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[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦


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1 hour ago, linhlinh111 said:
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This is actually a misunderstanding (explained in the book). Al the kids in his children' generation in Qi family have the word Ming in their name as a family tradition, but ML doesn't know that so she thinks QH names them after her. All of his wives are from arranged marriages, and he treats them the best he could as a husband, he just doesn't love them.

As for to decide if he has tried hard enough, as long as he doesn't get the girl in the end, it means that he hasn't tried every ways possible, but I guess if he had that would be out of character.

One thing I don't like about GTY is how he get ML. He basically tricks and forces the Sheng family to marry her off to him. I understand that bc of his past, he would never get a yes from grandma so he has to go around a bit, but he also keeps it from ML. If he thinks he is a better spouse for ML, why not explain it to her? He knows that ML is a smart, realistic girl so she would have understood. He has many chances along the way to talk to her, but he waits until everything is set and she finds out herself. He never gives her a choice. It may sounds romantic in the book, but in reality this is an act of selfishness and disrespect. He literary pushes his opinion onto her without hearing her voice. Maybe bc he knows the kind of life in his family is not the kind that she wants and she would have refused, so he just goes on with his plan and never give her a chance to decline. And in fact after they got married ML is faced with many dangers, in many situations he is actually helpless in protecting her, she would have died several times if she made just one wrong move, something that would never happened if she were to marry off into the He family (the one her grandma picks for her). They got a happy ending at last (bless them, I got a heart attack several times along the way, but I still don't like his way of doing things. I was so pissed at him a lot of times (doesn't mean I support ML with QH though. It's hard to say who is a better match, but with her ability, she will still be fine married to either of them)

 

Spoiler

I think the only reason why He Doctor would have been safer was because she would have had the support of elders in his family. I think she still would have had problems with his lover/cousin whatever she is. Things just wouldn’t be as crazy as it would be with GTY or QH. From the previews/trailers, the part about asking for Rulan’s hand first does happen but from the snippets here and there, it seems like they will actually have GTY and ML talk about it, maybe come to an understanding before they get married. They did change it to where if the novel spoilers I read are correct, GTY and ML have a lot more chance encounters and interactions before they get married than what’s written in the novel. Especially because they introduced GTY into the drama earlier than in the novel. 

 

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4 hours ago, bulubulu said:

What happened? I read somewhere his son is gone

Spoiler

His father died. Her caring stepmother showed her true colour accusing him of being the reason of his death. Then, he discovered manniang true face. 

 

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6 minutes ago, leeza77 said:
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His father died. Her caring stepmother showed her true colour accusing him of being the reason of his death. Then, he discovered manniang true face. 

 

Spoiler

So they changed when his father died? 

 

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3 minutes ago, hello210 said:
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So they changed when his father died? 

 

Spoiler

For the stepmom, no need to pretend anymore. Whilst for manniang, the nanny discovered her pretension, told gty and he confronted her. 

 

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Granny, Ming Lan and the Strategems of War:

I just want to comment on Ming Lan's demeanor. There are those who think that Ming Lan was trained by grandma to be humble and quiet in fear of attracting attention, jealousy and suffering and needs protection which I think is an erroneous interpretation of ML's character and granny's intentions. Granny has been there, done that many times over, she is a seasoned general in the war of life, educated, served in the palace and wisened. So what she is teaching Ming Lan are strategies on how to live with strength, tact and wisdom instead of being fearful and cowering. I can't remember which episode it was that grandma and Ming Lan discussed one of the strategies #2 in the list of strategies from the Strategems of War: where grandma was teaching and asking Ming Lan if she understood her method of resolving a family issue and Ming Lan after a pause, smiled and said "Besiege Wèi to rescue Zhào"When the enemy is too strong to be attacked directly, then attack something he holds dear. Thinking about it The number one strategy is what grandma taught her while she was a child growing up and the most misunderstood by the other characters and some viewers as "fear based" is: # 1: "Cross the sea without the emperor's knowledge."  Mask your real goals, by using the ruse of a fake goal, until the real goal is achieved. Tactically, this is known as an 'open feint': in front of everyone, you point west, when your goal is actually in the east. The other characters thinks of her as "poor orphan, defenseless, unprotected, weak and easy target" which granny wanted them to think until her prized student ML was ready. So, looking over at these strategies which were devised for war but also usable in daily life, I see ML learning to be a strong, intelligent and proactive girl turned woman armed with lessons inculcated by grandma. Her quiet and calm attitude are actually marks of strength. She is like a diamond in the rough, where everytime she suffers, she is polished to shine a bit more, to be stronger and wiser. Like granny and momo whose minds have been polished to shine. Any way you can find the strategies on line and it would be fun to compare what strategy Ming Lan is using

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-Six_Stratagems

 

So whichever man she marries whether GTY or QYR, she is armed with capacity, understanding and savvy to live through whatever life with whichever man brings her, she will protect herself and her love ones including her man. Whichever man she marries, there will be times of great stress and suffering which will bring about many times of understanding and passionate loving. It is up to Ming Lan. One day she will be another granny passing on her learning and insights to her children and grandchildren. 

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52 minutes ago, zenya22 said:

Granny, Ming Lan and the Strategems of War:

I just want to comment on Ming Lan's demeanor. There are those who think that Ming Lan was trained by grandma to be humble and quiet in fear of attracting attention, jealousy and suffering and needs protection which I think is an erroneous interpretation of ML's character and granny's intentions. Granny has been there, done that many times over, she is a seasoned general in the war of life, educated, served in the palace and wisened. So what she is teaching Ming Lan are strategies on how to live with strength, tact and wisdom instead of being fearful and cowering. I can't remember which episode it was that grandma and Ming Lan discussed one of the strategies #2 in the list of strategies from the Strategems of War: where grandma was teaching and asking Ming Lan if she understood her method of resolving a family issue and Ming Lan after a pause, smiled and said "Besiege Wèi to rescue Zhào"When the enemy is too strong to be attacked directly, then attack something he holds dear. Thinking about it The number one strategy is what grandma taught her while she was a child growing up and the most misunderstood by the other characters and some viewers as "fear based" is: # 1: "Cross the sea without the emperor's knowledge."  Mask your real goals, by using the ruse of a fake goal, until the real goal is achieved. Tactically, this is known as an 'open feint': in front of everyone, you point west, when your goal is actually in the east. The other characters thinks of her as "poor orphan, defenseless, unprotected, weak and easy target" which granny wanted them to think until her prized student ML was ready. So, looking over at these strategies which were devised for war but also usable in daily life, I see ML learning to be a strong, intelligent and proactive girl turned woman armed with lessons inculcated by grandma. Her quiet and calm attitude are actually marks of strength. She is like a diamond in the rough, where everytime she suffers, she is polished to shine a bit more, to be stronger and wiser. Like granny and momo whose minds have been polished to shine. Any way you can find the strategies on line and it would be fun to compare what strategy Ming Lan is using

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-Six_Stratagems

 

So whichever man she marries whether GTY or QYR, she is armed with capacity, understanding and savvy to live through whatever life with whichever man brings her, she will protect herself and her love ones including her man. Whichever man she marries, there will be times of great stress and suffering which will bring about many times of understanding and passionate loving. It is up to Ming Lan. One day she will be another granny passing on her learning and insights to her children and grandchildren. 

With her talent and insight, she might be able to live through. But how well. QH will insist to protect her, thus limiting her potential and supressed her true self. Whilst Gty will give her freedom to achieve her full potential, thus lets her soar. 

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1 hour ago, leeza77 said:

With her talent and insight, she might be able to live through. But how well. QH will insist to protect her, thus limiting her potential and supressed her true self. Whilst Gty will give her freedom to achieve her full potential, thus lets her soar. 

Living is going through whichever life gives and learning and rising from it. It does not matter if it is QH or GTY they will also learn from her as she will from them. My point is whatever the situation and whomever it is with she will be able to handle it. It is up to her. If let's say she is with QH who will insist to protect her, situations will come up where she will be able to use the strategems  to make QH understand and so with GTY. That is what Granny is teaching her, to be her own woman. It is not about GTY or QH, it is about ML, how well she lives life is up to her.  

 

We know that in the drama she will end up marrying GTY. But then again it is about how ML manages her life. The Strategems of War teaches strategies of life in any situation encountered. 

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Thanks @zenya22 for the interesting lesson strategems of war. :)

I've never read that so I can't say I'm familiar with it. 

 

But I think it would naive to think that ML is quiet because of fear. 

I feel that she's being quiet and hiding her abilities not because she fears trouble, but she simply do not want to attract unnecessary trouble and have unnecessary fights. 

She's biding her time and learning her way so that when she goes to war, she wins, catching everyone off guard. And not fight and win unnecessary battles, whilst showing everyone her capabilities, and could jeopardize her war when everyone becomes more wary of her. 

 

Also, she may be able to handle both QH and GTY's families, but it is also true that women in that era is more oppressed, with background and status playing a significant role in their lives. 

To go with QH would mean she wants to fight the hierarchy, family, status and of course, QH's very calculative moment, the princess. Being a realist she is, I feel she simply do not want to fight the world for love. 

Also from QH's response during their class debate, it doesn't seem like he understands how hard the battle could get, as he had a relatively conflict-free life to date. 

He may learn from ML, true, but I really do wonder if he will ever truly understand her. 

 

I think we could see ML is already her own, with her own thoughts and understanding on things and her surroundings. Its also clear that she sees things with a lot more clarity than even the men. And that's why she would be able to help whoever she gets together with to achieve greater heights. 

Question is, does she want to fight alongside someone who has no experience in how these battles are fought, or with someone who has been through similar experiences? Or does she want a peaceful quiet, simple life with someone simpler (the doc)?

 

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20 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

Thanks @zenya22 for the interesting lesson strategems of war. :)

I've never read that so I can't say I'm familiar with it. 

 

But I think it would naive to think that ML is quiet because of fear. 

I feel that she's being quiet and hiding her abilities not because she fears trouble, but she simply do not want to attract unnecessary trouble and have unnecessary fights. 

She's biding her time and learning her way so that when she goes to war, she wins, catching everyone off guard. And not fight and win unnecessary battles, whilst showing everyone her capabilities, and could jeopardize her war when everyone becomes more wary of her. 

 

Also, she may be able to handle both QH and GTY's families, but it is also true that women in that era is more oppressed, with background and status playing a significant role in their lives. 

To go with QH would mean she wants to fight the hierarchy, family, status and of course, QH's very calculative moment, the princess. Being a realist she is, I feel she simply do not want to fight the world for love. 

Also from QH's response during their class debate, it doesn't seem like he understands how hard the battle could get, as he had a relatively conflict-free life to date. 

He may learn from ML, true, but I really do wonder if he will ever truly understand her. 

 

I think we could see ML is already her own, with her own thoughts and understanding on things and her surroundings. Its also clear that she sees things with a lot more clarity than even the men. And that's why she would be able to help whoever she gets together with to achieve greater heights. 

Question is, does she want to fight alongside someone who has no experience in how these battles are fought, or with someone who has been through similar experiences? Or does she want a peaceful quiet, simple life with someone simpler (the doc)?

 

 

Spoiler

In the novel she was satisfied with the doc, alas even someone simple as a doc also has his own dilemma. I. e  the dr cousin who was in love with him). Fortunately or (unfortunately) she was caught by gty's manipulation and married him. 

 

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I think you’re all right about ML’s character and Grandma’s lessons. Grandma takes ML’s thoughts into consideration which is rare in those times because young women really only had the illusion of choice, but she did make sure ML was equipped to give her best fight no matter the situation she’s in. ML puts it best during the debate “It might be better to be a simple subject instead, to be spared from meaningless fights.” Which tells us that she has a very clear and strategic view on things. Being the time frame they are in, this is why the Doc was her and Grandma’s first choice. QH was never a choice because no matter how tempting, Grandma’s (voice of reason) would not put her in that position (would be like jumping from the pot into the fire cause no matter the lessons taught, QH’s mom, being a Princess, could do whatever she wanted to ML if she was part of the household, Grandma knows from experience in the palace, and whoever the QH favors would be a target for other women). When she doesn’t have a choice and ends up marrying GTY and going into a large Nobel household anyways, we’ll definitely she her employ all the stratagems of war that Grandma has taught her and given her the chance to practice when she became the steward with her own courtyard. 

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46 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

But I think it would naive to think that ML is quiet because of fear. 

I feel that she's being quiet and hiding her abilities not because she fears trouble, but she simply do not want to attract unnecessary trouble and have unnecessary fights. 

She's biding her time and learning her way so that when she goes to war, she wins, catching everyone off guard. And not fight and win unnecessary battles, whilst showing everyone her capabilities, and could jeopardize her war when everyone becomes more wary of her. 

 

Also, she may be able to handle both QH and GTY's families, but it is also true that women in that era is more oppressed, with background and status playing a significant role in their lives. 

To go with QH would mean she wants to fight the hierarchy, family, status and of course, QH's very calculative moment, the princess. Being a realist she is, I feel she simply do not want to fight the world for love. 

Also from QH's response during their class debate, it doesn't seem like he understands how hard the battle could get, as he had a relatively conflict-free life to date. 

He may learn from ML, true, but I really do wonder if he will ever truly understand her. 

 

I think we could see ML is already her own, with her own thoughts and understanding on things and her surroundings. Its also clear that she sees things with a lot more clarity than even the men. And that's why she would be able to help whoever she gets together with to achieve greater heights. 

Question is, does she want to fight alongside someone who has no experience in how these battles are fought, or with someone who has been through similar experiences? Or does she want a peaceful quiet, simple life with someone simpler (the doc)?

 

 

I agree, thank you. You wrote and explained better what I was trying to say about  the Strategems of War and what granny is teaching her. 

 

Anyway, I never knew about the Strategems of War until granny brought it up"Besiege Wèi to rescue Zhàowhile teaching ML. Granny mentioned this story of a woman general who used the 2nd Strategem of War to defeat the enemy and helped his father to become the emperor and found a dynasty. A gate was erected in her honor and the pass where the war commenced was named after the princess heroine and still exist today. That is what ML's mother gave her a painting of the gate in the pass where the heroine princess won the day. If I am not mistaken that is what ML hung beside the painting Molan gave her at her new home. I think that since this was a special mention in the drama that this same situation and strategy may come up sometime in the drama in the life of ML and GTY? I hope so. There is a situation here where royal princes are vying for the crown prince position. So ML may be the heroine to save the day for the "emperor to be"??

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37 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

Thanks @zenya22 for the interesting lesson strategems of war. :)

I've never read that so I can't say I'm familiar with it. 

 

But I think it would naive to think that ML is quiet because of fear. 

I feel that she's being quiet and hiding her abilities not because she fears trouble, but she simply do not want to attract unnecessary trouble and have unnecessary fights. 

She's biding her time and learning her way so that when she goes to war, she wins, catching everyone off guard. And not fight and win unnecessary battles, whilst showing everyone her capabilities, and could jeopardize her war when everyone becomes more wary of her. 

 

Also, she may be able to handle both QH and GTY's families, but it is also true that women in that era is more oppressed, with background and status playing a significant role in their lives. 

To go with QH would mean she wants to fight the hierarchy, family, status and of course, QH's very calculative moment, the princess. Being a realist she is, I feel she simply do not want to fight the world for love. 

Also from QH's response during their class debate, it doesn't seem like he understands how hard the battle could get, as he had a relatively conflict-free life to date. 

He may learn from ML, true, but I really do wonder if he will ever truly understand her. 

 

I think we could see ML is already her own, with her own thoughts and understanding on things and her surroundings. Its also clear that she sees things with a lot more clarity than even the men. And that's why she would be able to help whoever she gets together with to achieve greater heights. 

Question is, does she want to fight alongside someone who has no experience in how these battles are fought, or with someone who has been through similar experiences? Or does she want a peaceful quiet, simple life with someone simpler (the doc)?

 

 

Adding to the discussion, I agree that minglan already figures herself out, she is smart and strong willed with or without QH or GTY, another question is not what kind of partner she wants, but which partner can actually drag her real self out. QH will give her love, its true, but ML will still have a barrier up because she knows she’s inferior due to her status, and she will still need to hide real self

 

the doctor is the best choice so far, simple peaceful life without feeling inferiority, but ML know how fickle men are, but

Spoiler

A childhood sweetheart? 

ML can sense trouble brewing miles away.

 

GTY shouldnt even been a choice 

Spoiler

Since he tricked ML into marriage, I’m pretty sure ML wouldnt even dream of getting involed with a man filled with trouble like GTY

ML may be adapt with war strategy, but GTY is a real life general, who knows his war, with cunningness to add. He knows how to wear ML down, patience is something he always lacks, but he have no choice but to be patient with ML if he wants to win her heart and make her comfortable being her true self

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4 minutes ago, frostflower14 said:

It seems ML and her aunt are investigating the true reason behind her mothers death and Lin Niang is worried that ML still remembers her mother

 

Does anyone know how ML will get her revenge on Lin Niang? 

Spoiler

I dunno how the drama will twist about the issue, but in the novel lin niang poisoned grandma and minglan insisted that linniang be given severe punishment (sheng hong disagreed for fear of stain to family name). Changbai supported minglan and linniang was exiled to monastery to reflect on her wrongdoings. 

 

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16 minutes ago, nichiwoohee said:

 

Adding to the discussion, I agree that minglan already figures herself out, she is smart and strong willed with or without QH or GTY, another question is not what kind of partner she wants, but which partner can actually drag her real self out. QH will give her love, its true, but ML will still have a barrier up because she knows she’s inferior due to her status, and she will still need to hide real self

 

the doctor is the best choice so far, simple peaceful life without feeling inferiority, but ML know how fickle men are, but

  Reveal hidden contents

A childhood sweetheart? 

ML can sense trouble brewing miles away.

 

GTY shouldnt even been a choice 

  Reveal hidden contents

Since he tricked ML into marriage, I’m pretty sure ML wouldnt even dream of getting involed with a man filled with trouble like GTY

ML may be adapt with war strategy, but GTY is a real life general, who knows his war, with cunningness to add. He knows how to wear ML down, patience is something he always lacks, but he have no choice but to be patient with ML if he wants to win her heart and make her comfortable being her true self

I think she would have all three men in the putty of her hands if she wanted. The Doc is mild mannered, QH is beyond infatuated, and GTY is actually very loving too. Being the main wife or favored concubine makes you a target. And also in the case of QH, anyone that comes between Princess mama and her boy’s potential can be a target. The lessons she learns would help her manage the politics of a large household.

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2 minutes ago, mrsyooknit said:

I think some supporting actors filmed Happy camp this week. One of the few dramas where I am okay with no m qss in actor filming it since I really like the cast and I think a lot of the supporting actors never had a lot of limelight. 

Yes, zly accompanied dear hubby for recording at changsa today. 

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24 minutes ago, leeza77 said:
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I dunno how the drama will twist about the issue, but in the novel lin niang poisoned grandma and minglan insisted that linniang be given severe punishment (sheng hong disagreed for fear of stain to family name). Changbai supported minglan and linniang was exiled to monastery to reflect on her wrongdoings. 

 

Spoiler

In the drama, all of Concubine Lin’s words does make it seem like she’ll harm Grandma.

 

In the novel Concubine Lin was exiled because of their trickery to get Molan’s marriage...not in the drama, but a side note...in the novel spoilers, they said that while she was exiled, she tried to escape so Wáng Shi had her locked up and had them feed her lard 3 times a day so she got fat and lost her looks. 

 

Dan Niang Wáng Shi get exiled for poisoning Grandma after Concubine Lin was exiled.

 

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