[Official] ♔ WonSan Lovers || HanCheon ❤ SoHwa (Im Siwan • Im Yoona) ♔

[packmule3]

3 hours ago, deandraluv said:

 

I am with you.  When did Won tell San to go faraway from him?  Won said, he did tell her and it wasn't in one of the scenes, right?   (Are we going to be directed to the fan-fiction now?)

 

lol.

 

Bad girl!

 

On 9/30/2017 at 5:28 AM, deandraluv said:

 

-Bi Yeon asked her why San lost track of the man she was chasing and San answered,"It was because the man.  Someone who loves to give things"  I think this is what San meant when she talked about the New Year's pouch, Won who always gave even before she wished for.  That is what Won meant to her.

 

Sorry for the long post.  I  am just  amazed and excited as I pick up the clues here and there from each episode.

 

Oh! I missed this scene!   When did San say this? Which episode? It really does connect everything to Won, right. It's hysterical that San had been talking of her Hancheonie on numerous occasions with BiYeon and yet fangirls still delude themselves that she's in love with Rin because of... because of... 

 

~~sigh. he rescues her~~

 

I’ll rehash what I said in the drama thread about BiYeon because I don’t want you going back in there. 

 

The maid was reliable only for gleaning information on San’s mysterious lover but she was totally UNRELIABLE when it came to her interpretation of San’s words. When San was being cryptic, the maid couldn’t follow her. They were just on two different wavelengths. San was riding the bunny express, while BiYeon was on snail trail. Plus, San kept her romance with Won secret. She never disclosed her close relationship with the Crown Prince. 

 

Take for instance, when San and the maid were talking about the Queen’s tea party invitation.

 

Maid: The night air still chilly. Why are you outside?
San: I am seeing if spring has arrived yet.
Maid: Please just come look at this. I’ve selected a few that look decent. What on earth should you you wear to the Queen’s tea party, I wonder? How is this one? You know, I don’t know if I should be happy or scared about all of this. How could she suddenly force you to try to win the Crown Prince’s heart and that otherwise, you’re dead? Agassi? 
San: Huh?
Maid: What are you thinking about?
San: Oh, you know…just breathing. 
Maid: Are you perhaps…thinking of that man? If you’re hesitant because of that man in your heart, don’t be like that. Just forget him and move on. 
San: What about you? Is your heart still beating for him?
Maid: Whose heart is still beating? 
San: The man who rescued you. You said that he was tall and well built.
Maid: Wow. Look at you changing the subject… You, Agassi, need to try with your life to win the CP’s favor! (quiet)
San: I guess I do need to…bet my life on it? (with that far-away look on her face.)
Maid: Why? You’re worried that if you win the CP’s heart, that man won’t liked it?
San: One of them will be happy. He’ll probably clap for me, saying I did great.
Maid: If you say, “one of them” are you saying there’s another man? 
San: The other one will be very sad. Not because of me, but because of the other man. Because they will be separated by a very long distance. 
Maid: What are you saying? 
San: Ultimately because of me. Won’t they both be unhappy? And they’ll soon come to dislike me. Soon…. Is this too hard? 
Maid: I have no idea what you’re saying and it’s not like you’re speaking the Yuan language. 
San: You’re right. Knowing a man’s heart seems the hardest thing in the world. Teacher never taught me this one either. I miss Teacher Lee. Should we go see him?
Maid: Why are you bringing that up all of a sudden?
San: That sounds good. Let’s go. 
Maid: Agassi. Agassi.  

 

The maid totally didn’t understand what San was talking about.

 

The Crown Prince was the man in San's mind. She wasn’t at all affected when teasing BiYeon about her tall and well-built rescuer. She was NOT remembering her own encounter with her tall and well-built rescuer. There was no heart-fluttering moment for her when she talked of BY's mysterious crush.

 

Instead, she grew quiet when BiYeon started telling her to “try with your life to win the CP’s favor.”  San had that far-away look on her face. She became pensive when she began talking of actually betting her whole life (not to mention, her father’s fortune and her whole household’s future) on winning/not winning the role of Won’s Crown Princess. I'm sure she was tempted to go for it, but she knew that had she tried to win the CP's favor she would then cause Won’s sadness because he would lose his best friend. 

 

And to me, the sadness was more on Won's part. Rin was already prepared to leave Won. As a matter of fact, he WANTED to leave Won. Didn't he say so in his inner monologue while sparring with Won? Then, later on, he would express to Won, within San's hearing, that he wanted to go to Yuan as a non-service hostage to establish contacts. It was Won who protested being left behind and swore to do anything to keep Rin by his side.

 

The first man she was talking about with BiYeon was Rin. Rin would be pleased and would commend her for marrying the CP. She was right in her prediction, because the following morning, Rin met her to urge her to reveal her secret identity to Won so SHE would be chosen at the bride. He wanted her to marry Won. 

 

Meanwhile, the second man she spoke of was Won. Won would become sad, not because of her, but because Rin would have to be sent off to Yuan. 

 

To me, it's clear that San was contemplating sacrificing everything for Won, and Won’s happiness. She didn’t want Won to be without his Rin because she feared that, in the end, Won would resent her. After all, it was her broken engagement to Jeon that precipitated all the situation they were in and forced Rin to go to Yuan in lieu of Dan. 

 

However, this conversation between BiYeon and San was only ONE incident that showed BiYeon’s inability to grasp San’s words.

 

At another episode, BiYeon observed and reported to San's father that, “Ever since she came home this time, she’s had one person in mind all the time. And whenever she would think of him, she had a smile on her face.”

 

This was Won. In her love confession to him, San said that he broke through the wall she maintained to keep people at a distance. Then, in her conversation with the queen and the Eunuch, the smile on her face and the laugher in her voice as she discussed Won was conspicuous. Those moments corroborated what BiYeon said. Won made her smile. 

 

She told the Queen.

Spoiler

She told the Eunuch.

Spoiler

 

Then, another time, BiYeon said that “It’s the person who drinks with her too and gets along with her at ease.”  That was 100% Won. Rin didn’t know good wine from horsepiss. But BiYeon incorrectly ruled out Won because she thought Won lived in a strict palace. She didn’t know that Won had his own Geumgwajeon where even Dan knows he spent more time in than the actual palace. And the Geumgwajeon was full of his wine. In Episode 4, San was sniffing all the precious wine at his place and even taking one ladle when Won interrupted her.

 

Won: You are bolder than you look. How dare you steal the CP’s alcohol?
San: I’m just tasting it. 
Won: I thought you were going to fall into the claypot.
San: Be quiet. (whacking him on the shoulder)
Won: Violence and assault? How dare you, to the Crown Prince’s guard--
San: Give it back. (asking for the ladle)
Won: I won’t. 

 

See? San shared Won's liking for drinks, and she was so at ease with him that she wouldn't think twice "whacking him."

 

Lastly, BiYeon observed, after visiting San in CP’s room, that San couldn’t make her mystery man smile anymore. What changed? 

Spoiler

 

What changed was the demands on Won. San had spent the day with Won, observing how serious he had become and burdened by the state of affairs. She was no longer first, he said, but the last. The last one. He told her grimly, “Now, there’s no one by my side besides you. I chased them all out.” She couldn’t make him smile as easily as before. 

 

@alekaonu, @deandraluv and @ZarraJae, I love your perspectives on WonSan in the finale.  You all pointed out good stuff.  Thank you. And thank you, too, @seogwangnim for asking that question.  It got us all thinking here. 

 

@alekaonu is right that he did step back. One second, he was being his usual protective self, telling San to watch out (and not fall into the water) then the next moment, he was moving away. 

And @deandraluv pointed out that at the hut, he had ordered Rin to take care of San, "Her clothing is thin. Stay beside her." And then he walked away to give them space so Rin could say his proper apologies and ask for the King's scroll back. 

 

In both these times, he still regarded San as "his woman" and Rin acknowledged, too.  He knew that Rin wasn't going to covet "Won's woman" anymore, because Rin regretted his lust and greed. But Won had a major task ahead as the ruler of the nation which was about to undergo turmoil because of what SongIn, with Rin's unwitting cooperation (ha!), did. As San once reminded him in the forest, he couldn't waver now because if he wavered it would be the misfortune for the nation.  

 

So @ZarraJae pointed out something crucial there, too, and I agree with her.  Won was practicing his farewell. At every turn, although his instinct was to get closer to her, to hold her hand in the hut, to sit beside her by the river bank, to cover her up with thicker clothes, to make sure she was eating well, to exchange happy memories of their past..., he was fighting himself and STEELING himself in order to prepare his heart -- and hers -- for their coming separation. It wasn't because he didn't love her anymore or he loved her less than she did or she didn't love him at all. No.  But he had to be strong for both of them because their parting was inevitable. 

 

Now we all know of course that after seven months as King, he relinquished the throne.

 

 

There's only ONE and one reason alone that he would have given up THAT throne. We know that Won wasn't a quitter. Even when his mother died and the whole world was collapsing around him, he kept his wits about him, and he was focused on the job. The only reason he would have given up THAT throne was SoHwa. As he said, to have her, that one person whom he loved more than anybody in the world, including himself, he would abandon everything. 

 

And he did. 

[deandraluv]

2 hours ago, packmule3 said:

Oh! I missed this scene!   When did San say this? Which episode? It really does connect everything to Won, right

 

It was my mistake, chingu. It was another scene when San wore the same outfit and chased the snake guy in her father's hunting ground.  

 

Taken from ep 7 around 21:00-21:07.  When San was telling Bi Yeon that she didn't get to see the 2nd young master because somebody got in the way.   Someone who always gave away things.   An interesting way of describing a man

[packmule3]

48 minutes ago, deandraluv said:

 

It was my mistake, chingu. It was another scene when San wore the same outfit and chased the snake guy in her father's hunting ground.  

 

Taken from ep 7 around 21:00-21:07.  When San was telling Bi Yeon that she didn't get to see the 2nd young master because somebody got in the way.   Someone who always gave away things.   An interesting way of describing a man

 

I don't seem to have that....   Did you mean Ep 7 in the 30 minute edition of TKIL or Ep 7 (or Ep 14) in the hour long version? 

 

Why was she talking to BiYeon? Was it after she visited the Wang Household to check to see which brother was a better match for BiYeon? Maybe if you tell me the scene right before and after this, I can find it quicker. Thanks. 

 

Or you can tell the dramasite where you watched TKIL and I'll look for it there. I only have viki. 

[deandraluv]

3 hours ago, packmule3 said:

 

I don't seem to have that....   Did you mean Ep 7 in the 30 minute edition of TKIL or Ep 7 (or Ep 14) in the hour long version? 

 

Why was she talking to BiYeon? Was it after she visited the Wang Household to check to see which brother was a better match for BiYeon? Maybe if you tell me the scene right before and after this, I can find it quicker. Thanks. 

 

Or you can tell the dramasite where you watched TKIL and I'll look for it there. I only have viki. 

Ooops.... It is ep 7 of the short version... So it is ep 4 of the long version.... 

 

On the scene that Bi Yeon said,  if the man was good,  San married him,  if not,  BY would marry him.  Bi Yeon asked how he was.  (After her father told her to return to the mountain.)   

[alekaonu]

9 hours ago, packmule3 said:

There's only ONE and one reason alone that he would have given up THAT throne. We know that Won wasn't a quitter. Even when his mother died and the whole world was collapsing around him, he kept his wits about him, and he was focused on the job. The only reason he would have given up THAT throne was SoHwa. As he said, to have her, that one person whom he loved more than anybody in the world, including himself, he would abandon everything. 

 

And he did. 

 

Annyeong @packmule3 chingu, I love what you mentioned above. That's what I thought too.

[angelwingssf]

36 minutes ago, alekaonu said:

 

10 hours ago, packmule3 said:

There's only ONE and one reason alone that he would have given up THAT throne. We know that Won wasn't a quitter. Even when his mother died and the whole world was collapsing around him, he kept his wits about him, and he was focused on the job. The only reason he would have given up THAT throne was SoHwa. As he said, to have her, that one person whom he loved more than anybody in the world, including himself, he would abandon everything. 

 

And he did. 

 

Annyeong @packmule3 chingu, I love what you mentioned above. That's what I thought too.

 

 

This is the narration by Won to the one who loves.  The first episode starts saying that 4:30  about the story of him loving her more than himself.  In the last episode , the voice over says the same thing.  If you analyze any book with a starting paragraph and ending paragraph being the same, it indicates that the person was narrating this story to the other.  So, Won is telling this story to San.  

 

Won was never a quitter, even the toughest tasks he would see it to the end.  Even when he granted San 's request to stop finding out the perpetrators of San's mother's death, he did it quietly without anyone knowing about it.  He loved the people of Goreyo.  That is why when San and Won were conversing, he was asking her how would it have been if he were not the CP;   The only obstacle for Won standing between him and his love was the kingship.  That was the reason why, San turned back and cried, whereas Rin was as clueless as always.    After cleaning up the mess that Ran and SongIn created, he brought order to the government and removed the bad element.  Now that things were in order, he knew his father could take care of the throne.  Knowing San was in Namgae, so close to Goreyo, - he knew she was waiting for him.  They both knew what the other wanted without any words spoken between them.  So, he did the only thing he could, and abdicated the throne and went to his love.  

[nyeb2tosq]

On 29/09/2017 at 3:58 PM, mslee said:

for me the attachment between San and Won began here..

ep 2

 

 love how he laid down carefully besides her. As early as this stage after meeting her 7 years later, his attraction was evident. Her status was never an issue for him. As a crowned prince he never thought that finding this girl lovable would be a mockery or something that should be regarded as ridiculous by others.

 

His concern was touching. She needed warmth in that cold surface inside the cave. Not thinking that his friend would be a "rival" in the unforeseen future or that he would attempt to covet his woman...

He let him lay down beside her on the other side. For him her needs was the priority and she felt cold that moment.

 

of course this had been discussed before but this moment was also cute and what real otp does in drama..

some say she thinks of him as a friend..but will you do that to your male friend? I won't!  Certainly on a lover whom i had already spent intimate moments.

 Only fated lovers have this kind of attachment..whether silly, romantic or emotional tragedy, that brings them together.

 

I find it odd that Rin in the last episode of the drama told San how he fell in love with her when he was 12 years old. 

 

Did writers forgot this scene? 

  Reveal hidden contents

Rin was unaffected, if this moment would be the source of debate. 

They were talking about San. Won in particular was telling him about this maid who must have been forced out of the house and grew up in the mountains after her madame died. His connection with her was never cut. He carried those scars with him silently. He never had a moment where he forgot what happened. 

i did not make any screen cap on Rin [coz he left a lasting impression on me..bad that is]

Watching the scene i ask myself or even the writer and direstor..

Was this the man who professed his youthful love to San in episode 20 when he seemed to have lived lying about the truth and not worried like Won had?

Rin's face was readable. There was no reading behind his face or mask if he had wore one in this stance in front of Won.

He was not interested towards the maid. I could agree he felt sympathy though.

 

But Won felt empathy towards So Hwa (San) all this time. And this is the attachment or bond that is stronger than any other confession there is.

 

 

 

This!!!! I would definitely harass the like button if i could. As early as ep 2 we all can see the strong connection between Won and San. Please see the gif attached (i know i shouldnt quote gif, but i love that scene) and in the next ep we learned that San remembers him all this time and forever grateful to him. So to me, the way San teased Won with wiping her face on his clothes was a sign of affection <3 and c'mon you would never get that close with someone you dont feel comfortable with!

Bear with me people, i am tracking behind as far as page 4 hahaha

[nyeb2tosq]

On 30/09/2017 at 6:33 PM, YourHighness . said:

 

Anyway,

I would like to point out something else for our WonSan.

Won ALWAYS, ALWAYS walks parallel and with San. WITH her. Even when Won proposed San to run away with her and roam the world, he was walking with her as she was trying to find him. He is always besides her. I think that's beautiful.

 

Another thing, Won respects San's abilities. He never doubts her or treats her like a little wilting flower. He sends bodyguards as added protection but instructs them to hang back until she needs them. He trusts her to take care of herself first and foremost. I love that in him. Rin though always underestimated her and her abilities. For example when he took the war horse to get San to the dance party. He asked her not to gallop on it. He treated her like he treats Dan.

 

One more thing about our Won. He gives freedom to San to do whatever she wants. She wants to drink, she can. She wants to dance, she can. She wants something from him. He will grant her anything. Rin thought always tried to reign her freedom. Don't drink that. Don't go out. Don't say that. Don't meet him. Don't go there.

 

Is there still a question on which guy would any sane headstrong girl like San choose?

Sorry to cut your post @YourHighness .  

 

Won always walk parallel with San indeed. He let her be. He trust her and understand her. And from re-watching the drama for 4th time San understand and trust Won really well too. They are in the same wavelengths, i think i see misunderstanding between Won-Rin and Rin-San in comparison to Won-San

[nyeb2tosq]

On 30/09/2017 at 7:28 PM, deandraluv said:

At first, I was reluctant to start re-watching TKL.  I was reluctant to see how San 'fell in love with Rin' as Yoona mentioned in her interview.  But I wanted to prove otherwise.  I want to prove how it was written as San came to like Won so much. Re -watching TKL continues to amaze me how obvious San showed her liking and feelings towards Won from ep 7-14. Those clues are beyond male female relationship

I can totally relate to your post @deandraluv, im currently up to ep 22 and i cant believe how much more details i have picked up this time around. 

 

 

[packmule3]

3 hours ago, alekaonu said:

 

Annyeong @packmule3 chingu, I love what you mentioned above. That's what I thought too.

 

Great minds think alike.

 

 

I'm high-fiving myself because you're not here beside me. 

 

22 hours ago, alekaonu said:

 

But he gave in to his feelings when his minister reported that San has been sighted near the city. Its as though San was signalling to him that she was waiting for him and that she was not with Rin. Maybe that's why in the end, he left the palace and went to Yuan with San as his beloved Jobi.

 

 What do you think of my POV? chingu deul 

 

And wasn't Jobi the consort whom the real Won loved?

 

I think the writer SJN had to be careful to stay within biographical facts. She couldn't simply PROCLAIM that this WonSan love story was Won and Jobi's love story. That would be brazen of her and disrespectful of history.  However, as a writer, she could reinterpret the orthodox views. She created a plausible story of WonSan's love that not only paid homage to the real relationship of Won and Jobi but also dovetailed fact and fiction perfectly. To me, WonSan's love story could be viewed as a PREQUEL to Won and Jobi's love story. 

 

Also, to me, the screenplay of TKL is a mirror image of the book. Almost all the important events in the book TKL also occurred in the drama TKL. However, it was a given a new perspective and direction, which was decidedly more favorable to Won.

 

Whereas the book portrayed Won as a manipulative, power-hungry anti-hero and Rin as the sympathetic hero, the drama reversed it around. Won was the sympathetic guy, while Rin became the greedy and backstabbing sidekick, and the bumbling co-conspirator.  In the book, Won drove the San and Rin into each other’s arms with his jealousy. In the drama, Rin couldn’t cut the thread between San and Rin even with his manipulation to take away San. In the book, San and Rin fled from Won. In the drama, San hovered nearby for Won to reappear. 

 

If, in the book, San and Rin walked off together in the final episode, then yes, I would assume that it meant that they were together as a couple. However, in the script, when San and Rin walked off together, we know that they were walking together as friends, and friends alone.  That was the point of their conversation in the hut. He was informing her that he couldn’t keep his promise to follow her everywhere and that he was wrong in his greed to make her his. (lol. I’m going to repeat THIS over and over again until it connects with the lurking Rin-fans.)  More importantly, Rin already confessed to having committed a great sin of coveting Won’s woman for which he deserved death as punishment.  And in a way, he did receive a death sentence because he was forever gone from his beloved family. It was thanks to Won that he was spared an actual death for the crisis he precipitated because of his temporary Rinsanity. 

 

@deandraluvThank you! I found the scene. Will edit this and post the screenshots. 

 

This ties in so nicely with @ZarraJae's post earlier. 

In her confession, she told Won, "I couldn't help it, but I started liking you since then. You kept giving me something that I have never received in my life. Who is this person? Is he like a New Year's lucky pouch? He gives it to me even before I even made a wish."

 

lol. This is @ZarraJae's first attempt at photoshopping. 

credit: zarrajae

 

 

@nyeb2tosq feel free to add your thoughts too. 

[nyeb2tosq]

Thoughts and favourite scene from ep 12 (23-24)

How hot is our Crown Prince as he stormed into the King's chamber looking for his beloved San. Enraged Won = Smexy Won 

 

San stepping up to defend Won in front of the King. One of the many reason of why I like her character! Some people say she's fickle minded or thinks that she can't make up her mind. But I see her as someone who is clear as day in terms of who she likes. She expressed herself well in the previous scene where she admitted that she can't think properly when Won's around. Or that she would like to stay by his side at the bridge. When so hwa told won not to choose her agasshi, becauce she likes someone else. She wasnt even very convincing. And Won as smart as he is, must know that she's lying. Hence when he told Rin the reason why he did not choose San, he just casually blurt out that she likes someone else. he did not even think it was a big deal. However, we can see rin's change of expression there. Owh not to forget Won and San conversation inside the jail. She sacrificed herself to ensure that Won can keep Ron by his side. If that's not love I dunno what is. 

 

I'm still somewhat confuse as to why Queen brought out the topic of red thread to Won. When Won asked "did she say I am not the one?" Queens expression is hard for me to interpret. And no I don't think her expression confirming a yes at all. Anyone can help me with this One? However I realised that the conversation gave the idea to Won that he may not be the one. 

 

Which bring us to next scene.

 

Rin cleaning up San's wound. After watching it for the 4th times, i realised that we can see more of Rin's reaction of the closeness. San was too busy thinking of Won't deposition, or urging Run not to mind her and go to provide aid for Won. Rin grab San' s hand was shown to show viewer that Rin is taking a step forward in expressing his liking for San.  

 

So Hwa and Han Cheon moment under the influence is one my many Wonsan scene. I like how So Hwa saw Han Cheon and she's all like I must be dreaming, but do we sense that she's glad she had dream of him?  although wons expression when San mentioned bird in her sleep really bothers me. 

 

The next morning we can see San is excitedly walking to see her Crown Prince and her face literally beaming when she saw him. And why do she always need to run to see Won? Like girl calm down he's not going anywhere  And now I understand that San was looking around for Rin was to ask for her father. Not because she likes Rin as to what everyone thought in the main thread. 

 

Now on the next scene Won ask San to run away together. In a way I think Won wants to test the water, esp after the conversation he had wit the Queen the night before. When Won asked San "crown Prince seat, should I just give it away?" And san's expression is just literally me when I'm on diet and someone says fried chicken!  however then San saw Dan and hot her focus back to my dissapointment. Why this girl is so nice to everyone! Ugh. San told Won not to waver. I love both of their expressions here. My interpretation of Won from this scene is that he called her bluff, he knew she refused to answer and retaliate instead and that's why he did not say much and just say "then let's go!"

 

Azalea scene is just breathtakingly beautiful. And I think I agree that the second scene being the actual scene. 

 

Sorry for the super long post guys

[packmule3]

2 hours ago, angelwingssf said:

 

Won was never a quitter, even the toughest tasks he would see it to the end.  Even when he granted San 's request to stop finding out the perpetrators of San's mother's death, he did it quietly without anyone knowing about it.  He loved the people of Goreyo.  That is why when San and Won were conversing, he was asking her how would it have been if he were not the CP;   The only obstacle for Won standing between him and his love was the kingship.  That was the reason why, San turned back and cried, whereas Rin was as clueless as always.    After cleaning up the mess that Ran and SongIn created, he brought order to the government and removed the bad element.  Now that things were in order, he knew his father could take care of the throne.  Knowing San was in Namgae, so close to Goreyo, - he knew she was waiting for him.  They both knew what the other wanted without any words spoken between them.  So, he did the only thing he could, and abdicated the throne and went to his love.  

 

So true. They talked about it while they were on that evening stroll in the woods together.  San knew what Won must do first... now that SHE was going to be the last. lol. those two! They really had a way of communicating and deciphering each other's message that requires audience to be on their toes to catch the meaning. 

 

And you're right, that was why she turned back and cried while smiling.

She was reassuring Won not to worry about her by putting on the brave front. Rin had told her that she was a "strong" girl so he wasn't worried about her. She said that she was only pretending to be brave.

 

2 hours ago, angelwingssf said:

 

This is the narration by Won to the one who loves.  The first episode starts saying that 4:30  about the story of him loving her more than himself.  In the last episode , the voice over says the same thing.  If you analyze any book with a starting paragraph and ending paragraph being the same, it indicates that the person was narrating this story to the other.  So, Won is telling this story to San.  

 

 

I agree. Repetition is for emphasis. When SJN insisted on the same idea, "This is a story of ME who came to love YOU more than myself" at the beginning and the finale, you know she meant it as metaphorical BOOKENDS. And the whole narration was a dialogue between the Won and his beloved, San. Otherwise, he wouldn't call her "you" or noreul.  He would have been fine with using the third person to address San. But this is also in keeping with Won. Won believed that important things had to be communicated in person, heart-to-heart, face-to-face.

[deandraluv]

1 hour ago, nyeb2tosq said:

My interpretation of Won from this scene is that he called her bluff, he knew she refused to answer and retaliate instead and that's why he did not say much and just say "then let's go!"

Yup!   

 

I just caught on with the episode when Rin told San that he wanted to spend the rest of his life with her.   These two men basically proposed to her as her life partner.   

 

But I noticed the different reactions and expressions by San.   With Won,  actually she was tempted by the offer, but she saw Dan,  and made up an answer that she would help him and stay by his side.   

 

With Rin,  she clearly admitted that she had Won in mind.  She couldn't break the red thread.   This is a very strong evidence whom San had feelings for.   Even the shy look and eye gazings on this scene between them don't matter much.   (unless San was not a consistent person, or there is some kind of disconnection between her heart and action) 

[packmule3]

5 hours ago, nyeb2tosq said:

 

Sorry for the super long post guys

 

Hahaha. Don't you know that the WonSan team is known (and was ridiculed, I kid you not.) for writing super long posts? As @YourHighness . says, we love long posts. It shows that much thought and special care were given to the drama.  No gap-fillers or "OMG! my feels for ~~oppa!"   

 

I always appreciate the time and effort -- not to mention, the patience! -- the poster took to write her comment, so thank you and the other ladies here.  

 

5 hours ago, nyeb2tosq said:

 

I'm still somewhat confuse as to why Queen brought out the topic of red thread to Won. When Won asked "did she say I am not the one?" Queens expression is hard for me to interpret. And no I don't think her expression confirming a yes at all. Anyone can help me with this One? However I realised that the conversation gave the idea to Won that he may not be the one. 

 

 

You know, I’m convinced that the Queen (and indirectly SJN) had an ulterior motive for causing insecurity and jealousy in Won. Go ahead and count how many times she had insinuated that San preferred Rin to Won. Twice? Three times? 

 

I think she was trying to put enmity between Won and Rin so Won would cut ties with Rin. So I don’t put much credence in her observation. 

 

You see, if SHE truly believed that San did NOT love Won, then why did she always approach San for assistance and throw San in Won’s direct path. Was this her idea of a cruel joke on her son? Lol. Even after San went against her wish to punish Rin and Rin’s family, she called her to her palace and asked her to help Won. She also confided to San about the peony which was too personal a story to reveal to just any ordinary girl. To me, she gave San multiple chances to help Won, not only because San was wealthy but because she saw that San genuinely cared for her son.  San would fight for her Won like no other.  She begged the King to listen to Won when Rin didn't even do anything to defend his best friend. lol.

 

The queen only closed the door on San at the end, just right before Dan’s wedding.

 

But I must say that the Queen’s peony story was a nice touch in the drama.  If San’s mother gave Won her personal message to San before she died, then Won’s mother was giving San her personal message for Won before she passed away too. You could see so many direct parallels here. For example, the way Won tried to stop San from giving in to her hatred and vengeance was similar to the way San tried to stop Won from giving in to his.  

 

*btw, at Rin’s trial, based on her location, the Queen was unable to see San’s eyes/expression when she turned to look at Won. San’s head was turned away from her. What the Queen saw was Rin’s face who nodded at San. The Queen then assumed that Rin and San communicated something when all along Rin was just signaling to San that it was alright for her to tell the truth. 
 
To me, then, I would listen to the Queen’s opinion on "San's love" but I would take it under advisement (meaning, I’ll ignore it). Like Won, I wouldn’t let her words shake my confidence in the object of San’s affection.
 

[mslee]

So many insightful posts. The truth is..i haven't watched tkl again. When making gif i just choose scenes so basically im still not re watching but reading posts here i somehow remember those scenes. 

I think the queen was also used by the director to create ambiguity. But then a mother would not want to have her only son love a woman who cant return the same love..right? I think she somehow knew San likes Won as a man. She was staring at her crying silently during the tea party when Won chose Dan. Her expressions were intriguing..as if she found out what she really looks for in San. 

I like her really. She may be cunning and manipulative but all she did was for her son and for his protection. Being the successor is a must because it will be a guarantee for Won's life.

[Kissy13]

@seogwangnim Welcome to this thread chinguya..and thank you for the info 'bout Siwankeep your questions coming please hehehe wanted to read brilliant explanations/answers just like @deandraluv @alekaonu @ZarraJae @packmule3 posted on this thread

and let me answer your third question..Why Teacher Lee said that the Crown Prince doesn't like to drink...you know teacher lee likes to use "Idiomatic Expression"..

Master Lee: You know the prince doesn't like to drink

Student: Are you upset?

Master Lee: The opposite..and said this "He does not know the value of what he does not like" "He is bound to serve it without holding back" When I see him, I will invite him for a drink.

but as to why Won have to marry San..I have lots to say on this matter..I can post a long analysis on this one but have to hold myselfI can rant whole day just talking how stupid the Wang Family on this scene...I'm not bashing any character just talking about the facts here...thanks to his BEST FRIENDS AND HIS FAMILY that Won have to sacrifice his love for their stupidityAnd as @Bambiina said on MT..Won is a man of his word

 

 

@bebe1989 @YourHighness . add on... Won maybe used harsh/mean words to San but treated her with so much gentleness while Rin used kind words to San but forced to kissed her without HER CONSENT

NOW..we know whose the Real/TRUE GENTLEMAN here

@packmule3 love the MOTORCYCLE AND BODY PARTS

 @nyeb2tosq As to why Princess Won Seung mention to Won about this red thread..and San also mention this thread to Rin..you see another reflecting scene..

"A red string will get tangled up however it wants, so you cannot make it go the way you want it to" And sometimes, it snaps"

Won and San are soulmate..they are destined to meet again and again..red thread tangled them up..Rin tries to cut this thread but San came back to Won..SHE CHOOSE TO STAY WITH WON..than to plea with Rin..but we all know why she wanted to run away...coz she thinks and agreed to Dan and Pincess Won Seung that her presence may bring danger to Won..the thread snaps again when they bid farewell for the time being..but SAN CHOOSE TO WAIT FOR HIM..coz she knows that Won cherished her so much..cherished her to MUCH FOR HIM TO hold her back..I know we all said this for how many times already but I will say it again kekeke..yeah effect of  WONSANity

Won is saying this line to San "This is the story of me,who came to love YOU more than myself"

Ah by the way in episode 38 when San confess her feelings to Won..grrrr their line seems like a wedding vow to me

San "I knew not how to receive"..but Won open up her heart..and teach her to receive his love..

Won "I knew not how to give"..but San teaches him that sometimes if you love someone their are times that you have to set them free

 

Won doesn't need a whistle for the falcon to return..HIS LOVE and through his love alone..that is calling out for San to return to his side..and she did..

SHE LET HIM KNOW THAT SHE IS WAITING FOR HIM coz again she knows that she is being cherished by him so much

Another long post being talkative coz of TKL

 

@mslee

Spoiler

Just teasing you 'bout Siwan..now I regret watching THE MERCILESS..coz I can't help to murder the replay button for the nth time

 

And sorry chingus..I will not be able to post for the whole month I think..quarter ending need to make bunch of reportbut I will try to lurk on this thread from time to time and try to butt in..can't make promises though

Have a great day everyone

[packmule3]

Oh noooo, don't leave @Kissy13.

Kajima! 

 

(Lol. I knew that kdrama word would come in handy one day!)

 

I love what you said here:

 

Quote

Ah by the way in episode 38 when San confess her feelings to Won..grrrr their line seems like a wedding vow to me

San "I knew not how to receive"..but Won open up her heart..and teach her to receive his love..

Won "I knew not how to give"..but San teaches him that sometimes if you love someone their are times that you have to set them free

 

 

 

 

It does look like a wedding vow. They're saying that alone, without meeting the other person, they would have gone on living incomplete lives. But because the other person "happened" in their lives, they've become better persons. They've been changed FOR GOOD. 

 

Come back soon soon and post comments between your coffee breaks. Or on weekends. 

 

I'll bribe you with more body parts posts.

[deandraluv]

I will continue to share things that I didn't notice/pick up before.  I am on a mission to find whom San had in mind throughout the drama

 

Ep.  24

-The scene when Won asked San to forget everything and spend the rest of the days together.  Many of you have written and posted on the scene.  I was once again stunned how the writer made it pretty clear actually how San felt towards Won.  San did not answer 'no' right away.  Only after she saw Dan and recalled Dan's words that Won would be her husband that she answered him.  I think she gave another implicit answer, "No, don't get to travel to faraway country, but yes, I will stay with you."  

 

Ep. 25

-When San came as her Master Lee sent her, she smiled at Won.  (She always smiled at Won first.  It was one of the many instances of San smiling at Won, and got excited when she saw him.)

 

-San to Rin:  I must know and end it to start over.  Only then can I stop feeling guilty and enjoy good food and good company and get on with my life.  

The fact that she got her taste-bud (Won noticed) back showed that she had stopped feeling guilty and get on with her life.  Won was happy for her knowing from Master Lee why she lost it.  

 

Ep. 26

-When San wanted to kill Wang Jeon and settle the whole thing.  Like many of you pointed out, it couldn't have been Rin who was in her heart.   How could she kill Wang Jeon to start new life with Rin?  It doesn't make sense.  If she succeeded in killing Wang Jeon, it would be harder for her to start her life with Rin.   So, it could have been Won whom she wanted to get on with.

 

-The Queen only wanted San as Won's wife.  She tried to find flaw in Dan's family.  It was her last attempt to make Won happy.  She had noticed that San had feelings for Won.

 

Ep. 27

-The scene when WonSan were in Won's bedroom.  San felt very weak to get out of bed but managed to go downstairs to inquire what was going on between Won and Dan.  There was an awkward moment when San saw Dan leaning at Won's body.  The women were jealous of each other.  San was jealous of Dan, especially when the woman who brought the tea set told San to bring it to the future Crown Princess and she might like it.  Dan was jealous of San because she spent a night in Won's bedroom.  

San:  His Highness thinks of me as a friend.  Like one of the boys.  (Really, San?  Are you naive?  Is that how you feel that you were just one of the boys?  

 

The other team glorified the scene when San testified against Wang Family and called it a sweet moment of them.  They thought that San decided to release the family because San loved Rin.  I think they missed watching the previous scene.  San was actually so fired up to punish Wang Jeon.  We could see anger in her eyes.  But something happened.  Won pulled San aside before she proceeded to the interrogation hall.  It was Won who talked to her out of it:

 

Won: I was too late.  I was looking into your mother's death.  I was looking for proof that Song In was behind it.  I had no idea....She asked you to lie.  Will you do so?  Then Rin will go down as well

San: He knew of it.  That his brother had killed my mother (San was pissed off that Rin  hid the truth

         from her as well)

Won:  He did not know.  He suspected so. (Actually he did know, Won)

San:  He deceived me.  (Yes, he did)

Won:  It's different.  He could not tell you for fear this would happen.  If Jeon is charged, Rin will

          suffer.  So will Dan. (Aha, won mentioned Dan's name and San got jealous,  I think, she

           answered:)

San:  So what?  Should I let them go?

Won:  Can you not?

San:  Should I let him live.....as if nothing happened after what he did?  Should I let him go on with

          life? (While San herself still couldn't)

Then Won held her hands and begged her:

Won : San, please.  Cover it up.  Pretend nothing happened.  I will repay you

San:  You save your friend. I will do what I must.

 

San also recalled Won's words about covering it up before she testified.

 

Won knew that she covered it up not because she loved Rin,  but she did it for Won.  San listened to Won and followed what Won said.  He said to her:

Won:  Well done. Thank you!

 

Won proved himself as a loyal friend.  He was not possessive at all as others might have thought.  If he was possessive of San,  he wouldn't have to persuade San to cover up for Rin.  He would have fueled San's anger and made her hate Rin. He wouldn't have to persuade her.   No, he was not such a man.  If he thought of Rin as his rival, he could have easily won by letting San punish Wang Jeon and his family.  Actually the path of marrying San instead of Dan would be easier if San didn't cover up for Wang Jeon but Won thought about Rin's family above his own interest.  

 

Will write more from the following episodes.   

[packmule3]

Additional thoughts, @Kissy13. 

 

I love that that the OTP WonSan had heart-to-heart talks like that. They're low-key dialogues and San RESPONDS to him. 

 

As as opposed to Rin's apology in the hut. Lol. You can tell that San did NOT reciprocate his feelings because she didn't try to correct him or to dissuade when he apologized that he was temporarily blinded by his greed for her. She kept quiet. Her silence was her tacit agreement that what he did to break her ties with Won was wrong.

 

She kept silent because she didn't need to rub it in. She understood how guilty and regretful he was. She could already tell he felt guilty and trapped when they met in SongIn's geisha house and she informed him that it was RIN's ALLIES who poisoned her father, not the Queen. Lol. Rin was acting all concerned about her well-being but all she wanted to talk about was Won and to clear up Rin's misconception that Won's mother was behind her father's death. She knew then that Rin had stupidly found himself in a real predicament that he couldn't possibly dare to hope for forgiveness or understanding from Won who had always been loyal to his sidekick. Yet she insisted that he go to Won because she trusted Won.

 

Pwahahaha. 

 

I don't give a flying duck that Rin and San had "eye contacts" or "silent gazes" galore. Not once did she express loving him or liking him or caring for him as something other than a friend to both her and Won.

 

During that time he was cleaning her head wound, she found it awkward. Of course, the silly fangirls deluded themselves that there was "sexual tension" or mutual attraction there. Hellooo? He was touching her hair but she was going on about Won being in danger and Won needing help. Then later that night, she thought she was dreaming of Won and was reminding herself to return the hairpin to him. Lol. If she was flustered by Rin's touching her hair, why didn't she dream of him and go ~~"Oppa touched my hair tonight." 

 

Also, in Episode 19 she told the two arrow thieves to relay the message  to him that she'd see him in seven years if he was still hanging around the Crown Prince. Lol. That's a conditional statement: IF you're with Won, I'll see you.

 

Her meeting him again was contingent upon his being in Won's orbit. If he wasn't with Won, then whoopsie, I guess she wouldn't be seeing him. 

 

I can't help remembering Rin's silent appeal to her during the maypole dance: What about me?!

[packmule3]

2 hours ago, mslee said:

So many insightful posts. The truth is..i haven't watched tkl again. When making gif i just choose scenes so basically im still not re watching but reading posts here i somehow remember those scenes. 

I think the queen was also used by the director to create ambiguity. But then a mother would not want to have her only son love a woman who cant return the same love..right? I think she somehow knew San likes Won as a man. She was staring at her crying silently during the tea party when Won chose Dan. Her expressions were intriguing..as if she found out what she really looks for in San. 

I like her really. She may be cunning and manipulative but all she did was for her son and for his protection. Being the successor is a must because it will be a guarantee for Won's life.

 

I agree. I think the Queen was used by the director to troll the viewers.  Every time the viewers would think that they were finally going to get confirmation of San's object of affection from the Queen, there would be an interruption (i.e., the Queen's sudden illness) or a reversal. 

 

She told Won that she of all people knew how a woman looked at a man she loved. She was lying about seeing San's face as she confronted Rin at the Interrogation Room. Unless she was Superman with Xray vision, she couldn't possibly see the front of the face when the back of the head was turned to her. 

 

But she had unobstructed view of how San looked like when Won chose Dan as his bride. She was crying.

 

And she had unobstructed view too of how San looked like when the doors opened and she was introduced as Teacher Lee's representative? She was beaming. 

 

credit: @mslee

 

Not only that. The hairpin was a giveaway. The Queen saw the hairpin and she must have remembered her peony. She too had once received an unexpected gift, a peony, from a person she fell in love with. She knew the meaning of mementos because she too had once been given romantic gift which she cherished until her death.

 

Hairpin = peony

 

I also agree with you. It's sad that the only way she could protect Won's life from extinction was to aggressively ensure that he was his father's successor. In a sense, she was holding onto a double-edged sword. She cut and hurt herself defending Won while she cut and hurt those attacking Won. I like the image of the Queen dragging the curved sword in Episode 2 to get the whereabouts of Won and Won dragging a sword (was it the same curved one?) in Episode 18 to hunt for his mother's killers.