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[Drama 2018] My Mister, 나의 아저씨 - Best Drama at 2019 (55th) BaekSang Arts Awards


Go Seung Ji

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11 hours ago, YukawaCattle said:

By the way, to me, Yeom Mi-jeong+Mr. Gu in MLN and Park Dong-hoon+Lee Ji-an in MM are equivalent. But Yeom Mi-jeong corresponds to Park Dong-hoon, while Mr. Gu corresponds to Lee Ji-an. 

 

It is distinguished by personality. Mr. Gu is as wild as Ji-an. Yeom Mi-jeong is the same as Park Dong-hoon who doesn't like to have conflicts with people. 

 

Interestingly, I remember that stray dogs symbolize Mr. Gu in MLN, and then I remember Lee Sun-kyun had described Ji-an as a stray cat in an interview. I guess Lee Sun-kyun will use "stray cat" to describe Ji-an because this is Ji-an's official character setting.

 

Yes to all of this! Mr Gu is street smart, a stranger who arrived out of nowhere, a hard worker, and a very private, silent person, just like Ji An. Yeom Mi Jeong is one of three siblings, introverted, dutiful, has a hard time speaking up for herself, and struggling at work, just like Dong Hoon. I really liked seeing the parallels when watching My Liberation Notes.

 

The slimy people at work were so easy to hate in both Saman E and C and at Mi Jeong's company.

 

And the stray dog/ stray cat thing...both Mi Jeong and Dong Hoon wanted to protect and care for their respective stray dog and cat :).

 

On 11/16/2022 at 10:53 PM, dongans said:

As it was said before, those structures that are made to prevent earthquakes indeed needs to be flexible, because during the earthquake the building needs incline so they make little right and left movements, in some extent of degree, to prevent from cracking and to collapse. I think that those times of earthquake for Dong Hoon demands him to flexible and to go with the flow... without that, he would break. He couldn't be that impulsive like he was with Kang Il.

 

Nice insight! You're right - Dong Hoon had to go with the flow and couldn't force bringing back Ji An into his orbit. He had to bear the weight (absorb the shocks) and be flexible, and wait. And when he did see her in Choon Dae's shack, he still had to be gentle with her. He came in hot with Kwang Il; he definitely couldn't come in hot with her, otherwise she would withdraw again like a stray cat.

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On 11/19/2022 at 5:41 AM, the_sweetroad said:

And the stray dog/ stray cat thing...both Mi Jeong and Dong Hoon wanted to protect and care for their respective stray dog and cat :).

 

Both Yeom Mi-jeong and Park Dong-hoon are stray animal-friendly people (?)
 

-----

 

I just thought of something recently. That is, in Korean alcohol-drinking etiquette, juniors cannot drink face-to-face in front of their elders. The youngsters need to turn around and drink.

 

 

Itaewon Class, EP1

ud91cr954lFkv-QgznSIuGMcI0BVggmfXknJNAHI

 

 

Vincenzo, EP2

xaq5NzeVkSUxKlbemNzMHUsj_wVdu07V2SGkHQUA

 

 

But when Lee Ji-an was drinking with Park Dong-hoon, she didn't have this kind of action, and it seemed Dong-hoon didn't care about it.

 

 

Spoiler

(EP7-1)

Dea_-71GmgmC7sVQQy02ccYcvyVQtIxw4Ki-TIbi

 

 

(EP7-2)

en3WqPamJgu5rCysDIXt6QpDgIcc3dGHBNssoiMQ

 

 

(EP12)

40wgicTeNQ7m_W-26klxdyFVdzi1K3Ww5DUab96y

 

↑ Ji-an always acts like this from the beginning DongAn have dinner. She didn't change how she interacted with Dong-hoon even after she fell in love with him.

 

 

And I remember that when a junior accepts a drink from an elder, they must accept it with both hands raised.

 

 

Itaewon Class, EP1

MTYtChzLDymOfJSf0ZYjnxUQy3PB_h3ODGDZHp8s

 

 

But Ji-an also didn't do this action when Dong-hoon poured wine for her every time.

 

 

(EP7-1)

F18MYziW5-Y60Z8-xxTImPPtX7-ivl8IwZ47CJJ7

 

 

(EP7-2)

mmr173MuY4k3QB64ZMd6eDD00mSdqYG6fDIE6xjK

 

IRzvN-hh_W3SYbhy_Rm8nHPqRyGU9PyXbDkGEGNF

 

 

In EP15, it seems that Ji-an observed the drinking etiquette when she is facing Hugye Ahjussis ......(?)

 

 

(EP15)

k8O0ABUEHKlpLwe-ljpq4w51_wjKh1hzsFB-YYHx

 

↑ One of Ji-an's hands was injured. Otherwise, I guess she would have used both hands to hold the cup.

 

 

My thoughts: Ji-an probably acts like this to most people, but she still knows etiquette. And people who use age class to her would think she is impolite if she didn't observe etiquette. But Dong-hoon didn't care about Ji-an using this way to interact with him. So I think when Dong-hoon and Ji-an treat each other, they use an equal way without considering the age gap. :rubchin:

 

By the way, when I realized this, I thought it seemed like Park Dong-hoon really didn't care much about what Lee Ji-an did in front of him. After all, Koreans should care a lot about such etiquette in their daily life, I guess (?)
 

So to Park Dong-hoon, he just wants this stray cat can show up regularly to have dinner with him, that's it. :1646639759_ezgif.com-gif-maker(1):

 

 

AL9nZEVEnAP7Ii34CiNfw5rNBaVfIQ3kY9w-PZog

 

"Where is my stray cat? It's dinner time..."

 

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On 11/3/2022 at 12:11 AM, the_sweetroad said:

It's so interesting how the director focuses in on DH's faces and body language so often. As @actionscript says DH must be restrained pre-time skip in order to maintain his integrity, but his emotions and his feelings leak out all over the place, as someone else has put it :). He just can't help it. And the director makes sure to include those emotions and do close-ups of them.

 

Yes, exactly! The director focusing on DH’s facial expressions and body language means he wanted to emphasize DH’s restraint. And that implies there is something inside DH that he is restraining. If there is nothing in there, what is there to restrain?

 

There are some who interpret those facial expressions and body language of DH as natural reactions of a good and decent man worrying about the welfare of another person in trouble. Sigh... 

 

If that is the case, I don't think the director needed to pepper practically the whole second half of the drama with those close-ups of DH just to rub into our faces how good a person he is. :D

 

 

 

On 11/7/2022 at 7:25 PM, YukawaCattle said:

We all recognize that "if A doesn't happen before the last shot of MM, we can't say A exists in MM," right?

 

For example, A is "Park Dong-hoon and Kang Yoon-hee divorce." If Park Dong-hoon did not divorce before the last shot of MM, we can't say that Park Dong-hoon will definitely divorce.

 

Or A is "Park Dong-hoon and Lee Ji-an are together." If Park Dong-hoon did not get together with Lee Ji-an before the last shot of MM, we could not say that Park Dong-hoon would definitely get together with Lee Ji-an.

 

I guess we all agree that this logic is objective, and most of us obey this standard. That's why lots of people say MM is an open ending story.

 

I’m not sure about this though. I’m sure I’ve encountered a lot of story lines in Hollywood movies where certain conclusions (which may or may not refer to the main conflict of the story) were just implied and not explicitly shown. I can’t recall a good example now though, but I’m sure I’ve encountered them.

  

And that’s why if you’d recall in the matrix, I have listed options that said “It was hinted that DH and JA will get together” and another that stated “It was implied that DH and JA will get together.” I used the terms “hinted” and “implied” because these are not explicitly shown in the story. How that relates to whether MM will be categorized as an open ending or not,  I don’t know.

 

I recall you posting a link before that says an ending is considered closed if it delivers an emotionally satisfactory ending to the viewers. So that means an ending being closed or not depends on the emotions it stirs to the viewers. And since the viewers’ emotions are unique, I guess endings can generally be subjective in nature? :sweatingbullets:

 

As for me, I am definitely "emotionally-satisfied" to see that DH and JA could finally acknowledge their true feelings for each other, and would now be able to deal with it freely. :wub:

 

 

On 11/7/2022 at 7:25 PM, YukawaCattle said:

Now the same. If Park Dong-hoon didn't get divorced and didn't get together with Lee Ji-an before the last shot of MM, then Park Dong-hoon's character development arc can't be considered accomplished in MM. The reason is that Park Dong-hoon's character development arc involves "divorcing Yoon-hee" and "getting together with Ji-an."

 

I'm not trying to refute your theory. On the contrary, I think this is the right. So I think it would be strange if MM ends without the character development arc of the male protagonist being realized.

 

So according to your theory, Park Dong-hoon must have already divorced Kang Yoon-hee and gotten together with Lee Ji-an before the last shot of MM. Otherwise, MM would have ended without Park Dong-hoon's character development arc being fully realized.

 

I don't think the scriptwriter and director will do such a strange thing with their profession. So your theory makes me even more convinced that Dong-hoon and Ji-an were already together when they shook hands. Only then will Park Dong-hoon's character development arc be fully realized before the end of MM.

 

Recall how I wrote it in the article: “DH, now a free man, would finally be able to follow his heart and pursue Ji An freely.” It would be consistent with his arc to pursue JA, but that doesn’t automatically mean JA will respond positively and that they will be together. DH’s arc covers only his own feelings and actions. DH pursuing JA completes his arc, regardless if JA accepts or not. The point is DH being able to finally act on his heart’s desires after having freed himself from his life sentence of earnestness.

 

But back to your point, I agree that DH and JA getting together is the entire story’s arc, though not DH’s per se, if events from what was shown are to be extrapolated into the future…

  

Also DH and JA shaking hands is not the last shot of MM. The voice-over of DH and JA talking occurred after that, which for me provided a bigger hint of DH and JA getting together in some future time than the handshake scene. :partyblob:

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19 hours ago, actionscript said:

I’m not sure about this though. I’m sure I’ve encountered a lot of story lines in Hollywood movies where certain conclusions (which may or may not refer to the main conflict of the story) were just implied and not explicitly shown. I can’t recall a good example now though, but I’m sure I’ve encountered them.

  

And that’s why if you’d recall in the matrix, I have listed options that said “It was hinted that DH and JA will get together” and another that stated “It was implied that DH and JA will get together.” I used the terms “hinted” and “implied” because these are not explicitly shown in the story. How that relates to whether MM will be categorized as an open ending or not,  I don’t know.

 

As I remember, your idea is based on the character development arc in K-drama.

 

And my understanding is that because you think K-dramas usually would finish the character development arc, you based on this to comment on the Podcast host's conclusions about MM.

 

But if the author didn't clearly show the character development arc already complete in a drama, can "the audience's own imagination" count as it already complete in MM?

 

I guess there should be an objective standard to say "it is already finished." For example, "it complete in which shot."

 

19 hours ago, actionscript said:

I recall you posting a link before that says an ending is considered closed if it delivers an emotionally satisfactory ending to the viewers. So that means an ending being closed or not depends on the emotions it stirs to the viewers. And since the viewers’ emotions are unique, I guess endings can generally be subjective in nature? :sweatingbullets:

 

As for me, I am definitely "emotionally-satisfied" to see that DH and JA could finally acknowledge their true feelings for each other, and would now be able to deal with it freely. :wub:

 

Apparently, most people's standards are not like this. That's why there was a controversy when I posted that article at the time. And I actually know that the author is talking about the usual non-controversial situation.

 

And I think the fact is the screenwriter and director have finished writing the ending of MM, that is, the shaking hands scene is the moment Dong-hoon and Ji-an have been together, but the audience can choose whether to accept this setting.

 

(The last conversation is a distraction thing that the writer and director want to induce the audience to think about what happens afterward to pretend there is no answer. Actually, they have already written the answer during DongAn's handshake.)

 

19 hours ago, actionscript said:

Recall how I wrote it in the article: “DH, now a free man, would finally be able to follow his heart and pursue Ji An freely.” It would be consistent with his arc to pursue JA, but that doesn’t automatically mean JA will respond positively and that they will be together. DH’s arc covers only his own feelings and actions. DH pursuing JA completes his arc, regardless if JA accepts or not. The point is DH being able to finally act on his heart’s desires after having freed himself from his life sentence of earnestness.

 

But back to your point, I agree that DH and JA getting together is the entire story’s arc, though not DH’s per se, if events from what was shown are to be extrapolated into the future…

 

I forget to say, I think "accepting Ji-an's pursuing" is Dong-hoon's character development arc.

 

You may assume Ji-an might not accept Dong-hoon's pursuing, but what MM has been presenting is Ji-an's constant pursuing of Dong-hoon. Before the time skip, Park Dong-hoon's restraint is to restrain Lee Ji-an's pursuing of him, or he will have an affair. After the time skip, Ji-an said she wanted to have dinner with Dong-hoon, and I think we all know what that means. That's why we shippers expect Dong-hoon to have dinner with Ji-an in the end, because we know Ji-an can pursue Dong-hoon through eating and drinking with him.

 

I mean, Dong-hoon and Ji-an pursuing each other in MM will not be unidirectional, and it is obvious that the only thing that remains at the end of the story is "Whether Dong-hoon will accept Ji-an's pursuing." But this is the same as "Whether Dong-hoon and Ji-an are together in the end."

 

By the way, Park Hae-young already refutes the "play hard to get" idea in MLN. "Play hard to get" is not Park Hae-young's value system of love.

 

19 hours ago, actionscript said:

Also DH and JA shaking hands is not the last shot of MM. The voice-over of DH and JA talking occurred after that, which for me provided a bigger hint of DH and JA getting together in some future time than the handshake scene. :partyblob:

 

This is the last shot of MM. What you said was "there is still a voice." The voice is indeed a hint, but it doesn't seem to say anything other than that the two are very close. Otherwise, Korean shippers should not need to study MM as actively as we do. And I remember that that line also shows up on Lee Sun-kyun's signature in the Blu-ray director's version. It seems that he is trying to pretend that the phrase does not mean anything else. After all, he said that Dong-hoon's feelings for Ji-an are that of an adult caring for a child, not a lover's love.
 

And what I want to explore now is not someone's personal feelings but "whether the audience's imagination can be considered a part of the character development arc" because we obviously can't see the subsequent shots. :rubchin:

 

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7 hours ago, YukawaCattle said:

I forget to say, I think "accepting Ji-an's pursuing" is Dong-hoon's character development arc.

 

You may assume Ji-an might not accept Dong-hoon's pursuing, but what MM has been presenting is Ji-an's constant pursuing of Dong-hoon. Before the time skip, Park Dong-hoon's restraint is to restrain Lee Ji-an's pursuing of him, or he will have an affair. After the time skip, Ji-an said she wanted to have dinner with Dong-hoon, and I think we all know what that means. That's why we shippers expect Dong-hoon to have dinner with Ji-an in the end, because we know Ji-an can pursue Dong-hoon through eating and drinking with him.

 

I mean, Dong-hoon and Ji-an pursuing each other in MM will not be unidirectional, and it is obvious that the only thing that remains at the end of the story is "Whether Dong-hoon will accept Ji-an's pursuing." But this is the same as "Whether Dong-hoon and Ji-an are together in the end."

 

I totally agree with what you said here. In my previous post, I was just being technical in putting things in the perspective of DH’s arc. And it is in combining DH’s and JA’s arcs do we get to infer that they needed to be together so that both their arcs can achieve a satisfactory conclusion.

 

JA’s unrequited love for DH is, for me, an unfinished business in the story. It Is an important plot point that needed to be resolved, esp. since the story has a Jung Hee character that portrayed how unrequited feelings that went unresolved can be tragic. And that for me is one purpose of Jung Hee’s character – it made JA’s unrequited feelings an important plot point that needed resolution. It would have been justifiable to brush aside had there been no Jung Hee in the story.

 

Post-time skip, we see JA in a much better place. She has friends and has a good job. But has she moved on from her feelings for DH? For me, the scene where she is passing by Saman and looking up at the building is one important hint that she has not. And that was further validated when she saw DH in the coffee shop. Her facial expressions and body language in the window scene says it all. The director really had a knack for using facial expressions and body language to communicate. Problem with that is that it can indeed be very subjective, and people would indeed read what they wanted to see from the scene. :sweatingbullets:

 

After seeing how time skips are often used in other movies, I don’t think MM deviated from the trope. We see our two protagonists in much happier places some time in the future after having survived and resolved the dark chapters in their lives. But there’s one more item missing in their separate lives, and the show made sure to tick off that one last item before the cameras stopped rolling.

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On 11/20/2022 at 4:51 PM, actionscript said:

If that is the case, I don't think the director needed to pepper practically the whole second half of the drama with those close-ups of DH just to rub into our faces how good a person he is. :D

 

There are a lot of close-ups of DH, to the delight of many. :lol:

 

On 11/20/2022 at 4:51 PM, actionscript said:

Recall how I wrote it in the article: “DH, now a free man, would finally be able to follow his heart and pursue Ji An freely.” It would be consistent with his arc to pursue JA, but that doesn’t automatically mean JA will respond positively and that they will be together. DH’s arc covers only his own feelings and actions. DH pursuing JA completes his arc, regardless if JA accepts or not. The point is DH being able to finally act on his heart’s desires after having freed himself from his life sentence of earnestness.

 

On 11/20/2022 at 4:51 PM, actionscript said:

Also DH and JA shaking hands is not the last shot of MM. The voice-over of DH and JA talking occurred after that, which for me provided a bigger hint of DH and JA getting together in some future time than the handshake scene. 

 

Jumping in to the party. :)

 

This is how I see the last scene as well...Dong Hoon, in asking to shake Ji An's hand and in all of his mannerisms and happiness surrounding that, is signalling to JA that he's now a free man and that he's interested in her. He has been thinking of her in her absence, after all. JA responds positively and asks him to dinner, and when he says yes, he responds positively to her own pursuing of a future meeting. But whether or not they take that next step and actually become a couple in the future is never shown, only hinted at/ implied in the very last line when he calls her only "Ji An".

 

On 11/7/2022 at 12:25 PM, YukawaCattle said:

So your theory makes me even more convinced that Dong-hoon and Ji-an were already together when they shook hands.

 

I've been thinking about this ever since you first wrote about it a while ago. Are you saying that they become a couple when they shake hands and have their interchange? I'm having a hard time seeing this.... Meeting each other at the cafe is so sudden and unexpected for both of them, and I think when they shake hands and converse they're sending signals to each other, as mentioned above. But to actually become a couple usually requires communication and clarity, and a mutual decision that you'll be dating or courting. I.e. it usually it happens later in the process.

 

I think what's presented to us onscreen is the re-starting of their friendship and connection, and we finally get to see Dong Hoon openly express his interest in her (woo hoo!). But I don't think we can say they definitively "get together" when they shake hands - that seems like a stretch. Rather they seem to tentatively feel each other out upon seeing each other for the first time after a long time.

 

12 hours ago, YukawaCattle said:

I forget to say, I think "accepting Ji-an's pursuing" is Dong-hoon's character development arc.

 

You may assume Ji-an might not accept Dong-hoon's pursuing, but what MM has been presenting is Ji-an's constant pursuing of Dong-hoon. Before the time skip, Park Dong-hoon's restraint is to restrain Lee Ji-an's pursuing of him, or he will have an affair. After the time skip, Ji-an said she wanted to have dinner with Dong-hoon, and I think we all know what that means. That's why we shippers expect Dong-hoon to have dinner with Ji-an in the end, because we know Ji-an can pursue Dong-hoon through eating and drinking with him.

 

I mean, Dong-hoon and Ji-an pursuing each other in MM will not be unidirectional, and it is obvious that the only thing that remains at the end of the story is "Whether Dong-hoon will accept Ji-an's pursuing." But this is the same as "Whether Dong-hoon and Ji-an are together in the end."

 

I do agree with you here, that DH will accept JA's pursuing, and I agree with you @actionscript that DH pursuing JA will actualize his arc. It won't be unidirectional, and DH being more assertive and actively pursuing JA will be an important step for him. In my mind I don't think he will just passively accept JA's pursuing, but now that he's seen her again he will take an active role in courting her. That will be part of his waking up! :)

 

12 hours ago, YukawaCattle said:

The last conversation is a distraction thing that the writer and director want to induce the audience to think about what happens afterward to pretend there is no answer.

 

That's interesting that people find it a distraction. :o I always think of the photos on DH's office desk as a distraction, but the fact that DH called her "Ji An" instead of his usual "Ji An-ssi" was one of the biggest confirmations for me that Dh and JA were on more intimate terms. :wub:

 

After all, if they're close enough for him to call her that, and we knew that he found her pretty and was restraining himself, and we've had all these hints throughout the show that YH and DH would get a divorce and make him a free man, then him calling her JA because they were together romantically would just make sense.

 

On 11/20/2022 at 4:51 PM, actionscript said:

I’m sure I’ve encountered a lot of story lines in Hollywood movies where certain conclusions (which may or may not refer to the main conflict of the story) were just implied and not explicitly shown. I can’t recall a good example now though, but I’m sure I’ve encountered them.

 

The Game and The Truman Show. :lol:

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17 hours ago, actionscript said:

I totally agree with what you said here. In my previous post, I was just being technical in putting things in the perspective of DH’s arc. And it is in combining DH’s and JA’s arcs do we get to infer that they needed to be together so that both their arcs can achieve a satisfactory conclusion.

 

I understand your idea. I just think, based on the work presentation, what Dong-hoon only needs to do in the end is a matter of accepting Ji-an's love. That is, for me, "pursue" and "accept" are actually the same verb in MM. I guess the author would not intentionally make such a clear distinction between "pursue" and "accept" in MM because the character interaction is basically not one-way.

 

17 hours ago, actionscript said:

JA’s unrequited love for DH is, for me, an unfinished business in the story. It Is an important plot point that needed to be resolved, esp. since the story has a Jung Hee character that portrayed how unrequited feelings that went unresolved can be tragic. And that for me is one purpose of Jung Hee’s character – it made JA’s unrequited feelings an important plot point that needed resolution. It would have been justifiable to brush aside had there been no Jung Hee in the story.

 

I think "whether Ji-an has changed her heart" is the same as "whether Dong-hoon has changed his heart." When we want to discuss one, we will inevitably need to discuss the other. And one interesting thing is that I remember we were more inclined to discuss whether Ji-an had changed her heart, but there was not much doubt about whether Dong-hoon had changed his heart. Why is that (?)

 

17 hours ago, actionscript said:

Post-time skip, we see JA in a much better place. She has friends and has a good job. But has she moved on from her feelings for DH? For me, the scene where she is passing by Saman and looking up at the building is one important hint that she has not. And that was further validated when she saw DH in the coffee shop. Her facial expressions and body language in the window scene says it all. The director really had a knack for using facial expressions and body language to communicate. Problem with that is that it can indeed be very subjective, and people would indeed read what they wanted to see from the scene. :sweatingbullets:

 

Regarding "subjectively," I think we also interpret "Park Dong-hoon likes Lee Ji-an" subjectively. After all, the director and the actor already denied this. Kim Won-seok said that MM had no love during the press conference and that Lee Sun-kyun said Park Dong-hoon's feelings for Lee Ji-an were just those of an adult taking care of a child. But even though the author group denied it, we still subjectively interpreted it from the elements of the work and said that Park Dong-hoon loved Lee Ji-an very much. That is, in fact, many of the methods we use are "interpretations."

 

So maybe we need to have a little consensus between subjective and objective. For example, an interpretation that can reasonably explain more details of the work is objective, something like that...(?)

 

(So I always think that Thomas' interpretation is already enough to support the view that "Ji-an has not changed her heart." Because his analysis, I think, objectively speaking, is still quite close to the elements of the story and detailed enough. The "interpretation" itself is already a kind of technique. Just only because there is more than one answer, we had to compare "which one is more reasonable.")
 

------

 

10 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

But to actually become a couple usually requires communication and clarity, and a mutual decision that you'll be dating or courting. I.e. it usually it happens later in the process.

 

I think what you mentioned is a bit outside of the drama system. The drama is based on Park Hae-young's value system of love, who believes that there is no need to have steps in a relationship between a man and a woman. She thinks when it starts, it already starts. When it ends, it already ends. She already explained her value system in AOHY, MLN, and also MM EP12. So the moment Dong-hoon accepts Ji-an's pursuit, it can be considered to be their first day. After all, Dong-hoon is not a scum.

 

I think it's more reasonable to recognize that Ji-an is pursuing Dong-hoon when she says she wants to buy him dinner. After all, she knows what it means. And this explains why Dong-hoon is "so happy that he wants to cry" when he hears Ji-an wants to buy him dinner. It is because he understood Ji-an's meaning that he reacted this way.

 

MM has its own value system of love. So I think we should forget the system of traditional romance drama to understand the MM system. The design of the love line of this show is already not a very general situation.

 

But indeed, I already foresaw the general reaction would be like this when I shared this idea here. After all, when I first realized this, I also felt unbelievable at that time.

 

10 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

That's interesting that people find it a distraction. :o I always think of the photos on DH's office desk as a distraction, but the fact that DH called her "Ji An" instead of his usual "Ji An-ssi" was one of the biggest confirmations for me that Dh and JA were on more intimate terms. :wub:

 

After all, if they're close enough for him to call her that, and we knew that he found her pretty and was restraining himself, and we've had all these hints throughout the show that YH and DH would get a divorce and make him a free man, then him calling her JA because they were together romantically would just make sense.

 

I visit a Korean forum, and they don't seem to have too decisive feelings about it. That's why they still keep asking the director if Dong-hoon is divorced. (Later, the director replied that Dong-hoon might not have divorced but was maintaining the status quo. The photos don't mean anything, and many photos are still in the home.)

 

Because "how to call other's name" is their daily life thing, it will be a controversial point if it is highly suggestive. Korean people will mention it as often as the photos. But I don't see that happening.

 

I mean, this kind of thing involves cultural barriers, even the Koreans don’t have a consensus, but we absolutely say that this is a big hint, it seems...
 
But this may also be a problem with google translation (?) 

 

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On 11/22/2022 at 6:24 AM, the_sweetroad said:

But to actually become a couple usually requires communication and clarity, and a mutual decision that you'll be dating or courting. I.e. it usually it happens later in the process.

 

By the way, as I mentioned before, this kind of reaction from the audience is the same as Sang-hoon's reaction. At that time, Sang-hoon also felt that Ki-hoon and Yu-ra must experience some steps to be considered they already together.

 


lc_u87a2u5e55u5febu7167-2022-10-28-u4e0b

 


It seems like the director and the writer already expected the audience's this kind of reaction, so they give Jung-hee some dialogues to reply to this confusion to claim that this is MM's unique system.

 


nons_ja_84.jpg?w=664&h=415

 


Sang-hoon: Why don't they take steps in having a relationship?

 

Jung-hee: What's that? There are no steps in a relationship.

 

Sang-hoon: ?

 

Jung-hee: Only the rookies take steps. Men and women start and end in one shot.

 

Sang-hoon: Oh... That's why...

 

Jung-hee: What? Finish the sentence.

 

Sang-hoon: Never mind. I'm sorry.

 

Jung-hee: I think I already knew it would end like this. But I feel like... this isn't going to be the end.

 

Sang-hoon: ...

 

Jung-hee: I'm just saying.

 

 

 

I didn't believe this until I realized that I had the same reaction as Sang-hoon. Otherwise, I wouldn't believe such a thing would happen.

 

Anyway, using a computer as an analogy, the general Korean drama is a Windows system, but MM is a Macintosh (?)

 

----

 

And I'd like to talk about what I'm confused about in the ending.

 

If Dong-hoon still not yet together with Ji-an when they shook hands, then the scriptwriter and director actually made the following settings for MM's ending:

 

 

KWS & PHY: Please finish this horse.

AL9nZEXSRQwb3sT1nzGNswsKqEBSlLlJmSIuqz63

 


If this happens, MM's ending actually has many possibilities because it has too much space for interpretation.

 

For example, the last dialogue. There is a very common situation that interprets it as telepathic communication.

 

Can we say telepathic communication is wrong? I guess we can not do this because it's also reasonable. This is a drama, after all. In this case, there is no other information.

 

And regarding interpreting this dialogue as a voice from the future, actually, there is also some different discussion.

 

One is, is Dong-hoon's "Ji-an" means they are more familiar? Another is maybe Dong-hoon just wants to mention "Ji-an" this words because we all know "Ji-an" means "reach peace." If this is the case, then it means nothing, but this possibility also lots of people agree.

 

I see that the Korean discussion of this dialogue is more about what Ji-an's two "yes" means. In fact, how Dong-hoon is called Ji-an seems to be something that is often ignored. I don't know why, but it shows that they do not yet have a consensus on the matter. This kind of thing in their daily life should be more easily to have controversial as the photos did, if how Dong-hoon called Ji-an is really important. But it didn't happen, which means this thing actually is not suggestive enough. But maybe it is that I didn't see the relevant article.

 

In such a situation with multiple possibilities, MM's ending doesn't suggest something absolutely for us. It is because we believe the voice is from the future, and we believe that this dialogue means DongAn are more close (we have subconsciously assumed two things on our own), so we think MM is suggesting something to us in the end. But actually, this thing has many interpretation spaces. Kim Won-seok and Park Hae-young put this space a little bit too large. The "suggested information" that everyone gets may be very different.

 

In such a situation with multiple possibilities, I think it can not count that the screenwriter and director have already finished writing Dong-hoon's character development arc because the interpretation space is too large. It is because we already choose one way to interpret, and that's why we think MM give us some suggestions for Dong-hoon's situation. But for other people, the situation may be different. (And what it means "they are more close"? Some people say that they only have reached equality.)

 

Simply put, the interpretation of "what that voice means" is basically subjective. Even people though it is a voice from the future, and even though it makes people think that they become closer, the information that can be deduced in the end varies from person to person. Not to mention that some people don't interpret that voice in this way. I've always thought this approach strange if it really happens because it's the same as the writers and directors allowing the audience to make up their own values and character development arc for this drama. But I think a TV drama should have its own values and character development arc want to present. That's why I think the final sound is a distraction thing. That is, the director and the writer have finished writing, just pretending not to. Otherwise, that voice does not imply anything absolutely to the audience. The interpretation space is a bit large. Sometimes, there is no way to get information about the character development arc.

 

-

 

Horse picture information: General Research Division, The New York Public Library. (1655). Monoceros Unicornu, Einhorn; Capricorns Marin, Meer Steinbock; Monoceros Unicornu, Einhorn. Retrieved from https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/510d47dd-cf09-a3d9-e040-e00a18064a99
 

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On 11/18/2022 at 7:52 AM, YukawaCattle said:

Can I say " 'MM is a romantic drama' is the Korean government's position" based on these relationships :tounge_xd:???


Good to know, thanks for this information! :D

LOL I was thinking the same, like the Korean government is a shipper?? :1646639759_ezgif.com-gif-maker(1):

 

On 11/18/2022 at 7:52 AM, YukawaCattle said:

“If there is fire, it means there is love between two people."


Also, I don't know if this enters in this situation, but Dong Hoon and Ji An's encounters at the bar, we could see the candles between them.

 

On 11/18/2022 at 7:52 AM, YukawaCattle said:

Based on the above, I choose your <loveless but with complicity> marriage.


True, I just get confused sometimes because Yoon Hee seems to be hurt everytime she realises that she is not his top priority. Maybe this comes from an urge to be noticed. I mean, not from everyone, but male attention. Or the urge to win, because as a lawyer/as a competitive person, she can be competitive. She can be competing with the other girls from college, and even when she won, she was competing with herself.

 

On 11/18/2022 at 7:52 AM, YukawaCattle said:

I just remember that they failed in the end. LOL.


Lol that's ok! I also think that the fact that they've tried and failed, it's also a "sign".
 

On 11/18/2022 at 7:52 AM, YukawaCattle said:

it's impossible to go back to the original relationship after being hurt."


But this can't be applied to Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee as well?

 

On 11/18/2022 at 7:52 AM, YukawaCattle said:

By the way, to me, Yeom Mi-jeong+Mr. Gu in MLN and Park Dong-hoon+Lee Ji-an in MM are equivalent. But Yeom Mi-jeong corresponds to Park Dong-hoon, while Mr. Gu corresponds to Lee Ji-an. 


Oh yes, I made this same connection as I was watching My Liberation Notes.

About the stray cats and dogs lmao is a good information, I couldn't link these two things together while watching MLN. The dog plot was a bit blurry for me :sweatingbullets: 
 

On 11/18/2022 at 6:41 PM, the_sweetroad said:

Nice insight! You're right - Dong Hoon had to go with the flow and couldn't force bringing back Ji An into his orbit. He had to bear the weight (absorb the shocks) and be flexible, and wait. And when he did see her in Choon Dae's shack, he still had to be gentle with her. He came in hot with Kwang Il; he definitely couldn't come in hot with her, otherwise she would withdraw again like a stray cat.


Not only he could lose sight of Ji An again, but also he could fail his promotion attempt. Many things were at stake at that time :sweatingbullets:

--

@the_sweetroad @YukawaCattle wow so many likes from both of you, thanks :D I guess 22 comments were enough :partyblob:
 

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13 hours ago, dongans said:

Good to know, thanks for this information! :D

 

In fact, when I saw this, I thought that this should be how the Korean film industry classifies MM. Otherwise, this author would not create his/her own new terms. After all, this is the page to introduce important Korean actors to foreigners. Because it feels like a formal page, I assume the author would not write it randomly, so this information should be available for us to reference.
 

13 hours ago, dongans said:

LOL I was thinking the same, like the Korean government is a shipper?? :1646639759_ezgif.com-gif-maker(1):

 

Big shipper!!!

Cool!!! :1646639759_ezgif.com-gif-maker(1): :1646639759_ezgif.com-gif-maker(1): :1646639759_ezgif.com-gif-maker(1):

 

13 hours ago, dongans said:

Also, I don't know if this enters in this situation, but Dong Hoon and Ji An's encounters at the bar, we could see the candles between them.

 

Oh yes. I've thought about something like that. In the seventh episode, even has the shot of Dong-hoon turns on the gas stove.
 

 

(EP7)

wauGJic3aEmOizPfJT8H6fRcYrIjnAicTIYt7Jm8

 

 

I guess this should be the same design as the gas stove shows up in EP1 Yoon-hee and EP16 Omma's shot, but I don't know how to explain it yet (?) Dong-hoon and Ji-an's love fires are officially lit (?)
 

13 hours ago, dongans said:

True, I just get confused sometimes because Yoon Hee seems to be hurt everytime she realises that she is not his top priority. Maybe this comes from an urge to be noticed. I mean, not from everyone, but male attention. Or the urge to win, because as a lawyer/as a competitive person, she can be competitive. She can be competing with the other girls from college, and ever she won, she was competing with herself.

 

Indeed, Yoon-hee is a person who wants to succeed in every aspect, whether it is a career or love. And the ranking in her man's heart, as you mentioned. She has a strong desire to win in this regard. She is very nervous when she senses that someone is threatening her position in her men's hearts, whether that man it's Dong-hoon or Jun-young. When she saw Jun-young walking out of the room after receiving a phone call from Ji-an, she asked Jun-young, "Is it a woman or a man." Then when she heard Jun-young bad mouth her, when she broke up with him, she felt ashamed of herself (And then sick).

 

Based on such a character's mentality, when Yoon-hee saw Dong-hoon's obsession with Ji-an, we probably knew she would give up in the end.

 

By the way, I think it's interesting to explore "what kind of women Park Dong-hoon is interested in" based on Yoon-hee and Ji-an's personalities.

 

In terms of appearance, she should be pretty, thin, and have long hair (?)

 

In terms of personality, Dong-hoon seems to like independent women. He seems to like the feeling of being unpredictable. Both Yoon-hee and Ji-an have their own ideas, and sometimes they are very mean to Dong-hoon (?)

 

13 hours ago, dongans said:

Lol that's ok! I also think that the fact that they've tried and failed, it's also a "sign".

 

Hmmm... :rubchin:

 

I've been thinking about this for a while. Maybe it also wants to present an "amicable breakup" situation.

 

Chang-hee and Ye-rin broke up in an unfriendly way at the beginning. But since this is not Park Hae-young's value, I was puzzled when I saw it. It's no wonder Chang-hee and Ye-rin ended up having this plot because Park Hae-young wants to let them amicable breakup so that they can greet each other on the road in the future with a non-awkward mood in mind.

 

13 hours ago, dongans said:

But this can't be applied to Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee as well?

 

Oh, Yes. It can. I thought you were talking about "worship" in your last topic, so...
 

13 hours ago, dongans said:

About the stray cats and dogs lmao is a good information, I couldn't link these two things together while watching MLN. The dog plot was a bit blurry for me :sweatingbullets: 

 

It's okay. I also read other people's interpretations to know this thing. :sweatingbullets:

 

13 hours ago, dongans said:

@the_sweetroad @YukawaCattle wow so many likes from both of you, thanks :D I guess 22 comments were enough :partyblob:

 

:partyblob: :partyblob: :partyblob:

:partyblob: :partyblob: :partyblob:

:partyblob: :partyblob: :partyblob:

 

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I personally think MM also has another strange thing. That is, the usage of the story within the story. I am trying to figure out the plot in MM that Ki-hoon's script corresponds to.

 

My understanding of the story within the story is that it is usually used to foreshadow a certain plot. That is to say, it will not be used to hint at something. On the contrary, the whole drama will have a section of the actual plot that it corresponds to.

 

Spoiler

[Examples]

 

In CLOY, the TV series that the supporting character watch foreshadows the ending of the reunion of the male and female characters and the male supporting character's death.

 

 

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8jVKES-zgjNigx4FH1ZwcsxCf3YcFfihUCr2nk2g

 

script_u87a2u5e55u5febu7167-2022-05-19-u

 

 

wtuc0pQfFBNBD00i6m0tji1TAkuKzlnCMuOZ33EU

 

uiioXFBc2XIIK-e9pBGOloVb2DdV-5NR7GNkDH4L

 

script_u87a2u5e55u5febu7167-2022-05-19-u

 


In Squid Game, horse racing is used to predict the process of the game and its outcome.

 

 

script_u87a2u5e55u5febu7167-2022-05-18-u

 

_t8GlIJbPmuEBX68HnwzRHnyZTpG8Z03edRNXWKB

 


In Vincenzo, the TV series that the supporting character watch foreshadows he will get shot by his brother.

 


3Gb5JLL0qMBviMUlGtvWoxhtMn4kfHwctTrFcmwq

 

t07BxKQcUejQus_JApEvEkpoPyIjMQ8T91W-g72J

 

OWrHF6aS7JPbz4AHTvRAbFMj4yB7K1QcP17eE-LN

 

leS-QPtiZsuWY6M-uzucnLSBE619PMECFrsz-Quc

 


In MLN, the story told by Yeom Chang-hee corresponds to the plot in which Ji Hyun-ah's boyfriend is going to die.

 


mI_ecmTEqjxd6jILTKt9LhfoRfr5KHYyv0EwPg6f

 

PQoAE1TGAka2bkMNAyhswPwuiMDCOOY5tGrPlGWe

 

JmVbjcIRddUh0HkXQM0rCqIb9pfTekuq9BK_d7KZ

 

WqOVbXikTllpn9bRgZIwIrA0Pr40YZVVLn0d7dEm

 


"The story that appears in the drama will correspond to a plot that the audience can actually see in that drama" seems to be the way the story within a story is always used. That is to say, the story within a story does not use to imply a certain kind of unseen plot. There must be an actual plot in the drama that can correspond to this story. (←Professionals are welcome to refute my understanding.)

 

EP1 Sang-Hoon script is the opposite foreshadowing of the storyline of MM's EP1 to approximately EP13. But what is the actual plot of the last five minutes of MM that EP16 Ki-hoon's script foreshadowed?

 

The content of Ki-hoon's script was a romantic comedy, and Ki-hoon was writing the movie's first scene at the time. It is reasonable to guess that the "first scene" is to foreshadow the last five minutes of MM's plot. So it is reasonable to say that a love-related plot should appear in the last five minutes of MM.

 

So if Dong-hoon and Ji-an were still not together when they handshake, I wonder what actual scenes could correspond to Ki-hoon's script. After all, Ki-hoon's script is a love story, and the story within a story does not use to imply a certain kind of unseen plot. There must be an actual plot in the drama that can correspond to this story.

 

If it is said that the usage of Ki-hoon's script simply foreshadows the reunite between Ji-an and Dong-hoon, I think it is a waste of setting Ki-hoon's script. I think this kind of plot does not need to foreshadow particularly, especially using a love story to foreshadow it.

 

-

 

By the way, I don't know if you guys have any interest in this topic. But I am personally very interested in exploring the nature of the MM's ending. It clearly looks like you can get a clear answer, but why is the classification is open ending? I still don't know how to understand it.

 

Don't you think this is strange? The answer is clearly there, but it is open.

 

Another question is, if people are free to choose the ending of MM, then MM's structure is not fixed by the author, right? Because each kind of ending will give MM a different value system, and character development direction. I also don't know how to understand this because I think authors should give their drama a fixed value system and character development.

 

My understanding is that, generally speaking, even though an open ending story will let the audience choose the ending they like, the structure is still closed. In other words, when the story structure is closed in some way, the audience can choose what is left.

 

But MM is not like that. The authors say MM gives the audience a choice of value system and character development, which means the audience is already allowed to choose the whole story structure on their own. I think this is strange.

 

So I always thought there should be something decisive to seal the end of the story structure. Now it depends on whether the final sound or the handshake can seal the structure of the tail of this story. I personally chose the handshake scene because I could see the image, and there are parallel narratives and authorial values that can apply to this scene.

 

I know there is an article on GMS that analyzes the final sound. But if the last voice was really suggestive enough to say that Dong-hoon was pursuing Ji-an or was with Ji-an, I think Korean netizens wouldn't keep asking if Dong-hoon had gotten a divorce. They would be very certain that Dong-hoon has divorced and even use this thing to say so. But it always seems that their situation is similar to ours, still confused by the photos. So I guess the final sound doesn't seem to have much information to work with.


For those of you who are not interested in this topic, I'm sorry to have disturbed you. But I personally would love to know what the classification of MM's ending really is.

 

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Later, I think the essence of MM's ending is still open. But essentially, its openness only includes "What's the love story between Park Dong-hoon and Lee Ji-an look like after they start dating?" Just like Ki-hoon still needs to finish writing his romantic comedy script, it is "to be continued," the love story between Dong-hoon and Ji-an is also "to be continued." And the only thing that will not affect the whole drama's value system and Park Dong-hoon's character development arc is only this thing. That is to say, only this question will not affect MM's overall structure. So, in fact, the author actually only designed this incident is open. The others are all pretend open.

 

But I think MM's ending design is still a very unusual situation because you have to solve those "pretending to be open" first. After solving the puzzle, the audience still gets the open state. That is to say, MM has two layers. One layer has the answer, and one layer does not. My understanding is that when authors design an open ending story, they usually will design only one layer and then see if they want to design it with answers or no answers. So the more common situation is that the audience has no more questions to ask after the puzzle.

 

After knowing this, I think the essence of MM's ending is very interesting, and the director and screenwriter are very professional.

 

-----

 

-EDIT-

 

Oh. Because when I brought up this topic last time, someone said that being too sure about this kind of thing might make non-shippers uncomfortable, so I would like to translate the director's and the actor's words here for non-shippers particularly.

 

I think when I attach the author's words here, I already can free to assert my personal idea here. After all, nothing I advocate can be more convincing than what the author says. This should be fair enough, right (?)

 

-

 

5UTpxn3sI96BGTkOtVpEzg-uL1clLEUTHRpycg8B

 

 

Q: There is no family photo of the three of them together on the table. Why?

 

KWS: Actually... it's not necessary to have a family photo on Dong-hoon's desk, isn't it? (smile). I know what this question means. Dong-hoon's current life and his future life, whether to live with Yoon-hee all the time, divorce her, or be with Yoon-hee again, in fact, although these are not explicitly expressed in the drama, I think Dong-hoon should maintain the status quo in the short term. He probably won't make such a big decision anytime soon. Wouldn't it look too sweet if he put a family photo of three people on the table together? (smile) That would be very different from what happens when a TV show goes all the way to this point. But on the other hand, although there is no family photo of the three of them together on Dong-hoon's table, there are still many photos taken together in his house. I have performed to this point, and the rest I will leave to you to imagine. This is my idea.

 

-

 

h8d8qqnKPIs1Gas2sGG1e2Rw7mFRrXTObBc5rHGL

 

 

Q: What are Dong-hoon's feelings for Ji-an?

 

LSK: At first, it may be a pity. It may be sympathy. And it may feel like a like-minded person. I also feel very panicked because she seems to see through all my weaknesses and dark side. I am also curious about what kind of existence this child is. But... Ji-an... Although I also had a lot of burdens and feelings of rupture, that child was like a stray cat, wandering alone, with a strong personality. After learning about her environment and experiences, it seemed like I wanted to protect her more as an adult.

 

 

Q: When facing temptation, is Dong-hoon strong or weak?

 

LSK: He is the one who tries hard not to be tempted. He is also afraid of his feelings for Ji-an. He is very consistent in his feelings, and will not change once he has decided. Are his feelings love, compassion, or sympathy? But it's not really like that. Many things are superimposed on each other. He was afraid of the temptations and feelings that came up. He was also grateful that those feelings were finally dissipated. Dong-hoon takes the safety of his surroundings very seriously. He has a very strong desire to protect his family. If it is seen as love in a broad sense, it can be said to be love. But it is not the kind of love between the opposite sexes.

 

-

 

→ According to the director, Park Dong-hoon didn't divorce before the last shot of MM. He still maintains the status quo. "Dong-hoon has divorced" is just in our imagination (?)

 

Also, according to Lee Sun-kyun, Park Dong-hoon is not in love with Lee Ji-an. It is simply an adult who is taking care of a child. Even if there is a temptation from Ji-An, Dong-Hoon has no feelings for her after the time skip. What will happen to them afterward is just our own fantasy. In short, according to Lee Sun-kyun, Dong-hoon and Ji-an can't be together no matter how many dinners they have (?)

 

 

Source: 我不是剧博 on Bilibili.

 

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From time to time I come back to this forum to check if there is any news of LSK and IU reuniting to star as leads in some hardcore drama movie. Can't believe we are at the end of 2022 and there is no movie with them together :crymeme:

On 11/28/2022 at 6:03 AM, YukawaCattle said:

 If it is seen as love in a broad sense, it can be said to be love. But it is not the kind of love between the opposite sexes.

I'm planning on rewatching MM after 3 years, I'm wondering how my feelings regarding their couple and the series in general will have changed after the time skip. But I'm especially curious about how I'll  perceive JA and DH's couple. During the drama's airing I loved their chemistry and really think that they are one of the best noncouple couples in television

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On 11/23/2022 at 1:05 AM, YukawaCattle said:

 

In fact, when I saw this, I thought that this should be how the Korean film industry classifies MM. Otherwise, this author would not create his/her own new terms. After all, this is the page to introduce important Korean actors to foreigners. Because it feels like a formal page, I assume the author would not write it randomly, so this information should be available for us to reference.


I have noticed that everyone says different things. Like, for the director, My Mister is a comedy, for the Korean Govnerment is a romantic melodrama, and I saw the My Mister script book cover and it says it's a slice-of-life :sweatingbullets: I do believe that can be all of them together... but each one seems to prioritize one of them, and it's funny to me.

 

On 11/23/2022 at 1:05 AM, YukawaCattle said:

Oh yes. I've thought about something like that. In the seventh episode, even has the shot of Dong-hoon turns on the gas stove.


I also think that you or GMS (I can't remember right now) posted one picture with cnadles between them. But yeah, seems to have a pattern.
 

 

On 11/23/2022 at 1:05 AM, YukawaCattle said:

By the way, I think it's interesting to explore "what kind of women Park Dong-hoon is interested in" based on Yoon-hee and Ji-an's personalities.


They have similarities, one of the few things that can differ is that Ji An is very close to her remain family and would do everything for "them". Maybe that's the key point for Dong Hoon.

 

On 11/23/2022 at 1:05 AM, YukawaCattle said:

It's no wonder Chang-hee and Ye-rin ended up having this plot because Park Hae-young wants to let them amicable breakup so that they can greet each other on the road in the future with a non-awkward mood in mind.


Very reasonable! I actually forgot about their first breakup.

 

On 11/27/2022 at 11:03 PM, YukawaCattle said:

Oh. Because when I brought up this topic last time, someone said that being too sure about this kind of thing might make non-shippers uncomfortable, so I would like to translate the director's and the actor's words here for non-shippers particularly.


Curious interview. As a shipper my head was spinning! :sweatingbullets:

My Mister interviews are always dubious to me when I think about some elements in the drama that opposes to what they have said. I think we have too much external forces (social ones) that I can't really buy what they're saying 100%.

If we never had the controversy at the beginning (related to IU's age and Lee Sun Kyun visuals), even if they kept the story and I was shipping by my own risk of doing so, I would believe more in this interview.

I can't picture Lee Sun Kyun saying "yeah, they ended up together/they're going to be a couple/they loved each other" even after all these years. This would make him look bad. Knetz would toss him out.

Like for exemple: In the end we have Dong Hoon's handshake. We interpret as if he's now free to make a more intimate move. But reading this interview, from Lee Sun Kyun's perspective, maybe his feelings just have dissipated enough for him feel free to handshake without feeling something for her.

It's not something that I would like to think as a possibility, even if it can make sense.

But Ok, My Mister do this a lot, they do, say, dubious things.

But, I don't think we can say that Lee Sun Kyun's answer is universally true, because in that scene, Dong Hoon turned his head in order to avoid Ji An's eyes. The same thing that he did at the bar before she left.

He was shy thats why he avoided. If his feelings dissipated, he wouldn't do it.

Many people associate one thing with another. We grow up seeing references, in our daily lives or cinema, or books, so when we see one thing, we associate with another, making a link. We can't though, associate one thing that we have seen with another that we have never seen.

We can't associate, for exemple, a glass blade with pfzws. Because we don't know what pfzws means.
But we can associate the glass blade with an eraser. Because we have already seen it in our lives.

What I mean with this is: we can associate lot's of things that Dong Hoon and Ji An did with romantic feelings, because we have already seen it. I can't pretend that I didn't. And if I would pretend, I would be blatantly lying.

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On 11/22/2022 at 6:45 AM, YukawaCattle said:

I think what you mentioned is a bit outside of the drama system. The drama is based on Park Hae-young's value system of love, who believes that there is no need to have steps in a relationship between a man and a woman. She thinks when it starts, it already starts. When it ends, it already ends. She already explained her value system in AOHY, MLN, and also MM EP12.

 

I haven't watched AOHY yet, but I remember that in MLN and in MM Ep 12, both Mr Gu and Mi Jung, and Yu Ra and Ki Hoon, actually do have a conversation about getting together. They have a dialogue about it and that's considered the beginning of their actual relationships. Ki Hoon doesn't say, "Omma! I have a girlfriend!" until he and Yu Ra have sat outside Jung Hee's bar and clarified that they won't dump the other, even though there's been a lot of build-up until Ep 12, with multiple discussions between KH and YR in previous episodes.

 

So between JA and DH, I feel like the handshake is the first time that DH can signal to JA that he's available and still interested, and they're exchanging signals with each other...but I still think it can be consistent with Park Hae-Young's value system to have them have a clearer dialogue, later, about whether or not TO get together.

 

On 11/22/2022 at 3:59 PM, YukawaCattle said:

By the way, as I mentioned before, this kind of reaction from the audience is the same as Sang-hoon's reaction. At that time, Sang-hoon also felt that Ki-hoon and Yu-ra must experience some steps to be considered they already together.


It seems like the director and the writer already expected the audience's this kind of reaction, so they give Jung-hee some dialogues to reply to this confusion to claim that this is MM's unique system.

 

I've thought about this as well, about Sang Hoon and Jung Hee's conversation. But again, KH and YR had had multiple discussions about their relationship before they actually got together in Ep 12. So for KH and YR, their clear dialogue about getting together in Ep 12 was a culmination that came after other "steps" had happened in previous episodes. At first I bought into JH's declaration that men and women begin and end in one swoop, but if we look at the progression of KH and YR's entire relationship it was a slow burn with lots of fits and starts before they finally, clearly, made it official in Ep 12.

 

As you know, I'm all for DH and JA getting together. :)I just don't think we can say with certainty that they're getting together the moment they shake hands....

 

On 11/22/2022 at 3:59 PM, YukawaCattle said:

If Dong-hoon still not yet together with Ji-an when they shook hands, then the scriptwriter and director actually made the following settings for MM's ending:

 

 

KWS & PHY: Please finish this horse.

 

I think this is exactly what they did! :lol:

 

@actionscript has a great theory about MM and the red carpet that is laid out for JA and DH. Chingu can you share your theory if you think it applies to this?

 

 

On 11/23/2022 at 5:05 AM, YukawaCattle said:

Oh yes. I've thought about something like that. In the seventh episode, even has the shot of Dong-hoon turns on the gas stove.

 

Oh, great catch! I didn't notice that one before, from DH and JA's time at the restobar. Nice.

 

4 hours ago, dongans said:

I also think that you or GMS (I can't remember right now) posted one picture with cnadles between them. But Yeah, seems to have a pattern.

 

Are you thinking of this post from GMS? Every time DH and JA are at the restobar, there are candles everywhere. https://givemeslippers.wordpress.com/2022/04/20/love-grows-here-hugye-restobar/

 

So romantic. :wub:

 

14 hours ago, anipanch said:

I'm planning on rewatching MM after 2 years, I'm wondering how my feelings regarding their couple and the series in general will have changed after the time skip. But I'm especially curious about how I'll  perceive JA and DH's couple. During the drama's airing I loved their chemistry and really think that they are one of the best noncouple couples in television

 

After reading your posts earlier in this thread, it's so great to see you  @anipanch! Agree!! Their chemistry is sizzling and was so unexpected for me. If you're like some of the rest of us, you'll pick up even more "moments of love" upon subsequent rewatches. Now it's hard for me NOT to see DH's longing glances and all the little scenes the director included deliberately to show us DH was thinking about and talking about JA. Let us know what you notice this time around!

 

5 hours ago, dongans said:

Curious interview. As a shipper my head was spinning! :sweatingbullets:

My Mister interviews are always dubious to me when I think about some elements in the drama that opposes to what they have said. I think we have too much external forces (social ones) that I can't really buy what they're saying 100%.

If we never had the controversy at the beginning (related to IU's age and Lee Sun Kyun visuals), even if they kept the story and I was shipping by my own risk of doing so, I would believe more in this interview.

I can't picture Lee Sun Kyun saying "yeah, we ended up together/we're going to be a couple/we loved each other" even after these years. This would make him look bad. Knetz would toss him out.

Like for exemple: In the end we have Dong Hoon's handshake. We interpret as if he's now free to make a more intimate move. But reading this internview, from Lee Sun Kyun's perspective, maybe his feelings just have dissipated enough for him feel free to handshake without feeling something for her.

It's not something that I would like to think as a possibility, even if it can make sense.

But Ok, My Mister do this a lot, they do, say, dubious things.

But, I don't think we can say that Lee Sun Kyun's answer is universally true, because in that scene, Dong Hoon turned his head in order to avoid Ji An's eyes. The same thing that he did at the bar before she left.

He was shy thats why he avoided. If his feelings dissipated, he wouldn't do it.

Many people associate one thing with another. We grow up seeing references, in our daily lives or cinema, books, so when we see one thing, we associate with another, making a link. We can't though, associate one thing that we have seen with another that we have never seen.

we can't associate, for exemple, a glass blade with pfzws. Because we don't know what pfzws means.
Be we can associate the glass blade with an eraser. Because we have already seen it in our lives.

What I mean with this is: we can associate lot's of things that Dong Hoon and Ji An did with romantic feelings, because we have already seen it. I can't pretend that I didn't. And if I would pretend, I would be blatantly lying.

 

Completely agree with every single thing you said here. :D Well said!

 

 

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On 11/27/2022 at 11:03 PM, YukawaCattle said:

LSK: He is the one who tries hard not to be tempted. He is also afraid of his feelings for Ji-an. He is very consistent in his feelings, and will not change once he has decided. Are his feelings love, compassion, or sympathy? But it's not really like that. Many things are superimposed on each other. He was afraid of the temptations and feelings that came up. He was also grateful that those feelings were finally dissipated. Dong-hoon takes the safety of his surroundings very seriously. He has a very strong desire to protect his family. If it is seen as love in a broad sense, it can be said to be love. But it is not the kind of love between the opposite sexes.


"Many things are superimposed on each other. He was afraid of the temptations and feelings that came up" -> this I really believe in, because their relationship was always blurry.

"Dong-hoon takes the safety of his surroundings very seriously. He has a very strong desire to protect his family." -> This part I have my doubts, if he said this meaning "before everything colapsed", it makes sense. But if he means that "after everything colapsed" I would not buy it. Because Dong Hoon was built again from the scratch, of course he is going to be more or less the same as before, but due to what his monk friend said to him and he have learned along the way with Ji An, it's expected of him to be a more easygoing person.

 "
If it is seen as love in a broad sense, it can be said to be love. But it is not the kind of love between the opposite sexes." -> This, not even Lee Sun Kyun himself believes that. :surprisedwut:

 

 

39 minutes ago, the_sweetroad said:

Are you thinking of this post from GMS? Every time DH and JA are at the restobar, there are candles everywhere. https://givemeslippers.wordpress.com/2022/04/20/love-grows-here-hugye-restobar/

 

So romantic. :wub:

YES! I was thinking about this perfect article :fullofhearts:
 

39 minutes ago, the_sweetroad said:

I haven't watched AOHY yet, but I remember that in MLN and in MM Ep 12, both Mr Gu and Mi Jung, and Yu Ra and Ki Hoon, actually do have a conversation about getting together. They have a dialogue about it and that's considered the beginning of their actual relationships. Ki Hoon doesn't say, "Omma! I have a girlfriend!" until he and Yu Ra have sat outside Jung Hee's bar and clarified that they won't dump the other, even though there's been a lot of build-up until Ep 12, with multiple discussions between KH and YR in previous episodes.

 

So between JA and DH, I feel like the handshake is the first time that DH can signal to JA that he's available and still interested, and they're exchanging signals with each other...but I still think it can be consistent with Park Hae-Young's value system to have them have a clearer dialogue, later, about whether or not TO get together.


I don't remember much about AOHY, @YukawaCattle enlighten me if I'm wrong: but the female and male second lead they were never a thing romantically, but they get drunk and she get's pregnant. They hide it, while they decide what to do, but then, they decide to give it a go "official" (after everyone knows about it).

 

39 minutes ago, the_sweetroad said:

If you're like some of the rest of us, you'll pick up even more "moments of love" upon subsequent rewatches.


I was going to say that in my previous post, but I gave up lmao 
Now I watch all their scenes like this -> :partyblob: 

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11 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

I haven't watched AOHY yet, but I remember that in MLN and in MM Ep 12, both Mr Gu and Mi Jung, and Yu Ra and Ki Hoon, actually do have a conversation about getting together. They have a dialogue about it and that's considered the beginning of their actual relationships. Ki Hoon doesn't say, "Omma! I have a girlfriend!" until he and Yu Ra have sat outside Jung Hee's bar and clarified that they won't dump the other, even though there's been a lot of build-up until Ep 12, with multiple discussions between KH and YR in previous episodes.

 

So between JA and DH, I feel like the handshake is the first time that DH can signal to JA that he's available and still interested, and they're exchanging signals with each other...but I still think it can be consistent with Park Hae-Young's value system to have them have a clearer dialogue, later, about whether or not TO get together.

 

You can have your own ideas. Everyone's standards are different, after all. Based on the presentation of the work, I judge that Dong-hoon and Ji-an were already together when they shook hands.

 

And, will Park Dong-hoon definitely tell what he is thinking about?
 

11 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

I've thought about this as well, about Sang Hoon and Jung Hee's conversation. But again, KH and YR had had multiple discussions about their relationship before they actually got together in Ep 12. So for KH and YR, their clear dialogue about getting together in Ep 12 was a culmination that came after other "steps" had happened in previous episodes. At first I bought into JH's declaration that men and women begin and end in one swoop, but if we look at the progression of KH and YR's entire relationship it was a slow burn with lots of fits and starts before they finally, clearly, made it official in Ep 12.

 

As you know, I'm all for DH and JA getting together. :)I just don't think we can say with certainty that they're getting together the moment they shake hands....

 

Dong-hoon and Ji-an know each other's feelings a few times before the time skip. The only thing left for them to do is to confirm whether they can be together or not.

 

11 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

I think this is exactly what they did! :lol:

 

If you really think so, then actionscript's theory does not hold in MM by your idea. His article is just a personal imagination, not the real situation of MM. That's what I mean.
 

-----

 

17 hours ago, dongans said:

Curious interview. As a shipper my head was spinning! :sweatingbullets:

My Mister interviews are always dubious to me when I think about some elements in the drama that opposes to what they have said. I think we have too much external forces (social ones) that I can't really buy what they're saying 100%.

If we never had the controversy at the beginning (related to IU's age and Lee Sun Kyun visuals), even if they kept the story and I was shipping by my own risk of doing so, I would believe more in this interview.

I can't picture Lee Sun Kyun saying "yeah, they ended up together/they're going to be a couple/they loved each other" even after all these years. This would make him look bad. Knetz would toss him out.

Like for exemple: In the end we have Dong Hoon's handshake. We interpret as if he's now free to make a more intimate move. But reading this interview, from Lee Sun Kyun's perspective, maybe his feelings just have dissipated enough for him feel free to handshake without feeling something for her.

It's not something that I would like to think as a possibility, even if it can make sense.

But Ok, My Mister do this a lot, they do, say, dubious things.

But, I don't think we can say that Lee Sun Kyun's answer is universally true, because in that scene, Dong Hoon turned his head in order to avoid Ji An's eyes. The same thing that he did at the bar before she left.

He was shy thats why he avoided. If his feelings dissipated, he wouldn't do it.

Many people associate one thing with another. We grow up seeing references, in our daily lives or cinema, or books, so when we see one thing, we associate with another, making a link. We can't though, associate one thing that we have seen with another that we have never seen.

We can't associate, for exemple, a glass blade with pfzws. Because we don't know what pfzws means.
But we can associate the glass blade with an eraser. Because we have already seen it in our lives.

What I mean with this is: we can associate lot's of things that Dong Hoon and Ji An did with romantic feelings, because we have already seen it. I can't pretend that I didn't. And if I would pretend, I would be blatantly lying.

 

"Many things are superimposed on each other. He was afraid of the temptations and feelings that came up" -> this I really believe in, because their relationship was always blurry.

"Dong-hoon takes the safety of his surroundings very seriously. He has a very strong desire to protect his family." -> This part I have my doubts, if he said this meaning "before everything colapsed", it makes sense. But if he means that "after everything colapsed" I would not buy it. Because Dong Hoon was built again from the scratch, of course he is going to be more or less the same as before, but due to what his monk friend said to him and he have learned along the way with Ji An, it's expected of him to be a more easygoing person.

 "
If it is seen as love in a broad sense, it can be said to be love. But it is not the kind of love between the opposite sexes." -> This, not even Lee Sun Kyun himself believes that. :surprisedwut:

 

I actually don't feel anything when I watch these interviews anymore. But I totally agree with what you have said.

 

 

And did anyone mention the handshake scene(?)
 

 

AL9nZEVnncTGTZrhru7va1UBMS0aWkDQy8Bwk-x1

 

 

Q: What is the meaning of the handshake at the end?

 

LSK: In the end, when I saw Ji-an, I felt very grateful. I was grateful for the way she was trying to survive in society, and I was very happy and satisfied. That's what I think it is. Is it support for her? Or maybe it's an inspiration. I feel like it has that kind of meaning.

 

 

→ There is no any romance in the handshake scene. Park Dong-hoon is simply encouraging Lee Ji-an to continue to work hard in life. Park Dong-hoon did not pursue Lee Ji-an. This is all our illusion(?)

 

 

(Source: 我不是剧博 on bilibili)

 

 

By the way, the Korean shipper made the following gif(?)

 

 

AL9nZEV5kRlsyEnfsU6FZUqfEDMtusUMcNBTwnHu

 

 

(Source: DC forum)

 

11 hours ago, dongans said:

I don't remember much about AOHY, @YukawaCattle enlighten me if I'm wrong: but the female and male second lead they were never a thing romantically, but they get drunk and she get's pregnant. They hide it, while they decide what to do, but then, they decide to give it a go "official" (after everyone knows about it).

 

Hmmm... :rubchin:

 

This is the situation in which one of them rejected the other side at the time. However, non of Dong-hoon and Ji-an reject each other in the end.
 

There is one more couple in AOHY: Park Hoon and Yoon Ahn-na.

 

When Park Hoon broke up with his girlfriend, he went to a convenience store to talk to his friend Ahn-na about it and immediately dated her after talking about his story.

 

 

AOHY, EP1

uY7LCbVrF8TjZxJDIpjyo_ykdBDfD6TRzRlVj1Wk

 

 

Yoon Ahn-na: Did you have a fight with someone?

 

Park Hoon: Today... I broke up with my girlfriend.

 

Yoon Ahn-na: ...!

 

Park Hoon: I'm thinking about who to go out with now. Who is better?

 

Yoon Ahn-na: I'm not one of those candidates, hun?

 

Park Hoon: ...! You're cool.

 

 

That night, Ahn-na has lines, as follows ↓

 

 

Yoon Ahn-na: Remember today is the first day we started going out.

 

 

and

 

 

Yoon Ahn-na: I was getting so bored that I was going to settle for an old man. I can't believe you're my boyfriend now.

 

 

→ When the two agree, Park Hae-young will let them be together immediately.

 

----------

 

Cattle's murmur:

 

I think I should end the topic of "Dong-hoon and Ji-an already in a relationship when they shake hands." Because I can't convince you guys, and you guys can't convince me. I am not based on personal values and experiences because these things are not the essence of MM, and nothing you guys say can disprove the fact that EP16 DongAn's handshake scene is symmetrical to EP12 KiYu's relationship scene in terms of camera and script structure. :sweatingbullets:

 

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Park Dong-hoon's character development arc actually has three lines. Two of them are "DongYoon's divorce storyline" and "DongAn's love storyline," mentioned by actionscript. The remaining one is related to his occupation.
 

Spoiler

In fact, "the pursuit of social status" is also Park Dong-hoon's character development arc. In EP3, Dong-hoon showed his jealousy of Jun-young to Yoon-hee and then showed his envy of Jun-young to Ji-an. This shows that Dong-hoon actually wants to have the same social status as Jun-young.

 

 

(EP3)
AL9nZEWk2q7ZzmCPkFLyaSJeYB0TL9SR6e9Vlhuc

 

AL9nZEXEz1luCWfWPeYlPSyU6DTC9h1dor_NTnNo

 

 

AL9nZEWLl55N3LYxL-bQGqwDyLH900lFpl3-x2oi

 

AL9nZEVonhMpRpt_6HnAWxaSFKPXmggbhq0jQlpG

 

AL9nZEV1YNEVnzwq90fS7jQTghsBfSrWEN44vdXQ

 


So what Jun-young describes Dong-hoon in the EP7 is actually accurate. Park Dong-hoon wants to pursue social status, but he is afraid to follow his own desires because he is afraid of what people around him think of him (I can't understand what this situation is, but in any case, Park Dong-hoon has this idea).

 

 

(EP7)
AL9nZEVA-4rNg_FualxPzWbpcxGaPQalA2ylOvVU

 

 

Do Jun-young: Do you think you are the only one who knows me? I saw right through you 20 years ago too. You are a hypocritical, lifelong sufferer. Your faction among men is very obvious. If you are too greedy, you will be abandoned, so you do not have the courage to strive for advancement. "Stay this until retirement. Just until I'm 50." You quickly realize the reality. But at the same time, you despise and envy people who strive for advancement.

 

(Note: Each translation seems to be very different. I pick the Chinese version on Netflix.)

 


The screenwriter Park Hae-young has a value that "It's okay if you don't want to do it. But if you really want it, just pursue it." So "pursuing material desires in order to be responsible for others (including family)" is not likely to be the character development arc that the screenwriter has given to Park Dong-hoon. If Dong-hoon didn't want it, the scriptwriter wouldn't force him. She will still think Dong-hoon is nice and good. It is because Dong-hoon wants it that the scriptwriter will let him realize it. And it is because Park Hae-young has this value system that's why we see Yoon Sang-won telling Park Dong-hoon not to sacrifice himself for Park Ji-seok.

 

In short, "pursuing social status" is one of the items that Park Dong-hoon's character development arcs, which is also related to his choice between desire and conscience.

 

I mention this just want to say that even if Park Dong-hoon did not divorce Kang Yoon-hee in the end, or if he did not pursue/accept Lee Ji-an's pursuit after the divorce (← No matter if it is "pursue" or "accept pursuit," he only has to accomplish one of them), in fact, MM's writer and director still completed one of Park Dong-hoon's character development arc. 

 

 

(EP16)
u9996u5716u87a2u5e55u5febu7167-2022-01-2

 


But it's not very obvious because this is not the main storyline of the whole drama. And usually, the audience will assume that "Park Dong-hoon is a good adult" and then ignore the fact that he will also be envious and jealous of others(?)

 

 

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On 11/29/2022 at 2:27 PM, the_sweetroad said:

After reading your posts earlier in this thread, it's so great to see you  @anipanch! Agree!! Their chemistry is sizzling and was so unexpected for me. If you're like some of the rest of us, you'll pick up even more "moments of love" upon subsequent rewatches. Now it's hard for me NOT to see DH's longing glances and all the little scenes the director included deliberately to show us DH was thinking about and talking about JA. Let us know what you notice this time around!

Aah you remember me, so sweet of you :wub: And I'm more excited now about the rewatch :popcornjackson:

On 11/29/2022 at 9:21 PM, YukawaCattle said:

 

Okay I'm screaming DH is literally bashing like a teenage boy in love here :partyblob:

Edited by ferily
Please don't quote gifs. Thanks!
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43 minutes ago, anipanch said:

Aah you remember me, so sweet of you :wub: And I'm more excited now about the rewatch 

 

Yay!! I'm seriously so curious what you will notice this time around on your rewatch.

 

11 hours ago, dongans said:

I was going to say that in my previous post, but I gave up lmao 
Now I watch all their scenes like this -> :partyblob: 

 

So do I. :lol: They're too cute together.

 

Chingu what have you been noticing on *your* rewatches??

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