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[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦


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44 minutes ago, gleek49 said:

 

1. ML is the one who accepted the concubine, she herself knows that he's gonna sleep with that girl one way or another, he did not set out to hurt her, he was doing exactly what she told him to do. He's just mad that she didn't seem to bother letting him sleeping with other girls, he might as well do exactly that, right?

2. How is that the same? Please elaborate? At that time he did not know that MN was evil, he would have to marry a main wife anyway, what was so wrong about him trying to find one who's nice and more likely to accept MN and his children? So you think he was evil for doing that or what? Should he just marry any girl without caring if said wife is going to throw his children out?

It was hilarious when that lady woke up in the middle of the night alone cause GTY had snuck out. She waited all that time and he didn’t touch her.

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Let's all keep a civil attitude when posting.  No need to call anyone names or insult each other.  This is just a drama based on a fictional web novel.  None of the characters are real. 

 

And we are all just fans that are enjoying the drama.  It is fine to have different opinions on the characters and plotline.  We can post our thoughts but that doesn't mean that others have to agree with us. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree. 

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11 minutes ago, hello210 said:

It was hilarious when that lady woke up in the middle of the night alone cause GTY had snuck out. She waited all that time and he didn’t touch her.

Jajajaja he just look too cute to try and find excuses to make her wait till she fall asleep.

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22 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

ML accepted the concubine but does she really knows shes hurting GTY by doing this? I dont really think so.. GTY went out of his way to make ML jealous or upset her...

 

So because he didnt know MN was evil that disregards anything he richard simmons done? he still had sex with a female outside of marriage and got her pregnant not once but twice.. this already shows how he was as a man.

 

What's wrong with him hiding the fact he has 2 children and another women from the person hes intending to marry? you really just asked that... He wanted to keep it hidden then basically force that wife to accept them..

 

Are you re writing history or just blind.. he was never upfront about MN or his children to the lady he intended to marry he wanted that hidden until he married her so yeah he was evil for attempting to do that. 

 

1. Again, he stayed in that girl's room because she wanted him to, which part of it is "went out of his way"?

2. Yes, I was blind, he was "evil" for sleeping with a woman before marriage, because all of the men in the drama were virgins before marriage. Yes, he was wrong, literally everyone in the drama and audience was trashing him for it, but at that point the children were born already, he still had to take care of them and he tried his best to find a solution for them, you called that "evil"? It's not like the girl would be completely screwed being his main wife? She was going to be main wife, the power would still be in her hand if she's smart enough. He made mistakes, I'm not denying that, he's still paying for it until today. I thought we got pass this? I thought we all agree that he has earned his rights to start over? Why are you still holding this over his head?

3. You're still not answering my question. I'm saying that it hurts him that ML always expect him to betray his promise, betray her. How is that mistake of his that you were talking about remotely similar to what I was saying?

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7 minutes ago, gleek49 said:

2.Yes, I was blind, he was "evil" for sleeping with a woman before marriage, because all of the men in the drama were virgins before marriage. Yes, he was wrong, literally everyone in the drama and audience was trashing him for it, but at that point the children were born already, he still had to take care of them and he tried his best to find a solution for them, you called that "evil"? It's not like the girl would be completely screwed being his main wife? She was going to be main wife, the power would still be in her hand if she's smart enough. He made mistakes, I'm not denying that, he's still paying for it until today. I thought we got pass this? I thought we all agree that he has earned his rights to start over? Why are you still holding this over his head?

I concur. The only reason GTY faced critique was because the other men of that time made the women they slept with have abortions or just cast them and their illegitimate children aside like they were trash.

GTY taking in MN and especially his children despite so much censure from the public and his family is what makes me admire him. IMO casting them aside (or even getting rid of them like his family suggested) would have been evil.

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I really enoying the way the drama portrays ML&TY's marriage/life. Its not always smooth sailing & 

fields of flowers, but seeing them both tackle/fix problems head on together is great. Good riddance to those horrible servants & farmstead contracts.

 

It's bittersweet that ML is projecting her sentiment towards TY that stems from her father's shortcomings since childhood. It's understandable that ML doesn't want to be disappointed & hurt, but TY has proven himself on many occasions that he genuinely loves her w/ all his heart. Hopefully, more development will address this internal conflict. Communication is key for both characters. 

 

I wonder if ML would feel this kind of sentiment if she'd chosen QH. QH is such a boring alternative & hasn't shown to be formidable. He passed the imperial exam & he's virtuous, but he's just bland in terms of characterization. He reads like a pampered saint on blank paper, which doesn't make for an interesting character. TY is realistic & he's such a defined/well-rounded character w/ history & experience, while transcending through struggles, much like ML.

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40 minutes ago, gleek49 said:

 

1. Again, he stayed in that girl's room because she wanted him to, which part of it is "went out of his way"?

2. Yes, I was blind, he was "evil" for sleeping with a woman before marriage, because all of the men in the drama were virgins before marriage. Yes, he was wrong, literally everyone in the drama and audience was trashing him for it, but at that point the children were born already, he still had to take care of them and he tried his best to find a solution for them, you called that "evil"? It's not like the girl would be completely screwed being his main wife? She was going to be main wife, the power would still be in her hand if she's smart enough. He made mistakes, I'm not denying that, he's still paying for it until today. I thought we got pass this? I thought we all agree that he has earned his rights to start over? Why are you still holding this over his head?

3. You're still not answering my question. I'm saying that it hurts him that ML always expect him to betray his promise, betray her. How is that mistake of his that you were talking about remotely similar to what I was saying?

 

I mean he still could have refused and said right there and then ML i only want you , but instead he went out of this way to try make her jealous...

 

No hes Evil in that situation to keep it a secret that he has another women and 2 children before marriage. He clearly intended to force the children and another concubine on his weak wife without letting her know before hand.

 

Im not saying hes wrong to look after his kid's/MN but not telling the wife before hand is incredibly wrong.

 

Why would ML trust GTY's character based on what she knows hes done in the past.. him saying he will only love her and only her mean's nothing during that era. 

 

The first comment of yours i replied to was about you defending his character..like hes some righteous no mistake saint, she has every right to question and think about his character. 

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1 hour ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

ML accepted the concubine but does she really knows shes hurting GTY by doing this? I dont really think so.. GTY went out of his way to make ML jealous or upset her...

 

So because he didnt know MN was evil that disregards anything he richard simmons done? he still had sex with a female outside of marriage and got her pregnant not once but twice.. this already shows how he was as a man.

 

What's wrong with him hiding the fact he has 2 children and another women from the person hes intending to marry? you really just asked that... He wanted to keep it hidden then basically force that wife to accept them..

 

Are you re writing history or just blind.. he was never upfront about MN or his children to the lady he intended to marry he wanted that hidden until he married her so yeah he was evil for attempting to do that. 

I'm confused everyone knows he married MN and he has children when he wanted to marry Yanran, the only fault was that he was trying to sabotage someone's happiness for his mistress and children's peace.. While he was even oblivious of how evil the stupid mistress he is fighting for is.. GTY lived some stupid and dumb days back then though.. Wow 

 

36 minutes ago, gleek49 said:

 

1. Again, he stayed in that girl's room because she wanted him to, which part of it is "went out of his way"?

2. Yes, I was blind, he was "evil" for sleeping with a woman before marriage, because all of the men in the drama were virgins before marriage. Yes, he was wrong, literally everyone in the drama and audience was trashing him for it, but at that point the children were born already, he still had to take care of them and he tried his best to find a solution for them, you called that "evil"? It's not like the girl would be completely screwed being his main wife? She was going to be main wife, the power would still be in her hand if she's smart enough. He made mistakes, I'm not denying that, he's still paying for it until today. I thought we got pass this? I thought we all agree that he has earned his rights to start over? Why are you still holding this over his head?

3. You're still not answering my question. I'm saying that it hurts him that ML always expect him to betray his promise, betray her. How is that mistake of his that you were talking about remotely similar to what I was saying?

Exactly, ML, even though she had no choice accepted the concubine, and she even believed that he will sleep with her, so he is just doing what she planned, even though it hurts each other, so I think the concubine issue was a misdeed from both of them, even after accepting the lady, she shouldn't always view it that he will sleep with her, and even though she viewed it like that, GTY shouldn't also play along the game and become as childish as her.. So it's still the same saying, they should just argue and pour everything out from their heart.. 

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48 minutes ago, gleek49 said:

 

1. Again, he stayed in that girl's room because she wanted him to, which part of it is "went out of his way"?

So glad she’s not really a concubine. They haven’t made anything official so there’s still no Xiao Niang in that Gu household. I think that’s what happens to all the women that get pushed onto GTY. They either find ways to marry them off or find other uses for them and take care of them financially but no official marriage as concubines.

Spoiler

Thought I saw in the novel spoilers that the first two women the prince gifted him, GTY married them off as ghost brides so the prince gave him four dancers who got used, not as bedmates, but as actual dancers :lol:

 

Hmmm...maybe that’s why the girl tries to hurt herself in front of ML later because she didn’t get a concubine position like she originally thought and the fact that GTY wouldn’t sleep with her so she can try to establish a position.

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9 minutes ago, Suzzy San said:

I'm confused everyone knows he married MN and he has children when he wanted to marry Yanran, the only fault was that he was trying to sabotage someone's happiness for his mistress and children's peace.. While he was even oblivious of how evil the stupid mistress he is fighting for is.. GTY lived some stupid and dumb days back then though.. Wow 

 

Exactly, ML, even though she had no choice accepted the concubine, and she even believed that he will sleep with her, so he is just doing what she planned, even though it hurts each other, so I think the concubine issue was a misdeed from both of them, even after accepting the lady, she shouldn't always view it that he will sleep with her, and even though she viewed it like that, GTY shouldn't also play along the game and become as childish as her.. So it's still the same saying, they should just argue and pour everything out from their heart.. 

 

No everyone did not know about MN and his two children when he wanted to marry Yanran.. maybe you forgot but MN showed up after the marriage was proposed that's when they found out about her.. then she sent her kids there so they knew about the children as well.

 

If Yanran's family knew straight up about the kids and MN they would have refused out right .GTY never intended to let Yanran know about the kids and MN until after Marriage. 

 

He still said he would only be with her etc.. yet he even wanted to tease her by going with the Concubine?

 

Him even pretending to sleep with the concubine basically prove's all her worry's were correct. 

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30 minutes ago, gleek49 said:

Are you re writing history or just blind.. he was never upfront about MN or his children to the lady he intended to marry he wanted that hidden until he married her so yeah he was evil for attempting to do that. 

 

What about Madam Wu not being upfront to the Shens about 6th Liang's pregnant mistress? Was that evil?

 

I think marriage matters were a matter of due diligence by parents. Of course bachelors with a clean background and backyard were more eligible. Not making it public doesn't make GTY evil. GTY was living openly in the city with MN and kids, he didn't hide her in the countryside. The information was available if you looked just like 6th Liang info.

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7 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

I mean he still could have refused and said right there and then ML i only want you , but instead he went out of this way to try make her jealous...

 

No hes Evil in that situation to keep it a secret that he has another women and 2 children before marriage, he clearly intended to force the children and another concubine on his weak wife without letting her know before hand.

 

Im not saying hes wrong to look after his kid's/MN but not telling the wife before hand is incredibly wrong.

 

Im saying that his mistakes are part of the reason why she does not trust him and its right for her not to trust him based on what she know's. 

 

Why would ML trust GTY's character based on what she knows hes done in the past.. him saying he will only love her and only her mean's nothing during that era. 

 

The first comment of yours i replied to was about you defending his character..like hes some righteous no mistake saint, she has every right to question and think about his character. 

Hmm you are right and wrong, I think the Era excuse is not the excuse at this point, there were a lot of women, at that Era, not in the film, that enjoyed passionate love.. The matters of the heart is the same no matter the era.. So the only excuse that can be used to understand ML is her childhood experience of an unloving father.. Ml"s experience of failed relationships made her heart go into extinct not the Era.. The Era excuse is just like blaming the society MN grew up with made her into evil person, which is not, it's all about the heart and what one wants to do, the society might play some role in defining us but it can never play a role on what the heart decides... So her not trusting that simple word of I will do anything for you, is because of her experience 8of failed promises, not the Era at all

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15 minutes ago, Suzzy San said:

Hmm you are right and wrong, I think the Era excuse is not the excuse at this point, there were a lot of women, at that Era, not in the film, that enjoyed passionate love.. The matters of the heart is the same no matter the era.. So the only excuse that can be used to understand ML is her childhood experience of an unloving father.. Ml"s experience of failed relationships made her heart go into extinct not the Era.. The Era excuse is just like blaming the society MN grew up with made her into evil person, which is not, it's all about the heart and what one wants to do, the society might play some role in defining us but it can never play a role on what the heart decides... So her not trusting that simple word of I will do anything for you, is because of her experience 8of failed promises, not the Era at all

 

A lot of women did not enjoy passionate love or only one wife it was incredibly rare , its both the era and her past experience's . Shes acting a certain way due to the era not just due to past experience's. 

15 minutes ago, mooose said:

 

What about Madam Wu not being upfront to the Shens about 6th Liang's pregnant mistress? Was that evil?

 

I think marriage matters were a matter of due diligence by parents. Of course bachelors with a clean background and backyard were more eligible. Not making it public doesn't make GTY evil. GTY was living openly in the city with MN and kids, he didn't hide her in the countryside. The information was available if you looked just like 6th Liang info.

 

Yeah it was evil and wrong. GTY picked a weak wife he could basically force MN and his children on to me that was pretty evil, he was not living openly in the city with MN and the kid's and that family did not know about MN and the kid's. 

 

My point was not really to re trace these past debate's but to give some reason's why ML might question his character.

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1 minute ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

No everyone did not know about MN and his two children when he wanted to marry Yanran.. maybe you forgot but MN showed up after the marriage was proposed that's when they found out about her.. then she sent her kids there so they knew about the children as well.

 

If Yanran's family knew straight up about the kids and MN they would have refused out right .GTY never intended to let Yanran know about the kids and MN until after Marriage. 

 

He still said he would only be with her etc.. yet he even wanted to tease her by going with the Concubine? 

If that's so, like I don't remember that time again, like I said, GTY was a very stupid and smart person in the past but he used it for his own benefits to make sure the one he loves didn't get bullied, somehow his attitude MN speaks a lot that once he lived someone he will do anything, and once he hates them, he will also do anything to ruin them.. So if MN was a good person, this would have been admired by a lot of people, but unfortunately MN is a bad person so they all think he was bewitched by her.. For someone like him, if I understand him well, no matter the era we live in, well unless my heart does not want to, with his words of I will be with you, knowing what he did in his past love life, I will trust his words for his words.. So I think it still boils down to the fact that ML is still not willing to let her heart take charge and GTY is still not enduring enough to allow her heart to take charge, which he knows without any form of resistance from him, her heart wouldn't open.. So like it takes two to tango! It takes two different characters to be in love

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1 hour ago, selen4ever said:

So if the son was dead why did MN still try to go through with the plan ...:huh:

 

And this is what happens to MN after the slap (translation credit: jolie_vie) 

She very much crazy @selen4ever... She lost her mind and is willing to do anything to get money. That is why she asked GTY to be with her for one night. That one night , she can become pregnant again and give birth to another boy. That boy will become the heir and then she will later try to kill him. Since GTY wouldn’t give her the time of the day , she chose to kill him right there  and then. If she was sane , she would have  made a planned to succeed in killing him. 

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2 minutes ago, Suzzy San said:

If that's so, like I don't remember that time again, like I said, GTY was a very stupid and smart person in the past but he used it for his own benefits to make sure the one he loves didn't get bullied, somehow his attitude MN speaks a lot that once he lived someone he will do anything, and once he hates them, he will also do anything to ruin them.. So if MN was a good person, this would have been admired by a lot of people, but unfortunately MN is a bad person so they all think he was bewitched by her.. For someone like him, if I understand him well, no matter the era we live in, well unless my heart does not want to, with his words of I will be with you, knowing what he did in his past love life, I will trust his words for his words.. So I think it still boils down to the fact that ML is still not willing to let her heart take charge and GTY is still not enduring enough to allow her heart to take charge, which he knows without any form of resistance from him, her heart wouldn't open.. So like it takes two to tango! It takes two different characters to be in love

 

Even when her heart open's there will always be doubt and she will always have a back up plan in mind. 

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I remember GTY picked Yanran because she had a good reputation as a kind and sweet girl (not necessarily weak).  He was also sympathetic about her position in her family that is ruled by her mean step-mother and step siblings who bully her (very similar GTY's own and ML's situation).  GTY was upfront about everything to ML, including how he is still actively searching for his son.  If Yanran's family would have considered him and they moved towards marriage, I think he would have been honest about MN and the kids before the actual wedding.

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2 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

Even when her heart open's there will always be doubt and she will always have a back up plan in mind. 

Then she should open it, and have the back up plan, that's still much better than living in anxiety without exerting efforts to lessen it.. ML has to learn that back up plan can always be planned even when you are free at heart, everyone plans, and GTY also needs to learn that, like you said what the Era demands, no matter how free a woman is at heart, they must still plan for the future 

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6 minutes ago, Suzzy San said:

Hmm you are right and wrong, I think the Era excuse is not the excuse at this point, there were a lot of women, at that Era, not in the film, that enjoyed passionate love.. The matters of the heart is the same no matter the era.. So the only excuse that can be used to understand ML is her childhood experience of an unloving father.. Ml"s experience of failed relationships made her heart go into extinct not the Era.. The Era excuse is just like blaming the society MN grew up with made her into evil person, which is not, it's all about the heart and what one wants to do, the society might play some role in defining us but it can never play a role on what the heart decides... So her not trusting that simple word of I will do anything for you, is because of her experience 8of failed promises, not the Era at all

 

4 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

A lot of women did not enjoy passionate love or only one wife it was incredibly rare , its both the era and her past experience's . Shes acting a certain way due to the era not just due to past experience's. 

 

 I'd say its the combination of both. The era defined the relationships between the husband and wife as open. Husbands were free to choose other women to sleep with, outside the house or bring them inside and give them concubine status. Even wife's own family sent women to be taken in as concubine so that their daughter would have the control over them.

In ML's case, she has first hand experience of broken promises and uncaring father....both those things convinced her even more to just take the marriage as a job and keep her heart safe. It may hurt ML to see her husband go to another woman's bed but she has convinced herself that is what GTY would want....coz thats what all men, usually do. Men who didn't take in concubines were very rare....only one in the book was RL's husband and that too ended up causing a head ache for RL as her mother in law was insisting on concubines for her son. RL had to relent and offer her own maids for her husband. 

 

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