[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否？知否？应是绿肥红瘦

[lilkat75]

 

Can I also chime in with everyone that Xiaotao and Shitou are so adorable  How dare those gossiping women belittle those fried cherries  I also  when ML was initially polite with QH's wife (Lady Shen?) by saying to ignore the titles of aunty and niece. Then when Lady Shen became a bit passive-aggressive, ML addressed her as a niece in law LOL. Okay, so jokes aside, I really got to appreciate that ML and Lady Shen were frank afterwards. Even though we didn't get to see the whole conversation, it seems Lady Shen was actually open and understanding in being able to listen to ML. Despite being a minor character who I was worried about being the stereotypical catty/jealous woman and previously feeling a bit neutral about, she seems pretty nice. Also, when ML goes to speak to the wife of state uncle (Lady Zhang) and have a heart to heart conversation about life. She too, also a minor character, does not fall under the stereotypical role and I'm loving the more positive representation of women. I think this episode really highlighted the struggles of women (not that others didn't). These two women are actually easier to be more sympathetic towards, have redeeming qualities and their actions are not based on inherently bad morals unlike step-mother and aunty Kang who don't seem to have any from what I've seen  As for GTY and ML... they just got to be more honest with each other, especially on GTY's part like personally I really hate it when you're trying to talk to someone but they won't explain it all but expect you to understand. I admit ML can be a little dense with some of her own personal matters like grandma once said but has such deep conversations with others LOL. Communication is key in all relationships and that's all I have to say for now. To me QH, I truly hope he'll be able to move on in a way even though he'll forever love ML.

[frenchfan]

2 hours ago, m0us3y said:

In episode 52, the conversation between ML and Danju really drove home some really sad truths. 

 

Women, in general, could never expect an equal relationship. If she isn't pregnant, she should let the husband take in women who could help with the propagation of the family bloodline. 

When she gets pregnant, she will be once again forced to take in more women to "serve" the husband while she's pregnant. 

That's their fate....

 

And worse, is the fate of the servants..

Danju went as far as offering themselves to serve GTY when ML gets pregnant so that no other spies/woman would come to the household. 

When Molan made the grave mistake, the maidservants were beaten to death. 

When QH displeased his mom, Buwei was beaten to death. 

Their life is worth as much as whatever the master deemed it to be. 

XiaoTao, Danju and CuiWei are all very "lucky" for ML cares for them, and wouldn't sacrifice them for her own benefit, but it does show how sad the fate of servants can be. 

 

Comparatively, human to human, QH's fate is far more fortunate. Born as Di, son of Duke, he could pursue his dreams. He has a say in his life. He could to some extent, control his own fate. And he would never have to share his wife with other men. 

 

I used QH as comparison, and not GTY because QH has been moping around, blaming fate for the lost of his love. But really, looking at the bigger picture, comparatively, he hasn't lost that much...but he wouldn't be able to see that, because he was born entitled at the very first place. 

Talking about maid, let's not forget Molan's maid.  After they came back from Sheng luncheon, it seems that ML and GTY remarks about Linniang and Molan put a seed of doubt in him and when the maid came to tell Molan's hubby that Molan has a headache and need a doctor, he confronted her and threatened her to divulge the truth.  That he would "treat" and "dote" on her if she tells the truth. You could see that she cringed when he touched her.  Such is their fate.  Unless Molan agrees, she cannot leave and fromt heir conversation, Linniang promised to release her so she could go back to her hometown.  Not everyone aspire to be a concubine. The maids knows that it is a difficult life.  At any time you could gain favour but also in a plit second, could be disfavoured and get beaten to death etc.......

 

Then the conversation that Danju had with ML was heartbreaking indeed.  I hope that GTY will continue to spoil her and visit her bedroom even if she get pregnant and not take on those concubines that they got landed with from "concerned family members".    

[lilkat75]

3 minutes ago, shihuangdi said:

@cherubstomato when I was watching Ruyi/Yanxi, I was discussing with my friends how life inside the palace is really bad. But life as a maid/slave would even be worse. We came to a conclusion at that time, that if we became daughter of the Lords then maybe it wouldn't be as bad, since we would be powerful enough not be bullied but not significant enough to be killed by those who want power. And then we watch Minglan ... and life as daughters of the Lords are just equally as bad 

No win-win situation either way because I mean in commoner families, people also had concubines and had to work harder/fewer luxuries? Maybe like Rulan mentioned it would be better to be animals like dogs or cats LOL. 

[frenchfan]

1 minute ago, lilkat75 said:

 

Can I also chime in with everyone that Xiaotao and Shitou are so adorable  How dare those gossiping women belittle those fried cherries  I also  when ML was initially polite with QH's wife (Lady Shen?) by saying to ignore the titles of aunty and niece. Then when Lady Shen became a bit passive-aggressive, ML addressed her as a niece in law LOL. Okay, so jokes aside, I really got to appreciate that ML and Lady Shen were frank afterwards. Even though we didn't get to see the whole conversation, it seems Lady Shen was actually open and understanding in being able to listen to ML. Despite being a minor character who I was worried about being the stereotypical catty/jealous woman and previously feeling a bit neutral about, she seems pretty nice. Also, when ML goes to speak to the wife of state uncle (I tried looking for name but??) and have a heart to heart conversation about life. She too, also a minor character, does not fall under the stereotypical role and I'm loving the more positive representation of women. I think this episode really highlighted the struggles of women (not that others didn't). These two women are actually easier to be more sympathetic towards, have redeeming qualities and their actions are not based on inherently bad morals unlike step-mother and aunty Kang who don't seem to have any from what I've seen  As for GTY and ML... they just got to be more honest with each other, especially on GTY's part like personally I really hate it when you're trying to talk to someone but they won't explain it all but expect you to understand. I admit ML can be a little dense with some of her own personal matters like grandma once said but has such deep conversations with others LOL. Communication is key in all relationships and that's all I have to say for now. To me QH, I truly hope he'll be able to move on in a way even though he'll forever love ML.

You can chime in anytime you want.....hahaha.  This is a place where we can chime in freely   I too like Xiaotao and Shitou.  So adorable.  They are a match made in heaven.  Both stoic and loyal to their masters.  

When Lady Shen kept calling ML aunty, she was purposely drawing the line and when ML called her niece in-law, it was so funny.  QH's wife was taken aback as she was not expecting a gentle rebuke from ML.  Served her right though.  ML in her usual calm manner took the bull by its horn and had a frank talk with her to ironed out the obvious issues.  I like it.  It is better than going round circles and dropping hints when obviously only a straight to the point truth will work.  Bravo Minglan!

 

Then of course I congratulated her for being intelligent enough to get the queen's favour and gratitude to help restore peace with the Zhang family who is her sister-in-law.  I believed she is Duke Ying's daughter?  Killing two birds with one stone.  Made friends with Lady Zhang and thereby gaining more social acceptances from the higher echelon of court is a way of her helping GTY as well.  

 

I cannot wait to see the downfall of those awful vengeful harpies : Madame Kang and Madame Qifn (QTY's stepmom).  

[lilkat75]

59 minutes ago, frenchfan said:

Talking about maid, let's not forget Molan's maid.  After they came back from Sheng luncheon, it seems that ML and GTY remarks about Linniang and Molan put a seed of doubt in him and when the maid came to tell Molan's hubby that Molan has a headache and need a doctor, he confronted her and threatened her to divulge the truth.  That he would "treat" and "dote" on her if she tells the truth. You could see that she cringed when he touched her.  Such is their fate.  Unless Molan agrees, she cannot leave and fromt heir conversation, Linniang promised to release her so she could go back to her hometown.  Not everyone aspire to be a concubine. The maids knows that it is a difficult life.  At any time you could gain favour but also in a plit second, could be disfavoured and get beaten to death etc.......

 

Then the conversation that Danju had with ML was heartbreaking indeed.  I hope that GTY will continue to spoil her and visit her bedroom even if she get pregnant and not take on those concubines that they got landed with from "concerned family members".    

4

@frenchfan Have to agree, I felt pretty bad for Molan's maid like she just wanted to be free and with her family but noooo Molan and sixth son prevented her from leaving. No win-win situation especially since you'll be the concubine to the husband of your previous mistress and you know she's not nice...  Everyone seems to have a hard life especially servants 

 

 @dito @linhlinh111 it seems to me that this will not be the big argument we were all looking forward too and that they will have another which makes them more open. Since at this point, communication between ML and GTY is not exactly clear in words about their love with each other. Obviously, they show it by their actions, affection and respect for each other. However, I feel like it'll have to be more explicitly spoken for some more development. 

[eim1]

I believe GTY was sincere when he offered to help QH  and of course GTY is aware the QH loves Minglan but the point is QH lost his chance.He was the one who asked GTY to give the doll to Minglan since he cannot fulfill his promise to make Minglan his wife.All is fair in love and war. He has to move on same as Minglan.

[aoife86]

1 hour ago, Katrina Abdul Talib said:

Again my POV aft watching up to eps 54.. if GTY's proposal was on equal grounds with QT (did not involve palace) and dowries still not sent, I think marrying QH should be the better option. 

 

That QH and ML without doubt and known to many are in love, being mamas boy and tht mama now have consented, their live could be less problematic, less stressful hence more peaceful and happier??... prolly even having lots of children (QH had twins right?)

 

We can feel how sincere and open both were when they had that conversation on the bridge.

 

I actually think Dr. He is the better option regarding peaceful and happier marriage life. Dr. He already decide not to take his cousin as concubine and his grandma and mother like ML. He’s not that wealthy but not poor either, no need to be afraid about food and etc, no palace drama, no one will want to kill them. He’s unlikely to take concubine too because again he’s not that wealthy and isn’t an official, and based on what I saw, he’s not a womanizer.

[sava2sava]

2 hours ago, shihuangdi said:

That Auntie Kang is so annoying, why does she bother with Minglan so much when she is not even related to her. I can understand the evil stepmother or evil concubine or evil wife of ex boyfriend or evil half sister, but Auntie Kang is fully an outsider. She is not even the sister of Sheng Hong, she is the sister of Wang Ruofu. Even Wang Ruofu is not that evil towards Minglan. What is she gaining from being evil to Minglan? At least with the stepmom, it would be the Gu wealth and title. 

 

When GTY fifth aunt was interfering with the maids at GTY new house, Minglan indirectly told her off that she is nobody. At least she has a little shame and left after realising that she is not even her mother in law nor sister in law. Why is Auntie Kang has no shame and why is Minglan not saying anything??

@shihuangdi  First off Auntie Kang with a plan to get into ML home.. She moved to the capital just for this reason of course it didn't make matters any better when step mom ask her if she had anyone around her to make as a concubine after the Grand Aunt of GTy concubine couldn;t get any where with him so of course she would comply especially after the lies she's told to those women about how ML took over the Sheng house..

 

I'm looking forward to how ML handkles these two vicious villians.. Step mom hooking up with the Aunt to see if ML would reject her.. ML sees through ste mom plans and the Aunts.. I tell you if she didn't have her in her book of bad and good deeds she has made herself a reciept now.. ML lives of the idea you do bad to me you can expect my bad in return.. Step mom by all means out to get rid of ML away from GTY because she can't make him out to be Her plan is to keep using those barrowed knifes of hers until the end..    

 

I see now step mom plans are getting more evil then before, She needs to get rid of ML and GTY by all means, I think it's time ML and GTY take one from the step mom books and use barrowed knives to go after her.. I think 4th and 5th Aunts and Uncles will be good at this job even grand Aunt will be of help all thats needed for the fourth house is getting the son out of exile and for the fifth house a piece of money will do are threaten to break up the houses they would comply.. 

 

AS GTy says pretentious display of proper etiquette should be displayed for all to see when handling such a person as evil step mom.. It's time they starts ripping that mask off her face for all to see asap..

2 hours ago, Mena Mohamed said:

But that concubine thing.Did she know that he doesn`t touch her or not? also she asked him about her in ep 54 if she make any trouble for him.well.Minglan.I lift up my hat for your coldness .she looks like he totally doesn`t care when her maid said GTY was cold these days.and when he was mad going to the court she said maybe there`s some problem there..where is your smart head girl

---------------

About their fight scene.was that fight scene that we were waiting for?.i don`t think they will sort out their feeling that way.But also it was so funny when ML rode that thing and he change his tone voice and say i won`t ride with her.he is so childish when it come to ML really.

@Mena Mohamed  We all see GTY loves his wife to no end, It's not a concubine love and affection he wants.. GTY wants ML love and affection.. He's totally right she don't have a clue to what love is and to recipricate the love thats given to her.. Until he figures out how to get her to treat him equally which she don't there marriage will always have problems regardless to how many concunbines are brought in, All because she's scared of a mans heart changing..    

 

2 hours ago, Katrina Abdul Talib said:

Again my POV aft watching up to eps 54.. if GTY's proposal was on equal grounds with QT (did not involve palace) and dowries still not sent, I think marrying QH should be the better option. 

 

That QH and ML without doubt and known to many are in love, being mamas boy and tht mama now have consented, their live could be less problematic, less stressful hence more peaceful and happier??... prolly even having lots of children (QH had twins right?)

 

We can feel how sincere and open both were when they had that conversation on the bridge.

@Katrina Abdul Talib  GTy had every right to make his marriage possible by all means.. Even if the proposal was over the top involving the courts.. That's a man you call a go getter something that QH don't have the guts to do.. He's been sheltered by his mom and Dad titles has always not having to work for anything he has until he had to take the test for the imperial exam and still everything he needs always been provided for him.. I don't think he's the man for her because all of ML past aggression he wouldn't have a clue on how to address them or get her to talk about them.. As far as QH mom goes it would have came to the point she would find something to look down on her status about.. Remember how ruthless QH mom is and a leapord don't change they spots overnight regardless to what she had experience.. If QH falls from grace in the courts and no mom and dad to fall back on.. How would he survive to proviode for a family if he has one.. There's no go out and get things done in him he's just a whinny mamas boy carrying a grudge.  

[mooose]

34 minutes ago, aoife86 said:

 

I actually think Dr. He is the better option regarding peaceful and happier marriage life. Dr. He already decide not to take his cousin as concubine and his grandma and mother like ML. He’s not that wealthy but not poor either, no need to be afraid about food and etc, no palace drama, no one will want to kill them. He’s unlikely to take concubine too because again he’s not that wealthy and isn’t an official, and based on what I saw, he’s not a womanizer.

 

Didn't he cave and take his cousin in after she played the suicide card? He then sent her to their country home to look after his mother.

 

Of the three, QH, Dr He and GTY, there is only one ruthless enough to protect her from bullying relatives wanting to stuff in concubines. 

[cherubstomato]

56 minutes ago, shihuangdi said:

@cherubstomato when I was watching Ruyi/Yanxi, I was discussing with my friends how life inside the palace is really bad. But life as a maid/slave would even be worse. We came to a conclusion at that time, that if we became daughter of the Lords then maybe it wouldn't be as bad, since we would be powerful enough not be bullied but not significant enough to be killed by those who want power. And then we watch Minglan ... and life as daughters of the Lords are just equally as bad 

 Honestly, if all these woman stop schemin/killing each other and agree to not fight over the masters attention, it’d be a great life. Lol

 

39 minutes ago, aoife86 said:

 

I actually think Dr. He is the better option regarding peaceful and happier marriage life. Dr. He already decide not to take his cousin as concubine and his grandma and mother like ML. He’s not that wealthy but not poor either, no need to be afraid about food and etc, no palace drama, no one will want to kill them. He’s unlikely to take concubine too because again he’s not that wealthy and isn’t an official, and based on what I saw, he’s not a womanizer.

Yass, I liked Dr He too... That man is more concern and excited when he finds rare herbs. It’s quite cute. He is very down to earth... 

His cousin was indeed quite pitiful though it’s just too bad her family are greedy. But that’s probably an easier problem to handle like when ML asked cousins mom what position should they be in/addressed as so there is no confusions in the future, comparing to the problem ML has now in the Gu household. Dr He was a little combination of QH and GTY. 

[cherubstomato]

9 minutes ago, mooose said:

 

Didn't he cave and take his cousin in after she played the suicide card? He then sent her to their country home to look after his mother.

 

Of the three, QH, Dr He and GTY, there is only one ruthless enough to protect her from bullying relatives wanting to stuff in concubines. 

I think that was after the granny told him the truth that cousin couldn’t give birth anymore and ML also agreed too. Dr He although he doesn’t have a backbone unless you push him, he has a good heart... 

[frenchfan]

13 minutes ago, mooose said:

 

Didn't he cave and take his cousin in after she played the suicide card? He then sent her to their country home to look after his mother.

 

Of the three, QH, Dr He and GTY, there is only one ruthless enough to protect her from bullying relatives wanting to stuff in concubines. 

He did indeed.  He kind of was forced to.  He looked at ML's wedding procession from afar and told his cousin that he will be off for a few years on a medicine tip and she is to go mind his mum.  I can't understand all these women wanting to kill themselves when they didn't get their way.  You can see Minglan being irritated with all those melodramas (she being a woman, understood that this is only a ploy). At least Minglan found out that there was this cousin before she committed to Dr He.  HIs aunt is as conniving and manipulative as Madame Kang.   

[frenchfan]

8 minutes ago, cherubstomato said:

I think that was after the granny told him the truth that cousin couldn’t give birth anymore and ML also agreed too. Dr He although he doesn’t have a backbone unless you push him, he has a good heart... 

Wayyyyyyyyy too nice though.  Imagine this scenario : He could come back and say "oh by the way, I met this woman and she has such a pitiful life, so I decided to take her in...."  In his defense, he did truly wanted to marry Minglan.  Him making all those delicious soup for her when she fell ill was just so sweet.  Anyway, water under the bridge now eh since his plan was spoilt by his aunt.  If I were him, I too would go on a jaunt for a few years. 

[frenchfan]

BTW in one of the trailer for future episodes, seems like QH is going to land himself in a hot soup with the emperor when he insisted why the ED wasn't there.  The emperor left the court hall and you could see QH gulping nervously.  I hope he will not fall for the ED ploy and be her puppet but I fear that his family ties will kind of make him do her bidding.  

 

*******

GTY is lucky to have ML as wife as she is more cautious.  Example, when Manniang resurfaced and tried to strangle Rong'Er, he got mad and would have killed Manniang in rage but ML interfered knowing that evil stepmom would be watching them 24/7.  She calmed him down and got him to see reasons and planned what they should be doing next. Always thinking ahead so whatever happens will not impact him and his place at court.  Like the ED, the emperor has a BUY-1-FREE-1 with the Gu family.   Stepmom was curious why there was no hooha as she knows well GTY's temperament and her maid told her that ML interfered.  Then when the grand aunt of GTY came to give him a concubine, ML accepted and thwarted stepmom's plan to get close to grand aunt as she was anticipating ML to refuse like she did in the past. I am pleased to see that they are such a matching couple.  

 

*******

I am anticipating the poisoning of grandma next.  I want to see angry ML.  "I want justice" like in the trailer       

[cherubstomato]

28 minutes ago, frenchfan said:

Wayyyyyyyyy too nice though.  Imagine this scenario : He could come back and say "oh by the way, I met this woman and she has such a pitiful life, so I decided to take her in...."  In his defense, he did truly wanted to marry Minglan.  Him making all those delicious soup for her when she fell ill was just so sweet.  Anyway, water under the bridge now eh since his plan was spoilt by his aunt.  If I were him, I too would go on a jaunt for a few years. 

Where, who, LOL all he does is climb mountains find herbs.... I don’t think he will do charity work on woman bring them home. He is a gentleman but he is not a ladies man. And he listens to ML. But I also think ML wasn’t that interested in him. Maybe it was just me.  Ok if I time travel in the era I’ll be Dr He main wife... I can handle the cousin and her richard simmons mom. Everyday we go hiking for herbs... 

[m0us3y]

If they were playing on equal ground for ML, I would concur that Dr.He would possibly be the most peaceful. The couz is indeed a problem, but the granny in the house dotes on her. If Dr.He is on her side, ML stood a chance for a relatively peaceful life. 

But ML never really liked him or care for him..

 

QH, I don't know...ML is simply not one to look back. I do believe that at one point, ML felt good about him, infatuation with ideals or truly something more, I'm not sure. But no matter how beautiful something is, once smashed, it's hard to put it back to its original state. There will always be cracks and lines, unpleasant memories...

And his mom isn't exactly someone easy to deal with. With QH's being such a filial son, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place, and that puts ML in a very difficult position too. 

 

GTY has enemies left, right, center, front, back, top and bottom. 

But he does love her, and fiercely protective..

More importantly, he allowed her to be her...

 

For her own happiness, I'd still say GTY is her best fit. 

Because he can make her laugh again when she's down, 

Because he will protect and stand up for her, but more importantly, 

Because it seems like he's the only one she can be herself...without the facade, without the mask, without the pretense. 

 

[frenchfan]

1 minute ago, cherubstomato said:

Where, who, LOL all he does is climb mountains find herbs.... I don’t think he will do charity work on woman bring them home. He is a gentleman but he is not a ladies man. And he listens to ML. But I also think ML wasn’t that interested in him. Maybe it was just me. 

LOL, I did not say he is a ladies man but he was very kind hearted like his mom (which was why grandma was pissed off).  Before Minglan interfered he was going to "find solutions" so his cousin could stay with them.  I was just giving a hypothesis that it could happen.  Not because he was a playboy but rather because he is the kind that will buy sob stories and will be puny in hands of women like Manniang, Linniang and Molan for example.  True, I laughed when I saw that he got so excited when he found a rare roots (herbs..?) and excitedly showed Minglan and she was so patient and did not laughed at him.  

 

I agree that ML was not that interested in him however even she could see that he is a nice guy and was prepared to listen to her grandma and marry him.  

[cherubstomato]

@m0us3y Yes, I agree.. ML is definitely for GTY.... 

 

 

Dr. He is for me.... 

[linhlinh111]

3 hours ago, m0us3y said:

  Hide contents

 

Indeed...but in an era where there are more people dying from famine, struggling to stay warm, struggling to have enough food to feed the family, or just threading on thin ice to ensure they don't anger their master and lose their lives for no reason or fault of theirs, getting into loveless political marriage and forced to take over the family household is a luxurious problem to have. 

I guess it's fair to say everyone is fighting their own battle, where the aristocrat is also fighting each other to stay in power or not lose favour of imperial family/ powerful officials. 

 

Just that if we look at it holistically, they are by far, much more privileged. 

And if they are men, born into a noble family, by a legitimate/main wife, it's really a jackpot.

Even right now there are similar places somewhere around the world. 

 

Jackpot or not, it depends. For example, rich countries have higher suicide rate than third world countries. A large proportion of the elites have mental problems, depression from light to clinical. It depends on each individual's perspective and expectation of life. Having it easier doesn't equal satisfaction, the pressure is high. Not every heart and mind is equally strong. But of course it's an era when happiness is a luxurious gift.

[hello210]

4 hours ago, Katrina Abdul Talib said:

Again my POV aft watching up to eps 54.. if GTY's proposal was on equal grounds with QT (did not involve palace) and dowries still not sent, I think marrying QH should be the better option. 

 

That QH and ML without doubt and known to many are in love, being mamas boy and tht mama now have consented, their live could be less problematic, less stressful hence more peaceful and happier??... prolly even having lots of children (QH had twins right?)

 

We can feel how sincere and open both were when they had that conversation on the bridge.

 

54 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

If they were playing on equal ground for ML, I would concur that Dr.He would possibly be the most peaceful. The couz is indeed a problem, but the granny in the house dotes on her. If Dr.He is on her side, ML stood a chance for a relatively peaceful life. 

But ML never really liked him or care for him..

In my opinion ML wouldn’t really be happier with QH. Based on QH’s parents conversation, his mom would always have a prejudice against her for being Shu born and worse, mom’s will usually find issues with daughter-in-laws that have too much of their husband’s attention in those days. She may have consented but that doesn’t necessarily bode well for the future if they ever gain footing again in politics. 

        Also, if the suitors were on equal footing and played “fair”, there would not have been the trick to get rid of Doc He, so QH still never had a chance. ML would have married Doc He. She does not look backwards and Grandma already wrote QH off because of before. If no tricks were played, Doc He’s cousin was a nonissue. The cousin only came into picture because of GTY. Remember that the cousin was only released from her situation (someone else’s woman) and they were allowed to enter the capital because of GTY. As Grandma said, normally, exiled people are still not allowed into the capital and must return to their hometown.