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[Mainland Chinese Drama 2019] Heavenly Sword Dragon Slaying Saber 倚天屠龙记

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40 minutes ago, dydrawer said:

This is technically pretty justified according to the back story of the sword and the saber. Guo Jing and Huang Rong forged them and hid secrets in them in the hope that one day a righteous hero will take them and expel the Mongolian conquerors from China. The swords was then passed to Guo Xiang, who was the founder of Ermei Sect. The saber was supposed to pass to her brother, but he died along his parents fighting the Mongolians and the saber was then lost.

 

So as the sect's current leader, she has a more legitimate claim on the artifacts and their secrets than everyone else. It had belonged to her sect's founder's family, after all. ZWJ later became the legitimate wielder but that's only because of his leadership role in the war against the Mongols, which was what the sword and the saber was meant for.

 

In the novel, the "killing" of YL was the part ZR felt the most guilty about. Like mentioned previously, she had a totally legitimate claim on the sword and the saber, and she alone knew their origin and secrets, so totally understandable if she did not feel any guilt taking them. ZM was her enemy, not only because she was a Mongolian princess (which the ethnic Han Chinese had viewed with intense hatred) but also because ZM imprisoned the Ermei Sect and effectively killed her master. There's no reason why she should feel guilty about framing her and making ZWJ go after her. The only innocent victim was YL. And I think that's where the guilt comes from. I'm curious to see where they are going to take this: is this denial, or does she truly believe that ends justify the means? Is she a Raskolnikov? or a Napoleon?

 

 

IMO, If ZZR love and trust ZWJ enough, she should explain the hid secrets to him.  I'm pretty sure ZWJ might help her get the sword and saber for her Ermec sect.  Because of her jealousy of WJ loves ZM more than her when they were at snake island, she went all out to drugged, stole, murdered, and framed innocence people just to claims those kung fu manual and war strategy.  I think she's a ambitious woman and wants to claim Ermec and herself to be world number 1 and lost ZWJ in the process. 

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13 minutes ago, jackieusa said:

IMO, If ZZR love and trust ZWJ enough, she should explain the hid secrets to him.  I'm pretty sure ZWJ might help her get the sword and saber for her Ermec sect.  Because of her jealousy of WJ loves ZM more than her when they were at snake island, she went all out to drugged, stole, murdered, and framed innocence people just to claims those kung fu manual and war strategy.  I think she's a ambitious woman and wants to claim Ermec and herself to be world number 1 and lost ZWJ in the process. 

I don't think she want to tell ZWJ the secret of what inside the sword & saber. If he know, I don't think he will help her get it because the sword is in ZM hand & the saber is with his godfather. Since she want Ermei to be no. 1 there no way she will tell anyone. It all because she jealous with ZM on the Snake Island and this is her plan.

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Yes since Saber is in the possession of his Godfather, and sword is with ZM, NO way nice-talk with ZWJ to acquire these weapons would have worked! ZWJ would NOT be OK with it. She is at least smart enough to know who ZWJ wouldn't betray!

But I still don't see the action was evil in anyway. It was more of 'Obeying the orders of her master (MeiJue) and the conflict of her devotion to that duty more. As I said earlier, these  (Wudan, Ermei, Shaolin, etc) sects people are mostly arrogant, pretentious with the views whoever they kill are JUSTIFIED, so that misguided view passed on to her, as well.
 

And we have to remember she didn't even want to become the leader at ALL, but MeiJue really forced her to become the leader, took on those oaths to do THESE awful things!

She didn't always insist Ermei to be world's #1 from the start, her master MeiJue FORCED her to think that way, from the way I am seeing it!

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40 minutes ago, Don Yu said:

Yes since Saber is in the possession of his Godfather, and sword is with ZM, NO way nice-talk with ZWJ to acquire these weapons would have worked! ZWJ would NOT be OK with it. She is at least smart enough to know who ZWJ wouldn't betray!

But I still don't see the action was evil in anyway. It was more of 'Obeying the orders of her master (MeiJue) and the conflict of her devotion to that duty more. As I said earlier, these  (Wudan, Ermei, Shaolin, etc) sects people are mostly arrogant, pretentious with the views whoever they kill are JUSTIFIED, so that misguided view passed on to her, as well.
 

And we have to remember she didn't even want to become the leader at ALL, but MeiJue really forced her to become the leader, took on those oaths to do THESE awful things!

She didn't always insist Ermei to be world's #1 from the start, her master MeiJue FORCED her to think that way, from the way I am seeing it!

I think her master definitely pushed her along but I think at the end of the day she has to take some responsibility for the way it was executed.

 

ZWJ wouldn’t go about getting the sword the same ruthless manner had he been in ZZR’s shoes. 

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Hey I am NOT defending ZZR is a character you should love instead of ZM at all, that's not what I am saying. Which maybe what you all been thinking, but no. That's NOT up for debate, ZM is clearly a better character, at the end of the day.

Only am getting at how evil she (ZZR) is from the start and thru out the plot so far, that's all! DON'T misunderstand.


And I think her master MeiJue would definitely have APPROVED her way of execution, on the island. Not only that, probably go even further and quickly KILL Wuji and ZM but ZZR actually allowed them to live! So that would have likely disappointed MeiJue, despite she did good on the sword and saber part.

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Now I feel really bad for WJ, I totally believe WJ will give ZR the dragon sabre if she just told him the secret inside it. XX always wanted to give WJ the sabre anyway. As a I remember it Guo Jing hide the tactics book inside right? If ZZR just tell him that it could help drive out the Yan dynasty out of the mainland he would totally give it to her. WJ is also not a power hungry man what does he need for Jiu yin manual anyway, if ZR told him it was Guo Xiang's he'll give it back to Er Mei.

For Yi Tian why can't ZR just fight ZM for it in a fair fight? I guess that ZR and ZM martial arts is about the same, ZR might win on nei gong though, I think ZM was not taught enough, but it will be a fair fight. And ZM might be impressed with ZR to actually be offered a duel. Just like in GMD when WJ's grandpa got hurt all the Wu Dang people try not to use nei gong because they know he's hurt, if you use nei gong doesn't that mean you're just bullying the person.

The problem is ZR just can't trust WJ even though she thinks she loves him and at the end of the day was doing the underhanded method and still can't admit that it is stealing. Just because you think you own something does not mean you should do the underhanded method, than what different are you from the people you like to slander. WJ also know that Yi Tian is Er Mei's sword but he never once try to take it by force which he totally could many times, even ZM knows that but she still lend him the sword many times because ZM knows if he wants to take it he will tell her first. 

 

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8 minutes ago, kur4p1k4 said:

Now I feel really bad for WJ, I totally believe WJ will give ZR the dragon sabre if she just told him the secret inside it. XX always wanted to give WJ the sabre anyway. As a I remember it Guo Jing hide the tactics book inside right? If ZZR just tell him that it could help drive out the Yan dynasty out of the mainland he would totally give it to her. WJ is also not a power hungry man what does he need for Jiu yin manual anyway, if ZR told him it was Guo Xiang's he'll give it back to Er Mei.

For Yi Tian why can't ZR just fight ZM for it in a fair fight? I guess that ZR and ZM martial arts is about the same, ZR might win on nei gong though, I think ZM was not taught enough, but it will be a fair fight. And ZM might be impressed with ZR to actually be offered a duel. Just like in GMD when WJ's grandpa got hurt all the Wu Dang people try not to use nei gong because they know he's hurt, if you use nei gong doesn't that mean you're just bullying the person.

The problem is ZR just can't trust WJ even though she thinks she loves him and at the end of the day was doing the underhanded method and still can't admit that it is stealing. Just because you think you own something does not mean you should do the underhanded method, than what different are you from the people you like to slander. WJ also know that Yi Tian is Er Mei's sword but he never once try to take it by force which he totally could many times, even ZM knows that but she still lend him the sword many times because ZM knows if he wants to take it he will tell her first. 

 

 

I second you. ZWJ will definitely lend her the sabre knowing that Yue Fei's wu mu yi shu war strategies book is inside. Xie xun will agree too since Ming Sect mission is to take back Han Land and the book would be of great use to them. Moreover its the Tulong Sabre secret that XX wish to uncover for the past 2 decades and he would get his wish if ZZR tell the truth, and ZWJ would be happy to help his godfather fulfil the wish. Sometimes it only prove that ZZR didn't know ZWj well enough to trust him. 

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21 minutes ago, kur4p1k4 said:

The problem is ZR just can't trust WJ even though she thinks she loves him and at the end of the day was doing the underhanded method and still can't admit that it is stealing.

Remember, Master Miejue labelled Ming as one of her sect's mortal enemies. ZR's mission is to use ZWJ's feelings for her for Ermei's gain. Miejue never meant for her protegee to become friends with ZWJ, let alone marrying him (in fact she put a vicious curse on such an event). ZR was only supposed to manipulate ZWJ and carry out covert acts. It's just that she has deep feelings for him too, which complicated matters, and this internal conflict is what makes this character interesting.

 

There is a newly added passage in the 3rd edition of the novel that's very telling. ZR was actually thinking about killing ZWJ that night, but she could not bring herself to doing it after seeing him so happy and cute in his sleep. There is no doubt that she loved him deeply and the author made it very clear. I don't think marrying him was part of the plan. This is evident in how heavily Miejue's curse weighed on her after the betrothal.

 

And by no means I'm trying to fully exonerate her. Ermei sect's performance at the Shaolin Temple conference was despicable and she's largely responsible.

 

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1 hour ago, dydrawer said:

Remember, Master Miejue labelled Ming as one of her sect's mortal enemies. ZR's mission is to use ZWJ's feelings for her for Ermei's gain. Miejue never meant for her protegee to become friends with ZWJ, let alone marrying him (in fact she put a vicious curse on such an event). ZR was only supposed to manipulate ZWJ and carry out covert acts. It's just that she has deep feelings for him too, which complicated matters, and this internal conflict is what makes this character interesting.

 

There is a newly added passage in the 3rd edition of the novel that's very telling. ZR was actually thinking about killing ZWJ that night, but she could not bring herself to doing it after seeing him so happy and cute in his sleep. There is no doubt that she loved him deeply and the author made it very clear. I don't think marrying him was part of the plan. This is evident in how heavily Miejue's curse weighed on her after the betrothal.

 

And by no means I'm trying to fully exonerate her. Ermei sect's performance at the Shaolin Temple conference was despicable and she's largely responsible.

 

 

Sure that may be the case but it shows (me at least) that she's not very bright because stealing the weapons seems to me to be the more difficult way out. She seems to have a history of making things far more difficult for herself than she should. Besides, she keeps telling everyone that WJ is different from the rest of the Ming sect, that he's nothing like the others and yet her actions on the boat prove that there is definitely a lack of trust. It's not that I have doubts that she loves WJ... whatever that means to her and how she's able to navigate all that with the knowledge that he's much more partial to ZM... I just don't really think she's motivated by that particular impulse.

It isn't that there are contradictions in her character. There aren't any as far as I can tell. But she's way in over her head in almost every area. She nice sort of girl and perhaps even a martial arts talent of sorts but she isn't a good successor for Er Mei because she doesn't have the strength of character to command. I didn't like MJ much but she had courage of her convictions and was able to keep things under control with a steely single-mindedness. ZR was absolutely putty in her hands.

 

I don't even think ZR turns "bad" in a simplistic sort of way. At her core she's weak which is why she always makes what I would consider counterintuitive choices. Hence the pun on the name I imagine. :P

 

@Don Yu

MJ was definitely a bully... no arguments from me. That's why it was easy for her to foist the weight of leadership on ZR.

But she's dead now... ZR just keeps making one bad decision after another even if some of it appears well-intentioned. She could have chosen not to do anything MJ asked her or kill or let ZM carry the can. She could have chosen to tell WJ the truth if she really loved him as much as she claims. After all she chose not to kill him. Her obedience to MJ was entirely selective. Even if I weren't a fan of ZM, it would still irk me that she stands around listening to people making false accusations about another and then resorts playing the victim.

 

It feels like she's driven more by fear than by love The good part though is that she's suffering for her sins via her conscience and WJ running off to ZM repeatedly. :P

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24 minutes ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

because she doesn't have the strength of character to command

This is perhaps the most precise evaluation of this character. Miejue picked her because of her talents in martial arts and her relationship with ZWJ but she was not a good leader -- at least, not prepared to be a leader yet. In the first edition of the novel that Jin Yong published as a series on Ming Pao from 1961 to 1962, Zhang Sanfeng reprimanded her in the end and accused her of taking Ermei in a wrong direction, and that Ermei would not gain the recognition it craved by using cheap tricks. In later editions, similar accusations were made by others during the Shaolin Temple conference.

 

This is what happens when you take a 19 year old girl who had done other people's bidding all her life, set her on a dangerous, difficult and covert mission, and make her responsible for a whole sect against a particularly perilous world.

 

ZZR is smart, has resolve and a backbone. Given time and training, she could perhaps become a potent leader of her sect. And maybe that was Miejue's original plan, who knows. But given the circumstances, she was woefully unready and her inexperience really showed. 

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48 minutes ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

At her core she's weak which is why she always makes what I would consider counterintuitive choices.

Agree with this character evaluation.

 

ZZR is certainly depicted as pure and kind maiden in the story, but she doesn't have what it takes to lead. I always see her as this demure and submissive lady. And this is a bad recipe for a leadership. ZWJ on the other hand, in my opinion, has what it takes for leadership. Even though right now we frustrated with him being so naive and wishy washy, we need to admit that he has this charisma that is able to inspire people. His naivety, I think, mainly caused by his unique upbringing. But give him a few years, I think he has potential to be wiser while still retaining his compassion (if he really want to rule). He has Yang Xiao by his side (who seems to be very adapt in this politic ploy) to help him anyway.

 

ZZR is too character-weak. She knows very well that her teacher last order was wrong, but she still following that order. It has always been like that, ever since in Guan Ming peak arc. Her fellow disciples do not respect her, only kind of accepting her because it was their teacher order and because ZZR is more powerful than them (later on). Ji Xiao Fu is stronger than ZZR, character wise. JXF has this strength and courage to do what her heart told her to do even though she needed to pay with her life.

 

This inherent weakness, coupled with a great pressure of expectation as Emei sect leader, made ZZR finally succumbed to short cut way. She could no longer thinking clearly. All she wanted to do is to finish her teacher wish as soon as possible and as easy as possible (person with weak character usually also equal with having no confidence in themselves, hence I doubt she will ever think about challenging ZM in martial duel). It is not that she inherently evil, but in the face of pressure she doesn't have what it takes to control herself to stay in right path.

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This will be long so I put them in spoilers. For those who grew tired of my spewing reasons why I cannot tolerate ZZR and Perhaps can never do,  you might want to skip this one :sweatingbullets:. Disclaimer: this is purely for the fictional character. No matter who the actress who play This role,  my view haven't changed. It might seem petty, but just my opinion folks. :)

 

Spoiler

I agree with what zsf said in the first edition, as mentioned by previous poster.

 

What she did might bring Emei to the top but not because of respect or justified admiration from the rest of the wulin,  but more because of fear, Even among her disciples.

 

This might not be applicable but in general,  a good leader quality should include  knowinv when he/she needs to listen to trusted advices when he/she started going ashtray. A truly good leader should provoke loyalty instead of fear among the members as well. Well,  theoretically at least

 

 

 

I am not saying other characters are flawless,  including ZM and I've mentioned in my previous posts as well. Unfortunately, in a wuxia fictions, casualties most of the time are inevitable, even at the hand of the heroes/heroines. ZM is ruthless,  and she is cunning.  Growing up as a princess who is familiar with the fight of her dynasty against the rebellions will unconsciously (or vice versa)  shaped her to strategize for the glory of her allegiance. But she has the backbone to own up to it, to face consequences of what she did. 

 

I am not sure I agree that it's justified for ZZR to blame and frame ZM because of her shifu death.  ZM locked them up at Wan An temple,  that's true, but WJ and Fanyao have planned to save them and the locked up members of good sects knew it. Being wary of the real intentions is understandable but after other members of the good sects can escape, surely one can deduce that the intention of WJ and fanyao is legit. However, Miejue death is, ultimately, MJ own choice for lack of a better world. She let her hatred blinded her toward the good intentions of WJ and his members. 

 

And the fact ZZR committed those crimes because two artifacts make her, in my opinion,  just like those before her who fought and killed just to get their hands on these supposedly powerful weapons. :mellow:

 

But What ultimately turn me off the character ZZR is that not only she did those crimes on people who are weaker (at that moment, at least)  and/or are unguarded and not ready to fight back/defend themselves. Then she continues on with her life,  putting on her good girl front,  pretending she is a victim while more than ready to lie to the man she claims she love. She felt guilty, sure. Yet, she still charging on Learning and using the secrets. If not because of the intervention at the wedding,  I am not even sure she intend to ever let WJ know all her past deeds and her hidden kungfu skills until it's all too late:mellow:

 

From the first time I watch, not only this version,  I always thought she's just like the character in olden days or even nowadays dramaa' female characters who will resort to anything to get what (or who) she wants, including threatening suicide (sigh... *eyeroll*). This is why for me personally, others might disagree, her feeling toward WJ is not so much about love but more of an obsession (as I mentioned before), or love that turn to be obsessive.

 

To feel jealous is fine,  it's normal. To complain and spoke up the jealousy is also okay. To want to achieve your heart desire is perfectly fine as well, even admirable. But to eliminate those who you feel threatening your chance to get what you want while outwardly acting like none of that is his/her doings, I might have to draw the line here:huh:. It's worse for me because at this point, WJ is not even hers yet,  if i remembered correctly.

(This tactic of putting on the innocent outward persona while hiding the fact of horrible deeds is a major nope for me. Not just ZZR,  but other characters as well)

 

Okay,  I stop here. Sorry for the long winded post, folks:sweatingbullets::sweatingbullets:

 

Regarding the song,  I searched with rhe name of the series title.  They have a whole playlist,  including the songs by Huxia and Zhou shen and other instrumental as well.  For the main song,  might want to try searching using the chinese characters or under Emil Chow/ wakin chau?

 

ETA: 

 

I've been rewatching the scenew where wudang heroes found out SQS killed their 7th brother. It's so heartbreaking and perhaps also a wake up call for WJ on how it feels so horrible to be wrongfully accused. When Yu lianzhou and WJ are trying to stop Song Yuanqiao from taking his own life, and the 2nd hero was asking his elder brother to hand him the sword.  I really like this scene. This version truly has the best sets of side characters as well. 

Peace all :blush:

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48 minutes ago, chipz03 said:

This will be long so I put them in spoilers. For those who grew tired of my spewing reasons why I cannot tolerate ZZR and Perhaps can never do,  you might want to skip this one :sweatingbullets:. Disclaimer: this is purely for the fictional character. No matter who the actress who play This role,  my view haven't changed. It might seem petty, but just my opinion folks. :)

 

  Hide contents

I agree with what zsf said in the first edition, as mentioned by previous poster.

 

What she did might bring Emei to the top but not because of respect or justified admiration from the rest of the wulin,  but more because of fear, Even among her disciples.

 

This might not be applicable but in general,  a good leader quality should include  knowinv when he/she needs to listen to trusted advices when he/she started going ashtray. A truly good leader should provoke loyalty instead of fear among the members as well. Well,  theoretically at least

 

 

 

I am not saying other characters are flawless,  including ZM and I've mentioned in my previous posts as well. Unfortunately, in a wuxia fictions, casualties most of the time are inevitable, even at the hand of the heroes/heroines. ZM is ruthless,  and she is cunning.  Growing up as a princess who is familiar with the fight of her dynasty against the rebellions will unconsciously (or vice versa)  shaped her to strategize for the glory of her allegiance. But she has the backbone to own up to it, to face consequences of what she did. 

 

I am not sure I agree that it's justified for ZZR to blame and frame ZM because of her shifu death.  ZM locked them up at Wan An temple,  that's true, but WJ and Fanyao have planned to save them and the locked up members of good sects knew it. Being wary of the real intentions is understandable but after other members of the good sects can escape, surely one can deduce that the intention of WJ and fanyao is legit. However, Miejue death is, ultimately, MJ own choice for lack of a better world. She let her hatred blinded her toward the good intentions of WJ and his members. 

 

And the fact ZZR committed those crimes because two artifacts make her, in my opinion,  just like those before her who fought and killed just to get their hands on these supposedly powerful weapons. :mellow:

 

But What ultimately turn me off the character ZZR is that not only she did those crimes on people who are weaker (at that moment, at least)  and/or are unguarded and not ready to fight back/defend themselves. Then she continues on with her life,  putting on her good girl front,  pretending she is a victim while more than ready to lie to the man she claims she love. She felt guilty, sure. Yet, she still charging on Learning and using the secrets. If not because of the intervention at the wedding,  I am not even sure she intend to ever let WJ know all her past deeds and her hidden kungfu skills until it's all too late:mellow:

 

From the first time I watch, not only this version,  I always thought she's just like the character in olden days or even nowadays dramaa' female characters who will resort to anything to get what (or who) she wants, including threatening suicide (sigh... *eyeroll*). This is why for me personally, others might disagree, her feeling toward WJ is not so much about love but more of an obsession (as I mentioned before), or love that turn to be obsessive.

 

To feel jealous is fine,  it's normal. To complain and spoke up the jealousy is also okay. To want to achieve your heart desire is perfectly fine as well, even admirable. But to eliminate those who you feel threatening your chance to get what you want while outwardly acting like none of that is his/her doings, I might have to draw the line here:huh:. It's worse for me because at this point, WJ is not even hers yet,  if i remembered correctly.

(This tactic of putting on the innocent outward persona while hiding the fact of horrible deeds is a major nope for me. Not just ZZR,  but other characters as well)

 

Okay,  I stop here. Sorry for the long winded post, folks:sweatingbullets::sweatingbullets:

 

Regarding the song,  I searched with rhe name of the series title.  They have a whole playlist,  including the songs by Huxia and Zhou shen and other instrumental as well.  For the main song,  might want to try searching using the chinese characters or under Emil Chow/ wakin chau?

 

ETA: 

 

I've been rewatching the scenew where wudang heroes found out SQS killed their 7th brother. It's so heartbreaking and perhaps also a wake up call for WJ on how it feels so horrible to be wrongfully accused. When Yu lianzhou and WJ are trying to stop Song Yuanqiao from taking his own life, and the 2nd hero was asking his elder brother to hand him the sword.  I really like this scene. This version truly has the best sets of side characters as well. 

Peace all :blush:

 

I just want to say thank you for your detailed analysis, it strike a chord with me. You nailed everything that i could not explain with my limited language capability. Love reading your analysis, as well as the others like Grace, 40something, etc

 

The acting of those side characters are impressive in the sense that they made me feel for them. The leads ZWJ, ZZR, ZM had all done a good job with their roles development too. Sorry that i sound like a broken record but i have to emphasise that This definitely has to be one of my favourite HSDS other than 1986 adaptation 

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3 hours ago, dydrawer said:

 

ZZR is smart, has resolve and a backbone. 

Does she though? Maybe it's just this version but I certainly haven't seen it. ;) 

As for resolve... well, she's certainly resolute about marrying WJ and making herself the victim post-Snake Island. As for the rest, I beg to differ.

 

I am intrigued though that she seems so certain that she will be able to maintain the deception long-term. Where is she getting this confidence from? Faith in WJ's naivete? The prejudice of the seven sects?

 

Perhaps it's not confidence but necessity and fear.

 

2 hours ago, xienrue said:

Agree with this character evaluation.

 

ZZR is certainly depicted as pure and kind maiden in the story, but she doesn't have what it takes to lead. I always see her as this demure and submissive lady. And this is a bad recipe for a leadership. ZWJ on the other hand, in my opinion, has what it takes for leadership. Even though right now we frustrated with him being so naive and wishy washy, we need to admit that he has this charisma that is able to inspire people. His naivety, I think, mainly caused by his unique upbringing. But give him a few years, I think he has potential to be wiser while still retaining his compassion (if he really want to rule). He has Yang Xiao by his side (who seems to be very adapt in this politic ploy) to help him anyway.

 

ZZR is too character-weak. She knows very well that her teacher last order was wrong, but she still following that order. It has always been like that, ever since in Guan Ming peak arc. Her fellow disciples do not respect her, only kind of accepting her because it was their teacher order and because ZZR is more powerful than them (later on). Ji Xiao Fu is stronger than ZZR, character wise. JXF has this strength and courage to do what her heart told her to do even though she needed to pay with her life.

 

This inherent weakness, coupled with a great pressure of expectation as Emei sect leader, made ZZR finally succumbed to short cut way. She could no longer thinking clearly. All she wanted to do is to finish her teacher wish as soon as possible and as easy as possible (person with weak character usually also equal with having no confidence in themselves, hence I doubt she will ever think about challenging ZM in martial duel). It is not that she inherently evil, but in the face of pressure she doesn't have what it takes to control herself to stay in right path.

 

I don't find WJ wishy washy at all. I just think he's torn between loyalties and he's a Confucian male putting paternal figures and country before personal passions. Marrying ZR isn't about love but about honouring his elders so there's nothing indecisive to me about that.

My view is that WJ does have the charisma of someone who has strong convictions and carries them through. He is impressive in that way. Plus he treats all people with respect. I imagine that's why ZM fell for him. It's why I like him. He does have leadership abilities insofar as he can bring disparate groups under a common banner of brotherhood because of his self-sacrificing nature. But to rule a nation would require I think, another kind of individual. As you rightly pointed out, he wasn't raised to be leader much less a ruler. He was raised to be an honourable person which is what is needed to bring together a sect in disarray with very little trust between the key players. But to rule well, a different kind of savvy is needed. ZM could rule alongside him but she's Mongolian so that's not going to go down well with most people. Leadership works differently on different levels. There's a time and a place for someone like WJ but not beyond the scope, I don't think, of uniting the Ming sect.

Anyway, his heart isn't in it. He has no ambition or stomach to fight for it.

 

I don't know what JY had in mind when he created ZR but no one's going to convince me especially after this version that ZR is leadership material. ;) Even if she obeyed her Teacher-Master's orders, it was done very half-heartedly, without much conviction. I don't dislike her for accidentally "killing" Zhu'er. I just don't think much of what she did afterwards that shows a distinct lack of character.

 

Nice comparison with JXF. :)

 

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For me i believe we all have to make choices in life no matter in what circumtances we are. Even ZWJ chose to not to get revenge for his parents suicide, like we all know he can do that. ZM should have defended her dynasty and family, the very dynasty that her ancestors put their life in line to glorify them but she must accept that Yuan emperor is incapable of running the country and her heart always lean towards ZWJ as she is admiring his benevolent and idealistic character. These traits are what had been missing in her life and she finds it amazing at the hotpot dinner  that a man has such value in him. Both chose the most not popular decision but yet stay true to their heart and values.

 

ZZR has choices yet she always prefer the safe and instant one. The ones that comfortable and always in majority. She plays really safe in life, she would not do anything that would tarnish her angelic image. We pity this character, we don't hate her at all l, we might encounter her situations but we had learn that we could take much better route.

 

Geez, in our forum i just learnt that emei sect consisted of bully and bystander,  from top elite to junior disciples i mean such a dangerous environment yet nobody realize it until 'DARK ZZR" born.

1. Guo Xiang has such a bright personality and background. Emei image is always correlated to her. 

2. All women and girls exclusively in emei. Other sects might think they just cook, sing, sew, wash and clean everyday other than practising martial art.

3. Mie jue reminds me to some ISIS, Ku Klux Klan, Taliban, NAZI leaders who think nobody worth living in this world other than people who share the same POV as them 

 

Wednesday need to come sooner. :bawling:. I'm dying to know how the wedding goes. 

I just read some funny opinion in the internet. They wondered why everytime ZWJ heal a young maiden he must kind of undress her but when he heal men for example his men and grandfather in GMD, his grandmaster and uncles in WD, etc he didn't undress them just energy transfer is enough.

 

Hahahah, i know you might say i must ask JY in his grave but just to fill our days until wednesday night comes.

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14 minutes ago, graceeedwardmom said:

For me i believe we all have to make choices in life no matter in what circumtances we are. Even ZWJ chose to not to get revenge for his parents suicide, like we all know he can do that. ZM should have defended her dynasty and family, the very dynasty that her ancestors put their life in line to glorify them but she must accept that Yuan emperor is incapable of running the country and her heart always lean towards ZWJ as she is admiring his benevolent and idealistic character. These traits are what had been missing in her life and she finds it amazing at the hotpot dinner  that a man has such value in him. Both chose the most not popular decision but yet stay true to their heart and values.

 

ZZR has choices yet she always prefer the safe and instant one. The ones that comfortable and always in majority. She plays really safe in life, she would not do anything that would tarnish her angelic image. We pity this character, we don't hate her at all l, we might encounter her situations but we had learn that we could take much better route.

 

Geez, in our forum i just learnt that emei sect consisted of bully and bystander,  from top elite to junior disciples i mean such a dangerous environment yet nobody realize it until 'DARK ZZR" born.

1. Guo Xiang has such a bright personality and background. Emei image is always correlated to her. 

2. All women and girls exclusively in emei. Other sects might think they just cook, sing, sew, wash and clean everyday other than practising martial art.

3. Mie jue reminds me to some ISIS, Ku Klux Klan, Taliban, NAZI leaders who think nobody worth living in this world other than people who share the same POV as them 

 

Wednesday need to come sooner. :bawling:. I'm dying to know how the wedding goes. 

I just read some funny opinion in the internet. They wondered why everytime ZWJ heal a young maiden he must kind of undress her but when he heal men for example his men and grandfather in GMD, his grandmaster and uncles in WD, etc he didn't undress them just energy transfer is enough.

 

Hahahah, i know you might say i must ask JY in his grave but just to fill our days until wednesday night comes.

I’m dying too to see how the wedding turn out. Must be a big wedding cause everyone is waiting without invitation!

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I accidentally see some kind members shared these work in progress videos in other forums 

 

Thought they are quite interesting, for you guys to tide over next few days till Wed


https://www.facebook.com/groups/Phim...1406815502586/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Phim...1193272190607/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Phim...1291018847499/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Phim...1329818843619/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Phim

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10 minutes ago, bluesky888 said:

I’m dying too to see how the wedding turn out. Must be a big wedding cause everyone is waiting without invitation!

Definitely based on the leak it's going to be awesome. Especially the overhead shot where everybody is chasing ZM the lone black dot out of wedding hall.  I think this version has a very solidly good production people and all the actors and actresses are surprisingly good, not just WJ-ZM-ZR even the side characters are also memorable.

Luckily the director cut down on the slow mo, that almost make me stop watching.

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