[Mainland Chinese Drama 2019] Heavenly Sword Dragon Slaying Saber 倚天屠龙记

[kimmortal]

For fellow Vietnamese fans, in my head, this is how the series really ends .

 

Spoiler

After reuniting with Zhao Min and giving her the box and hairpin, they say goodbye. Cut as soon as Wuji says, "I'll come find you". Then cut to Wudang where Wuji speaks with Zhang Sanfeng. Just ignore the line where he says he's worried Zhao Min is still angry with him, haha. Then continue until the end. 

 

I know I sacrificed the almost-wedding, Yin Li's ending, and even that beautiful scene at night when Wuji and Zhao Min are cuddling together discussing politics. But that's extremely difficult to keep, unless you cut just before Wuji mentions his stupid idea about wanting to see her father. But even cutting there, you don't get to see Minmin depart, without seeing that coffin being pulled behind her. *sigh* Thus, this is what I settled with:

 

 

 

 

 

[2handsintertwined]

20 hours ago, kur4p1k4 said:

Glad you enjoyed it

 

There are two main weapon, which one are you talking about? The wider one is Dragon Sabre and the thinner one is called Heaven Sword.

The one that ppl of wulin covet is Dragon Sabre since there's a saying "The powerful and honorable weapon:Dragon Saber; It can slay the Dragon. Use it to command the world. Who dares to disobey orders?" It kind of implied whoever hold Dragon Sabre can rule the world, that's why everybody in jianghu wanted to own it. But there's an additional verse "If the Heaven Sword does not appear, what weapon can fight against the saber effectively?" ,this one implies that only Heaven Sword can equally fight against the Dragon Sabre, however Heaven Sword has been lost for quite some time also (I took all the verse from Wikipedia).

Where did you get the English sub btw? This should all be explained in episode 1, especially the saying about the Dragon Sabre and Heaven Sword.

What episodes you're at?

 

The Sabre/Sword themselves are not bad, they're actually an amazing weapon that can break any weapon that came into contact with them, who doesn't want weapon that cannot break However ppl are killing each other to gain control of it so in a sense once the rumour that Dragon Sabre's location is known all the ppl went into a frenzy to get it, which started the story.

 

Cheers!

I was talking about the Dragon Sword.(I meant the Dragon Sabre) Thank you for explaining everything

Edit: I missed all that information in Episode 1. I'm at Episode 7. I would tell you where I got them. But I don't think we're allowed to discuss subs here in this forum 

Edit: Dragon Sabre

Edit: I don't think I have the right subs. It doesn't tell me everything. And I can't see them very well. I will have to look somewhere else.

Edited June 7, 2019 by 2handsintertwined

[vicious219]

36 minutes ago, 2handsintertwined said:

I was talking about the Dragon Sword.(I meant the Dragon Sabre) Thank you for explaining everything

Edit: I missed all that information in Episode 1. I'm at Episode 7. I would tell you where I got them. But I don't think we're allowed to discuss subs here in this forum 

Edit: Dragon Sabre

Edit: I don't think I have the right subs. It doesn't tell me everything. And I can't see them very well. I will have to look somewhere else.

 

Here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuyfcUjDE--TshpquRKPFbLXr0mTBazWy

 

The secret of the two weapons is kept a mystery on purpose.  What kur4p1k4 said is correct though.  Basically, people fight over the two weapons because of a rumor/mantra but they don't really know their secret.  And if you're new to the story, that's pretty much all you get to know about the weapons until much later in the story.  Unfortunately, the director/writers assumed the viewers had already seen a version of HSDS before so they didn't really go into depth on the weapons' background in this adaptation.

[2handsintertwined]

12 hours ago, vicious219 said:

 

Here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuyfcUjDE--TshpquRKPFbLXr0mTBazWy

 

The secret of the two weapons is kept a mystery on purpose.  What kur4p1k4 said is correct though.  Basically, people fight over the two weapons because of a rumor/mantra but they don't really know their secret.  And if you're new to the story, that's pretty much all you get to know about the weapons until much later in the story.  Unfortunately, the director/writers assumed the viewers had already seen a version of HSDS before so they didn't really go into depth on the weapons' background in this adaptation.

Thank you for explaining and thank you for your help. I am sad that they didn't go into depth on the weapons' background.

[Angee86]

M back ro rewatch my fav eps of WJ & MM and those eps are 38, 43, 44, 45, 49, and 50.

Ming sects betrayal still hit hard on me. If i was WJ, i definitely would have gone with MM right away. But WJ is too nice and too righteous to leave. In my opinion, MM can accept WJ back because deep down she didnt blame WJ for her father's death but she definitely angry at WJ for keep on defending his ming sects and his reason to protect people more than her. I think She was only afraid that WJ will surely become blinded and pushed around by the cunning people around him to accept the throne and forgets about her. So when years later WJ came to find her in Mongol, she was just so surprised but relieved that WJ does have the same feeling as her and keep his words. That's the main reason as to why she can accept WJ back so fast, besides time also heal all wounds of course. 

 

Anyway, are there any updates on WJ - MM fanfic? I really misses our OTP so bad. 

[2handsintertwined]

So, I have finished this drama. I don't think it's an easy drama to understand. I still have a lot of questions.

 

My Thoughts:

 

Zhang Wujin did his best to be the hero of this drama. His parents committed suicide. He had a disease. He couldn't trust anyone. A lot of friends and lovers died. I really liked him. And I'm glad that I met him through this drama. He made this drama so much fun for my. And I think the actor is very handsome. All the other characters were nice. I think they really helped the story. I think I said this. I still don't understand the story. I really appreciated the fight scenes. I loved a lot of them! I know the Ming clan was the bad clan. But I didn't hate the leader  of the Ming clan. I didn't hate the Ming clan. I just wanted all the clans to join together. I don't like the way the drama ended. I think it makes us ask so many questions. I think it feels like the story is not finished. I was confused about the Persia thing. I would definitely watch this drama again. I will look for dramas that are like this.

I want to add something. I think this drama was about more than the Heaven Sword and the Dragon Sabre.

 

 

[Yitian_fan]

@Angee86, Deminni, LaurenPanna and I all have fanfics that are regularly updated linked to their AOOO (Archive Of Our Own) accounts (you can find it on their and my signatures). Chipz03 is just about to get an AOOO account and her/his stuff is also temporarily held just in posts to this site.  Graceeandedward has part of one that s/he posted here awhilst back.  

 

And if you can read chinese then you're really in luck, because there is literally hundreds of fanfics at Lofter that are ZM/ZWJ with a half dozen or dozen added every single day.  Plus if you happen to be into ZWJ/Yangxiao and Yangxiao/Xiaofu, you're in even more luck because I'll bet there's easily a thousand of those. (Lauren is the only person I know who writes both in English AND Chinese, plus s/he is a studen of Wushu, so extra amazing to read her stuff!)

 

Have fun!

 

 

 

 

[chipz03]

Hiya all!!

 

I am back after several days off. Well, back to real life now 

 

Welcome to new members and new fans of the series. Glad you enjoy the drama

 

Finally got my AO3 account up and running, and just finished transferring my fics to the account. Looking forward to explore more of this fanfiction communities (thank you all who had introduced me to AO3)!!

 

https://archiveofourown.org/users/ChooChooChooZ03/pseuds/ChooChooChooZ03

(link to my profile)

 

Currently editing my 3rd part of the dark Wuji fanfic, will post them as soon as possible (by tomorrow, I hope )

 

Will comment more later on, and back to be more active in the forum. 

 

Peace all

[Lov4drama]

12 hours ago, 2handsintertwined said:

So, I have finished this drama. I don't think it's an easy drama to understand. I still have a lot of questions.

 

My Thoughts:

 

Zhang Wujin did his best to be the hero of this drama. His parents committed suicide. He had a disease. He couldn't trust anyone. A lot of friends and lovers died. I really liked him. And I'm glad that I met him through this drama. He made this drama so much fun for my. And I think the actor is very handsome. All the other characters were nice. I think they really helped the story. I think I said this. I still don't understand the story. I really appreciated the fight scenes. I loved a lot of them! I know the Ming clan was the bad clan. But I didn't hate the leader  of the Ming clan. I didn't hate the Ming clan. I just wanted all the clans to join together. I don't like the way the drama ended. I think it makes us ask so many questions. I think it feels like the story is not finished. I was confused about the Persia thing. I would definitely watch this drama again. I will look for dramas that are like this.

I want to add something. I think this drama was about more than the Heaven Sword and the Dragon Sabre.

 

 

If you watched for 1st time, maybe it is difficult to understand. But most of us are JY trilogy fans ( i guess) so even though this version have many cut scenes or jump scenes, we overall still understand. I suggest you to watched 2nd time, so you can understand better

Yes. Even though the title is HSDS, its not about saber n sword, but Imho everything start with those weapons and it become sentral plot and/or connecting to that weapons. 

 

If you read books version, you probably will hate how it ended too. I read 1st and 3rd version and to be honest, i even hate ZWJ in all book version 

[PutriSing]

Guys, I was rewatching some episodes last night. I'm curious. In episode 38, when WJ and Min-Min reunited after the Snake Island fiasco and had their fight, WJ followed Min Min even when she told him not to. Where exactly were they going? Did I miss a scene? Was he intending to follow her to wherever? 

[Angee86]

6 hours ago, Yitian_fan said:

@Angee86, Deminni, LaurenPanna and I all have fanfics that are regularly updated linked to their AOOO (Archive Of Our Own) accounts (you can find it on their and my signatures). Chipz03 is just about to get an AOOO account and her/his stuff is also temporarily held just in posts to this site.  Graceeandedward has part of one that s/he posted here awhilst back.  

 

And if you can read chinese then you're really in luck, because there is literally hundreds of fanfics at Lofter that are ZM/ZWJ with a half dozen or dozen added every single day.  Plus if you happen to be into ZWJ/Yangxiao and Yangxiao/Xiaofu, you're in even more luck because I'll bet there's easily a thousand of those. (Lauren is the only person I know who writes both in English AND Chinese, plus s/he is a studen of Wushu, so extra amazing to read her stuff!)

 

Have fun!

 

 

 

 

Yup i have been following all your english works on AO3. Unfortunately i dont understand chinese at all, so i cant go to lofter even if i wanted to. Mostly on ao3 the fanfic for HSDS are also in chinese. Im seriously thinking of studying chinese so that i can read all the fanfics. Or im hoping more english hsds fanfics come to ao3. 

Big thanks to all of you who have created such an interesting story for us fans to read and imagine of WJ/MM pairing. Especially for the english writers, hopefully you all continue making it and i will surely be your loyal reader. 

[Mr Horse]

I actually wanted to see them make the ambiguous ending where ZWJ can’t choose between ZM or ZZR. I’ve seen far too many tv series of the Condor trilogies where the hero goes off with his one love into the sunset. Guo Jing only loved HR and YG was too much of a love sick puppy, he wanted to commit suicide cos he thought Little Dragon girl was dead. Come on, be brave, make it more interesting and portray a flawed hero for once! I also have always felt a bit sorry for ZZR. It’s a bit unrealistic of JY to make her suddenly become this evil b**ch even though she was kind and gentle all the years growing up before. I suppose one can only guess she turned like that firstly, cos she was bound by a huge sense of responsibility to make Emei pei great and obeying her master’s wish, which prompted her to feel like she must get her hands on the sword and sabre at all cost. And secondly, ZWJ ran off with ZM on her wedding day and that would be enough to p**s any bride off! Yeah, she did some pretty bad stuff which she does ask for forgiveness at the end. But don’t forget that ZM was a cunning evil b**ch at the beginning, her men crippling ZWJ’s uncles. Lastly, I also admit that I personally think that Zhu Xudan is hotter than Yukee Chen so it makes me root for her character more but that’s my opinion. 

[chipz03]

Wow,  that's quite a lot of starred words there. If you want to watch ambiguous ending, I would think 2009 would be closer to your taste. 

 

You said it yourself that it's unrealistic for ZR to just suddenly changed like that. I feel that If no seed to cultivate, no result can appear. I personally felt it's easier to act according to the high moral and etiquette when you are not faced with many things that didn't go as you wished.  But sometimes it's harder to repress one's true self or what one is capable of doing when faced with adversities.  I've said this before,  from my personal POV  what ZR had for WJ was not love but obsession. She's obsessed to have his love and the glory for Emei, and her obsessions that eventually pushed her to do all those crazy things in Snake Island. 

 

Feel free to disagree but that's my stance. 

 

You can like the actress and/or the characters, it's your prerogative. I think both actresses are pretty.  I like YC type of beauty more,  but that's my opinion. (while I think GYY who acted as ZR is prettier than ZM in 2003 version,  but ZM remain my favorite. Again, That's my opinion though). 

 

But let me ask you this:

Would you rather WJ enter a marriage built on lies?  Only realizing when it's already too late and no way out?  No matter how "hot" the person is,  you are ready to enter a lifetime commitment like this? 

 

Lies that deal with attempted murder of a cousin (zhiruo really should thank her lucky star that her plan to kill Yinli didn't get through) , attempt to hurt a godfather, all for the sakes of a sword and a sabre to "bring glory to the sect" that she belongs to? ZZR had the choice to commit those crimes or to refuse, especially after MJST died (like Ji xiaofu refused in front of MJ at the expense of her own life, but ZR opted to commit those crimes).

 

Not only that,  this fiancee had also slashed WJ cousin's face,  went on crazy rampage against the villagers who didn't even do anything to harm her, trying to kill Xie Xun (WJ godfather that he loved and respected) during the lion slaying event even after she obtained the secrets from the two weapons, and cowardly dump all the evil deeds she did on Snake island on another woman who didn't do any of the crimes. While continuing to play that victim card,  even threatened to hurt herself when she felt that she might lose him and he try to leave the relationship. She couldn't even find a peace of mind when she's with him.  She kept on fearing about ZM in his heart (guess conscience is hard to be lied to) . Would WJ be willing to enter this kind of marriage?  Would you be willing to enter this kind of marriage? 

 

At least that  person you called "evil b***h" is brave enough to own things she did,  instead of hiding behind lies upon lies to get what she wanted. She took him away from his wedding for her own goal,   but it was also for him. I believe in the novel it was mentioned that he felt relieved to escape the wedding. Unfortunately ZR was not willing to understand his predicament even when he begged for her understanding. The "kind and gentle" ZR for sure could understand, don't you think?  

 

 ZM was also ready to own up the deeds done by her subordinate years before she was born (at least on the 2019 tv series) . What ZM did at Wan An temple was wrong in the eyes of the 6 good sect and Ming sect, and she's not an angel but in the eyes of her side,  what she did was for the greater good of her dynasty. I am not condoning her crimes, but she did what she could for her side. She did bad deeds too,  but she was brave enough to own up her "crimes."

 

My response is harsh so peace all!!

 

 

[kur4p1k4]

6 hours ago, PutriSing said:

Guys, I was rewatching some episodes last night. I'm curious. In episode 38, when WJ and Min-Min reunited after the Snake Island fiasco and had their fight, WJ followed Min Min even when she told him not to. Where exactly were they going? Did I miss a scene? Was he intending to follow her to wherever? 

 

No, you did not miss a scene, it was exactly like that.

[dramagirlslove]

5 hours ago, Mr Horse said:

I actually wanted to see them make the ambiguous ending where ZWJ can’t choose between ZM or ZZR. I’ve seen far too many tv series of the Condor trilogies where the hero goes off with his one love into the sunset. Guo Jing only loved HR and YG was too much of a love sick puppy, he wanted to commit suicide cos he thought Little Dragon girl was dead. Come on, be brave, make it more interesting and portray a flawed hero for once! I also have always felt a bit sorry for ZZR. It’s a bit unrealistic of JY to make her suddenly become this evil b**ch even though she was kind and gentle all the years growing up before. I suppose one can only guess she turned like that firstly, cos she was bound by a huge sense of responsibility to make Emei pei great and obeying her master’s wish, which prompted her to feel like she must get her hands on the sword and sabre at all cost. And secondly, ZWJ ran off with ZM on her wedding day and that would be enough to p**s any bride off! Yeah, she did some pretty bad stuff which she does ask for forgiveness at the end. But don’t forget that ZM was a cunning evil b**ch at the beginning, her men crippling ZWJ’s uncles. Lastly, I also admit that I personally think that Zhu Xudan is hotter than Yukee Chen so it makes me root for her character more but that’s my opinion. 

I think u will like the 2009 version. ZZR came at the end to interrupt ZM and ZWJ. However I think most people dislike the 2009 ending. It's probably the worst version according to many people. This applies to any genre and film, no audience wants to see a half hearted man in love with 2 woman. The general audience wants to see dedication and complexity to a relationship, not just a love triangle for the sake of a love triangle. And rooting for a character b/c they're "hotter" is kinda shallow in my opinion, no offense lol. That means anyone will do for you simply because they're hotter, regardless of the actions of the character. 

[vicious219]

7 hours ago, PutriSing said:

Guys, I was rewatching some episodes last night. I'm curious. In episode 38, when WJ and Min-Min reunited after the Snake Island fiasco and had their fight, WJ followed Min Min even when she told him not to. Where exactly were they going? Did I miss a scene? Was he intending to follow her to wherever? 

 

They were going to look for his godfather and ZZR.

 

I was rewatching an episode last night and I thought it was pretty funny when Wuji returned to the hidden cave, he walked past both ZZR and ZM without acknowledging them.

 

 

[kimmortal]

3 hours ago, vicious219 said:

I was rewatching an episode last night and I thought it was pretty funny when Wuji returned to the hidden cave, he walked past both ZZR and ZM without acknowledging them.

 

 

 

Yeah, but once he was done greeting his Godfather, he immediately went to help Zhao Min walk to the rock to sit down. (My inner WJ-ZM shipper sees what she likes, haha).

[kimmortal]

8 hours ago, Mr Horse said:

I actually wanted to see them make the ambiguous ending where ZWJ can’t choose between ZM or ZZR. I’ve seen far too many tv series of the Condor trilogies where the hero goes off with his one love into the sunset. Guo Jing only loved HR and YG was too much of a love sick puppy, he wanted to commit suicide cos he thought Little Dragon girl was dead. Come on, be brave, make it more interesting and portray a flawed hero for once! I also have always felt a bit sorry for ZZR. It’s a bit unrealistic of JY to make her suddenly become this evil b**ch even though she was kind and gentle all the years growing up before. I suppose one can only guess she turned like that firstly, cos she was bound by a huge sense of responsibility to make Emei pei great and obeying her master’s wish, which prompted her to feel like she must get her hands on the sword and sabre at all cost. And secondly, ZWJ ran off with ZM on her wedding day and that would be enough to p**s any bride off! Yeah, she did some pretty bad stuff which she does ask for forgiveness at the end. But don’t forget that ZM was a cunning evil b**ch at the beginning, her men crippling ZWJ’s uncles. Lastly, I also admit that I personally think that Zhu Xudan is hotter than Yukee Chen so it makes me root for her character more but that’s my opinion. 

 

As others have said, the 2009 adaptation would be right up your alley.

 

In my opinion, both women did some terrible crimes but the HOW and the WHEN really matters in this case. Zhao Min did terrible crimes before meeting Zhang Wuji. I won't mention the crippling of 3rd uncle because she wasn't born yet. The crippling of 6th uncle and the capture of the 6 Major sects was in session long before she met Zhang Wuji face to face. She had planned it while the fights were going on at Guang Ming Peak and then executed it as soon as the people departed. I feel like right after meeting Zhang Wuji, she fell in love with him and then since then, all her planned actions were done half-heartedly. After messing around at Wudang, she left seeing as she couldn't defeat Zhang Wuji. Technically, two uncles wouldn't be poisoned if he didn't try to steal the antidote from her. She wanted him to ask her for it directly and her actions were to force him to do just that. Then everything at Wan An Temple was according to her previous plan, but at the final moment, she let those people go as respect to Zhang Wuji. Still, those crimes against 6 Major Sects are direct, straight-forward and she took responsibility for those actions. She made sure everyone knew she was the one who captured them. After talking with Wuji at the restaurant, she had not done anything bad again. Speaking to Zhang Wuji at the hotpot restaurant made her see that if she continued to behave cruelly she would never win his heart. That's the WHEN of her actions. Every bad thing she did happened before this moment.

Zhou Zhiruo was, indeed, a genuinely nice girl, but she could never stand up for herself and what she believed in to ever say "No" to her superior(s). That was the start of her downfall. She committed crimes after the death of her master, so we can say she let go of being "good" because she wanted revenge and she wanted to fulfill her master's last wishes. HOW did she commit those crimes? She was in the dark while all her friends were in the light. She didn't own up to her actions and she pretended to be the innocent victim after pushing the blame onto someone else (someone she wanted revenge on). She lied repeatedly to Wuji and manipulated his emotions to force him to commit to her and marry her. Then her fiance was stolen from her on her wedding day. Fine. She's angry. But those evil acts continued; they didn't stop. What's her excuse? Wuji had many terrible things done to him but he doesn't turn evil. People are a product of their choices, not their circumstance. Zhao Min CHOSE to become a better person so she could be good enough for the man she fell in love with. Zhou Zhiruo CHOSE to become bad and continued to use her master's wishes and being scorned as excuses for her actions. Only at the end when Xie Xun died for her did she finally understand that she shouldn't become like him -- he kept using revenge as an excuse to commit evil deeds and she was doing the same. At the end, Zhiruo finally chose to become good again. But sometimes, it's too little too late. Wuji never loved her, first of all (it was obvious that he only ever loved Zhao Min), and even if he didn't choose Zhao Min, he wouldn't have chosen Zhiruo because she did too many things too late into the "story". In terms of narrative, that's just the way it works. The guy's heart has already moved on when she finally decided to "do the right thing" in the end. You don't win the guy with redemption this late into any story. You're just the character that people can feel sorry for and then they forgive you. But the person who "wins" the guy is the person who stood by him since the beginning, who changed her ways upon meeting him, who was misunderstood by almost everybody else in the story, who stood strong despite strong opposition, whose real obstacle was not some nonexistent love triangle but actually their opposing identities and what they stood for. This is what makes good storytelling and I am happy to see it explored in this drama.

[chipz03]

On 6/4/2019 at 6:18 PM, LaurenPanna said:

 

Cool i love it!!! 

I actually cried reading about her plight that you wrote. She has been through such a hard life

 

Coincidentally, in my grassland reunion in lofter, i also created a man named *le ba chi* who accompanied junzhu back to mongol and had been protecting her throughout the three years wait. She was pregnant with twins though. :p

 

But i like your A san who protected his owner. So loyal, with integrity.

 

if you guys don't mind reading chinese, and reading my plain storyline.

I shall shamelessly share my A03 link here.

https://archiveofourown.org/users/LaurenPanna/works

 

i can't write exciting stories like you guys, But am contended to do some reflection for the series through this short stories. Now i am at Chapter 15.

 

We have similar thoughts haha. *high five!!* Actually, I remembered you mentioned that you also wrote fanfic that ZM-WJ returned to Wudang? (I also saw other fanfics that have this idea. High five to you all as well ). When I was planning for my fanfic that explore WJ-MM life after their reunion in the grassland, I have also planned to incorporate their return to Wudang. 

 

Wudang heroes have always been my bias in all of the HSDS versions, and I am not really satisfied at how 2019 version did not really show any closure between ZM and WJ's Wudang families. I love the bond between WJ-Wudang heroes, and this version did very good job in exploring this, but for me, it lacks the development of bonds between ZM and the heroes. It's a pity, since I always felt WJ really respect and love his Wudang's family and vice versa. So, I could only turn to fanfic to satisfy my craving for ZM-Wudang family interactions haha.

 

Uurgh..I wish I could read longer Chinese writings. I really regrets my youthful folly of always trying to skip my mandarin lessons , and now I have to struggle and highly dependent on Google translate (which, most of time, distorted the true meaning of the sentences).

 

Keep writings for  all who enjoy them, as we did it for our fun and enjoyment too. 

 

Fighting all!! 

 

P.S. I just posted the next chapter of my dark Wuji story. Not that good but hope you can enjoy 

[chipz03]

6 hours ago, kimmortal said:

 

As others have said, the 2009 adaptation would be right up your alley.

 

In my opinion, both women did some terrible crimes but the HOW and the WHEN really matters in this case. Zhao Min did terrible crimes before meeting Zhang Wuji. I won't mention the crippling of 3rd uncle because she wasn't born yet. The crippling of 6th uncle and the capture of the 6 Major sects was in session long before she met Zhang Wuji face to face. She had planned it while the fights were going on at Guang Ming Peak and then executed it as soon as the people departed. I feel like right after meeting Zhang Wuji, she fell in love with him and then since then, all her planned actions were done half-heartedly. After messing around at Wudang, she left seeing as she couldn't defeat Zhang Wuji. Technically, two uncles wouldn't be poisoned if he didn't try to steal the antidote from her. She wanted him to ask her for it directly and her actions were to force him to do just that. Then everything at Wan An Temple was according to her previous plan, but at the final moment, she let those people go as respect to Zhang Wuji. Still, those crimes against 6 Major Sects are direct, straight-forward and she took responsibility for those actions. She made sure everyone knew she was the one who captured them. After talking with Wuji at the restaurant, she had not done anything bad again. Speaking to Zhang Wuji at the hotpot restaurant made her see that if she continued to behave cruelly she would never win his heart. That's the WHEN of her actions. Every bad thing she did happened before this moment.

Zhou Zhiruo was, indeed, a genuinely nice girl, but she could never stand up for herself and what she believed in to ever say "No" to her superior(s). That was the start of her downfall. She committed crimes after the death of her master, so we can say she let go of being "good" because she wanted revenge and she wanted to fulfill her master's last wishes. HOW did she commit those crimes? She was in the dark while all her friends were in the light. She didn't own up to her actions and she pretended to be the innocent victim after pushing the blame onto someone else (someone she wanted revenge on). She lied repeatedly to Wuji and manipulated his emotions to force him to commit to her and marry her. Then her fiance was stolen from her on her wedding day. Fine. She's angry. But those evil acts continued; they didn't stop. What's her excuse? Wuji had many terrible things done to him but he doesn't turn evil. People are a product of their choices, not their circumstance. Zhao Min CHOSE to become a better person so she could be good enough for the man she fell in love with. Zhou Zhiruo CHOSE to become bad and continued to use her master's wishes and being scorned as excuses for her actions. Only at the end when Xie Xun died for her did she finally understand that she shouldn't become like him -- he kept using revenge as an excuse to commit evil deeds and she was doing the same. At the end, Zhiruo finally chose to become good again. But sometimes, it's too little too late. Wuji never loved her, first of all (it was obvious that he only ever loved Zhao Min), and even if he didn't choose Zhao Min, he wouldn't have chosen Zhiruo because she did too many things too late into the "story". In terms of narrative, that's just the way it works. The guy's heart has already moved on when she finally decided to "do the right thing" in the end. You don't win the guy with redemption this late into any story. You're just the character that people can feel sorry for and then they forgive you. But the person who "wins" the guy is the person who stood by him since the beginning, who changed her ways upon meeting him, who was misunderstood by almost everybody else in the story, who stood strong despite strong opposition, whose real obstacle was not some nonexistent love triangle but actually their opposing identities and what they stood for. This is what makes good storytelling and I am happy to see it explored in this drama.

 Very well said. .

 

The love and bond that is strong enough to withstand all the obstacles, like those endured by ZM-WJ is the one that should be treasured and protected. As much as possible, both sides should be willing to sacrifice some and gain some (meet midway type of thing),  should be able to be themselves (including being angry to each other, bicker with each other, voicing their disagreement, their wants and their hesitations), and should be able to be honest with each other.

 

Looks/physical attractiveness are temporary, but true bonds last.

 

peace all