[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否？知否？应是绿肥红瘦

[Renaro Kopique]

I dedicate this song to ML.

Spoiler

 

 

[fra8]

22 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

Agreed with you. Ml was attacked left and right. She has too many on her plate right now for her to sit still and analysed her feeling towards gty. If what she did now were not consider as cherishing him, i dunno what else she can do. Did gty expect her to cry and throw jealousy tantrums everytime someone want to gift  concubines to gty to show her love? Or inverstigate every woman that gty had slept with? Or scold him in front if her maids, screaming at him like what danniang did, bawling her eyes like linniang did.. That's not her character. 

What she did is defending his honor everytime someone try to insult him, protecting his home from his stepmother machination even she went ti extra length and outwitted the empress dowager for him. 

I don’t think he wants that. He likes her the way she is. He wants the certainty that whatever she does for him it is because of feelings for him and not because she would the same for anybody.

i find telling when he distinguished between guaren and Erlang.

It’s childish and silly the way he tries but I guess he doesn’t know what to do. And more his feelings get deeper, more he wants to know hers. This is a guy that has never been loved so his need is clear.

[lolalarue]

21 minutes ago, dramaninja said:

I dont get this when she just as blind  as what she is doing to her  husband again I dont get this one sided thing going on.

 

You think what she doing isnt hurtful to him as well?I dont get this really this was no small matters at all.

I do understand where you're coming from, but I see a lot of posters berating ML for her behaviour and saying how much they admire GTY. And I suspect it's because by modern standards GTY is being a romantic hero and Minglan is being backwards. But by the standards of the time the show is set in, Minglan is going above and beyond. None of what GTY promised her (easy life) when he schemed his way to marry her has come true (let's not forget she had very little choice - when he talked to her about marrying him, he wasn't promising love and faithfulness but a marriage of equals). She has given him as much as she can (so far), she's scheming for the team, she cares for him, she takes care of his children, she sticks to the rules of a good wife in their society. I don't blame her for not giving her heart to him because he hasn't asked for it yet. Has he said he loves her? Has he said he won't ever have another woman? She has already explained (and he heard) that loving him and expecting faithfulness is a recipe for an unhappy life. He's never had a conversation with her about it. She's just supposed to work it out and decide its worth the risk? Even when it's not even something he's promised? I honestly don't understand why there's not a lot of sympathy for her here. What man in Minglan's world only has one woman for the rest of their life? She's not thinking about the next month, she's thinking about the next 50 years. If she loves him the way he wants, what happens in 5 years, 10, 15, 20. She has no reason to ever think he wouldn't have another woman. There are literally no powerful men with only one wife. She's worried about her heart, when the inevitable happens - and it could be waaaaay into the future, but it would still kill her (because only we the audience trusts that GTY would be faithful to her forever). 

12 minutes ago, fra8 said:

 

i find telling when he distinguished between guaren and Erlang.

It’s childish and silly the way he tries but I guess he doesn’t know what to do. And more is feelings get deeper, more he wants to know hers. He 

I hate the insistence on Erlang because Maniang kept using it in the coaxing tone that we know is fake (but GTY really wants to be real from Minglan). It just creeps me out. 

[bulubulu]

44 minutes ago, dramaninja said:

I dont get this when she just as blind  as what she is doing to her  husband again I dont get this one sided thing going on.

 

You think what she doing isnt hurtful to him as well?I dont get this really this was no small matters at all.

There's no point in replying no more. People will literally dig up everything from the bottom and make their own theories and twists words and actions to talk about and to try to prove whatever they're trying to prove. 

 

I'm not quoting you now for the below texts, idk how to do that

 

Now we just wait for their fight and for them to come to an understanding of each other and be a happy family. I really like them together and i still hope we can see them being lovely together with Ronger and their baby. I dont want to keep feel like their relationship is failing and i dont want anyone to have this dislike feeling in them. There's always ups and down in a relationship. We supported them and thought they were so adorable when all these haven't happen yet so we should also do the same when they are going in the dark path. We can stop talking badly about them now, both of them have their own reason to be feeling the way they are feeling. Let just support them both and hope for the best of them 

 

 

If people still want to talk bad about one of them just ignore them and let them because stay bothered then.

 

Just because some people hate on GTY doesnt mean we should do the same thing back and hate on ML. Or just because some people hate on ML doesnt mean we should hate on GTY.

[kingpin]

Spoiler

 

“This is heaven’s will, letting two people with hard lives like us become husband and wife. As long as the two of us have the same heart and morality, no matter how hard the storms that will come to us in the future, we can survive it together.”

 

[leeza77]

I don't think anyone of us hate gty or ml. I'm rooting for them. It just a discussion on their character at this point of time. I know things will change and they will have their happiness. It just a friendly discussion where we can state our opinion freely, without insulting others. 

[lolalarue]

Just now, leeza77 said:

I don't think anyone of us hate gty or ml. I'm rooting for them. It just a discussion on their character at this point of time. I know things will change and they will have their happiness. It just a friendly discussion where we can state our opinion freely, without insulting others. 

Agreed. 

 

I also want to say that I don't hate GTY at all. In fact I can't wait for him to convince Minglan to open up. Still I'm not frustrated with Minglan, I think she's doing her best. I understand that it frustrates the audience and GTY but I don't fault her for her actions. 

[m0us3y]

20 minutes ago, fra8 said:

I don’t think he wants that. He likes her the way she is. He wants the certainty that whatever she does for him it is because of feelings for him and not because she would the same for anybody.

i find telling when he distinguished between guaren and Erlang.

It’s childish and silly the way he tries but I guess he doesn’t know what to do. And more his feelings get deeper, more he wants to know hers. This is a guy that has never been loved so his need is clear.

Thank you. My gut feeling is that's the root cause of it too. We'll see. 

After all, he did sorta con her into the marriage, with limited options. 

And as he falls for her deeper, he wants to know what she feels, not merely what she thinks. 

But rather than actually sitting down and have a heart to heart talk, he's been beating around the bush. 

Doesn't help that they have also been on perpetual battles with everyone since the day after they marry. 

Stepmom, 4th aunt, 5th aunt, GTY's brother, servant spies, farm managers, empress dowager, Bai family, crazy Manniang, QH, QH's wife, Aunty Kang, the elder that gifted GTY his new "woman"... ( the list is longer than I thought!)

 

He's capable of getting her to speak her mind, and opening up to him. He's seen the side of her that not many has, he's seen the side of her that no one has. 

Wanting her to be jealous seems like a symptom, not the underlying problem. 

But until he tells her, she's only left to guess...

[dramaninja]

34 minutes ago, fra8 said:

I don’t think he wants that. He likes her the way she is. He wants the certainty that whatever she does for him it is because of feelings for him and not because she would the same for anybody.

i find telling when he distinguished between guaren and Erlang.

It’s childish and silly the way he tries but I guess he doesn’t know what to do. And more his feelings get deeper, more he wants to know hers. This is a guy that has never been loved so his need is clear.

I am surprise he was so willing to love again and so soon too.I guess he seen how really special she was and wasn't going to let her go.

 

He does love with all of his heart thats for sure.

[bulubulu]

3 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

I don't think anyone of us hate gty or ml. I'm rooting for them. It just a discussion on their character at this point of time. I know things will change and they will have their happiness. It just a friendly discussion where we can state our opinion freely, without insulting others. 

Some people here do hate believed it or not. But i mean if they hate then its fine cus i dont expect everyone to have the same liking and i could careless. Mainly come here for spoliers and translations. And im also rooting for them too!

[fra8]

6 minutes ago, lolalarue said:

I do understand where you're coming from, but I see a lot of posters berating ML for her behaviour and saying how much they admire GTY. And I suspect it's because by modern standards GTY is being a romantic hero and Minglan is being backwards. But by the standards of the time the show is set in, Minglan is going above and beyond. None of what GTY promised her (easy life) when he schemed his way to marry her has come true (let's not forget she had very little choice - when he talked to her about marrying him, he wasn't promising love and faithfulness but a marriage of equals). She has given him as much as she can (so far), she's scheming for the team, she cares for him, she takes care of his children, she sticks to the rules of a good wife in their society. I don't blame her for not giving her heart to him because he hasn't asked for it yet. Has he said he loves her? Has he said he won't ever have another woman? She has already explained (and he heard) that loving him and expecting faithfulness is a recipe for an unhappy life. He's never had a conversation with her about it. She's just supposed to work it out and decide its worth the risk? Even when it's not even something he's promised? I honestly don't understand why there's not a lot of sympathy for her here. What man in Minglan's world only has one woman for the rest of their life? She's not thinking about the next month, she's thinking about the next 50 years. If she loves him the way he wants, what happens in 5 years, 10, 15, 20. She has no reason to ever think he wouldn't have another woman. There are literally no powerful men with only one wife. She's worried about her heart, when the inevitable happens - and it could be waaaaay into the future, but it would still kill her (because only we the audience trusts that GTY would be faithful to her forever). 

I hate the insistence on Erlang because Maniang kept using it in the coaxing tone that we know is fake (but GTY really wants to be real from Minglan). It just creeps me out. 

From my pov, he is not a romantic hero.  He tricked her into marriage because he liked her and now he wants all even if he married her knowing she had feelings for another. He makes mistakes because he is, like another chingu said, a bulldozer.

Thing is both are right imo from their perspectives. He knows he won't love another as anybody can know because life is unpredictable but she has no reason to trust him.

 

I agree, he should change i, but I think he meant loving the man, not  the husband, head of the house.

[lolalarue]

4 minutes ago, fra8 said:

From my pov, he is not a romantic hero.  He tricked her into marriage because he liked her and now he wants all even if he married her knowing she had feelings for another. He makes mistakes because he is, like another chingu said, a bulldozer.

Thing is both are right imo from their perspectives. He knows he won't love another as anybody can know because life is unpredictable but she has no reason to trust him.

 

I agree, he should change i, but I think he meant loving the man, not  the husband, head of the house.

I don't think he tricked her though. He maneuvered the situation so that the family was forced to comply (so I see your point), but when he met her at the polo match he said (and I think both of them knew it was sincere) that if she still didn't want to marry him after he talked to her he would accept it. I believe she trusted him enough to belive in his scheming to get her out of the marriage as much as he had the ability to set it up in the first place. 

 

Edited to add: I don't think she did love anyone at that point. They have't made it really obvious but quite a lot of time has gone past between Qi Heng and her. I think he knows that her heart isn't full of someone else. He also knows at that point that it's not full of him. He wants her to love him now, but he won't say it. 

 

 

[m0us3y]

2 minutes ago, lolalarue said:

Agreed. 

 

I also want to say that I don't hate GTY at all. In fact I can't wait for him to convince Minglan to open up. Still I'm not frustrated with Minglan, I think she's doing her best. I understand that it frustrates the audience and GTY but I don't fault her for her actions. 

Nicely said @lolalarue @leeza77

I love GTY. He's just so right for ML in every sense! And vice versa. 

Even granny took a step back because GTY is there to protect ML now, and she's no longer alone. 

 

I'm also actually convinced now that had QH said yes then, he might really go out of his way to let them be together because he admired ML enough to want her be happy. 

 

Of everyone, I feel GTY knows her best. Even if he doesn't feel like it now. 

The things she shared with him. The implicit understanding of each other.

The way he nudged back into her bed at night and hug her to sleep...

The way she hugged him when they found the remains of Chang'er...

Can we just have the happy days now??

 

[Katrina Abdul Talib]

5 hours ago, leeza77 said:

Maybe gty sh learn fr qh. Qh was so confident that ml love him through simple & small gestures like gifting him with ankle pad. The gestures ml did towards her darling two were more magnificent than qh. Thus gty sh be convinced that ml love him. She has me in her heart... La la

Just being married and continously being bogged down with problems brought fwd by GTY's family, relatives, mistress, kids, gifts of concubines and the palace etc.. poor ML's had to spend her days trying to counter or evade these daily abuses... 

 

Its such a heavy burden she had to face and also "think" the right advice to give to GTY not to over react..

 

Not forgetting the "cold" treatment she still gets fm her father n Molan.

 

...wonder if she has the time to even think of being jealous? LOL

 

GTY is the one who should be more considerate by not giving additional stress/pressure by demanding too much from ML.

 

[leeza77]

9 minutes ago, dramaninja said:

I am surprise he was so willing to love again and so soon too.I guess he seen how really special she was and wasn't going to let her go.

 

He does love with all of his heart thats for sure.

What do you meant that he was willing to love again? I don't think that he love manniang. Gty is a chauvinist. He agreed to take manniang as a concubine becoz he pity her. Manniang lied to him that she's alone in this world. Her brother just died and she had to fend herself by singing in the opera troupe. 

He didn't love manniang. He hate manniang for deceiving him. 

[dramaninja]

9 minutes ago, Katrina Abdul Talib said:

Just being married and continously being bogged down with problems brought fwd by GTY's family, relatives, mistress, kids, gifts of concubines and the palace etc.. poor ML's had to spend her days trying to counter or evade these daily abuses... 

 

Its such a heavy burden she had to face and also "think" the right advice to give to GTY not to over react..

 

Not forgetting the "cold" treatment she still gets fm her father n Molan.

 

...wonder if she has the time to even think of being jealous? LOL

 

GTY is the one who should be more considerate by not giving additional stress/pressure by demanding too much from ML.

 

He went going through or went  though just as many things as her.

Right Now? he lost his child that evil woman is back making false claims about him, he got stab by her and also many more new things.

 

Like I said many times why  her feelings are more important than his?He does not get an additional pressure or stress from her actions?

 

Both are guilty of these things they need to have some real talks which they will they obviously care about each other alot.

[leeza77]

5 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

Nicely said @lolalarue @leeza77

I love GTY. He's just so right for ML in every sense! And vice versa. 

Even granny took a step back because GTY is there to protect ML now, and she's no longer alone. 

 

I'm also actually convinced now that had QH said yes then, he might really go out of his way to let them be together because he admired ML enough to want her be happy. 

 

Of everyone, I feel GTY knows her best. Even if he doesn't feel like it now. 

The things she shared with him. The implicit understanding of each other.

The way he nudged back into her bed at night and hug her to sleep...

The way she hugged him when they found the remains of Chang'er...

Can we just have the happy days now??

 

I think this is the pinnacle of their problem that will be solved in the next 2 episodes. After that they will be united as team to solve all their enemies together. One will attack, one will defence. One charge forward, one will strategise behind

[m0us3y]

Just now, leeza77 said:

I think this is the pinnacle of their problem that will be solved in the next 2 episodes. After that they will be united as team to solve all their enemies together. One will attack, one will defence. One charge forward, one will strategise behind

I sure hope so. I have enough heartbreak of seeing them hurt each other, intentional or not. 

And worse, see GTY's stepmom being happy about it...

Otherwise, like another chingu said, I'm ready to poison granny so that we can get the heart to heart talk already!!

 

[leeza77]

3 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

I sure hope so. I have enough heartbreak of seeing them hurt each other, intentional or not. 

And worse, see GTY's stepmom being happy about it...

Otherwise, like another chingu said, I'm ready to poison granny so that we can get the heart to heart talk already!!

 

I hate her too.. Loath her fake soft voice. Her gleeful face when gty's reputation was tarnished. 

[gleek49]

After reading you guys' opinions, there's some points I wanted to make:

 

1. As I've explained before, he wanting her to call him Er Lang HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MANNIANG. His father called him Er Lang, his stepmother calls him Er Lang, his brother calls him Er Lang, his uncles call him Er Lang, Chang Bai calls him Er Lang, it's his NAME, his IDENTITY. He wants her to acknowledge him as himself, not as the general figure she calls Husband. You can't expect him to ditch the name altogether because MN once called him that? If she called him GTY, then does he have to throw the name away, not allow to use it anymore??

 

2. Someone explained above, but his plotting was his way of handing her the power to decide if she wanted to marry him or not. He made sure that her family wouldn't be the one who said no, only she can. And she did. In his proposal, he clearly stated that he had long loved and admired her, he's going to entrusted his whole life and everything he had to her, and she said yes. Is it really unreasonable for him to expect the same from her?

 

3. Both of them aren't dealing with this matter the right way. Him pushing her is impatient and counter productive, her completely ignoring his (true) needs and being uncharacteristically dense are also frustrating. I think we can all agree that this is gonna takes time and fights and honest conversations to get to mutual understanding. It will come, we just have to wait.

 

4. I do believe they both love each other, while he knows it, she probably doesn't or doesn't want to open to the possibility. They really need to communicate, he needs to tell her what he wants (instead of speaking in codes and get angry, because at this point she won't get it until he tells her point blank) and she needs to tell him her fears (instead of only telling her maids, but at the same time telling him that she loves/trusts him when she doesn't actually mean it).

 

5. Honestly, her not trusting him is an insult to his character. He has been telling her over and over again that he will be good to her, that there won't be another woman. It's understandable that her past experiences make it hard for her to trust him, but to him, this is telling that she doesn't think he's better or different than any other men in her life. It's like when you promise someone something, they say they believe you, but in the back of their mind they always wait for you to break that promise, like they don't trust your integrity at all. How is that not hurt?