[Mainland Chinese Drama 2020] Royal Nirvana 鹤唳华亭

[CDVK]

Thanks @PPB! I have not done this much extra reading/research for any other drama I watched. But it was all worth it!

Between the author and @bluehibiscus, we, non-Chinese speakers, got a window into the amazing Chinese literature and the way of communicating though it. I do hope that the Chinese drama producers recognize the size of the non-Chinese speaking audience out there, and make an effort to add meaningful sub titles in other languages, especially for dramas such as this where the Chinese language use is a rich and integral part of the story telling. Perhaps they should hire @bluehibiscus, with her excellent command of both Chinese and English to add the subtitles for the DVD release-  if they do one :-)

 

 

[PPB]

Ah ah..... @CDVK My thoughts exactly! If only the subtitles were done this way  how amazing and enriching that would be! I watched the 60 eps of RN on Prime, and my goodness ... I had to rewind time and again to understand this complex and beautiful story, and still, the subtitles were really poor, I was very unimpressed. 

 

Like you, I have not spent so much time on any other drama, this is pretty special. On  some other dramas though, they do sometimes tell you a little more. In Serenade of peaceful joy they tell you which poem a line is from, the time the poet was alive, the meaning of it if it's not clear, really lovely and informative. Though I think that's because the drama is supposed to be historically accurate, and characters are based on real poets or ministers that actually lived in that era, it was really interesting, even if the drama itself was sometimes a bit static. 

 

Yes, I also hope that there is enough of an audience outside of China for whoever is in charge to realise how important good subtitles are. I think it was @bluehibiscusthat said here ages ago, that some programmes within China, have some interactive button which can be pressed for further explanation and elaboration on language, as well as literary and cultural references. I would definitely like that!

[bluehibiscus]

@CDVK Thank you so much for coming out of lurkdom to say hi and sharing your thoughts. It really means a lot to me as I have always wondered how many people are out there reading but not posting. I hope you will continue to join in the discussions. Cheers!

 

@PPB and @CDVK , you have made my day with your kind words. Thank you. I try my best but my command of the language is not up to professional standard and there may be some mistakes here and there.

[bluehibiscus]

Just read a post by the composer of “Snowy Night” (not the official name) where he commented a composer’s most representative composition is often the one he cares the least about while the one he is most satisfied with languishes unnoticed.

 

His favourite piece of composition for Royal Nirvana is the one where CP gets drunk after Teacher Lu’s death ( @PPB may know it well since it is her favourite scene). 

https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4445142314218370

 

It may not sound the nicest but he wanted a cinematic feel to match the acting skills of Luo Jin so he spent a few months to compose it. Some of the music was lost because the original 5-min scene was edited shorter to make the pace tighter but he still feels fairly happy with the result.

 

In comparison, “Snowy Night” was a 3-hour rush job according to conventional standards of what sounds good.

 

Another piece he spent a lot of effort on was 小美好 which can be found in the soundtrack release. This is the bgm used in the caterpillar scene as well as when CP teases Wenxi on the bed after she gets beaten by Wang. He wanted the music to have a comedic feel on the surface but with hints of the tragic undertone of the whole drama. 

https://m.weibo.cn/status/4515268665170653

[PPB]

that's so interesting, thank you @bluehibiscus! Yes, there's a 'behind the scenes' for RN somewhere where you see Luo Jin cry for what seems a really long time for that scene (my favourite scene indeed! what a touchingly beautiful, almost painterly way to show someone's deep grief), longer than what is actually shown. (I know you know what I mean). Then they cut, and he's still in character and cries for a little longer, then they all applaud him for his performance. So good to know that the composer also felt it was an important scene and took his time over it. I suppose the snow scene, as absolutely lovely as it is, is more of a 'stock' scene, easier to do...perhaps... 

 

 

btw, you are too modest! Your English is excellent, and by far superior to the people who do so many of the subtitles at the moment, though I do respect them and know they are not paid much!

[CDVK]

Thank you for the welcome @bluehibiscus. My plan to thank you @bluehibiscusand @PPB, and disappear again is not working out ;-)

Every word of praise for you, you have more than earned. Not only did you tell us the background story, explain the literature referenced and clarify many things, you keep us posted on the developments regarding this series. Thank you so much. I also agree with @PPB, your command of English is very, very good!

I did see the BTS of the crying scene @PPB is talking about. It was much longer and Luo Jin portrayed the grief so well. The directory was crying during the performance, and there was nothing but the sound of people clearing their throat for seconds after and then they broke into a spontaneous applause.

 

I do have some questions that I hope one of you could clarify for me:

1. What was the actual mistake/crime the crown prince Min was accused of committing that was used to depose him?

2. Why does the current emperor deserve to continue to be the emperor? Is he treating his subjects very well? What else is he doing well? Other than filial piety on the part of the crown prince, is there any other good reason to keep him as the emperor?

3. Who made Wenxi the "Talented Person"? Emperor or Emperor at CP's request? Also why is her title different from the other concubines?

[bluehibiscus]

4 hours ago, CDVK said:

I do have some questions that I hope one of you could clarify for me:

1. What was the actual mistake/crime the crown prince Min was accused of committing that was used to depose him?

2. Why does the current emperor deserve to continue to be the emperor? Is he treating his subjects very well? What else is he doing well? Other than filial piety on the part of the crown prince, is there any other good reason to keep him as the emperor?

3. Who made Wenxi the "Talented Person"? Emperor or Emperor at CP's request? Also why is her title different from the other concubines?

 

1. His crime was never explicitly explained. We can deduce he was set up by Gu Yu Shan, Gu Si Lin and Xiao Rui Jian.

 

2. He is a fitting emperor who has not made any major mistakes. Filial piety aside, the cost of forcibly changing the emperor (countless lives of the innocent) outweighs the benefits and is selfish in CP’s view.

 

3. It should be CP’s decision. Cai Ren was one of the lowest ranking concubines (the system of rule and rites in the novel are based on Ming dynasty while the art, costumes and customs are based on Song dynasty). The starting rank of a concubine can be influenced by the concubine’s family background and social status, both of which are low in Gu Neiren’s case. Another reason he didn’t want to give her a high rank was because someone was making use of her and a favoured high-ranking concubine will appear more useful than an unfavoured low-ranking one. 

 

[bluehibiscus]

Another piece of trivia: Some of Wenxi’s earrings and accessories in the drama are from the author’s personal collection and Li Yitong revealed that she gifted all of them to her in the end. The author revealed the pieces come from a shop called 静尘轩.

 

 

 

 

 

Here’s what a google search of the shop’s collections throws up.

https://www.taobao.com/list/product/静尘轩.htm

 

 

[alittlebityours]

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

@bluehibiscusI just finished watching Royal Nirvana and so glad I found this forum. I had to sign up for an account so I can comment and thank you. I really appreciate all the effort that you’ve put into the transcript translation of the RN special

[PPB]

had a quick look, gorgeous jewellery @bluehibiscus... thank you for that. I wish I could buy some, on the other hand, not really going anywhere at the moment for such nice pieces...lol! 

 

Nice to have here another fan @CDVK! 

 

a warm welcome to @alittlebityours 

 

I'm so enjoying being able to indulge in talk about my favourite drama here with people who share my passion! (and not bore everyone else - they don't know a thing!- at home!)

[bluehibiscus]

1 hour ago, alittlebityours said:

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@bluehibiscusI just finished watching Royal Nirvana and so glad I found this forum. I had to sign up for an account so I can comment and thank you. I really appreciate all the effort that you’ve put into the transcript translation of the RN special

 

@alittlebityours Hi welcome and hope you will stick around to post your thoughts on the drama! Perhaps you can share with us what is your favourite scene so far and which character you like the most.

 

I am glad my efforts are helping non-Chinese speakers watching Royal Nirvana in some small way.

[sombreslunes]

thank you all for your hard work on this drama. This is one of my top 3 chinese dramas. We focused on the script but we can also speek of the filming , the qualité of the light, the costums, the sets.... There are some séquences shoots so good.

Now I am only focused on chinese dramas since I have wached my first on Netflix (the rise of the phoenixes)

This Is the beginning of a (I hope) long relationship.

I am also glad to find this discussion on Royal Nirvana with so high Revel commente and information.

[sombreslunes]

Sorry for the slip_up of language on my post. I hope you will correct it youself...

I just want to add that I am learning chinese  at first because of chineses dramas and the bad subs that I encounter along the internet sites. Now I am learning it because I am hooked and addict.

This is a long journey but it is really really worthwhile.

[bluehibiscus]

@sombreslunes If you want to edit your post, you can do so by clicking the three dots at the top right corner and then selecting “Edit”. It’s really cool that you are learning Chinese. I like your suggestion about discussing other aspects of the drama. Will post back shortly. 

[bluehibiscus]

@sombreslunesIn terms of impressive camera work, the ones that come immediately to my mind are:

 

1) In Ep1, about 5:30 after the opening song, the camera moves seamlessly from the messenger on the ground up to an overhead shot of the officials gathered before Yan An Palace, setting up the stage for understanding the conflicts in the drama.

 

2) In Ep 49, about 10:00 after the opening song, CP is about to go out when it strikes him that Eunuch Wang may try to do something to Wenxi while he’s not around. His expression when he stops and looks at Eunuch Wang is just precious. The way the camera moves from the front of CP to his back and then his left-hand side in the same shot is really masterful and tells the viewers what CP is thinking without the use of any words.

 

Do you all want to share your faves?

[alittlebityours]

13 hours ago, bluehibiscus said:

 

 

@alittlebityours Hi welcome and hope you will stick around to post your thoughts on the drama! Perhaps you can share with us what is your favorite scene so far and which character you like the most.

 

I am glad my efforts are helping non-Chinese speakers watching Royal Nirvana in some small way.

Thank you for your warm welcome!  @bluehibiscus and @PPB

My personal favorite is probably the scene when CP and WX finally met again at Minister Lu's residence. The shot was beautifully done with snow and their conversation through the screen. My favorite character has to be Wenxi, her life is so tragic and so unfair, my poor heart can't handle these moments. I also like Minister Lu (the teacher) for his righteouness and of course Gu Fengen.

 

I am also watching the RN special and read through your transcript and it made so much sense to me. I have some questions though.

Spoiler

Why would CP make WX a concubine and then leave her in the palace in the wood and not visit her for three years? This part really doesn't make any sense to me :( 

Also, when did he realize Gu Cairen is Wenxi? My thought is that CP knows it all along but didn't want to admit it? 

 

[CDVK]

21 hours ago, bluehibiscus said:

 

1. His crime was never explicitly explained. We can deduce he was set up by Gu Yu Shan, Gu Si Lin and Xiao Rui Jian.

 

2. He is a fitting emperor who has not made any major mistakes. Filial piety aside, the cost of forcibly changing the emperor (countless lives of the innocent) outweighs the benefits and is selfish in CP’s view.

 

3. It should be CP’s decision. Cai Ren was one of the lowest ranking concubines (the system of rule and rites in the novel are based on Ming dynasty while the art, costumes and customs are based on Song dynasty). The starting rank of a concubine can be influenced by the concubine’s family background and social status, both of which are low in Gu Neiren’s case. Another reason he didn’t want to give her a high rank was because someone was making use of her and a favoured high-ranking concubine will appear more useful than an unfavoured low-ranking one. 

 

 

Thankyou @bluehibiscus for answering my questions. For 2, it still seems like his method of governing attracts and encourages corrupt officials and he protects criminal activity on the part of queen and Prince Qi many times - until he no longer has a choice on the matter (my 2 cts). 

 

I think I have many favorite scenes, but certainly one is in ep 48 (around 23:20), when CP flirts with Wenxi, asking if she wanted to have some pomegranates (indirectly asking if she wanted to be his concubine). Wang's reaction to the question + Wenxi's reply to it is a good moment. The farewell scene in Royal Nirvana Special, ep 12 is also a favorite - heart wrenching but beautifully done! Both Luo Jin and Li Yi Tong performed beautifully and were well matched in their skills.

16 hours ago, alittlebityours said:

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@bluehibiscusI just finished watching Royal Nirvana and so glad I found this forum. I had to sign up for an account so I can comment and thank you. I really appreciate all the effort that you’ve put into the transcript translation of the RN special

Welcome @alittlebityours!

 

14 hours ago, sombreslunes said:

thank you all for your hard work on this drama. This is one of my top 3 chinese dramas. We focused on the script but we can also speek of the filming , the qualité of the light, the costums, the sets.... There are some séquences shoots so good.

Now I am only focused on chinese dramas since I have wached my first on Netflix (the rise of the phoenixes)

This Is the beginning of a (I hope) long relationship.

I am also glad to find this discussion on Royal Nirvana with so high Revel commente and information.

Welcome @sombreslunes!

 

@bluehibiscus, I told you there were many of us - silent readers out there :-)

Edited November 16, 2020 by CDVK
wrong quote

[bluehibiscus]

5 hours ago, alittlebityours said:

Thank you for your warm welcome!  @bluehibiscus and @PPB

My personal favorite is probably the scene when CP and WX finally met again at Minister Lu's residence. The shot was beautifully done with snow and their conversation through the screen. My favorite character has to be Wenxi, her life is so tragic and so unfair, my poor heart can't handle these moments. I also like Minister Lu (the teacher) for his righteouness and of course Gu Fengen.

 

I am also watching the RN special and read through your transcript and it made so much sense to me. I have some questions though.

  Hide contents

Why would CP make WX a concubine and then leave her in the palace in the wood and not visit her for three years? This part really doesn't make any sense to me

Also, when did he realize Gu Cairen is Wenxi? My thought is that CP knows it all along but didn't want to admit it? 

 

 

Thanks, @alittlebityours and @CDVK for sharing your favourite scenes.

 

That scene in the snow with the screen between them is also one of my top favourites. Their dialogue is so beautiful and meaningful (especially the explanation of his name and their bantering), the background music so poignant and perfect for the scene, the chemistry so great.

 

My favourite OTP scenes are:

1) Caterpillar+kiss scene,

2) CP gets jealous and applies ointment while Shaoyun is outside,

3) The snow scene above,

4) The first time she addresses him as CP with the snow falling,

5) He scolds her fiercely and then calms himself down to teach her writing,

6) They play with the bird trap at Zong Zheng Si and he smiles at her,

7) CP holds her hand and says she’s his person,

8) Their first screen meeting,

9) Their outing the night before Mid Autumn festival,

10) Their conversation after he brings her back from Zong Zheng Si,

11) His wanting to give the order to flog her but unable to when she refuses ro explain about the love letter,

12) Her holding onto his garment and refusing to let go so he has to work next to the bed,

13)Their conversation in Zong Zheng Si under the fireworks,

14) They lie in bed after he is flogged,

 

Oh gosh, I originally wanted to list my top 10 but realise I can’t stop at 10. I like the pomegranate scene and the scene where he teases her in bed while Xi Xiang is watching too.

 

His idea of isolating her in the woods is to keep her safe. If the mastermind behind her believes she is unfavoured and has no access to information, he can’t make her do much and may decide to abandon her in the end. If he tries to contact her, it will be easy to catch him as CP has her put under watch and no one else is supposed to be visiting her.

 

He realised it when he read the letter by Wenxi’s brother that was found on Chang An. Originally, he should have realised it already in the previous season but to continue the script according to the novel, they made 5th Prince ask Wenxi not to reveal her identity as it could make him lose his life and Chang An helped him by claiming Wenxi was still in Changzhou.

 

@CDVKYou have a point there but his ultimate aim is also to clear up corruption by getting rid of the unduly influential officials. As for condoning Empress Zhao’s and Qi’s crimes, I guess CP feels it is his fault for being born so he can understand why the Emperor did what he did and his people should not be made to pay for this.

 

It’s really great that more silent readers are coming in to join the discussion. Thank you all dearly for that.

[alittlebityours]

2 hours ago, bluehibiscus said:

 

Thanks, @alittlebityours and @CDVK for sharing your favourite scenes.

 

That scene in the snow with the screen between them is also one of my top favourites. Their dialogue is so beautiful and meaningful (especially the explanation of his name and their bantering), the background music so poignant and perfect for the scene, the chemistry so great.

 

My favourite OTP scenes are:

1) Caterpillar+kiss scene,

2) CP gets jealous and applies ointment while Shaoyun is outside,

3) The snow scene above,

4) The first time she addresses him as CP with the snow falling,

5) He scolds her fiercely and then calms himself down to teach her writing,

6) They play with the bird trap at Zong Zheng Si and he smiles at her,

7) CP holds her hand and says she’s his person,

8) Their first screen meeting,

9) Their outing the night before Mid Autumn festival,

10) Their conversation after he brings her back from Zong Zheng Si,

11) His wanting to give the order to flog her but unable to when she refuses ro explain about the love letter,

12) Her holding onto his garment and refusing to let go so he has to work next to the bed,

13)Their conversation in Zong Zheng Si under the fireworks,

14) They lie in bed after he is flogged,

 

Oh gosh, I originally wanted to list my top 10 but realise I can’t stop at 10. I like the pomegranate scene and the scene where he teases her in bed while Xi Xiang is watching too.

 

His idea of isolating her in the woods is to keep her safe. If the mastermind behind her believes she is unfavoured and has no access to information, he can’t make her do much and may decide to abandon her in the end. If he tries to contact her, it will be easy to catch him as CP has her put under watch and no one else is supposed to be visiting her.

 

He realised it when he read the letter by Wenxi’s brother that was found on Chang An. Originally, he should have realised it already in the previous season but to continue the script according to the novel, they made 5th Prince ask Wenxi not to reveal her identity as it could make him lose his life and Chang An helped him by claiming Wenxi was still in Changzhou.

 

@CDVKYou have a point there but his ultimate aim is also to clear up corruption by getting rid of the unduly influential officials. As for condoning Empress Zhao’s and Qi’s crimes, I guess CP feels it is his fault for being born so he can understand why the Emperor did what he did and his people should not be made to pay for this.

 

It’s really great that more silent readers are coming in to join the discussion. Thank you all dearly for that.

Hehe, I don’t think anyone of us can stop at top 10. The OTP does have lots of good moments together, I love their bittersweet relationship. 

I just finished all 12 episodes, some translations were all over the place so I’ll be reading your transcripts later on, thank you for that :-)

My other favorite is at the end of episode 12 ss2. When WX visited CP after his visit in Changzhou, her knowing CP took the hairpin and still support his idea made me balling so bad  both of their acting was absolutely phenomenal and the instrumental music behind that scene was on point.

I am normally not a fan of historical drama but RN really changed my point of view.

[PPB]

@alittlebityours so true, very difficult to stop at 10..!

 

I have been thinking about the scenes, and yes, I kind of love all of them.. lol!

 

In my view, the whole pace of the drama is set in the opening credits (as it often is). The shot of the Emperor turning and looking at the camera, CP looking sideways  at the sky from a window, so many... and in fact that's the thing, the camera panning slowly across screens and gates, or slowly zooming in on Wenxi's beautiful face (there are many examples of this, the latest is when she officially becomes CP's concubine - seeing CP clearly in love with her, but pretending not to quite notice her, a very good bit of acting there), or zooming in slowly on anything. It's all very effective, and in fact I wish others copied that a bit more, at least in terms of pace. Many historical dramas have amazing sets, truly beautiful to gaze at, but the story gets caught up in what happens next, that the details get lost, such a shame!  Together with beautiful music, the camerawork in RN is a very striking and effective tool. 

 

My favourites include all of the ones people have mentioned, though my top one, perhaps predictably, is the scene where CP and Wenxi meet, when she's airing the books, behind the screen. Like most, I have watched many dramas with love stories in it, and this scene is truly original, really inspired. The scene is completely and utterly captivating, romantic in the best, purest way, and mysterious at the same time. I also love the scene in ep 60 with the snow and the screen, of course, but that is more of a often seen, romantic scene, though there the delicate touch of the camera is again seen to great, and better, effect. 

 

My second favourite of all is the scene of the funeral of the Crown Princess, absolutely, hauntingly, beautiful. The music is the master here, telling the story almost by itself, with the majestic but utterly desolate funeral procession. And Wenxi, wounded from her various beatings, getting up with great effort, kneeling and bidding her farewell one last time.... oh my goodness, I could cry just thinking about it. 

 

I feel very happy to have watched such a high calibre drama, with such artistic merit.