[Mainland Chinese Drama 2019] Heavenly Sword Dragon Slaying Saber 倚天屠龙记

[graceeedwardmom]

9 hours ago, kur4p1k4 said:

@insertusernamehere

Is that all non-canon in the book? Lol I actually like all those parts, especially when ZM pretty much figure out the reasons why ZWJ do not want to assassinate the emperor immediately. I also like that she berates and caution ZWJ towards his "brothers" that just because ZWJ believes in brotherhood, honor, etc, does not mean his "brothers" will feel the same way and most likely they will used his kindness and throw him away once his useless.

 

Yes, despite draggy ZM is awesome in friday eps. The way she talked back is showing who she really is, Born in royal lineage to rule. No wonder other women in this series can't beat her. Even outnumbered and without army/bodyguard she can still escape the mob execution. 

[40somethingahjumma]

5 hours ago, graceeedwardmom said:

 

4. ZZR lousy failed suicide attempt baffled ZWJ. If ZZR is like XZ know no martial arts then it will good but ZZR knows and still failed. It's clearly just to get attention, ZWJ knew and suspect ZZR and delay the wedding. Too bad grandpa sabotage everything.

5. No pity for ZZR this time. She kind of asked to be humiliated. You know the man is not ready and still go with it.

 

 

 

Hahaha... I've always suspected that ZR isn't terribly bright but yeah... this definitely took the cake!

She's got some cunning obviously but it's all 小聪明. Still she did enough damage. Aided and abetted of course by prejudice.

Maybe she should leave the plotting and scheming to the adults... although lately I've been left wondering where all the adults are. 

 

49 minutes ago, Don Yu said:

Which episode aired so far would you deem 'Perfect'?

 

Hard to say. There have been so many good ones. Guang Ming peak episodes come to mind. Burning pagoda while WJ and ZM chatted was interesting. I liked a couple from Snake Island.

 

Most of the time it's moments that stand out to me.

 

Quote

In 1986 version (apologized if I compared it again), after ZM left, ZWJ visits his parents' grave and met with ZSF. I really like the wisdom that ZSF gave to ZWJ in which he said (iirc) if ZWJ's heart was prioritized to help people and ruled with Ming sect, he ought to know that his people would never accept ZM. So, he had to let ZM go. But if what his heart wanted most was ZM, then for what reasons he still hung on his role as Ming sect leader. It would be good indeed if he could keep both, but as a human, one should have make a choice in life.

@cancergirl87 

I think WJ needs to work out in his head that he can still help the people without being a part of the Ming sect. I love his idea of being a wandering physician. But people around keep making him feel like a terrible human being unless he's spearheading Ming's great mission to overthrow the Mongolians. 

[Don Yu]

LOVE the music... anyway it's on youtube??

[insertusernamehere]

@dramagirlslove good point about the plot hole of YL getting out of the island. I can't recall how they explained it in the novel either. I think we have to just accept this lot hole 

 

One thing I like about Jin Yong's novels is that you almost never have a Mary Sue. Everyone is imperfect in some ways. I think we all recognize that WJ in essence is a very weak-willed man. He can't go against other people's wishes and lets others decide things for him. In real life situations that I've witnessed, a relationship with such a man is either doomed or rocky. 

 

ZM, awesome as she is, isn't without flaws either. She is arrogant, and she can be mean. But somehow in many ways, she complements WJ; it's a case where opposite attracts and then builds on each other. 

 

I really hope they air all 8 eps next week instead of waiting for another week!! The first week of airing they released 8 eps so it wouldn't be the first time if they decided to do so.

[LaurenPanna]

1 hour ago, Don Yu said:

LOVE the music... anyway it's on youtube??

 

Yes it's on YouTube 

 

@insert_username_here

Yes i totally agree that they should just air everything next week 

 

But on the other hand, i think i will feel very lost without HSDS 2019

[graceeedwardmom]

@insertusernamehere if you want Mary Sue, you have Yue Ling Shan from XAJH. Kind of irritating character because sometimes i wished she died sooner. 

 

@40somethingahjumma indeed ZZR is only can do 小聪明。 She and ZWJ are gifted student role model with no street smart like our ZM. She should have sliced her face instead off her throat in snake island, it'll be more convincing to blame ZM. 

 

My favorite line from ZM eps 45 preview 

“Great, wu dang treacherous pupils and emei poison richard simmons... So compatible....

Only one line, she just send ZZR rage wildly.

 

I think my favorite eps will be 46 when the truth comes out and put ZZR in misery. Hope the writer paired her with SQS like forever or casted her away as a nun to repent her wrongdoings. Please, please don't make ambiguous ending like interrupting ZWJ-ZM happy life. 

 

 

[chipz03]

Of all the people around WJ,  I feel the only one (or two)  who truly understand WJ are ZM and ZSF.  Despite differences at the beginning, ZM can understand and accept what WJ heart really wish he can do. They are both willing to give up their name,  their rank,  their privileges to leave a simpler life together (perfectly match the ending song by Hu xia: willing to let go of name and identify to give the other peace and stability).

 

ZSF did not blame WJ for becoming Ming leader,  even though he has had his reservation toward the sect. He didn't force WJ to be what a ZWJ should be,  but ZSF accepted WJ as he is. In the other versions (hope they also have it in this one),  i really like the advice ZSF gave WJ.  Instead of forcing WJ to choose the best case scenario for their world, he told WJ to choose what his heart truly want and pursue the one thing WJ loves the most.

 

Other characters expect WJ to be someone that fit what their expectations of a perfect ZWJ are, what they want him to be,  but not ZM and ZSF

 

[Don Yu]

I understand the extreme ZM bias on here mainly due to shipping, but has Jin Yong ever confessed that Zhou ZhiRou was that evil, and pretentious the WHOLE way though?

 

Cuz, looking at this series, this ZZR seems really nice BUT JUST conflicted and her love for ZWJ and also her promise to fulfill her Master wishes made her do just ONE terrible thing, and that's the things she did on that island.  She still doesn't seem that evil for now, but I bet she going to turn more evil after keeping getting rejected by ZWJ, and ZM interrupting the wedding and their happiness is that turning point for going deeper into evil fast!

I am not convinced she was evil the whole way, and even now she is entirely evil but the main thing is what does Jin Yong say?

[chipz03]

I don't know,  but that one terrible thing ZZR did is murdering someone, not just disrupting wedding or pushinh anyone's button, even though she got lucky that  the victim didn't end up dead. In my book that is messed up,  no matter who I ship. I generally cannot stand this type of character, ZZR or whatever his/her name is and in whatever drama. 

 

 

  In tthe novel,  i thought she was even worse,  i thought she even slash YL face?  I could be wrong though. This version make her kinder and looks more like a victim of circumstances.

No matter who I ship, I cannot bring myself to pity this character.  It does not justify murdering someone who's weak, and it's not even a fight or flight situation where it's her life or the victim's. If it's extreme self defense, it might be a different story.

 

Sorry if this sounds harsh, and my impressions could be wrong but my personal opinion here folks

 

ETA: i have say though that Sheren Tang and Bambi portrayal of ZZR are the best among the versions I watched.

 

Peace all

[LaurenPanna]

19 minutes ago, chipz03 said:

I don't know,  but that one terrible thing ZZR did is murdering someone, not just disrupting wedding or antagonizing anybody, even though she got lucky that  the victim didn't end up dead. In my book that is messed up,  no matter who I ship.

 

 

  In tthe novel,  i thought she was even worse,  i thought she even slash YL face?  This version make her kinder and looks more like a victim of circumstances. No matter who I ship, I cannot bring myself to pity this character.  It does not justify murdering someone who's weak, and it's not even a fight or flight situation where it's her life or the victim's. Sorry if this sounds harsh, my personal opinion here. 

 

Peace all

 

I totally agree with you 

 

In the novel, she was actually more cruel towards the murder of YL. 

[Don Yu]

Nice video!
 

 

1 hour ago, chipz03 said:

I don't know,  but that one terrible thing ZZR did is murdering someone, not just disrupting wedding or pushinh anyone's button, even though she got lucky that  the victim didn't end up dead. In my book that is messed up,  no matter who I ship. I generally cannot stand this type of character, ZZR or whatever his/her name is and in whatever drama. 

 

 

  In tthe novel,  i thought she was even worse,  i thought she even slash YL face?  I could be wrong though. This version make her kinder and looks more like a victim of circumstances.

No matter who I ship, I cannot bring myself to pity this character.  It does not justify murdering someone who's weak, and it's not even a fight or flight situation where it's her life or the victim's. If it's extreme self defense, it might be a different story.

 

Sorry if this sounds harsh, and my impressions could be wrong but my personal opinion here folks

 

ETA: i have say though that Sheren Tang and Bambi portrayal of ZZR are the best among the versions I watched.

 

Peace all

Well remember the Ermei Sect, and Wudan, ShaoLin ALL wants to kill everyone what they call are "Evil/Demon sects" but they aren't evil people, seem pretty decent!

Then you look at Ermei, Wudan they all seem to be pretty good people too. Except they want to kill the others they don't understand nor try to understand. ALL stubborn and pretentious, if you call it that.

 

So, what I am saying is... is ZZR is killing anyone WRONG? Of course it is wrong, but does that make her worse than any other seemingly good folks in Wudan, Ermei, Shaolin, etc?

 

... Both Yi Lin and Zhao Min are from the 'Evil/Demon sects' they judge anyway, but for ZZR she wronged them more due to jealousy of their affection for ZWJ.

[arcchidus]

1 hour ago, Don Yu said:

I understand the extreme ZM bias on here mainly due to shipping, but has Jin Yong ever confessed that Zhou ZhiRou was that evil, and pretentious the WHOLE way though?

 

Cuz, looking at this series, this ZZR seems really nice BUT JUST conflicted and her love for ZWJ and also her promise to fulfill her Master wishes made her do just ONE terrible thing, and that's the things she did on that island.  She still doesn't seem that evil for now, but I bet she going to turn more evil after keeping getting rejected by ZWJ, and ZM interrupting the wedding and their happiness is that turning point for going deeper into evil fast!

I am not convinced she was evil the whole way, and even now she is entirely evil but the main thing is what does Jin Yong say?

 

I don’t think ZR is ever evil the whole way. She was kind in early days and only started on the wrong path due to her master initially. She only becomes a true antagonist after the wedding scene.

 

She wasn’t faking it when she was taking care of WJ early on. Not in this version and not in any versions.

 

The author did say she and ZM both have true leadership quality and do not waver on actions to get what they want. I think the difference is perhaps how they go about it and how much they are willing to let go for love.

 

In the original ZWJ wavers even more in his love life. Much more so than in this version. But given the way they chose to portray his feelings here, ZZR definitely seem a little more petty. And given how much more suffering they decided to put ZM through in this version, the fandom are leaning way more heavily toward ZM this time. 

[theonlyone88]

Haven't posted in a while. This drama and novel have always been my favourite Jin Young novel because the characters and plot line have a degree of complexity not seen e.g. Legend or Return of Condor heroes which are more straightforward. Personally, I have read novel a few times many years ago and watched the 01, 02 and 03 versions.  Here are some of my personal thoughts.

 

Personally, I felt that 01 version overall in terms of plot and characters is still my favourite because changes to the plot from the novel were appropriate and added to the relationships without destroying the characters e.g execution scene and various saving ZM from prince scenes. Compared to the other versions, ZZR in the 01 version was the more tolerable and I thought that she losing her memory and leading a simple life with SGS at the end was quite good. The political parts at the ends injected tension without being overly dramatic. In terms of ZM, compared to 03 version which was a bit too playful and cheeky and thus did not have that princess stature and 09 version which had that stature but lack in the more feminine and playful aspects, I thought that the 01 version is the most well balanced while the 19 version is probably second.

 

In terms of the characters, I think that ZWJ had been one of the most misinterpreted and misunderstood character. Looking at his background growing in an island without any human interaction his first encounter is a bunch of adults forcing his parents to death. Then, he spent time in a cave, can he possibly know affairs of the heart. Thus, he had interest in the various girls he meet, XZ because she is kind, treats him well, ZZR because she fed him porridge as a kid, Yin Li because of her devotion to the young ZWJ and of course ZM intrigued him with her behaviour thus, he contemplated living with all of them in the novel because he has interest in them as a person and not because he loves every girl he sees like many think. His thoughts are probably very simple due to his previous way of living.  After Snake Island, going back as he cannot bear to kill ZM and then wander towards marriage and out of marriage, that is probably then he then start to realise his deeper feelings.

 

With this current version, I think the biggest problem with this adaptation despite its merits in the strong injection of nationalism into the drama making it a primary plot point rather than a tertiary one in the novel itself, this creates a lot of unnecessary drama and destroys same characters such as XX, ZZR and ZM, you can say even FY and YZ. For example, XX, having his teacher kill his wife and child and then killing bunch of people and living 10+ years as a recluse on an island, his idea of nation and race would be quite vague. Thus, in the novel, seeing what ZM did, he accepted her rather than knowing she is a Mongolian and start giving a bunch of attitude regardless of what she did. Similarly, for ZM, it made her too desperate in some parts especially at Snake Island. In the novel, the impression I got is that while the Ming Sect was against Yuan Dynasty, the upper management was pretty much hands off and most definitely would not form plots to kill the emperor or engage in political marriage.. The injection of this nationalism plot points thus added too much drama making it somewhat similarly to a Korean melodrama which is completely unnecessary.

 

In terms of character of ZZR, I have strong hopes for the 19 version as I personally liked the actress but the way the character is being portrayed made her even worse than the novel or other versions. If you looked at the novel prior to the wedding, she gives a very pure, kind and compassionate vibe as she keeps her emotions and things under wraps probably because of her own internal turmoil. However, due to the nationalism plots in this version and character plot holes, she becomes one that points a sword at ZM, tell tales about ZM's identity to XX, shows attitude to ZWJ,  squabbles with ZM, shakes and behaves in a domineering manner to Yin Li, stuff unimaginable in the novel. 

 

Overall, her characterisation in the novel in similarly to a korean drama second female lead, have a backstory to try to make them sympathetic to others, make wrong choices, claim a lot more prominently her love to the male lead but ultimately trust and love no one but themselves the most, thus the cherry picking and trying to have it both ways and blaming others.  If she truly trust and adhere to what Miejue ask her to do , then it should be just a honey trap operation without the need to kill YI and then flee to Emei to slowly learn the skill and dominate the world, perhaps killing WJ in snake island along the way. She did not do so instead choosing to be together with him. On the other hand, if she truly trust  and love him and know what he is like then, she should know that being as laid back and highly skilled as he is, he definitely would not steal the martial arts manual from her and never crossed her mind to discuss the matter to find a solution together.   

 

In terms of the aftermath of the Snake Island incident, a point commonly raised by ZZR fans is that ZWJ loves ZZR which makes him a jerk to ZM fans is that he did not say and do anything hostile to ZZR after learning that she is the culprit. However, my personal opinion is that love and hate are two sides of the same coin thus, ZWJ's behaviour to ZM post Snake Island. The opposite of love is indifference, by the time he found out the truth, some time has passed and he is more than happy to flipped a page of the issue and ZZR is now a old friend which he feels some guilt about but nevertheless an outsider compared to his now close relationship with ZM, thus the relative lack of response, and  subsequently, in the novel, Yin Li came alive again. 

 

In general, all the versions has their respective merits, although personally, in my own opinion, the 09 version was too robotic in its plot flow, the 03 version made ZWJ look really bad highlighting all his wishy washy and indecisive behaviour some of which misinterpreted, the 01 version also had issues like Lawrence Ng too old for ZWJ and the 6 sects invading Ming Sect probably not as well done while the current version is too melodramatic due to its nationalism plots. 

[kur4p1k4]

49 minutes ago, arcchidus said:

 

I don’t think ZR is ever evil the whole way. She was kind in early days and only started on the wrong path due to her master initially. She only becomes a true antagonist after the wedding scene.

 

She wasn’t faking it when she was taking care of WJ early on. Not in this version and not in any versions.

 

The author did say she and ZM both have true leadership quality and do not waver on actions to get what they want. I think the difference is perhaps how they go about it and how much they are willing to let go for love.

 

In the original ZWJ wavers even more in his love life. Much more so than in this version. But given the way they chose to portray his feelings here, ZZR definitely seem a little more petty. And given how much more suffering they decided to put ZM through in this version, the fandom are leaning way more heavily toward ZM this time. 

For me personally in this version the problem I have with ZR are the evil deeds that she did after killing and stealing of the swords. It's one thing to kill people and steal something but to not even acknowledge that you did it and keep trying to find reasons to not blame yourself, that you're just doing it for Er Mei's glory, you swore/forced by your Master's to do her last bidding, etc is just cowardly for a person that is supposed to be from a righteous sect and and adult.

Even after WJ confront her in the preview for ep.46, she still doesn't want to acknowledge her culpability in ACTUALLY DOING BY HER OWN WILL the stabbing (YL suddenly woke up!so I have to stab her) and stealing (she thinks she's just taking back lost property of Er Mei) and forcing WJ to pretty much kill and innocent person(ZM). So yeah no wonder WJ looked so broken seeing a person that he thought was good become something else. And also I feel like this version ZR has this weird thinking that she'll be good to WJ forever and take care of him and do everything for him will somehow wipe out all her bad deeds in the island is just weird.

 

And for this version at least I don't feel like ZR has any leadership quality, she might has the highest martial in Er Mei, but she definitely always shirk her own responsibility toward whatever deeds she deems "evil" towards the people she wants to impress. The fact that she "tried" to kill herself but the last word you say is not your confession just showed how cowardly she is. If ZR actually write her confession ZM might be more impressed.

 

Which is why she looks so bad compared to ZM, who always live by her words and her deeds, whether they are good or evil. ZM always acknowledge she was cruel and ruthless towards the 6 sects when she tried to force them to submit to the dynasty and if people hate her for it so be it. ZM will never say her dad force her or her subordinate is the one doing the killing because at the end of the day she is the one giving the order. So yeah, can't wait how she's going to apologise to 6 sects later in Shaolin.

 

[LaurenPanna]

[owlstar]

19 minutes ago, theonlyone88 said:

In terms of character of ZZR, I have strong hopes for the 19 version as I personally liked the actress but the way the character is being portrayed made her even worse than the novel or other versions. If you looked at the novel prior to the wedding, she gives a very pure, kind and compassionate vibe as she keeps her emotions and things under wraps probably because of her own internal turmoil. However, due to the nationalism plots in this version and character plot holes, she becomes one that points a sword at ZM, tell tales about ZM's identity to XX, shows attitude to ZWJ,  squabbles with ZM, shakes and behaves in a domineering manner to Yin Li, stuff unimaginable in the novel. 

 

I agree!  ZZR to me has always been gentle and kind at least outwardly up until the moment she turned at the wedding.  But this version of ZZR was barely hiding her claws even early on.  And she never seemed to care much for ZWJ at the beginning (of their adult relationship), if anything I felt like she displayed much more emotion toward her teacher.  Only after her teacher died, did ZZR start fawning over ZWJ, and it was only because she had to in order to get close to the saber/sword.  The lovey-dovey conversations during and after Snake Island seemed weirdly out of place coming from her mouth.  Maybe she truly fell in love on the island... but it seems equally feasible that this ZZR just wanted him because he was a good catch, being powerful and Ming leader and all.  ZZR the character to me is supposed to have real strong feelings for ZWJ, but this version of her seems like she could take him or leave him... and would gladly trade him for her teacher back in a heartbeat.  

[arniechow]

I agree with some of the previous posters that ZZR killing YL when YL was at her vulnerable state (badly injured), and then tried to cover her act and frame other is the thing that made me never really like the character.  Furthermore, she then proceed to blame everyone else for her deeds (i.e I do this because you force/made me to.. This kind of mentality).  I am also not a big fan of character that use emotional blackmail (some poster mention that she is like the antagonist in korean drama.. I totally agree haha.. ) 

 

Also,  i always feel that HSDS is one of the story where those labelled as good are not necessarily good (i.e killing those unable to defend themselves  just because they are associated with the "bad" side). Thats what draw me to the story in the first place. 

 

Aside from that:

 

I love SYQ reaction when he found that SQS is the one who killed his 7th brother.. I felt that the actor really nailed the emotions. I can feel his heartbreak,  anger,  dissapointment, shame,  and guilt. 

 

Spoiler

I got chill when I saw WBB acting when ZM is about to be executed.  He  gave a deranged vibe when he kept on muttering that he is ZM brother and he didn't want ZM to die,  while stabbing his subordinate. 

Anyway,  the soundtrack for HSDS 2019 are now available on Spotify too for those who use it 

[LaurenPanna]

19 minutes ago, arniechow said:

I agree with some of the previous posters that ZZR killing YL when YL was at her vulnerable state (badly injured), and then tried to cover her act and frame other is the thing that made me never really like the character.  Furthermore, she then proceed to blame everyone else for her deeds (i.e I do this because you force/made me to.. This kind of mentality).  I am also not a big fan of character that use emotional blackmail (some poster mention that she is like the antagonist in korean drama.. I totally agree haha.. ) 

 

Also,  i always feel that HSDS is one of the story where those labelled as good are not necessarily good (i.e killing those unable to defend themselves  just because they are associated with the "bad" side). Thats what draw me to the story in the first place. 

 

Aside from that:

 

I love SYQ reaction when he found that SQS is the one who killed his 7th brother.. I felt that the actor really nailed the emotions. I can feel his heartbreak,  anger,  dissapointment, shame,  and guilt. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I got chill when I saw WBB acting when ZM is about to be executed.  He  gave a deranged vibe when he kept on muttering that he is ZM brother and he didn't want ZM to die,  while stabbing his subordinate. 

Anyway,  the soundtrack for HSDS 2019 are now available on Spotify too for those who use it 

 

Same sentiments that the main theme of this novel is to tell us that :

 

If your focus is on doing good deeds and being kind, it doesn't matter even if you are from unorthodox sect. 

 

But if you came from reputable sect, yet you inflicted harm on others, has evil thought, then you are not considered a hero

[Sooyun Ahgase]

hix, I need some more trailers or previews of WJ and ZM to let the days go by faster! Wednesday is too long. 

[Don Yu]

 the soundtrack for HSDS 2019  on Spotify link?