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[Drama 2019] The Crowned Clown/The Man Who Became King, 광해 / 왕이 된 남자


Jillia

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2 hours ago, Jillia said:

I think Dal Rae is way too young for Lee Hun and he looks like her brother, so I think we can erase any romance off the board.  I think it would be nice though if Dal Rae would help Lee Hun to come back to reality.

 

They somehow need to solve the problem of Dal Rae being outside the palace in need of her brother who is inside the palace, pretending to be the king.

I think as you do on this point.
I would also like DR and LH to heal each other, she needs a big brother and he is haunted by the death of his younger brother.
concerning HS and her queen, I don't know how she will take the revelation of the deception ...
Finally, 3 things are certain, HS will not stay at the palace, he's shows too much his bohemian and vagabond to make a king locked up to the end of his life.
According to the first 4 episodes, the queen has never been able to live in the palace either, she's struggling to survive.
Finally, LH is the king! I think he will fight for cure, and fatally he will resume his place as king, he was born and was trained to that, this role is his life.
I would like an end with the queen accepts her love for the clown and the king lets them go free together, after all the efforts that HS has made for him to recover his place in the palace, Perhaps also after finding of humanity with DR and realize that the queen barely survives ... I know it sounds utopian, but it would be the ideal end for me ...

 

Our happy couple on the road with the clowns, and the king in his place of ruler with all his spirit back who would reign honorably and comfortably.^_^

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Yi Heon is still alive but definitely not well. He's actually in the teaser for the next episode.

 

Source: theqoo
7KXRKxL.png

 

This is so heartbreaking to look at. Yi Kyu got him tied up so he wouldn't harm himself. :( You guys remember there's an eye peeking at Yi Heon's room at the temple? I believe that's Dallae. I agree with @rittoo, Yi Heon's living in guilt for the death of his brother, while Dallae is definitely in need of her older brother in times like this. And these two people could help heal one another. I wonder if they would mistake him for Haseon, I mean Yi Heon's still aware that he's Yi Heon and Dallae couldn't speak. How shocking would it be for Dallae to mistake Yi Heon as Haseon. Imagine thinking your brother's out for revenge and you suddenly find him locked up in a room with his hands tied. I can't wait to see how it plays out.


@vladlola06 That is exactly the ending I want to have as well! :D 

 

Although the Queen thinks it's Yi Heon she's falling in love with, it's still not Yi Heon. Sowoon has said how living in the palace has been suffocating, but the moment Haseon arrives, her heart immediately opens up to the kind of character that Haseon is. He may be using Yi Heon's identity, but it's his personality and simple deeds that made the Queen finally open up and have that sincere, bright smile in what could be years.

 

Of course a proper relationship should be built with trust and honesty, and we will definitely get to that point eventually.

 

Yi Heon and Haseon are currently walking in two diverse paths at the moment, but their roads would eventually wind down towards one direction. They've got bad guys to bring down. 

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i hope the queen never forgives his husband LH because what kind of a man will let his wife be around a complete stranger like doesn't he cares about her virtue.i know the clown will not want to go to bed with the queen but rite now her heart is melting and soon she gonna want to give the king a child or maybe not.i know the queen has been shown as a nice person but i bet she too has a dark side or maybe not.like how did she survive all those snakes of a concubines.

   i was curious about how LH would have handled the greedy concubines poisoning situation.,like would he have killed all the maids of the queen just to made the left hand minister happy ,or shove poison down the concubines throat or maybe punish the queen.Like i couldn't believe it when he ordered to have the queens father executed, because after they had killed her father they would immediately have asked the queen to be disposed. im wondering why there is no prince or princess in the palace, does that means that LH wasn't sleeping with any of the concubine because if that's the case then they must really hate the queen.im i the only person who likes chief court lady kim i like her facial expressions but she creeps me out 

 

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8 hours ago, rittoo said:

But will the writers really give LH the chance to heal and learn to love again? I wish for it but I doubt it.

 

So no redemptive arc?  Just more madness and insanity?  Potentially add raging jealousy to the mix when he discovers HS has in fact taken his place as the Queen's preferred significant other?  Which would prompt his return to the Palace to restake his claim to the throne and his wife?  Which in turn leads to his demise so that the Clown and Queen have their happy ever after?

 

Maybe the writer will let him regain his senses once the drugs get out of his system and his hallucinary paranoia subsides with it.  I would like to see a redemptive arc for LH but that's a personal preference.  So like you I wish for it but unlike you I am hopeful that the writer will pen it in. :)  I am still not entirely convinced he had his little brother poisoned.  Why bother sending him away to exile?  Why not just have him poisoned in the holding cell?  He may be guilt ridden because he felt like he was the harbinger of death by sending him to exile but I somehow feel like he meant it when he promised to bring him back after a while.  So I see glimpses of his humanity.  

 

Did you see how shattered the Queen was after that scene where they share that tender moment as she cleans the blood off him and takes his stained outer robes off?  She basically renews her vows to him and reaffirms her love for him (I will laugh with you, cry with you, I will stay by your side) thinking that it would be enough to calm him down and make him stay...she had been the one refusing him before remember?  She thought she had his love.  HS refuses her :o.  She did not see it coming.  Shoe is on the other foot now.  She no longer has hold of him like she thought she did.  Whereas before she was on surer footing as to where she stood in his eyes, now she isn't so sure.  Whole new ballgame.

 

HS behaved in exactly the same way LH did when he realized how dangerous it was in the Palace.  So they were no different in their response.  It was only that HS's desire for vengeance superseded his fear that he returned.  LH will need to experience the same to battle those demons.  What possible feeling would be powerful enough to supersede his fear of death?  It would be the love for his Queen.  The righteous jealousy that is rightfully his to have because he made promises to her and she returned in kind.  She was his wife and no other man should be taking his place in her heart.  Personally I don't think LH ever stopped loving his Queen.  She was the one refusing him remember?  He doesn't have to relearn how to love her.  He already does.    As for why he would let some other Clown take his place in the interim, he is assuming that it will be status quo, that the Queen will continue to refuse him (HS) like he did him (LH).  He didn't care about the other concubines, it was just his Queen that mattered.

 

The longer the Clown HS plays the King and lives a lie, the harder it is going to be when the Queen finds out the truth.  But I guess this is KDrama after all and the writer has thus far succeeded in keeping my attention.

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30 minutes ago, nrllee said:

Maybe the writer will let him regain his senses once the drugs get out of his system and his hallucinary paranoia subsides with it.  I would like to see a redemptive arc for LH but that's a personal preference.  So like you I wish for it but unlike you I am hopeful that the writer will pen it in. :)  I am still not entirely convinced he had his little brother poisoned.  Why bother sending him away to exile?  Why not just have him poisoned in the holding cell?  He may be guilt ridden because he felt like he was the harbinger of death by sending him to exile but I somehow feel like he meant it when he promised to bring him back after a while.  So I see glimpses of his humanity. 

Sorry to cut your post. :)

 

I'm actually unsure whether he knew about the poisoining or not. IF he hadn't ordered it, yes he could still feel guilty about what happened to his brother since he didn't do anything to protect him. On the other hand, maybe he did knew it would happen and he sent his younger brother away to make it look like he is merciful enough to let his brother live, even if it's in exile.

 

One way or the other: he is struck by guilt which doesn't redeem him but at least shows he isn't a man without empathy. It doesn't make what he did right. Because he did order the execution of the Queen's father. He did order the torture of those officials who are - maybe? - working against him. So he definitely isn't without fault no matter what. But I would accept a well-written redemption which in the end can still mean he will try to do better than he did before and still live with the guilt until the end.

 

I think we've seen he is drugging himself, even outside the palace, so he doesn't have to confront himself and so he doesn't have to face reality and all the guilt which is haunting him. Because if he would be clear he would have to face everything he has done. He needs to reach this point in the drama, so he can actually become redeemable.

 

I think for me: I want some sort of redemption. Again, they can't really keep him away from the palace. In the end he is the king and the only way to keep him away from the palace forever is to kill him off. After watching the first 2 episodes I had this idea at first the drama could end like this:

Spoiler

Ha Seon turns out to be the better king, despite his lack of education and so on, so in the end Lee Kyu becomes his supporter and when Lee Hun wants to return he is laughed off as the crazy clown.

 

But I'm unsure if I would like this ending because in the end Ha Seon has no education. Yes, he is a good human being and his intentions can be well-meant but back then it's pretty much impossible to be in a leading position without being able to read documents etc. Just for that he would've to depend on others.

 

And the more important part: Ha Seon, just like So Woon, doesn't feel like a person who is made to be in the palace for his whole life. So it remains to be seen whether he actually would want to stay and pretend to be Lee Hun forever. Which I don't believe is the case.

 

 

But we're in for a interesting ride when it comes to both, Ha Seon and Lee Hun. :D

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42 minutes ago, Jillia said:

I'm actually unsure whether he knew about the poisoining or not. IF he hadn't ordered it, yes he could still feel guilty about what happened to his brother since he didn't do anything to protect him. On the other hand, maybe he did knew it would happen and he sent his younger brother away to make it look like he is merciful enough to let his brother live, even if it's in exile.

 

One way or the other: he is struck by guilt which doesn't redeem him but at least shows he isn't a man without empathy. It doesn't make what he did right. Because he did order the execution of the Queen's father. He did order the torture of those officials who are - maybe? - working against him. So he definitely isn't without fault no matter what. But I would accept a well-written redemption which in the end can still mean he will try to do better than he did before and still live with the guilt until the end.

 

I think we've seen he is drugging himself, even outside the palace, so he doesn't have to confront himself and so he doesn't have to face reality and all the guilt which is haunting him. Because if he would be clear he would have to face everything he has done. He needs to reach this point in the drama, so he can actually become redeemable.

 

Agreed re : poisoning.  I really believe he meant it when he made that promise to his brother.  He knows his brother is dead, if the Queen Dowager knew, he should surely know too?  The apparition he sees of his brother looks like a child poisoned (the boy says, "my stomach hurts"), not beheaded or stabbed.  You are also correct that he is 'hiding' from his inner demons that plague him by numbing his senses with opium.  Locking him up and denying him of the drug is essentially similar to 'cold turkey' treatment to wean people off drugs.  So I do think that as the episodes unfold and his lucidity returns, we may yet see a different side to LH (away from the crazy Palace) and potentially brought back to human form again with his encounter with Dalae?  It seems imminent - why else have them holed up in the same monastery?

 

Yes to the point where he needs to repent of his deeds beforehand.  I guess the question most people raise is - is there a point in one's life where you've done so much bad that no amount of repenting will cut it and you are placed in the irredeemable basket and death would be the only means for redemption?  I am actually in the camp where I believe nobody is irredeemable.  So as long has he repents, he's on that path of redemption for me already.  It doesn't necessarily excuse all the pain and suffering he has caused in the past, but it will certainly change his future trajectory and that's sufficient for me.

 

I guess it's KDrama after all, but I want to know what poison works so fast that kills almost instanteously after consumption?  Only cyanide comes to mind and I am not sure it results in bloody vomiting. :lol:

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Personally I think it would be more realistic if LH did order the killing of his younger brother. I know this drama is not meant to be realistic, but I like it better myself if there are more stakes in the sense of people have to make really hard choices and not everything will turn out well just because of some writer miracle :D LH lives in a killed or be killed environment, his little brother had not learned it yet but he, too, would have had to learn it had he survived. It doesn't mean that LH likes killing, or has no feelings. On the contrary this environment is driving him out of his mind. If he does what he has to do, the guilt will follow him into and out of his dreams, if he doesn't, he dies. 

 

Btw in the scene where HS was almost thrown from the cliff I thought, HS was so brave and did not hesitate in the face of the sword the minister pointed at him, but he showed fear when he was on that precipipe. I think it's not death itself that scares you but the repeated acute threat of it. You can screw yourself up to face death, but when it seems to come close again and again and you never know when it's coming? That's what drives a person mad and terrified. I think that's what happened to LH.

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1 hour ago, nrllee said:

I guess it's KDrama after all, but I want to know what poison works so fast that kills almost instanteously after consumption?  Only cyanide comes to mind and I am not sure it results in bloody vomiting. :lol:

 

Hahaha I also wondered at how quick the poison takes effect in this drama. But then again, they have a running time they need to follow so they're probably no longer trying to portray the poisoning too realistically time-wise.

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11 minutes ago, circulate9oo said:

 

Hahaha I also wondered at how quick the poison takes effect in this drama. But then again, they have a running time they need to follow so they're no longer trying to portray the poisoning too realistically time-wise.

Actually it was changed for the purpose of showing execution by poison in dramas. Historical documents show that the poison took at least an hour or even two until it actually kicked in. So it was a pretty cruel way to die.

 

Especially since the name of the poison was "sayak", containing the word "death" and "medicine". So translation would be "deathly medicine". Which is such a contradiction. A "medicine" which leads to the person to suffocate, bleed and vomit.

 

In the case of Lee Hun's brother, they apparently mixed the poison in his food, so realistically it may have taken even  longer even if it were historically accurate. But of course for drama purposes we are lucky that we didn't have to sit through two episodes of an poisoning execution, especially of a child.

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True @Jillia  The size of the king’s harem is pretty normal in most historical Asian dramas. And agree with you , errr. ....no to LH -Dal Rae romance :crazy:

 

———/——-

 

So for me right now ( at least up to eps 3) I don’t care much about the real king because hey he did murder his own Brother or was implied to have done so   . Sure it’s for survival given the times they were living in , but it does not negate the fact that it was a choice he made & it was pre meditated . Whatever I have been shown of LH  supposed potential & who he could have been if not under the influence, has been told to me and not shown . The drama will have to do a lot more to convince me that I should root for him. LH has many demons to overcome . Having said that , I believe that the preview is just to mislead us , I don’t think the Chief Secretary has really given up on LH. 

 

Since I have no pre conceived expectations of the direction & plot of this drama , I am very happy as to how things are going . The focus on HS’s perspective is necessary  to show us that the job of the king is not an enviable position .And I suppose it indirectly explains to us why LH had so many insecurities.  At this point, I don’t know if I want HS to be the king for real . 

 

What makes the premise of the show so heart wrenching for me is that her heart is falling for HS because he is the LH she had been hoping for  . I know it’s only a matter of time , she will realise HS is not LH  . I can imagine she’d be angry & feel betrayed. But after all that initial rage  , i wonder if she’d realise the small kind gestures & brave acts to protect her are genuine , and that’s what & who she is falling for . Can she forgive him ? Will she ever leave the palace & LH for civilian life ? ...I’m jumping the gun here of course ..but feeling mighty nervous for my HS-SW ship .   :ph34r:

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14 hours ago, triplem said:

Having said that , I believe that the preview is just to mislead us , I don’t think the Chief Secretary has really given up on LH. 

 

I totally agree.  I think the Chief Secretary is upset because the real king is so ill.  He may even feel guilty that he can't be at LH's side all day to care for him and prevent him from injuring himself.  But he also sees potential in our clown, so he's taking a chance and rolling the dice in the off-chance LH can't survive detox from the opium and whatever else he was taking, Chief Secretary is going to (finally!!) groom HS and use HS to increase the power of the king's position.  Because really, the king's seems like the least powerful faction of the three that exist (Dowager faction, Left State faction, and the king's). 

 

I found myself very, very curious to know just why SoWoon was the queen chosen for LH.  What sort of political power did her family have to offer to the previous king?  Or was it a love match?  She is obviously very smart, but where are the ministers that supported her family?  Are they too scared to speak up or visit her now that her father has been exiled?  Why aren't they even trying to support her? 

 

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2 hours ago, yonaomi123 said:

 

 

I found myself very, very curious to know just why SoWoon was the queen chosen for LH.  What sort of political power did her family have to offer to the previous king?  Or was it a love match?  She is obviously very smart, but where are the ministers that supported her family?  Are they too scared to speak up or visit her now that her father has been exiled?  Why aren't they even trying to support her? 

 

 

According to Sowoon's character description in the official website, the Queen (who is currently the Queen Dowager in the story) already had a crown princess she would like to recommend, but Yi Heon received an advice from Yi Kyu to choose Sowoon and after Yi Heon's strong insistence, she entered the palace that year. 

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Nah..I don't think Royal Chief Secretary has given up on LH. I think he thought initially it was just going to be a week at most.  He assumed sending LH away from the Palace (from the immediate threats around him) would be sufficient to bring him back to his senses but he's realised that he was mistaken.  It never removed the perceived threats in his (LH) mind.  That's why he stabbed HS. He realised that the ruse will take longer than he had envisaged so he needs the Clown play the King for longer. And the longer he plays the King the higher the chances he will get caught. Lady Kim will be dressing and bathing him (?) so that scar on the King's left shoulder needs to be on the Clown too. Concerted efforts would be necessary to bring him up to speed with reading documents and the King's idiosyncrasies told him.  You could see how frustrated he was at the situation.  He took out his anger on the poor hapless HS on that mountaintop. He had gone through this whole rigmarole for the King's benefit (LH) and instead of him (LH) doing his part by getting clean and recovering (he's in a monastery for a reason - self reflection and healing?), he seems to be doing nothing to help himself and making it worse by looking for the drug himself and descending into more madness.  Even the monk cannot hide his disgust. 

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3 hours ago, circulate9oo said:

 

According to Sowoon's character description in the official website, the Queen (who is currently the Queen Dowager in the story) already had a crown princess she would like to recommend, but Yi Heon received an advice from Yi Kyu to choose Sowoon and after Yi Heon's strong insistence, she entered the palace that year. 

Sounds like Lee Kyu had a crown princess in mind who would be inpartial. Because the Dowager Queen would place a woman next to Lee Hun to ensure her power is stable and a woman who can influence the Crown Prince and even assist in any plans against him.

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Shin Chisoo and Court Lady Kim conspired to make Yi Heon overly drug-dependent. The withdrawal will take him some time and it will be a very painful and agonizing period for Yi Heon. I pity him that he ended up resorting to self-harm because of his hallucinations. In the next episode, we will see that he has to be tied up and locked up as a result. I hope he gets better soon. 

 

But I agree, I also don't think Yi Kyu has given up on Yi Heon. Like you said @nrllee, the situation is already in need of an urgent solution and the King couldn't come back to rule any time soon. Yi Kyu needs to take the matters into his own hands and install Haseon for good until the King can recover himself. He can't just keep letting Shin Chisoo usurp all the power by telling Haseon to look the other way while they wait for Yi Heon's orders. Haseon needs to rule properly and Yi Kyu has seen what great potential Haseon has as a leader. 

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I have been unsure about starting this series because I read that the king is using drug... I guess in some side it is understanding that they want to show how far he could go in his madness. but at the same time I feel it is limiting him as a character. To me it would have been more interesting having him taking the clown place and also see for himself how his people is living. this way he could grow as a character and also make this a story about the king and the clown.  I mean there is just not much a writer could do with a character that is dealing with this kind of addiction and withdrawal. Also Opium is a very deathly drug and  very addicting. It make me scared for him and his health. frankly I am surprised that they even talk about drug in a kdrama.  

 

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44 minutes ago, sal2 said:

I have been unsure about starting this series because I read that the king is using drug... I guess in some side it is understanding that they want to show how far he could go in his madness. but at the same time I feel it is limiting him as a character. To me it would have been more interesting having him taking the clown place and also see for himself how his people is living. this way he could grow as a character and also make this a story about the king and the clown.  I mean there is just not much a writer could do with a character that is dealing with this kind of addiction and withdrawal. Also Opium is a very deathly drug and  very addicting. It make me scared for him and his health. frankly I am surprised that they even talk about drug in a kdrama.  

 

 

It's only the 4th episode, I'm 99% sure Yi Heon won't be locked up in that room looking for drugs for the rest of the drama, especially now that it's been implied that him and Dallae would eventually meet up. There's a reason the writers put the two together in the same place.

 

There are so many ways they could take that story and I believe the writers would work on a path for Yi Heon's self-recovery and seeing another side of the world that he never knew in his sheltered and toxic life in the palace. For example, as a wishful thinking of mine~ I'd love it if they can make Yi Heon teach Dallae learn how to read/write, given that Yi Heon is a bookworm.

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4 minutes ago, circulate9oo said:

 

It's only the 4th episode, I'm 99% sure Yi Heon won't be locked up in that room looking for drugs for the rest of the drama, especially now that it's been implied that him and Dallae would eventually meet up. There are so many ways they could take that story and I believe the writers would work on a path for Yi Heon to self-recovery and seeing another side of the world that he never knew in his sheltered and toxic life in the palace.

 

You right it is early in the drama, and still room for character growth :) I hope he is not to lost, and can get  affected meeting new people. Also when I think back reading what PD said about this is a story about how making new relationship gonna have e warm affect in the character in the drama, I think she also talk about the king. I guess it is me that have a very negative thought about drugs and make me hesitate when it is shown in a show. but at least compared to many american show they are not romantic it. 

 

I am gonna watch it this weekend, it is also allot that draw me in to want to watch also :) 

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