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I think Yesuh's apology has been the most sincere apology I have ever seen in the entire drama.  We all know that she is too selfish, extreme when it comes to appreciating herself, and she even answers back at her mom when she thinks,  she is right (well,  she always feel like that.) 

 

However, for the first time,  she sets aside her pride to Woo Joo and apologized to him , for causing him trouble. 

 

She had always cried for herself alone. But she cried because she saw what happened to Woo Joo. 

 

For the first time, she didn't cry because she failed to get what she wants - She cried because she sees the suffering of another person, and it hits her. She cried for others. She cried out of pity. She cried out of love.

 

Now, we know that Yesuh can set aside her pride for the one she loves, and I think,  this is one if the biggest  developments of a character in the entire series. 

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Rough translations of preview for ep 18
 

 

YS: Mom, I do really want to go to SNU
HSJ: That's why, let's try to get through this semester well

SR: It's said that a successful parent is someone that is admired by his children.. But look at how pathetic you are, Dad

 

YS: This is my seat
SJ: Why is this your seat? You are expelled for stealing the exam paper

KJ: Shinhwa High has expelled Kang YeSuh. You are the one who destroyed your life

 

Man (Young Jae's Dad?): This way your daughter will get sick (?)
HSJ: What should I do now?
KJS: You have to make the choice. YeSuh's life and yours are different

 

Spoiler for ep 17 (and rough translations of some conversation)

Spoiler

The culprit has yet to be revealed completely, but I think all the suspicions and some evidences pointed at Coach Kim.

The security guard that day retrieved some money (I put my bet that it was from Coach Kim) and was photographed by Secretary/Teacher Jo.

 

 

 

KJS finally found out about the truth that Hyena is his daughter and was devastated to realized it so late (and regretting his action towards her in the past and did take a part of her death, because he chose to operate another patient).

 

 

HN: Because YeSuh trusts you, she probably figures that your prediction are 100% right. Who was it? From our school, who worked with you? 

KJY: You don't fear of anything?
HN: Of course I do. Afraid of not having money and house to live in and that I lost my mother too, is something I afraid of

KJY: And... You must be afraid to not be acknowledge by your own dad, don't you?
So, what do you want?

HN: To make Kang YeSuh fails entering SNU. I'll go there with my own skills, you only have to make her fail. You too must know that I am Kang Joon Sang's daughter, right? After all, we are sisters who share the same blood and live under the same roof, it's too much don't you think? YeSuh too doesn't know about that. 

KJY: Are you sure that the real reason is to show your existence to your father? If YeSuh fails, your Dad and Grandma will acknowledge you...

HN: Yeah, that's right. I want to show that even without a Coordinator I can enter SNU. I want to stand out from YeSuh and to prove that my mother is a better person that YeSuh's mother. 

KJY: And if I refuse?
HN: I can either contact or send an email to some centers to let them know. I can also write an anonymous letter to our School homepage and the news will spread fast. I think I should contact one of the center. They would be furious when they know that you have worked together with (??)

KJY: Hmm... You are quite cute
HN: If you don't give your answers within 4 days, all the questions that you have given to YeSuh, I'll reveal all of it.

KJY: Goodbye

 

Once again Cha's and Jjin Jin's family are the comic reliefs for the serious situation

Spoiler

 

 

After 2 days being kicked out of the house, Prof Cha came back bringing an enormous pyramid as a replacement for the broken small pyramid. He even thanking his youngest and proud this pyramid will be hard to destroy

 

 

Jjin Jin who was visiting Cha's family house asked about the pyramid. Later she tried to teach her son about what she learned from Prof Cha. Her son is getting better while dealing up with his parents antics. :lol:

 

 

HSJ demanded the truth from KJY regarding the voice recording of Hyena's and hers

Spoiler

 

 

HSJ: Do you know how dangerous of your action to do that?
KJY: As I've told you before, YeSuh has a weak mental. She must been so upset after knowing that Hyena is her step-sister.
HSJ: You told me to do it, You did! You told me that since her mental is weak, we have to put Hyena to toughen it up

 

KJY: You are the one who keep provoking Hyena. Your actions has destroyed my plan. I have no choice to do that as my last options. Because no matter what, YeSuh has to become the First 

HSJ: 100% acceptance of to SNU. Is this how you achieved it?
KJY: I wouldn't have to do it if the child herself has enough capabilities. But to those who don't then I have no choice to choose this way. 

HSJ: I guess that you did this too to make Young Jae accepted at SNU. Doing this to a child who had to be treated psychologically for one year

KJY: Ma'am, when I told you about YeSuh's mental, I did a simulation and the result showed out of 100 she is at 44th place.

Can you accept that kind of truth?

HSJ: So? To cover up your dirty tricks, you killed Hyena? After killing her, you tried to make that my YeSuh killed her? And let WooJo who is innocent to take the blame 

(Oh my, KJY's face expression and eye are really perfect to show her as the real villain)

 

KJY: To be honest, wasn't I someone that you have to believe forever (?)
HSJ: Shut it! How can you say that?

KJY: Well, what is the real reason for you to meet with me?

Do you want to reveal the fact that I stole the exam paper for YeSuh and made her get 0 points or to report me as the culprit for Hyena's death? If you really don't want WooJo to suffer, then you can report to the police immediately. And if you do that, the stealing exam paper incident will be known and of course YeSuh would get 0 points. Both Shinhwa High and the parents will demand her to be punished and probably expelled. SNU? Ha

 

 

Edited by alleram95
adding video
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Just finished 17 and wow! This show continues to surprise. Just a few initial thoughts:

 

- the central character arc driving this show is Kwak Min Hyang (pronounced kwang, so it doesn’t really rhyme with Quack, hehe)

 

- and the central question here is: Can she find her conscience and redeem herself?

 

- it turns out, Yeh Suh might be the first to break. Yeh Suh, the one she trained to live without empathy or compassion for others, is starting to realize she’s lived her entire life wrong.

 

- From Day 1 she is a woman without scruples, manipulative and willing to put up with anything for her daughter’s success.

 

- But one by one, over and over again, her beliefs are challenged. By the death of her friend, the return of Soo Im her friend from childhood, her admission to the public about her past

 

- But then the choice becomes sacrificing her daughter’s future (everything she has worked for the past eighteen years) or living with her guilty conscience for the rest of her life. Or as the preview says, her life or her daughter’s life. What will she choose?

 

What a question!!!!

 

Would you sacrifice your child’s future if that meant doing the right thing? Or would you knowingly do something bad/wrong just to protect your child?

 

One minor quibble. I know Yeh Suh is moved by her love for Woo Joo, but I thought the transition from her hopelessly infatuated with Coach Kim Joo Young, to suspecting her was a bit abrupt. It would have been nice to show more of her loss of innocence. Fascinating character, especially when paralleled against her mom!

 

 

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52 minutes ago, alleram95 said:

 

Once again Cha's and Jjin Jin's family are the comic reliefs for the serious situation

 

Lol these 2 families seem so out of the whole current situation now that they had to have some other narrative built for them - maybe a symptom of extending the show? I feel like Soohan's family's story is done - just the Cha family left to "revamp" Prof Cha. That pyramid though :lol:

 

A very small part of me felt sorry for Dr Kang - HSJ really should have told him, at least at the hospital since she was there the whole time and knew HyeNa was in bad shape. It just reeked of a lack of sympathy for anyone that wasn't her own family. Then of course I can't deny Dr Kang brought it upon himself as well, choosing to rescue the more privileged, rather than left Dr Hwang make the right decision as a doctor. 

 

It felt like YeSeo would be the one to reveal it all... but now that she knows the impact it has on her own future, what will she do? 

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I hope Kwak Mi Huang ends up in effing prison. 

Woo Joo mom begged her on her knees, she denied. She is an accomplice and so is Yeh Suh. 

The father chocking Coach Kim was great, but he still is an awful human being regardless. 

 

 

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Started watching this two days ago and already caught up to episode 17. Really good one to replace Children of Nobody. The good thing with this drama is the comedic relief of Prof Cha and Dr. Woo's family, hence it is not too dark and depressing.

3 hours ago, effy1994 said:

The father chocking Coach Kim was great, but he still is an awful human being regardless. 

It is matter of who is lesser evil and those who admit and repent for their mistakes. His conversation with his mom in the hotel cafe shows that how he has been living.

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Leakage? Like,  duh! What leakage? 

 

EPISODE 17 RATINGS:

 

Nationwide - 19.923%/5.152 Million viewers 

Seoul - 21.927%/2.639 Million viewers 

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10 hours ago, SaiSai1988 said:

I think Yesuh's apology has been the most sincere apology I have ever seen in the entire drama.  We all know that she is too selfish, extreme when it comes to appreciating herself, and she even answers back at her mom when she thinks,  she is right (well,  she always feel like that.) 

 

However, for the first time,  she sets aside her pride to Woo Joo and apologized to him , for causing him trouble. 

 

She had always cried for herself alone. But she cried because she saw what happened to Woo Joo. 

 

For the first time, she didn't cry because she failed to get what she wants - She cried because she sees the suffering of another person, and it hits her. She cried for others. She cried out of pity. She cried out of love.

 

Now, we know that Yesuh can set aside her pride for the one she loves, and I think,  this is one if the biggest  developments of a character in the entire series. 

Hi @SaiSai1988, I love your insights! The moment when I read that Yesuh changed her outlook I decided to watch episode 17 closely.  

I also like to add that Yesuh's first break down was when she saw Woojoo's mom on her knees, begging Kwak Mi Yang to help. The vulnerability and fragility of Woojoo's mom touched Yesuh's heart. She got down on her knees, apologized everything for what she has done to Kwak Mi Yang, and lastly apologized for being the mom of Woojoo. It simply tugged anyone's heart. A mother's pain and love is quite powerful. And if anything, that was probably Yesuh's first time seeing a mother that vulnerable because her own mother hides many secrets from her. It really was Yesuh's time "to wake up". 

 

When Yesuh visited Woojoo and saw him wear prison clothes on the other side, she probably thought that could have been her. That is probably the reason she broke down and apologized. She is still infatuated with Woojoo. She is still selfish, but her wall is slowly breaking down. Her reality is slowly breaking down. 

 

Her altered perception mirrors her dad's questioning of his own life decisions and actions. That scene when he meets up with his mother in public was beautiful. We see him pounding on the table and yelling at the top of his lungs. He does not care about his pride or his mom's pride. He simply expresses his opinions, "I listened to you. I studied hard. I got into medical school. I am going to be the President of the hospital. But I lost my daughter, HyeNa. My greed and ambitions took me away." His world is shaking while his mom still cares about her pride and remains stoic in front of her friends. He is sitting there blaming his decisions and actions on his mom because he simply feels hopeless and lost. It is truly tragic that he is now aware of himself, but better now than never! 

 

The stoic demeanor in his mother slowly seeps into Kwak Mi Yang. She has conscience. That one second thought of worrying about Woojoo and almost calling his mother on the phone shows that she has conscience. But her ambition of getting her daughter into medical school gets to her. Her mother in-law telling her to get Ye Suh into medical school is probably in her mind, especially in the beginning of the drama she kneels in front of her mother in-law for money; when she leaves the house, she says she will be better than her mother in-law. In reality, both of these females are the same, driven by ambition; filled with pride; and lack of humanity.

 

Kwak Mi Yang's moments of breaking down by herself, especially in her own room, gives me a little bit of hope that she will slightly change. As long as Ye Suh and her dad get their acts together, they can do it. Lastly, I think Ye Bin will always be the anchor of the family that wakes up every one else. I can't wait to see how this family evolves in the next episodes. 

Edited by ponderings
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5 hours ago, Ahmad Kamil said:

Started watching this two days ago and already caught up to episode 17. Really good one to replace Children of Nobody. The good thing with this drama is the comedic relief of Prof Cha and Dr. Woo's family, hence it is not too dark and depressing.

It is matter of who is lesser evil and those who admit and repent for their mistakes. His conversation with his mom in the hotel cafe shows that how he has been living.

I am glad you pointed out that hotel cafe scene. I thought it was beautifully directed and shot, too.

I like how he ultimately took his anger towards his mother and questioned his life actions and decisions that was prepared by his mom. His anger built up especially when throughout the drama he has been complaining about his wife, "You only care about university! University! University!"

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As expected Episode 17 has not disappointed.  Be forewarned - keep the tissue box handy.  It's brutal viewing - the tear ducts get a big work out.  The acting was brilliant all round.

 

2 families.  Both trapped.  Both with children to protect/save.  Both desperate and in despair.  One family stands united (loved the scene at the jail visitation - hands together, all in).  The other divided, torn asunder, each battling their own demons in isolation.  What will tonight bring us?  More of the same I have no doubt.  Every week I think, "surely this week will be the week where writer Nim drops the ball and we get a lull"...but no...every week, she raises the bar and keeps me invested.  Bravo.  Can't wait for more!  :sweatingbullets:

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Actually, do you think Mr Jo was working on his own when he took pictures of the guard retrieving the money? Like building evidence against KJY for the ultimate reveal?

 

I'm hoping YS gets a chance to retake the papers, rather than being expelled. She didn't know after all. Sure void the last result, but give her a chance to redeem herself. Now I get why HyeNa said it was very unfair when she got her results. She knew then that KJY had cheated, but she didn't immediately out them. 

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Well, obviously we know this secret won't last until the end of the semester with Yeseo's dad hungry for revenge. I have mixed feelings about HSJ/KMH tbh. On one hand, she's cruel and deserves punishment for being an accomplice, but on the other hand I feel really bad for her. I can tell she really wants to help Woo Joo and his mom, but her daughter's future is on the line.

 

I'm glad Yeseo's dad realized his mother isn't all that great.

 

2 hours ago, herina_90 said:

Actually, do you think Mr Jo was working on his own when he took pictures of the guard retrieving the money? Like building evidence against KJY for the ultimate reveal?

 

Yeah, he seemed pretty done with KJY and I think he'll be the one to unveil everything (or the one to testify against her in court or something), since he has solid evidence to prove she is the mastermind behind all this.

 

 

Edited by auberon
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The expelled scene that the twins said inside the class were just a nightmare that YS had..

 

9 hours ago, herina_90 said:

Actually, do you think Mr Jo was working on his own when he took pictures of the guard retrieving the money? Like building evidence against KJY for the ultimate reveal?

I really hope so that Mr Jo is the one who will reveal the truth. He keeps questioning whether they had to go so far. It means he too feels uncomfortable with whatever Coach Kim decided. 

It will be a perfect revenge and karma for KJY being stabbed by someone she trusted.

 

spoiler for ep 19

 

Cha family : NSH made a big decision when CMH choose the pyramid.

Spoiler

She asked for a divorce. She won't do it if he get rid off the pyramid and change his way of speaking to their children and mind. But he still thinks that he is right and made NSH signed the divorce paper and left the house.

 

 

 

CMH scolded the twins after they making a statement to the police. He told them to not waste the time and use it to study since they are in their final year. He even mocked them for thinking WJ as their friend. They can't have a friend who is a suspect and probably have no future.

SR who overheard it, said indirectly said that everything that her father said is nonsense.

When CMH scolded NSH for being too soft and told the twins to not become a failure, SR snapped at him.

 

SR: Are you calling me a failure?!
CMH: Why? Did I say anything wrong?

SR: Why am I a failure? Your life is actually the failure. It is said that if the children respect/admire the parents then they have lead a successful life. Joon Twins, do you admire Dad?
KJ: Admire him?  Tsk, If I could, it would be nice
SJ: Me too.. I wished I could

SR: Did you see it, Dad? The failure is not me, but you! It's you! You are so pitiful. You only get zero! You are at the bottom! At the very lowest !

CMH: Shut your mouth! This brat, how dare you raise your voice
NSH: Honey

CMH: This is because you are too soft on her that she is very messed like this

NSH: I have something to say. Let's go sit down and talk. SR, you sit too. Twins, you guys too.

 

 

CMH: How can all you of you sit when she say it?! Just say it here.

NSH: Do you want to hear it while you are standing?
CMH: Just say it!

NSH: I can no longer live with you

CMH: What did you say?

NSH: What about you guys?  

SR: I can't live with Dad any longer

Twins: We too

CMH: You can't? What are you going to say?

NSH: Cha Min Hyuk. Let's get a divorce

I have a condition. I want you to get rid off that pyramid immediately. You have to stop forcing your way of thought about education towards our children and stop referring them as an idiot or useless. I want you to appreciate and respect the fact that our children is different from you. 

CMH: What did you say?

NSH: If you can't do anything of my request, I'm going to divorce you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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JTBC released a whole video on Mr Jo - Can't tell what they're saying without subs,  but I'm sure he's going to be the final nail in the coffin when the reveal finally takes place. I want Coach Kim to properly go to jail for what she's done though.

 

 

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We’re heading into the final stretch now...and everything is starting to unravel. I actually found episodes 17 and 18 a little slow. Yesterday was Yeh Suh’s awakening, today it’s Kang Joon Sang...

 

But I like how his story, and his relationship with his mother unraveled.

 

Sometime back I read a study of university students in Singapore (where I’m from) and students expressed sadness that “my parents only like the child who gets good grades, they don’t love me for who I am.”

 

And for Kang Joon Sang to say 

Spoiler

“I’m still your son, even if I’m not the director at the hospital. I’m still your son, right?”

 

in that tone of a child pleading for his parent’s affection.

 

That broke me. That was just heartbreaking.

 

The writer’s message to all the helicopter parents out there is clear—do we want our kids to say this to us in the future?

 

As Kang Joon Sang said to his mom in ep 17:

 

“I’m almost 50, and I don’t even know how to live my life because of you.”

 

P.S. in answer to my question last night, how many of you would be willing to sacrifice your child’s future? I saw some Korean forum articles about this. And the sad thing is, most people said they would choose to do exactly what Kwak Mi Hyang is doing - to protect their child’s future.

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 I've yet to watch the new episodes with subs.  Thank you weekend. I'm about to.

 

You know.. I've been been here from the very start.. and still I'm loving this drama. Happy the latter episodes there's been many chingus discussing every episodes. I don't have the eloquence to put in to words what I want to say so good to see others take of each eps.

 

The critical  success of this drama proves you don't need  big big name stars to carry a drama. Good story good acting good script good directing is the formula. Well done JTBC. I hope the drama gets to reap awards.

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How anyone has sympathy for Han Seo Jin ill never get she has done nothing good this entire show and has just caused suffering after suffering its like if she killed someone directly people would still defend her i dont get it. 

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@jongski Your presence in this forum is just enough. I am so glad I have you and other people to discuss about the drama! It makes it even more enjoyable. I just watched episode 18 without subs. It's really good even without the subs. 

Love it when they show the scene where Kwak Mi Yang and her husband drive their cars separately to meet Coach Kim and they have to spiral down into the garage. It parallels with the first few episodes where KMY constantly has to go down that spiral in order "to follow the path the success". I seriously can't wait to watch ep 18 subbed and 7 more days until the finale! Yikes! 

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8 hours ago, auberon said:

Well, obviously we know this secret won't last until the end of the semester with Yeseo's dad hungry for revenge. I have mixed feelings about HSJ/KMH tbh. On one hand, she's cruel and deserves punishment for being an accomplice, but on the other hand I feel really bad for her. I can tell she really wants to help Woo Joo and his mom, but her daughter's future is on the line.

 

I'm glad Yeseo's dad realized his mother isn't all that great.

 

 

Yeah, he seemed pretty done with KJY and I think he'll be the one to unveil everything (or the one to testify against her in court or something), since he has solid evidence to prove she is the mastermind behind all this.

 

 

 

I dont feel bad for her at all and i dont see why anyone else would she shows sympathy after already doing the deed and doing nothing to solve it.. wow good job . Shes a evil witch who the hell care's if your daughters future is on the line. 

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