Hye who burned her own son.  What Red Cry wants a permanent solution with no redemption.  No possibility for atonement.  No belief in the chance that a person can make a mistake, learn from it and change.  It's not only sombre, it's dark and pessimistic in humanity.  The only way Red Cry's leader is feeling this way is that the person has never grown up from the abused child that he/she was or was never allowed/given therapy to heal.  So in a way, this judgmental mentality is soaked with a hateful closed mindset.  When I see Bit Na's mom struggle with asking her to not forgive her, I thought it was the oddest request by a parent even one struggled with guilt.  It was more like Red Cry's leader passing judgment onto the woman and she is verbalizing her own punishment.  Anyway, pushing the woman to die even knowing she will eventually be sentenced is extreme and selfish.  You are taking away the chance for rehabilitation, redemption for the mother and Bit Na's choice to reunite with her mother.  What I am having the most trouble is the timing of the crime which didn't have to happen if Red Cry intervene early and especially its no-action when knowing Bit Na was being abused.  There would be no need for punishment if Red Cry has alerted the authority to her crime when WK failed.  It seems like Red Cry wanted to be a martyr for its purpose, or use the crimes to lend importance and reason to its killing.  It just doesn't make sense for me when Red Cry doesn't cooperate with authority to save the children.

 

 

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@bedifferent I am even questioning if Red Cry hasn't become an abuser himself/herself. By killing the abusive parent, he/she might have in her/his mind to destroy that vicious circle. Once abused in the childhood, the victim will become a perpetrator. This would explain why he/she condemned the abusive parent to die. By cutting that "rotten root", he ensures that the child won't become like his/her parent. 

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24 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

@bedifferent I am even questioning if Red Cry hasn't become an abuser himself/herself. By killing the abusive parent, he/she might have in her/his mind to destroy that vicious circle. Once abused in the childhood, the victim will become a perpetrator. This would explain why he/she condemned the abusive parent to die. By cutting that "rotten root", he ensures that the child won't become like his/her parent. 

 

I see your point, Red Cry projects the absolute solution and method by killing the source and stop the cascade of children mirroring the abuses dolled out on them in the future against others.  We are leaning toward the thought that Red Cry was never given the chance to break the cycle or see other options.  Ji Hoon and Hana are good examples of some kids who were able to heal because someone intervened or may be it is their strong character that took them out of the dark place.  I really want to know more about Ji Hoon now.  How did he escape and rise above the abusive time of his life.  We will see Hana's character tested in the next episode when she is forced to go with her dad.

 

I also find it odd that the girl in the green dress was not in the birthday picture if she was a part of the family (at this point, some theorize that she is WK's younger sister)?  Usually all the siblings will appear in the pic at cake time, I know, cuz my parents do that all the time! LOL  However, if we assumed that WK is the older person who pushed the girl in green dress, many years have passed between the bday and the pushing event.  WK's biological mom could be pregnant at the party or the girl is WK's cousin?

 

@ktcjdrama glad you are catching up with us!  So help me out with the logic here.  We are looking at two different events and we have to piece the timeline together cuz the pieces of information are not given in linear fashion.  If CSK is WK's stepsister, she would not have known about the girl in the green dress because WK's dad has not remarried.  Why would she recognize the drawn picture in the hospital?  Why would she be involved in WK's memory of this girl? The only way is that Mom passed away, Dad is left with 2 girls, CSK and stepmom entered their lives.  In my mind, WK would have more issue with CSK since they are step-siblings and not her own sister.  Although the dress is a memory of her own mother's love so it is precious to WK enough to cause the pushing.

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10 minutes ago, bedifferent said:

 

I see your point, Red Cry projects the absolute solution and method by killing the source and stop the cascade of children mirroring the abuses dolled out on them in the future against others.  We are leaning toward the thought that Red Cry was never given the chance to break the cycle or see other options.  Ji Hoon and Hana are good examples of some kids who were able to heal because someone intervened or may be it is their strong character that took them out of the dark place.  I really want to know more about Ji Hoon now.  How did he escape and rise above the abusive time of his life.  We will see Hana's character tested in the next episode when she is forced to go with her dad.

 

I also find it odd that the girl in the green dress was not in the birthday picture if she was a part of the family (at this point, some theorize that she is WK's younger sister)?  Usually all the siblings will appear in the pic at cake time, I know, cuz my parents do that all the time! LOL  However, if we assumed that WK is the older person who pushed the girl in green dress, many years have passed between the bday and the pushing event.  WK's biological mom could be pregnant at the party or the girl is WK's cousin?

 

@ktcjdrama glad you are catching up with us!  So help me out with the logic here.  We are looking at two different events and we have to piece the timeline together cuz the pieces of information are not given in linear fashion.  If CSK is WK's stepsister, she would not have known about the girl in the green dress because WK's dad has not remarried.  Why would she recognize the drawn picture in the hospital?  Why would she be involved in WK's memory of this girl? The only way is that Mom passed away, Dad is left with 2 girls, CSK and stepmom entered their lives.  In my mind, WK would have more issue with CSK since they are step-siblings and not her own sister.  Although the dress is a memory of her own mother's love so it is precious to WK enough to cause the pushing.

But if the little girl with the green dress is CWK and CSK is the step-sister then she could have recognized the dress and the girl. Like I mentioned it before, CWK might have been lied about the time of the marriage and when the stepmother entered their family. Notice that CWK has no memory of her biological mother (she has no face).

Honestly I am suspecting that CWK could have been a child that was not put in the register like Ha Na. This would explain why she received the name CWK and the father created fake memories with "false pictures". He let her believe that she was the little girl in the pictures.  

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On 12/21/2018 at 6:45 AM, bebebisous33 said:

 

In my opinion, the mother offered the dress but it was too big, hence it was put back into the gift box. Then her mother died and the stepmother appeared with her daughter. Her own daughter discovered the gift box and found the green dress therefore she decided to wear it for her own birthday. To me, CWK must have suffered a great trauma... maybe she got hurt in an accident, where she suffered from amnesia. The father decided to ensure that CWK would never remember what had happened to her seeing it as an opportunity to redeem himself.

 

Heh, read all posts now.:D  I'm ok with the theory that CSK is the older sister (in the hospital) who pushed CWK (the girl in the green dress).  What is missing still is the third child, WK's own sister when the stepmother and CSK entered their life? Didn't she say that she has a sister?  Or is it a mixed jumbo confused bag in WK's mind and the third girl doesn't exist?  The photos only show 2 girls and we don't know the cause of death for both of WK's parents.

 

My strongest impression of who the Red Cry leader is - Soo Young, Jin Hoo's partner. hahaha, why not.

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7 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

Well, I disagree with you on this. CWK suspected that Bit Na was abused 2 years ago, then the accident of her sister happened and CWK was bedridden for one month. During that time, Red Cry approached HJM. The quarrel between CWK and HJM was known among the members of that group. They didn't know the reason but Red Cry could have looked into it.

You bring up some good points, @bebebisous33, though I can think of some possible explanations for this right off the top of my head. It's possible Red Cry hadn't found the Everyone's Children organization at that point in time, or, even if they had, they might have looked into the allocations, but Hajung hid her tracks too well that time. Or, she might have even stopped abusing her daughter for a time, to throw people off the scent, and then started back up again after suspicion had died down and she'd "proven" herself. We don't know if the arson case is connected to Red Cry yet, but if it is, the FATHER could have been convinced to start the fire and stayed in the house and died to "atone" for abusing his son. Just a thought I had. The doctor who killed Jihye also killed himself, pointing to him also having a guilty conscience about possible abuses he perpetrated toward his family as well. He wasn't spared because of his station, either. Red Cry just allowed him to do the deed himself. Perhaps it seems like Red Cry doesn't go after richer families as much because richer families have more access to technology and more of a way to be useful to the organization, but probably once they've served their purpose, "justice" is meted out to them the same way it's meted out to everyone else.

 

 

7 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

As for HN, I am now wondering if her biological father is not the one who killed the mother by using Red Cry's association (this is due to the preview we saw).

I was wondering that myself after I saw the preview! Though Hana did say that the man looked kind, which... well, the dog butcher does not really fit that bill very well, given how terrified she is of him. XD

 

 

2 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

By killing the abusive parent, he/she might have in her/his mind to destroy that vicious circle. Once abused in the childhood, the victim will become a perpetrator. This would explain why he/she condemned the abusive parent to die. By cutting that "rotten root", he ensures that the child won't become like his/her parent. 

 

2 hours ago, bedifferent said:

I see your point, Red Cry projects the absolute solution and method by killing the source and stop the cascade of children mirroring the abuses dolled out on them in the future against others.  We are leaning toward the thought that Red Cry was never given the chance to break the cycle or see other options.

Exactly my thoughts on the matter. Red Cry was so badly damaged and scarred during childhood that they literally no longer see any possible solution to the problem other than the most extreme measure possible, possibly because nothing else they tried as a child worked other than getting rid of the source of their misery directly. They see things very black and white, just like a child: you abuse children, you're scum, you don't deserve to be forgiven, and the only way you could possibly atone is by removing yourself from this world, voluntarily or involuntarily. Heck, it's possible Red Cry even has some inclination of how messed up they are internally, and are trying to make sure no one else ends up like them by rescuing/avenging the children the only way they know how. The reason they don't go to the police is that they don't believe the police can be trusted, or even care, about the plight of children who fall through the cracks. And really, are they totally wrong in this assumption? We see the system fail children time and time again when it comes to abusive parents, especially in Korea, where under reported and unpunished child abuse is still a pretty big problem, as this article a helpful commenter on Dramabeans posted demonstrates: https://www.koreaexpose.com/children-of-misfortune/

Obviously, one should still work within the confines of the law as much as possible, but to someone who's been failed by the system personally, which Red Cry probably was, they're likely not too inclined to trust it anymore. Why get others to do what you can do yourself?

 

 

I do definitely want to more know about Jiheon, too, now that we have pretty definitive evidence his mom abused him. He's obviously not baggage-free, but he's still a functioning member of society and even works with the police force. What's his deal? I need to kno.

 

 

4 hours ago, ktcjdrama said:

Also, I believe one of the reasons that he is put as the main lead yet not having as much screen time as we expect, could be due to the fact that he is from an idol group, thus having more popularity. The promotion pushed him forward to promote, obviously, lol... It's usually the case when an idol is cast. Nothing against idol here, I really love some of them acting. I am not into kpop though, so never know their works other than acting. But then again, we're only halfway through, so we might still see more of him later on...

 

Eh, that did occur to me, though I really hope that's not correct, because that would be false advertising at its absolute worst. I, certainly, would feel extremely cheated after being promised one thing and delivered another. It'd be like a drama casting Lee Jongsuk for a part, saying he's going to be a main character and slapping his face on all the promotional material, and then giving him maybe a minute of screentime in most episodes. Wouldn't his fans feel just a wee bit confused and maybe even a mite pissed off at that? Like I said previously, though, I don't watch that many dramas, so this could be a common practice that I was just in the dark about.

Just speaking as a drama n00b fan of N and of the group he's from (like I mentioned previously, I heard of the drama when I learned that he would be in it), though, I do confess to feeling somewhat confused and slightly annoyed at how shafted he seems to be screen-time wise for the past few weeks, though as mentioned, that could be intentional, and I've been holding out hope that that could change with future events. And I mean, he's played smaller parts in other dramas before, such as in Tunnel, Perfect Wife, and Familiar Wife, and he wasn't touted as some huge player in any of those to my knowledge. In the case of Tunnel, his character was extremely important to the storyline, yet he still got comparatively very little screen time himself personally. Still, I was like "well okay, it wasn't like he was a main character or anything, so it's fine, whatever." This? Boi, all I can say is, they'd better be giving him some more screentime and soon.

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26 minutes ago, bedifferent said:

 

Heh, read all posts now.:D  I'm ok with the theory that CSK is the older sister (in the hospital) who pushed CWK (the girl in the green dress).  What is missing still is the third child, WK's own sister when the stepmother and CSK entered their life? Didn't she say that she has a sister?  Or is it a mixed jumbo confused bag in WK's mind and the third girl doesn't exist?  The photos only show 2 girls and we don't know the cause of death for both of WK's parents.

 

My strongest impression of who the Red Cry leader is - Soo Young, Jin Hoo's partner. hahaha, why not.

If there was a third child, then CWK must have witnessed her death. I am suspecting that the father might have manipulated CWK in order to cover up the abuse. 

Since we already have three cases where a girl is hidden (SW, Ha Na, the sister of the boy who died in a hit-and-run accident), I am suspecting that that must have been the case for CWK too. 

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7 hours ago, bedifferent said:

What I am having the most trouble is the timing of the crime which didn't have to happen if Red Cry intervene early and especially its no-action when knowing Bit Na was being abused.  There would be no need for punishment if Red Cry has alerted the authority to her crime when WK failed.  It seems like Red Cry wanted to be a martyr for its purpose, or use the crimes to lend importance and reason to its killing.  It just doesn't make sense for me when Red Cry doesn't cooperate with authority to save the children.

Like someone pointed out before (can't remember who) Red Cry is playing god, so that must be the reason why he/she doesn't bother to work with the authorities. And RC is seeking for death sentence and nothing less. Stepmom pointed out that the LSH had served her time, why are people still going after her. For RC, it isn't enough to serve time. Death is the punishment. As for Bitna's mother, it seems that RC never knew about the abuse until she got caught and confessed to the police. Their chat during that night was RC: "Very unexpected and very disappointing" (referring to what she did) - LHJ: "I have my reason" - RC: "Does your child understand that reason?"

If death is the punishment, it brings me to the mother hit by the truck. She didn't end up dead... Will she also die when RC found out?

 

6 hours ago, bedifferent said:

So help me out with the logic here.  We are looking at two different events and we have to piece the timeline together cuz the pieces of information are not given in linear fashion.  If CSK is WK's stepsister, she would not have known about the girl in the green dress because WK's dad has not remarried.  Why would she recognize the drawn picture in the hospital?  Why would she be involved in WK's memory of this girl? The only way is that Mom passed away, Dad is left with 2 girls, CSK and stepmom entered their lives.  In my mind, WK would have more issue with CSK since they are step-siblings and not her own sister.  Although the dress is a memory of her own mother's love so it is precious to WK enough to cause the pushing.

I never thought of CSK as the stepsister actually. Was under the impression that stepmom married into the family by herself without bringing any children. What we've found out so far is that the stepmom married to a man with two girls. But, since we cannot trust anyone's narration now, there could be a third girl (the one CWK kept seeing) who had died. All of her pictures removed to show a family of 4, just like how we could not see the picture of her bio mom. CWK was definitely being told something else to form a memory desired by her father, thus the false memory she has. There are inconsistencies in their family pictures with what we're told so far, as @larus pointed out in previous page. She could've been the younger sister but made the older one. This would be similar to another recent drama (in spoiler):

Spoiler

What happened to Secretary Kim ~ whereby the parents allowed the brothers to trade memory of what happened in their childhood.

Actually, at rewatch of beginning of ep.17-18, I am thinking the one who pushed the little girl was the taller girl, but the one who ripped the dress off was a woman (the mother?)... Judging from their heights...

 

4 hours ago, cyan5tarlight said:

Eh, that did occur to me, though I really hope that's not correct, because that would be false advertising at its absolute worst.

I hope so too... unfortunately, false advertising by drama posters happened before so I won't be surprised if that is so...

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Just finally getting around to watching episodes 17&18 ; just gotta say that I hope Red Cry (Leader) isn't trying to separate Uri Woo Kyung and Ji Heon :'( 

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4 hours ago, ktcjdrama said:

 

If death is the punishment, it brings me to the mother hit by the truck. She didn't end up dead... Will she also die when RC found out?

 

I never thought of CSK as the stepsister actually. Was under the impression that stepmom married into the family by herself without bringing any children. What we've found out so far is that the stepmom married to a man with two girls. But, since we cannot trust anyone's narration now, there could be a third girl (the one CWK kept seeing) who had died. All of her pictures removed to show a family of 4, just like how we could not see the picture of her bio mom. CWK was definitely being told something else to form a memory desired by her father, thus the false memory she has. There are inconsistencies in their family pictures with what we're told so far, as @larus pointed out in previous page. She could've been the younger sister but made the older one. This would be similar to another recent drama (in spoiler):

  Hide contents

What happened to Secretary Kim ~ whereby the parents allowed the brothers to trade memory of what happened in their childhood.

Actually, at rewatch of beginning of ep.17-18, I am thinking the one who pushed the little girl was the taller girl, but the one who ripped the dress off was a woman (the mother?)... Judging from their heights...

 

Good point about the mother who didn't die. 

 

Thanks for reminding me that the stepmother possible didn't enter the family with her own child. Her devotion to care for CSK is even more admirable if that is the case.

 

9 hours ago, cyan5tarlight said:

Just a thought I had. The doctor who killed Jihye also killed himself, pointing to him also having a guilty conscience about possible abuses he perpetrated toward his family as well. He wasn't spared because of his station, either. Red Cry just allowed him to do the deed himself. 

 

Exactly my thoughts on the matter. Red Cry was so badly damaged and scarred during childhood that they literally no longer see any possible solution to the problem other than the most extreme measure possible, possibly because nothing else they tried as a child worked other than getting rid of the source of their misery directly. They see things very black and white, just like a child: you abuse children, you're scum, you don't deserve to be forgiven, and the only way you could possibly atone is by removing yourself from this world, voluntarily or involuntarily. Heck, it's possible Red Cry even has some inclination of how messed up they are internally, and are trying to make sure no one else ends up like them by rescuing/avenging the children the only way they know how. The reason they don't go to the police is that they don't believe the police can be trusted, or even care, about the plight of children who fall through the cracks. And really, are they totally wrong in this assumption? We see the system fail children time and time again when it comes to abusive parents, especially in Korea, where under reported and unpunished child abuse is still a pretty big problem, as this article a helpful commenter on Dramabeans posted demonstrates: https://www.koreaexpose.com/children-of-misfortune/

Obviously, one should still work within the confines of the law as much as possible, but to someone who's been failed by the system personally, which Red Cry probably was, they're likely not too inclined to trust it anymore. Why get others to do what you can do yourself?

 

 

Thanks for the link to the article.  Yes, the system fails but do you give up on the system or take initiative to change the system for the better?  It's one of the points to ponder in this drama.  I do understand your points.

 

I do have the problem with RC coercing multiple parents into killing himself/herself.  There are other ways to force the perpetrators to take responsibilities.  I think public shaming are huge punishments for these Tiger Moms. Once their dirty deeds are made public, they would die from shame due to public sentiments and outcast.  Death is  physical and absolute but not the only punishment. 

 

Did you notice that the last death was not associated with the poem?  

 

@bebebisous33 One thing is missing from all our speculations is the fact that Red Cry has not direct anything against law enforcement.  Usually if an abused child fell through the cracks of the system, you will see some resentment toward the police for failing to do their job.  So far, we haven't seen RC laying blame on the police for not protecting the children.  The punishment is for the parents.  Also, it would be not uncommon for an abused child to grow up choosing careers that enable her/him to protect children, like a counselor, teacher or police officer where they are now in position of power.  I think this is why Soo Young is suspicious to me as the possible RC leader.

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Derailed by real life once more so haven't been able to participate much though I have been following everyone's posts avidly. Anyway, just quickly dropping by to respond to @partyon's questions re my suspicions about Red Cry:

Spoiler

 

Regardless of all the evidence that seems to point to the contrary, for now I am still inclined to believe that LEH is Red Cry for several reasons:

 

Physical traits

Height - Ha Na identified the person who withheld her mother's inhaler to be the same height as KJH, which matches LEH

s0HlG44YMxONHgzwKMvWm_7P_mdkdoAHMNcMsSI-UKnEkAJEsZSAV5z-YcvgkPZs-qd-KK8WajLhJ7nUCnHGGKjnzsqY-gVgZ6mQAfBXEe9c7GIZ6mL17muU-3muAbV8qflrexCUFrr_SgAzlIC6XXVc48gJ7llTAcrhGAf770moCQZxY9PPSndS400FilR4nXMzCAPaNVrFH5CiAeoZkNFS8bO9lbeVrjzgcMFybydBE-Y829nlIop-M9wBsasy1SakDcxOUfiofw2bH9VUldeYdY-5c0w-A2_FDowRBZpUTYizuJcF1tSF8aPdGGbDYweVoRoq4Qg1c86Oqj8kbDr-9bj0tPlXPIwbxWiCZ3zajoOIHKS1_3ZurDzY5h1b2omNg4aS5kSJab0bDZuEVUL7PTnaTaCacun-WSj_sojdunJMPJRrKmRwVcBUqO8SrwgPO--zeJEsdU-6UbvZAWg6-gey-lfZtj3MBDmBPdhBz89lsK03_MLdGGMpnjmk-bs17tpa62cNd91jWAoVAto_l8ewRBXLjqqTV4Y5TnSja6biVeU0T2LMoN4Pow4FYpr8oDi0HZyVgPTt13t4wHsiLp1nOo3PE1vskXff4RNrx0l4iPw7YJ_Yvx_Vt894s-_F1DDwmOUbl8rUHaMHpGx9=w600-h338-no

 

Physique - Red Cry is seen to be tall and lanky, which fits LEH's description

 

Hands - Red Cry's hands appear similar to LEH's in features

cFDacnXK-Uc5rBpMp2MJf31hcJhbg2lP6YWvZIFO_4QJzBTN8pV7iNl9gwZIueaZUUa6hB_0Kzx-lfSkMgmdzUynDhrkGkbrjLBW6H0Op4aC9o5GIRtWrOS8VxNZbjPS9bFFW2iUdj2LFSXLQjnbD3r1xjv_eersI7AXPfxS9oRl5WVyiE1ConL0G39oAEzen274WBqqFpzb44Twrlnv6NnPsXCUePRcRhEKJTF0taUA4qBqfyHwDNRkTaXwaPCzQJJ7XHMZ8DjDeR8MYJdCJtk28aHgyi-2BHIvRyytb_tl6ID6QsdddiLGvZVqF-Fh3hrXK6EU2F5lAwPwM1bgUbIxXdiK6wo2g36XA486PPeEOvPgpUZ4LEMoh4HTz7ZXxfv_x_XXrm_-ncnm19ijmo_tZaNb8M9-DoLa8qU750qOHR1j2m5Qp18_W2PK3iS-h6EC8j3hN3sXNb5WL0Fn2TF4o4sw-OWVCtYXoOiW12tTZFu4cIzX6KL9c-Wi3FcDQhGXTXoc7MRnMxKRI1hGcdAUqndy0izie_u8RExE53yheOC7huTfbYh1NDBcXuxdrtKca9fhgg5_AsOMpBPq5Vo09abv5ORlLP91ptmtIxZeEEbSvIvIGF26HRl6-7yBsZK5BukwTvpH-9tcCCtK7MB2=w600-h696-no

 

Gloves - the gloves worn by Red Cry when drugging ASW appear to be the same as LEH's work gloves

HR8prJ8iLIHkJEbgdw9UURvVKDqJH5dKDFiQVfNEt_9MGQZ89OTo3uapCjWoKVyNCauO849bozdJKVNU_FIAj03iXLkikc-Ra1G1OzfR5q8hyiJPbg8yYNp5SmF0ZjZn3VcKBSNRlx3FzSImSYPKV5zMC8QlGZr-vJuV24a15kPZZLWXG89yCJoH0HqpeRJjLId-HwF68ijmLDbwoN4eySvCPVqH1my9iwLEdRvvsE7kNX016bCEa3W1g9B8CnkswaIR38ZDIHUCod3Xq1HUs3TiA5jUKr-MjwL_-A3xBM1Rb7zwehcJFpo-hOJlvRPfKQsmuLlieok1-v1D2GBLf9tSkKTEHrDLPgxI3mkALqNHgHU2bS47Th1jl8V-an_hi-0F6n11ouNf4l4T0PA5uUt4KYgCMiXcg12wLchq13-UckpiiKyXrPHBt9nHMogemVUXILnfRPnrbRmcGXpmt1H__DpQ00b5mHnNlAVioxIguAN1lmY56cZe02hjODZ7d--GMv1wRxs94vDjzzqmEV7sQBaNuziUzFTjykSKnGE5bTVZvUlBqTzGUFwg2Qx-93nf8TattJwosjxXqIAjKmaWNXpqiT1zOetrK_fO9j6OkqWsKxDHPO2YAvn_9g-IR7jnH-2U5rZcB40nHXRltPQy=w600-h642-no

 

 

Past

Previous crime - As testified by KJH, LEH has had at least one situation in the past where he has helped free a child from his abusive parent through arson - the deed highly possible to have been done by him, rather than providing a false alibi to the boy. There is no timeframe given as to when this happened, but since it was several years ago, possibly even before the Park Ji Hye outcry, it seems indicative that even back then, he already strongly believed in liberation of abused children by totally eradicating the root of the abuse

 

Ties to Dreamland Orphanage and the poem "Leper" - LEH is already confirmed to have had ties to the orphanage which showcased the poem used in the first case, and this is clearly a poem he knows well, and is well aware is unsuitable for children. This could very well be related to the room with the big desk, which held all his unwanted memories, in turn indicating he could have suffered abuse at the orphanage.

 

 

Contradictions
In the flashback to when Red Cry visited Park Ji Hye, before luring her to the abandoned playground, the words "When the moon rises above the barley field" were written with the left hand.

3LnEJi9XNMrvQ_uaRbo5auQcqudS66C1QcWdShXEKju5rcj7FQ4M5lYHiVdlT8H18j1J2_rRc7eyZc5PkachRJL6GA_tNbrBRMosri4c4ZEfySMteqt0aYP-Zl_ydPpd0mK-fZUQYqy-R34y9TBVvElSKn017hFA-LgEoYQXheJR7JrhuD7K3iu1IbcU-3_MNx3oSQX5UMqPYNyK_ZEC5dtR3MIoCJCcycxDF4s08usETCm3N8Mzer1bUKCpAB4-vVFhYTHBG6DBdza40EmqQ0JUa2lg3BrRpx8WCHpBwOYQX1H7bS4Ymy2QRYEIIRup3e0QIQEAlKG-7Fk465gYM5avYixn8RRkzY8IxtpqkqGwFFPfTGNpwGyCIYYewC5f9dwpacn-SUxx-WRScB5DYZ4cWt1BhkagkXe2EEl_QvB8PWIor0vQAT6_0B3PUYWd5wStnEpnpZZ4mOc0_tWfdCOCCMDFFsMAKLs2EZpeoiqlVpm8VJTbpZIt_uhyQOTZsjQGUCPN5Or2VsPopmBx9cVC-R_Q-Hz2gNiQDlMXfCrwFbLuZhhDGs5i4_C6irBL5fxfJB0EXM-D-16tQsnzBGl2AYLk0yB70Pmn8HPoC4R3dMjOyIRtTZA8_zWROO4fWPFOdOcwB2CIrHEQFHIG7gRJ=w600-h338-no

 

However, as we have seen during LEH's sketching, he draws with his right hand.

o5uE7eVYSw64sKnwBRFIWrn3v6pX43r8tVgcuthvAt5zDJa8m2d5pz3XuoOy_o-yuhTVOUjWdPX8OgazGpe3UmE68PVgYYCNFK_8SjxNi5Ni2r5o33Wj6yAsyuNMcsRB5qlKDPxScIh9nMEI5Bua1QQ3cQP--LN6Lppauplg7frmtsFcqhqNTnxeq-UY_7n21_Id--l-QOUlrO5fHpXbajBY6TAQBhsxPdwXjAu-yIjRl_C3Y07qCzbKJJtwfBwEMLaCIIx4DcGsTy7RpiurY-hm-ohoETC2OohmQnuWGMEKDpbaP0FFdxaJOFq-6FeyRRj8F7wMqZVDRz8-RXjIpXyvJ1NLXjXdgnfhL8rz2MGbdzyFwXH1wzdYuW-MoDgTYwPAd-X1h5gdmUnqJCLk8YMSVX_P43C8rKbEgpkroHJnGfvEW-XllbSkbUFTacUiA0UHOrUX6xUqgGrx7immBzbPs06R1THQINGPc4xYbQDLHRTs2gPRnffF1-9HpK9bNOLaZsQpeFj-kNvpZ_SECpY6lp9jQ3FDPt31zTSBPbazQxXr_XWISDRGmQhNLJLVP7dlAvMd7G13PdEaozBpksT7xgf5JftHVCr2vLrbdqCbXdC9iM3uOWQKIeCXjGZo9AkaAZuyZYySR4y_yaObBsuU=w600-h337-no

 

Still, despite this contradiction, I can perhaps explain it off as follows:

a. Red Cry's words were written in the left hand to throw off anyone trying to identify his handwriting.

b. Since the verses indicate someone who hates poetry, it is possible that Red Cry does not wish to associate what he hates with what he loves (drawing children whose happiness makes him feel cleansed)

 

 

Anyway, these are just all conjectures at this point in time, and I won't be surprised if the drama throws new spanner in the works as far as my theories go with the coming episodes. Very early in the drama, I did wonder if this person was possibly Red Cry, or at least related to him, but thus far, we have not had any hints to that effect since that very brief appearance in Ep3. We shall see...

Spoiler

RRYzSD2Y310P3aTVgly_BXr2n3l80eTN-rwvyHlxwpHzt6v2yhZ1WeBKMKhZCwKeFrW6ZpHxIqQMd4BX4oO4wXhd1WA1Fnpaee75AXU9C9j7gFe1DT-o4oNcuMS58vJq8lxR8-dopiHdSBRA8GkV-sOPcMrZQMStKu6Nl-I0Uztd0K1kvrbWKV-9oZ9O88vy4vcKkMEM3aNjIGV8CS9zE_jbuman7tfg4OJD0-2oIpIMpOj4zvgWvDdltFnXiXuE9qkch4GSluNZQrSdk5sexkPPFdcLjZD_iVf4XvTJ_1xgCKSHmOdjwMh0RqJpX-3QQrKeRbNsHmTEWpzdQi-MeXUEVhfBVe4_B8DTVFcRjsx7UfGGBTkOD2K_DAhsXP384lsJJa4bpSoGsvTzsIkznlOJjH2VKY85Hjf3vA-qv0vvsTdENbg5OWOnetU-9YKiIFPM7VvVQNdclMLpkq5ebqtS2Cgs_0WkLkzLBd2jh8e0Qxu0l_4t_nGwKae1zfSOpuhhEUbIC9hwBYleu404O-gTRaYxVzgayXm0uVIj9ycpXieg7kT55Fw-YKKfJfzuGQQ4JGQJfKCwwuYuDGaWCTBAxVE-hPSoVjSPVqOPXVafjVLxzogOEgjlmg3yj6UKQHmQdrK7mNnk7HIRdhvN_9DK=w600-h338-no

 

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Me after reading all the post:

 

too-much.gif

 

And we are nowhere near to the answers!

:joy:

 

Happy holidays all!

 

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i hope we find out who the girl in the green dress is before the year ends, and possibly get vital clues about red cry.

 

gah ..just lost a very long entry. :bawling:

 

anyway.. not sure if anyone shares my thoughts on the stepmom's resentments. 

 

1. girl in green dress > 3rd sibling > stepmom's kid with the dad

 

2. cwk and csk might have bullied the youngest girl > possibly caused her death

 

3. dad decided to fabricate his kids' memories in order to protect them from trauma and sworn stepmom to secrecy

 

4. stepmom still holds resentment. she doesnt want csk to be transferred to a shared room. insisting that dad left enough money for her to stay there for a long time. imo this ensures two things. one, stepmom can continously berate cwk's life choices as well as fault her for csk's state for a long time.. as long as she doesnt recuperate  and two, a solo room wont have the risk of anyone learnjng whether stepmom is abusing csk. i think its all psychological drama now at this point.

 

5. the argument from two years ago could have something to do with the little girl. why else would cwk have a breakdown and csk rushing off to have that accident. could it be that their memories resurfaced. only cwk's breakdown had her forgetting again and stepmom is no help either. 

 

5. stepmom doesnt want cwk's memories back or csk to be better because she hasnt completed her revenge yet. and thats to frame cwk and have her lost everything.

 

thoughts? 

 

happy christmas everyone! :kiss_wink:

 

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Wild theory day...

girl in the green dress is cwk( since siwan and the bakery lady both think she is based on the resemblance)

there is also a memory of her standing behind the birthday girl...so she existed at the same time...

She is also not in the picture of the family of 4.

My wild guess is that she is CWK and the unloved biological daughter of the supposed step mom... who might have have been the housekeeper to the family. 

So the sister in the vegetative state may have been coerced to keep mum ( bad pun unintended) about the situation

 

Red cry does seem child like in that he /she eliminates the parent abuser with no redemption ...

Think eunho is linked since he is also childlike in that respect..and his ominous words regatding hana and her current happiness....now wondering if the last boy he drew is siwan and siwan' s parents are the next in line...

The prominently placed videocam in bitna's interview seems to be telling us a potential source of information for red cry to act on...

Think red cry and the organisation seem to go into only established cases of abuse.... and hence may have been unaware of bitna's abuse...most likely acting once they had established access to the videos of counselling.

Just unfortunate that they targeted CWK or she may have accidentally identified herself as a source of info when she joined the activist group.

Victims so far:

Park ji hye's case was known to all...

The victim of cwk's accident was random until the mother identified herself. 

Hana's case would have been potentially known by eunho only..cos he looks after the place....that's why the dad is still alive..though CWK supernatural/subconscious link is currently unexplained.

Sora's and Bitna's case timing is linked to video recording of their sessions...

So siwan is now the unresolved case which is on redcry's radar...

Lol...obviously not concentrating on RL

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@liddi LEH could be ambidextrous

 

trying to check the similarities

3LnEJi9XNMrvQ_uaRbo5auQcqudS66C1QcWdShXE

cFDacnXK-Uc5rBpMp2MJf31hcJhbg2lP6YWvZIFO

 

compare the writing hand to the image above. i feel like its the same left hand. thoughts? 

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@bella1025 That was my initial thought too, and as I mentioned in my previous analysis, I do feel that the hands are similar. I believe that the choice to write the verse with the left hand has to do with its association with what he hates, as opposed to the right, which gives expression to what he loves. Let's see if I'm far off the mark by the end of the show :D 

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5 minutes ago, liddi said:

@bella1025 That was my initial thought too, and as I mentioned in my previous analysis, I do feel that the hands are similar. I believe that the choice to write the verse with the left hand has to do with its association with what he hates, as opposed to the right, which gives expression to what he loves. Let's see if I'm far off the mark by the end of the show :D 

i love your analogy. i, on the other hand, was thinking.. maybe he just likes to write with his left and draw with his right hand? hahaah 

i hope that if this drama winds up disproving our theories thay it'll be something mind-boggling but wouldve made the most sense and we'd be left scratching our heads.. huh why didnt we think of that. but if it one of our theories wind uo correct .. well huzzah for our thread.:P

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