[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜

[lostintranslation]

With just 2 episodes left I think everyone just wants a little bit of XF angst - to make up for his hard-headed pride in making JM suffer so much before accepting the inevitable that he still loved her, and then just a LOT of happily-ever-after.  

 

But I wanted to write a few words about my struggle to understand the appeal of the RY character.  He has so many fans, and seen so much attention from the scriptwriters that I thought I must surely have missed something about his personality, that I just can't seem to get on board with at all.

 

In the novel he was not so fleshed out as a character and hence there was ambiguity in some of his motivations and the emotional demons that drove his actions - you could give him a lot of the benefit of the doubt.  In the drama so much backstory is given to him, and then so much time is spent on his machinations to overthrow the throne, usurp his younger brother's role and steal JM's affections, that you have to see him in all his stark truth.  When RY has that conversation with the ghost of XF he basic admits that he was always jealous and resentful of the younger brother who only loved him in return.  All of his 'loving' gestures and seeming sacrifices for JM were all fundamentally self-serving.  They were never about her as a person that he shared a romantic love with - just her as an object he needed to make up for all he never had - and that that object was the love of his brother's life seem to justify it even more that he deserved her.  Even saving her life was about tying her to him with guilt and obligation.  

 

I've yet to see the english translation of this last episode, but it seems that the final battle didn't have to happen as it did.  It was driven by RY's egomaniacal and vainglorious need to triumph over XF and take back JM - even though she makes it very clear who she wants to be with.  Two wrongs don't make a right is the saying, and everything that was done to RY and his mother in the past by the Heavenly Emperor and Empress does not make right or balance or justify what he does to JM and XF.  I know RY will return JM's drawings of XF, which is the least he can do - but honestly I just can't see any nobility, gallantry or heroism in him that explains all the fans of the RY character.  What are his redeeming features?!

 

At the end of the day I really like XF as the hero and I found insightful the comments from @Nudafu and @tripplestep007 about XF as a character.  I hope we finally get to see him fulfill all his potential as a hero and protagonist in these last two episodes as he undergoes his self-imposed punishment and attempts to defy fate and destiny to be reunited with his one and only grape spirit.

 

Finally, there's been a nice amount of humour in the drama.  I would love it if somehow in the final episodes the drama can capture the comedy of JM's amnesiac formless soul being confused over XF's obsession with staring at grapes even though he doesn't eat them :-) ... that would be impressive!

[BaiZiHua]

 

To everyone on this thread thanks so much for all the great comments, links to things about the drama, translations, pix and vids. It was a fun journey and I'm glad that we all got along till the very end. Makes me happy that even though we all had different opinions everyone was still respectful towards each other.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've been on a thread where there was so much drama (because everyone had a different opinions). That even if I enjoyed the drama I really dreaded going back to that thread to read further comments. Because it had negative vibes.

 

Thanks for making this journey of watching this drama very enjoyable for me. From day one I really looked forward to really everyone's post about this drama. I'm grateful to everyone that took out time to share things here. I hope we will all love the ending and everyone has good memories of this novel and the amazing actors.

 

 

 

@lostintranslation

 

The chapter about his grape obsession is one of my favorite chapters of the entire book. I think it would be amazing if they added the part about him liking grapes,about the paintings, her assuming he is ugly, & his confession of why he said Sui He's name. That chapter made me cry and laugh the most. Xu Feng's passage was very touching .

 

I'm grateful to the writers for adding the humor because it balances out the angst. My fav characters after the leads would be the Fox Immortal & the Snake Immortal. I always looked forward to seeing them. Just looking at them brought me so much happiness.

 

 

[dramacraze9006]

 

 

XF: I have came.
JM: But, I’ve already accepted the wedding invitation to the general. Right now, what should I do that’s good (right?)?
XF: Then it such a waste. I’ve even prepared 6000 years worth of magical prowess.
JM: If Its like that, then how can I make it difficult for you?
*XF offers his hands and JM grabs it*
*they embrace each other* 

XF: In this lifetime until forever. You can only be my wife** of XF, me only.
**not exactly wife but not sure what it is exactly. But basically he's claiming her as his.
 

 

 

 

 

[dramacraze9006]

XF regretting that he said SH name that night

 

 

 

XF: That night, the reason why I called out SH name

XF: Is because I want to remind myself

XF: to not let you enchant me

XF: Seeing you in pain while leaving

 

 

XF: My heart was actually in pain to the point that I couldn’t breathe

XF: I regretted that I didn’t run to you 

XF: to say it’s not what you thought 

 

 

 

XF meeting JM in the Mortal Trial house

 

 

XF: Is it really you?

JM: I will never leave you again

XF: Why is it like this JM?

 

 

XF: Don’t leave me

XF: Please don’t leave me

JM: Turns out, I was just a tear in your eyes

 

[sorein]

3 hours ago, Nudafu said:

 

It was also highlighted when Puchi Jun confessed his initial duplicity to Jin Mi. I think this scene was used to point out that Jin Mi has learnt her lesson. Jin Mi chooses to forgive, because after all she has been through, she recognises life is not black and white. The fact that she gains this insight now of all times juxtaposes beautifully with her seeing the world in black and white. I like to think Jin Mi knows to appreciate the nuances in life, even after losing it in the most tangible way.

 

Hehe...I also think Puchi Jun felt more than a bit guilty in advance, considering he kidnaps Jin Mi right after this scene. Being kidnapped to take part in a bride switch, to marry the love of your life who rejects you. Yep, I understand why the Snake and Moon duo needed to kidnap her. 

 

 

I thought that entire scene was an example of Jin Mi's new found maturity. She was perceptive enough to realise that the wedding was a performance to force Sui He to reveal herself. And she is respecting Xu Feng's apparent rejection. (Run Yu could learn a few lessons from this). 

 

Seeing as we are talking about the 'Back Hug' scene, I thought it delicious irony that Jin Mi took the events on face value as a farce, while Xu Feng is grumpy that Jin Mi didn't treat it as the real deal. During the wedding, Xu Feng's interaction with Jin Mi was as fake as the wedding itself. I didn't actually catch on to it until I was translating the scene. Xu Feng's poetic promise comes across staged, but what actually makes it moving is Jin Mi's response. Jin Mi is helplessly moved by the hope that these words are true, despite the awareness this is fake. That's the way I interpret their reactions in this scene anyhow.

 

I also think Xu Feng was in a bit of a disconnect with Jin Mi in this scene. On one hand, he is resentful that Jin Mi can't wait to drop the bride role, accusing her of not being able to stand the idea of being his wife. On the other hand, he seems to forget the last time they met, he rejected her and threatened death if she ever confessed her feelings to him again. The boy needs to learn sending mixed messages ain't going to give good results. However, Xu Feng might actually be exploring new territory with Jin Mi in terms of their relationship. Bar their traumatic history, this is the first time Xu Feng is interacting with Jin Mi when he is aware that she is aware about the love between them. Xu Feng knows Jin Mi is not clueless in love anymore, and I think this may make him nervous. He has never really wooed her when she has been this aware. I think this is why he is still caught up in his Othello complex - he can't bear the idea that a Jin Mi who understands love now, may not return that precious feeling to him. A silly bird indeed.

 

I actually thought the saddest thing in this scene was when Xu Feng repeats the poetic promise in his head.

 

From this day onwards,
I will be as one with you as husband and wife.
Even if time descends into chaos,
Great waves overwhelm the skies,
I will keep on holding your hands tightly.
Never separating, never forsaking
Together, even in death. 

 

In this moment, it would've helped if he said these words out loud. To let Jin Mi know he means them now without the farce of the wedding. Instead, he continues to maintain a front and distance with Jin Mi, effectively missing a chance to truly mend their relationship. While he does 'keep' her with him, the silly bird really does leave it unto death. 

OMG can you please work as a writer for dramas??!!!! You are much more clued up then most and you are sooo spot on.

i assume you have read the book? His behaviour makes a lot more sense in the book and it is explained why he does what he does. And although people have blamed him for making her suffer, I love his conflicted side so much as it makes him more human, real and proves that his love is the greatest. No way someone who has loved like him (to the point of wanting to sacrifice everything -  his pride, status and honour) would not go through so much hate when being betrayed by his lover. Not only did she not trust his words but she also sided with his love rival and never actually said she loved him (she said she never did) so I think this is what he couldn’t forgive, rather then the stabbing itself (even when he was dying his last words was to ask her if she’s ever loved him a bit so he would have clearly forgave her if she did say so as he was aware of Night’s manipulation and her naivety). And he said in the book that he acted the way he did because he couldn’t forget her and kept on forcing himself to be harsh. So guys, he actually suffered more than her throughout as he was totally self conscious of his feelings while thinking that she was still lying to him and loving his brother. 

I highly recommend you all read the book if you haven’t - it is more enjoyable than the drama itself.

[sorein]

15 minutes ago, dramacraze9006 said:

XF regretting that he said SH name that night

  Hide contents

 

 

XF: That night, the reason why I called out SH name

XF: Is because I want to remind myself

XF: to not let you enchant me

XF: Seeing you in pain while leaving

 

 

XF: My heart was actually in pain to the point that I couldn’t breathe

XF: I regretted that I didn’t run to you 

XF: to say it’s not what you thought 

 

 

 

XF meeting JM in the Mortal Trial house

  Hide contents

 

XF: Is it really you?

JM: I will never leave you again

XF: Why is it like this JM?

 

 

XF: Don’t leave me

XF: Please don’t leave me

JM: Turns out, I was just a tear in your eyes

 

I LOVE the first scene. Glad they used the book a lot as it proves he is not a bastard and hasn’t stopped loving her...probably the greatest lover along with Ye Hua.

[missnymeria]

1 hour ago, dramacraze9006 said:

XF regretting that he said SH name that night

  Hide contents

 

 

XF: That night, the reason why I called out SH name

XF: Is because I want to remind myself

XF: to not let you enchant me

XF: Seeing you in pain while leaving

 

 

XF: My heart was actually in pain to the point that I couldn’t breathe

XF: I regretted that I didn’t run to you 

XF: to say it’s not what you thought 

 

 

 

XF meeting JM in the Mortal Trial house

  Hide contents

 

XF: Is it really you?

JM: I will never leave you again

XF: Why is it like this JM?

 

 

XF: Don’t leave me

XF: Please don’t leave me

JM: Turns out, I was just a tear in your eyes

 

So happy about the explanation for the kiss and SH's name. The way they cut the scene with his eyes closed really bugged me because it didn't make it clear whether he knew it was JM or not.

[Nudafu]

4 hours ago, BaiZiHua said:

@Nudafu

 

Actually in ep 60 @ 30:59 he does say those words out loud and not in his head.

 

Yes, I am aware . But he is saying it as part of the 'performance' to make Sui He jealous so she would reveal her evil ways. The wedding was a trap set up by Xu Feng and Liu Ying to trap Sui He. In ep 61, Jin Mi calls Xu Feng out on this. If Xu Feng was sincere in his poetic promise, he should've said so when he was alone with Jin Mi. The poor girl still thinks everything from Xu Feng's mouth during the wedding was fake. Clearly pointing to a communication breakdown and wrong assumptions. The sneak peaks at Xu Feng's redemption scenes also show him reflecting that he should've said this, should've said that. I guess that even as a Demon king, he has to learn that people can't read his mind. Xu Feng would fry them even if it were possible and/or they tried. I think the point is that Xu Feng failed to speak clearly and truthfully in the moment. It would've solved all sort of problems. 

 

But I did enjoy the excuse to watch the scene again . It reminds me how embarrassing that ordeal had to be for Jin Mi. I winced on the re-watch. That awkward apology at the start for disturbing the wedding for some reason sounds so heartbreaking to me. It makes her look like she is trying to steal someone's groom. Ha, how would one explain to an entire demonic court that a Snake and Moon Elder kidnapped her and made her masquerade as the bride? I wouldn't believe that. And then to be proven with something like a DNA test that she is in love with their Demon king. A-wkward. At least she got to have her femme fatale moment. 

 

 

[nyaannyaan]

16 minutes ago, missnymeria said:

So happy about the explanation for the kiss and SH's name. The way they cut the scene with his eyes closed really bugged me because it didn't make it clear whether he knew it was JM or not.

Actually in the novel we only really found out why he was mean to JM and that he was only using SH in all cases after JM died. I guess we will be getting more "confessions" from him when the last episode airs. 

[BaiZiHua]

 

@Nudafu

 

I'm sorry I think I misunderstood your 2nd to last post. I thought you meant he was just thinking those words in his head haha. And our little birdy did miss a good opportunity to tell her the how he truly felt (sighs). I was sad when Jin Mi said she apologized for disrupting his wedding. I felt so bad for her she went through so much for him and couldn't say one word about it to him. Had it not been for the Fox Immortal's heartbreaking speech God knows he probably would have never known of her sacrifices.

 

There is no other drama that best describes a character as having a bird brain then Xu Feng. Still, even with his flaw I still love and support him all the way. I cannot wait for their happy ending. But, it's bittersweet for me because after their happy ending the drama will be over. Then I won't be able to get my daily fix of my grape/crow moments anymore hahaha. 

 

 

 

[renjunnie]

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

[ElleSor]

9 minutes ago, renjunnie said:

Spoiler

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

OH MY GOSH!!! Is that the little white egret?!

 

[Kimchi Sweet Potato]

37 minutes ago, renjunnie said:

Spoiler

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Spoiler

How cute is that. Their son is telling the story of their happy ending. 

 

[Phada]

7 hours ago, dashmount20 said:

Phada : she did mention about that pill. I forgot which ep cos still raw. Later will rewatch again..

 

 

 

i'm watching ep 62 now and Chief Peony (牡丹芳主) is explaining the unfeeling pill to Xu Feng and he finally believes that Jin Mi did not lie to him.

[renjunnie]

Found this!! 62 & 63

 

Spoiler

https://m.weibo.cn/status/4280630899057477

https://m.weibo.cn/status/4280624985097144

https://m.weibo.cn/status/4280489940390409

https://m.weibo.cn/status/4280621264405241

https://m.weibo.cn/status/4280619942463306

https://m.weibo.cn/status/4280618730443220

 

[dramacraze9006]

Awww her mortal realm dad 

[mrsyooknit]

5 hours ago, lostintranslation said:

 

But I wanted to write a few words about my struggle to understand the appeal of the RY character.  He has so many fans, and seen so much attention from the scriptwriters that I thought I must surely have missed something about his personality, that I just can't seem to get on board with at all.

 

 

I agree a lot with your post. I found him more ambiguous in the book while in the drama most of his actions seem to root on his jealousy of XF and his own selfishness. He never regrets his actions and even until the end, he thinks he made all the right choices. That by itself makes it hard to redeem him. He is also always saying that he did everything bc he loved JM but most of his actions were to hurt JM, never thinking about what she wanted only what he wanted. 

 

As for the paintings I think the book version makes him look better bc he goes to see XF and give him the paintings while in the drama XF comes to see him. In the drama, it makes even less sense that his only punishment is loneliness. After everything he did as a villain, he should have gotten more of a punishment. Some of the minor villains got a lot worse and they did nothing in comparison. Just look at SH's excessive punishment in drama compared to the book where she was just in heavenly jail. That was another point on his favor in the book, when he took it into his own hands to punish SH for JM. 

[dramacraze9006]

It's over 

 

 

I wished they expanded the happy ending a bit more boo hooo....Wanted to see more of XF and JM together. But at least it was a happy ending.

 

BTW poor RY, the last we saw of him was in heaven room which was mostly empty and dark with his deer and the servant girl. (sorry dk names hahahaha^^)
 

 

[Nudafu]

Okay, to be fair, I've realised Jin Mi mirrored Xu Feng's poetic promise. As in, wrote/recited something meaning to trick, but actually revealed true feelings. 

 

Where Xu Feng had is poetic promise, Jin Mi had her love poem. Jin Mi wrote that poem with - seemingly - no intention of love behind it. While I never got the drift that Jin Mi meant her poetic words (she was aiming to murder him at the point of writing), Yangzi's theme song for Jin Mi seems to indicate otherwise. The lyrics point to Jin Mi finding and living her love in a love letter. And the closest thing Jin Mi ever got to a love letter was that love poem. 

 

5 hours ago, lostintranslation said:

I know RY will return JM's drawings of XF, which is the least he can do - but honestly I just can't see any nobility, gallantry or heroism in him that explains all the fans of the RY character.  What are his redeeming features?!

 

I thought Run Yu was not meant to have redeeming features because it looked like the writing tried to give him an anti-hero path. Usually these sort of characters are meant to be pitied rather than admired. One of the most complex character journeys to develop, and one that needs dedicated story time to do it justice. This could explain Run Yu's extra screen time. The problem with this is that HSALF is Jin Mi and Xu Feng's story. Squeezing them together amounts to playing Anakin Skywalker in the background while Juliet stabs Romeo in the front stage. 

 

I'm guessing that it is not so much Run Yu that is the appeal, but Luo Yunxi who plays him. He is quite a good looking chap, wears his period drama robes well thanks to his height, and can hold his own in some of the most intensely emotional scenes in the series (e.g. mourning his mother, confrontation with Jin Mi about his scheming). I can see how this can attract a fan base. 

[dramacraze9006]

XF seeing JM one last time

 

 

XF: In the end, where are you?

*JM appears*

XF: is it really you?

JM: It’s me

JM XF

JM: I’ve came back

*hugs each other*

 

XF: I’ve been looking for you for 3 years

XF: Those 3 years where did you go?

JM: Those 3 years

JM: Those 3 years I’ve always been by your side 

JM: I saw everything that you saw

JM: I’ve heard everything that you heard

JM: With you together in one body(?)

XF: I even thought you weren’t coming back

XF: You coming back is great

XF: JM

XF: JM I was wrong

XF: Can you forgive me?

XF: Don’t leave me ever again

JM: I won’t ever leave you again

JM: We won’t leave each other ever again

JM: I won’t leave you again

JM: I won’t leave you again XF

 

*JM starts to disappear*

XF: What’s wrong with you?

XF: Why are you like this JM?

XF: Don’t leave me

XF: Please don’t leave me

JM: Seems like

JM: Seems like I was just a tear in your eyes

JM: From the beginning it was already determined

JM: In the end, we will meant to separate

XF: JM

XF: You just said that we will always be together

XF: Never will leave me

XF: JM you just promised me

XF: Don’t, don’t

 

XF: JM

XF: JM

XF: I’m begging please don’t

XF: I’m begging you please don’t leave me

JM: Don’t be like this XF

*JM disappears*

XF: JM

XF: JM