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[Mainland Chinese Drama 2019] Heavenly Sword Dragon Slaying Saber 倚天屠龙记

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9 minutes ago, LaurenPanna said:

 

I get where you are coming from. Because if let's say we really go according to the novel, in this kind of situation, after the assassination, the novel 's ZWJ would have just make the decision to leave with ZM, looking at how the Ming sect members behaved. I was actually looking forward to him leaving with her. But somehow the producer' s idea is to construct a slightly different WJ. This WJ mainly only had his eyes for ZM, unlike the novel WJ who was still unsure until ZZR asked that important question and hid ZM.

 

But with regards to the ending, the Novel WJ would choose beauty over Jiang shan. Again, the drama portray a different decision WJ made. I was annoyed initially too because this drama WJ reminded me of Guo Jing 's Patriotism. 

 

However, at least i kinda "forgive" him when he said, "No i did not choose my brothers over you. I merely want to keep my promise to save the commoners and give them peace". I guess the production team wanted to express a different idea. 

 

Indeed the reunion is abit too flat for me. They should at least allow them some time to chat abit, so that we know why WJ left, what happened to the sect members, and how did minmin get on with her life after the assassination? And how would she cope living with someone who reminded her of her father death? And what kind of assurance would WJ give her and how do WJ feel after hearing what she went through with her life for past few years of separation after the assassination? 

Yup, i must add if ZWJ wanted to runaway, he would not have rejected ZM advances everytime. They made ZWJ has patriotic side of him other than wishy washy like in the novel. He just can't leave the revolution until it succeed the original purpose. We understand the same with you that the finale fell so flat and the reunion just like that. 

 

They should make epilogue for us about how's life after Yuan emperor escaped.

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I completely agree that both ZM and WJ cannot go back to the person they were before.  Both of them have lost their loved ones, and they have to and should grow up,  together or apart, through all the ordeals.  But I feel that doesn't mean they cannot let go of the burdens that are,  to some extend,  not their own doings though. If WJ knowingly let his members go through with this plan or if he himself plotted/killed her father,  then I am all for her to dump him forever and let him stew in his regret till the day he died as it will serve him right (if not too lenient). But this is not the case.  They are both victims and both have loved and lost so much. Even worse,  he cannot just drop everything in such a crucial time (which i respect of him in this version). 

 

 I guess for ZM,  her biggest disappointment with WJ in my opinion was he chose to stay with the Ming brothers,  especially ZYZ who have clearly went behind his back (although I think deep inside she already knew WJ will not just go with her at that time) . But at the end,  there he was,  finally extricated himself from the muddles of the fights.  I am still not sure if prolonging their angst are most appropriate at this moment, and still not convinced. It will be nice to have a longer epilogue but what we have work for me. 

 

For me,  it's like a parallel of WJ life.  As a young kid,  he suffered tragic lost of his parents at the "hands" of the 6 sects members.  Then,  his grandpa died at the hand of RYW's troops.  He can choose to hate and use the sufferings as a reason to hold it against the 6 sect members or blamed it on ZM ( a path that ZR somewhat chose: let her hatred blinded her of what she could have had), but he didn't. The assassination plot works for me because it really emphasize the wider and wider divide between WJ with his idealistic view of what Ming should do to win the war versus ZYZ, FY,  and other Ming members whose goal, it seems,  is to win the war,  whatever it takes. WJ is just not equipped to be a military leader,  which kind of expected if he ever become a king. 

 

But this is just my opinion though. To each their own , I guess. 

 

Peace all :D

 

Edited to add:

I also noticed the lipstick stain on the cup and he looked at it before taking a big gulp, and I thought: whoa,  bold lol

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2 hours ago, insertusernamehere said:

This scene was really nice in the novel too. You can't tell here but the "voiceover" in WJ's head was saying how the lipstick mark was a light shade of pink, with a hint of fragrance, and he was moved (meaning he was moved by her femininity/presence). It was quite romantic!

 

(I'm too lazy to find the whole quote here :sweatingbullets:)

 

"Zhang Wuji also raised his cup. Under the light from the coal of the hot pot stove he faintly saw lipstick mark on the edge of the cup, while his nose caught a soft and sweet smelling fragrance. He did not know whether the fragrance came from the lipstick mark on his cup, or it was the perfume she was wearing. With a shaken heart he drank the wine."

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38 minutes ago, graceeedwardmom said:

Yup, i must add if ZWJ wanted to runaway, he would not have rejected ZM advances everytime. They made ZWJ has patriotic side of him other than wishy washy like in the novel. He just can't leave the revolution until it succeed the original purpose. We understand the same with you that the finale fell so flat and the reunion just like that. 

 

They should make epilogue for us about how's life after Yuan emperor escaped.

 

Yes, yes, in a way i feel that they wanted a WJ with more "integrity" and stick to his Principles. He only want the best for ZM so he rejected her time and again. He see the commoners suffering so he wanted to keep his promise to commoners, not that he is totally forgiving towards the brothers. This WJ is just so different and not everyone can be perfect 

 

 

Side track, i think i decided not to watch any drama for the time being. The withdrawal symptoms is so bad on me. I wonder why really 

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On 4/19/2019 at 5:45 AM, LaurenPanna said:

Someone mentioned that you want to download that video. 

 

I manage to download from weibo and I have uploaded to YouTube 

 

This is my link. 

 

Oh wow, Lauren... I haven't heard that song in years. A vestige from the past blasting through. But it works rather well with the editor's compilation. 

 

12 hours ago, AppleBanana said:

https://www.bilibili.com/video/av48934338/?spm_id_from=333.788.videocard.4

 

@jackieusaI clicked on your link to see the MVs and clicked on something on there that took me to this website (bililili) and there are so many MVs there. I didnt understand anything on the webpage but i Clicked on this one MV that turns out to be 7 minutes, I kid you not, of the kiss scene replayed to different background themesongs. LOL. Was def not expecting that. Thought I'd shared it with you guys. They choose a bunch of good songs too.

 

I feel like such a voyeur... or to put it more colloquially.. a perv... watching that clip. :P (The comments streaming at the top of the screen were also a laugh and a half as well) For a kid of his age, Joseph performed admirably. ;) At least it looks heartfelt and authentic especially the gulp at the end. Some of the fan comments below thought our boy got a bit rough but hey... it was his confession for crying out loud and it fits with his boyish passion for life. It was his way of letting her know the depth of his feelings.

Enjoyed the music choices. Had a good chuckle after the fourth one. The third one had a Celine Dionesque sort of feel to it. It reminded me of her rendition of The Power of Love. 

 

3 hours ago, takeu2themoon said:

 

Probably because this remake portrayed more WJ-ZM romance, it's hands-down the best HSDS by many fans. I had watched 2 versions and had read the novel 3 times before watching this one, I also think it is. Along with its ZM-WJ are the best ZM-WJ, too. Yet after the finale I still feel the same as you, disappointed.

 

 

I can't speak for anyone else but for me this is the best version that I've seen because the show treats the characters like multidimensional creatures ie. real people... except for Chen Kun perhaps but everyone needs a villain they can hate... and avoids caricaturizing the characters with simplistic notions of "good" and "evil". The show did a brilliant job IMO developing character motivations and relationship dynamics particularly that between WJ and the men in his life. Also it played out that good vs evil theme in a highly sophisticated, consistent manner right to the bitter end. It's interesting to me too that the drama did not sanitize the Ming cause or demonize the Mongolian leadership... I hope it is veiled political reaction/statement about the current regime in the mainland because the country's going backwards in many ways.

 

I won't deny that I enjoyed the romance and loved the interactions between WJ and ZM. I loved the light-hearted moments in the early days when they bickered and I also enjoyed the angst... which I believed allowed Joseph to come into his own as a performer. So while I miss the humour of previous versions that came after their coupling... I think there's a trade off which isn't too bad.

They are probably the best WJ and ZM combination for me because of how their respective trajectories intersect. It gave them both a depth I'd never experienced before from other versions. I used to think it was just WJ who had to grow up but this version also demonstrated that she had to go on a similar path. In the end I suspect that they both learned that freedom is something that has to be earned.

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I guess everyone sees things differently.  I'm one of the ones who admire this WJ because he stayed true to his words until the very end.  Even after he decided that he wouldn't marry anyone besides ZM, he still said "world peace comes first, family/romance is secondary".  I appreciate that because I'm a traditionalist and as much as I want WJ to ZM to be together, I don't mind him choosing patriotism over love.  (I would mind if the reason was for another girl though<_<)

 

During that night when WJ and ZM were sitting side by side at the lantern festival, ZM apologized to WJ for her father's persistence in prolonging the war and causing more suffering to the commoners.  She says he's just loyal to the Yuan Dynasty but hopefully, one day he will reflect on his mistakes and stop "going against the heavens".  I felt this was a buildup for the assassination because knowing RYW, he would never give up fighting the Hans unless he dies.

 

As for ZM forgiving WJ, she was never mad at him to begin with.  She knows the reason he stopped her from killing ZYZ was not because he chose his Ming brothers over her.  With WJ, it's always been about the bigger picture (country and world peace) -- that's his trait and why she fell in love with him in the first place.  She wanted him to leave with her because she was worried he would lose himself and eventually succumb to the temptation of power.  But he promised that as soon as he achieved his mission, he would return to her no matter what.

 

When they finally meet, she could tell from his hairstyle and clothing that he's back to his original self and that he kept that promise.  She herself kept her old hairstyle, which many interpret to be her waiting for him to return with the wooden hairpin, so it would have been nice if they added that scene.

 

I thought the production team closed off all the themes nicely which is why I really enjoyed this drama including the ending.  Personally, I don't think it was *that* long (someone said 8 years?) before WJ found ZM in Mongolia, because they still look the same and I read somewhere that WJ took over Ming Sect at the age of 20 and retired with ZM at the age of 22:)

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, taeunfighting said:

 

I too think that this remake probably captivated fans because of the romance. I have watched three versions and read the novel once a long time ago and once again before watching this version. From a romance perspective, what's interesting is that I have been always satisfied with the WJ/ZM love story in the previous adaptations and the novel so it didn't need to take an edited version of it for me to love it.

 

I wished this version didn't incorporate the assassination because to me, not only did it put ZM in a difficult position, it served no point other than to prove that the Ming sect was capable of plotting/fighting the Mongolians themselves and that they didn't really need WJ. It actually made it seem like they only needed WJ to use ZM to get to the Mongolians. Knowing that and their under-handed methods, it would have been the perfect exit for WJ to stay true to his character. So yes, if only WJ had left with ZM right after her father's death, I maybe would be fine with the ending. The fact that he didn't made their romance lose its luster for me. And sadly and it hurts me to say it, it made me not like this version of WJ so much.

 

I agree that ZM does not blame WJ for her father's death, but herself. She said so herself.  But yeah...how ZM was able to cope with her father's death and then reconcile with WJ is another ordeal and beyond me. I still can't understand how she was able to do it even though some time had supposedly passed. This is a another reason why I wish the assassination was not one of changes/deviations.

 

Better 10 pages late than never LOL.

 

I guess ZYZ is not a loving hero for Chinese, they portrayed him so hideous and so wicked in the novel, the drama, even in his figure painting in some museum somewhere, or at least he was not Jin Yong's favorite. In this very HSDS he was so compelling that no members went against his plot. That was something. And the history told us he was to be the next king.  WJ didn't have leader qualities at all, they took him as a kid, or they wouldn't treat him with no respect again and again. 

It would have been better if he was with WU Dong, I think he belonged there.

ZM knew it all, they were scheming, they used him, they didn't listen to him, and she said it out loud. But WJ still didn't want to leave.

It was funny in a scene in some version or in the novel I'm not sure, ZM talking with WJ about how she was about to slash ZR face, she asked what if she did it and he answered he wouldn't be friend with her and would never talk to her again. I think this says so much about WJ character. i agree, this WJ was not the WJ we had known, and I miss the novel's WJ, at least he could tell ZYZ was a hypocrite then walked away.

 

Some poster said it had something to do with Chinese censorship board, hope that the TVB version's ending can be more satisfied.

Or we should hope for the next version instead?

 

 

 

Edited by takeu2themoon
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On 4/19/2019 at 3:06 AM, Yitian_fan said:

 

 

"I killed your wife? Which one?  Is it Zhou Zhangmen or the daughter of Ying yewang?" [Poking at the fact that he promised to marry Yinli and then promised to marry ZZR, but never did the same for ZM.]

 

Then RYW went on to tell ZWJ that ZM betrayed her father and her country, so he is entirely justified in killing her.  Not only that but if he didn't kill her others would, so the fault is in her betrayal. But it is ZWJ's actions that are unjustifiable.

 

ZM gave up everything for ZWJ, but when RYW sent his men for her, he found to his surprise that she was entirely alone and undefended.  Where was ZWJ then when she needed him?

 

Obviously she chose the wrong man.  Clearly, WBB continues accusingly, ZWJ seduced her, used her to get Ming sect out of trouble,  then let Yuan troops capture her and kill her so that he now has an excuse to assassinate RYW.

 

Coldly RYW tells him that he will crush ZWJ on the battle field to make him regret sacrificing his (RYW's) ZM for "the world"

  

 

Oh, I love this!! Thank you.

Where can I find more of this in English? 

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22 hours ago, achng said:

I guess everyone sees things differently.  I'm one of the ones who admire this WJ because he stayed true to his words until the very end.  Even after he decided that he wouldn't marry anyone besides ZM, he still said "World peace comes first, family/romance is secondary".  I'm fine with that because I'm a traditionalist and as much as I want WJ to ZM to be together, I don't mind him choosing patriotism over love.  (I would mind if the reason was for another girl though<_<)

 

 

It's not so much his patriotism that I admire although I appreciated his commitment to the betterment of the ordinary folk. It's more the fact that he was principled in the face of tremendous obstacles that made him one of the special ones. But I didn't expect anything less from the same WJ who faced off MJ on GMD, who allowed himself to be hurt by people repeatedly in order to keep the peace. 

 

My reaction to the final reunion was relief. Not that I doubted that they would be together but my relief was over the fact that he was truly free to live the kind of life he wanted with the woman of his choice without having to answer to some elder or committee. I think it was telling that he didn't walk away reactively (in his case, the plots and schemes of others) but he chose to walk away on his own terms, at the time of his choosing. By doing so, WJ showed himself to be a truly free agent because his conscience is clear and most importantly... there are no regrets... no second guessing.  By not reacting on impulse, he earns his freedom.

 

It always fascinates me in this version that it is so obvious that WJ is besotted with ZM from the early days. The camera is quite insistent on that. So the issue is never about how much he loves her or vice versa. She knows, he knows. He knows that she knows. However, the prospect of that romance is still a disruption to his principles and goals. It isn't just secondary to national concerns, it challenges his ability to stay focused on the path at every turn. The girl in question is all kinds of "unsuitable" but there's no doubt she moves him in a way that none of the other girls do. The goal is never the romance... at least not here... the goal is to find the balance to act as a free agent without compromising his core principles.

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3 minutes ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

 

It's not so much his patriotism that I admire although I appreciated his commitment to the betterment of the ordinary folk. It's more the fact that he was principled in the face of tremendous obstacles that made him one of the special ones. But I didn't expect anything less from the same WJ who faced off MJ on GMD, who allowed himself to be hurt by people repeatedly in order to keep the peace. 

 

My reaction to the final reunion was relief. Not that I doubted that they would be together but my relief was over the fact that he was truly free to live the kind of life he wanted with the woman of his choice without having to answer to some elder or committee. I think it was telling that he didn't walk away reactively (in his case, the plots and schemes of others) but he chose to walk away on his own terms, at the time of his choosing. By doing so, WJ showed himself to be a truly free agent because his conscience is clear and most importantly... there are no regrets... no second guessing.  By not reacting on impulse, he earns his freedom.

 

It's always fascinates me in this version that it is so obvious that WJ is besotted with ZM from the early days. The camera is quite insistent on that. So the issue is never about how much he loves her or vice versa. She knows, he knows. He knows that she knows. However, the prospect of that romance is still a disruption to his principles and goals. It isn't just secondary to national concerns, it challenges his ability to stay focused on the path at every turn. The girl in question is all kinds of "unsuitable" but there's no doubt she moves him in a way that none of the other girls do. The goal is never the romance... at least not here... the goal is to find the balance to act as a free agent without compromising his core principles.

Well said!! I really love your analysis 

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20 minutes ago, ildiz said:
  Hide contents

[video-to-gif output image]

 

Behind cut 

Director should have add 1 kiss here won't hurt.. hehd

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6 hours ago, LaurenPanna said:

Side tracked:

 

This is how i felt exactly. And reason is i seldom watch drama, so to speak 

 

https://kisforkdrama.wordpress.com/2016/03/16/how-i-deal-with-drama-withdrawal-syndrome/

Same! I don’t have withdrawal symptoms much when I watch dramas and I used to watch a lot. Not so much nowadays but man has this got me good. 

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11 hours ago, LaurenPanna said:

I notice that lipmark too during the first time. I thought to myself, wow sexy haha 

Impressed with this producer who produced details that are not obvious yet still obvious enough for audience to realise and allow fans like us to kill time by analysing them before the next episode telecast 

 

I started writing a Short paragraph of Mongol reunion aftermath to fulfil my desired closure. Not sure if this considered Fanfic. Hope i can write well enough to share. 

 

Please share!!

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, LaurenPanna said:

 

Bluesky

Thank you! 

I tried pm you but not sure if it went through. I used snapchat apps to download videos from YouTube 

 

Hi Regina Goh!!! "wave" 

Your name sound like you are from the same region as me!! Do you happen to be from SG / MY? 

 

---Glad to hear we are Normal! - - - 

 

I just manage to upload a series of short clips onto my personal YouTube channel. All are clips of some of my favourite scenes of WJ minmin

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkOfCFU3nXuTKTvGM8FxsXQ

Yes! I'm from Singapore :) What about you?

 

By the way, I really love reading everyone's analysis and comments! I analyze a lot in my head too haha but it's all a mess to pen down in words. I love this version the most for most of the reasons shared by those who like this version too. My first was the 1994 version (LOLLLL) and second was 2003. I like Ady An but I could not watch the 2009 version (I tried).

Edited by Regina Goh
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