[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜

[jehnnny99]

Just to add - I followed this thread from the first week watching the raws, and still loved it. But, I'm watching the viki subs now, and the political aspects of the drama are so nicely done! For example, episode 6, they introduce/explain the ice weapon that JM used to kill XF with. It's a small detail, but I think the writers are great for being conscious of these little details ( another example - the powerful lotus fire power thing that only XF and the Empress can use, which explained why XF was not entirely convinced when JM told him SH killed her father ). All the details and little clues tied together to make the flow of the story logical, and for a wuxia, I admire the efforts of the team for that ( even though on viki, people were still misunderstanding things that were obvious or had been explained lol... but I won't get into that )

 

Anyway, I'm glad the thread is still thriving and more people are giving their wonderful analysis' on the drama! Personally, HSALF and Goblin were the best dramas I watched during 2018, I'm glad both are getting the attention they deserve 

[bluesytb]

2 hours ago, jehnnny99 said:

Just to add - I followed this thread from the first week watching the raws, and still loved it. But, I'm watching the viki subs now, and the political aspects of the drama are so nicely done! For example, episode 6, they introduce/explain the ice weapon that JM used to kill XF with. It's a small detail, but I think the writers are great for being conscious of these little details ( another example - the powerful lotus fire power thing that only XF and the Empress can use, which explained why XF was not entirely convinced when JM told him SH killed her father ). All the details and little clues tied together to make the flow of the story logical, and for a wuxia, I admire the efforts of the team for that ( even though on viki, people were still misunderstanding things that were obvious or had been explained lol... but I won't get into that )

 

Anyway, I'm glad the thread is still thriving and more people are giving their wonderful analysis' on the drama! Personally, HSALF and Goblin were the best dramas I watched during 2018, I'm glad both are getting the attention they deserve 

 

I went back and forth for awhile, from raws to translations,  on different sites, then re-watched on Viki.  I'll re-re-watch again for sure.   TBH, I don't even really have the heart to watch anything else - I started Martial Universe at about the same time as I started HSALF, which I thought was kinda fun at the beginning but is just a giant mess that is super hard to watch, especially narrative wise.  I feel spoiled by HSALF - As you said,  they really did tie everything together, in a way that utilizes details throughout the series, making it super coherent.  It really is such a good production.  You care about the characters, they learn and grow, they make mistakes, they're very human in their complexity. 

 

I LOVE seeing political and sociopolitical (god why do I sound so pompous?) themes that are well done and that question society.  I love how the theme of power is portrayed, how those who are the most selfish,and manipulative literally end up with the least.  I mean RY is ultimately forgiven, (in the end) but he is still punished, and that punishment will last a long time.       (And to note,  the capitalist societies that most of us live in today often reward manipulative and selfish people/companies the most, as they will do everything to get their way)

 

Don't get me started on Viki misunderstandings, lol.  I have to wonder how much people have been actively watching to get some things so confused.

 

"XF is just like his father" Um how?  Has no desire for power and barely looks at women.

 

(during mutual cultivation )  "Does JM know what is happening?" I mean she was a doctor in the mortal realm who thought Yi was impotent soo... 

 

*Angry at XF for trying to 'steal' JM from RY* Well, considering RY lied/manipulated his way into that, since he wanted to force JM by his side, go off, I guess.  Also JM is a human person, not an object, it's not her fault she has no feelings for RY, and feelings are never owed to anyone. And ideas about deflowering/virginity as a way of determining the worth  of women are SUPER outdated and gross.  

 

"RY deserved better"  Um no.  did we forget he almost committed genocide to flower realm? And would have done the same to the Demon realm?  And started a war over a woman who wanted nothing to do with him at that point?  A woman he was literally abusive to? (not physically, but he used her, lied to her constantly, manipulated her and imprisoned her)    

[Yui.]

Sadly, these videos don't have English subs yet. However, I was watching all 3 previews and I think the preview summarized the drama really well. I'm gonna try to summarize just 2 of the previews and analyze. Parts I don't understand or can't translate will be "...." or I might skip over it. GAH notice how the trailer focuses on our couple flashing some scenes of side lovers lol...

 

 

"JM: What is love?
Carrot God: .... Love is bitter/hardship/suffer. Little grape.
XF: JM, promise you will become my queen upon my return.
JM: Love is actually sweet. 
XF: When you met me, it was before you knew love.

JM: Sometimes, the person in front of you may not be whom you truly love. I realize I actually always only loved him after he died. Phoenix!
XF: After you hurt me...
Empress: I want you to be nothing but ashes you evil thing that dared to mess up the 6 realms.

Night: I want to choose my own fate.

Empress: ....

SH: I let go of my pride, but you(XF) cannot let go of her.
Emperor: You dare go against the royal decree just for JM?
XF: For her, I started the road to the demons.

JM: No! Love is actually the bitterness of the sweet.
XF: I think one day, I will actually kill you (JM). Have you loved me?

JM/XF: Never.

JM: Love is actually this painful. But this time, I'm willing (to accept the pain)." 

 

My impression: So I find that this trailer summarized the drama really well and while watching this I can see how this summarized or made the novel more alive. Especially the part with how XF states how he might really kill JM. However, as we saw the drama/depending on how it's edited the impact is on different. It this was 36 episodes as it originally was--or fair enough say they extended it to 43 as originally requested I think this drama would have been close to the source. I agree with the members how the novel was JM's pov so we can't see how other characters think --thanks to this drama, some parts of the novel could be explained well. I find that when watching these previews there are some lines and scenes that we see and do not see while watching the novel. These music videos and previews just contains parts/glimpses of more what we can see. 

 

Starting with Night, our tragic pitiful second lead. Some people don't even pity him or think his punishment isn't enough. I actually like Night as he started off being really cool, charming and you feel for him sometimes! Then he goes through the phase where his friends and family betray or hurt him which is supposed to be his justification to go "evil" at the same time it's the Night who "CHOSE" his own fate/path that lead to his downfall. Isn't it ironic how he whats to chose -- yet, he really doesn't have a chance too? I also want to point out that it was Night who chose to leave his mom (not being abandoned). Because Night had chosen the Empress --- he can't really "blame" phoenix for taking what Night wants... He chose it right? And yet...Night is one of those characters you root for him to have a chance to redeem himself and to find happiness. At times you see drama night being more evil than novel night. I really like the expanded back story ;D just wished the editing could do it in a way we get more of our main couple.

 

Speaking of SH, I wasn't reminded how she had to let go her pride until rewatching this trailer.  In the drama we only know her as the person who really loved XF, sacrificed family (killed her human dad), manipulated those around her (Puchi who really liked her was used by her to gain Empresses trust / she uses Empress to get XF & power) . The interesting thing is SH could mirror the Empress in a sense she sacrifices and could do anything just to get power and the "love of her life". And this power is the "pride". 

 

I cannot remember JM in the drama saying she's willing to be in pain for love---I feel like that's only for the trailer? We also hear repeats of other trailers and in the drama of how she realizes she loves XF after he's dead. It's so deep in the trailer of how she realizes what love is. First she asks the question and next she attempts to answer and understand it. Parts such as her moral trial, witnessing her parents death, thinking XF betrayed her etc. And this is how it differs from the novel -- the trailer makes it seem like it follows the novel vibe in how phoenix almost kills JM, but drama version it's phoenix saying he might kill her one day after being hurt by her. Whereas in the novel phoenix had pride and his frustration of JM to want to kill her because of "love" 

 

 

"JM: Core Spirit? If I got my hands on his core spirit, my cultivation spirit will increase!
XF: Who is it?
JM friend: It's a crow?

JM: It's actually a phoenix? How can I not save him? Save!

XF: How does my savior want me to repay her?

JM: Bring me to the heaven realm. Then we can erase our scores.

....

JM: I gift you phoenix flowers. I hope you like. If not for cultivation spirit... Can you give me more cultivation energy?

XF: You wish! 

JM: Without cultivation energy, I cannot save my friend.

XF: Not much cultivation energy. Not much friends. 

....

XF: There's nothing I'm afraid of the heaven or earth. 

JM: I'm afraid of what your heart thinks. You are my summer sun.

XF: You are my winter frost.

JM: I like you.

XF: I'll marry you. I thought this was the end. I thought I wouldn't lose you. 

Night: XF, I miscalculated the start. You miscalculated the ending.

XF: You didn't miscalculate. Just that I never calculated. I love her.

Night: I want her. 

JM: I love you. "

 

My impression: I love the comedy and playfulness that started in the beginning of the trailer. Remember how much it focused on how obsessed JM was focused on cultivation energy. I really wished they mentioned it in the drama like how JM asks for cultivation energy = her asking XF for love. We get this slightly at the end when JM is reborn and XF gives up cultivation energy he saved for her to marry him. There's so much symbolism and deepness if the production team kept this in mind. 

 

It's also so freaking deep when XF says he never calculated when Night calculated from the start. Notice the difference of how XF says he love JM and Night just wants JM. Going back to the part where JM confronts Night --one of my favorite scenes. She discovers why she's in pain and what love is. She says to Night how he loves himself and not her-- he calculated everything and used her up where she asks him to free her. Again I think one of the members in this thread explained how JM was the only one who saw his real form and probably one of the first people who was genuinely nice to him. Night who is afraid to show his real self and was made to hide his real self was able to show his vulnerability to JM. I remember watching a BTS/interview where Leo mentioned how Deng Lun taught him how to show emotions of love --so I think based on the script/actor's interpretation --Night did love JM but not the same type of love we know of. Of course very different from XF's love. 

 

These are my thoughts for 2/3 trailers/previews out. What are your thoughts rewatching these trailers?

[teatreebiscuit]

Thanks everyone for your detail analysis of this drama. I was confused with the part where he drags her to the battle scene. It feels as if he is still very angry with her and was using her to goad RY?It was sort of like I love her , I want her but I can't trust her thing. This drama is actually so sad even with the happy ending.

 

[hellopakou]

https://youtu.be/hIw6iFV-d0M

 

XUFENG & JIN MI MV ( LIKE/FAVE/SUBSCRIBE )

[Bluesy TB]

16 hours ago, Yui. said:

Sadly, these videos don't have English subs yet. However, I was watching all 3 previews and I think the preview summarized the drama really well. I'm gonna try to summarize just 2 of the previews and analyze. Parts I don't understand or can't translate will be "...." or I might skip over it. GAH notice how the trailer focuses on our couple flashing some scenes of side lovers lol...

 

 

My impression: So I find that this trailer summarized the drama really well and while watching this I can see how this summarized or made the novel more alive. Especially the part with how XF states how he might really kill JM. However, as we saw the drama/depending on how it's edited the impact is on different. It this was 36 episodes as it originally was--or fair enough say they extended it to 43 as originally requested I think this drama would have been close to the source. I agree with the members how the novel was JM's pov so we can't see how other characters think --thanks to this drama, some parts of the novel could be explained well. I find that when watching these previews there are some lines and scenes that we see and do not see while watching the novel. These music videos and previews just contains parts/glimpses of more what we can see. 

 

(I can't seem to log on and soompi won't let me ask for a password reset, so I logged on with google)

I agree - because the novel was originally in JM's perspective, that's not going to translate super well into a drama format, imho anyways.  Through the book you're looking through JM's eyes, but film has a god's eye view, so to speak.  (though I do remember  hearing there was a Russian film that did a first person pov, but I never saw it.)  When the camera comes away from JM's pov, they were able to incorporate all the puzzle pieces and they all pay off neatly. 

 

16 hours ago, Yui. said:

Starting with Night, our tragic pitiful second lead. Some people don't even pity him or think his punishment isn't enough. I actually like Night as he started off being really cool, charming and you feel for him sometimes! Then he goes through the phase where his friends and family betray or hurt him which is supposed to be his justification to go "evil" at the same time it's the Night who "CHOSE" his own fate/path that lead to his downfall. Isn't it ironic how he whats to chose -- yet, he really doesn't have a chance too? I also want to point out that it was Night who chose to leave his mom (not being abandoned). Because Night had chosen the Empress --- he can't really "blame" phoenix for taking what Night wants... He chose it right? And yet...Night is one of those characters you root for him to have a chance to redeem himself and to find happiness. At times you see drama night being more evil than novel night. I really like the expanded back story ;D just wished the editing could do it in a way we get more of our main couple.

I did feel pity for RY at the start, but as soon as he started to manipulate and use people, especially JM, essentially objectifying her - that all went out the window.  YY/PCJ has a similar story an does not do what Night did.  XF similarly lost a lot and did not do what Night did.

 

I totally agree he chose his own downfall, and it all starts with him manipulating people, (and as others have said here) by his own self victimization)  He doesn't even see who's been there for him all along, he just has this tunnel vision, ultimately leading to his becoming this utter monstrosity. 

 

As for redemption/forgiveness for this character - If I was JM, Night is a person I would never trust again - maybe forgive, but never trust.  There's no way.  He's violated her far too much for that.  Though I do think forgiveness directly lies on the person/people who have been wronged - it's up to them if they can or cannot forgive the person who wronged them.  It has nothing to do with the violator, as they were the instigator.  I dunno, personally, I can't root for Night, since my thoughts are just with the people he's brought harm to.

             

16 hours ago, Yui. said:

 

Speaking of SH, I wasn't reminded how she had to let go her pride until rewatching this trailer.  In the drama we only know her as the person who really loved XF, sacrificed family (killed her human dad), manipulated those around her (Puchi who really liked her was used by her to gain Empresses trust / she uses Empress to get XF & power) . The interesting thing is SH could mirror the Empress in a sense she sacrifices and could do anything just to get power and the "love of her life". And this power is the "pride". 

SH was an interesting character for me.  There are far too many dramas with the richard simmons girl trope,  usually a concubine, who really have no motive to be awful other than wanting the dude who's not interested in her.  SH at least subverts this at least a little by being the Queen of her tribe and her motive was never just XF, it's also power.  

 

She ends up killing her father in Mortal realm, and then ends up regretting it - since he's the only person who has truly cared for her.  Like it's SH, not RY who doesn't have anybody.  That single line of her experiencing her regret over murdering that person explains her motivations of manipulating everyone around her.    

 

16 hours ago, Yui. said:

I cannot remember JM in the drama saying she's willing to be in pain for love---I feel like that's only for the trailer? We also hear repeats of other trailers and in the drama of how she realizes she loves XF after he's dead. It's so deep in the trailer of how she realizes what love is. First she asks the question and next she attempts to answer and understand it. Parts such as her moral trial, witnessing her parents death, thinking XF betrayed her etc. And this is how it differs from the novel -- the trailer makes it seem like it follows the novel vibe in how phoenix almost kills JM, but drama version it's phoenix saying he might kill her one day after being hurt by her. Whereas in the novel phoenix had pride and his frustration of JM to want to kill her because of "love" 

 

 

My impression: I love the comedy and playfulness that started in the beginning of the trailer. Remember how much it focused on how obsessed JM was focused on cultivation energy. I really wished they mentioned it in the drama like how JM asks for cultivation energy = her asking XF for love. We get this slightly at the end when JM is reborn and XF gives up cultivation energy he saved for her to marry him. There's so much symbolism and deepness if the production team kept this in mind. 

 

It's also so freaking deep when XF says he never calculated when Night calculated from the start. Notice the difference of how XF says he love JM and Night just wants JM. Going back to the part where JM confronts Night --one of my favorite scenes. She discovers why she's in pain and what love is. She says to Night how he loves himself and not her-- he calculated everything and used her up where she asks him to free her. Again I think one of the members in this thread explained how JM was the only one who saw his real form and probably one of the first people who was genuinely nice to him. Night who is afraid to show his real self and was made to hide his real self was able to show his vulnerability to JM. I remember watching a BTS/interview where Leo mentioned how Deng Lun taught him how to show emotions of love --so I think based on the script/actor's interpretation --Night did love JM but not the same type of love we know of. Of course very different from XF's love. 

 

These are my thoughts for 2/3 trailers/previews out. What are your thoughts rewatching these trailers?

In the drama (as she's dying in XF's arms)  there's a flashback to the High Immortal (Water's master - can't remember her name) who says "Where there is love, there is grief/fear" and JM says (back to the present, dying in XF's arms) "If you hold love in your heart, why be afraid of grief and fear?"  That's probably the closest of her saying she would be in pain for love, imo

 

I love how the second trailer is all comedy, as opposed to the first one is so dramatic - really HSALF is a wild ride from start to finish.

 

It is deep - it really highlights how XF's mind works - and how RY's does.  How love works, but cannot be forced or manipulated.  XF loves JM for who she is, and Night just likes how she makes him feel.  (to illustrate, when XF dies, and JM is in mourning - RY tells her he wants her to go back to who she was before.  Which really, such a terrible thing to ask of someone)

 

 

12 hours ago, teatreebiscuit said:

Thanks everyone for your detail analysis of this drama. I was confused with the part where he drags her to the battle scene. It feels as if he is still very angry with her and was using her to goad RY?It was sort of like I love her , I want her but I can't trust her thing. This drama is actually so sad even with the happy ending.

 

As I think @missnymeria pointed out, brilliantly, XF has no other choice. 

RY has hit the point of no return to get JM back, no matter the cost - he's about to genocide flower realm, and will do whatever it takes to acquire JM.  If XF didn't bring JM, there's not only a chance for RY to kidnap her, but also the fact he will blame the demon realm  for "holding her as a hostage" or something - more lies.      

 

I definitely agree that it is still sad, even through the happy ending.   

 

[ayang23]

14 hours ago, teatreebiscuit said:

Thanks everyone for your detail analysis of this drama. I was confused with the part where he drags her to the battle scene. It feels as if he is still very angry with her and was using her to goad RY?It was sort of like I love her , I want her but I can't trust her thing. This drama is actually so sad even with the happy ending.

 

I agree with Bluesy TB: missnymeria did a wonderful job analyzing and laying out why Phoenix took Jimin to the war/battle field. At this point in the story/drama, we saw that Little Fish Immortal went as far as using forbidden spells as a last resort to make him more powerful to win the battle/war....or more specifically, in hope to forcibly take Jimin back to the Heavenly Realm. So even if Jimin wasn't taken to the battle field, I wouldn't be surprised if he left the war half way while his army still fought on to find her. Jimins safest place was probably to be with Phoenix/the Demon army. Also, as someone noted previously, Phoenix in the drama is a straight forward guy (for the most part), and so if he really didn't trust Jimin, he probably would've called her out. But instead he said that he didn't trust Run Yu.

[ayang23]

Sigh and as much as I disliked Little Fish Immortal in the drama when he turned evil, I thought the actor did a wonderful job portraying the character!!! Luo Yun Xi really brought his character to life!!!!! And of course our two leads did a superb job as well!!! I saw this video with Luo Yun Xi singing a part of one of the ost theme song around the 50 sec mark!!!! Really hope our two leads would get a chance to perform the song they sang for the drama. ❤

 

[assassine]

Hello!

 

I have a really bad case of sepanx these days because of this drama. I'm currently on my third time rewatching it . The drama just brought out all these feels! I've also read the english translation of the novel and I'm so glad that they actually followed the original story and added certain things that made the drama even better. How I wish they also filmed the epilogues especially after marriage life of our OTP.

 

There were certain things I couldn't understand in the drama though. I have not seen the subs done by viki as it is not available in country so I'm hoping some of you can enlighten me:

 

1. Why is the glass fire exclusive to XF and the Heavenly Empress?

2. The eldest brother of the Heavenly Emperor and Fox immortal can contain the Light of XQ but others cannot? 

3. The Demon Princess refers to XF as Feng Xu, is it just the translation or the name means something else?

4. When Fox Immortal was giving away the bride, he discreetly asked XF why he hasn't told him about it. Were they talking about the Demon Princess substituting the bride or was it about something else?

5. When JM crushed the petal from her true form, red snowflakes fell. But when XF touched it, he spit blood. Why???

 

Spoiler

Lastly, was the marriage between XF and JM in the Demon Realm valid? As SH appeared right after the Sincerity Stone test and the wedding was not concluded/ended formally. It also didn't help the XF walked out after SH lies were exposed.

 

Please anyone explain. I won't be able to fully move on if these questions keeps popping up everytime I rewatch the drama 

[Nudafu]

On 9/19/2018 at 3:28 AM, bluesytb said:

I totally agree that both dudes were responsible.  But RY hit that point of no return - if JM did not come to the battle, he would have slaughtered pretty much everyone,   and forced JM to marry him.  JM said no to going back to RY and to the war but RY is just bent on taking her no matter what the cost, to her, or hundreds of thousands of lives.  I totally agree that XF wants revenge for everything RY has done, and is more than willing to fight, but someone has to stop RY.  There's no way out of this war - most of it is revenge, yes, but it's also defense. 

 

I expected you would point this out .

 

Logistically, the attack would be expected. I would doubt Xu Feng as a God of War to not plan for a defence. However, I think there was an intent for there to be a battle from Xu Feng. There was never any attempt to negotiate peace. Even if we assume Run Yu wouldn't be interested in peace, an assumption and no action is big in the scheme of how the battle plays out. An intent for war is an invitation for war. I can't conclude if this war was inevitable. Then again, I am a firm believer that war can always be avoided with creative intelligence and pragmatism (extra points if you pick up the pun). 

 

Quote

I actually don't remember any scene where he's choking her? I know he was raging in that scene, but I can't recall at any point him trying to kill her.

 

No, they didn't film that part. I was referring to 'if' production had of included the book scene. In the book, Xu Feng throttles Jin Mi right after she mentions the Heartless Pill:

 

"他手上一緊，我的喉頭欲斷" (his hand tightened, my throat nearly breaking)

(Source: https://novel101.com/novels/6df07874-746e-457b-bab2-facd50524365/chapters/jo)

 

Which led to the announcement of Run Yu's oncoming attack. Then Xu Feng bit Jin Mi's ear until it bled. Technically speaking, right before Run Yu's attack would be the ear bite. I read it as one continuous scene. 

 

Quote

I still believe there was more than just his pride at work. 

I'm thinking about when JM's dying in his arms and he said "I've never hated you, I've always hated myself"  When earlier he's trying to move on from JM, but he can't, especially since JM keeps coming back.  Which he tries to rationalize as a plot by RY, but he still has doubts not only about JM working with RY, but also about SH.  He's so hurt by the fact JM told him that she never loved him (or trusted him) that he has a lot of trouble trying to rationalize how he still feels about her, and yes I do agree that part of that is pride.  But also I think back to him talking to LY, and him not fully trusting SH and thinking that JM is right - like where does that put him if that's true?  It's not just his pride,  it's his guilt, and a whole lot of other emotions to process.           

I definitely think he's always been a conflicted character, between his softer side and his toxic masculinity.  Ultimately, he pays for his toxicity in the end. (or maybe I'm reading more into it than I should)

 

'Reading into' it means thoughtful analysis to me. So I get your points. I agree Xu Feng was conflicted. I just see it this way:

 

Internal (emotional conflict) -> Awareness -> External (decisions & actions as a consequence of conflict) -> Consequences

 

I think Xu Feng is perfectly okay to be as prideful and emotionally conflicted as he chooses to be. Especially considering his experiences. If he is going to hurt, it will only affect him. It's after the 'awareness' bit that there is a choice between how the internal landscape hurts people aside from himself. I don't buy the 'I love/hate you so much I need to hurt you too'. Whether intentionally or unintentionally. There is always a choice. It comes from that 'awareness' stage - considering Xu Feng from his age, learning and experience, I would expect his level of maturity to get this. But surprisingly, his character seems to lack in wisdom concerning emotional management and it's consequences. (Fair enough, Xu Feng's family would definitely be considered dysfunctional).

 

It rubs me the wrong way when hurtful projection is focused on the one you love most. That being said, I do understand it. It's the negative flipside to why we can comfortably joke with the people closest to us. Technically, Xu Feng's mother betrayed him, by committing crimes supposedly to help him. Sui He betrayed him by framing him for a murder. While I can also understand that Xu Feng having the greatest reaction to Jin Mi's betrayal is a reflection of how much emotional trust and investment he had in the relationship, in the same token, there is more reason and space to give a benefit of the doubt. And the way I see it, there was an absence for a benefit of the doubt for Jin Mi of all people. Because if one looks at Xu Feng's murder in context, Jin Mi was a pawn. She has to pay the consequences for her actions, but I usually don't see pawns in the same way as the mastermind who engineered the event. The masterminds behind Xu Feng's murder were #1. Run Yu and #2. Mama Xu Feng/Sui He (inadvertently). Yes, Xu Feng eventually gave a benefit of a doubt to Jin Mi, but only after he consciously and actively put her through pain to get to that point. Did he really need to do that? I think not. I imagine that's my point of difference with most people, but nevertheless, that is the way I see it. 

 

Quote

I think for me, the most compelling thing about the XF character is that he is so human.  Like, we've all been there - all of us have made wrong choices and ended up hurting loved ones, by holding on to our hurts, our pride and guilt.  I myself know the feeling of wanting to forgive but also being confused with other emotions & thoughts and ending up making things worse  in the long run. 

 

Agree. 

 

On 9/19/2018 at 7:51 AM, Yui. said:

I don't know why and can't exactly point out where, but I find XF in the drama kind of flat in some areas maybe because of the script or sometimes Deng Lun couldn't produce a certain emotion in his acting. I find that in the novel XF does have presence of some of Night's ambitiousness.

 

I differ with you here on these points. I thought Deng Lun's portrayal of Xu Feng had a slow burn intensity that brought Xu Feng's character alive. Which meant Deng Lun was the saving grace of all things Xu Feng. Deng Lun didn't have much to work with from both the series and novel. If it wasn't for Deng Lun's performance, I wouldn't have anything to work with to write his character. He reminded me of Wallace Chung's portrayal of Chu Beiji in 'General and I'. Both are warriors who are loud in their actions rather than words. 

 

There is a very specific purpose to my criticism of Xu Feng. It's a drive that makes me want to write from his POV. There is always a worthy challenge to write about people or events that incites our criticism. If I agreed with Xu Feng's character, I would not write about him. And apart from Xu Feng and his story (or lack of), I'm not motivated to write about anyone else. By extension, maybe Jin Mi in response to Xu Feng. Because their married life is simply hilarious. 

 

For the record, I am very nice to Xu Feng in my own writing . 

[enigmatic_zephy]

I am literally on Deng Lun fangirling mode.. the guy is awesome.. and maybe the best actor amongst the current crop..

 

This drama is so good, i never go for a second watch.. but this one  he he.. ah!.. what a sweet torture

[enigmatic_zephy]

5 hours ago, assassine said:

Hello!

 

I have a really bad case of sepanx these days because of this drama. I'm currently on my third time rewatching it . The drama just brought out all these feels! I've also read the english translation of the novel and I'm so glad that they actually followed the original story and added certain things that made the drama even better. How I wish they also filmed the epilogues especially after marriage life of our OTP.

 

There were certain things I couldn't understand in the drama though. I have not seen the subs done by viki as it is not available in country so I'm hoping some of you can enlighten me:

 

1. Why is the glass fire exclusive to XF and the Heavenly Empress?

Its phoenix clan thing. Mommy dearest is from the bird tribe, remember?!

I think it is interesting that,

Night was created solely as a strategy (either to marry eldest son to water god's daughter or for other nefarious means), however he inherits his father's genes the most - physically and mentally.

 

Phoneix is lauded as a very just,loyal, capable person... similar yet in contrast with his mother.. he is as sharp and a good strategist as his mother is.. and loyal and passionate as his mother. but she is negative force and he is positive.. He inherits his mother's genes most.. and is the one to pay for her mistakes as well..

 

nobody takes after our deceased flower deity  .. JM is more like her daddy water god

 

5 hours ago, assassine said:

•  

2. The eldest brother of the Heavenly Emperor and Fox immortal can contain the Light of XQ but others cannot? 

light is the precious object of the eldest brother (like fire is of phoenix clan, dragon has his own thingy, flowers have their own things)

Me guessing, all three are brothers so all three (fox, eldest, and current emperor) can hold it, being from same family.. but JM can't

5 hours ago, assassine said:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Lastly, was the marriage between XF and JM in the Demon Realm valid? As SH appeared right after the Sincerity Stone test and the wedding was not concluded/ended formally. It also didn't help the XF walked out after SH lies were exposed.

 

Please anyone explain. I won't be able to fully move on if these questions keeps popping up everytime I rewatch the drama 

 

[cancergirl87]

Hi all!

 

I've finally started to watch this drama. Thanks to someone from Legend of Yunxi thread for recommending it .

 

I almost reach the end and I do admit the story becomes a bit boring in the middle. But, thanks to your discussions and analysis of the series, I've decided to continue watching, especially since it has a happy ending. Again, I'm very grateful to all of you who keep this forum alive .

 

On a side note, I'm also watching Sweet Dream and just knew that the male lead is also Deng Lun (this drama has been on my watching list because of Dilireba but since it has been aired at the same time with Yunxi, I preferred to watch Yunxi first ). While watching these two dramas, it is quite amusing that both has similar things in the story, such as:

1. Flowers

     Jin Mi is the daughter of Flower Deity in HSALF while Bo Hai is a famous florist in SD.

2. Color blind

     Both Jin Mi and Bo Hai are color blind which is a sad thing since most of their lives are related to flowers.

 

[Jackie Zhou]

30 minutes ago, cancergirl87 said:

Hi all!

 

I've finally started to watch this drama. Thanks to someone from Legend of Yunxi thread for recommending it .

 

I almost reach the end and I do admit the story becomes a bit boring in the middle. But, thanks to your discussions and analysis of the series, I've decided to continue watching, especially since it has a happy ending. Again, I'm very grateful to all of you who keep this forum alive .

 

On a side note, I'm also watching Sweet Dream and just knew that the male lead is also Deng Lun (this drama has been on my watching list because of Dilireba but since it has been aired at the same time with Yunxi, I preferred to watch Yunxi first ). While watching these two dramas, it is quite amusing that both has similar things in the story, such as:

1. Flowers

     Jin Mi is the daughter of Flower Deity in HSALF while Bo Hai is a famous florist in SD.

2. Color blind

     Both Jin Mi and Bo Hai are color blind which is a sad thing since most of their lives are related to flowers.

 

 

That is exactly what I thought too of the similarity.

[ValentineJ]

On 9/22/2018 at 4:01 PM, bluesytb said:

 

I went back and forth for awhile, from raws to translations,  on different sites, then re-watched on Viki.  I'll re-re-watch again for sure.   TBH, I don't even really have the heart to watch anything else - I started Martial Universe at about the same time as I started HSALF, which I thought was kinda fun at the beginning but is just a giant mess that is super hard to watch, especially narrative wise.  I feel spoiled by HSALF - As you said,  they really did tie everything together, in a way that utilizes details throughout the series, making it super coherent.  It really is such a good production.  You care about the characters, they learn and grow, they make mistakes, they're very human in their complexity. 

 

I LOVE seeing political and sociopolitical (god why do I sound so pompous?) themes that are well done and that question society.  I love how the theme of power is portrayed, how those who are the most selfish,and manipulative literally end up with the least.  I mean RY is ultimately forgiven, (in the end) but he is still punished, and that punishment will last a long time.       (And to note,  the capitalist societies that most of us live in today often reward manipulative and selfish people/companies the most, as they will do everything to get their way)

 

Don't get me started on Viki misunderstandings, lol.  I have to wonder how much people have been actively watching to get some things so confused.

 

"XF is just like his father" Um how?  Has no desire for power and barely looks at women.

 

(during mutual cultivation )  "Does JM know what is happening?" I mean she was a doctor in the mortal realm who thought Yi was impotent soo... 

 

*Angry at XF for trying to 'steal' JM from RY* Well, considering RY lied/manipulated his way into that, since he wanted to force JM by his side, go off, I guess.  Also JM is a human person, not an object, it's not her fault she has no feelings for RY, and feelings are never owed to anyone. And ideas about deflowering/virginity as a way of determining the worth  of women are SUPER outdated and gross.  

 

"RY deserved better"  Um no.  did we forget he almost committed genocide to flower realm? And would have done the same to the Demon realm?  And started a war over a woman who wanted nothing to do with him at that point?  A woman he was literally abusive to? (not physically, but he used her, lied to her constantly, manipulated her and imprisoned her)    

The timed comments on Viki at times angered me.  It made me questioned people's mental states, especially those who glossed over Run Yu narcissistic sociopath personality or claiming Xu Feng stole Jin Min when the girl was with him for 100 years and clearly had feelings for him, despite the pill.  

[Nudafu]

On 9/19/2018 at 5:18 AM, missnymeria said:

 I read these scenes a bit differently.

 

For me, Xu Feng utterly gave up on lying to himself and fully embraced the fact that he loved Jin Mi too much to let her go right after the wedding. He forgave her, only he didn't tell her in so many words because he still had his pride to consider. Hence Jin Mi's words as she's dying: "Idiot. You finally admit it" --> ie you should have told me last night. The loving words he said during the wedding were his true thoughts but he only felt free to say them because he knew that they would help with his plan of pushing Sui He to her limits.

 

"I read these scenes a bit differently". 

 

Excellent. I always value different views. They usually make the greatest writing prompts. 

 

I've mentioned before, I don't doubt Xu Feng loves Jin Mi. However, his failure to communicate is an act inconsistent with his thoughts and feelings. We don't necessarily pay the consequences for our thoughts and feelings, but we do in action. Action = real world consequences. The fact that Jin Mi needed Xu Feng to verbally admit that he loved her points at her doubt that it is true. It may be true in Xu Feng's head, but he shouldn't have expected Jin Mi to read his mind. Fair enough if Xu Feng felt Jin Mi did not need to know. But I think there is a difference between communicating your feelings in the moment versus the necessity to do so until it is too late -  that road leads to regret. It may be a small thing, but Jin Mi would've been far happier even for the few moments before the battle and at the point of death if she knew for sure Xu Feng had forgiven her with an earlier admittance that he loved her. 

 

Quote

As mentioned by another poster above, from the moment Xu Feng sees the stone change color and discovers it was Jin Mi under the veil, he considers himself truly and irrevocably married to her. But it must have hurt both his pride and his heart to discover that Jin Mi wasn't acting of her own volition and even revealed it to the whole room. The fact that she took off her wedding dress didn't help matters either. 

 

Why does it take until the Heart Examining Stone to finally change his mind? He was changing it, but I agree it was changed at that point. These are the events that tried to convince Xu Feng:

 

1. Jin Mi at least three times. Understandably, she "killed him" and is not to be trusted. Which fails as a reason once Xu Feng is alive and speaking. Especially considering she brought him back to life. (I thought it was funny when Xu Feng seriously said: "she killed me". Me: you look pretty alive for a dead bird.) But I think Xu Feng couldn't trust Jin Mi because of the idea she 'betrayed' him with Run Yu more than she betrayed him by killing him. 

2. Moon Immortal/his uncle. I couldn't see a reason for Xu Feng not to believe his uncle on the spot. Even when Jin Mi thought to marry Run Yu, his uncle always sided with Xu Feng. 

3. His own phoenix feather. If Xu Feng thinks even his feather betrayed him, I take it that he doesn't even trust himself. 

4. Liu Ying/demon princess. Loved her punchiness for saying it as it is. I think Xu Feng actually considered her words, because in the scheme of things, Liu Ying had no reason or agenda to side with Jin Mi and therefore was the most objective of all voices. 

 

Point being: throughout #1-4, Jin Mi suffered for it. Considering Jin Mi was under emotional disadvantage due to the Heartless Pill and ultimately a pawn in Xu Feng's murder, she was a victim of the circumstance as much as Xu Feng. The difference being, she bore the full brunt of the punishment. If Xu Feng lashed out initially at Jin Mi and then went searching for the actual perpetrators behind his murder (i.e. Run Yu and Sui He), then I could accept that. Repeatedly hurting Jin Mi was unfair and wrong. Example: striking Jin Mi twice hard enough to make her vomit blood is unnecessary. If he had the power to do that, he could've struck her unconscious and sent her back home - this would've been possible even without magic or Run Yu's intervention. Looking like he regretted it or doing it for Jin Mi's good to keep her away doesn't take away from the fact that Jin Mi suffered directly from Xu Feng's actions. 

 

I get that emotional challenges are not as straightforward as updating to a new OS. Great hurts take time to heal. I don't gainsay Xu Feng for having the need to do so. But if that journey means hurting the one you love repeatedly, I think that has crossed a line. 

 

Jin Mi announcing that she wasn't in on the wedding is the truth. If she didn't make that announcement, her actions would say  she was trying to ruin Xu Feng's wedding. That, or that she was trying to trick Xu Feng into marrying her. If Xu Feng didn't want his pride or heart to suffer, he should not have rejected Jin Mi earlier nor raged to the entire court: "Who brought her here!" It looked like to me from Jin Mi's reaction to these words that she was clearly unwanted. Considering the repeated rejections and the revelation that the wedding was a facade to trap Sui He, why would Jin Mi think Xu Feng would want her again? It's a case of the Boy Who Cried Wolf. Reject someone enough, especially on the pain of death, and they won't believe you when you have seemingly changed your mind. Which runs full circle as to why Jin Mi said Xu Feng should've admitted his feelings earlier while she was dying. 

 

Quote

I think Xu Feng fully believes her when she says she had nothing to do with Run Yu's plans for war. And as he says: "It's not you I don't trust, it's Run Yu". Now that he's in possession of all the facts, his brain functions at full power and he clearly knows that the Jin Mi of the past was too naive and inexperienced to have plotted anything with Run Yu and the Jin Mi of today has done too much for him to betray him again.

 

As I've mentioned before, this entire part seemed like it was filmed as a disconnect from the story. So far, no one has proven Jin Mi innocent on her betrayal with Run Yu, and the evidence that has changed Xu Feng's mind is concentrated on who actually saved him and all that Jin Mi has sacrificed. Although movingly declared by the Moon Immortal, he really did gloss over a lot. 

 

Xu Feng didn't have any hard evidence to go by to prove that Jin Mi conspired with Run Yu to kill him. Ironically mirroring what Jin Mi did to him. It all started and rode on when Run Yu told him it was so. Run Yu admitted to guilt on behalf of Jin Mi, and Xu Feng believed him. From that point on, he used it as a rationalisation to deny anything and everything about Jin Mi. The way I see it, Xu Feng was not afraid of Jin Mi conspiring on her own to murder him or killing him. I don't see Xu Feng as a person who couldn't get over personal hurts. He experiences enough of that in war. I think he was most afraid that Jin Mi was truly in cahoots with Run Yu. Because that may mean Jin Mi didn't actually love him. I believe it all comes down to that. Behind all his hurt and betrayal, the idea that he was living in a world where Jin Mi didn't love him would be the most unacceptable thing in his existence. To a certain extent, even faced with the possibility that Jin Mi was the one who revived him, wouldn't it be awful if he lived only to realise that Jin Mi did it out of guilt without love to back it up? I honestly think Xu Feng would rather remain dead. Rather than the emotional conflict, I actually think it was replaying the broken record of 'she doesn't love me' in exclusion of all else that ironically kept Xu Feng deaf to Jin Mi's pleas.

 

If Xu Feng chose to listen to the truth of Jin Mi's words when she said: "I'm sorry" and "I love you", he would've realised he got what he wished for. All he needed to do was choose to listen to her instead of his broken record. Just for once. It only takes once to turns things around. Regardless of what Jin Mi stands for, I can't see what more anyone can expect of someone who genuinely says "I'm sorry". I saw that as an opportunity and turning point. Xu Feng just chose to not take the opportunity. Hence the play on the words: "missed opportunity [or] wrong action" (the character for "wrong" features in both statements in the Chinese version). If Xu Feng was never wrong or missed an opportunity with Jin Mi, I don't think production would've made it a point to lead to this learning curve for Xu Feng. 

 

Quote

As to why he takes her with him to the battlefield, I think he couldn't have done anything else. The safest place for her was probably next to him. The Flower Realm was under attack and anywhere else would have left her vulnerable to a kidnapping from Run Yu while he was stuck on the battlefield.

 

And there's a logic to him provoking Run Yu. He knows full well that he's handicapped by both the pill backfiring and the fact that he gave up half his cultivation the night before. His only chance to win the battle is to make Run Yu so mad that he would act rashly and make a mistake. Also, he's proud (in the good sense of the word) that he managed to nab Jin Mi as his wife and he isn't ashamed of boasting about it. Plus it needed to be made clear that Run Yu was not attacking for rightful motives so as to preserve the reputation of the Demon Realm. Although I do agree that it was also sweet revenge on Run Yu. The fact that Jin Mi was going to marry Run Yu really grated on him and he reacted very strongly when he learned that Jin Mi Had run away (although he didn't dare believe it was true). So he was like a boastful teenager claiming "I got the girl".

 

If Run Yu had backed down after learning that Jin Mi had married him, he wouldn't have attacked. He didn't want this war but he knew it was inevitable and did everything in his power to win it. Once started, the battle couldn't be stopped and there was no way he would let Run Yu take Jin Mi away now that she was finally lawfully his.

 

 

I think Xu Feng did actually wish to fight. If Xu Feng had been cleared of the cold poison (he had the chance to but he refused Jin Mi's flower) and he recovered his power to 100% and still made no moves for war, then I would be convinced. We never got there, so we are at odds in speculation. But I agree the war was inevitable as Run Yu put the pressure on. Run Yu putting that pressure on doesn't automatically mean Xu Feng didn't wish to fight. 

 

No, the safest place for Jin Mi was not with him in battle. If he truly believed this, I can't see why he could not have explained it to her. Even a: "Goddammit, I love you and need to keep you by my side" would've been more than enough to stop Jin Mi in her tracks and follow him willingly. While war is urgent, taking anyone onto a battlefield against their will is no excuse. Jin Mi didn't merely throw up a weak protest, she strongly struggled in refusal. A no means a no in my books. Love doesn't give license to ignore someone's "no". I actually have no problem with Jin Mi being at the battle per sec. I just preferred her to go on her own free will. Because that has already been messed around with for 4000 years of her young life. 

 

The plan for defence always includes protection and/or escape for innocents (i.e. women, children, elderly and disabled). Far in advance. If Xu Feng couldn't trust his own defences to protect Jin Mi from being kidnapped by Run Yu, then that would mean he couldn't trust his own defences. While Xu Feng would be considered the current greatest power in the Demon Realm, a good defence doesn't necessarily mean guarded by the strongest man. Run Yu may be intelligent, but he has no fine understanding or detail of the Demon Realm. The advantage of location intelligence is on Xu Feng's side. In actual warfare, some of the best defences have been by stealth and enemy ignorance. It would also be possible that Puchi Jun and Moon Immortal are still within hailing distance. The combined power of these two would be more than enough to protect Jin Mi against all except Run Yu (who would be busy in battle). 

 

Boasting about your wedding night in front of troops on the eve of battle: not cool. While Jin Mi declared to Run Yu she chooses to stay, don't forget she whispers to Xu Feng to basically stop it. What may've been proud boasting on Xu Feng's part was certainly not seen in the same light by Jin Mi. If he could run roughshod over her misgivings at this point, the only person I see enjoying the proud moment is him. 

 

We will have to agree to disagree as to Xu Feng's motives for the war. If Xu Feng meant to provoke Run Yu to make a mistake, he doesn't have enough personal power to battle an enraged Run Yu. If you are prepared to incite a battle, gambling on limited firepower is well, foolish. Very unlike a seasoned war leader of Xu Feng's calibre. If he intends for Run Yu to make a mistake out of acting rashly, he underestimates Run Yu big time. It was mentioned earlier in the series that Run Yu can patiently wait under the longest pressure (I think it was during one of his chess matches with Luo Lin/Water God). He also has a fine sense of timing from the nature of his work as a Night God. Both these qualities make deadly war leaders. The one thing Xu Feng could gamble confidently on was that he was definitely more experienced in war than Run Yu. Even in combat. I could trust Xu Feng to win by this alone. Boasting about Jin Mi and revving the troops were all a set up to distract from this fact. I thought the provocation was a facade to keep Run Yu from remembering that Xu Feng is a seasoned War God. Keeping Run Yu's focus on Jin Mi means less focus on how to arrange your troops according to Xu Feng's only advantage. This was Jin Mi's use for the battle. It sounds terrible, and it puts Xu Feng in a bad light, but if Xu Feng was great along the way, what on earth would he have anything to feel guilty about? What would be the point of his redemption? Redemption means somewhere along the way, a serious mistake was made. Accidentally killing Jin Mi lacks gravity to a depth of redemption built on chances missed to make things right before anyone dying.

 

From Xu Feng forcing Jin Mi to battle, boasting about her, flinging her off his arm in frustration, and not saying her name out loud until it was too late (an indicator of cold silence linked to continued resentment), I can't say I'm convinced Xu Feng was fighting for Jin Mi in battle. He accidentally and tragically killed her, but I don't think that knight had his lady's token on his arm on the eve of battle. His love for her may've started to surface, but rage and revenge kept a lid on things. This is what makes what he did in the end truly tragic I believe. 

 

I don't think the story would've lost impact if things ran like this: 

 

Xu Feng admits clearly that he forgives and loves Jin Mi in his chambers. This matters because matters of the heart should be clear cut in their intentions. No beating around the bush. Because there is so much room for misunderstanding for something so important. If "let's start over again" was enough, Jin Mi would not have needed nor requested Xu Feng to say he forgives her or affirms that he is an idiot for finally admitting it [now]' at the moment of her death. 

 

Xu Feng and Jin Mi on the same page emotionally. Jin Mi voluntarily following Xu Feng to battle. In the moments before the battle and leading up to Jin Mi's inevitable death, happiness is made all the more poignant because it is cut short with Jin Mi's death. 

 

Xu Feng grieving because he tragically killed his own happiness and will stop at nothing until he finds Her again. Because Fate has nothing on a determined Phoenix who represents hope in rebirth. 

[missnymeria]

12 hours ago, Nudafu said:

There was never any attempt to negotiate peace.

Actually, Xu Feng does say that since Jin Mi is in the Demon Realm of her own accord, there is no need or justification for a war and Run Yu should just desist and go back to the Heavenly Realm. So he did try to avoid the war although he knew that his words would fall on deaf ears.

 

13 hours ago, Nudafu said:

And the way I see it, there was an absence for a benefit of the doubt for Jin Mi of all people. Because if one looks at Xu Feng's murder in context, Jin Mi was a pawn.

She was indeed a pawn in the grand scheme of things but she did act of her own agency (even Run Yu had no way of knowing she would actually go as far as killing Xu Feng. As she said in the revelation scene, he was a gambler and he gambled big), which cripples her with guilt later on. She stabs Xu Feng in the back in the most literal sense of the term and there was no room for doubts on that part. It was impossible for Xu Feng to give her the benefit of the doubt before being told of the other facts. Only then could he start to see the big picture with Run Yu as the sole mastermind behind his murder. And even then, the fact remained that she was capable of bringing herself to kill a person who had only shown only protection and affection to her.

 

The only moment when he could have given her the benefit of the doubt was when she told him that Sui He had killed her father with glass fire. And he did give her that benefit, albeit most unwillingly. But he was so hell-bent on his own salvation by that point that he couldn't afford to explore those doubts until a third party (his uncle) laid the same facts before him.

13 hours ago, Nudafu said:

I differ with you here on these points. I thought Deng Lun's portrayal of Xu Feng had a slow burn intensity that brought Xu Feng's character alive. Which meant Deng Lun was the saving grace of all things Xu Feng. Deng Lun didn't have much to work with from both the series and novel. If it wasn't for Deng Lun's performance, I wouldn't have anything to work with to write his character.

So true! We were lucky to have Deng Lun play Xu Feng. With another actor playing Xu Feng, Run Yu and his charisma + massive character development would have steamrolled all over the character.

[missnymeria]

6 hours ago, Nudafu said:

The fact that Jin Mi needed Xu Feng to verbally admit that he loved her points at her doubt that it is true. It may be true in Xu Feng's head, but he shouldn't have expected Jin Mi to read his mind. Fair enough if Xu Feng felt Jin Mi did not need to know. But I think there is a difference between communicating your feelings in the moment versus the necessity to do so until it is too late -  that road leads to regret.

But that's the beauty of the character: he's imperfect and does make mistakes, even tragic ones which led to his endless regrets during the time she was lost to him.  Remember that he's actually super awkward at romantic love and basically knew nothing of it before meeting Jin Mi. I don't think he believed that Jin Mi didn't need to hear those words. I read it as him being so paralyzed by the guilt (after finding out all that she had secretly done for him) and shock (the stone test and bride reveal left him stunned and almost bereft) he was feeling that he just couldn't express himself out loud to another person. I mean, we're talking about a proud man who loves a woman so deeply that he's actually ready to forgive her for killing him in the most back-handed way. It's one thing to realize nothing will ever stop you from wanting and loving her and quite another to articulate those thoughts on the spot.

 

Between his clear realization, his guilt and shame and the fraught situation, it's no wonder bird boy didn't handle things as well as he could have. Both Jin Mi and Xu Feng are guilty of doing wrong by the other and both also have justification for their grudges and/or wishes. By this point their relationship is so messed up and stained by mistakes and sacrifices that it would take much more than a simple conversation to make everything right. Jin Mi's death "spared" them the decades or centuries it would have taken for them to let go of everything and fully enjoy their wedded bliss. Death has that funny way of cutting through all the b*#lsh#t and going straight to the bare bones of a matter. Only then are you able to realize that the only thing that really matters is the love you have for each other. Could they have suffered less had they made other decisions ? Yes. Could they actually have made those other decisions, considering their characters? Not so certain.

6 hours ago, Nudafu said:

Why does it take until the Heart Examining Stone to finally change his mind?

I think it's a bit like what happened in the cave: he knew that he still desired her before that scene but seeing the material manifestation of the depth of his affection (through the phoenix feather) in spite of everything she had done really shocked him and brought him out of passive-aggressive stance when it came to her visits to the Demon Realm. He's a man after all. He needs to be knocked over the head (figuratively for once) to be able to get a move on and decide on a course of action. In this case his course of action was to abandon ship and desperately try to sever all ties with her.

 

He spent years trying to cut her out of his heart but the stone proved to him how futile all his efforts were. Once again, the stone acted as an external manifestation of his true feelings. It's as if he's so afraid of and disgusted by what he truly wishes for that he needs a physical proof of the depth of his love to feel free to act. Plus, let's face it, boy was already caving in the moment he heard Jin Mi had run away from her wedding, although he didn't dare to believe it. So by the time the wedding came about, he was rabid about the idea that the heavens truly meant for them to be together. The stone and heaven's will gave him gave him the agency he needed to get out of his misery and grab onto this happiness.

6 hours ago, Nudafu said:

Which fails as a reason once Xu Feng is alive and speaking.

Still a valid reason. She did kill him. It's  just that this is a xianxia drama and almost every character gets a convenient "cheat death" card. The important thing here is that when Jin Mi chose to act, she didn't mean to kill him only to revive him later. The death was intended to be permanent and she got lucky that she was able to bring him back to life after she realized her mistake.

 

6 hours ago, Nudafu said:

4. Liu Ying/demon princess. Loved her punchiness for saying it as it is. I think Xu Feng actually considered her words, because in the scheme of things, Liu Ying had no reason or agenda to side with Jin Mi and therefore was the most objective of all voices. 

 

Yes. He did waver when his uncle came to see him and he would eventually have acted on his doubts but Liu Ying sped up the process considerably. She's an ally whose judgment he trusts. By this point he needs an impartial character to make him feel he has the right to pursue those doubts. Because, as you mentioned, he does not trust himself. He hates himself for loving Jin Mi in spite of her actions and he doesn't trust his own judgment. He's afraid of falling for her lies once again (as he sees it) and of giving her another weapon to kill him with a second time.

 

6 hours ago, Nudafu said:

If Xu Feng lashed out initially at Jin Mi and then went searching for the actual perpetrators behind his murder (i.e. Run Yu and Sui He), then I could accept that.

I believe he would have done so eventually, after his uncle came to see him.

 

6 hours ago, Nudafu said:

Repeatedly hurting Jin Mi was unfair and wrong. Example: striking Jin Mi twice hard enough to make her vomit blood is unnecessary. If he had the power to do that, he could've struck her unconscious and sent her back home - this would've been possible even without magic or Run Yu's intervention. Looking like he regretted it or doing it for Jin Mi's good to keep her away doesn't take away from the fact that Jin Mi suffered directly from Xu Feng's actions. 

The force of a blow to make her lose consciousness would have to have been much stronger than the blows he actually used and would have resulted in even more internal damage. She viciously stabbed him in the back and pulled the knife out of his chest. What he did to her was nothing compared to that. Was is right? No, not as us viewers see things. But we're all-knowing. As a character, Xu Feng was justified in his actions, in my opinion.

 

6 hours ago, Nudafu said:

As I've mentioned before, this entire part seemed like it was filmed as a disconnect from the story. So far, no one has proven Jin Mi innocent on her betrayal with Run Yu, and the evidence that has changed Xu Feng's mind is concentrated on who actually saved him and all that Jin Mi has sacrificed. Although movingly declared by the Moon Immortal, he really did gloss over a lot.

It's also based on the fact that Xu Feng does have a pretty brilliant brain when it's not all confused by torturing emotions. He also knows Run Yu pretty well. Once it was proven that Jin Mi was ready to sacrifice her life to correct her mistake, he had no reason to keep disbelieving her when it came to the rest of her story. Xu Feng is an all-in kind of guy. He doesn't deal in half-trust. So if Jin Mi was saying the truth about why she killed him, Xu Feng had to know someone had messed up the evidence in order to trick her.

 

6 hours ago, Nudafu said:

I think he was most afraid that Jin Mi was truly in cahoots with Run Yu. Because that may mean Jin Mi didn't actually love him. I believe it all comes down to that.

Yes, absolutely. It's so touching when he says that he engraved in his heart the words she said to him "I never loved you" and that he never dared to forget them, that it became a guideline for all his subsequent actions. Because he would have been ready to forgive everything and anything if she had really loved him.

 

6 hours ago, Nudafu said:

Regardless of what Jin Mi stands for, I can't see what more anyone can expect of someone who genuinely says "I'm sorry". I saw that as an opportunity and turning point. Xu Feng just chose to not take the opportunity.

Yes but, once again, we're not talking about a slight betrayal here. We're talking about her actually killing him of her own accord. Sometimes saying "I'm sorry" just isn't enough. Jin Mi knows it and it's actually killing her. She's on a kind of hopeless quest, expecting nothing in return. Xu Feng can and does get over it but it's a monumental task and can't happen overnight. We can't be too hard on him. It's already a miracle that he did forgive her before she died.

 

6 hours ago, Nudafu said:

I think Xu Feng did actually wish to fight.

Probably on some level. But he's also the Demon Lord who is responsible for the lives of millions of people. He would not have let his personal wishes get in the way of the safety of his realm. The fact that his feelings aligned with what the situation required was a bonus but I don't believe they were a deciding factor.He is not like Run Yu who literally doesn't care how many of his soldiers will die if it means he can get Jin Mi back. And let's not forget that Xu Feng has gone down on record for saying that he fights wars only to bring peace to the world. He does not go to war just for the sake of war and certainly does not provoke them.

 

6 hours ago, Nudafu said:

 

 

6 hours ago, Nudafu said:

We will have to agree to disagree as to Xu Feng's motives for the war. If Xu Feng meant to provoke Run Yu to make a mistake, he doesn't have enough personal power to battle an enraged Run Yu. If you are prepared to incite a battle, gambling on limited firepower is well, foolish. Very unlike a seasoned war leader of Xu Feng's calibre. If he intends for Run Yu to make a mistake out of acting rashly, he underestimates Run Yu big time.

Yes let's  Different points of views are always fine. I think Xu Feng had no real agency in this war thing. It came to its door while he wasn't in a good position to fight and he had to make the best out of a very bad situation. I don't see what else he could have done. Provoking Run Yu was reckless and a gamble but a drawn out battle would have meant a complete defeat for the Demon Realm. What could he have done? Run Yu was beyond reason at this point and he well knew it.

 

He was less than tactful in the way he handled things with Jin Mi but that is part of his flawed character. He's not the perfect prince of stories. He definitely should have informed Jin Mi of his intentions. But I chose to take it as him being used to playing the undisputed leader on the battlefield, no one has ever questioned him or his orders. He does have a proud, arrogant streak to him as the god of war. He's go a "I know best attitude" which completely ignored the fact that Jin Mi might not be on the same page.

[missnymeria]

6 hours ago, Nudafu said:

I can't say I'm convinced Xu Feng was fighting for Jin Mi in battle. He accidentally and tragically killed her, but I don't think that knight had his lady's token on his arm on the eve of battle. His love for her may've started to surface, but rage and revenge kept a lid on things. This is what makes what he did in the end truly tragic I believe. 

That's very open to interpretation and depends on the viewer's sensibilities. My personal take on it is that he just didn't have enough time to fully process everything. It literally just happened overnight, which is the blink of an eye for immortals. So I agree that his feelings were all mixed together. The only clear thought he had was his undying love for her. The rest (rage etc...) that you mention is still very much present.

 

 

Loving disagreeing and discussing with you  This drama is so rich and open to interpretation. It's a pleasure to read all the different takes and thoughts on it.

[grainsofrain]

I'm definitely suffering from Deng Lun withdrawals. Hope to see him in another costume drama soon~~