[Drama 2018] The Third Charm, 제3의 매력

[Guest]

11 hours ago, tali58 said:

11 hours ago, tali58 said:

Actually,  in reality, couples do break up after a death of a child, and it's not only in rare cases.  It does not always bring the couple closer at all. Many marriages have broken when either one or both of the parents couldn't deal with the loss and grief of losing their child. It's not even close to being a joke. This is one thing the writers got right. 

 

This is so true.  Most marriages survive when the couples are in love or friends first and understand each other and both willingly want to save their marriage.  Losing a child is a horrendous thing that any one can face and it is not something that even counselors can prevent divorces.  That is why some courts suggest separation during such periods to give it another shot instead of divorce.  But looks like divorce in Korea is pretty easy and can be done in 30 days (knowledge only from k-dramas) or so.  So, it feels that it is the easy way out.  This is definitely not a joke as you say and the guilt associated with it is enormous that one or both feel it and have to get out of a suffocating marriage.  You can see that YJ just wants to loaf about and she does not even have any interest in working - a complete opposite to when her brother suffered injuries and her goal was to be the best hairdresser.  She had some goal in mind vs. just loafing about.  Life feels meaningless and just empty with the loss of a loved one and it is quadrupled with that of a child.  

 

I think the last part of episode 14 fit perfectly with JY personality.  He still cares about YJ and cannot handle anything happening to her.  He still hasn't gotten over her and the minute he senses she is in trouble, he cannot help himself offer her a branch to hold on to, to guide her to safety.  

My sincerest apologies @angelwingssf . I have accidentally merged your post above with @tali58 and can't seem to undo it. I will usually merge consecutive posts within an hour. So I am very sorry to you both for this error.

 

For all concern try not to post consecutively within an hour . Edit to add. I know it's hard to quote another person when you are editing your previous post as this is a limitation within our system. What we suggest you do is that you copy and paste the person's quote ( and tag them ) in your previous post if you find yourself commenting consecutively.

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@bedifferent Sorry for the late reply. I am back logged on this drama due to RL and  trying to play catch up. I have enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts. Will catch up soon 

 

 

 

 

[angelwingssf]

2 minutes ago, triplem said:

My sincerest apologies @angelwingssf . I have accidentally merged your post above with @tali58 and can't seem to undo it. I will usually merge consecutive posts within an hour. So I am very sorry to you both for this error.

 

 

Sorry about posting consecutively.  I try not to do it.  But it happened and thought of editing it, but forgot since it was late for me.  Will try to keep it within soompi guidelines.  Thanks for doing everything that you guys do.  

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, angelwingssf said:

 

Sorry about posting consecutively.  I try not to do it.  But it happened and thought of editing it, but forgot since it was late for me.  Will try to keep it within soompi guidelines.  Thanks for doing everything that you guys do.  

No problem. Thanks for your understanding on this matter. Appreciate it

[KSHCJW]

12 hours ago, USAFarmgirl said:

 

After reading more than one sight today I realized that so many people want someone to blame from the dramas direction to it's characters.  So many have no mercy for YJ even now and believe JY should just walk away...

 

Still rooting for YJ, the writers r pushing us into that direction also since they r starting to make her the only most unfortunate person by far, ok beside her friend now of course (YJ s drama: (1) she and her brother s misfortune (2)her inability to cope with the sincere love from JY, ending up losing it and regretting it as we all see her suffered in silence after the second break up although she initiated it we saw her running after his car and crying in the toilet when she remembered how JY cooked her her favorite dish for her Bday;(3)losing her child adding her guilty feelings and losing her purpose in life;(4)having to face JY again while he clearly moved on and apparently happy while she is in misery. I believe she commented before (in ep 12?) she would be very jealous seeing other people happy atm. So that feeling would only be magnified if it is her lost love and still she faces him with a smile. And then having to say goodbye again, since they know they have to stick to the decisions they made. She choose to leave him before and she has to respect his engagement now. JY sticking to his engagement to SE. Both knowing that out of consideration of SE, they won't be able to even stay friends as they both concluded ep 13 would be the last time they see each other). And now the writer is trying to push her over the edge by adding another lost in her life, her only friend ever...Writer just wants us to cheer her on ' hang in there YJ, stay strong'  'Of course she deserves to find happiness again', it would be inhumane of us if we didn't think so? Ofcourse she will be alright again, only question is with or without JY. The writer is trying hard. 

And if JY really just walked away from her situation, is that the kind of JY we want to see? Surpressing his passionate side and engage himself into a marriage because everyone expects him to and out of thankfulness towards SE for waiting for him for so long. Yes this might be the situation when happening irl, but we are watching Kdrama for some emotions. He would not be the hero main lead if he does so. 

Since the writer is starting to make SE into a 'real' human (in stead of a saint/innocent puppy) by showing us another side of hers, I think the writer is preparing us for a break up. And to be honest, what would she loose if JY broke off their engagement? Yes her heart broken, but I believe every character in this drama has their heart broken before and often out of consideration for the other party. So what makes hers special? Besides that, she still has a loving family and a career, she is still young and pretty and will get new pursuers (maybe her colleaege). She just needs to face herself, would her love be enough for the both of them? Does she really want to own him in a way that even if he has to wear a mask all the time she is alright with that as long as he is by her side? Will she in fact be choosing her happiness above his? Since she is so alike the old JY, it would grace her if she comes to reality (she clearly felt as a third wheel when she walked in JY and YJ the first time in Small Table) and let him go to be happy with YJ. Like JY did, in the end he respected YJ s decision and wished her all the best.

It is now up to the writer to show us how JY turns out to be. The timid JY as in his 20s doing all the things he was expected to and living according to regulations by always doing the 'right' thing or the more emotional JY in his 27s acting more according his feelings and showing us his passionate side. Yes he certainly deserves to be the one receiving love this time, but why couldn't it be from YJ after all her struggles being able to show love towards JY after her growth (since she was able to towards SoRi and I tend to think also towards HC in their marriage before SoRi died). That YJ now finally learns to open up more and how to love someone again and not making the same mistake of always cropping up her inner thoughts.

The possibility of them becoming friends while each with another partner would not make sense to me. They were never friends to begin with. All the actions of JY towards YJ was always out of love and care and in the end wishing her all the best. They never intended to keep in touch out of friendship, so that seems to be out of the question too now. Should they end up not being together, they won't be in friendly contact with each other either. Then this whole drama would definately be a big waste of my time (and theirs for that matter lol)... 

Still in doubt whether to watch ep 14 now or to wait till next week and see how it ends first 

 

[bedifferent]

13 hours ago, USAFarmgirl said:

I think the writer took us on a couples life and journey a real look into the struggles, breaking up more than once and finding their way back only to let go again.  It allowed us to see and feel their doubts, fears, regrets and so much more.  What started out light hearted in the beginning and this sense of watching them grow up before our very eyes.  Learning, growing, and hurting one another isn't so unreal in fact it's honest.  Every relationship doesn't have a happy ending.  And often good loving people get left behind. 

Even ones like the Doctor who always loved YJ more...

 

Me too, we are on the same page.  PD Pyo has said this drama is both comical and melodramatic at the same time.  And in between it's humanistic as well.  I don't think he ever said romcom.  Both YJ and JY deserve happiness, whether with each other is what the whole drama is about for me.  We are supposed to conclude at the end if she deserves and meant to be in his life.  And why?  I think there is a reason why both movies Benjamin Button and Forest Gump were mentioned.  The male lead for both movies separated from his true love for many reasons at length.  Yet, they all continue on with their lives, living and embracing, growing and appreciating, all the joy and challenges that they must deal as individuals before crossing path with their love again.   Their unions were often brief,  the break ups were tied to seasons of their lives.  All meaningful, all temporary in hindsight.  Yet, they kept their connection to each other even merely via a small thread while growing and changing as individuals.  

 

I really love the last meeting between Soo Jae and Joon Young where SJ poetically waxed philosophies about relationships to Joon Young.  The miniscule chance of two souls meeting one another (and creating a relationship) is too precious to discard. The chance of the wheat grain falling onto the head of the needle defies all probabilities yet it happened.  Such human relationship (the kind between Joon Young and Young Jae) is wondrous on its own. Treasure and care each relationship for the miracle that it helped to bring two people together.  Joon Young understood Young Jae's place in his memories even as he decides to move forward with his own life without her.  

 

9 hours ago, sheza said:

With only two episodes left, based on the pace of the show, I don't think this drama will have a happily after ending like other kdramas.  It will probably be left quite open ... just like how life is supposed to be ... 

This show is absorbing though.  I simply love how it is thought provoking and it makes us think about deep issues.  I don't like pain but this drama hurts so good.  

YJ has been very cryptic in her words but yet I think the little she has spoken gave us a hint of what she may be feeling.  I can't make out a full picture yet because YJ is very mysterious but please indulge in trying to put some of my thoughts here:

She said JY makes her feel special.  Some of us think that YJ is depressed due to the death of her little girl.  I am inclined to think she has been depressed for longer than that.  Her tough exterior, cool image and reluctance to confront emotional issues are masking all that sad feelings that has been a well deep inside her.  From young since the death of her parents, she is unable to express her true emotions.   When JY comes along, she felt special.  She felt significant.  She felt alive.  YJ told HC that she was swayed but NOT by him.  What is she swayed by?  Her ambition?  Her desire to make her mark of significance out there in the world of hairdressing?  So I too wonder why she married HC.  And she had a child with him.  The child must have brought her a sense of significance and purpose.  Every child would mean a world to the parent and every parent to the child.  But when the child died that was the straw that broke the camel's back.  I think her world came crashing.  Now, she is so lost, she is at the point of suicide.  JY comes along once again and help her pick up the pieces.  He is giving her strength to carry on.  The whole scene from teaching her how to cook to her actually cooking illustrates this.  From eating instant noodles, she now bothers to cook for herself.  It is like giving her a fresh start.  A reason to live again.  

I believe that JY has no ulterior motive or intention of getting back together with YJ.  He just wanted to help her with no strings attached.  Just like the time he was angry with her but he helped her recover her lost file.  That's true selfless love, caring for someone and not expecting anything else in return.  When YJ agreed to date the cop at SE's request, she was doing it for JY.  She's doing her bit to allay the SE's fear for JY's benefit.  This is the only way I can see it because it is not in YJ's personality to comply to such things.  This shows maturity on her part compared to her 20 something year old self.  

That call at the end is a desperate S.0.S call from YJ at the lowest point of her life.  She has lost everything and JY seems to be the only lifeline she is holding onto.  She didn't mean to insert herself in the middle of JY relationship with SE.  She was just desperate.  I am sure JY will go running to her rescue.  I would be disappointed if he didn't.  He will run to her not because he is still in love with her (even if that is true), he will run to her because it is the right thing to do, just like he did when SJ called numerous times.  As an aside, we saw how JY bailed SJ out so many times. Even when SJ tried to repay his debt to JY,  JY always ended up paying for him.  I think the siblings will never be able to repay the debt they owe JY.   Also, SJ unlike SE's brothers likes JY for who he is and not what he can do for his sister. 

I feel sorry for HC and SE because in a sense, JY and YJ 's heart is together even when they are not together that it is very difficult for HC or SE to insert themselves in between.  After two charms, by now the third charm, even if YJ and JY don't end up together, you know and you know that they love each other deeply at the expense of themselves.  So if I am HC or SE, I don't think I'd even want to try.  

 

So to answer that question: what did YJ lose and she found again?  A big piece of herself.  JY has always found a big piece of herself and JY is a also another big piece of herself.  

Sorry just to add: (this is my habit - editing after publishing to waffle on more!)
Compared to the 1st charm, this time when YJ's world comes crashing on her, she didn't push JY away with brusque comments and carry the burden by herself.  This time in the third charm she is finally showing her vulnerability to JY.  How could JY not run to her?  Go JY go!  
 

 

I typed my comments before reading your post.  I can't believe we see things in this drama the same way.  Love what you said.

 

Young Jae and Joon Young have come full circle in reversing their role in the relationship.  He is now the pillar of strength where once Young Jae was.  Joon Young is always the giver in his relationship with YJ.  It is only after growing into his thirties does he learn to express it in a different way that  positively showcases his heart and intention.  Young Jae has trouble receiving this love when she was young (just like Soo Jae and his continuing debt toward JY HAHA).  I would say it is more correct to say she cannot perceive this love because her sense of self-worth was still under construction.  Whether it is because she needs to establish her identity first or the need to experience life first hand, Young Jae was in no place to accept his love when they were 27.  The burden that she felt in her twenties has now been replaced by the appreciation for his love.  Among all these new revelations is the realization of his character.  I too believe she truly respects his happiness and was willing to do anything for it including going through the blind date to keep Se-Eun's mind at ease.  When she mentioned marriage changed people, I surmised that she also talks about herself understanding both Ho-Chul and Joon Young's love. 

 

Soo Jae, being the writer that he is, remained cryptic and hilariously self absorbed whenever he is with Joon Young.  Like Young Jae, he can't verbalize his needs or reveal his vulnerability.  It's the common quality seen between the siblings to self-preserve after their parents' deaths.  Calling Joon Young to drink in pretense and couldn't open up to discuss his own problems, Soo Jae is also a man not living in reality.  He once remarked that pain is necessary for good writing.  I think he has been using his disability as an excuse to avoid human relationships for too long.  He's tenfold less courageous than Joo-Ran and not deserving of her devotion.  Hiding behind the words to avoid human contacts for fear of heartaches is cowardly.  Joo-Ran at least lived her life fearlessly, not afraid of missteps and mistakes, pursuing what she wants.  I'm sure he loves his sister and wants to respect her by not disclosing her story to Joon Young.  However, not responding to her depression, avoiding reality, is not what Young Jae needs at the moment.  I wish he confronts and suffocates her with open brotherly love once in a while.

 

[kdramasage]

Love reading all your thoughts. But for now, I'm pulling myself out of my slight depression by rewatching the earlier episodes.  

Just want to add that it's possible to love someone (as YJ did/does JY) but yet be "swayed" or attracted to another man such as Ho Chul. Ho Chul's confidence, maturity and success (not to mention good looks) make him one hell of an attractive man. And because life works in mysterious ways, it's also humanly possible to get married, have a kid, be happy and yet still love JY somewhere in her (YJ) heart of hearts. 

 

p.s. I wish we had another 6 episodes, and are not heading into the final two next week. There is sooooooo much more story left untold. And however the ending is, i feel it is too rushed. Or maybe I am simply not ready to bid JY, YJ and the lot farewell. I have loved, cried, and laughed with the characters for the past couple of months. And honest to goodness, although it cannot be so in real life, I just want a happily ever after ending for all. 

[122am]

Happy to read everyone's opinions and views on ep 13-14. It was 2 very heavy episodes. This drama was a very relatable one for me as a viewer. I'm in my 30s and have had a long and messy relationship before, similar to these 2 main leads. On top of that, YJ's character is very similar to mine. 

 

Here are my thoughts on ep 14:

 

1. Joo Ran really loves Soo Jae. At her lowest point in the hospital, the first person she thought of was him. 

 

2. It's a double whammy for Joo Ran. Cancer means she has to remove her hair. She runs a very successful hair salon, and as the owner, her image is very important to her career. It must feel like her whole world is crumbling down on her. 

 

3. Young Jae is not at fault for calling Joon Young. She's at her lowest point and Joon Young is the one she wants to talk to. Though he is engaged, in their hearts they reach out to each other first. In her deep depression as her daughter passed away, not once did she call him. I'm sure she would have also thought of him during her darkest days too. She needs him and has the right to speak to him. 

 

4. The fiance Officer Min is insecure. She would have gotten everything, but she screwed up by trying to fix up her chances by 'tying' Young Jae away to her colleague.

 

5. Joon Young's weakness is Young Jae. He instinctively runs to her every single time. This third charm time, will be no different. Also, there needs to be interaction between the main leads... if not, it will not be named "The Third Charm" 

 

6. My last point will be about how this drama is similar to Life in general. The users of this thread are of different ages I'm sure.

 

As you're reading this, maybe you are at the first charm stage of life. Everything feels new and difficult, your world revolves around school, love is sweet, pure and sacred. 

 

Or perhaps you are at the second charm stage of life. A balancing act, managing career, trying to stabilize a relationship, putting down your roots and planning to thrive. No time to lose, you have 10 years to make your life work. 

 

If you, like me, are going through or have passed through the third charm stage, you may find the happenings so familiar. Life doesn't always happen the way you want to, you may never end up with your 'Prince Charming'. And, the reason why you broke up may be super stupid. Then, he may end up marrying someone sweet and kind, just the opposite of you. 

 

At the same time, you're struggling alone, eating instant noodles, battling your life, crying alone watching "The Third Charm", can't cry too loud because you don't want your family members to hear. Sometimes at the sweetest or most painful scene, you can't help but have some flashbacks about The One that was meant to be, but Got Away. 

 

The drama reflects real life very thoroughly and has many different challenges depicted. I enjoyed it a lot, just like how I enjoyed fluffy, unrealistic fantasies like Strong Woman Do Bong Soon. I need both drama types to balance my life. 

 

I sincerely hope that JY and YJ will have meaningful interactions with each other in ep 15 - 16. I'm not hoping for romance, since it's such a realistic drama right now, but I hope the writers can tie up everything satisfactorily. Because I enjoyed every scene with YJ and JY from ep 1 till now. 

[kdramasage]

@122am love your post. And hear hear indeed. Life will always throw us curve balls and at the third charm phase, it is indeed very different to how one planned it in their teens / twenties. Like you, I too wish for more meaningful scenes of JY and YJ as we head into the final two episodes next week. I love these two characters to bits. As individuals but more so when together. 

[bedifferent]

@122am SUPER LOVE your post.  Thank you for sharing your personal take on this drama.  Like you, I see bits of myself in both Joon Young and Young Jae in my long distance relationship while I am pursuing my career.  My BF and I both accept the risk and rewards in the kind of relationship we have.  We both understand the need to pursue our own lives and dreams to complete us as individuals before we can come together.  Life happens so we hope and pray that we have enough of a bond that will be resilient to face what the future holds.  

 

@kdramasage  yes yes.  I too feel we need more than 2 episodes to complete these characters' stories.  Absolutely,  there's nothing wrong with leaving a corner in your heart for those you have loved.

[KSHCJW]

6 hours ago, kdramasage said:

Love reading all your thoughts. But for now, I'm pulling myself out of my slight depression by rewatching the earlier episodes.  
 

 

Think I m gonna join ya  Really miss the goofy and innocent JY and his interaction with YJ

[KSHCJW]

On 10 november 2018 at 8:49 PM, chickfactor said:

 

SE and JY sitting in traffic, in the car together. SE says female officer enjoyed the meal a lot.

 

JY: Why did you set up a blind date for Young-Jae? Just what are you thinking? (angry)

SE: What about you, Oppa? Why didn't you tell me that you dated Young-Jae? Do you know that this is the first time in 4 years that you got mad at me? And the reason is because of Young-Jae?

JY: I'm sorry that I made you concerned. It won't happen again. I will get off here. Traffic looks bad, you should turn around and go another way, drive safely. (gets out of car)

 

 

 

Wait a minute, dear writer, is this your hint for us JY is eventually going to get off...Like getting off and out of his engagement??? Suddenly I'm seeing symbolism in his last lines of their conversation :

JY: I'm sorry that I made you concerned. It won't happen again.= Let's break up and lets not bother each other again; 

JY: I will get off here. = I m getting out of this engagement/relationship rn;

JY: Traffic looks bad, you should turn around and go another way, drive safely. = Our situation has changed for the worse, you should turn around and go another way. Our paths separate here, be well on your way.

JY gets out of car = literally leaving her...

 

Just saying....

[ktcjdrama]

11 minutes ago, KSHCJW said:

Wait a minute, dear writer, is this your hint for us JY is eventually going to get off...Like getting off and out of his engagement??? Suddenly I'm seeing symbolism in his last lines of their conversation :

JY: I'm sorry that I made you concerned. It won't happen again.= Let's break up and lets not bother each other again; 

JY: I will get off here. = I m getting out of this engagement/relationship rn;

JY: Traffic looks bad, you should turn around and go another way, drive safely. = Our situation has changed for the worse, you should turn around and go another way. Our paths separate here, be well on your way.

JY gets out of car = literally leaving her...

 

Just saying....

This above is an example of reading between the lines....

 

Thank you all for writing down and sharing your wonderful insights to this drama. I read all of them. I haven't watched this since many episodes ago, but been faithfully following this thread and recaps. I want to especially thank @mywebfoot for reminding us about the misplaced expectation of the drama. I admit that I went into this drama thinking that it is a rom-com, really... What you wrote helped me to change my approach to this drama and I feel that I'm ready to pick up where I left off, except that I need to find the right time to do so (hopefully soon) since this isn't a light drama after all. It's not heavy-dark, but it is a drama that requires heart and mind to appreciate the beauty of it, probably with lots of tissues and ample time to recover from swollen eyes. In fact, I really won't mind a non-HEA for the OTP if that is really what it takes to get the message of the drama across. Anyhow, since we're at the finale week, I'm going to stay away from the thread when ep.15/16 aired so I can enjoy the surprise of how the writer is wrapping up the love story.

[vladlola06]

4 hours ago, KSHCJW said:

 

Wait a minute, dear writer, is this your hint for us JY is eventually going to get off...Like getting off and out of his engagement??? Suddenly I'm seeing symbolism in his last lines of their conversation :

JY: I'm sorry that I made you concerned. It won't happen again.= Let's break up and lets not bother each other again; 

JY: I will get off here. = I m getting out of this engagement/relationship rn;

JY: Traffic looks bad, you should turn around and go another way, drive safely. = Our situation has changed for the worse, you should turn around and go another way. Our paths separate here, be well on your way.

JY gets out of car = literally leaving her...

 

Just saying....

lol! Why not ? 

When I saw this scene, I immediately reconsidered the identical scene between YJ and JY ... This time, JY flees the problem, it's not his style ...

 

I can't talk about episodes 13 and 14 ... much too heavy emotionally ... as someone explained above, when we want to talk about this drama, we don't know where to start ... I would wait for the 2 final episodes hoping to gather my thoughts ...

 

So like others here I review the first 10 episodes. 

Looking at them again (with sub in my language this time) JY's exaggerated reactions to YJ, (his excessive jealousy, his blocking that prevents him from answering the phone or seeing her) appear to me more and more heavy.

YJ tries several times to understand him, to unblock the situation and to even talk with him! 

And even if JY himself realizes the absurdity of the situation and his behavior, he can't get over his sickly jealousy ...

This is a situation that happens very often in real life when we are still not sure of ourselves in our relationships ...

We fall in love with someone, another person courts our partner (the latter doesn' want to be with this other person) but in the end, because of our jealousy and the approaches we take to our partner unfairly, we end up returning the situation and give our partner of interest for this person ... (it's a little what happened between JY / YJ and HC)

At the end, even if we resign ourselves, we are unhappy ...
And I think that's why YJ broke up with JY ...
As she tells JY, he doesn't trust her!

Because YJ is very clear at first in his interactions with HC (even if it doesn't happen in front of JY)

But little by little JY's insecurities and lack of confidence push YJ to see and talk more and more with HC ...

All of this could have been avoided in the end ....
it's sad...

Now, I don't have words for episodes 13 and 14 ... They are just too difficult to manage for me ...

 

For the time being.

 

Edit : Should I add that I am not surprised by the behavior of the policewoman? She loves selfishly but she has the luck (or bad luck) to have a partner like JY who strives despite the situation.
(Unimaginable thing in my country, where she would have been kindly thanked in less time than it takes to say) ...

[tianaa]

well my thought are  joon young and Se Eun are gonna breakup, this is really breaking my heart , either SE is gonna know that JY is still in love with YJ and let him go or JY is gonna feel bad for SE for still having feeling for YJ and leave her.SLS

[bella1025]

Whatever insecurity SE might feel,  over Joon not telling her about YJ (which shouldnt she have known? wasnt she aware that Joon had a gf and YJ even had that mag spread. If i had liked a guy who is/was in a relationship, Id have probably looked up his gf to scope out the competition ..lol so i dont find her believable here ).. she really overstepped her bounds with YJ. Bet if she finds out later on that her daughter died.. she'd feel more like a prickk over her stunt.

She shouldve just confronted Joon about YJ to clarify her suspicions and clear her insecurity instead of making sure that YJ be unavailable to Joon.

 

Yj has her faults but SE clearly isnt the right girl for Joon to marry. I just noticed that I always wind up disliking all the characters that the SE actress plays. lol ive seen her in heartstrings, fbnd and now here.. and she just rubs me the wrong way, even if she plays noce characters.. then she turns up being pretentious. lol

[sheza]

10 hours ago, KSHCJW said:

 

Wait a minute, dear writer, is this your hint for us JY is eventually going to get off...Like getting off and out of his engagement??? Suddenly I'm seeing symbolism in his last lines of their conversation :

JY: I'm sorry that I made you concerned. It won't happen again.= Let's break up and lets not bother each other again; 

JY: I will get off here. = I m getting out of this engagement/relationship rn;

JY: Traffic looks bad, you should turn around and go another way, drive safely. = Our situation has changed for the worse, you should turn around and go another way. Our paths separate here, be well on your way.

JY gets out of car = literally leaving her...

 

Just saying....

 

This scene also mirrors the one when YJ got out of the car when she was having a fight with JY.  So I guess perhaps JY will start understanding why YJ got off and perhaps even felt the same feelings she was feeling then?  

[KSHCJW]

7 hours ago, sheza said:

 

This scene also mirrors the one when YJ got out of the car when she was having a fight with JY.  So I guess perhaps JY will start understanding why YJ got off and perhaps even felt the same feelings she was feeling then?  

 

Yes yes, I remembered that scene too. This indeed shows how JY is in the same stage now as where YJ was 5 yrs ago. Hopefully he himself also realizes this in ep 15 and put 1 and 1 together and comes to understand YJ more. Though apparently now YJ finally tries to open up in her despair, she is being cut off by JY

 

To think about the JY up till ep 13 (still putting ep14 off) I really resent the restrained JY with SE and prefer the more lively and emotional JY with YJ...JY, its time to wake up, stop putting your head in the sand! He has shown us so much growth from the jealous and almost childlike (in love) JY to the present more stable and confident JY. Why not take the last step, be honest with yourself and fight for what you really desire? He too deserves real happiness.

[tali58]

So, watching ep. 13 carefully, several things were very clear to me. YJ was definitely happy with HC. This was no marriage of convenience in any way. Sori's conception was no accident, as someone suggested in a couple of posts:

 

When we first see YJ in her memories and dreams, she is blowing soap bubbles and smiling happily in the sunlight on a beautiful day. She's looking up, happy and laughing, at someone taller than her. That can only be HC, and it's before they had Sori. She was clearly happy with him before the death of their daughter. That also explains why she still has the framed pictures of the two of them with Sori - a picture of the happy family they once were.

They both look happy and in love when Sori is born, and HC was very obviously a loving father. So much so that he can't bear to tear himself away from Sori to go to work. Even though YJ mildly scolds him that he has to leave for work, her tone is mild, soft, and peaceful, not impatient or cold. When YJ and Sori are by the pool at home, waiting for Daddy to come home, again, they are clearly a happy family and loving parents. Here again we can see just how much HC adored his daughter. We also see the beautiful life they have together. Their phone conversation about Sori's birthday is the easy, happy conversation of a happily married couple and doting parents.

When the accident happens, it happens on YJ's watch, so to speak. So in addition to the grief, she is clearly feeling guilty that she didn't notice that Sori wandered off after the cat, as children often do. At the funeral, they're both so grief-stricken, it's incredibly difficult to watch. She's broken, and he is so deep in his grief that it seems that he's frozen so tightly because otherwise he'd shatter. (Their acting here is excellent. In his real life, Min Woo Hyuk absolutely adores his son, who is just a little older than Sori is in the drama, and his son, who is the cutest 5-years-old MWH "mini-me", idolizes his daddy and follows him everywhere.-- They were on House Husband for some episodes -- So how Min Woo Hyuk managed to film that scene at the grave side of his child is beyond me!! It's absolutely every loving parent's nightmare.)

Afterwards, it's clear that each is so deeply buried in sorrow, that they cannot grieve together. He can't relieve her guilt, and it's possible, because it's realistic, that maybe he even felt that it was in some way her negligence that cost Sori's life. However, he never says it or shows it, and maybe he didn't even think it, but YJ would blame herself for sure. Earlier memories we saw in ep. 12 did show that he was trying to hold her and get her to stop drinking to drown her sorrow, and that he asks her a number of times if she'll be alright while he is gone, possibly to work. But now we know that her grief is also mixed with feelings of guilt. That explain her heavy drinking.  Despite his pain, he was still trying to help her and care for her, since we heard him begging her to stop, saying "Please, YJ, no more!" and his voice is broken.

 

A number of people commented wondering on why would YJ still keep a picture of her ex-husband and daughter, a happy family portrait, and even holds it when she's crying, even though they're now divorced. To me, it seems very clear. I don't know why it's hard for people to believe that she loved HC, and was happy with him. In her memories of her life with HC and Sori, we don't see her pining for JY while she was happy in her marriage. It's clear to see that she did love her husband, she obviously adored her daughter, and they were once a happy family. As much as some people want to think otherwise, that she was secretly still pining for JY, everything in ep 13 points to her marriage to HC not being just a marriage of convenience at all, and that she was happy with him.

She keeps looking at the family portrait, and holding it to herself when she's lying down because she lost it all, and she probably believes it was all her fault. So considering YJ's personality it makes total sense that she would divorce HC because she feels that she caused his loss and his deep sorrow.  So in her mind,  the way she thinks, the least she can do is to give him the freedom to find happiness. It also explains better his words to her at the restaurant, that he's tried so hard but in vain. To me, it sounds like he still loves her and possibly didn't want the divorce, especially since we did see that he tried to get her to share the grief together, but she refused. It totally fits her personality to do what she thinks is better for the man she loves, *even if he doesn't think so and doesn't want what she thinks he should have.* That's been her pattern twice with JY, too. Both times when she broke up with JY was because she thought it was better for him. But the fact that YJ still holds on to the picture of her with HC, both smiling and happy together and with their daughter, and also the fact that her dreams and her memories are also all about him and his love for her and their daughter, all show that she is grieving the entire loss of the happy family she had and her happy life with HC, as well as her guilt for the loss of Sori.

I believe her when she tells JY that she's happy for him having a fiancé and that he's getting married. She doesn't begrudge him that at all. She's been happy, and she says he deserves to be happy. He's the one who first starts worrying about her and her deep sadness. Since he doesn't know the cause of it, it's an honest mistake for him to assume it's because of a failed marriage.

Him thinking that she wasn't happy in her marriage, it would be easy for him to think "what if", and to wonder. So far, it seems that YJ looks to him as a source of comfort, yet she hasn't told him about her loss, so he's responding just to her loneliness and broken spirit, but it's unclear what she wants from him at this point.

 

What really confuses me is that YJ's brother never mentions her, and never makes any reference to the death of his only niece. It's also like he doesn't even know YJ is back in Korea, or that she lost her daughter. That's just bizarre and more than likely just really bad writing!!

 

It's clear that her friend, JooRan knows, since she is trying to help, offering pomegranate juice instead of alcohol, and trying to distract YJ with work.

 

Finally, Joo Ran's cancer. My stomach literally sank for her. She seems to have no family, her best friend is dealing with her own grief, and DJ is so self-involved and has taken her for granted for so long, that he's totally oblivious to her distress, and doesn't even give her a chance to tell him what she's going through. Ironically, YJ at some point thinks to herself that she's all alone and has to take care of herself now, even though she had a husband, an ex-boyfriend, and her best friend all caring about her and making sure she has a place to live, eats decent meals, and listen to her when she reaches out. But the one who is truly alone here is JR, who is facing cancer entirely alone. The people to whom she was always a good and loyal friend aren't able to even see that now she needs them. YJ is there for her for a short few hours, to cut her hair,  but then YJ totally falls apart and makes JR's cancer about herself when she calls JY and says "Everyone I love leaves me or gets sick." Joo Ran's cancer isn't about YJ. Also, neither JY nor HC left her. She's the one who forced both men to leave.

 

JY's sister is now getting on my nerves because she's now no longer amusing. She's become cold and rude to the point of being verbally and emotionally abusive, and I am irritated with SH for putting up with her attitude, forgetting how cool he was, and regaining some of that coolness and swag back. He also needs to get rid of that dad-perm and get his sexy hair back.

 

One last observation. When HC thinks of the name "Sori"

for the baby,  he says, "A man named Choi Ha Chul and a woman named So YoonJae came together to make a beautiful baby girl..." and then they both agree together on the name SoRi."  

Also, YJ doesn't seem like a woman who would have been intimate quickly or easily with one man right after another. We actually have no hint that YJ and JY had slept together.  Also HC is a doctor, so he'd know if the baby was born at full- term or "early." So I don't think SoRi was JY's.  If she was, and HC still adored her as much as he did, it would say a lot about what a great man the doctor is. 

 

On to ep 14!

[sheza]

@tali58 I was one of those people who thought it was a marriage of convenience.  Of course now as the story unfolds, I don't think so anymore.  I agree that she wanted a divorce because she feels too sorry and too responsible for the death of the daughter.  Again, this is one aspect of JY I do not like - running away when the going gets tough.  Till death do us part doesn't exist in her vocabulary.  I understand that she's in pain and in the process of self loathing at the moment but still, I hope this part of her attitude will change.

When she sees JY with SE.  She sees him smiling and thus she is happy that he is happy.  But notice that she was not happy at all otherwise.  When she was looking at JY smile, she had a pensive smile.  Almost like she is happy that he is smiling.  When she caught their eyes, she smiled at them but after that while walking towards them, her expression was sad.  The reason was not clear - whether it is one of regret or just her being in pain. 

I also find it bizarre that SJ never mention his niece.  Perhaps YJ is very much like SJ - in that household, no one mentions anything that's negative.  Avoidance of negative is actually a false positive.  Just because you don't tackle negative things doesn't make everything beneath the surface looks right.  

While I do think that YJ loved HC, I don't have this feeling that they share the same passion  as twenty something JY and YJ.  Perhaps that's the writer's intention too, to illustrate mature love versus young love.  And though there were many moments of YJ's happy life as a family with HC, somehow I think the one who sealed that relationship was their love for Sori.  It makes one question too how a child can affect the equation of marriage - whether it is the birth of a child or a death of the child.  

[chickfactor]

15 hours ago, tali58 said:

One last observation. When HC thinks of the name "Sori"

for the baby,  he says, "A man named Choi Ha Chul and a woman named So YoonJae came together to make a beautiful baby girl..." and then they both agree together on the name SoRi."  

 

Yeah, that was really sweet.

 

Choi = him

So = little

Ri = Lee (Young-Jae's last name)

 

Her name means "little girl born from Choi and Lee"

 

And this name is almost like the writers saying to the viewers - "No, this girl is not Joon-Young's daughter."

 

I think people resist believing that HC and YJ could really have been in love because:

 

1. We've been conditioned to believe in One True Pairing by K-dramas. Real life is not that clear-cut.

2. We loved YJ and JY together. HC was the interloper.

 

Even though I've worked hard to be realistic and argued that grown people ought to be free to make these choices, and fully believe that HC and YJ were and would have been blissfully happy if So-Ri hadn't died - I still feel like we do need more explanation.

 

Because the last time we saw YJ at age 27, she seemed pretty sure that she was not interested in HC romantically.

 

People can change their minds, but we do need to see how she came to cross that bridge, somehow.

 

--

 

I wanted to mention a couple of other things:

 

- I mis-translated that Joon-Young was selected to be the sous-chef at the new branch of the Portuguese restaurant. But he was actually going to be a "soo-seok" chef, which means "top" chef.

 

- I defended Ri-Won until now. That she was always honest with Sang-Hyun and neither had any delusions about the other. But I see now that her cold attitude is taking a toll on him. So something will give, eventually.

 

- I thought it was hilarious that his name is Hyun Sang-Hyun, a sort of palindrome in Korean, and that is what everyone always calls him. Then I discovered that the actor's name is Lee Sang-Yi (Yi Sang Yi) which is also a palindrome.

 

(Okay, that was pretty esoteric, but I thought it was funny.)

 

- I guess my last thought is that while Se-Eun is being compared to Joon-Young at 27 (in terms of insecurity), I think that she is more similar to Ho-Chul (in terms of her persistence and willingness to go far in order to make sure she gets the person she likes)