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Go Seung Ji

[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category

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24 minutes ago, rocher22 said:

Dong Mae,  its  never boring with him. 

He always does something unexpected.

But, I really cant with you baby...

 

 

I like you, you are fun. Lol

 

Thank you for not  put the blame on the girl whose had her hair cut, at the era and culture when hair means much more than well, a hair. Just because she is thought to not know any better.

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1 hour ago, miracle23 said:

 A noble woman cutting off her hair symbolises also cutting her relationship with her parents. Our Korean Soompier can help me verify with this please. So far, this is my understanding.

 

@mistymorning come help us. Correct me here please chingu! :blush:


In my limited understanding of Kdrama, Ae Shin's long hair, braided and adorned with ribbons (daenggi) and side of head decorate with pretty hairpins (dwikkoji) signified a maiden, unmarried woman.  Hairstyle will change to a chignon when the girl is married.

 

Hair length is also representing the person's inner strength.  In Joseon period, it is forbidden to cut hair since it is viewed as a legacy from their parents and thus something has to be preserved.

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 @miracle23, On "A noble woman cutting off her hair symbolises also cutting her relationship with her parents. "

 

By the Confucian belief, all body parts are from your parents and you may not damage it. This is considered as a filial duty. Along with being loyal to the king, filial duty is considered the one of the 2 major virtues in the Joseon Society. This esp. true for men. For women, they're allowed to cut her hair to sell it, supporting their married family. But... there is no such need for Aeshin. And remember, even though she's an RA sniper, she is also trained by Confucian philosophy in the most renowned Confucian scholar family. 

 

If she did it herself like Eugene did, we can consider this as AS cutting ties with old traditional ways. - not cutting ties with your parents, you'll never be able to cut ties with your parents in Joseon unless your parents cut it.  - But DM did it, and I'm planning to come back with recap of that part later, from my viewing DM did it to stop Aeshin from risking herself by fighting as RA. This is urgh... DM forcing his will on AS even though she didn't, and doesn't want any of his opinions.

 

And you can see from next episode she's out in western clothing as sniper again. So what did DM achieve from his behavior? Nothing!  Except smearing already tarnished AS's name, doing that in public. This is crazy stuff even by modern standard, unthinkable in that time.

 

KES is writing DM on really fine line, being part of love square... he's going over step constantly. I know this is DM's characterization, but urgh........ any hope of AS reciprocation of DM's love is gone. Only thing left is probably friend, at best.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, miracle23 said:

I don't know if any of you have watched the princess man drama. A noble woman cutting off her hair symbolises also cutting her relationship with her parents. Our Korean Soompier can help me verify with this please. So far, this is my understanding. After the telegram intel, I believe the most plausible reason for DM's action could be this. He knows WI is trying to solve the puzzle of AS and the identity of her parents. His action was shocking, yes. He also knows she might kill him for it. He did say he doesn't even care if she becomes his enemy. This is the second time he asks for her to basically kill him if she doesn't agree with whatever he did. He doesn't need her understanding. He will just protect her as he sees fit. That is just his personality. EC and HS are more finesse in their behaviour towards AS. But not DM. Ok I will continue later. I would like to watch ep 19 first before I can deliberate more on DM's action as I feel there is more to it than meets the eye, based on my understanding of the cutting hair thingy. Of course DM is not a bad guy here, he is one of the good guys, ruthlessness notwithstanding. He is just a little brute, a grumpy member of the team who would disagree at everything but eventually follow through with the plan. Just like those grumpy brute but softie dwarf of the LOTR:tounge_xd:. Don't be too serious ladies. Everything is done for a reason. Give him the benefit of a doubt. Wait for next week for more explanation. 

 

Cheers!

 

I do not know about that drama, but I found in a book that indeed cutting the hair symbolizes cutting the ties with one's parents. The idea seems to be that one should value's one body since the body pertains not to him or her, but to his or her parents (it is part of the Confucianism ideal). This is why there was opposition to cutting one's hair. It seems that in 1920 a woman, a woman rights activist, cut her hair in protest. (for more see Eclipsed Cinema: The Film Culture of Colonial Korea, p. 196: I read from it on Google)

 

If this is what the scriptwriter goes for, I think it might be that DM's message for AS is to cut her ties with her upbringing values and embrace more encompassing values. It might be something akin to Eugene's discussion with her about the reasons for which she fights.

 

So until now, there are three possible explanations for DM's actions:

1. he was possessive

2. he wanted to help her by giving her a reason to stay put.

3. he liberated her of customs and encouraged her to fight for more than the nobler's ideals. 

But yes, until next week, it would not be clear what just happened, so it would be helpful if we get more reasons for why somebody would cut one's hair.

 

I find it strange if AS were to be upset about her hair cut since for women, long hair is part of what the society expects of some women: pretty with long hair, taking seriously their feminine role. But she broke with most of the social customs when she started her love affair with Eugene. Having her haircut is the smallest problem she might have...

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, tzupi said:

 

I find it strange if AS were to be upset about her hair cut since for women, long hair is part of what the society expects of some women: pretty with long hair, taking seriously their feminine role. But she broke with most of the social customs when she started her love affair with Eugene. Having her haircut is the smallest problem she might have...

 

 

 

 

 

Well, that is one way to look at things..

 

Just curious, if you had really big problem (not health  related problem like chemotherapy) and someone cut your hair and say that is done for your sake and in his opinion good for you, and cut it in front of a lot of people..

Would you be angry or thank him ?

 

I'm really curious.. because you had a very dissimilar way of think compare to me.

For me, whether it's work or not if something done to me without my consent (not me as a child of course, i mean me as adult) i would not accept it.

 

I hope you are not offended, this is purely my curiosity..

 

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1 hour ago, bedifferent said:

 

@mistymorning come help us. Correct me here please chingu! :blush:


In my limited understanding of Kdrama, Ae Shin's long hair, braided and adorned with ribbons (daenggi) and side of head decorate with pretty hairpins (dwikkoji) signified a maiden, unmarried woman.  Hairstyle will change to a chignon when the girl is married.

chingu, these are right in modern korean senses, but in those times, there's another way, the coming of age ceremony for man(around their 20) and woman(around 15) in Joseon. They can change their hair style to adult hair style after the ceremony. In Joseon they usually marry before that age, so usually, they did this ceremony before their wedding dates. Considering Aeshin is almost 30... hm... that means, she should be in adult hair style and considered as an adult. This coming of age ceremony disappeared around enlightenment period. so to modern korean viewers would expect Aeshin with daenggi and find it strange if she is in adult hair style when she's unmarried. I guess that's why production put Aeshin's hair style as a child.

 

Quote

Hair length is also representing the person's inner strength.  In Joseon period, it is forbidden to cut hair since it is viewed as a legacy from their parents and thus something has to be preserved.

I don't know about that.. but I know Joseon women likes their hair long, so they used wig to extend it. It's expensive decoration so poor women sold their hairs as a last resort to survive.(And that was allowed for women). 

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1 hour ago, mistymorning said:

KES is writing DM on really fine line, being part of love square... he's going over step constantly. I know this is DM's characterization, but urgh........ any hope of AS reciprocation of DM's love is gone. Only thing left is probably friend, at best.

 

Thanks for enlightening me with the explanations.  Much appreciated! 

 

@mistymorning what do you think?  Is DM all about reality, survival and not tradition? His mannerism and way of life are subconsciously a rejection and detestation of the Joseon he dislikes.  Like Eugene, I think he treats people and make friends based on the person's character, not out of obligation, nationality or society standard driven by class/tradition.  That's something to be considered against the man who lives by the code of violence and power because he needs to survive.  I think this is why he is different from Eugene who tries to control the worse of human emotions.  Eugene said something to Hee-Sung about the choices we have to make and how he chose to not feel hate.   DM must learn that part of him exists and that there is another way to resolve confrontations.  I am not sure if KES will ever give him a sympathetic coat of armor  given who he represents.  He's tragic, sad and controversial in so many ways.

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@KDramaLogic

may I ask you the link to be able to watch the unsubbed episodes on dailymotion? I have tried to seacrh for them, but I couldnt find episode 17.  Could you pleas help me?

 

I have read the usual recap by dramamilk. I am really shocked by the last scene in which Dong Mae cuts Aeshin hair. Even in the West is an horrible action cut a woman hair in public:  in middle age was the punishment for infidelity as it is read in literature, while in modern times this was done at the end of WWII to the women who collaborated with the nazis or the fascists. Their hair were cut in public and they were dragged around and called prostitutes. So, this is  shocking, really shocking.  Even with “good” twisted intentions to keep her safe, this was a cruel violence, hitting her body and her soul. Moreover she is already talked bad for ending the marriage promise, so she will be talked as a prostitute. I have to see what comes next, anyway it is so obviosly a machist thing, to treat a woman like she has no right, ad as if he knows better (what he knows? He doesn’t know anything). Decidedly Aeshin was right saying Joseon is not good to his women...

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56 minutes ago, bedifferent said:

 

Thanks for enlightening me with the explanations.  Much appreciated! 

 

@mistymorning what do you think?  Is DM all about reality, survival and not tradition? His mannerism and way of life are subconsciously a rejection and detestation of the Joseon he dislikes.  Like Eugene, I think he treats people and make friends based on the person's character, not out of obligation, nationality or society standard driven by class/tradition.  That's something to be considered against the man who lives by the code of violence and power because he needs to survive.  I think this is why he is different from Eugene who tries to control the worse of human emotions.  Eugene said something to Hee-Sung about the choices we have to make and how he chose to not feel hate.   DM must learn that part of him exists and that there is another way to resolve confrontations.  I am not sure if KES will ever give him a sympathetic coat of armor  given who he represents.  He's tragic, sad and controversial in so many ways.

 

Ae Shin is not his property, she is not beholden to him in any way nor is she under any obligation to him. Whatever code he lives by, he has no right to impose it forcefully on others.

 

That's something to be considered against the man who lives by the code of violence and power because he needs to survive.

It is so easy to hand wave away his shitty and cruel actions as some mode of survival. From the second he has returned to Joseon, he has had power in his hands. He was no poor survivor just doing whatever it took to live but he was making decisions and terrorizing people using the power he had acquired in Japan. He stopped being a survivor, a long time ago. Now, he can be called as an oppressor.

 

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Hi all.. been awhile haven't visit this thread while I do still binge watching Mr. Sunshine. It never cease to amaze me how passionate y'all on recaping and yeah being opinionated about it.

 

I found some "real" drama here and there on the few previous page wow.. the heattttt! Lol. I believe we do realize deep down, we love all the characters, the uniqeness, the stuborness, the quirky, etc. KES indeed so briliant making these strong characters alive as if they are our neighbour.

 

Ofc, there is something amusing me.. why do we have to fight among ourself? about who's the most right? and blame the "supposedly" wrong? Hey relaxxx guys... please tune down the agression of being this side or those side. Hell, we never know what KES plan on this drama. Keep the civilization, no rudeness okay? :D *peace

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Lol daebak episode as usual.. can I just say two things.. First, I love a woman who can stand up against bullies on her own like Hina! Second, Dong Mae ya!!!

 

It will be tough for Dong Mae to get back in Ae Shin’s good graces ESP with what happened! It was so hard for him to gain that one tiny brownie point too and he lost it so soon after... haish...

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38 minutes ago, mistergenie said:

 

Ae Shin is not his property, she is not beholden to him in any way nor is she under any obligation to him. Whatever code he lives by, he has no right to impose it forcefully on others.

 

That's something to be considered against the man who lives by the code of violence and power because he needs to survive.

It is so easy to hand wave away his shitty and cruel actions as some mode of survival. From the second he has returned to Joseon, he has had power in his hands. He was no poor survivor just doing whatever it took to live but he was making decisions and terrorizing people using the power he had acquired in Japan. He stopped being a survivor, a long time ago. Now, he can be called as an oppressor.

 

 

Yes, I agree.  I am not here to defend DM but do think his character is controversial enough to receive points here from both sides of the argument.  Would be better to allow the drama to run its course before giving the final judgment on any character.

 

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19 minutes ago, bedifferent said:

 

 Would be better to allow the drama to run its course before giving the final judgment on any character.

 

 

I agree. But 18 episodes of almost negligible character growth for DM, doesn't make me too optimistic about it.

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3 hours ago, ladyme said:

 

Well, that is one way to look at things..

 

Just curious, if you had really big problem (not health  related problem like chemotherapy) and someone cut your hair and say that is done for your sake and in his opinion good for you, and cut it in front of a lot of people..

Would you be angry or thank him ?

 

I'm really curious.. because you had a very dissimilar way of think compare to me.

For me, whether it's work or not if something done to me without my consent (not me as a child of course, i mean me as adult) i would not accept it.

 

I hope you are not offended, this is purely my curiosity..

 

I do not get your case, but if you ask if somebody cuts my hair without my consent: it depends. Is the hair something that I came to loathe because it symbolizes my inferior status, my submission to somebody else, whom I cannot directly disobey because we are family-related? Did the person do it with good intentions? If yes in both cases, then the cutting of such a symbol of my inferior status, even by another person, cannot be but a blessing in disguise.

 

2 hours ago, bedifferent said:

Is DM all about reality, survival and not tradition?

I like your question. I find DM to be a very interesting character right now, in a way in which he was not at the beginning of the story. There are some important changes that happen to him in the last episodes: now he understands that money is a fickle mistress, that his people are not safe, but he also understands that he can make choices because he is not like his parents. The danger with him is precisely that he is so free of any attachments to any tradition--he is an outsider. Can he make the right choices?

What happened in the last episode is strange, and in a way negates his growth. But given the changes from the last episodes, like you, I'm also wondering if there is more there.  

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@mellinadearI am sorry but this is laughable. So, all that the prominent RA members have to do to dispel any and all suspicion is to get their hair cut (willingly or otherwise)?  And the villains who are looking into them will be satisfied on seeing them renouncing their Joseon spirit so openly? Wow!! If Wan Ik and Takashi end up believing this, then I will seriously lose a lot of respect for the writer for making them so dumb.

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2 hours ago, bedifferent said:

 

Thanks for enlightening me with the explanations.  Much appreciated! 

 

@mistymorning what do you think?  Is DM all about reality, survival and not tradition? His mannerism and way of life are subconsciously a rejection and detestation of the Joseon he dislikes.  Like Eugene, I think he treats people and make friends based on the person's character, not out of obligation, nationality or society standard driven by class/tradition.  That's something to be considered against the man who lives by the code of violence and power because he needs to survive.  I think this is why he is different from Eugene who tries to control the worse of human emotions.  Eugene said something to Hee-Sung about the choices we have to make and how he chose to not feel hate.   DM must learn that part of him exists and that there is another way to resolve confrontations.  I am not sure if KES will ever give him a sympathetic coat of armor  given who he represents.  He's tragic, sad and controversial in so many ways.

Eugene also told DM about choices in life. I was hoping.. along with his near death experience and all the other people helping him, he'll make different choices. But KES didn't change his course here.

 

Putting on my pop-psychology hat, I think DM has trauma from his mother who slashed him to save him. Perhaps, that early memory makes him going back to uncommunicating violence dealing with Aeshin. but he's ok with all the other women in his life, Hotaru and Hina. I'm sure unless Hina told Aeshin about his help, he would have failed to communicate right to Aeshin about his good deed and intention. To me, the most tragic part of DM is that, it's all his making at this point.

 

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