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Okay. So my eyes didn’t deceive me right? One of the two neanthals is played by Nick Khun? 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Gumiho9 said:

Saya looked like a vampire with that makeup and cloak:D And the way he just walked in and out of the castle in the night with no problem was so funny.

 

And it's the second time he murders someone with no second thoughts or regrets. With all the scheming, cold blooded murders and manipulations he really does act like Tagon's son.

 

The last two episodes of part 2 should be very interesting. I think Tagon will be forced to do what Saya wants him to do which is embracing his Igutu identity and naming Saya his heir after becoming king of Arthdal.

 

 

@Gumiho9 said Saya looks like a vampire.

 

Saya is a creature of his environment, seeing how the elders kill without regret (he saw Tagon killed his own soldier when they found out that Saya is an Igutu), as long as it serves their purpose.  So killing other doesn't bother him.  Note that he always looks so weak, letting Tanya beat him up and not practicing martial art when Hae Tuak was trying to teach him... but he is a sly Igutu (who is not as weak as he pretends).  He was able to learn to kill bird with a sling shortly after Tanya taught him.

 

In many way he is an innocent child who doesn't know right from wrong (he is not sure why Tanya was horrified that he kill some one unimportant, because it's not in the strategy book that he has read)...much like a young boy would burn an ant or step on a lizard without 2nd thought.  Tanya who came from a simpler and fairer background, and had suffered brutality at the hand of the strongs, is slowly teaching Saya to do the kind thing.  Guniho9 is right.  Saya does look like a vampire!

 

The 2 neanthals at the end of episode 10  are well dressed in modern Arthdal clothing.  One of them may be the child that Asa Rin talked to in the 1st episode after her her neanthal husband was killed.  Who fed, clothed and taught them civilized habits all these years?  Probably the Society of White Peak Mountain's Hearts who seemed more peaceful (like the Wahan themselves) and probably opposed to the extermination of the neanthals.  This sect is probably the original religion which was hijacked by Asa Ron and his group.  Tanya would fit in well with these folks.

 

Kind of remind this reader of early Christianity during 1st century  Roman time where it's teaching of love thy neighbors was suppressed.  The irony is that what they practice was probably the original religious teachings!... but how can you expand an empire and enslave others with that kind of religion?

 

 

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15 minutes ago, vangsweetie637 said:

Okay. So my eyes didn’t deceive me right? One of the two neanthals is played by Nick Khun? 

 

 

Yes, Rottib is played by Nickhun.

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35 minutes ago, tiger457_stv said:

@Gumiho9 said Saya looks like a vampire.

 

Saya is a creature of his environment, seeing how the elders kill without regret (he saw Tagon killed his own soldier when they found out that Saya is an Igutu), as long as it serves their purpose.  So killing other doesn't bother him.  Note that he always looks so weak, letting Tanya beat him up and not practicing martial art when Hae Tuak was trying to teach him... but he is a sly Igutu (who is not as weak as he pretends).  He was able to learn to kill bird with a sling shortly after Tanya taught him.

 

In many way he is an innocent child who doesn't know right from wrong (he is not sure why Tanya was horrified that he kill some one unimportant, because it's not in the strategy book that he has read).  Tanya who comes from a simpler and fairer background, is slowly teaching Saya to do the kind thing.  Guniho9 is right.  Saya does look like a vampire!

 

The 2 neanthals at the end of episode 10  are well dressed in modern Arthdal clothing.  One of them may be the child that Asa Rin talked to in the 1st episode after her her neanthal husband was killed.  Who fed, clothed and taught them civilized habits all these years?  Probably the Society of White Peak Mountain's Hearts who seemed more peaceful (like the Wahan themselves) and probably opposed to the extermination of the neanthals.  This sect is probably the original religion which was hijacked by Asa Ron and his group.  Tanya would fit in well with these folks.

 

Kind of remind this reader of early Christianity during 1st century  Roman time where it's teaching of love thy neighbors was suppressed.  The irony is that what they practice was probably the original religious teachings!... but how can you expand an empire and enslave others with that kind of religion?

 

 

The Roman Empire only authorized Christian religion in 313 AD and not before. From 64 AD to 305 AD, there were several waves of persecution against Christians (1st Century to the 4th century). The reasons for the persecution against Christians were multiple: socio-economical, political and religious. First, rumors against them were spreading making them suspicious, like f. ex. cannibalism, incest, disrupting the pax deorum because they didn't worship the imperator. People thought that disrupting "pax deorum" led to calamities, like civil wars or disease, invasions from the East aso.

Furthermore, christian religion preached equity which was quite new in such a hierarchical society. Only in 394 AD, Roman Empire became Christian and all the other religions became targeted and were forbidden. Actually, what you are describing fits more the Middle-Age. During the Middle-Age, many crusades (even against their own population like f. ex. against the Cathars in France) were proclaimed in the name of God, although love and tolerance are in the center of their theology. Strangely, Muslim State in Spain in the Middle-Age was far more tolerant than the Christian church back then. They let Jews and Christians practice their religion, whereas after the "reconquista", Jews and Muslims were forced to adopt Christian religion or were cast out/deported. 

Sorry for the History lesson but as a History teacher, I couldn't help myself intervening here.

   

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5 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

The Roman Empire only authorized Christian religion in 313 AD and not before. From 64 AD to 305 AD, there were several waves of persecution against Christians (1st Century to the 4th century). The reasons for the persecution against Christians were multiple: socio-economical, political and religious. First, rumors against them were spreading making them suspicious, like f. ex. cannibalism, incest, disrupting the pax deorum because they didn't worship the imperator. People thought that disrupting "pax deorum" led to calamities, like civil wars or disease, invasions from the East aso.

Furthermore, christian religion preached equity which was quite new in such a hierarchical society. Only in 394 AD, Roman Empire became Christian and all the other religions became targeted and were forbidden. Actually, what you are describing fits more the Middle-Age. During the Middle-Age, many crusades (even against their own population like f. ex. against the Cathars in France) were proclaimed in the name of God, although love and tolerance are in the center of their theology. Strangely, Muslim State in Spain in the Middle-Age were far more tolerant than the Christian church back then. They let Jews and Christians practice their religion, whereas after the "reconquista", Jews and Muslims were forced to adopt Christian religion or were cast out/deported. 

Sorry for the History lesson but as a History teacher, I couldn't help myself intervening here.

   

thanks bebebisous33   what happened to the cathars of southern france as part of the crusade was truly regrettable.  Unfortunately with the religious zeal of the crusade period, nothing short of orthodoxy was tolerated.  Every religion went through such period, even peaceful one like buddhism (during Japan's Sengoku warring era of the 15-16th century so many militaristic sects abound). 

It is unfortunate but when a group feels threaten they often use religion as a pretext for mayhem.

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34 minutes ago, tiger457_stv said:

thanks bebebisous33   what happened to the cathars of southern france as part of the crusade was truly regrettable.  Unfortunately with the religious zeal of the crusade period, nothing short of orthodoxy was tolerated.  Every religion went through such period, even peaceful one like buddhism (during Japan's Sengoku warring era of the 15-16th century so many militaristic sects abound). 

It is unfortunate but when a group feels threaten they often use religion as a pretext for mayhem.

Religion has always been a tool to legitimate power. An absolute monarch was supposed to be sent by god and a rebellion against such a sovereign meant that people were rioting against God. Even in the nazism, we could say that the national-socialist ideology is a pseudo-religion. Hitler was sometimes presented as a sort of messiah who was supposed to come to help Germany to survive. Deep down, Hitler even wanted to replace Christian religions with his "own religion" that's why he used a cross as symbol: the swastika. 

 

In AC, the fight between Tagon and Asa Ron reminds me of the investiture controversity from the Middle-Age. In the German Empire, the imperator and the pope were fighting against each other because one saw himself superior to the other. The pope was powerless without the imperator/king's support, on the other hand the German King couldn't receive the title imperator, if the pope refused to crown him. The pope didn't like the meddling of the king in the investiture of bishops. However, it had become a tradition that the king would choose the bishops in his kingdom so that he would be sure to be supported by them. He needed the support of bishops in order to reinforce his power. At some point, one pope wanted to put an end to this tradition and even threatened the king Henri IV to excommunicate him if he kept meddling in the investiture of bishops. Henri IV. was forced to lower himself in front of the pope as he walked to Canossa in simple clothes and barefoot. Just like Tagon in the last episode... Here, we witnessed how the future king legitimated his ruling with religion  and how the head of the church reacted as he felt his position threatened. In History, the German king and imperator lost the fight in the long term.     

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5 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

Religion has always been a tool to legitimate power. An absolute monarch was supposed to be sent by god and a rebellion against such a sovereign meant that people were rioting against God. Even in the nazism, we could say that the national-socialist ideology is a pseudo-religion. Hitler was sometimes presented as a sort of messiah who was supposed to come to help Germany to survive. Deep down, Hitler even wanted to replace Christian religions with his "own religion" that's why he used a cross as symbol: the swastika. 

 

In AC, the fight between Tagon and Asa Ron reminds me of the investiture controversity from the Middle-Age. In the German Empire, the imperator and the pope were fighting against each other because one saw himself superior to the other. The pope was powerless without the imperator/king's support, on the other hand the German King couldn't receive the title imperator, if the pope refused to crown him. The pope didn't like the meddling of the king in the investiture of bishops. However, it had become a tradition that the king would choose the bishops in his kingdom so that he would be sure to be supported by them. He needed the support of bishops in order to reinforce his power. At some point, one pope wanted to put an end to this tradition and even threatened the king Henri IV to excommunicate him if he kept meddling in the investiture of bishops. Henri IV. was forced to lower himself in front of the pope as he walked to Canossa in simple clothes and barefoot. Just like Tagon in the last episode... Here, we witnessed how the future king legitimated his ruling with religion  and how the head of the church reacted as he felt his position threatened. In History, the German king and imperator lost the fight in the long term.     

thank you for the above....  Ultimately the reformation in Germany split it into catholics and noncatholics camps... so I guess the Pope lost too!  Hope this arthdal political struggle won't split them into little bickering tribes again or else it's the stone agge again!

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3 minutes ago, tiger457_stv said:

thank you for the above....  Ultimately the reformation in Germany split it into catholics and noncatholics camps... so I guess the Pope lost too!  Hope this arthdal political struggle won't split them into little bickering tribes again or else it's the stone agge again!

Yes, the pope lost the fight in the long term too against the lords. With the reformation, the true winners were the lords.

In other words, first the German king had to fight against the pope (Christian Church) and lost some power due to the investiture quarrel. Then, the German king had to fight against the rising of lords and he also lost the fight against them. That's the reason why the German Empire wasn't united at all... little by little the sovereign lost his power and had only a title without much power. It disappeared with Napoleon in 1806.

 

Sorry for the History lesson again. On the other hand, this drama is really interesting because you can connect it to real History: genocide, slavery, investiture quarrel, evolution of humankind (Stone age - Bronze Age), the Neanderthals etc.

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Posted (edited)

ARTHDAL CHRONICLES THEORY  

*contains spoiler*

All this time I thought that ES is Arammun but today something came to my mind. Like said before when the world was created the three heavenly objects were sent to this world and also when the world is going to end they will come back. I believe in form of reincarnation. That means Tanya is reincarnation of Asa Sin and I think ES might actually be Risan's ik people will not agree I also want him to be Aramun but thinking about it they both loved each other and lived down in lark and also Saya might actually be Aramun. Because when u think about it the sword that will slay the world might be Risan if I am not wrong he was a warrior and also the bell is Asa Sin and her psychic powers and also the mirror might be Aramun so Saya. But I really don't know and I hope that Es is Aramun. Still the way the horse reacted "he's a weak one" really left me surprised I was wondering if there's also someone else.

Edited by bwnnygirl
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3 hours ago, vangsweetie637 said:

Okay. So my eyes didn’t deceive me right? One of the two neanthals is played by Nick Khun? 

 

 

I just realized it when my friend told me!! 

I thought he was Jang Geun Suk!!! 

But, after I rewatching it, finally I can see Nickhun there, hahaha

Shame of me, I am 2PM fans but cannot recognize him in the drama!

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On 6/30/2019 at 5:37 AM, tiger457_stv said:

This reader hopes for a realistic ending, not an utopian one where the tribes break up and each go their ways happily ever after.  That just doesn't happen.

My dear chingu, yes, it will not happen for utopian system, not in history and not in this era. First we need to understand why in primitive days,  the tribes were already started killing and exterminating other races for what reason? The strong ones can say whatever reasons like combining or exchanging resources with other race, ultimately their aim is not to stay harmony or form alliance, it's to take over their land and resources out of greed for power, if you recap the Ep1. The history has been repeated  by itself, even until now, we still can see countries fighting for land ownership. 

Utopian is just  an ideology for mankind hoping for this type of ideal society formed aiming for a fair and equal system (it's not what you mean break out the tribes and each go their own way happily ever after),  and I know it will not happen, simply because of human nature. However, Somehow human need to stay positive to make things happen in a slow and steady approach but a compromising way. My home country can accept diversity of race and embrace people otherness, giving credit to the first country leader and his powerful and enduring team. Having say that, it doesn't mean it will be forever happiness for his country people, it took many years of hard work to sustaining it, with the on-going education system for the people to understand the importance of staying harmony together with different races in the same country. 
 
Back to the drama, I am sure writer intention is not just simply exposing on the killing or wipe off other tribes, history had proven to us that any tribes (in today context call small countries) once they form alliance, it will be combined into one and then break away. Look at the strong one, Soviet Union previously, and broke into small one again and now we have Russia, Estonia, etc.
 
In my opinion, (I may be wrong) there may be two possible answers to come out at the end :
1. A new kingdom forming that likely an imperialism one (a realistic one)
2. Another positive and "perfect world" forming (since its a fantasy drama) that is hoping all the tribes staying in harmony that may run by ES (no more killing).
My guess is the writer spent 7 years to complete the story, he should have done enough researches. i would think he may give a positive msg at the end, just like we can see "some light at the end of tunnel". I really enjoyed this drama so far...:).
 
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hi Chingus,

i really love this drama and happy that netflix is uploading the drama very timely :)

however, there are only 2 episodes left :( and then we will wait for September.

i like it when ES snapped when Tanya already thought he died, and in the preview for the next episode, ES will bring his spirit to have a life back when Tanya learned that ES is not dead.. they are really connected with each other.

I just want Taelha and Tagon to be forever (haha cheesy it may sound) i love their chemistry.

Sanya is a bad richard simmons... 

and I hate the Wahan tribe people :/ 

 

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The writer keeps surprising me. First, I didn't expect Saya to realize that Tanya had been using him so soon and to propose a deal with her. Although Saya has a twisted view of the world due to his upbringing, I was pleased to see that there is still some goodness in him. Unlike his father who is obsessed with ambition and power so that he doesn't value human's life any longer, Saya can not accept to be alone again. We can see that Saya hates Tagon in reality because he enjoys thinking how Tagon was upset after he left the note. He wants to create chaos around Tagon so that the latter is not able to achieve his goal. Saya is not different from Eunseom in a sense that both accepted their own identity from the start. Both wondered about their origins but they wanted to belong to a family and place. That's why Saya didn't want Tanya to leave his side.

 

Tanya is Eunseom's strength... so when he had a dream, when he heard her saying that she regretted having met him, it really pained him so much. However, the hurt brought him back to life in my opinion. I would like Eunseom to take revenge on those people who tormented him so much. 

 

Mubaek is my favourite character right now because he is the only sane human here in Arthdal. Furthermore, I like him to be acting like a double agent.

I was expecting Asa Ron's downfall this week but it looks like he will be dethroned next week.   

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@bebebisous33 also i don't think that neanthals will go jumping on every saram now.. Ragaz has motive.... he wants to take revenge... though mubaek was shocked but looking at how calm ragaz is , Mubaek & Ragaz will surely come up with some solutions...

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23 minutes ago, LSGLMH_88 said:

@bebebisous33 also i don't think that neanthals will go jumping on every saram now.. Ragaz has motive.... he wants to take revenge... though mubaek was shocked but looking at how calm ragaz is , Mubaek & Ragaz will surely come up with some solutions...

But Ragaz died 20 years ago. The two Neanthals are the kids who survived the massacre and the hunt. They felt that CE's sister is an igutu that's why they approached her. 

I guess, Mubaek will tell them what he wants to do so that they will work together. I can see that the White Mountain Heart will join Mubaek's side. Right now, Tagon wants to destroy the White Mountain Heart but the moment Tanya joins them, Tagon can no longer do it. Tanya represents a thread to Asa Ron. I doubt that Tanya will let Tagon use her... 

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7 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

We can see that Saya hates Tagon in reality because he enjoys thinking how Tagon was upset after he left the note. He wants to create chaos around Tagon so that the latter is not able to achieve his goal.

He thinks Igutus are superior than others and wants Tagon to embrace his Igutu identity and rule Arthdal as a proud Igutu king with himself as his son and heir. so for now he wants Tagon to succeed and he is helping him in his own twisted way. He wants power but he needs Tagon to achieve it, without Tagon he is nothing and he knows it but of course things could change if he becomes the crown prince.

 

Btw, I think the older Neanthal is Itzrub, he was present in the meeting between Sarams and Neanthals  that happened twenty years ago. We don't know where the second Neanthal kid is yet.

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Looking forward to the next episode.Great story and  the actors are very good...who will be Tanya  husband?

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20 hours ago, Lukijong said:

The other Neanthal guy is Yiseuroobeu I think, he was also there at the meeting of Sanyeoks and Neanthals. Hence the other child that Asa Hon and Ragaz saved and raised still has not appeared yet.

 

Ahhh thanks for clearing that up! I must have missed his face in the earlier episodes. Saw some comments stating the other child was a girl.... which I never noticed in ep 1 either :sweatingbullets: The only disconcerting thing was how pale Nickhun was compared to the other Neanthal.... maybe he spent the past 20 years hiding in a cave?

 

I am hoping though they don't have Tanya hiding for the next 2 episodes - which seems to be the case with Tagon activating everyone to find her and her only shots being in the tree house... I want to see her out and about doing things! We already have ES stuck in a deep deep hole, at least let 2 out of 3 sacred objects be roaming about. 

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I am late since this weekend was too busy. These last two episodes moved the plot so fast! I love it when the writers don’t drag things out or dumb things down for the viewers. So much has happened in these episodes that by the end is episode10 - I was like noooooopo. Waiting for new episodes is really painful lol. 

 

Some thoughts:

Spoiler

I cried along with E and his captured friends. That whole suicide and the trauma E scenes was hard to watch. I lost it when he started to say the lines (´༎ຶོρ༎ຶོ`). The drama does remind us once again that we humans can be the most inhumane creatures to our own kind. The dream scene he had of Tanya was well done and yey - it snapped him out of the trauma. I pray to the drama gods that we get a reunion scene at the end of this season because can you imagine us all waiting until the last season?!?!  Happy that Tanya will find out soon that E is still alive and ohh how will this change her dynamic with S? 

 

All of Saya & Tanya scenes were amazing. I am loving their dynamic of who is really in control (the true master) and how it goes back and forth between them. Kudos to the writers for keeping us on our toes and making things NOT predictable. 

 

This show proves again why I support separation of state and religion lol. It is bad enough that power corrupts but when you add in the manipulation of faith and religion, sigh - it never works out well. On this note I was enjoying Saya’s strategic manipulations but at the same time he is totally endangering so many innocent lives (his own fellow White Heart ppl!) to spite his father for being ashamed + indirectly protect Tanya. I find his character most interesting at the moment. 

 

Yey N kids are grown up, still alive and back in the plot!! I like the idea of them and Mubaek joining forces to help E down the line.

 

 

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