[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜

[enigmatic_zephy]

14 hours ago, bluesytb said:

I think this could be side stepped is HSALF universe since they are all immortals/gods.  But I do get your point and it yeah  - this is a huge (and frightening)topic that philosophers still today talk about. 

 

In regards to the HSALF - Someone in an earlier post said something to the effect of JM/XF saying screw you to fate and taking it into their own hands - Flower deity shouldn't have survived = JM shouldn't have been born = JM and XF shouldn't be together.  

 

Now I'm left wondering what would've happened if Flower deity/JM never existed.

 

Wait -

 

RY probably wouldn't exist.  Since Heavenly Emperor most likely wouldn't have chased his mom (since she reminded him of Flower deity)

 

Ok hold on I need some time to process this.

 

To go back to real life - you definitely raise interesting questions and I certainly don't have answers to them.  But I think I could possibly point out that in our reality, those with the most are without a doubt the least human, and those people/companies/etc actively pursue measures that keep people in destitution and wanting.  So where does that put karma/fate?  Will the 1% get their just dues?  

 

p.s. I honestly love this forum, guys.  Thanks for everything!        

    

just a correction, what i gather from the last scene where phonenix's mom iss in jail and accuses his dad of his wrongdoings, RY wasn't born because his mom reminded heavenly lord of flower deity..

 

it was a well planned strategy.. it was planned that she will be made to meet heavenly lord alone, that he will pursue her.. all of this because he had to have a first born from another woman but not heavenly goddess (because of marriage thing or to pay for some of his other crimes... and phoneix's mom needed a scapegoat for all of that before she gives birth to her precious)

 

****************

water god would have fallen in love with someone else.. given birth to a girl.. major part of JM reincarnated..

phoneix would still have been born

RY would still have been born because daddy is a cassinova

[El Lieu]

On ‎9‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 1:58 AM, thehumantree said:

I'm pretty sure he dubbed all his scenes. I know he sometimes sound different when he whispers!! Which scenes you think that's not his voice?

 

Well, alot of Phoenix warrior like persona got taken out of the drama so... it is what it is!

It was just throughout the series bits and pieces....like early in the drama chapt 3? when she was translating the army language for him....just didn't sound like his voice...

 

his actual voice when whispering I love...

 

well I guess most drama make a war hero so smart and outstanding....this is one of the few that they strengthened the 2nd lead male as that...

 

Okay I didn't understand the last conversation the two brothers had before they made up...this is after she dies and XF goes back up to rid his brother of the demon in him....his brother tells him that it was he who amended the unfeeling pill that he saw how she fell in love with XF ….that whole thing about calculation...he said he miscalculated the beginning and XF miscalculated the ending...then XF said he never calculated..etc...what do they mean? so phylosphical...

 

Haha after watching this series I can't tell which series like better three worlds three lives or this one..

 

In the part after he gets revived and she turns into bunny she visits him and its the first time they actually see each other face to face for how long? and he pretend to be drunk...it is crazy that he still longed and wanted her even after she killed him (expecially since he thought she betrayed him and she told him she didn't love her)….I can see how sickening that would be for a guy to still want a girl after that...imagine if she really didn't love him and it was another strategy to kill him....no one he said he look down on himself like poison....I think in the book they actually had another multicultivation but in the drama they left it to the kissing that's it...?

 

I wish in the book and drama they elobrated how he found her 500 or 5000 years later...poor guy in book had to wait 5000 years though....I guess though its great to be immortal...can die and then get resurrected.....so buddha etc is still over these heavenly immortals they still are like humans with extra power and longevity...

 

 

 

 

[enigmatic_zephy]

8 hours ago, El Lieu said:

It was just throughout the series bits and pieces....like early in the drama chapt 3? when she was translating the army language for him....just didn't sound like his voice...

 

his actual voice when whispering I love...

 

well I guess most drama make a war hero so smart and outstanding....this is one of the few that they strengthened the 2nd lead male as that...

 

Okay I didn't understand the last conversation the two brothers had before they made up...this is after she dies and XF goes back up to rid his brother of the demon in him....his brother tells him that it was he who amended the unfeeling pill that he saw how she fell in love with XF ….that whole thing about calculation...he said he miscalculated the beginning and XF miscalculated the ending...then XF said he never calculated..etc...what do they mean? so phylosphical...

 

Haha after watching this series I can't tell which series like better three worlds three lives or this one..

 

In the part after he gets revived and she turns into bunny she visits him and its the first time they actually see each other face to face for how long? and he pretend to be drunk...it is crazy that he still longed and wanted her even after she killed him (expecially since he thought she betrayed him and she told him she didn't love her)….I can see how sickening that would be for a guy to still want a girl after that...imagine if she really didn't love him and it was another strategy to kill him....no one he said he look down on himself like poison....I think in the book they actually had another multicultivation but in the drama they left it to the kissing that's it...?

 

I wish in the book and drama they elobrated how he found her 500 or 5000 years later...poor guy in book had to wait 5000 years though....I guess though its great to be immortal...can die and then get resurrected.....so buddha etc is still over these heavenly immortals they still are like humans with extra power and longevity...

 

 

 

 

like indian and roman mythology.. god is god.. others are powerful administrative department of god

 

I do wonder, if all fo this is influence by hinduism, which itself is origin of buddhism.. it goes back to 6 BC or so.. when chinese scholors visited india and a lot of then knowledge transferred to china.. buddha is roughly 2 bc and nalada was there when these scholors came

[Lynne]

15 hours ago, El Lieu said:

 

Okay I didn't understand the last conversation the two brothers had before they made up...this is after she dies and XF goes back up to rid his brother of the demon in him....his brother tells him that it was he who amended the unfeeling pill that he saw how she fell in love with XF ….that whole thing about calculation...he said he miscalculated the beginning and XF miscalculated the ending...then XF said he never calculated..etc...what do they mean? so phylosphical...

 

 

 

For me it meant that Xu Feng has always been sincere and honest towards Jin Mi, as opposed to Ren Yu who approached and manipulated Jin Mi for his own gain.

 

Side Note:

I always view Ren Yu's story arc as a rise of the villain. I can understand his sad past, what the empress done to him is very cruel, but I can never forgive what he did to his own brother (as a revenge) and Jin Mi, especially the emotional abuse he did to Jin Mi.

Even until the end, Ren Yu is still selfish in asking Xu Feng to kill him, it wasn't only Jin Mi's death that changed Ren Yu, it is Xu Feng's choice for not killing him that really made him come to his senses again.

Just like Jin Mi and Xu Feng has to accept that they can never go back to the way they were,  Ren Yu has to accept that who he is today is what he brought to himself. And being a lone emperor is his self punishment.

 

Different from the book, here (in the drama) Ren Yu's downfall began with him wanting to have something that his brother likes, that is Jin Mi. We can say that he do like Jin Mi, but even from that start he already know that Jin Mi and Xu Feng's relationship isn't that simple. (Ep 07-08), we know it, he knows it, Xu Feng knows it, even Liu Ying knows it.

[bluesytb]

On 9/30/2018 at 6:12 AM, enigmatic_zephy said:

just a correction, what i gather from the last scene where phonenix's mom iss in jail and accuses his dad of his wrongdoings, RY wasn't born because his mom reminded heavenly lord of flower deity..

 

it was a well planned strategy.. it was planned that she will be made to meet heavenly lord alone, that he will pursue her.. all of this because he had to have a first born from another woman but not heavenly goddess (because of marriage thing or to pay for some of his other crimes... and phoneix's mom needed a scapegoat for all of that before she gives birth to her precious)

I went back and checked and this is what I found out:

Episode 28 (around 35min in) We find out by Su Li that she was a Princess and about to be married.  She follows her father into Heavenly Realm for the Heavenly Empress' Birthday Banquet but goes off on her own and stumbles into the library where she per chance meets the Heavenly Emperor.  They begin a relationship.

 

Yan You remarks "At that time Heavenly Emperor was pursuing Flower Deity"

 

Su Li remarks "For power (backing of the bird tribe) he married Tu Yao, not Zi Fen(Flower). He seduced me because she and I look a bit similar.  What he's looking for in me was just the shadow of Zi Fen."

 

Fast forward toe episode to episode 37: Tu Yao is imprisoned and talking to Heavenly Emperor:  Flash back where Heavenly Emperor was (I think newly)married to Tu Yao, but asks Moon and Lao Jun about removing her station:

 

"Tu Yao's actions are all against our aim.  She can't bear the duty of being a heavenly empress"  

 

He then asks them "I want to make someone else the Empress...What about Flower deity?"

 

They deny him, stating that it the power structure is weak at the moment and that he needs the backing of the bird tribe (LJ) and that it's bad form to divorce the Empress/you should be an example.(Moon)

 

Back to the present - Tu Yao says:

 

"That (Su Li) looked just a bit similar to her (Flower).  You clearly knew you were just using her, but you developed affection for her."

 

On 9/30/2018 at 6:12 AM, enigmatic_zephy said:

****************

water god would have fallen in love with someone else.. given birth to a girl.. major part of JM reincarnated..

phoneix would still have been born

Not necessarily.  I mean maybe he might have fallen in love with Wind(or someone else - but we can't know that.), but never would have been forced to marry her because of Emperor's jealousy.  He may have been a father to a girl, or a boy or maybe twins or maybe he wouldn't have children at all.   

  

Definitely XF still would have been born 

On 9/30/2018 at 6:12 AM, enigmatic_zephy said:

RY would still have been born because daddy is a cassinova

See, here's my thoughts:  (not speaking for the book, since I just kinda skimmed it) Emperor falls "in love" with Flower, but in the same way RY "falls in love" with JM.  They both want to possess those women and are literally obsessed with them.  Heavenly Emperor is talked out of marrying Flower, so he sees Su Li,  and uses her since he cant "have" Zi Fen.  Would he have had something with Su Li if not for Flower?  We don't know.  He might have fallen for her instead of Flower or maybe he wouldn't have fallen for her at all.  If he doesn't fall for her at all = no RY.  

 

So far in the drama - we find out that the Emperor is somewhat flirty, but his promiscuity *seems* to only be directed at Zi Fen, and when he can't wed Zi Fen, it goes to Su li.  If Flower Deity never existed; would he be obsessed with someone else?  We don't know. (We might be able to assume not, because of the whole "fate" thing) There would be no RY, anyways. - it might be another child  (since different mother.) but that child would not be RY.         

[enigmatic_zephy]

11 minutes ago, bluesytb said:

 

 

Not necessarily.  I mean maybe he might have fallen in love with Wind(or someone else - but we can't know that.), but never would have been forced to marry her because of Emperor's jealousy.  He may have been a father to a girl, or a boy or maybe twins or maybe he wouldn't have children at all.   

concept of detiny.. he would have married and given birth to a girl.. XF's love interest..

 

that's how fate works  and since JM is half or rather looks more like her father demeanour wise, she would still be part JM.. same happy kid.. because she would come from a happy family .. story would repeat itself

Quote

  

Definitely XF still would have been born 

See, here's my thoughts:  (not speaking for the book, since I just kinda skimmed it) Emperor falls "in love" with Flower, but in the same way RY "falls in love" with JM.  They both want to possess those women and are literally obsessed with them.  Heavenly Emperor is talked out of marrying Flower, so he sees Su Li,  and uses her since he cant "have" Zi Fen.  Would he have had something with Su Li if not for Flower?  We don't know.  He might have fallen for her instead of Flower or maybe he wouldn't have fallen for her at all.  If he doesn't fall for her at all = no RY.  

RY is better than his father..he was loyal to JM atleast .. although his reveng is priority one but JM is priority two.. as in he would go all out to protect her while taking his revenge... the book makes it clear brothers are not close to each other since always.. but drama changed this to show brothers were close..

 

but book makes more sense to that scene when JM realized how RY used her.. and that she was not loved but coveted by him only because XF loved her.. and RY would not let him have what he wants that easily

Quote

 

So far in the drama - we find out that the Emperor is somewhat flirty, but his promiscuity *seems* to only be directed at Zi Fen, and when he can't wed Zi Fen, it goes to Su li.  If Flower Deity never existed; would he be obsessed with someone else?  We don't know. (We might be able to assume not, because of the whole "fate" thing) There would be no RY, anyways. - it might be another child  (since different mother.) but that child would not be RY.         

if she dint exist, su li still would.. pretty as ever..

emperor only cares about himself.. see he seemed to favour phoenix all along.. but the moment RY became famous across realms he diverted his interest to RY.. only when he realized he was played.. did he sacrifice himself to save phoneix

[bluesytb]

15 hours ago, El Lieu said:

 

Okay I didn't understand the last conversation the two brothers had before they made up...this is after she dies and XF goes back up to rid his brother of the demon in him....his brother tells him that it was he who amended the unfeeling pill that he saw how she fell in love with XF ….that whole thing about calculation...he said he miscalculated the beginning and XF miscalculated the ending...then XF said he never calculated..etc...what do they mean? so phylosphical...

RY and XF think completely differently.  RY gambles, manipulates/gaslights and calculates.  He says straight up "If I had met her first..." but in reality, the first dude she meets is Carrot, and then Yan You/Pu Chi - but she has no feelings for them and really, love does not function like that.  Its not who you meet first.

 

XF thinks with his heart.  He falls for JM slowly and loves her for who she is (likewise, JM feels the same way about him)He's never manipulated her, nor calculated anything - he just loves her for her.  RY, in my maybe not so humble opinion, loves the way JM makes him feel.  We can tell he's star struck the moment he sees her and thus begins his obsession with her.  And this parallels the Heavenly Emperor "loving" (read: obsessing over/wanting to possess)JM's Mother and Water Deity's pure love for her Mom.  

 

This is echoed when JM  comes to grips with RY when she outright states things like:

 

"You don't know what love is"

and

"You made me kill the person I loved best, the person who loved me best"

 

Quote

Haha after watching this series I can't tell which series like better three worlds three lives or this one..

 

In the part after he gets revived and she turns into bunny she visits him and its the first time they actually see each other face to face for how long? and he pretend to be drunk...it is crazy that he still longed and wanted her even after she killed him (expecially since he thought she betrayed him and she told him she didn't love her)….I can see how sickening that would be for a guy to still want a girl after that...imagine if she really didn't love him and it was another strategy to kill him....no one he said he look down on himself like poison....I think in the book they actually had another multicultivation but in the drama they left it to the kissing that's it...?

It was subtly hinted that they mutually cultivated then -  when XF is grieving JM and flipping through her drawings.   

 

Quote

I wish in the book and drama they elobrated how he found her 500 or 5000 years later...poor guy in book had to wait 5000 years though....I guess though its great to be immortal...can die and then get resurrected.....so buddha etc is still over these heavenly immortals they still are like humans with extra power and longevity...

 

There was a scene of the Buddha lady (I cant remember her name - but she's Water's master.) where she told him where (& when) to wait for her.  

 

2 hours ago, lynne22 said:

 

For me it meant that Xu Feng has always been sincere and honest towards Jin Mi, as opposed to Ren Yu who approached and manipulated Jin Mi for his own gain. 

^^^^

12 minutes ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

concept of detiny.. he would have married and given birth to a girl.. XF's love interest..

 

that's how fate works  and since JM is half or rather looks more like her father demeanour wise, she would still be part JM.. same happy kid.. because she would come from a happy family .. story would repeat itself

RY is better than his father..he was loyal to JM atleast .. although his reveng is priority one but JM is priority two.. as in he would go all out to protect her while taking his revenge... the book makes it clear brothers are not close to each other since always.. but drama changed this to show brothers were close..

I don't follow your logic here, I will agree to disagree lol!

 

[El Lieu]

Rewatching….in episode 15..the scene XF finds out that she is water god's daughter and engaged to his brother...

 

He said handing her the hairpin....he says when give something he would not take back and from her it wasn't just the hairpin he lost from her.....does it mean he lost his love for her...

 

XF said to her if she returns the hairpin then she should return "other stuff" to him.  If she doesn't return the hairpin then don't return anything.

 

Is he asking that she return his love for her with the return of the hairpin?   This kind sounds should be opposite though.

 

She should keep hairpin and return her love for him...so she ends up keeping hairpin (thinking he take back the lingui power)...but to him it means he had a chance for her to return his feelings?

 

Is it a pun?

 

 

[El Lieu]

I find it so funny in chapter 11 -- when he was drunk and she was trying to wake him up thinking of multi cultivating with him...and she doesn't even really understand the meaning of "sex"...haha poor guy at that point still thought she was his sister...

 

 

[missnymeria]

1 hour ago, El Lieu said:

Rewatching….in episode 15..the scene XF finds out that she is water god's daughter and engaged to his brother...

 

He said handing her the hairpin....he says when give something he would not take back and from her it wasn't just the hairpin he lost from her.....does it mean he lost his love for her...

 

XF said to her if she returns the hairpin then she should return "other stuff" to him.  If she doesn't return the hairpin then don't return anything.

 

Is he asking that she return his love for her with the return of the hairpin?   This kind sounds should be opposite though.

 

She should keep hairpin and return her love for him...so she ends up keeping hairpin (thinking he take back the lingui power)...but to him it means he had a chance for her to return his feelings?

 

Is it a pun?

 

 

Yes, he does mean that he has lost his heart to her and that he will only take the feather back if Jin Mi doesn't accept or return his feelings. Of course, Jin Mi thinks that he's talking about all the spiritual energy she mooched off him and thus doesn't want to give the hairpin back. So Xu Feng believes she knows about his feelings and is willing to give her heart in return. He spends 2/3 of the drama believing she's in love with him and it's one of the reasons he pushes for their romance so much. Finding out she never loved him (although the viewer knows she did actually fall in love with him in the mortal realm, before Run Yu repaired the pill) hurts him more than her actually killing him. He admits to this in the Demon Realm when he gives her petal back to her.

 

[El Lieu]

thank you for the replies...

[El Lieu]

Can anyone tell me how long from when she killed him to when XF resurrect...and to when they met again when she turned herself into a bunny?  After the "fake" marriage he told her he spent many years trying to hate her but he failed...

 

How long was that?

 

 

Yes I recall the buddha lady told him that JM will be waiting for him where they first fell in love (actually he fell in love witih her very early on when they she was his student still)...where she actually fell in love with him in the mortal realm...I just didn't recall how long....suddenly 500 years past after he saw her briefly (3 years after her death)….

 

The reason why I liked this series was that there was some funny scenes not just sad ones...like the part XF was so angered that she going in mortal realm by the reincarnation goddess?....when she said JM had to experience the 7 human tragedies being love separation....and XF was like "NO"a nd to that to his fox uncle that fox uncle was gonna make a good relationship for JM...or that the goddess would have JM be a male...haha.....

 

 

[missnymeria]

20 hours ago, El Lieu said:

Can anyone tell me how long from when she killed him to when XF resurrect...and to when they met again when she turned herself into a bunny?  After the "fake" marriage he told her he spent many years trying to hate her but he failed...

 

How long was that?

 If I recall correctly, Jin Mi was unconscious for 6 months after she killed Xu Feng. Her finding out about his innocence and then tyring to resurrect him probably took a few weeks, a few months at  most. Although in the book I think they say it took something like 3 years before Xu Feng came back to life. The drama doesn't seem to have followed suit on that timeline. Or at least if it did, it didn't come across that way.

 

Then the timeline starts to get iffy and confusing.

 

When Run Yu locks Jin Mi up so that she can recover from her wounds, it is implied that quite a bit of time has passed because how else would there be a book recounting Xu Feng's many achievements ? All his feats would have to have taken place over at least a year, if not more.

 

Then the drama lost me and I have no idea how much time is supposed to have passed. It certainly never feels like years have passed so the drama really failed to convey the passage of time during the Demon Realm portion (the same can be said of the time Jin Mi spends as Xu Feng's reading assistant at the beginning of the drama too. It certainly doesn't feel as if a full century has passed). So I just went with the flow and tried not to be bothered by the vagueness of the timeline.

[El Lieu]

1 hour ago, missnymeria said:

 If I recall correctly, Jin Mi was unconscious for 6 months after she killed Xu Feng. Her finding out about his innocence and then tyring to resurrect him probably took a few weeks, a few months at  most. Although in the book I think they say it took something like 3 years before Xu Feng came back to life. The drama doesn't seem to have followed suit on that timeline. Or at least if it did, it didn't come across that way.

 

Then the timeline starts to get iffy and confusing.

 

When Run Yu locks Jin Mi up so that she can recover from her wounds, it is implied that quite a bit of time has passed because how else would there be a book recounting Xu Feng's many achievements ? All his feats would have to have taken place over at least a year, if not more.

 

Then the drama lost me and I have no idea how much time is supposed to have passed. It certainly never feels like years have passed so the drama really failed to convey the passage of time during the Demon Realm portion (the same can be said of the time Jin Mi spends as Xu Feng's reading assistant at the beginning of the drama too. It certainly doesn't feel as if a full century has passed). So I just went with the flow and tried not to be bothered by the vagueness of the timeline.

That's true it really didn't seem a hundred years as his assistant...ha..

 

I just curious...

[El Lieu]

Actually I am confused.....the part jinmi die in moral realm.....before she died she remembered her friend yongyong....kind of didn’t make sense to me...and then jinmi dies ...she becomes ghost?

 

so when she was a soul watching Xf drink poison ...was she a ghost or her goddess form?

and then when xf dies in the coffin his soul ghost form comes out or he is back a goddess as well...?

 

 

 

[bluesytb]

Yeah, the timeline was for sure a hitch. 

 

ETA: Though I suppose time might feel different if you're an immortal being who lives thousands of years ??? 

Edited October 4, 2018 by bluesytb
meandering

[bluesytb]

On 10/3/2018 at 9:05 PM, El Lieu said:

Actually I am confused.....the part jinmi die in moral realm.....before she died she remembered her friend yongyong....kind of didn’t make sense to me...and then jinmi dies ...she becomes ghost?

 

so when she was a soul watching Xf drink poison ...was she a ghost or her goddess form?

and then when xf dies in the coffin his soul ghost form comes out or he is back a goddess as well...?

 

 

 

(sorry, apparently didn't see this when I posted earlier)

 

The friend is Rou Rou (肉肉 - which actually translates to Meat Meat - lol!  But I learned fairly recently that a Succulent -Which is what kind of plant Rou Rou is - translates to Meat Plant in Mandarin)

I feel the scene makes sense, to me anyways, since JM is very close to death at this moment anyways, and Rou Rou died in her arms a second time, jogging her forgotten memories - so it could be both factors.

 

As for her being a "ghost " I think she's back in her immortal form.  Remember how the Goddess of Fate checked in on JM at the beginning of Mortal realm arc?  When she was invisible to the mortals?  We know that immortals can choose to be seen by mortals (as we see throughout the series) But JM probably realizes she can't just materialize in front of him.  I think there was also something about gods not interfering in mortals' lives too, correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

Those are my thoughts anyways.    

[Lynne]

This is a well written review for this drama... 

https://eastasiandrama.com/ashes-of-love-heavy-sweetness-ash-like-frost-review/

 

___

Btw anyone still re-watching? I'm still re-watching this drama.. LOL... the more I watch the more I <3 this. Ep 58 is the one I re-watch the most every night.. LOL... @angelangie The subtle nuances in the talk after the wedding is amazing... I've watch this more than 100x times and I still have different takes.... xu feng's eyes speaks louder than his voice... while jin mi is so broken already..she doesn't want to hope... Sighhh.... 

 

Anyway... I highly recommend everyone to re-watch this drama with viki subs. 

 

[Lynne]

@angelangie LoL... I don't think I'm going to stop anytime soon. 

Xu Feng and Jin Mi's journey is so achingly beautiful. 

[ayang23]

On 10/7/2018 at 9:11 PM, lynne22 said:

This is a well written review for this drama... 

https://eastasiandrama.com/ashes-of-love-heavy-sweetness-ash-like-frost-review/

 

___

Btw anyone still re-watching? I'm still re-watching this drama.. LOL... the more I watch the more I <3 this. Ep 58 is the one I re-watch the most every night.. LOL... @angelangie The subtle nuances in the talk after the wedding is amazing... I've watch this more than 100x times and I still have different takes.... xu feng's eyes speaks louder than his voice... while jin mi is so broken already..she doesn't want to hope... Sighhh.... 

 

Anyway... I highly recommend everyone to re-watch this drama with viki subs. 

 

Oh yeah, I definitely still watch my favorite episodes and scenes on a weekly basis. Haha and so you are not alone. There are so many parts I really enjoyed watching overall, but I absolutely ❤ the mortal realm, heavenly realm wedding where our poor Phoneix dies, Jimin pursuing demon Phoneix, and Jimin's death episodes. I've just really appreciated the love and sacrifice our two leads had in the drama. Ashes of love just had a storyline that was engaging, fun, and a great rollercoaster ride overall!