[Drama 2018-2019] Fates and Furies 운명과 분노

[dramaninja]

1 hour ago, anony12345 said:

Looks like they went for the the brother as who was the one with Ae Ra's sister. Our guy In Joon has precisely zero allies as it looks like Ae Ra seems to think he's involved as well (they made a obvious ploy to show us his signature this episode but I couldn't see if it was the same one we saw on the hospital bill? Didn't look like it) so any hope of her wanting to help in the the next few episodes at least is obsolete. Everyone around him either wants to use him or wants to take revenge on him for something he probably wasn't involved in.

Think it's obvious now Soo Hyun was forced to leave the kid and Tae Oh - assuming the mother was like leave them now or the kid will never be safe. When they met in the lift it seemed like a bit of a "you're breaking our deal" when she saw her with the kid.

 

We thinking the daughter in law will get more involved now as she knows it was definitely In Joon's dad who ruined her family? I know In Joon didn't really grow up in that family, but he seems to have absolutely zero interaction with anyone other than his brother and father and even then that's rare. That family dynamic is interesting and considering we're already half way through could do with some more development at some point soon.

 

Going by the preview I wonder if Ae Ra found anything else to connect In Joon to her sister other than the signature that I assume she would at least try to confirm before she goes full marry and ruin him. Not enjoying how weak/dumb the In Joon character seems right now, he started the show of smart and calculating to get ahead of his dad. Now he's throwing everything away for a girl he has met for a few weeks and he also knows already she didn't exactly come there with good intention. The whole "I don' care if you're lying I still like you" seemed so weak/beta, not sure how he can be so naive. Admittedly if Lee Ming Jung was seducing me I'd fall for it in a heartbeat but this guy is meant to be smart. I really hope when everything comes out (assuming he had nothing to do with her sister) he's over this puppy love and not so forgiving.

 

I'm trying to understand the rationale of how he likes her this much so quickly and I'm struggling. No-one has really cared for him for a long time without wanting something from him after his mom, so anyone even showing him a bit of affection wins him over? I'm assuming that's what originally attracted her to him, but then he finds out she's most likely scheming and still doesn't seem to care?

 

Shame the show doesn't seem to be doing that well ratings wise - feel like it has a lot going for it

Well  both of them have the same passion in life it was the same  with his mother  who he really loved, so their bond became stronger much quicker.

 

Its is time they pull him out of the dark on some things though I dont like he is the only one not knowing anything.

 

[anony12345]

43 minutes ago, Ameera Ali said:

Good evening, I enjoyed reading ur post 

 

 

If I am allowed to say , he didn’t throw everything for nothing, he try when he get engaged to CSH to follow his dream , but he knows that he was selfish and his so called relationship with CSH wouldn’t work in the long term , because he is in love with other woman , going on with fake relationship it would be most selfish thing he could do towards everybody.that why he is trying to correct his wrong doing towards CSH and protect her family , he feels guilty in away . 

 

 You may think that he doesn’t think things through just like CSH but he seems to be naturally more impulsive than everybody give him credit for , that why I am not surprised he followed his heart just the way he try to kiss her first day they meet , I never see him bonding with someone as he bond with Hae Ra over their love for making shoes. He sees in her all characteristics and personality he goes for . 

 

I say nothing because he's continued to be so into this puppy love despite being told and shown pictures of Ae Ra clearly in some kind of scheme with Tae Oh. That's warning bells for any rational person but he's still going at a 100mph.

 

He has worked his entire life since his dad kicked him out to get revenge on the people responsible for his mothers death and get her company made for her. Yet by pursuing Ae Ra he's already willing to give up all that, despite knowing that her feelings may not be genuine and it was all most likely a scheme of some sort. A few episodes ago she literally tells him she's going out with Tae Oh and they come to the engagement party together but there's been no mention of that relationship by him so he must know it's not true and there's something dodge happening, but he doesn't seem to care.

 

Throwing it away without the affirmation that it's real and he's not being taken for a fool is the same as effectively throwing everything he has worked for away for nothing in my opinion. We know it won't be the case in kdrama land but if he did go through with everything in terms of giving up shares etc, and then she ruins him and leaves after the fact, that's the definition of throwing it away for nothing. No revenge, no moms company and no girl.

 

 

And a bit of a tangent on the above but it's becoming clearer why Soo Hyun is so intent on the wedding happening, especially if her mum made her give up the kid and Tae Oh. I wonder if her mom came to her whilst she was pregnant saying she has to marry In Joon (do we know when they got engaged?) for the company/families sake and threatens the kid if she doesn't. So knowing what she has had to give up for this marriage with In Joon to go ahead, throwing it away now for her would be the ultimate kick in the teeth. But then I wonder if she would be less close with her mom than she seems if the mom did that.

[Ameera Ali]

1 hour ago, anony12345 said:

I say nothing because he's continued to be so into this puppy love despite being told and shown pictures of Ae Ra clearly in some kind of scheme with Tae Oh. That's warning bells for any rational person but he's still going at a 100mph.

 

This not a  puppy love , he nearly lost her when thug try to kill her that why all his feeling come out because he understand what losing someone mean and he couldn’t lose her again if he go throw the marriage , specially that he lost his mom early age , he knows there are no guarantees in life , that I am not surprised all he can do is follow his heart see where it take him . 

 

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He has worked his entire life since his dad kicked him out to get revenge on the people responsible for his mothers death and get her company made for her. Yet by pursuing Ae Ra he's already willing to give up all that, despite knowing that her feelings may not be genuine and it was all most likely a scheme of some sort. A few episodes ago she literally tells him she's going out with Tae Oh and they come to the engagement party together but there's been no mention of that relationship by him so he must know it's not true and there's something dodge happening, but he doesn't seem to care.

 

Why take it he is giving up , he young he may start over somewhere far away from all these negative people , for me I thinks he realizes what his uncle was doing is a wrong and no revenge it worth losing someone he cares for , 100% believe he wouldn’t go after revenge form the start if wasn’t for his uncle pushing. His mom was kind and he would be like her following his heart if his uncle didn’t mess up his head . 

 

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Throwing it away without the affirmation that it's real and he's not being taken for a fool is the same as effectively throwing everything he has worked for away for nothing in my opinion. We know it won't be the case in kdrama land but if he did go through with everything in terms of giving up shares etc, and then she ruins him and leaves after the fact, that's the definition of throwing it away for nothing. No revenge, no moms company and no girl.

 

 

I may be silly but I thinks poor guy got conscience that other don’t have ,  that why he giving up his shares , he didn’t give it up for love only , he knows what his father capable to do , he witness it first hand so he come out like man and take a blames to safe people that in his mind he wronged, so you may thinks he nuts but he takes his responsibility seriously,and he thinks he responsible to keep them safe even if it will ruin him. 

 

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And a bit of a tangent on the above but it's becoming clearer why Soo Hyun is so intent on the wedding happening, especially if her mum made her give up the kid and Tae Oh. I wonder if her mom came to her whilst she was pregnant saying she has to marry In Joon (do we know when they got engaged?) for the company/families sake and threatens the kid if she doesn't. So knowing what she has had to give up for this marriage with In Joon to go ahead, throwing it away now for her would be the ultimate kick in the teeth. But then I wonder if she would be less close with her mom than she seems if the mom did that.

 

But CSH doing all this for greed now and she didn’t lose her child for this marriage it’s was ten years ago , everything she got now it’s her own doing  . In my mind what she doing it’s crazy , that why I am happy IJ’s choose his happiness rather than years in unhappiness life then realize that he was wrong at end just like her . 

 

[Lmangla]

just wanting to add on to what @Ameera Ali has already posted, injoon's journey doesn't seem like he is rushing without thought at all.  @anony12345 -- can see your view on how it looks like he is impulsive. however, injoon comes across to me as someone who has thought things through and going with what he wants even though he knows the consequences may not end well. that may be foolish but in a way, it is also a kind of courage.

 

like @Ameera Ali noted, hera getting hurt was a turning point for him in many ways as he realized how much he loved her but there were also steps before that.. so he already got what he wanted -- revenge against his father by getting the shares and kicking his brother on to some other business than construction. what happened? he neither got the satisfaction or the happiness he expected. instead, he was miserable and actually voicing it at his mother's memorial confused why he isn't happy. his brother comes drunk to office and asks why he would move him after 20 years in construction and then gives the punch -- he thought that injoon was different but he is a tae, just the like the ruthless dad. and when jung ho falls drunk on the floor with all the employees looking, injoon is not smirking or gloating that his brother is down. instead, he is embarrassed deeply and you can feel his humiliation. he is also so hurt at the accusation that he is turning out to be just like his dad and even though the uncle tries to convince him otherwise, it is something that pricks at him. and he is so miserable that after getting what he wants, he does not sleep for days. it is so bad that he finally has his secretary get some sleeping pills. but he finally is able to sleep after spending time with hera and then just falling asleep on her shoulder.

 

so rather than throwing it away, it feels like injoon has already weighed that his current track is not making him happy in any way. what does he really want to do? make shoes. instead, he is sitting there constantly playing chess with his family and even selling himself into a marriage where folks are manipulating him there as well. if everyone is trying to manipulate him or push him around, why not go for a relationship that brings some happiness however temporary? injoon knows that hera might leave but he is not going to regret living for that few moments. he knows that after he falls, he will get back on his feet again as he already did that after his mom's death.

 

if injoon was going in with blinders and pretending hera loves him and clinging to her, we could see him as a fool. instead, we have someone who had read the file that his uncle gave and sits there thinks about what it means. he does not declare his love for her but instead, telling hera that he knows that her feelings may not be sincere but it does not matter to him because he likes her and she needs him. so this is not impulse running but in a way, a sort of business like approach where the pros and cons have been weighed. he is going with his heart and he is not going to regret it regardless.

 

@dramaninja ~ hope he finds out soon; have a feeling that he is not aware of "this woman" episode because he has zero reaction to hearing that hera has a sister in the hospital who is unconscious. she was sort of testing him by giving him that info but he just quietly nodded. so it will be just as nasty surprise to him. but given how he knows hera is complicated, don't expect him to hold it against her...

[0ly40]

preview jan 12

 

[Kelly Kang]

@anony12345 For IJ, HR is a fate. She is not just a woman that he knew for a few weeks. From Ep1 thru 16, we have seen what she means to him and how strong his longing for her. Everyone has different perspectives but I am sad someone treats his love as impulsive and worthless.. He is a good man. But, he had to give up his true humanity cause he wanted to take revenge for his mom. He already knew what he tried to do is wrong (marrying to SH without love and only for power). And now he can't deny his feeling for HR. He is doing the right things now. 

 

[Kelly Kang]

 

[dramaninja]

Btw why would he used his real name and his company car if he wants to be all secret about it? Its obvious he was set up by someone.

 

Also he just work up the courage to get revenge for his mother I doubt he a master plan like that in the works lol

 

The plot calls for them to get marry because  she they both need to take his family down together  from the inside she going to end up helping him.

[tas82]

8 hours ago, dramaninja said:

Well  both of them have the same passion in life it was the same  with his mother  who he really loved, so their bond became stronger much quicker.

 

Its is time they pull him out of the dark on some things though I dont like he is the only one not knowing anything.

 

 

This right here !!!

She's going on revenge now but underneath all that her passion and loyalty etc reminds him of his mum. Although he was well off they've both been in the wars. She's a good person but life has made her have to toughen up or at least front it to survive. He too had toughen with all power and money hungry snakes in his household. So in many ways they're the same but different. I hope she realises soon so they can fight together I too am not liking him be the only clueless one, so pitiful. 

[mir6]

Hi Everyone

 

I'm new to the thread, I got sucked in a few days ago and binge watched the eps till 20.

 

Can you recommend me a similar drama since it's still about a week till the next episode 

 

I also enjoyed reading all your posts and disscusion on the drama 

 

[sava2sava]

Hi @mir6  I recommend you watch money flower, There's no similarities in my opinion but overall a very good drams.. The cast in that drama exceeds they're expectations..

 

Moving on to this drama, it seems that CHS father don't know she has given birth to a daughter and her mom just what did she plan to do with ths child again.. Was she going to put her up for and adoptions or just throw her away on the streets.. 

[paeonia]

cr.ig

[Carmarie]

16 hours ago, anony12345 said:

Throwing it away without the affirmation that it's real and he's not being taken for a fool is the same as effectively throwing everything he has worked for away for nothing in my opinion. We know it won't be the case in kdrama land but if he did go through with everything in terms of giving up shares etc, and then she ruins him and leaves after the fact, that's the definition of throwing it away for nothing. No revenge, no moms company and no girl.

I understand your thoughts about getting affirmation; however, not only is In-Joon not throwing everything away he is not throwing anything away, for him this is a win-win situation.  He wants to get out of the marriage with Soo-Hyun  and also protect her father at the same time. Soo-Hyun will not take no for an answer; therefore, how can he break the engagement ... disengage himself from the company and the family fortune.  There might be some agreement, other than protect President Cha, included with the gift of stocks.  

In-Joon  knows that he can build his own company with Hae-Ra.  She has a genuine love for shoes, as his mother did and together they start a company, and with her training and talent, and I am sure others will join him, he can build a company that ravels his father.  Since his father loves winners,  when his venture becomes successful, his father might give it all to him anyway. 

 

In-Joon liked Hae-Ra from the moment she poured that bucket of ice and water on her head, and do not forget that she saved his affair at the club.  Even if she does not love him, (however, we can tell she likes him) they have a lot in common and can build upon that.  

 

@Lmangla  I agree with your assessment.  Could not have said it better myself. 

 

"hera getting hurt was a turning point for him in many ways as he realized how much he loved her but there were also steps before that.. so he already got what he wanted -- revenge against his father by getting the shares and kicking his brother on to some other business than construction. what happened? he neither got the satisfaction or the happiness he expected. instead, he was miserable and actually voicing it at his mother's memorial confused why he isn't happy. his brother comes drunk to office and asks why he would move him after 20 years in construction and then gives the punch -- he thought that injoon was different but he is a tae, just the like the ruthless dad. and when jung ho falls drunk on the floor with all the employees looking, injoon is not smirking or gloating that his brother is down. instead, he is embarrassed deeply and you can feel his humiliation. he is also so hurt at the accusation that he is turning out to be just like his dad and even though the uncle tries to convince him otherwise, it is something that pricks at him. and he is so miserable that after getting what he wants, he does not sleep for days. it is so bad that he finally has his secretary get some sleeping pills. but he finally is able to sleep after spending time with hera and then just falling asleep on her shoulder.

 

so rather than throwing it away, it feels like injoon has already weighed that his current track is not making him happy in any way. what does he really want to do? make shoes. instead, he is sitting there constantly playing chess with his family and even selling himself into a marriage where folks are manipulating him there as well. "

 

Nicely said.

 

I hope episodes 19 and 20 are subed today.  I love this drama and I know others that are watching it also.  This is a good drama and I hope it gets the attention it deserves.  Sometimes, it take a while for dramas to caught on with the international audience; however, I think that it will eventually become a much watched drama.

 

[anony12345]

Seems like everyone is on the similar thinking compared to me - I just struggle to see it like that based on what we've seen. The argument you guys are making makes sense but I just don't buy he actually got revenge to realise he wasn't feeling it/bringing him happiness. Admittedly I'm struggling to remember why he couldn't sleep (the one airing a week and missed weeks catching up to me), but his revenge lasted 2/3 30 minute episodes if that? I just don't buy that being his revenge and causing him to have an epiphany when he barely got started before he got kicked to the curb again figuratively 

 

I'm struggling to see his perspective when he knows what he does - a girl currently lying about having a boyfriend who also happened to be the one to screwing you over by not picking your shoes for their store. He should also realise this same guy was the one that pushed him towards Ae Ra's designs which caused him to hire her in the first place. Before all this I can sort of buy that he meets her first whilst she's with that Italian guy translating and at that point (when she fights back against him, pours water over herself etc) he probably got some feels but since then he has found out quite a lot but seems happy to ignore it.

 

We can talk fate in kdrama land but as a guy I see him as extremely naive/clueless when it comes to her at this moment in time, especially as someone that's been playing the "game" with his family for so long. Lee Min Jung would seduce me in a heartbeat but this guy knows how people at that level play and his lack of care surrounding it doesn't work for me at this moment in time based on what we know about him.

 

Not even trying to figure out why she's acting like she is when she claims to have a boyfriend who you know, and have been told there's something dodge going on doesn't make sense for me no matter how people wrap it up at this moment in time

 

Edit: Wrote this before seeing the above post but I think our main difference in thinking is that his revenge has already come and gone and he realised it's not worth it. 

 

Watching his scene in front of his moms memorial again and he's saying "I will find all those people who made you suffer and take revenge, I lived with only that thought in my mind since I was 12, I can do everything now..", then later on in the scene says "I don't feel good, I feel sorry towards you" - and I don't know what to make of the last sentence. Sorry because she wasn't here to see it?

 

I don't want to read too much into it but I just don't think we've seen enough of the revenge and him being upset by it/realising it's not worth it to all of a sudden give everything up for Ae Ra, especially under the circumstances

[Carmarie]

Perhaps In-Joon is growing up.  Revenge is never sweet and the pursuit will ultimately destroy you, because once achieved one is never happy.  Let's say he marry Soo-Hyun, whom we know he does not have feelings for, just to get revenge, will he be happy with her, will she be happy with just his name and fortune?  He now knows that Soo-Hyun will hang on to him forever, and he will never be happy.  In-Joon likes Hae-Ra, she makes him smile, he can talk to her, she understands his passion for shoes. In-Joon liked Hae-Ra before Tae-Oh approached her to take him away from Soo-Hyun. I believe Hae-Ra was attracted to him also.  They connected at the function/party and the helicopter ride. As he said he has liked her from the moment he saw her.  Once she said, "don't get married", then possibility of them being together could become a potential reality.  As it was said earlier, once Hae-Ra was hurt and as he told her, the threat was real, he decided that he did not want to lose Hae-Ra.  We all know that this marriage will not be good for him or Soo-Hyun.  Before Hae-Ra entered the picture, he did not have anyone he liked, most of the women wanted him for his money; therefore, marrying Soo-Hyun was a great business deal.  Let us not forget why he suddenly proposed to Soo-Hyun, because he felt betrayed by Hae-Ra.  Remember it was after

that announcement that Tae-Oh came up with the idea of them being a couple. 

I think In-Joon is moving in the right direction even if it does not work out with Hae-Ra.  There is more than one way to get revenge.  In-Joon should start his own company, amass he own fortune, selling  shoes designed by his mother and Hae Ra.  Now that is a form of revenge that allows you to sleep at night and put a smile on your face.  Once Hae-Ra finds out that it the brother tried to murder her sister, the fact that In-Joon walked away from the family business will endear him more to her.  I think In-Joon might find some allies that he did not count on i.e. his sister-in-law.  

Sometimes, we all have to rethink that path that we are taking, is it the right way to achieve our goals.  I think that is what In-Joon did.  Part of his decision is for the love of a woman; however, a large part of his decision allows him the freedom to do things his way.  

 

It is my hope that somehow Soo-Hyun and Tae Oh gets back together because I sense that they really loved one another at one time.  It would be nice if she walked away from her mother's manipulation and found real happiness and help raise her daughter.

@anony12345   Sometimes it is nice to disagree, it opens the door to other possibilities and points of view.  You've made some great points

[Kelly Kang]

Hi @Carmarie

Thanks for your analysis about InJoon. I am totally with you. Later, he may feel devastated by all the truth that he is not aware of now. But, I believe he and Hae Ra is a real fate. And eventually they will get thru it together. 

[Ameera Ali]

I am not gonna add more about what  @Lmangla & @Carmarie  

 

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We can talk fate in kdrama land but as a guy I see him as extremely naive/clueless when it comes to her at this moment in time, especially as someone that's been playing the "game" with his family for so long. Lee Min Jung would seduce me in a heartbeat but this guy knows how people at that level play and his lack of care surrounding it doesn't work for me at this moment in time based on what we know about him.

 

What about , if he is seemingly fine with detaching from his feeling and just brushing it off as if it’s nothing happened, would that make him manly enough. 

 

For me personally for man or woman there comes a time when a person can not justify his choices and behavior but given what the character knows so far I admire what he choose -it isn’t naive or clueless if he wants to try relationship with her and start with a clean slate. Who didn’t got a past and starting from him . 

 

I see that you disappointed , he allowed woman play him that didn’t got a true feeling for him but IS IT BETTER TO LOVE OR BE LOVED?  That what I keep thinking recently

 

[anony12345]

He has no idea if it's a clean slate though - he's not questioning anything when it comes to her which is my issue with the way his character is behaving at the moment. She played him at the start but now that he knows he most likely got played he's still not questioning anything

 

If there was no her being Tae Oh's boyfriend, or the pics and whatnot than fair - she got in his sights and he fell for her as she planned but that's not how the story has gone

 

I guess I'm just waiting for the conversation where he goes "so about that boyfriend you have which is odd enough with what we're doing but also the guy who screwed me out of a massive deal conveniently around the time you popped up" that he has now known about for a while. It just feel like a classic kdrama trope where you delay/ignore the obvious question to increase angst in future episodes, but it's just too obvious a question for me not to be baffled at his character.

[Ameera Ali]

1 hour ago, anony12345 said:

He has no idea if it's a clean slate though - he's not questioning anything when it comes to her which is my issue with the way his character is behaving at the moment. She played him at the start but now that he knows he most likely got played he's still not questioning anything

 

 In this day and age  , he didn’t got the right to question her about her past with other men or anything else . If the roles were switched would she question him  

 

he want a clean slate with her but if she willing to do the same that what we will know in the future  

[Lmangla]

9 hours ago, anony12345 said:

Seems like everyone is on the similar thinking compared to me - I just struggle to see it like that based on what we've seen.

no worries! @anony12345 ~ the questions you ask are definitely logical. hope you don't feel too lonely as most of us are seeing it another way. the drama is interesting because normally, don't feel so much for the male lead but there's something about his loneliness and isolation that really tugs. with hera, we hear her talking to her friend, tae oh, loan shark, sister and so we can her thought process. we know a little of her struggles and where she is at. with injoon, he has no one to confide in and so our view is based so much on his body language, expressions and what he does not say as well as what he does say and do. if you feel his character, then you can see his decision to be with hera as actually logical and a win -win situation in many ways. but if you are watching it a bit detached (which has happened to me in many dramas), then these questions are natural to ask because we don't hear him processing his thoughts.

 

6 hours ago, Carmarie said:

I think In-Joon is moving in the right direction even if it does not work out with Hae-Ra.  There is more than one way to get revenge.  In-Joon should start his own company, amass he own fortune, selling  shoes designed by his mother and Hae Ra.  Now that is a form of revenge that allows you to sleep at night and put a smile on your face.  Once Hae-Ra finds out that it the brother tried to murder her sister, the fact that In-Joon walked away from the family business will endear him more to her.  I think In-Joon might find some allies that he did not count on i.e. his sister-in-law.  

Sometimes, we all have to rethink that path that we are taking, is it the right way to achieve our goals.  I think that is what In-Joon did.  Part of his decision is for the love of a woman; however, a large part of his decision allows him the freedom to do things his way.

yea, definitely a win-win situation for him in many ways. the dad is a real tyrant and so him refusing to marry cha soo hyun is already a slap on the old man's face. the dad will come up with some way to punish him and so it will be interesting to see how injoon reacts. like you said, the freedom to do things his way would really be the ultimate revenge.