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[Drama 2018] Miss Hammurabi, 미스 함무라비

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@bebebisous33

Do not worry, i like that you question the role of emotion in OR’s character and how it influences her judgment. In fact, i like this kind of open debate. I agree with you that OR is a product of her environment, in which that she is bias toward the poor.In fact, most of us have our own paradigms, and it s hard for us to look outside of the box.

I live in the States, and i can say that politicians here use the middle class as political tool all the time. However, like it or not, the middle class has more political capital than the poor.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you regarding the custody case in ep 8. Yes, parent’s expectation could kill children’s happiness. However, following whatever children’s wishes could damage their future.  Ep 8 shows two different extremes of parenting. The first case, it shows that parents’ expectation without consider their son’s feeling and opinion can make the son’s life unbreathable. The second case, from Judge Han’s ruling, it is assumed that the children’s current happiness are more important. Is it the right answer?  Of course,it it good or important that a parent would know and allow children to see BTS and Park Bo Gum. However, knowing it is enough to secure the children’s well-being in the long run. The father in this case does not know what his children want because he has not spent time with his children. However, he will have more time with them in the future, and Judge Han may not put much thought in that direction. Moreover, his ruling is based heavily on emotions (yes, i think he is too emotional here, and is not much different than OR) and bias, i.e: It’s an universal and unwritten agreement that motherhood is more important to a child’s wellbeing.

 

@ohani

I’m happy to accept your hug.

 

Since you said that the novel is like a philosophical treatise, is it possible that Judge Moon may borrow Plato’s style?

What i mean is that Judge Moon mirrors OR’s character to Socrates, who can been seen as a mythical character in Plato’s dialogues. Like OR, Socrates is deliberately irritating, funny and rude; he asks many important questions but his answers can be controversial.  Most of what we know about Socrates are from the Plato. This is the same with OR, that we know her from IBR, from her dialogues and interactions with BR and other characters.

Since drama is different than novel, Judge Moon may develop OR’s background but at the same time, he holds back to to fully expand her character as he wants to keep the essence of the original OR in the novel.

 

Unlike others, i do not want/need OR be a likeable character, as long as her character keeps challenging questionable norms in society and legal system. Go Ara must know so well that PCOR is a controversial character when she accepted the script and she did not care. Thus, i hope the drama would not forgo this opportunity and dial down her character.

 

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2 hours ago, star2010 said:

 

 

@ohani

I’m happy to accept your hug.

 

Since you said that the novel is like a philosophical treatise, is it possible that Judge Moon may borrow Plato’s style?

What i mean is that Judge Moon mirrors OR’s character to Socrates, who can been seen as a mythical character in Plato’s dialogues. Like OR, Socrates is deliberately irritating, funny and rude; he asks many important questions but his answers can be controversial.  Most of what we know about Socrates are from the Plato. This is the same with OR, that we know her from IBR, from her dialogues and interactions with BR and other characters.

Since drama is different than novel, Judge Moon may develop OR’s background but at the same time, he holds back to to fully expand her character as he wants to keep the essence of the original OR in the novel.

 

Unlike others, i do not want/need OR be a likeable character, as long as her character keeps challenging questionable norms in society and legal system. Go Ara must know so well that PCOR is a controversial character when she accepted the script and she did not care. Thus, i hope the drama would not forgo this opportunity and dial down her character.

 

OMG!!! Can I give you another BIG hug :wub::wub:? I hold back for a long time by bringing up Judge Moon's Socratic/ Platonic dialectics because it might turn people off. I am truly thrilled at and grateful for the intellectual dialogues we have here in this forum. 

 

You and me are probably ones of the very few who do NOT want OR to be a likable character. Many beanies at dramabeans complain, understandably, about OR,  but OR in the latest episode piques my passion and interest again in this drama. I was lukewarm about episode 6-8 because they dialed down her character. I am just too happy that OR is still her usual self, an unpopular iconoclast who is willing to take risk in pointing out the problems in established social/cultural mores. 

 

Yes. Go Ara must have known the risk this role entails considering the Korean society remains by and large conservative, especially with regard to gender role. However, things start to shake up bit by bit after Moon Jae-in's took office.  Precisely because of the risks it involves, this role will help Go Ara shed some previous stereotypes and images about her. Go Ara, who used to be a pretty doll, as demanded by SM, is now finally able to be her own person choosing an unconventional project. Her appearance on Knowing Brothers charmed Korean audience (her name was trending for a long time on naver/nate after the broadcast). People were pleasantly surprised to find out how cordial, how "real" she is. Jung Woo-sung is famous for his outspoken and straightforward personality, and probably that's why he and Lee JungJae recruited her.   Also, although this role appears insufferable and disagreeable outside Korea, Park Cha Oh Reum in fact embodies the ideal for SK audience, feminists and intellectuals specifically, who are anxious for reform under Moon Jae-in liberal governance. My Korean colleagues, who are academics teaching in an  American institution, all started watching MH after the airing of episode 3--and they don't normally watch Korean dramas.  They all appreciate the drama to a certain extent (many complain about the the romance part being contrived and unnecessary though) In any case, the drama speaks to a different demographic and thus OR is not unanimously perceived as negative or problematic. She might be the main appeal of the drama for many since she speaks on behalf of  Moon Yeon Seok, the scriptwriter.

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I enjoy watching OR do what is quite a difficult thing to do in any society which is to break away from the norm. We see a consistent example of this when the hoobaes go for pasta at the restaraunt with their sunbaes and OR makes a bold move to order the food she wants rather than the unanimous order everyone gets based off their superior. This would probably be more of a power imbalance in workplace based on job position and age, but we also saw this a few episodes back with gender when her choice of clothing was picked on by the judge. I enjoy her refreshing and bold moves that takes a lot of guts to do especially in a culture that is collectivistic over individualistic. That said, I do understand that with that may be ‘downfalls’ of her bias and narrow mindedness towards issues she is passionate about like when she didn’t hear the opposite of the elder judge that overworked his subordinate. I enjoy seeing her make mistakes. If she was perfect then this wouldn’t be realistic nor the fact that as humans we are flawed. But what’s interesting is she is self aware enough that when she realizes she makes. Mistake, she is open to learn and grow from it. As long as you have that attitude, then I think it’s worth making those mistakes that have a lesson you could never learn unless experiencing it through that. I feel like at the end of the episode even I learn something new. Morals, ethics, judgement, and overall making the ‘right’ decision are something very difficult to truly know all the time because situations, circumstances, and just time (advancement of tech, society, and shifts in cultural values) can all effect this. Taking that into account, I do think one of the best ways to address the dilemma is just discussing and having conversations like now or else we really can never improve.

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Annyeong guys :D I was busy with my exams last week and now I have to catch up with dramas I am watching ^_^ I also have to read your  posts :D Do we have two episodes of Miss Hammurabi this week? :)

 

 

Preview episode 11 ;)

 

 

 

 

 

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@chatterbox22

Hi chingu!

Good luck to your exam results!  :D

 

Yes, if nothing interrupts, it should be 2 episodes this week....and from the few clips that I've seen of ep 10...my heart was beating so fast...lol. Looks tense! 

 

Thanks for ep 11 preview. I think I'm looking forward more to that cos I want to enjoy the drama, not feel all tensed up...lol. It's interesting though. I hope everything will turn out fine for our 3 beloved judges. Need Eng sub to understand what's going on...:)

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@jl08 Thank you chingu :D Today's episode looks very emotional. I was wondering... The woman whom O Reum told about her mom today was that female judge from previous episodes? On the lighter note I see progress in O Reum and Ba Reun's relationship. I think that she is more and more into him :) 

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1 hour ago, chatterbox22 said:

I was wondering... The woman whom O Reum told about her mom today was that female judge from previous episodes? On the lighter note I see progress in O Reum and Ba Reun's relationship. I think that she is more and more into him :) 

 

I find her familiar too. When Ba Reun grabbed that guy's shirt I was thinking "Oh no! Imagine the judges making the headlines!"...lol.

 

Oh, I just saw the part where they were by the river and the 'heart' lit up and the waterfall came on...the ambience and aura for this pair of judges is so beautiful. :D

 

From ep 11 preview, it seems that O Reum is seeing Ba Reun in a different light? Hope they'll have a better relationship and greater teamwork from ep 11 onwards.

 

edited: Yes, it's the previous female judge that O Reum was talking to about her family. :)

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1 hour ago, jl08 said:

Oh, I just saw the part where they were by the river and the 'heart' lit up and the waterfall came on..

 

Haha I cant wait for the translation for that scene. From clips of Ep 10, BR is really stepping forward to protect OR, this really just made my day. Happy Monday/Tuesday everyone! :wub:

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@gclala

 

Happy Tuesday now! Yes, though I don't understand the raw ep, I can see that Im Ba Reun is doing his best to protect O Reum. I'm angry that the other judges treat O Reum badly. She may be headstrong but she's doing the right thing.

 

Oh boy, the part where O Reum was telling the female judge about her family, Go Ara's acting is daebak!! Of course L's acting is awesome too (like his hospital scene) but in this particular scene, I cried buckets with O Reum... truly got sucked into her sad background that shaped her into what she is today - full of hurt inside.  

But the ending at the river makes up for it... something light to call it a night!   :)

 

@0ly40

Thanks for the OST!  :)

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On 6/23/2018 at 4:37 PM, ohani said:

. She might be the main appeal of the drama for many since she speaks on behalf of  Moon Yeon Seok, the scriptwriter.

 

Definitely the main appeal for me in this drama...after the mini skirt and burkas she had me LOL  :tounge_xd: ...i like this woman and will willingly fight for her and with her .

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This episode definitively killed the second lead as a contender for COR. When BR told him it's wrong to make her a locked doll and it's  clearly what he want to do (YJ can't even contradict him).

 

22 minutes ago, jadore1 said:
On 6/23/2018 at 10:37 PM, ohani said:

. She might be the main appeal of the drama for many since she speaks on behalf of  Moon Yeon Seok, the scriptwriter.

 

Definitely the main appeal for me in this drama...after the mini skirt and burkas she had me LOL  :tounge_xd: ...i like this woman and will willingly fight for her and with her .

I personally prefer the three guys in this drama :

- You got SS who scream at everybody about all things that are unfair but is the sweetest thing at home with his wife and daughters.

- BW who is brutally honest and truly do his best. He honestly like DY but she is too mysterious right now for him.

- BR him truly understand how the world work and I like his cynicism. He always think about COR and want to help her (after she "rejected" him, he was perfect I think and did his best to make her feel alright). I like that he accept other people point of view too and can change his own.

 

I like DY but the perfect "secretary" (I know she is not a secretary) type has already be done and redone and it's not new for me.

I like COR too but too mutch of a kid for me. Unlike BR who she only think about one side of things and sound more like a lawyer at some time and a prosecutor at other.

I am even a little disapointed in her that she never asked anything about BR private life. I think she must assume it's great and all but don't know anything about it.

 

P.S. : I don't think anybody talk about it but didn't COR said in episode 9 that she was disapointed that the guy (she rejected) was indiferent ? Isn't it some kind of confession ?

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After watching the today’s episode, I had a sudden thought if that chaebol oppa OR is friends with. What if he’s purposely trying to make it difficult for OR in her job so that she quits being a judge and goes to him? Also I cried so much during the end. This is only show that makes me tear up, even come and hug me doesn’t make me cry like this show does!!

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Hello! I'm new here and I've been really liking the discussion going on in the previous few pages so I thought I should probably join in. 

 

This recent episode was so good! (I'm kind of sad that the rating dropped but its understandable with the ongoing world cup). I think this week was the peek of Oh Reum's frustration, all the past episodes in which she fought for change, esp the one with the sexual assault, which we know was something really close to her heart, became undone and how can she not just wanna lose it and give up and take petty revenge. Ugh I was so frustrated too as a viewer because this isn't too far fetched from the reality of things either, perpetrators of sexual assault walk away unscathed and instead those who speak up are scrutinized to the extreme, people bringing up any past unrelated incidences for them to lose credibility. And oh my with Sung Gong Choon being promoted despite his previous misconduct, I'm anticipating a bigger mess in upcoming episodes. 

 

I think the show did a great job of reeling in the frustration and showing how Oh Reum's reasoning for why she is the way she is. I understand that judges should be as impartial but the whole point of the show is that there is pain behind that mask of neutrality, judges are people and they initially struggle a lot to get there. And that judges shouldn't completely lack emotion either like how Judge Im is either, there should be some compassion for the people involved. Its really a story of making mistakes, learning from them and growing together. 

 

Also loved the scene with Young Joon and Im Bareun. Bareun loves Oh Reum and he's not afraid to call her out on it when she screws up, and vice versa as well, that's why they have such good team work. Young Joon wants to keep encouraging her and give her power, which would definitely turn badly and make her as bad as the people she condemns. I think the writer is also taking slight digs at chabeol characters rampant in dramaland right now, they're an audience favorite like Young Joon mentioned, but they also turn the spunky female lead into a shell of herself (or an encased doll) by the end of the drama by coming in and basically throwing money around. Bareun really doesn't have that,  and rather than swooping in to save her, he's by her side giving her encouragement when she's going through something rough but also reeling her back if she's endangering herself too much. He gives her room to grow and learn while still letting her be as she is, just a more mature version. 

 

As for the romance in the series. Poor Bowang! All that for nothing but I completely understand Doyeon too. I think she initially agreed to go out with him bc in his confession he said he didn't care what she did or who she dated, he just liked her and wanted to ask her out, and she liked that he liked her for who she was and not her background or other job. So I think she felt hurt when he still had these misconceptions about her later on. I hope that made sense. But I really hope she clears it up too since he's been asking for a while now. Oooh also I don't know if anyone caught this but there was a big hint dropped as to what she did at night lol. As for our other couple, so many bad things happened this episode that I was really happy when they were both cursing and laughing at the end of it. They're both adorable and I can't wait for the karaoke session tomorrow with Bowang (I really missed the trio of friends!). 

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Chingus, please explain to me the talk between BR and his father. I can't understand what's its metaphor. The meaning of life... Thanks in advance.

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1 hour ago, oceluna0801 said:

Chingus, please explain to me the talk between BR and his father. I can't understand what's its metaphor. The meaning of life... Thanks in advance.

"Wait" means in my opinion that you just accept what comes to you in life; you should live without taking rushed actions or having a huge goal in life. Life is given to you and you should just go with the flow. When IBR told her to wait, he means that she should wait until she realizes the impact she has as a judge, not question her value as a judge. She is definitely too impatient, she wants to see huge changes. However, like IBR said, she sees new aspects as she questions customs and norms. Yet she is rushing things and his seniority and maturity can help her to find answers and solution.

 

@MahnoorM I agree with you. If OR received the power from YJ, she would definitely cause some serious damage. She would even go to the length of bankrupting a company that helped an sexual harasser, not realizing that she would also hurt innocent people. I really liked that IBR pointed out her wrong thinking. She is a judge and as such, she needs to be impartial.  

 

It was another great episode, especially the ending. 

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Im Ba Reun : "Don't you get sick of people sometimes? Don't you get sick of the world?"

                       "How do you never change?"

Wise man    : "Life is like the wind blowing through the branches".

Young man : "Is that really the meaning of life?"

Wise man   : "Wait".......

                       "Is it not so?"

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

That's such an interesting parable shared by Ba Reun's dad. The wise man has been holed up in the high mountain doing many years of meditation to find the meaning of life. He has a fixed meaning of life until someone questioned it and he began to have doubts on his own thinking.

 

This is so apt - "many years" refer to the senior judges fixed in their way of thinking after working for so long.

"High mountain" refers to these judges holed up in their ivory towers and lost touch with the ground. They can't see the change. They are in their own comfort zone and happy with it.

 

Until someone comes along and question their thinking and ways of doing things. Some young rookie judge who wants to see the world change for the better with "is it so?". She wants to give a fresh lease of life to the victims. These senior judges are shakened out of their comfort zone, like the wise man did. They are forced to rethink their archaic ways of doing things and they don't like it. Hence, "is it not so" has rocked their boat.

 

Park Cha O Reum The Wounded Healer

We know why O Reum is such an emotional person. She is full of hurt inside. I love the conversation between O Reum and the female judge. It's the highlight for me -it definitely helps Ba Reun to understand with greater insight, where O Reum is coming from because I could see his look of enlightenment when the female judge said  to O Reum: 

 

"Because you have many wounds and scars.....you can understand and sympathize others' pain better than anyone else can".

O Reum had opened  her heart to them.

 

There are many phrases that I love from this episode.

Im Ba Reun's cool phrase "I may not change the world. I want to stand up for myself at least".

Though this might indicate his individualistic survival instinct which he values but he's right that they should not stoop low like the perpetrators.

 

I like his frank words to O Reum at the end. It's not easy to admit it because Ba Reun is an elite judge.

"I hope to help you make mistakes. I'm good at finding answers that are available."

"However, you look for new answers. In the process, you could make mistakes. What you do may be necessary".

 

Doesn't Park Cha O Reum remind you of the young man who questioned the wise man in the parable?  And Im Ba Reun, together with the senior judges, are having to move out of their comfort zone. Ba Reun has the advantage of O Reum helping him to see that change is necessary.

 

Not forgetting Judge Jung's "I am a jerk!"...lol.. and did you see that mischievous look that O Reum's 'aunt' gave over Ba Reun's head before she suggested that O Reum marry Yong Jun...  

 

I love this episode, especially how Ba Reun is always there for O Reum and the last scene was lovely yet comical:

In love: "They must be swearing love to each other. It makes me want to cry" 

In reality:  "You're worse than a piece of trash! How dare you, you nasty punks!"        :D

 

it's so sweet to see our judges being awkward when they realised they're supposed to kiss....  :wub:

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4 hours ago, jl08 said:

 

I like his frank words to O Reum at the end. It's not easy to admit it because Ba Reun is an elite judge.

"I hope to help you make mistakes. I'm good at finding answers that are available."

"However, you look for new answers. In the process, you could make mistakes. What you do may be necessary".

 

it's so sweet to see our judges being awkward when they realised they're supposed to kiss....  :wub:

 

Chingu , this was an excellent summary of this episode :star:...even though i shy away from angst drama ...this one just got me ...and having original bright thoughts is so rare and valuable in every age, but in this one even more so since we just copy and paste a lot of our life . 

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Episode 10 was really emotional just like I had thought. The script of Miss Hammurabi is truly remarkable. My eyes were full of tears during the scene when O Reum told the female jugde about her past. It was so good to see that she comforted her. Nowadays people have tendency to  look down on those who admit that they have weaknesses and doubts. When we fail it doesn't mean that we are losers. We may be when we give up. However if we learn something new from our mistakes  and keep on going it's actually our victory. 

 

Preview episode 12 ;) 

 

 

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