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Lynne

[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦

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6 hours ago, Lunkera said:

It's rare to see parents like Madam Zhang's. Most of these dramas the daughters are just a chesspiece. State Uncle was too stupid and naive because the concubine is a relative of his late wife. I hope he learns his lesson. Luckily ML was able to save her.

I think that he was feeling indebted to his late wife's family.  He truly loved her a lot and deeply.  I think that the Empress said that the assasins mistaken her for the Empress and she died in her place or something like that.  So the whole Shen family felt like they owed the Zhao family.  He only recently started to love again and care for his new main wife.  I do hope that he will learn his lessons but alas, his problems is very political and seemed to impact people who are powerful - Duke of Ying for example.  ML became the heroine not out of choice but necessity.  It will be a turbulent journey for our fav couple.   

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7 hours ago, dito said:

She got much condemnation after the fire. People started questioning her pure and innocent act. GTY being the smart cookie he is, is also someone who likes to hold grudges. When he saw his house on fire....he rushed in to save ML. After everything was under control he went and set fire to stepmom son's house....as retaliation. No one was hurt but the next day when the news about the fire was spreading ...another rumor started that said it was the stepmom who started the fire and to deflect suspicion from herself she burned her own son's house. It was then people started putting things together about stepmom's action....concubines, rumors of ML's bad attitude, GTY's bad reputation  were actually underhanded ways to harm GTY and ML

.

GTY went to court the next day with little burns and bruises on his face and hands and asked the emperor permission to official divide the house of Gu.....stepmom, her son, the uncles and aunts...everyone got kicked out of the Gu manor....and were given some part of the Gu property to live on. GTY and ML moved in the manor after renovating it. 

The reason stepmom went crazy was she lost everyone dear to her...her son, her grand children and it was because of her own actions. And the marquis title that she had worked so hard to get for her son was completely out of her hands after her son died and ML gave birth to another son.

Thanks @dito  Reading Makes It Worth The Watch.. Did her G/kids Die In The Fire ?

 

@leeza77  

SH slapped ML tonight.. I'm so angry with SH. Stupid SH. You slapped a heavily pregnant daughter. 

Spoiler

SH slapped ML tonight.. I'm so angry with SH. Stupid SH. You slapped a heavily pregnant daughter. 

http://p.weibo.com/show/channerWbH5/1034:4335729455869426

  •  

What episode is this ?  Looks Danning Side Kick Spilled All The Beans

 

6 hours ago, Lunkera said:

This is why i wan't him to lose everything. I hope ML & GTY with their family leave the capital in the end just like they did in the novel apparently. Just to get away from all these scheming relatives and nobles.

@Lunkera  I was wishing they leave and happy they did in The End..

 

Checking out those videos it seems CB even cut ties with his mom for what she did.. Even after she returns I'm wondering did her muddled head learn a lesson.. 

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On 2/3/2019 at 8:01 AM, minglanfan said:

In the recent ep 61 raw what was up with zhang's husband sister ?

Are you asking about younger sister of empress and General Shen?  If you're, the summary of their conversation and explanations are below....

Spoiler

She was mad because her sis-in-law (concubine of general Shen, her name I guess is Zhou Pin) was sent off to the farmstead outside the city. The decree of empress was only for concubine Zhou to receive the 50 slaps given by ED (she didn't receive over 25 earlier), took away her noble woman title (she got one though only 5th grade and lower than ML and current main wife Zhang), confined her to own courtyard and not allowing her to serve general Shen. It didn't decree her to be sent to farmstead or banish her from general manor. Minglan suggested general Shen to send CZ to farmstead as she believed that not having her at the general house is best for the children of dead main wife (older sister of CZ). General Shen and his dead main wife have 13 yrs old son, 7 and 5 years old two daughters. Minglan said that if CZ is at the manor though confined to her courtyard, she will influence her nieces and nephew, end up raising them and current main wife Zhang will not be able to raise them. Although who raises the son doesn't matter as he is the oldest son of main wife and will receive family title, it will not be good for daughters' marriages as good noble families will not take highly of the girls if they're raised by concubine instead of main wife (e.g. Molan wasn't considered highly by Wu due to raised by CL). 

All shens including empress, general and younger sister felt that they owed zhou family hugely as former main wife of general ended up dead in saving the empress Shen and younger sister from rebels/ assassins of Yan Wang (she pretended to be empress) when the new emperor, general and Huan wang went to the capital after listening to GTY's suggestion (remember that's when they met ML, received imperial decree and tiger seal, gathered jin army outside the city and went into the palace to save the former emperor). If real empress died, someone else will become empress and their position as well as that of Huan Wang will not be as high as now. General Shen wanted to share their riches and honors with Zhou family but as the wife is already dead, the only way he thought he could do was to marry the third sister of his dead wife and give them honors. However, he was still mourning for the dead wife and he really loved his wife, (1) he was hesitant in marrying the sister. At that time, the emperor decree him to marry Yin Gou Gong's daughter Zhang. (2) So, he could only take Zhou sister as concubine. He could have helped her find a good suitable husband with power to marry as main wife. (3) Since Shen brother and sisters felt bad about the dead wife, they did not control or discipline behavior of CZ and causing her not act like concubine but arrogant (attending parties including ML and GTY's house warming party) and disrespectful to the main wife Zhang. CZ and her brothers also did high interest loaning for their own financial gain in the name of their nephew (dead's wife son) thinking that empress, general shen and Huan wang who is oldest son of empress would back them up (someone killed himself due to not being able to pay back, influenced by ED). ML explained to general and his sister that above three reasons are his mistakes allowing CZ and her brothers to end up being punished like today. 

The reason emperor decreed General Shen to marry Zhang was to get support from old ministers as Zhang Yin Guo Gong has been minister of three emperors (influential minister and general since former emperor's father) and 7 other Guo Gong and older ministers listen and pay respect to him (it was mentioned that all 8 Guo Gong families and older ministers' families who have power in the capital attended birth celebration of General and Zhang's son). By having empress and Yin Guo Gong being in-laws is not only good support for the emperor but also for Huan Wang in the future. The future emperor is usually designated in favor of empress' son over the oldest one born from other concubines. That's another reason GTY accompanied Huan Wang to protect him in his salt inspection tour (since other close associates generals shen, gen or duan had to stay at the capital due to their personal and family issues) though ML's pregnancy wasn't stable yet and empress mentioned that HW has already been faced with assassination attempt twice during this tour. 

 

Also, Gui Fei was being on ED's side, trying to sow distrust between GTY and emperor as well as helping ED in empress' Shen family downfall is because she recently had a son though she was also from You Zhou. She doesn't want Huan Wang become crown prince. It is very laughable that in the face of power, she doesn't even care that her son is just over a year old and she wants to eliminate a di prince who has reached his maturity (early 20s). If drama follows the history, this new emperor only ruled for 4 years and it has been almost 2 years. 

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@nichiwoohee

Spoiler
5 hours ago, nichiwoohee said:

Wait.. isnt that the plot in the novel where manniang almost killed ml, and gty decided to just exiled her? Right down to when she was giving birth when it happened

Wait did step mom bring the richard simmons back ? 

 

@hello210

 

Spoiler
4 hours ago, hello210 said:
Spoiler

The ML is Gu Tingye, and he is the 2nd son of the primary branch in a high-ranked Marquis Family with illustrious military merits. The old Marquis had 3 wives (not at the same time--he was twice widowed), and 1 son with each.
The first wife is his great love but she was sickly, only managed to bear him a frail son after many years of marriage and died soon after. The 2nd wife is a rich merchant daughter's, and the old Marquis marries her for money (his own "noble" family was greatly in debt at the time). They have a son: GTY, then the mother also dies quickly. The 3rd time, the old Marquis marries his 1st wife's younger sister (and has a 3rd son and a daughter with her).
Now this 3rd wife is the GTY’s stepmother, but because the old Marquis switched between all these wives when he was stationed outside the capital, and by the time he returns to the capital he is married with a woman named "Qin shi" (which is the same surname that everyone knows that the 1st wife had), the details are not generally known, and the other nobles don't realize that this Qin shi is not the original wife; they don't know about the GTY’s mother, and that this Qin shi is actually the GTY’s stepmother. This only becomes commonly known when rumors start to surface that this woman may have acted with ill intentions against GTY, and then everyone has an aha-moment--because they realize she wasn't the birth mother but the stepmother after all, which would explain certain things.

As to why the stepmother targets GTY. The 1st son (also Stepmom's maternal nephew) in line to inherit is sickly and won't live long, which everyone knows, and then GTY is next in line--and is the barrier to the stepmother's own biological son, i.e. the old Marquis' 3rd son, to inherit. So Stepmom's plan from the start was to ruin GTY and get him out of the way.

GTY is over 20 years old so she took a long time planning and scheming just to get an inheritance for her son. It’s no wonder she goes crazy. She’s lived most of her life in a game of manipulations. 

 

This is kind of confusing, Now it seemed the old marquis (GTY father) should have had 4 wives.. I know both sistera didn;t have the same name..

I don't think she waited until GTY turned 20 to decide to kill him.. I'm wondering if the incident on the boat is related to her and not the Bais like he thinks.. Clearly the Bais could have taken GTY and all his mom assets would have come with him.. His Dad only kept him to live off his mom money..

 

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8 hours ago, nichiwoohee said:

 

No need to marry her off, just return her to her parents. I bet the state uncle didnt punish the concubine, that’s why ladycame,  zhang’s father is livid. 

I hope they still like minglan, gty is close to state uncle, and I’m pretty sure the zhang wants to severe ties with the shen now

The Duke of Ying and his wife had their daughter very late in life so she was very precious to them.  They asked to dissolve the weddign agreement but General Shen did not want to.  I think he is starting to care for his wife.  Duke of Ying said that as a man, he could understand that Gen Shen was indebted to his late wife's family but they have to think of their own daughter's future.  So they took her and the baby until the problem is solved.  Here is where the ED come and played her dirty tricks.  She came to visit Mrs Zhang at her parents home and told her that General Shen refused to send the concubine away so she had sent her eunuch to punished her and supposedly doing this for Mrs Zhang.  So having heard this, she was very unhappy with her husband.  

 

  

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8 minutes ago, sava2sava said:

@nichiwoohee

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Wait did step mom bring the richard simmons back ? 

 

 

 

Spoiler

In the novel the stepmom did bring mn back, this is around the same time of ml’s first baby delivery. But the drama made the stepmom brought back mn before ml was pregnant, so idk what will happen next

 

one of the reason ml doubted gty’s feeling is because she was disappointed that gty only exiled mn when she almost killed her. So I thought maybe the drama took that plot and give it to the shen

 

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7 minutes ago, frenchfan said:

The Duke of Ying and his wife had their daughter very late in life so she was very precious to them.  They asked to dissolve the weddign agreement but General Shen did not want to.  I think he is starting to care for his wife.  Duke of Ying said that as a man, he could understand that Gen Shen was indebted to his late wife's family but they have to think of their own daughter's future.  So they took her and the baby until the problem is solved.  Here is where the ED come and played her dirty tricks.  She came to visit Mrs Zhang at her parents home and told her that General Shen refused to send the concubine away so she had sent her eunuch to punished her and supposedly doing this for Mrs Zhang.  So having heard this, she was very unhappy with her husband.  

 

  

 

As in mrs. zhang the new wife of state uncle or her mother? :sweatingbullets:

that’s how a family should cherish their daughter, hualan was being mistreated but sh didnt even bat an eyelash

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The granny poisoning incident is harder to take than I imagined. 

I loved ML and I loved granny and so I was prepared for this to be heartbreaking, but it's still worse than I thought...and this is only preview...

Show really set it up for us to be so invested in their relationship...

When ML sobbed inside granny's room, my heart broke with hers. And the first thing that came to mind was "GTY come back already! ML needs you, even if it's just a shoulder for her to cry on.."

Thankfully, in the next preview, GTY turned up! 

Good to see that he's there for her when she needed him most, just the same way she was always there for him when his going gets tough...

 

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2 hours ago, hello210 said:

 

It was exactly these societal rules that kept him from being able to directly draw that line. Remember,  to the outside world, the Stepmom is virtuous and GTY is the bad son.  In fact, the Emperor purposely gave GTY a manor that was right next door to the Gu manor because he wanted GTY to reconcile with his family for propriety’s sake since GTY is now a high official. The fact that GTY and ML already in a round about way ignore Stepmom has already been seen as unfilial, especially before the walls went down and the two majors were joined. They have to bide their time until there’s a hole in Stepmom’s facade in order to legally separate the Gu household since separating a Noble household was a matter that had to be approved by court. As sad as it is, the fire and stuff was the ammunition they needed to be able to get approval as well as the Stepmom’s exposure. GTY is very lucky that ML is level headed and intelligent since she understands some of these nuances better than GTY sometimes.

 

On this point we can now compare QH and GTY's reactions faced with situations tht will bring huge impact to their personal lives, family, status and careers;

1. To protect the safety and lives of his family and ML (so they are not harmed esp after knowing what happened to his bethrothed) he chose to sacrifice his love and married the princess.

2. His stand against ED's decree and openly stated his objections n voiced his suspicions tht it was signed under duress... knowing well this will go against the Emperor's wishes and the signed decree.

 

Against final outcome he voluntarily offered to resign from his position. (He even went against the pleas of his parents).

 

Of 'cos on personal grounds he is a sorry looser.

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29 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

Are you asking about younger sister of empress and General Shen?  If you're, the summary of their conversation and explanations are below....

  Hide contents

She was mad because her sis-in-law (concubine of general Shen, her name I guess is Zhou Pin) was sent off to the farmstead outside the city. The decree of empress was only for concubine Zhou to receive the 50 slaps given by ED (she didn't receive over 25 earlier), took away her noble woman title (she got one though only 5th grade and lower than ML and current main wife Zhang), confine her to own courtyard and not to allow her to serve general Shen. It didn't decree her to be sent to farmstead or banishing from general manor. Minglan suggested general Shen to send CZ to farmstead as she believed that not having her at the general house is best for the children of dead main wife (older sister of CZ). General Shen and his dead main wife have 13 yrs old son, 7 and 5 years old two daughters. Minglan said that if CZ is at the manor though confined to her courtyard, she will influence her nieces and nephew, end up raising them and current main wife Zhang will not be able to raise them. Although who raises the son doesn't matter as he is the oldest son of main wife and will receive family title, it will not be good for daughters' marriages as good noble families will not take highly of the girls if they're raised by concubine instead of main wife (e.g. Molan wasn't considered highly by Wu due to raised by CL). 

All shens including empress, general and younger sister felt that they owed zhou family hugely as former main wife of general ended up dead in saving the empress Shen and younger sister from rebels/ assassins of Yan Wang (she pretended to be empress) when the new emperor, general and Huan wang went to the capital after listening to GTY's suggestion (remember that's when they met ML, received imperial decree and tiger seal, gathered jin army outside the city and went into the palace to save the former emperor). If really empress died, someone else will become empress and their places as well as Huan Wang will not be as high as now. General Shen wanted to share their riches and honors with Zhou family but as the wife is already dead, the only way he thought he could do was to marry the third sister of his dead wife and give them honors. However, he was still mourning for the dead wife and he really loved his wife, (1) he was hesitant in marrying the sister. At that time, the emperor decree him to marry Yin Gou Gong's daughter Zhang. (2) So, he could only take Zhou sister as concubine. He could have helped her find a good suitable husband with power to marry as main wife. (3) Since Shen brother and sisters felt bad about the dead wife, they did not control or discipline behavior of CZ and causing her not act like concubine but arrogant (attending parties including ML and GTY's house warming party) and disrespectful to the main wife Zhang. CZ and her brothers also did high interest loaning for their own financial gain in the name of their nephew (dead's wife son) thinking that empress, general shen and Huan wang who is oldest son of empress would back them up (someone killed himself due to not being able to pay back, influenced by ED). ML explained to general and his sister that above three reasons are his mistakes allowing CZ and her brothers to end up being punished like today. 

The reason emperor decreed General Shen to marry Zhang was to get support from old ministers as Zhang Yin Guo Gong has been minister of three emperors (influential minister and general since former emperor's father) and 7 other Guo Gong and older ministers listen and pay respect to him (it was mentioned that all 8 Guo Gong families and older ministers' families who have power in the capital attended birth celebration of General and Zhang's son). By having empress and Yin Guo Gong being in-laws is not only good support for the emperor but also for Huan Wang in the future. The future emperor is usually designated in favor of empress' son over the oldest son. That's another reason GTY accompanied Huan Wang to protect him in his salt inspection tour (since other close associates generals shen, gen or duan had to stay at the capital due to their personal and family issues) though ML's pregnancy wasn't stable yet and empress mentioned that HW has already been faced with assassination attempt twice during this tour. 

 

Also, Gui Fei was being on ED's side, trying to sow distrust between GTY and emperor as well as helping ED in empress' Shen family downfall is because she recently had a son though she was also from You Zhou. She doesn't want Huan Wang become crown prince. It is very laughable that in the face of power, she doesn't even care that her son is just over a year old and she wants to eliminate a di prince who has reached his maturity (early 20s). If drama follows the history, this new emperor only rule for 4 years and it has been almost 2 years. 

Thank you that answers my question 

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3 hours ago, nichiwoohee said:

 

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In the novel the stepmom did bring mn back, this is around the same time of ml’s first baby delivery. But the drama made the stepmom brought back mn before ml was pregnant, so idk what will happen next

 

one of the reason ml doubted gty’s feeling is because she was disappointed that gty only exiled mn when she almost killed her. So I thought maybe the drama took that plot and give it to the shen

 

@sava2sava From the trailer, though it is very hard to identify the woman who was trying to stab ML and/or her newborn, it doesn't seem to be MN. I don't think MN is going to reappear again since her son is already dead.

Spoiler

In the novel, MN tried to kill ML manipulated by stepmom since her son is not dead yet. I believe it is Aunty Kang who was trying to stab ML and her new born. In upcoming episode, I'm guessing she will be divorced from her husband and sent to farmstead instead of being imprisoned like in the novel. (I'm just deducing from the conversations from previews as grandma regained conscious and was stressing about influence of dead wang's father and needing to continue to be their in-laws. So, I think Aunty Kang won't be killed or imprisoned.) So, she will come back with the help of stepmom during ML's delivery. Since she tries to kill the son and noble wife of Marquis GTY who is third grade official in front of many servants, I think the crime will be more serious than poisoning the grandma through the hands of daniang. In addition, after fire broke out, everyone will know about the whole ordeal and GTY is not really in-laws with Kangs or Wangs. So, the case could be formally brought into court to get justice. Unlike GTY, SH's need to care about implicating his wife who actually sent the fruit desserts, wang being in-laws, only Sheng, Wang and Kang families know about the case and Sheng's family reputation plus he is just an scholar official who is not close associate of neither ED nor emperor. 

 

 

 

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The slap SH gave ML, although hateful and unjustified, did drive home a point.

That ML will no longer bow down to the 'master of the household'. 

And SH realised that too. When she was willing to have the family disown her in exchange for justice for granny, and SH wanted to slap her again, she took a step forward rather than a step back...shows how determined and resolute she was to get to the bottom of the matter and seek justice. 

 

If my understanding is correct, SH seems to try avoiding the matter by going off to work, only to have ML told him that she has taken time off for him on behalf. 

Forced him to face the issue...

 

If only he could see beyond saving the family's face and understand how fiercely loyal and loving ML is towards the granny...he would be able to see how well she was raised even without him playing his role as a father. 

He should be proud that she's such a filial person...

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1 hour ago, sava2sava said:

Thanks @dito  Reading Makes It Worth The Watch.. Did her G/kids Die In The Fire ?

 

@leeza77  

SH slapped ML tonight.. I'm so angry with SH. Stupid SH. You slapped a heavily pregnant daughter. 

  Hide contents

SH slapped ML tonight.. I'm so angry with SH. Stupid SH. You slapped a heavily pregnant daughter. 

http://p.weibo.com/show/channerWbH5/1034:4335729455869426

  •  

What episode is this ?  Looks Danning Side Kick Spilled All The Beans

 

@Lunkera  I was wishing they leave and happy they did in The End..

 

Checking out those videos it seems CB even cut ties with his mom for what she did.. Even after she returns I'm wondering did her muddled head learn a lesson.. 

Ep 66

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23 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

The slap SH gave ML, although hateful and unjustified, did drive home a point.

That ML will no longer bow down to the 'master of the household'. 

And SH realised that too. When she was willing to have the family disown her in exchange for justice for granny, and SH wanted to slap her again, she took a step forward rather than a step back...shows how determined and resolute she was to get to the bottom of the matter and seek justice. 

 

If my understanding is correct, SH seems to try avoiding the matter by going off to work, only to have ML told him that she has taken time off for him on behalf. 

Forced him to face the issue...

 

If only he could see beyond saving the family's face and understand how fiercely loyal and loving ML is towards the granny...he would be able to see how well she was raised even without him playing his role as a father. 

He should be proud that she's such a filial person...

If he had that sense of righteousness then ML's mom and brother wouldn't have died so painfully. CL wouldn't have had the audacity to bring him humiliation by encouraging Molan to outrageously woo 6th son of Liang.

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Watching episode 59 just brought home the fact that even though ML is very intelligent, good judge of human character she can still be cornered for harm.Granny imparts another valuable lesson to ML about treacherous human nature.

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2 hours ago, Golden Flower said:

@sava2sava From the trailer, though it is very hard to identify the woman who was trying to stab ML and/or her newborn, it doesn't seem to be MN. I don't think MN is going to reappear again since her son is already dead.

  Hide contents

In the novel, MN tried to kill ML manipulated by stepmom since her son is not dead yet. I believe it is Aunty Kang who was trying to stab ML and her new born. In upcoming episode, I'm guessing she will be divorced from her husband and sent to farmstead instead of being imprisoned like in the novel. (I'm just deducing from the conversations from previews as grandma regained conscious and was stressing about influence of dead wang's father and needing to continue to be their in-laws. So, I think Aunty Kang won't be killed or imprisoned.) So, she will come back with the help of stepmom during ML's delivery. Since she tries to kill the son and noble wife of Marquis GTY who is third grade official in front of many servants, I think the crime will be more serious than poisoning the grandma through the hands of daniang. In addition, after fire broke out, everyone will know about the whole ordeal and GTY is not really in-laws with Kangs or Wangs. SH's need to care about his wife is the one who actually sent the fruit desserts, wang being in-laws, only Sheng, Wang and Kang families know about the case and Sheng's family reputation plus he is just an scholar official who is not close associate of neither ED nor emperor). 

 

 

 

Spoiler

Well I hope it’s aunt kang, so gty could punish her freely. 

How do you think the 2nd rebellion will play out? The defending gu mansion arc is one of my fav arc, and the fact that ml was heavily pregnant while doing so really highlights the badass she is. Plus with her being pregnant the second time will explain why the stepmom getting more desperate

 

Poor minglan cant catch a break, done with the shen’s problem, here comes the sheng’s 

 

Ml should stick her tummy out as a shield, see how they dare to openly harm gty’s legitimate heir. Heads will roll

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3 hours ago, Golden Flower said:

Are you asking about younger sister of empress and General Shen?  If you're, the summary of their conversation and explanations are below....

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She was mad because her sis-in-law (concubine of general Shen, her name I guess is Zhou Pin) was sent off to the farmstead outside the city. The decree of empress was only for concubine Zhou to receive the 50 slaps given by ED (she didn't receive over 25 earlier), took away her noble woman title (she got one though only 5th grade and lower than ML and current main wife Zhang), confine her to own courtyard and not to allow her to serve general Shen. It didn't decree her to be sent to farmstead or banishing from general manor. Minglan suggested general Shen to send CZ to farmstead as she believed that not having her at the general house is best for the children of dead main wife (older sister of CZ). General Shen and his dead main wife have 13 yrs old son, 7 and 5 years old two daughters. Minglan said that if CZ is at the manor though confined to her courtyard, she will influence her nieces and nephew, end up raising them and current main wife Zhang will not be able to raise them. Although who raises the son doesn't matter as he is the oldest son of main wife and will receive family title, it will not be good for daughters' marriages as good noble families will not take highly of the girls if they're raised by concubine instead of main wife (e.g. Molan wasn't considered highly by Wu due to raised by CL). 

All shens including empress, general and younger sister felt that they owed zhou family hugely as former main wife of general ended up dead in saving the empress Shen and younger sister from rebels/ assassins of Yan Wang (she pretended to be empress) when the new emperor, general and Huan wang went to the capital after listening to GTY's suggestion (remember that's when they met ML, received imperial decree and tiger seal, gathered jin army outside the city and went into the palace to save the former emperor). If really empress died, someone else will become empress and their places as well as Huan Wang will not be as high as now. General Shen wanted to share their riches and honors with Zhou family but as the wife is already dead, the only way he thought he could do was to marry the third sister of his dead wife and give them honors. However, he was still mourning for the dead wife and he really loved his wife, (1) he was hesitant in marrying the sister. At that time, the emperor decree him to marry Yin Gou Gong's daughter Zhang. (2) So, he could only take Zhou sister as concubine. He could have helped her find a good suitable husband with power to marry as main wife. (3) Since Shen brother and sisters felt bad about the dead wife, they did not control or discipline behavior of CZ and causing her not act like concubine but arrogant (attending parties including ML and GTY's house warming party) and disrespectful to the main wife Zhang. CZ and her brothers also did high interest loaning for their own financial gain in the name of their nephew (dead's wife son) thinking that empress, general shen and Huan wang who is oldest son of empress would back them up (someone killed himself due to not being able to pay back, influenced by ED). ML explained to general and his sister that above three reasons are his mistakes allowing CZ and her brothers to end up being punished like today. 

The reason emperor decreed General Shen to marry Zhang was to get support from old ministers as Zhang Yin Guo Gong has been minister of three emperors (influential minister and general since former emperor's father) and 7 other Guo Gong and older ministers listen and pay respect to him (it was mentioned that all 8 Guo Gong families and older ministers' families who have power in the capital attended birth celebration of General and Zhang's son). By having empress and Yin Guo Gong being in-laws is not only good support for the emperor but also for Huan Wang in the future. The future emperor is usually designated in favor of empress' son over the oldest son. That's another reason GTY accompanied Huan Wang to protect him in his salt inspection tour (since other close associates generals shen, gen or duan had to stay at the capital due to their personal and family issues) though ML's pregnancy wasn't stable yet and empress mentioned that HW has already been faced with assassination attempt twice during this tour. 

 

Also, Gui Fei was being on ED's side, trying to sow distrust between GTY and emperor as well as helping ED in empress' Shen family downfall is because she recently had a son though she was also from You Zhou. She doesn't want Huan Wang become crown prince. It is very laughable that in the face of power, she doesn't even care that her son is just over a year old and she wants to eliminate a di prince who has reached his maturity (early 20s). If drama follows the history, this new emperor only rule for 4 years and it has been almost 2 years. 

@Golden Flower who is the emperor who succeeds the current one?

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21 hours ago, nichiwoohee said:

As in mrs. zhang the new wife of state uncle or her mother? :sweatingbullets:

that’s how a family should cherish their daughter, hualan was being mistreated but sh didnt even bat an eyelash

I'm sorry to say this but you're comparing apple and orange and also thinking highly of SH. SH is only 5th grade level scholar official with no power in court (he only got promoted to 4th grade this episode). He also doesn't come from noble family though grandma (who is also not his biological mom) was only daughter of Marquis of Yongyi, she already severed her ties with her maiden family. His late father was also not former influential official like Wang's dead father who was honored in imperial ancestral temple (though grandpa Sheng gained 3rd place in imperial court exam and true scholar). Hualan's in-laws are hereditary noble Count family though they were not in favor with current emperor. Their position is much higher than Sheng family. Plus, Hualan did not face near death during her delivery or pregnancy. Her mistreatment was related to financial means by her mom-in-law not from Count himself or her husband and this can be passed by saying HL herself contributed to family expenses being filial. Her son being taken away by her mom-in-law is also NOT a crime. Grandmother can raise her own grandson (in some cases it is being considered favorable for the child in case of ML since grandma came from noble family) and favorable especially since HL's husband is second son who has no right to inherit the title (so neither HL's son). Also, her mom-in-law could say that she has doubts about HL's ability and integrity to raise her grandson after Molan's scandal. The children being burned by fire burner can be considered accident and negligence of the servants not cuz of her mom-in-law.  

Zhang family has Ying Guo Gong (duke) title, 1st grade official and Guo Gong himself is accomplished general and established minister for three emperors (unlike QH's father who wasn't accomplished and doesn't have real official position though he also is a hereditary Guo Gong). Like I mentioned in earlier post, emperor decreed this marriage so that he, empress family and Huan wang can get support from older ministers with established power in the capital and their marriage is considered state's affair. Please remember emperor and empress family and relatives came from You Zhou and have no established power or big army in the capital. So, only daughter of this family had difficult early birth due to concubine Zhou bumping into her (though supposedly accident), almost died not getting immediate treatment by imperial doctor (whom Zhang family invited to help with the delivery) as well as General Shen himself not treating his new main wife and CZ right (he is not supposed to let CZ disrespect the main wife, let her attend parties though concubines aren't supposed to) became not only a big political issue but also a crime committed by Shen family. It was never new main wife's fault as she has been avoiding the conflicts with CZ, even dismissed her not to pay respect to her, stayed mainly in her own courtyard and avoided a lot of parties that CZ was attending.  Thus, Yin Guo Gong couples have every right to request to either send away CZ or dissolve the marriage amicably. Since YGG has always been righteous, it was life/death situation and not their daughter's fault, they even dare to plan to send her to the temple if she no longer wants to stay in this marriage even after emperor and empress punished CZ and her brothers (meaning if she gets sick of unprotected and unloving husband). I guess she decided to go back to general manor after CZ and her family was punished as she starts having feelings towards her husband as well as she knows her husband already developed feelings for her as well and her marriage will be fine as long as CZ behaves and not favored.  

Other posters like @linhlinh111 and @martin already pointed out the importance of scholar officials needing to have clean reputations in the court for them being able to survive in their officialship. The officials can be found fault not only in your job performance but also for your societal role and reputation related to filial piety, dealing with relatives/ in-laws, disciplining your children and servants, and family reputation as a whole being head of household. The minimal punishment will be losing your salary for a time period, not being promoted or being demoted. We also have to remember that during that era, losing the official job is not just losing it, your properties will be confasticated and you and even your family will be exiled as the most lenient punishment for that kind of crime (sometimes being jailed or killed). 

 

This is very similar situation with SH's reaction to Molan's husband request of his presence at CL's spiritual tablet erecting ceremony supposed to be held by Molan. I saw a lot of comments bashing SH and saying he still favored children of CL over ML because of his love for CL. If you watch carefully and pay attention to the conversation, SH ignored Molan. He did not say anything or have any reaction when Daniang told Molan to close her mouth and stopped talking about CL. However, Molan was very crafty and made request in front of her husband instead of in private with her father. Then, her husband who did not know the whole CL's situation, started persuading SH on behalf of his wife since CL being his real mom-in-law. Please remember Molan's husband Liang Han did not know about CL helping arrange Molan meet Liang Han and spread the news of their involvement and LH carrying Molan at the temple. In addition, SH has to give some face to this son-in-law who came from noble County family since his family status is higher than Sheng. (You can see SH gave GTY's face too by listening to him as GTY is a third grade official as well as Marquis when he stepped in.)  If he kept his silence or kept refusing the request, he needs to give a solid reason to LH, meaning he has to reveal why CL's was buried in farmstead and why her spiritual tablet is not at the temple. Then, Liang family will not only look down on Molan but the news will spread and the whole Sheng family's reputation will be ruined. He also need to deny about ML's mom death in front of LH even if he found out the truth from ML (I doubt he knew the truth till ML brought up about witness and doctor's testimony) to save his family's reputation. If his family's name is ruined, not only his official position, but also CB's officialdom, CF's career and the lives of all his 4 daughters at their in-laws' homes will be at risk. By having one CL killed another CW and him not knowing, he can lose his officialdom or at least be punished and all his kids are at risk, especially CF and Molan. Thus, accusing him of not loving ML and only favoring CL's children is too extreme. If you look at beginning episodes, there are a few scenes where SH's eyes expressions show his love for ML. Although it was not shown but briefly mentioned that he took ML to Daniang's courtyard and asked her to be raised together with HL and RL. It is just that drama doesn't really have much time to show his fatherly side towards ML and they dramatized and spent a lot more time about his relationship with CL. Also, you need to remember all people in Sheng family has been fed and clothed by SH's salary and income from his properties. Although ML was raised by grandma, the money they spent and their pocket money all come from common which is SH's money. The grandma, Daniang and CL have their own personal separate income which they saved and used for their children future and dowry. SH didn't help CL cover up with ML's mom death. It was CL who was clever enough to make it hard to find fault blaming everything on servants and those servants such as Momo who could deliver mainly come from Wang family with Daniang. Unfortunately, grandma, SH and Daniang were all out of town and CL was able to manipulate everything to be rid of most of the faults off her shoulder.  She made it so that her main fault was not being able to control the servants and ask them to work diligently but she also claimed that the servants didn't listen to her. So, SH took away her authority to manage the house and neglected her for a while. Yes, it was his fault in favoring CL more than he should.  However, we have to remember SH's weakness of his childhood trauma of his mother and him being treated badly by his father's other wives and ignored by grandma who was main wife. In addition, CL made him feel that he owed it to her (her children as well via her) for becoming his mere concubine (not even highly honored concubine, there are different levels of concubine in chinese) though she is a talented di daughter from good official family (Both CL's parents are from good scholar official families and her father was also a mid level official. If her father didn't die early and her mother couldn't manage the family properties well, she wouldn't end up being poor and sent to grandma). Some of you might argue that he could have investigated more thoroughly like ML finding the doctor who took her mom pulse once but he didn't even know that doctor existed or what that doctor told CL since CL got rid of everyone who can be on CW's side including Shao Tie. ML's mom death not getting justice at that time was not only SH's fault but also partly grandma's. Being the oldest and main mother of the family, SH requested her involvement and manage the house but he ignored his request and only took ML in, told him to sell the servants at the capital and told him to treat the main wife right. That's why grandma apologized to ML for not taking her sufferings into consideration when ML took the matter into her own hands and got the testimony from the doctor. 

I have restrained commenting on some of the characters like Sheng Hong, Daniang, QH, stepmom, QH's wife since most of the posters here are not seeing them from their perspectives but considered them plain evil since they disrespect ML, harm ML and give her and GTY troubles and I did not want to type more arguments. I hope this long post won't cause displeasures for a lot of you. I just think that we should watch the drama like this for story, all characters' development, and presentation not just for OTP's moments. The reason that I have interest in this drama is because all the characters are grey (not all black or all white, villains characters' motives can also be reasoned and understood) though the writers still make OTP characters a lot more favorable, more flushed out compared to other characters and ML involved in every single problem/issue even before she got married. I think the reasons these characters being hated by viewers especially international viewers are (1) their background story and their characters are not being flushed out well/ not enough time to show though mentioned briefly here and there (it is hard for viewers to understand, absorb and remember everything from subtitles) (2) trying to force or include some of the new/ unimportant plots so that they can involve ML or give more OTP time (3) trying to dramatize some scenes though they don't follow the logic of previous scenes. (I have given examples of some scenes in the beginning of the drama but I'm not going to do that here as too long to explain some nuances in writing and not as effective as explaining verbally.)

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15 minutes ago, nichiwoohee said:
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Well I hope it’s aunt kang, so gty could punish her freely. 

How do you think the 2nd rebellion will play out? The defending gu mansion arc is one of my fav arc, and the fact that ml was heavily pregnant while doing so really highlights the badass she is. Plus with her being pregnant the second time will explain why the stepmom getting more desperate

 

Poor minglan cant catch a break, done with the shen’s problem, here comes the sheng’s 

 

Ml should stick her tummy out as a shield, see how they dare to openly harm gty’s legitimate heir. Heads will roll

Well, stepmom will gladly harm gty's heir and ml, big tummy or not. Whilst stupid Sh is not a gentleman. 

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