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[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦


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5 hours ago, bulubulu said:

Just got done watching the most recent ep subbed in viki. Before i say my unpopular opinion i just want to state that i love minglan, of course. Her and gty is such a cute couple, of course. But minglan telling gty to spend the night with MN without having issue with it is just so turn off to me. Ok i get it and i know why shes like this but shes really hurting the people ( in this case mainly or only gty ) around her. How can she just toss gty to mn like that. I wish someone would yell at ml and wake her up that its okay to love someone esp her husband and gty has always been treating ml so well too. And that love with husband and wife does not need to be repay , you love them because you love them. Im just getting disappointed everytime at ml when she does something like this to gty. At this point i just wish the grandma posion thing to happen ( i love ml's granny btw ) or whatever that will happen to make minglan not blind. I wish i could explain what i have in mind more but sadly i am not a A+ essay writer and sadly im so bad at expressing thoughts god damn. I dont expect people to agree with me but i hope they understand or have an idea what im trying to say.

 

4 hours ago, nichiwoohee said:

 

I’ve been feeling that way since the first time she said it was ok for gty to have concubines. What alarming to me was the conversation she had with  her maids, when her maids praised gty, but ml just brushed it off and then her maid danju said something along “arent you describing SH instead?”.  ML projects her father as a husband toward gty. That’s not fair and sad. Right now I want ml to suffer a little for gty sake, but knowing the drama, whatever suffering ML will have, poor gty will suffer twice hard :wacko: the dude cant catch a break

 

After marriage ML has been playing the perfect wife to keep her husband happy and her household peaceful. Everything that Sheng household and Da niang were not. That's what she's seen all her life. So of course thats what she'll compare her household and her husband to.  Lets suppose if Da niang had been nicer to Lin niang then SH wouldn't have been afraid of Lin niang getting abused by his wife....and maybe wouldn't have favored Lin niang above his main wife....which then wouldn't have caused all the mess in that house. 

ML persuading GTY to spend the night with the witch was only for his son, as ML knows he's been looking desperately for his son all these years. So her first thought was for GTY and his son. ...(guessing here...haven't watched the epi yet.)

Another thing both GTY and ML have been hurt by people they trusted. This trust issue is not just from ML side. Even GTY is not being completely honest with her. This from the book and I don't know how much they are going to show in the drama...but Gu cousins getting arrested and punished is all GTY's plan. He also had plans against his uncles and stepmom. GTY got his revenge slowly with full planning but ML only knew afterwards when all of it was done. So she knows he doesn't tell her everything. Even his plan against ED, I don't think he will tell ML about that. 

Basically both GTY and ML will need to work hard to earn the others trust.

Usually when couples fight, their relationship suffers but here, the fight will make their relationship stronger. That's why the fight needs to happen. They will form a truce after a few days of cold war but the real resolution to the fight comes after granny's poisoning....where ML will be fully open about why she wants to play safe in this relationship.

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10 hours ago, deslynn88 said:

 

I'm not sure if they meant for this to be a serious moment but I couldn't help laughing. I can't take him seriously when he does this sort of thing and even ML looked like she was half laughing. :P

Exactly.. I was laughing during that scene because it seems out of place to me or probably ML thought he was just joking or it's another plan.. Let's wait and see. It's a funny scene.. The high and mighty GTY getting drunk and becoming emotional is something I want to see everytime 

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4 hours ago, bulubulu said:

Just got done watching the most recent ep subbed in viki. Before i say my unpopular opinion i just want to state that i love minglan, of course. Her and gty is such a cute couple, of course. But minglan telling gty to spend the night with MN without having issue with it is just so turn off to me. Ok i get it and i know why shes like this but shes really hurting the people ( in this case mainly or only gty ) around her. How can she just toss gty to mn like that. I wish someone would yell at ml and wake her up that its okay to love someone esp her husband and gty has always been treating ml so well too. And that love with husband and wife does not need to be repay , you love them because you love them. Im just getting disappointed everytime at ml when she does something like this to gty. At this point i just wish the grandma posion thing to happen ( i love ml's granny btw ) or whatever that will happen to make minglan not blind. I wish i could explain what i have in mind more but sadly i am not a A+ essay writer and sadly im so bad at expressing thoughts god damn. I dont expect people to agree with me but i hope they understand or have an idea what im trying to say.

This has been the feelings towards ML.. She loves but doesn't want to show, she hates but doesn't want to say.. She has to understand that expression is one the best key to relationships as communication is.. If you don't express your feelings, there is no meaning to it at all.. I am angry but I also pity her, at this young age to have a childhood trauma caused by one's father leading to her devastating cold heart is pitiful and I think that's why GTY tries to understand her too.. But she needs a wake up call noww

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2 hours ago, SunStar said:

ML is listening to her head and not her heart.  She hasn't given GTY her heart yet, in fear of disappointment and being let down like her mom.  She's fulfilling her duty as his wife but hasn't let herself be emotionally attached yet. GTY simply wants ML's heart and for her to be herself around him. That's why he's so freaking happy when she's mad or scolding him. 

 

Sidenote, I cannot express how much I hate his Gu Family! URGH! 

She has actually given him her heart or her heart has chosen him but ML is still stuck in what her head dictates and refuses to show her to GTY.. She must be in pain and confusion too.. This man is so good but why can't I just accept this goodness and love without thinking of what the future holds because somehow this future I think about everyday might lessen my today and then she will be like no I can't a wise person plans ahead no kindness should be given without repayment, everything has an out date, I need to plan for the raining days.. She has a complicated mind 

2 hours ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

 

You basically said what i wanted to say but much simpler and better :3

 

Yeah i know how that feels when i was follow Ever Night and Ashes of Love threads.. wake up to like 10 page's.. 

 

 

 

 

I think this is how we are supposed to feel so i dont think anything you said was wrong , if we did not feel sorry for GTY and did not resent ML a bit for what shes doing then we would not have feeling's. Shes not doing it on purpose though and the one to wake up her will be GTY him self so im looking forward to that. She did not marry him for love but she was been falling in love i can see that quite obviously but she will never fully admit it and let self go in fear of being rejected later on in life. She will love GTY openly later on after the fight but it wont be fully she will still hold back somewhat because back in those time's if you did not think ahead if something does happen you just get left to the dirt. 

 

I dont think anyone really understand's what i say most of the time i post it anyways so just say what you feel no-one is going to hate you or anything. 

 

She clearly care's for him and worry's about him and still would go all out to save him so i think she is actually in love but not showing or knowing what exactly is going on with her. We saw that when he had blood on him and i bet she was sad inside about the MN situation. 

 

 

Exactly shes following her head which is the smart thing to do currently. 

I agree with you.. Her feelings are there but she still tries to maintain her sanity so that the future won't backfire 

25 minutes ago, dito said:

 

 

After marriage ML has been playing the perfect wife to keep her husband happy and her household peaceful. Everything that Sheng household and Da niang were not. That's what she's seen all her life. So of course thats what she'll compare her household and her husband to.  Lets suppose if da niang had been nicer to Lin niang then SH wouldn't have been afraid of Lin niang getting abused by his wife....and maybe wouldn't have favored lin niang above his main wife....which then wouldn't have caused all the mess in that house. 

ML persuading GTY to spend the night with the witch was only for his son, as ML knows he's been looking desperately for his son all these years. So her first thought was for GTY and his son. ...(guessing here...haven't watched the epi yet.)

Another thing both GTY and ML have been hurt by people they trusted. This trust issue is not just from ML side. Even GTY is not being completely honest with her. This from the book and I don't know how much they are going to show in the drama...but Gu cousins getting arrested and punished is all GTY's plan. He also had plans against his uncles and stepmom. GTY got his revenge slowly with full planning but ML only knew afterwards when all of it was done. So she knows he doesn't tell her everything. Even his plan against ED, I don't think he will tell ML about that. 

Basically both GTY and ML will need to work hard to earn the others trust.

Usually when couples fight, their relationship suffers but here, the fight will make their relationship stronger. That's why the fight needs to happen. They will form a truce after a few days of cold war but the real resolution to the fight comes after granny's poisoning....where ML will be fully open about why she wants to play safe in this relationship.

Just waiting for that fight right now.. Nothing else matters 

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4 hours ago, zenya22 said:

Just viewed 49 and GTY and ML are now the Marquis and Marchioness of Ningyi. The mother of GTY was also given a posthumous title as the wife of the late Marquis and was entered into the book of ancestors. But the bold and brazen GTY placed the emperor in a difficult position. He is so used to fighting with his family for what he wants and used to being a warrior using war tactics including some scheming. ML schemes too but only when necessary and does it stealthily. The only one who has an inkling of what she has done is her grandma. GTY is a derring do and inured to what others think of him that he comes out as uncaring. He can also charm his way out of a difficulty if discovered just like he did with the Dowager Empress who could not beat him when she saw his scarred back. However, Yuan Ruo was right when he said that what GTY did has alerted the Dowager Empress of a weakness of the emperor and that weakness is GTY. But this is GTY we are talking about and he may have had that covered too. When he petitioned for his brothers infront of all the attending ministers, the emperor had to grant his petition then stalked out angrily and as everyone was leaving he slowly stood up from his kneeling position and looked up at the Empress Dowager behind the screen. I was thinking what is he doing? Maybe that meant nothing but we shall see. 

 

Maniac Maniang is back. She stabbed GTY and says her son is dead. I don't believe her. She can't be trusted. 

 

 

 

It does seem like GTY downfall is actually planned as we've been guessing. From this its clear GTY made himself the pawn and deliberately brought ED's attention towards himself. ED gets busy in bringing him down thinking emperor will be weakened. In GTY's absence she starts the revolt. While the prince and the emperor put their plan to bring down ED in motion....GTY rides in with his troops gloriously to defeat the ED and her allies.

 

3 hours ago, m0us3y said:

Episode 48-49 shows us the difference between GTY and QH. 

 

GTY treats ML as equal. In fact, he respects her, and has always listened to her, even called her his strategy advisor. 

In all their family meetings, we can see she sits with GTY, as an equal while all other wives stand behind their husbands. 

It's quite cute when GTY openly tell ML that she' the only one who can keep him under control as even the Emperor can't. 

 

QH has always treated his wife as a woman of that generation- second class, to listen and submit.

That women should not meddle in men's business. 

And he walks in front of her.

Arguably, he may not have been like that with ML...maybe. But he clearly subscribes to the ideology of neo-confucianism a lil bit more. 

That everyone has their own place and they should follow that....

 

In the book, when they first came to Gu manor after marriage....and in the family gathering ML was not sure whether to sit or stand like the other wives....GTY gave a little cough and silently indicated the chair next to him for her to sit. After that she always sat next to him in family gatherings.

I miss little gestures like this from the novel which were not adapted to the drama. One other funny scene I wanted to see was GTY messing up the names of ML's maids. DanJu, Xiaotao, Bisi....Xiaotao became tao zi....Bisi became Lixi.....Danju became Jiu xi or something. All the maids were making fun of GTY and couldn't help laughing.

 

About QH, ...wasn't it him who started talking about political matters to his wife first? not sure??

I also felt  he only told his wife that cause she was talking crap about ML.

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57 minutes ago, dito said:

 

 

After marriage ML has been playing the perfect wife to keep her husband happy and her household peaceful. Everything that Sheng household and Da niang were not. That's what she's seen all her life. So of course thats what she'll compare her household and her husband to.  Lets suppose if Da niang had been nicer to Lin niang then SH wouldn't have been afraid of Lin niang getting abused by his wife....and maybe wouldn't have favored Lin niang above his main wife....which then wouldn't have caused all the mess in that house. 

ML persuading GTY to spend the night with the witch was only for his son, as ML knows he's been looking desperately for his son all these years. So her first thought was for GTY and his son. ...(guessing here...haven't watched the epi yet.)

Another thing both GTY and ML have been hurt by people they trusted. This trust issue is not just from ML side. Even GTY is not being completely honest with her. This from the book and I don't know how much they are going to show in the drama...but Gu cousins getting arrested and punished is all GTY's plan. He also had plans against his uncles and stepmom. GTY got his revenge slowly with full planning but ML only knew afterwards when all of it was done. So she knows he doesn't tell her everything. Even his plan against ED, I don't think he will tell ML about that. 

Basically both GTY and ML will need to work hard to earn the others trust.

Usually when couples fight, their relationship suffers but here, the fight will make their relationship stronger. That's why the fight needs to happen. They will form a truce after a few days of cold war but the real resolution to the fight comes after granny's poisoning....where ML will be fully open about why she wants to play safe in this relationship.

i feel that even tho it was for his son, the fact that she was okay to let him or tell him to is just a no to me. But that's different tho, about him not telling his plan to ML is different from ML being okay if he got girls beside her or if he sleeps with other woman...u feel? Even if they both aren't honest, the feels are different..like GTY may not being honest but its a different type of feeling from ML being not honest. Im just saying this or how i felt about this but to me they seem pretty much honest to each other or as of now i feel that. it just that one love another more. 

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4 hours ago, bulubulu said:

I agree with you! I want ml to realized how much gty means to her.  Seems like she'll realize and learn how special gty is to her the hard way. Too heartbreaking :heartbreak:

 

Sometimes i want to feel happy after watching some eps of this drama i think to myself why does it matters its only a drama, they already married in real life hahaha but that thinking dont last long cus i always go back feeling super sad about this situation.

 

Yeah that’s because we all saw gty’s efforts for ml, and want to scream at her to open up her heart already LOL

it’s one of the most satifying reel to real couple, precisely because they are confirmed right before the drama airs, and fsf’s gty eyes basically drip honey everytime looking at minglan. Makes me go is it fsf? Or is it gty? :rolleyes:

 

1 hour ago, dito said:

 

 

After marriage ML has been playing the perfect wife to keep her husband happy and her household peaceful. Everything that Sheng household and Da niang were not. That's what she's seen all her life. So of course thats what she'll compare her household and her husband to.  Lets suppose if Da niang had been nicer to Lin niang then SH wouldn't have been afraid of Lin niang getting abused by his wife....and maybe wouldn't have favored Lin niang above his main wife....which then wouldn't have caused all the mess in that house. 

ML persuading GTY to spend the night with the witch was only for his son, as ML knows he's been looking desperately for his son all these years. So her first thought was for GTY and his son. ...(guessing here...haven't watched the epi yet.)

Another thing both GTY and ML have been hurt by people they trusted. This trust issue is not just from ML side. Even GTY is not being completely honest with her. This from the book and I don't know how much they are going to show in the drama...but Gu cousins getting arrested and punished is all GTY's plan. He also had plans against his uncles and stepmom. GTY got his revenge slowly with full planning but ML only knew afterwards when all of it was done. So she knows he doesn't tell her everything. Even his plan against ED, I don't think he will tell ML about that. 

Basically both GTY and ML will need to work hard to earn the others trust.

Usually when couples fight, their relationship suffers but here, the fight will make their relationship stronger. That's why the fight needs to happen. They will form a truce after a few days of cold war but the real resolution to the fight comes after granny's poisoning....where ML will be fully open about why she wants to play safe in this relationship.

 

That’s the thing, ML act like a virtous wife so blatantly in front of gty, she doesnt bother to pretend that she has feeling for her husband at all, maybe because she assumes gty also acting that way to her. Hence gty always ask why wont she believes him (that his feeling is real). From seeing how CL acted in front of SH, she knows what act to infatuate one’s husband. But she doesnt even bother to. Another thing is this is gty, qh would probably be touched by ml’s virtous act, but gty wants her sincerity, he doesnt care about virtuosity, he has say that repeatedly, he doesnt care what other people think or say, as long as you are happy, it’s fine.

But ML cant see that yet, she’s still bounded by her past familial relationship and grandma’s teaching on how to treat one’s husband 

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22 minutes ago, bulubulu said:

i feel that even tho it was for his son, the fact that she was okay to let him or tell him to is just a no to me. But that's different tho, about him not telling his plan to ML is different from ML being okay if he got girls beside her or if he sleeps with other woman...u feel? Even if they both aren't honest, the feels are different..like GTY may not being honest but its a different type of feeling from ML being not honest. Im just saying this or how i felt about this but to me they seem pretty much honest to each other or as of now i feel that. it just that one love another more. 

 

Thats why I said she's playing the role of a perfect wife.... doing everything that a main wife is supposed to do. For in those days, a husband will always take in a concubine..sooner or later. And a main wife has to accept it or make life hell for everyone. If ML has to accept her husband sleeping with other women why not give her acceptance early on. 

With people throwing concubines at him from left and right....how can ML be sure he won't cave in and accept a few. So instead of getting mad and jealous she herself gives him her approval. You see it all comes back to her not trusting his words and promises. 

GTY may hide stuff from her for his own reasons.....because its dangerous or political ....but to ML it still seems he doesn't trust her.

 

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41 minutes ago, nichiwoohee said:

 

Yeah that’s because we all saw gty’s efforts for ml, and want to scream at her to open up her heart already LOL

it’s one of the most satifying reel to real couple, precisely because they are confirmed right before the drama airs, and fsf’s gty eyes basically drip honey everytime looking at minglan. Makes me go is it fsf? Or is it gty? :rolleyes:

 

That’s the thing, ML act like a virtous wife so blatantly in front of gty, she doesnt bother to pretend that she has feeling for her husband at all, maybe because she assumes gty also acting that way to her. Hence gty always ask why wont she believes him (that his feeling is real). From seeing how CL acted in front of SH, she knows what act to infatuate one’s husband. But she doesnt even bother to. Another thing is this is gty, qh would probably be touched by ml’s virtous act, but gty wants her sincerity, he doesnt care about virtuosity, he has say that repeatedly, he doesnt care what other people think or say, as long as you are happy, it’s fine.

But ML cant see that yet, she’s still bounded by her past familial relationship and grandma’s teaching on how to treat one’s husband 

 

This just made me remember something from the book. After the fight GTY starts sleeping in the study....the cold war starts. ML doesn't know how to resolve this. One of the things she thinks of trying is going to the study and acting like Lin niang... all loving and clingy and telling him.. of course she loves him ....to calm him down. But then she realized GTY already knows everything about her so he's not going to believe the act and will probably throw her out of the study.

Then she berates herself for getting too comfortable and careless. She should have cared more for his feelings instead of guarding hers.

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15 minutes ago, dito said:

 

Thats why I said she's playing the role of a perfect wife.... doing everything that a main wife is supposed to do. For in those days, a husband will always take in a concubine..sooner or later. And a main wife has to accept it or make life hell for everyone. If ML has to accept her husband sleeping with other women why not give her acceptance early on. 

With people throwing concubines at him from left and right....how can ML be sure he won't cave in and accept a few. So instead of getting mad and jealous she herself gives him her approval. You see it all comes back to her not trusting his words and promises. 

GTY may hide stuff from her for his own reasons.....because its dangerous or political ....but to ML it still seems he doesn't trust her.

 

Gty say many times that he wont take concubines in. Its not like gty will sleep with other girls anyways since his feelings to ml are true but ml is already fine with it. Gty done and show how much he cared for ml, ml seems quite clueless on that

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What i don't understand is mn's motives in giving the condition that gty to spend one night with her. Did she really thinked that her prowess was so great that gty will be hooked and crazy in lust with her and installed as a concubine, later?.. Or she just wanted to kill gty (she brought a knife with her). If so, the stepmom and the bai family were really desperate (they were in cohort with mn). 

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1 hour ago, bulubulu said:

Gty say many times that he wont take concubines in. Its not like gty will sleep with other girls anyways since his feelings to ml are true but ml is already fine with it. Gty done and show how much he cared for ml, ml seems quite clueless on that

 

Dr. He said the same thing but caved to maternal pressure in only a few days. This is an era where you could not always say no to gifts like servants and concubines depending on the giver and circumstances. ML's own mother was a gifted concubine from the Wang family. 

 

ML knows that he might have to take concubines into the household in the future simply because they can't escape it and his heart might be moved by another woman in the future.

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, mooose said:

 

Dr. He said the same thing but caved to maternal pressure in only a few days. This is an era where you could not always say no to gifts like servants and concubines depending on the giver and circumstances. ML's own mother was a gifted concubine from the Wang family. 

 

ML knows that he might have to take concubines into the household in the future simply because they can't escape it and his heart might be moved by another woman in the future.

 

 

 

I agree; she just accept that without asking her heart. she don't want to li_e to her self; she is a women in this area who shoulld accept the rules.

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1 hour ago, mooose said:

 

Dr. He said the same thing but caved to maternal pressure in only a few days. This is an era where you could not always say no to gifts like servants and concubines depending on the giver and circumstances. ML's own mother was a gifted concubine from the Wang family. 

 

ML knows that he might have to take concubines into the household in the future simply because they can't escape it and his heart might be moved by another woman in the future.

 

 

 

 

Exactly. If the giver is a person important enough..like a relative or an elder...Empress dowager or the emperor gives GTY some as a bestowal...GTY will have to accept.

Kang aunt used devious means to get concubines in GTY's house. If I remember correctly she offered them to Stepmom....who accepted them on GTY's behalf. If GTY or ML refuse them...there will be more nasty rumors spreading around about ML and her bad attitude with her inlaws.  

Easiest way to handle these concubines is to accept them and then dispose of them by gifting them to others or getting them married off. But they can only do that based on the circumstances of the concubine and the person who gifted them. Then there are those who are sent specifically to make trouble for the main wife....like Hongxiao and another one coming soon...as we see in one of the previews, a woman (I presume a gifted concubine) trying to kill herself in front of ML...

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3 hours ago, dito said:

In the book, when they first came to Gu manor after marriage....and in the family gathering ML was not sure whether to sit or stand like the other wives....GTY gave a little cough and silently indicated the chair next to him for her to sit. After that she always sat next to him in family gatherings.

I miss little gestures like this from the novel which were not adapted to the drama. One other funny scene I wanted to see was GTY messing up the names of ML's maids. DanJu, Xiaotao, Bisi....Xiaotao became tao zi....Bisi became Lixi.....Danju became Jiu xi or something. All the maids were making fun of GTY and couldn't help laughing.

 

In episode 48, ML curtseyed when Big Brother entered the room, then she hesitated over whether to sit or stand by her husband's side like other wives did. GTY indicated with a look that she should sit.

 

Haha, ML's maids names are related to fruits, with a tad elegant feel. GTY simplifies them by using names in their litereary sense. So Xiaotao becomes Peach, Danju Orange, etc. That's a funny detail to show GTY's no nonsense style and also his lacking in literature (novel GTY is not as literate as drama version). 

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2 hours ago, leeza77 said:

What i don't understand is mn's motives in giving the condition that gty to spend one night with her. Did she really thinked that her prowess was so great that gty will be hooked and crazy in lust with her and installed as a concubine, later?.. Or she just wanted to kill gty (she brought a knife with her). If so, the stepmom and the bai family were really desperate (they were in cohort with mn). 

Woman like MN @leeza77 think highly of themselves. Sometimes they do succeed in fooling the same man twice but it all depends on the man to choose to give them that chance. 

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EPISODE 46: 

QH wife is indeed a petty, self righteous, stuck up person. It’s clear to me when she brought up ML past relations with Dr He she had ill intent. Basically saying that ML is a gold digger able to seduce man well (crouching tiger, hidden dragon). She’s using all these reasonings to why she can’t put in a good word for the Gu sons to her husband when it’s really that she doesn’t want QH to have any relation to GU household whatsoever because of ML. She claims how fearful/destructive gossiping is yet she is doing the same. Now the aunt will use that information she gotten to spite GTY for not helping them. Not only aunt but QH wife is pleased to give away a “weakness” about ML past. QH wife clearly knows what she is doing...

She tells her maid to shut up and not mention ML again because it will tarnish their reputation? Because she can’t take that her husband was involved with a lowly concubine daughter? Or that she doesn’t want rumors to spread that QH wife is jealous of his past or the rumors instigated by her? Though she asked for these informations, but she just getting angrier by the minute upon hearing how deep QH love is for ML. 

 

Sure, she has the right to feel jealousy at some point but she is jealous of a past. Sure, QH May still have ML in his heart and she feels it is the reason QH is treating her like a stranger. But, if she didn’t dig up his past in the first place she would’ve spared herself from more pain. Perhaps she could’ve thought of ways to slowly gain his trust (which she doesn’t even have for him) and affections. Or perhaps if she had a different attitude and opened up to QH about ML and maybe tell him that she understands and she’ll patiently wait for him, perhaps QH might open up and see her in a different light. He might even feel guilty and try harder for her.

Instead she is slowly harboring a growing hatred towards another man’s wife.

Some of the things that takes time are earning someone’s trust, forgetting a painful past, healing a broken heart, and giving your heart away. She wants all of these from QH right away without any consideration towards him. 

ML is in a similar situation, GTY also has his past love though he does not love MN anymore he still had two kids with her. IMO that’s even worst situation than QH wife. Now she will have to deal with crazy MN as well. 

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