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[Drama 2018] My Mister, 나의 아저씨 - Best Drama at 2019 (55th) BaekSang Arts Awards


Go Seung Ji

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7 hours ago, YukawaCattle said:

For example, they translate DH's dialogue in EP10 "You're a crazy b***h" as "You're crazy" in Chinese.

But this dialogue in Korean is 너 미친년이야, and means "you," 미친년 means "crazy b***h", 이야 means "are."

So I think "You're a crazy b***h" is more in line with the original script.

There 3 or 4 different kinds of unofficial Chinese translated scripts, made by some unofficial translator groups. One of them translates the "You're a  crazy b--ch"  to "你个疯女人” which means “You‘re a crazy woman”. Because the meaning of "b--ch" in Chinese is going too far that using this word to describe JA may cause someone uncomfortable (including me), me and my friend all accept "你是个疯子”(you're crazy)or "你是个疯女人” (You're a crazy woman).

 

IMO DH is a self-deceiving man unquestionable.  If he regarded JA as a "child" or "girl" really, he won't felt uncomfortable having dinner with her at first.

 

And something interesting is after JA  kissed him,  DH gave JA a warning to fire her without any hesitation and their "dinner date" breaks off,  until he found out that his wife is cheating on him.

 

I think when DH knew YH's infidelity, DH's subconsciousness tell himself that he can date anyone he like from now on, something like "yes man you have the right!". So in the EP7, when JA asked for dinner outside the entrance of the subway, DH accepted it freely.

 

But his consciousness is warning him it is not right since he is still married. 

 

So, he continued to deceive himself JA is just a "child". But we audiences and other roles in the drama all know she is an adult.

 

What a self-deceiver.

.:surprisedwut:

 

Edited by Thomas Zhang
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5 hours ago, actionscript said:

Yes! Exactly my thoughts! Whatever happened during the time skip are all assumptions, and the moment of truth were shown to us when they meet again. And now that we know their feelings upon meeting again, we could now work backwards to build an accurate picture on what happened during the time skip – that they were giving each other space to resolve personal issues and to settle down from all the things that happened. And the fact they didn’t contact each other strengthens the notion they are still harboring feelings for each other, because it would have been easier to pick up the phone or send a text if one is putting nothing on the line, if there is no fear of rejection or disappointment.

 

Your idea reminds me of this comment.

 

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Have you read it before?
It is below in this video.

 


I hope all of you can read it, @actionscript @the_sweetroad.
Because I think this fan writes very well and accurately.

 

I mentioned the values of Kim Won-Seok in the before post. 
I guess he may think that it is very romantic for a woman to keep loving a man for more than ten years, even that guy didn't promise her anything.
He probably thought it was romantic.

 

Assuming that's really his value system.
Then keep this understanding in mind, we go back and watch DH's dialogues again.

 

Spoiler

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"So if we run into each other decades later, I'm going to greet you, and I'll be glad to see you again."

 

"Let's do that. Please. Let's do that."

 

The numbers in the original dialogues are not "decades." They are accurate numbers:


그래서 10년후든 20년후든
(Google translation: So 10 years or 20 years from now)

 

Why does he say 10 or 20 years?
Why doesn't he say "later" or "in the future"?

 

In this drama, where do 10 years show up?

It shows up in the restaurateur's dialogues.

 

Spoiler

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And where did 20 years show up?
This is the time JH broke up with SW.
And JH still loves him within these 20 years.

 

Spoiler

spacer.png

 

So in terms of @actionscript's observations, Kim Won Seok's values, and the numbers hidden in the dialogues, I think this comment really makes sense.
Maybe DH's dialogues here are like this in the director's mind: 


"Please continue to love me for 10 or 20 years because I will divorce within 10 years and we will be in a relationship within 20 years. So wait for me a little bit. Please."


(I guess in KWS's mind, they will be in a relationship within 20 years.)

 

Maybe such interpretation might help construct evidence of the new beginning for DH and JA?

How do you guys think?

 

5 hours ago, actionscript said:

Thank you for enlightening me on this! :thumbsup:

 

Thanks for sharing your idea with me.

You also makes me consider this problem from another perspective.

It is fresh to me.  :thumbsup:

 

5 hours ago, actionscript said:

Oh, if the reason is to impress ahjussi, then I take back my assumption that they are not math books. Maybe she wanted to make sure the next time she meets ahjussi, she can compute her cosmic age correctly. :sweatingbullets:

 

I think Ahjussi is willing to teach her math, so that he can make excuses to talk with her. :lol:

 

5 hours ago, actionscript said:

There you go! And those math textbooks are hidden on JA’s bookshelf. ;)

 

:lol:

 

5 hours ago, actionscript said:

Thanks for that picture of their dinner in ep 1 that showed other non-couples in the restaurant. I did a quick watch of the scenes in their hangout place and indeed, they’ve showed either another couple in the background, or they didn’t show any other people at all. The ones in ep 6, 12, and 16 didn’t show any other people. The 2 restaurant scenes in ep 7 did show another couple in the background, with the first one even showing the couple doing a toast as well.

 

Thanks for checking them.
So I think these passersby really could show KWS's idea for DH and JA's relationship.
I think it is really important.

 

---

 

1 hour ago, the_sweetroad said:

Good morning everyone!

I watched the restaurant scene in Ep 6 again last night and it DOES show people! :hooray:

At first I thought it didn't, but when the shot moves to a wide shot, you can see people in the background. DH and JA are sitting at the bar, talking about feigning ignorance, and there are 2 couples in the background. At the very end of the scene, the shot actually finally brings them more into focus, too.

 

In the one in Ep 12, the clock says something like 11:30pm, so maybe by then all the couples have left. :lol: I need to re-watch that one.

 

Good morning! :hooray:

Thanks for checking them.

Now we have more evidence to show they love each other.

By the way, I am curious about who mentioned this evidence at first.

This Soompi member is amazing.

 

---

 

1 hour ago, Thomas Zhang said:

There 3 or 4 different kinds of unofficial Chinese translated scripts, made by some unofficial translator groups. One of them translates the "You're a  crazy b--ch"  to "你个疯女人” which means “You‘re a crazy woman”. Because the meaning of "b--ch" in Chinese is going too far that using this word to describe JA may cause someone uncomfortable (including me), me and my friend all accept "你是个疯子”(you're crazy)or "你是个疯女人” (You're a crazy woman).

 

Thanks for discussing the translation with me.
Ok, maybe "You're a crazy b--ch" will make the audience uncomfortable in Chinese, then we use "You're a crazy woman."
But I still prefer to translate this dialogue as "你是个疯女人" (You're a crazy woman) rather than "你是个疯子" (you're crazy)
Because such dialogue will directly show us that DH really treats JA as a woman from the bottom of his heart.
As you mentioned below, 

 

1 hour ago, Thomas Zhang said:

IMO DH is a self-deceiving man unquestionable.  If he regarded JA as a "child" or "girl" really, he won't felt uncomfortable having dinner with her at first.

 

And something interesting is after JA  kissed him,  DH gave JA a warning to fire her without any hesitation and their "dinner date" breaks off,  until he found out that his wife is cheating on him.

 

I think when DH knew YH's infidelity, DH's subconsciousness tell himself that he can date anyone he like from now on, something like "yes man you have the right!". So in the EP7, when JA asked for dinner outside the entrance of the subway, DH accepted it freely.

 

But his consciousness is warning him it is not right since he is still married. 

 

So, he continued to deceive himself JA is just a "child". But we audiences and other roles in the drama all know she is an adult.

 

What a self-deceiver.

.:surprisedwut:

 

 

we all know he already treats her as a woman in the beginning.
But this dialogue will show us his thoughts very obviously.
So I think the translation of this dialogue is very important.
Because "You're crazy" and "You're a crazy woman" are very different to the audience to understand DH's mind, after all.

 

(Your interpretation is really accurate. I think I could more understand DH's logic. Thanks!)

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5 hours ago, actionscript said:

And now that we know their feelings upon meeting again, we could now work backwards to build an accurate picture on what happened during the time skip – that they were giving each other space to resolve personal issues and to settle down from all the things that happened. And the fact they didn’t contact each other strengthens the notion they are still harboring feelings for each other, because it would have been easier to pick up the phone or send a text if one is putting nothing on the line, if there is no fear of rejection or disappointment.

 

Agreed. It seems that way. And I think the time skip is necessary for Dong Hoon to realize the extent of his feelings for JA and whether he would pursue her if she ever came back into his orbit. I.e. I think his feelings grew even stronger during the time skip. I love this quote (also in the intro to the fanfic):

 

"Absence diminishes mediocre passions and increases great ones, as the wind extinguishes candles and fans fires.
- Francois de La Rochefoucauld"

 

Of course, that's my assumption. :lol:

 

43 minutes ago, YukawaCattle said:

I hope all of you can read it, @actionscript @the_sweetroad.
Because I think this fan writes very well and accurately.

 

Yes, I've read it! So good. I think @actionscript also wrote something about that in this thread when he read it, LOL.

 

But I think you're right - DH is asking JA to wait for him. In Viki the translation is correct (10, 20 years) but not Netflix. Grrrr. :):) 

 

Also, DH and Yoon Hee were together for 20 years, as he said in Ep 12 when they have their confrontation. So putting that together with Jung Hee pining after Sang Won for 20 years....great insight!

 

2 hours ago, Thomas Zhang said:

I think when DH knew YH's infidelity, DH's subconsciousness tell himself that he can date anyone he like from now on, something like "yes man you have the right!". So in the EP7, when JA asked for dinner outside the entrance of the subway, DH accepted it freely.

 

Interesting thought! Of course, he had the excuse that he wanted to "thank" JA, but he still did accept it freely.

 

Also, it's at the end of Ep 7 that he asks the bar owner, "Did that girl come? ....the one with the pretty face." It's only after he learns of YH's infidelity that we hear him describe JA this way.

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1 hour ago, the_sweetroad said:

Yes, I've read it! So good. I think @actionscript also wrote something about that in this thread when he read it, LOL.

 

Oh, I find it.
I think I should read the old posts in this thread more carefully.

Sorry, @actionscript:cry:

 

1 hour ago, the_sweetroad said:

But I think you're right - DH is asking JA to wait for him. In Viki the translation is correct (10, 20 years) but not Netflix. Grrrr. :):) 

 

It seems like the translation of Netflix is always not so accurate.
I think they should work more hard, lol.

 

1 hour ago, the_sweetroad said:

Also, DH and Yoon Hee were together for 20 years, as he said in Ep 12 when they have their confrontation. So putting that together with Jung Hee pining after Sang Won for 20 years....great insight!

 

Oh, I forgot DH and YH.

Thanks for reminding me.

I think numbers are meaningful.

Maybe a good writer won't write them randomly.

In my opinion, good writers always carefully choose the words they use.
They are sensitive when using words, right?

 

---

 

By the way, I always think about this fan-made MV when someone mentioned "20 years".

I love this very much.

 

 

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18 hours ago, Thomas Zhang said:

I think when DH knew YH's infidelity, DH's subconsciousness tell himself that he can date anyone he like from now on, something like "yes man you have the right!". So in the EP7, when JA asked for dinner outside the entrance of the subway, DH accepted it freely.

 

Great insight that DH started having friendly dinners and drinks with JA only after he learned of the affair!

 

And it started before ep 7. That drinking session they had in ep 6 after DH thanked JA for slapping Asst. Manager Kim, it wasn’t shown who initiated it. But logically it was DH who invited JA, to “thank” her for slapping Kim.

 

17 hours ago, YukawaCattle said:

 

 

Thanks for re-posting! It’s always fun to re-read them as it’s been awhile.

 

17 hours ago, YukawaCattle said:

"So if we run into each other decades later, I'm going to greet you, and I'll be glad to see you again."

 

Actually this line has often been cited by non-shippers as proof that DH sees JA only as a friend. If you are to interpret the words literally, it may seem that way. But recall that in their goodbye phone conversation in ep 14, JA threw that question back at DH: “Will you greet me happily when we run into each other?” And the way DH answered back – the long pause, the reluctant “hmm,” and the facial expression and body language that went with it. For me, the way DH reluctantly replied speaks of a realization that goes something like “wait, will it all boil down to us just accidentally meeting in the future???”

 

17 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

I love this quote (also in the intro to the fanfic):

 

"Absence diminishes mediocre passions and increases great ones, as the wind extinguishes candles and fans fires.
- Francois de La Rochefoucauld"

 

That quote is mind-blowingly spot on!!! And yes I recall reading that in the intro of your fanfic, but admittedly I prioritized reading the other 1-2 pagers first. :sweatingbullets:  I got your cues.. Will get on it now! :D

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49 minutes ago, actionscript said:

I got your cues.. Will get on it now! 

 

Haha, not trying to give hints at all! It's just there whenever people want to read it. :lol: It's fun to see these ideas pop up these days on this thread, that seem to sync with what came to mind for me as I thought about the time skip...seems like many of us here are on the same page and not reading things wrongly.

 

Great Gatsby Movie GIF by Sony

 

49 minutes ago, actionscript said:

That drinking session they had in ep 6 after DH thanked JA for slapping Asst. Manager Kim, it wasn’t shown who initiated it. But logically it was DH who invited JA, to “thank” her for slapping Kim.

 

Good point.

 

49 minutes ago, actionscript said:

And the way DH answered back – the long pause, the reluctant “hmm,” and the facial expression and body language that went with it. (There’s a brief exchange about it in the Ep 11/12 spoilers thread of kfangirl’s site.) For me, the way DH reluctantly replied speaks of a realization that goes something like “wait, will it all boil down to us just accidentally meeting in the future???”

 

Yeah. It's so heartbreaking. By Ep 14, DH and YH have had their big confrontation and they realize their marriage is basically over, JA has had her panel interview and given him slippers again, and DH has realized she helps him breathe and he's so thankful she's by his side. By the Ep 14 farewell phone call, their connection is even stronger and deeper, and he can't even "breathe" without her there. So to realize she won't be there is a shock to him, as we've discussed.

 

To go back to what you said about Ep 11 then - can you talk more about that? Do you think he was being self-deceptive when he said "So if we run into each other 10 / 20 years later"? It could be asking for JA to wait that long for him, but at face-value, it could also sound like he thinks that after her contract at Saman is up, that he might not see her so much anymore.

 

3 hours ago, YukawaCattle said:

By the way, I always think about this fan-made MV when someone mentioned "20 years".

 

Thanks for sharing - I hadn't seen it before and it is so beautiful!

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3 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

To go back to what you said about Ep 11 then - can you talk more about that? Do you think he was being self-deceptive when he said "So if we run into each other 10 / 20 years later"? It could be asking for JA to wait that long for him, but at face-value, it could also sound like he thinks that after her contract at Saman is up, that he might not see her so much anymore.

 

First the context: JA confessed her love for DH the night before which DH technically did not accept. The next day, JA threw the slippers, so it seemed JA is starting to cut ties with DH after she was rejected. Her actions gave credence to the fact that her spiel the night before was indeed a love confession, and not just an act for the photographer, no? DH saw the slippers gone and have realized that JA is indeed starting to distance herself. He ran after her to basically say, sure you confessed and I didn't accept. That doesn't mean we should now feel awkward towards each other. We should stay as friends, and I won't fire you, you'd stay until the end of your contract.

 

If I am to interpret his line on "So if we run into each other 10/20 years later," it just means if we are to part, we should part on friendly terms, not on an awkward manner just because I rejected your love confession. 

 

But that line was referenced again  in ep 14 when JA threw that back to him with “Will you greet me happily when we run into each other?" His body language seem to indicate that it dawned on him now that perhaps seeing JA go, the person that helps him breathe, and just getting to meet her some time again in the future, is not how he would have wanted for things to go. 

 

So in ep 11, it was a deception at the subconscious level, and it came forth into consciousness when JA threw it back at him in ep 14, when he felt the gravity, the shock, that he might not see JA again. 

 

So JA's line in ep 14 is a direct reference to DH's line in ep 11 -- to emphasize the contrast on how DH said it back in ep 11, and then his reaction upon hearing it again in ep 14.

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5 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

Absence diminishes mediocre passions and increases great ones, as the wind extinguishes candles and fans fires.
- Francois de La Rochefoucauld"

Wow this really impresses me. I'll take a pen copy it and put it in my video's script.:thumbsup:

 

1 hour ago, actionscript said:

And it started before ep 7. That drinking session they had in ep 6 after DH thanked JA for slapping Asst. Manager Kim, it wasn’t shown who initiated it. But logically it was DH who invited JA, to “thank” her for slapping Kim.

 

Indeed. The "slapping" is a turning point, a specific signal that JA would stand by the side of DH instead of plotting against him. And if I recall correctly it is the first time they went there, "their exclusive pub". 

 

And DH drank moodily there. And we all know that this place never intrude by any others such as his brothers or subordinates. Only watched by GI. It is like a sancutary.

 

So I think the pub is the place DH  originally wanted to drink alone. It is reasonable that if he confronts sth. bad and won't bother his brothers, he would go there alone. 

 

I think the meaning of he took JA to the pub is that the woman was becoming a confidante. He could share all his unhappiness and get comfort that he would never do these things with his wife.

 

So in the  EP7 we can see the longing look of Ahjussi. 

 

_____________________________________________________________________________

 

I also made a short video.  But for the reason of copyright YTB forbade me uploading it. 

So I share it on this site.

【我的大叔】至安 CUT - Fall in love_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

Hoping you guys enjoy it.

 

The song I choose is a Japnese song named “恋におちて -Fall In love-“ sang by Akiko Kobayashi (小林明子).

 

Edited by Thomas Zhang
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1 hour ago, actionscript said:

If I am to interpret his line on "So if we run into each other 10/20 years later," if just means if we are to part, we should part on friendly terms, not on an awkward manner just because I rejected your love confession. 

 

Perfect. This makes complete sense!

 

1 hour ago, actionscript said:

So in ep 11, it was a deception at the subconscious level, and it came forth into consciousness when JA threw it back at him in ep 14, when he felt the gravity, the shock, that he might not see JA again. 

 

So JA's line in ep 14 is a direct reference to DH's line in ep 11 -- to emphasize the contrast on how DH said it back in ep 11, and then his reaction upon hearing it again in ep 14.

 

Also makes a lot of sense. Thank you!

 

I think PDnim really likes to play with contrasts (chib saram vs ae omma, the feeling of this line in Ep 11 vs Ep 14).

 

1 hour ago, Thomas Zhang said:

Wow this really impresses me. I'll take a pen copy it and put it in my video's script

 

Isn't it a great quote? Sometimes I counsel college students with this quote, when they're thinking about whether or not to break up with their boyfriends/ girlfriends. ("See how you feel when you're on summer break and apart from each other.") Haha.

 

1 hour ago, Thomas Zhang said:

So I think the pub is the place DH  originally wanted to drink alone. It is reasonable that if he confronts sth. bad and won't bother his brothers, he would go there alone. 

 

I think the meaning of he took JA to the pub is that the woman was becoming a confidante. He could share all his unhappiness and get comfort that he would never do these things with his wife.

 

Great insight! As we see, DH goes to the pub by himself in Ep 7 (before JA comes running to him) and Ep 10 (when he wants to get away from YH being at home). I think you're right; that's where he goes when he wants to be alone - he doesn't want to be at Jung Hee's bar with everyone, and he also doesn't want to be at home.

 

And great point of bringing JA there and letting her be a confidante.

 

To expand on this:

 

Commenter UC1970's on the GMS site said today that Yoon Hee said, "Everyone you hold dear is at Jung Hee's," ...and Dong Hoon brought Ji An to Jung Hee's! So he put her right in the middle of "everyone he held dear". I thought that was a great insight, too.

 

1 hour ago, Thomas Zhang said:

I also made a short video. 

 

Lovely video; thanks for sharing! The clips and music are beautiful.

 

6 hours ago, YukawaCattle said:

By the way, I am curious about who mentioned this evidence at first.

This Soompi member is amazing.

 

I found it!!  A profound piece by @oldschooler.

 

https://givemeslippers.wordpress.com/2018/11/01/seeing-through-a-glass-darkly/

 

This line was what had stuck with me before: "The random couples in Kojubang had licence of entry into the special restaurant where Dong Hoon and Ji An met regularly. Unless we know love and are touched by it, we have no business transgressing into their world."

 

I'll try to see if any other articles mentioned that it was only couples in that restaurant.

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32 minutes ago, the_sweetroad said:

I'll try to see if any other articles mentioned that it was only couples in that restaurant.

 

I wrote an article 2 weeks ago using psychoanalysts Lacan’s theory of mirror stage to analysis the meaning of all the mirror-image in drama, including  these two reflections .

 

I’ll try to translate it into English and share it here.spacer.png

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10 hours ago, actionscript said:

If I am to interpret his line on "So if we run into each other 10/20 years later," if just means if we are to part, we should part on friendly terms, not on an awkward manner just because I rejected your love confession. 

 

My take on this dialogue is that 10/20 has a subtext in itself.
I don't know when you guys would say such an exact number to someone, but in my experience,

I would only say 10/20 years to someone I want to keep in touch with for the rest of my life.
For ordinary people, if it doesn't matter I will meet them in the future or not, I will just say,

"If we meet someday in the future."
I won't say such precise numbers.

 

I think this dialogue is a psychological activity, just like the ending photo.
I don't know who will let you guys put a group photo on the table with him/her,

but from my personal experience, I will only put the group photo of someone who I want to be related to.
I think the group photo is a psychological substitute for wanting to be with him/her.

 

So I think the 10/20 years and the group photo are all subconscious things at the psychological level.
Thus I think 10/20 with a subtext here.
To me, it means that his subconscious didn't want to let her go.
That's why he said this dialogue, "I'm going to attend your grandmother's funeral. And I want you to come to my mother's funeral."
At this moment, he's already trying to find an excuse to keep in touch with her.

That's why later the dialogue "So if we run into each other 10/20 years later" shows up.
He wanted to keep in touch with her, so he said such precise numbers.

 

I think if the writer just wants to let "10/20 years" mean "in the future," she could just write "in the future."
She doesn't need to write "10/20 years."
I think such an accurate number has its usage.
I think it means DH's psychological activity.
It matches my personal experience, at least.

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On 1/16/2022 at 2:29 PM, the_sweetroad said:

I believe DH and JA are in this restaurant in:

Ep 6 after DH scolds her and thanks her for slapping Kim Dae Ri

Ep 7 twice, when DH wants to thank her and at the end after JA runs to him

Ep 8 in the beginning of the episode as a continuation of Ep 7's last scene

Ep 12 after Ji An's panel interview

Ep 16 during their farewell

Any other times?

 

And DH is there by himself at the end of Ep 10, when he sits at the bar and looks for her out the window.

 

EDIT: DH is also at the restaurant by himself in Episode 15.

 

On 1/17/2022 at 5:30 AM, actionscript said:

The ones in ep 6, 12, and 16 didn’t show any other people.

 

Just a note that the Ep 12 also has people, woo hoo!

 

So the only one without anyone in the background is Ep 16.

 

Here's Ep 6 again (since it's so hard to flip from the previous page to the next page sometimes):

 

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Episode 12

 

spacer.png

 

And even in Episode 10 when Dong Hoon goes to the bar by himself, there's a couple in the back:

 

spacer.png

 

EDIT:

 

In Episode 15, when DH is there alone, there's a couple in the background.

 

Spoiler

spacer.png

 

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As mentioned earlier, I wanted to compile updated comprehensive lists that showed:

 

1. Evidence of Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee's divorce

2. Evidence of Dong Hoon's feelings for Ji An

3. Evidence of Ji An's feelings for Dong Hoon throughout the show and final scene*** (see end of post)

 

We could probably also do a list of the evidence for the DH/ JA loveline, from what we've been talking about these last few pages.

 

Here's the first list, a compilation of breadcrumbs and evidence for Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee's divorce. Evidence will be stronger than breadcrumbs; breadcrumbs are little things sprinkled into the show that could be insignificant, but taken together seem to paint a good picture of what happens. The list is composed of dialogue and symbols from the show, informed by Give Me Slippers and excellent insights from you guys. Just wanted to bring it all together here for our easier reference. Let me know what I'm missing.

 

Some words/ dialogue/ symbols that are repeated - or particularly interesting - are in bold.

 

EVIDENCE AND BREADCRUMBS OF DONG HOON and YOON HEE'S DIVORCE

(dialogue from VIKI)

 

EPISODE 4

Yoon Hee meets with Do Joon Young at the Minette and she says: "If Dong Hoon had married some other woman, he would have had no problems. He's faithful and kind, but he is a bit lonely. So he makes the person with him feel lonely too. I tried all sorts of things, but I finally realized that I can't make him happy. He always seems like someone who has lost something. He's lost something, but what it is he doesn't know. So he always seemed to be wandering. Then he seemed to be resigned to it. 'I came the wrong way. This isn't the world I belong to.' Even so, he is faithful about his duty to his family, this frustrating man. Ah! I'm sick of this. I'm trying to justify having an affair somehow."

 

EPISODE 6

In this episode Dong Hoon discovers that Yoon Hee and Do Joon Young are having an affair.


EPISODE 7

In Dong Hoon's confrontation with Do Joon Young at the campsite, he asks DJY: "You trying to frame me for taking that bribe of 50 million won, did Yoon Hee know about that plan? ….That you were going to use that to get me fired, did Yoon Hee know or not?… Did she know or not?"

 

Do Joon Young turns away and doesn’t answer, so the assumed answer is yes (which is true).

 

Commentary: It's very important to Dong Hoon whether Yoon Hee knew about the plan to get him framed and fired. Not only was Yoon Hee having an affair, but she knew about the bribe and the plan to get Dong Hoon fired, but she didn't tell him about it? That's deep betrayal.

 

EPISODE 8

At omma’s birthday party, the family is talking about the three brothers drinking so much.

 

Ae Ryun: Sister-in-law, why don’t you scold your husband?

 

Yoon Hee: It’s not possible, I gave up.

 

Ae Ryun: Brother-in-law, please listen to me. In my entire life, I’ve never seen anyone who doesn’t put his wife first end up living properly in his latter years. Mother-in-law, I’m sorry, but this is the truth.

 

Omma: I agree that it’s true. Do you know what I wish for? That before I die, you all find your spouses and that I see you getting along well with them before I die. If husband and wife are just loyal to each other, it won’t matter if they become beggars. Even if war breaks out, there is nothing to fear.

 

Commentary: This is an interesting juxtaposition of Ae Ryun challenging Dong Hoon to "put his wife first" with omma saying that if a husband and wife are "just loyal" to each other, they'll get along well. Omma says she agrees that putting the wife first means the husband will live properly in his latter years, but she also brings up loyalty between spouses as seemingly her highest value. Combined with the flashbacks to the early days of their marriage, I wonder if this is another way the show is telling us what broke down in Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee's marriage. Dong Hoon had trouble putting Yoon Hee first, but Yoon Hee was disloyal to Dong Hoon. It has been argued she didn't put Dong Hoon first, either (more from this GMS article later).

 

EPISODE 9 (1)
Dong Hoon: I was going to buy some toothpaste. Need anything?

 

Yoon Hee: Every day, asking me what I need….But you have no idea what I really need. (She enters her office and shuts the door behind her.)

 

Cut to Dong Hoon picking up one beer can from the kitchen table to put in his recycling bag.

 

Yoon Hee (opening her office door): When were you going to tell me?

 

Dong Hoon: About what?

 

Yoon Hee: That you were nominated for managing director.

 

Dong Hoon: Ah.

 

Yoon Hee: Ah? I waited to see when you would tell me. Why do I have to hear about you from your mother?

 

Dong Hoon: Sorry. I didn’t know if I’ll even make it, so I didn’t know if I should tell you.

 

Yoon Hee: But you still told your mother everything? Older brother-in-law knows, and so does Younger brother-in-law. But I’m the only one who doesn’t know.

 

Dong Hoon: I’m sorry.

 

Yoon Hee: That damn, “I’m sorry, I’m sorry….”

 

Dong Hoon goes out with the recycling and drops the recycling bag, spilling a bunch of beer cans.

 

Commentary: As we know from later episodes, beer signifies Yoon Hee wants to talk to Dong Hoon. Here, the camera cuts to Dong Hoon picking up the beer can from the table in between Yoon Hee being honest with him about her needs and her hurt that she was the last to find out about his possible promotion. The fact that he then dropped a bunch of beer cans in the hallway could be a breadcrumb that he doesn't know what to do with nor how to handle all of Yoon Hee's requests and honest conversations.

 

EPISODE 9 (2)

Ji An and Yoon Hee meet at the Minette.

 

Yoon Hee: The money Joon Young said he would give you, I’ll give it to you. Just quietly quit your job at that company. I can make sure Joon Young won’t find you.

 

Ji An: Then Do Joon Young will find someone else to get Park Dong Hoon fired.

 

Yoon Hee: He can get fired. Even if I wasn’t a problem, once he was nominated for managing director, they would have fought it out, and one of them would have been fired. Whoever wins or not, let it happen, and you stay out of it. Structural engineers can get fired, but they won’t have any trouble making a living.

 

Ji An: So you’re thinking about staying with him.

 

Yoon Hee: Whether we stay together or not, it’s not your concern, so you just quietly disappear. It’s unpleasant. That someone knows about my embarrassment is unpleasant and that you are working at the same company as Dong Hoon is also unpleasant. (She goes on to say, "You recorded something like that and played it for me to hear? What couldn’t you do? The things you do are so ignorant and scary.")

 

Commentary: Aagh!!! Yoon Hee!! She really doesn't care if Dong Hoon keeps his job or gets fired, which I find shocking. We also see that she's saying things like "Whether we stay together or not." It is gratifying to think that by the end of the show, Yoon Hee is willing to let her "embarrassment" be exposed to everyone in order to save Ji An and to repay Dong Hoon.


EPISODE 10 (1)

Do Joon Young and Yoon Hee meet at the cafeteria.

 

Do Joon Young: [Sunbae] told me never to tell you that he knows. He was insistent. He told me to just break up with you quietly. That the day you find out he knows, you will never live with him again. I told him I broke up with you, and that’s what he thinks, so just pretend you know nothing, and just continue to live with him.

 

Yoon Hee: Is that possible? How much more shameless do I have to be, to do that?

 

EPISODE 10 (2)

Restaurant owner: I thought it would go away. But this wife who came back, I hate her even more. Seeing her make an effort, it’s hateful. Whatever she does, it’s hateful. It’s about whether I endure this for three years and then divorce, or endure for ten years and then divorce. 'Unless you’ve been through it, you can’t know how it feels.' What that saying means, I only truly realized it after my wife had an affair. It was such a common story line in dramas. The world was full of married people having affairs. But once it happened to me, I couldn’t find a way to explain it. When I’m still, this is all I think about. My wife with that guy…

 

Dong Hoon: So did you sign your divorce papers today?

 

Restaurant owner: (nods) Even someone like me is still living. Your life is so much better, so why do you always look so sad?

 

Commentary: This is probably the clearest representation of what Dong Hoon is thinking and feeling at this point of the show. He has decided to endure and stay with Yoon Hee, but as we see in flashbacks when the restaurant owner says, "When I'm still, this is all I think about. My wife with that guy...." Dong Hoon also can't stop thinking about Do Joon Young sleeping with Yoon Hee. As the restaurant owner puts it, it was only inevitable he would get a divorce eventually, the question for him was just when.

 

EPISODE 11

Yoon Hee proposes a drink to Dong Hoon and they sit down to cans of beer. She tries to confess about the affair, but he dodges the conversation completely.

 

Commentary: In the show's symbolism, for Yoon Hee, beer means she wants to have a serious conversation. Perhaps Dong Hoon kept the soccer game on because he knew what was coming, hehe.

 

EPISODE 12 (1)

Yoon Hee has confessed about the affair at the end of Episode 11 and in this episode we're shown more details from their conversation. One important detail is that Yoon Hee hates Hugye and everyone around Dong Hoon.

 

Also:

Yoon Hee: I know that whatever I say, I can never be forgiven. 100 times, 1000 times, I know I committed a crime punishable by death….What you are most afraid of, what you want to avoid most, I know what it is. The reason you don’t want to break up this marriage isn’t because you have any affection left for me, is it?

 

(No answer from Dong Hoon)

 

Yoon Hee: `Thinking of Mother and Ji Soek, let’s live quietly together for a while.’ If you want that, I’ll do that. When you say, `I can’t do this anymore, I can’t live with you, let’s end this.’ Then I’ll do that. I will do whatever you want to do.

 

Dong Hoon: I have no intention of forcing you to live with me just to make my life easier, while giving you a hard time. But after meeting you and living with you 20 years, how I have to end this, from what point do I have to turn this over…I just don’t know. I thought I could endure this if you didn’t know that I knew. But it’s become too difficult now. For you and for me, both.

 

Commentary: As this GMS article, Bringing Our Twenty Years to an End, puts it, "in his confrontation with Yoon Hee, Dong Hoon says it himself. The question is not whether they should end their marriage, but how to end it," and "For Dong Hoon, he was never torn over ‘whether or not to divorce’ (it was already a foregone conclusion), but over how to end their relationship."

 

EPISODE 12 (2)

Yoon Hee confronts Do Joon Young on the rooftop.

 

Do Joon Young: You can’t tell Dong Hoon about her [Lee Ji An] because you’re thinking of me? You’re trying to make your marriage work somehow but if he finds out that you know about her, you think Sunbae will completely abandon you, so you can’t. You are the most cowardly one.

 

Yoon Hee: That may be true, but I’m not a piece of trash like you are. Our marriage is over anyway. Dong Hoon and I, do you know what kind of hell we’re living in? It’s hell for him to come home to a woman who had an affair with the man he despises. And it’s hell for me because I must endure his loathing. Because of you, who Dong Hoon despises so much, I’m trying to make it look as if his family didn’t break up because of you, so if he curses me, I have to take it, and if he scolds me, I have to take it. I have to accept all of his loathing until it begins to feel that we’re breaking up not because of you, but because of me. That we’re breaking up because he has no affection left for me at all. Waiting until he can see it that way, that is the last thing I can do for Dong Hoon. And this is my punishment for having ever liked someone like you, like an idiot. My punishment for having betrayed Dong Hoon.

 

Do Joon Young: Why are all the women around Park Dong Hoon like this? (Just had to throw this in here because it's too funny.)


A few minutes later, Yoon Hee calls Ji An:

Yoon Hee: You…do you really like Dong Hoon?

Ji An: Yes.

Yoon Hee: All right. Anyway, thanks. Thank you for calling me first. (Breaks down crying)

 

Commentary: If we had any doubt that Dong Hoon hated Yoon Hee as the restaurant owner had hated his wife, Yoon Hee confirms that it's true. She has to endure Dong Hoon's loathing at home, and she claims their marriage is over and they'll eventually break up because he has no affection for her at all. She wants to wait until there's enough distance from the affair with Do Joon Young so that Do Joon Young doesn't linger in their memory as the reason for the divorce. But a divorce is inevitable in her mind. So now we've heard from Dong Hoon that he's thinking about how to end things, and Yoon Hee is also thinking about when their break-up will happen.

 

A breadcrumb here is what Do Joon Young says about Dong Hoon abandoning Yoon Hee once he finds out Yoon Hee knows Ji An.


EPISODE 15

Dong Hoon visits Yoon Hee in her home office after finding out that Ji An is on the run.

 

Yoon Hee: It’s all right, feel free to tell me. I’ll do whatever you want, whenever you want.

 

Dong Hoon: Do you know Lee Ji An?

 

Yoon Hee: One day, Joon Young sent me a resume. He wanted me to look into her. I found out later what she was doing for him. She was the one who let me know what kind of person Joon Young was. That girl…she tried to send me back to you. But I found out, by intuition, that she liked you. I broke up with Joon Young and told her to quit her job at the company. I didn’t like that she knew of my embarrassment and that she would be near you. It made me apprehensive. I offered to give her the money that Joon Young agreed to give her. She refused it. She said that if she left, Joon Young would get someone else to get you fired. She was doing all she could to protect you. And I found that even more agonizing. It made me want to die.

 

Dong Hoon tells her Ji An is on the run, and will stay on the run.

 

Dong Hoon: Because if she did get caught, she would have to tell everything. How it all began…and the situation between you and Joon Young. She knows what would make things most difficult for me. She knows.

 

Yoon Hee: Let’s tell, Honey. Let’s tell everything. We can’t let her continue to run away. Let’s tell everything, Honey. I’m sorry. I’m really sorry that I’ve made things this way.

 

Commentary: Dong Hoon now knows that Yoon Hee knew Ji An, and about what Ji An was doing, and didn't tell him. Based on what Do Joon Young said earlier, it follows that Dong Hoon will feel even more betrayed and Yoon Hee will think Dong Hoon has even more reason to divorce her.

 

An aside: The word "know" comes up again here. In Episode 12, Yoon Hee said she knew why Dong Hoon didn't want to break up the marriage, because he wanted to stay in it for the sake of omma and Ji Seok. And Dong Hoon here says that Ji An knows that exposing the affair would make things most difficult for him. Both women know him.


EPISODE 16 (1)

Yoon Hee and Ji An are at the police station.

 

Yoon Hee: Why did you erase the recordings that were saved in your phone?

 

Ji An: Because they contained stuff about you, too, ahjumma. The stuff that will be most difficult for ahjussi to deal with.

 

Later:

 

Yoon Hee: Are you punishing me?

 

Ji An: Why did you cheat on him? I was just curious. Why would you cheat on someone like ahjussi?

 

Yoon Hee: I can give you 100, 1000 reasons. But I don't know if there is a real reason among them.

 

Commentary: Yoon Hee realizes that Ji An really does know Dong Hoon and the things that will be "most difficult" for him. Also, in Episode 12 she says, "100 times, 1000 times, I know I committed a crime punishable by death." Here she says she had 100, 1000 reasons for cheating on him. I haven't thought much about this, but this hyperbole seems to say that Yoon Hee knows she couldn't have stayed with Dong Hoon, and she feels she really did commit a devastating crime against Dong Hoon.

 

EPISODE 16 (2)

Yoon Hee asks Dong Hoon to bring home beer. The next scene is Dong Hoon visiting omma and Ki Hoon at home.

 

Omma: You took daughter-in-law to the airport?

 

Dong Hoon: Yes.

 

Omma: When is she coming back?

 

Dong Hoon: The week after the next.

 

Omma: Why is she there for so long?

 

Dong Hoon: While she's there, she's also going to look into her own school.

 

Omma: She's going to study again? For what? It's right for her to be there to take care of Ji Seok. But just to educate a child, leaving the child's father alone like this isn't right either.

 

Ki Hoon: Hyung, come in to live with us as well.

 

Omma: What are you saying! (slaps Ki Hoon)

 

Commentary: Ki Hoon knows what's up.

 

EPISODE 16 (3)

The family picture of Yoon Hee, Ji Seok, and Dong Hoon is gone from his new office. Three photos of Yoon Hee and Ji Seok are shown, as well as one of the three brothers on their getaway trip.

 

Dong Hoon calls Yoon Hee "ae omma" when talking to his acquaintance at the cafe.

 

Commentary: Dong Hoon is so relaxed and open after the time skip, for one.

 

Here it’s the contrasts that matter - previously there had been a picture of the family, and now there are three photos of Yoon Hee and Ji Seok in America. This seems to firmly establish that Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee are no longer a couple (since they're not shown together at all on his desk), as well as Yoon Hee's continued presence in America.

 

Additionally, previously he had called Yoon Hee "chib saram" all through the show:

Episode 2 as a contact in his phone

Episode 10 when he tells the other directors he's ready to go for the promotion and help his wife earn money

Episode 15 when he tells Ji An his wife will help her at the police station, and that his wife talked in his phone to Ji An.

Episode 16 when he's at omma's house and he tells Sang Hoon he's waiting for his wife to call.

 

So to call her "ae omma" now is an important contrast. Personally I don't think Dong Hoon would have naturally, comfortably called Yoon Hee "ae omma" if they were still married-but-separated. If they were still married-but-separated, knowing him he would've called her "chib saram" until he died. The fact that "ae omma" rolls off his tongue in the coffee shop while talking to an acquaintance means that it's been a while since he started calling Yoon Hee that. Which, to me, means they're divorced....and have been for a while.

 

One last clue: in the final voiceover, Dong Hoon says "Ji An" instead of "Ji An-ssi". I don't think Dong Hoon would have ever allowed himself to address Ji An in that intimate way if he were still married.

 

@actionscript says:

 

Dong Hoon now has a photo of him with his brothers. I actually kind of see the arrangement of the photos like frames of a cartoon show – DH used to be with YH and Ji Seok, and then he jumped over and is now with his brothers. LOL! That is significant because he never had that photo before in his desks or at home. So with YH leaving, it is a representation of him taking Ki hoon’s offer to move back in with them, not physically, but mentally.

 

Also, one of YH’s complaint was DH considering his omma and his brothers as still his primary family. So if they have reconciled, why would he put a photo of him with his brothers that he knew would antagonize YH?

 

Something I’ve been wanting to say that many people have looked over. For a man, seeing your wife sleep with a stranger is bad enough. The first impulse you’d have is to go beat the crap out of that man, or do something worse. But instead of being able to do that, that man instead gets every chance he got to mock you and bully you at work! And still you have to bow down to that man because he is the boss! That’s unspeakable hell!! It’s like that man mocking and spitting directly to your face – I’m getting my way with your wife, and to top it off, I’m getting my way with you at work! 

 

There is no exaggeration when DH said it all felt like YH wanted him dead. I have friends ask me if that is what a man really feels when cheated upon. I’d say probably not. For me it’s not just about YH’s infidelity, it was the entire picture I described above that aggravated the situation.

 

To have people still think such a scenario is salvageable is beyond me. But that’s because the show had made the gravity of the entire situation subtle, and shown in little snippets scattered throughout the show.

 

Other meta-insights from the excellent Give Me Slippers post, Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee: Did They Divorce or Not?

 

Yoon Hee doesn’t have photos of DH on her office desk or her home desk.


Both Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee feel stuffy and trapped in their marriage, and have to open the windows to their apartment for some relief. Besides the examples cited in this GMS post, one more scene is right after Yoon Hee calls Dong Hoon and says that Ki Hoon was there and knows about the affair. Yoon Hee runs to the window, opens it, and closes her eyes as the breeze comes in.


Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee have completely different values as far as family (as symbolized by her choice of coffee vs his choice of tea). Yoon Hee wants all of Dong Hoon’s attention and wants to be his top priority. But Dong Hoon feels he needs to be available for his family and friends.

 

DIVORCE LAWS:

I read that in Korea, if a divorce is mutually agreed upon then the couple can proceed. However, if it's a "disputed divorce" then a trial is needed. And - important point - if you are the cheating spouse, you are not allowed to take your spouse to trial. It has to be the scorned spouse that files for a divorce in that case. (Hopefully a native Korean can correct me if I'm wrong.) My understanding is that Dong Hoon would have to agree to a divorce or take Yoon Hee to court; she could never free herself unless Dong Hoon agreed.

 

I believe this plays into the story, because in the end it would still have to be Dong Hoon saying "Yes, let's divorce, let's take that step." He would have to decisively act. As Yoon Hee said in the beginning of Episode 12 and in the beginning of Episdoe 15, she was always ready to do what Dong Hoon wanted her to do, whether to stay with him for the sake of his family or break up. Her deferring to him makes sense if we think that she wasn't able to file for divorce without him. So I believe Dong Hoon finally spoke up and freed both of them in the end.

 

TREES/ FOREST

 

See @YukawaCattle's insightful posts here as a clue to Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee divorcing:

 

 

 

Note: I did not include the early scenes of Yoon Hee and Joon Young planning for YH to get a divorce after DH got fired, nor did I include Do Joon Young telling Yoon Hee she would never get a divorce. If you guys think I should include those scenes in this compilation let me know.

 

And let me know what I missed!

 

~

 

***EDIT: To see Ji An's feelings for Dong Hoon, visit @actionscript's lists of Ji An's most romantic moments here, here, and here:

 

 

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I still feel uncertain about 2 scenes although I've watched 7 times.

 

The first one is in EP7, when DJY falls and gets hurt at the camp, DH takes him to the hospital. DH demand DJY should not let YH knows that DH knows their affair.

 

This conversation is shown to the audience through JA's perspective. And when JA heard what DH's demanding, she stops washing dishes, turns back, squats down. I feel she is kind of unhappy at that time.

 

I am quite not sure about JA's feelings and gestures.

 

Why does Directer want to show us this?

 

Is she disappointed about DH's choice for he would not choose to divorce so she couldn't get her lover?  ( but I really don't think so)

 

Or just feel sorry about this pitiful man?

 

 


The second one is in EP9,  JA at YH's office, told YH that DH has already known her infidelity. 

 

(At that time, DH estranges JA because of the call from the loanshark)

 

From what kind of motivation JA would do that?

 

According to the first question, JA knows that DH doesn't want YH to know.

 

 JA’s behavior is a directly consequence of DH&YH ‘s marriage's breakdown —— It is her who let DH knows the infidelity.  It is also her who let YH knows that DH knows.

 

What even strange is , YH considers that JA wants her to go back to DH.

 

 

 

Any thoughts about these?

 

 

Edited by Thomas Zhang
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16 hours ago, actionscript said:

Thanks for re-posting! It’s always fun to re-read them as it’s been awhile.

 

Thank you. :bawling:

 

14 hours ago, actionscript said:

First the context: JA confessed her love for DH the night before which DH technically did not accept. The next day, JA threw the slippers, so it seemed JA is starting to cut ties with DH after she was rejected. Her actions gave credence to the fact that her spiel the night before was indeed a love confession, and not just an act for the photographer, no? DH saw the slippers gone and have realized that JA is indeed starting to distance herself. He ran after her to basically say, sure you confessed and I didn't accept. That doesn't mean we should now feel awkward towards each other. We should stay as friends, and I won't fire you, you'd stay until the end of your contract.

 

If I am to interpret his line on "So if we run into each other 10/20 years later," it just means if we are to part, we should part on friendly terms, not on an awkward manner just because I rejected your love confession. 

 

But that line was referenced again  in ep 14 when JA threw that back to him with “Will you greet me happily when we run into each other?" His body language seem to indicate that it dawned on him now that perhaps seeing JA go, the person that helps him breathe, and just getting to meet her some time again in the future, is not how he would have wanted for things to go. 

 

So in ep 11, it was a deception at the subconscious level, and it came forth into consciousness when JA threw it back at him in ep 14, when he felt the gravity, the shock, that he might not see JA again. 

 

So JA's line in ep 14 is a direct reference to DH's line in ep 11 -- to emphasize the contrast on how DH said it back in ep 11, and then his reaction upon hearing it again in ep 14.

 

After reading your analysis, I update my interpretation of EP11.

 

DH didn't tell JA to wait for him. 
He just didn't know what to do at that time.
But he knew he didn't want to lose contact with her. 

So in this scene, he told her that he wanted to keep in touch with her.

(I check his idea from "10/20 years." To me, such accurate numbers mean that he wants to keep in touch with her forever, or he could just said "in the future.")

 

On the other side, he actually hoped that JA would continue to love him. 

 

He told her to buy him another pair of slippers.
He clearly knew that the slippers contained JA's love, but he still asked her to buy another one for him. (´・ω・`)
I think from a girl's perspective, it sounds like: 

 

Spoiler

spacer.png

 

Your love belongs to me, and you are not allowed to throw it away without my authorization!

 

 

So, DH in this scene is really very selfish. 
He can't promise her anything. 
He clearly knows that JA loves him, but he still doesn't want her to leave him, nor does he want her not to love him.
Of course, these are all things at the level of his subconscious. 
He only knows that he doesn't want to lose his connection with her on the surface. 
Just as you said before, the subconscious really surfaced in EP14.
Also, as @Thomas Zhang said, DH is a self-deceiver.
This is my current opinion of this scene.


I think it is really a confession scene for DH.
But just a bit of a domineering president. (´・ω・`)

 

---

 

14 hours ago, Thomas Zhang said:

I also made a short video.  But for the reason of copyright YTB forbade me uploading it. 

So I share it on this site.

【我的大叔】至安 CUT - Fall in love_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

Hoping you guys enjoy it.

 

The song I choose is a Japnese song named “恋におちて -Fall In love-“ sang by Akiko Kobayashi (小林明子).

 

Thanks for sharing it.

Your MV is really nice.

It is cute and warm.

 

13 hours ago, Thomas Zhang said:

I wrote an article 2 weeks ago using psychoanalysts Lacan’s theory of mirror stage to analysis the meaning of all the mirror-image in drama, including  these two reflections .

 

I’ll try to translate it into English and share it here.

 


I am looking forward to seeing your analysis.
You are awesome.
You make me consider if I need to read some psychology.

 

---

 

 

13 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

Great insight! As we see, DH goes to the pub by himself in Ep 7 (before JA comes running to him) and Ep 10 (when he wants to get away from YH being at home). I think you're right; that's where he goes when he wants to be alone - he doesn't want to be at Jung Hee's bar with everyone, and he also doesn't want to be at home.

 

And great point of bringing JA there and letting her be a confidante.

 

To expand on this:

 

Commenter UC1970's on the GMS site said today that Yoon Hee said, "Everyone you hold dear is at Jung Hee's," ...and Dong Hoon brought Ji An to Jung Hee's! So he put her right in the middle of "everyone he held dear". I thought that was a great insight, too.

 

Oh my god.

UC1970's comment is really nice.

Thanks for sharing it!

 

13 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

I found it!!  A profound piece by @oldschooler.

 

https://givemeslippers.wordpress.com/2018/11/01/seeing-through-a-glass-darkly/

 

This line was what had stuck with me before: "The random couples in Kojubang had licence of entry into the special restaurant where Dong Hoon and Ji An met regularly. Unless we know love and are touched by it, we have no business transgressing into their world."

 

I'll try to see if any other articles mentioned that it was only couples in that restaurant.

 

Thanks for the link!

@oldschooler, you are awesome!

 

6 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

As mentioned earlier, I wanted to compile updated comprehensive lists that showed:

 

1. Evidence of Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee's divorce

2. Evidence of Dong Hoon's feelings for Ji An

3. Evidence of Ji An's feelings for Dong Hoon throughout the show and final scene

 

We could probably also do a list of the evidence for the DH/ JA loveline, from what we've been talking about these last few pages.

 

Here's the first list, a compilation of breadcrumbs and evidence for Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee's divorce. Evidence will be stronger than breadcrumbs; breadcrumbs are little things sprinkled into the show that could be insignificant, but taken together seem to paint a good picture of what happens. The list is composed of dialogue and symbols from the show, informed by Give Me Slippers and excellent insights from you guys. Just wanted to bring it all together here for our easier reference. Let me know what I'm missing.

 

Some words/ dialogue/ symbols that are repeated - or particularly interesting - are in bold.

 

Thanks for organizing these shreds of evidence. :hooray:

 

6 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

Do Joon Young turns away and doesn’t answer, so the assumed answer is yes (which is true).

 

Commentary: It's very important to Dong Hoon whether Yoon Hee knew about the plan to get him framed and fired. Not only was Yoon Hee having an affair, but she knew about the bribe and the plan to get Dong Hoon fired, but she didn't tell him about it? That's deep betrayal.

 

Yes, DJY always tells us many important things.
I love him, lol.

 

6 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

EPISODE 11

Yoon Hee proposes a drink to Dong Hoon and they sit down to cans of beer. She tries to confess about the affair, but he dodges the conversation completely.

 

Commentary: In the show's symbolism, for Yoon Hee, beer means she wants to have a serious conversation. Perhaps Dong Hoon kept the soccer game on because he knew what was coming, hehe.


Yes.

We can see DH's expression being really reluctant while drinking the beer.

He knew what YH was going to say.

 

6 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

Commentary: As this GMS article, Bringing Our Twenty Years to an End, puts it, "in his confrontation with Yoon Hee, Dong Hoon says it himself. The question is not whether they should end their marriage, but how to end it," and "For Dong Hoon, he was never torn over ‘whether or not to divorce’ (it was already a foregone conclusion), but over how to end their relationship."

 

DH's mentality reminds me of when I was in college, lol.
I obviously read a department that I didn't like, but I didn't dare to change it because I got used to it for a long time.
He was still in his comfort zone mentally.

 

6 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

Commentary: Dong Hoon now knows that Yoon Hee knew Ji An, and about what Ji An was doing, and didn't tell him. Based on what Do Joon Young said earlier, it follows that Dong Hoon will feel even more betrayed and Yoon Hee will think Dong Hoon has even more reason to divorce her.

 

Love DJY again, lol.

 

6 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

Commentary: Yoon Hee realizes that Ji An really does know Dong Hoon and the things that will be "most difficult" for him. Also, in Episode 12 she says, "100 time, 1000 times, I know I committed a crime punishable by death." Here she says she had 100, 1000 reasons for cheating on him. I haven't thought much about this, but this hyperbole seems to say that Yoon Hee knows she couldn't have stayed with Dong Hoon, and she feels she really did commit a devastating crime against Dong Hoon.

 

YH's this dialogue for me is writer tells us her personality and value system still didn't change.

She still hopes to leave Hugye, still hopes that DH only loves her, and still hates the people around DH.
Because I think if her values change, she should be able to say "real reason," such as "I used to be too selfish, that's why I betrayed DH," or "I just didn't understand DH before. That's why I do some bad things."
If a person can say his/her past problems clearly, his/her values have changed.
But she told us, "I don't know if there is a real reason among them," which means that she has not changed her value system. That is to say, the writer suggested to us that the two of them were still not compatible in personality until the end.
So to me, one of the reasons why it would be unreasonable if they were not divorced, is that the two would definitely go back to their old ways and argue again.

 

6 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

Ki Hoon: Hyung, come in to live with us as well.

 

Errrrrr...
The translation of this dialogue on Netflix is "Come in to help us" in Chinese.
So I didn't notice that the real dialogue is "live with us." 
I think this is a really important detail.
Thanks for mentioning this dialogue.

 

6 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

TREES/ FOREST

 

See @YukawaCattle's insightful posts here as a clue to Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee divorcing:

 

 

Thanks for re-post it. :hooray:

 

-

 

Also, @the_sweetroad, I think JA's dialogue will make YH a shock. 

 

Spoiler

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"I've known DH for twenty years, and it turns out that I don't know him better than the girl who's known him for only three months. I lose."

 

Spoiler

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Like that.

 

So it was she who would take the initiative to talk about divorce first, not DH.

 

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15 hours ago, Thomas Zhang said:

I also made a short video.  But for the reason of copyright YTB forbade me uploading it. 

So I share it on this site.

【我的大叔】至安 CUT - Fall in love_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

Hoping you guys enjoy it.

 

The song I choose is a Japnese song named “恋におちて -Fall In love-“ sang by Akiko Kobayashi (小林明子).

 

Very beautiful video! I’m actually quite familiar with this song in another language, and only learned now that it was actually a Japanese original.

 

13 hours ago, YukawaCattle said:

So I think the 10/20 years and the group photo are all subconscious things at the psychological level.
Thus I think 10/20 with a subtext here.
To me, it means that his subconscious didn't want to let her go.
That's why he said this dialogue, "I'm going to attend your grandmother's funeral. And I want you to come to my mother's funeral."
At this moment, he's already trying to find an excuse to keep in touch with her.

 

Very good points! When he requested JA to call him once halmeoni would pass away – yes I immediately caught that as a desperate attempt by DH to keep JA in his life, aside from of course the genuine desire to help her provide a proper burial for halmeoni.

 

@the_sweetroad We were talking about how the show made sure JA never got a single cent from DH with regards to her debt to Kwang Il. And it dawned on me now that even the expenses for halmoeni’s funeral was courtesy of Sang Hoon, to keep the slate clean when it comes to DH extending any financial help.

 

10 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

Just a note that the Ep 12 also has people, woo hoo!

 

So the only one without anyone in the background is Ep 16.

 

Yes the PDnim really intended to show that their regular resto-bar is indeed a couples' hangout place. So the only odd man out was actually DH himself on when he would spend time there alone in ep 7 (before JA ran to the place) and in ep 10. But before those two occasions, DH already spent time there with JA twice – in ep 6 and first part of ep 7. So DH being there alone was perhaps to reminisce about the time he spent there with JA, or he was in fact hoping for JA to be passing by as well (as we saw in the last part of ep 7).

 

7 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

EVIDENCE AND BREADCRUMBS OF DONG HOON and YOON HEE'S DIVORCE

 

Woah! Such detailed and complete compilation!

 

I think worth mentioning also about the photos in his new desk is the fact that he now has a photo of him with his brothers. I actually kind of see the arrangement of the photos like frames of a cartoon show – DH used to be with YH and Ji Seok, and then he jumped over and is now with his brothers. LOL! That is significant because he never had that photo before in his desks or at home. So with YH leaving, it is a representation of him taking Ki hoon’s offer to move back in with them, not physically, but mentally.

 

Also, one of YH’s complaint was DH considering his omma and his brothers as still his primary family. So if they have reconciled, why would he put a photo of him with his brothers that he knew would antagonize YH?

 

 

Just additional thoughts not about your list, but something I’ve been wanting to say that many people have looked over. For a man, seeing your wife sleep with a stranger is bad enough. The first impulse you’d have is to go beat the crap out of that man, or do something worse. But instead of being able to do that, that man instead gets every chance he got to mock you and bully you at work! And still you have to bow down to that man because he is the boss! That’s unspeakable hell!! It’s like that man mocking and spitting directly to your face – I’m getting my way with your wife, and to top it off, I’m getting my way with you at work! 

 

There is no exaggeration when DH said it all felt like YH wanted him dead. I have friends ask me if that is what a man really feels when cheated upon. I’d say probably not. For me it’s not just about YH’s infidelity, it was the entire picture I described above that aggravated the situation.

 

To have people still think such a scenario is salvageable is beyond me. But that’s because the show had made the gravity of the entire situation subtle, and shown in little snippets scattered throughout the show. In the same way it treated the love line between JA and DH – subtle and in little snippets scattered around, causing many to miss it.

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9 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

He always seems like someone who has lost something. He's lost something, but what it is he doesn't know. So he always seemed to be wandering.

These words could be regarded as a foretell of the JA‘s true character. If we just watch this drama once, we'd never really understand why  would DH be so upset when he lost JA. Now we can learn that, JA is the "precious"  that he’s been looking for.

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4 hours ago, Thomas Zhang said:

Why does Directer want to show us this?

 

Good question!

I think about it before.

 

4 hours ago, Thomas Zhang said:

Is she disappointed about DH's choice for he would not choose to divorce so she couldn't get her lover?  ( but I really don't think so)

 

And I prefer this one.

I think it is human nature.

So I think in the ending of EP7, her action show us she will always put DH first.

I think this fact will make her love even more touching.

 

4 hours ago, Thomas Zhang said:

From what kind of motivation JA would do that?

 

According to the first question, JA knows that DH doesn't want YH to know.


I think she's choosing between "Let YH know the truth" and "Protect DH's promotion."
In the end, she chose the latter one.
After all, as long as YH doesn't tell DH she already knows, it's basically fine.
But if JA is forced back by YH at this moment, she can't protect DH anymore.

 

4 hours ago, Thomas Zhang said:

What even strange is , YH considers that JA wants her to go back to DH.

 

YH probably thinks JA is doing the right thing, because she really feels sorry to DH.

 

---

 

3 hours ago, actionscript said:

@the_sweetroad We were talking about how the show made sure JA never got a single cent from DH with regards to her debt to Kwang Il. And it dawned on me now that even the expenses for halmoeni’s funeral was courtesy of Sang Hoon, to keep the slate clean when it comes to DH extending any financial help.


I was also curious about it before.

Why SH will want to do so, but not DH.

You really have a great observation.

 

3 hours ago, actionscript said:

Yes the PDnim really intended to show that their regular resto-bar is indeed a couples' hangout place. So the only odd man out was actually DH himself on when he would spend time there alone in ep 7 (before JA ran to the place) and in ep 10. But before those two occasions, DH already spent time there with JA twice – in ep 6 and first part of ep 7. So DH being there alone was perhaps to reminisce about the time he spent there with JA, or he was in fact hoping for JA to be passing by as well (as we saw in the last part of ep 7).

 

Yes.
I think he was waiting for her there on purpose.
He seemed to be in the restaurant whenever he missed her.
We can also see such a case in EP15.

 

Spoiler

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3 hours ago, actionscript said:

Just additional thoughts not about your list, but something I’ve been wanting to say that many people have looked over. For a man, seeing your wife sleep with a stranger is bad enough. The first impulse you’d have is to go beat the crap out of that man, or do something worse. But instead of being able to do that, that man instead gets every chance he got to mock you and bully you at work! And still you have to bow down to that man because he is the boss! That’s unspeakable hell!! It’s like that man mocking and spitting directly to your face – I’m getting my way with your wife, and to top it off, I’m getting my way with you at work! 

 

There is no exaggeration when DH said it all felt like YH wanted him dead. I have friends ask me if that is what a man really feels when cheated upon. I’d say probably not. For me it’s not just about YH’s infidelity, it was the entire picture I described above that aggravated the situation.

 

Wow.

Thanks for sharing the man's perspective, or I think I won't understand DH's feeling.

 

And I always think about why not DH just divorce YH and be with JA before 3/4 of EP16.
I think it is easier and happier.

Besides, he can easily say these words to others. Why it is so hard to himself?

 

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Spoiler

spacer.png

 

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Speaking of the drink, DH actually often have a bottle of coffee supplying from the company. Yes indeed it's may be a implant advertising. And I remember he drinks this bottle of coffee outside JH‘s bar,EP12 when they are leaving for a football match.

Think about where does JA find DH?  A cafe, right?

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So,our engineer actually does not hate coffee.  He just won't have a cup of coffee with YH.

Just like DH can share his passions, but he won't share it to anyone only if it is JA.

 

What about YH?

We can see that she drinks wine, coffee. But I remember when she come to celebration of DH's promotion, someone (may be DH's sister-in-law?)  pour a glass of soju. I watched very carefully that if she drinks it.

She doe not. She just put it  on the table. Not better than drinks a little.

But JA would drink soju with DH or others in JH's bar.

 

 

With regard to the beer, we all know that JA's first smile is happened in their beer drinking.

And beer is also a signal that YH want to talk about something like infidelity or divorce with DH.

 

Edited by Thomas Zhang
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29 minutes ago, YukawaCattle said:

I think she's choosing between "Let YH know the truth" and "Protect DH's promotion."
In the end, she chose the latter one.
After all, as long as YH doesn't tell DH she already knows, it's basically fine.
But if JA is forced back by YH at this moment, she can't protect DH anymore.

Thanks for the explanation ! 

It is also shows JA is a wisdom and calm woman, not a girl who is infatuated with her first love.

4 hours ago, YukawaCattle said:

Errrrrr...
The translation of this dialogue on Netflix is "Come in to help us" in Chinese.
So I didn't notice that the real dialogue is "live with us." 
I think this is a really important detail.
Thanks for mentioning this dialogue.

Oh the Netflix translation has so many mistakes.

The unofficial Chinese translation I watched  showed me that  "二哥你也搬过来一起住吧” ( Come to live with us, second Brother )

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