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[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦


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1 hour ago, leeza77 said:

Ml has yet to trust gty fully. Still thinks that is the lord and she is not in equal footing with him. Gty heard her say so to xiatao. Feel frustrated. This is the seed if doubt the plant the discord in their relationship. Qh is only the trigger. Not the real reason. 

 

Oh man that has got to hurt him. Hearing ML say that his loving and caring might fade away as years pass. And so she won't allow herself to depend on him. Coz a wife always depending on her husband can become a burden for the husband. So ML does not expect any more from him. Expecting more will only lead to disappointment. And disappointment will turn into resentment and hatred with time.

I hope GTY realizes how much work he has to put in to earn her trust. Atleast overhearing all this, he will get an idea of how much damage has been done to ML's heart and mind by the men she trusted in her life. Her father being the biggest culprit, I think. Her mother lived and died unjustly.....and she saw her father do nothing and just carry on with life. 

I think there were some words in the trailer saying something about this. I don't know who says them...."In this life you can't depend on anyone.....Not your father, your brother, your husband or your son. Only person you can depend on is you, yourself".  

 

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QH should realize the entire blame for bringing ML and GTY together lies on his own head. Who told him to pray for a good husband for ML at the Youqing Monastery? Thats why they say.... be c

adorable couple ============  

Aunti Kang short biography:   Back then when Aunti Kang and Wang Daniang were still single. For various reasons, Daniang was brought up by their grandparents while Aunti Kang grew up with th

3 hours ago, linhlinh111 said:

I think ML doesn't hate her father, bc he, after all, is her father who provided for her and raised her. He was biased but he fulfilled his responsibility as a father and he never tried to harm nor use her. She just doesn't like him nor care about him. She enacted a revenge plan with 2 main targets: 1. Linniang's downfall for murdering her mother. 2. Molan cuz she hit her and ML didn't want to marry Liang's son. For achieving this goal she risked the whole Sheng family's reputation and her own future. Sheng Hong was just a collateral damage, she didn't intentionally aim at him as a target, but she didn't try to protect him either cuz she didn't care.

 

SH is a selfish man, all he cares about is himself. He favoured Linniang wasn't all bc he loved her, but bc he was a shu son himself and was treated badly when he was a child. Besides, Linniang knew how to please a man while Daniang was proud and stubborn. SH doesn't truly love anyone, he only did what's best for his own interest (including the matter with ML's mother), so when Linniang started touching his benefit he let her go. He was enraged cuz all this time he thought Linniang loved him while in fact she was after his money and status, thus making him feel like a fool, hurting his man ego. Linniang was definitely not what mattered to him most (actually she didn't even matter that much) and if ML had accused him of her mother's death then his punishment wouldn't be that light. She just used SH to achieve her goal while teaching him a small lesson, that's all. 

 

I think the best word to describe ML's feeling towards her father is apathetic.

Well said. 

I don’t think that he only cared about himself... He is the head of the Sheng Family. He has a big responsibility in carrying the name and reputation of the Sheng household. He must put the families name first and foremost... He doesn’t make all decisions himself either. Every big decision he always consults granny. He never follows through a plan if granny doesn’t approve... Most importantly he is a clean minister. That alone already shows that he is an upright man and not greedy. Otherwise he would use his kids like pawns to gain personal merits to achieve higher position in the palace. If he falls the whole family will fall, if anyone in the family shames their name it’s not just him that is affected it is all the family. A great example of someone who is selfish and greedy is Molan and her mother. 

 

I agree that she doesn’t hate her father. Hate is a strong word and I just don’t believe she loathes him enough. After all if she did she wouldn’t feel a bit disappointed during the time Momo Kang was at their house and SH told ML to inform him if she suffers from unfairness again, but only to be swept off immediately after the commotion with Big Madam and Concubine Lin. ML being apathetic towards her father is not caused by hate but overtime being let down and trying to survive the manor she had grown accustomed to not hope for SH’s attention/affection. As long as she can live safely and well is all she wants.  

 

I love the part, athough ML denies it, GTY discribed her true feelings in the Sheng Household really well. She is aggrieved. 

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2 minutes ago, dito said:

 

Oh man that has got to hurt him. Hearing ML say that his loving and caring might fade away as years pass. And so she won't allow herself to depend on him. Coz a wife always depending on her husband can become a burden for the husband. So ML does not expect any more from him. Expecting more will only lead to disappointment. And disappointment will turn into resentment and hatred with time.

I hope GTY realizes how much work he has to put in to earn her trust. Atleast overhearing all this, he will get an idea of how much damage has been done to ML's heart and mind by the men she trusted in her life. Her father being the biggest culprit, I think. Her mother lived and died unjustly.....and she saw her father do nothing and just carry on with life. 

I think there were some words in the trailer saying something about this. I don't know who says them...."In this life you can't depend on anyone.....Not your father, your brother, your husband or your son. Only person you can depend on is you, yourself".  

So sad.. ML's childhood trauma on unloving husband affects her a lot than she knows.. To ML, it's just the way of life but truly we know she is still affected by what happened in her life and she is a little bit scared.. I hope GTY makes her realize a love that seeks nothing in return.. 

 

But then I might stop watching till ep 50 after I know what QH has done, because I will be too disappointed waiting for how he gets paid for any evil he might be planning.. ML suspecting him shows she is someone that doesn't really trust anybody as her grandmother have thought her that people changes overtime.. And GTY thinking it might not be true shows he is still too soft about humanfolks.. And ML is more about reality than him.. To GTY, QH is someone that is too pure to think about revenge or anything bad but to ML, he is also a human that can do anything bad anytime to gain things for himself.. She is the one that truly knows what life is.. And I think the only one that can actually catch GTY off guard is QH because he definitely doesn't see him as bad and doesn't guard against him.. ML let the work begin.. So maybe after ep 43,.i will wait for ep 50 to catch up. But I will still come here for written updates 

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13 minutes ago, cherubstomato said:

Well said. 

I don’t think that he only cared about himself... He is the head of the Sheng Family. He has a big responsibility in carrying the name and reputation of the Sheng household. He must put the families name first and foremost... He doesn’t make all decisions himself either. Every big decision he always consults granny. He never follows through a plan if granny doesn’t approve... Most importantly he is a clean minister. That alone already shows that he is an upright man and not greedy. Otherwise he would use his kids like pawns to gain personal merits to achieve higher position in the palace. If he falls the whole family will fall, if anyone in the family shames their name it’s not just him that is affected it is all the family. A great example of someone who is selfish and greedy is Molan and her mother. 

 

I agree that she doesn’t hate her father. Hate is a strong word and I just don’t believe she loathes him enough. After all if she did she wouldn’t feel a bit disappointed during the time Momo Kang was at their house and SH told ML to inform him if she suffers from unfairness again, but only to be swept off immediately after the commotion with Big Madam and Concubine Lin. ML being apathetic towards her father is not caused by hate but overtime being let down and trying to survive the manor she had grown accustomed to not hope for SH’s attention/affection. As long as she can live safely and well is all she wants.  

 

I love the part, athough ML denies it, GTY discribed her true feelings in the Sheng Household really well. She is aggrieved. 

 

SH and upright in the same sentence.. ima totally disagree hes a upright man in terms of government and being a minster but as a father and husband he is a horrible man. He suggested to use ML over and over again.. 

 

I wish QH was just cut out of the drama when GTY and ML got married his scene's just anger me now. 

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2 hours ago, mooose said:

1. Wanting to be the main wife of a guy from a noble house in line for a title with her status. Even if he loved her to bits, the dude would have been disowned and forget about a career of any kind.  Messing with his marriage proposals and his family, she doesnt realise the harm she causes him and by extesion herself (the Gus' had resolved to kill her and the kids at some point). Smart would have been taking concubine status and milking it like Lin.

 

2. She found his property deeds, knew he was rich and still pawned them cos he was not gonna find out?

 

3. Ran off with his son denying the son status, education and entry into genealogy records. So the son has absolutely no legal claim. GTY never asked the question (bless him) 'are they really my children?' after the so called brother was alive, but it must have crossed his mind and he wouldn't be in a rush to leave anything for this son. She twisted the knife emotionally but for financial gain, it was always a losing strategy. 

Well said, Manniang is stupid or ignorant of the ways of their world of their time. She thought that she can use emotional blackmail and now relationship son/father blackmail. She destroyed her son basically. It was all her greed and never realized the jewel she had in her hands that is why she lost it. Yep, stupid and ignorant. 

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7 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

SH and upright in the same sentence.. ima totally disagree hes a upright man in terms of government and being a minster but as a father and husband he is a horrible man. He suggested to use ML over and over again.. 

 

 

He is absolutely not perfect. But he is honest and does the best he can as a husband and father. With a big responsibility on his shoulders and a big household, he can’t please everyone. Although he had brought forth the idea of using ML before in two occasions, mind you not his idea he is just a messenger, he has always consulted with granny for the final say. And he has never followed through it if granny disapproves. That is the most important. 

Him not doting on ML is what she wanted anyways otherwise having a granny and a father that dotes on her both. Well, you already know.

 

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I am not sure she didn’t want her father care because at a certain point she said “the time I wanted a father are long gone” or smthg and then she expected more after CL’s reveal. When she was a child she craved for him.

I guess she learned not to expect anything or care about his affection. But this has influenced her perspective as we can see. She didn’t trust gty or his affection completely.

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2 hours ago, Lunkera said:

@leeza77

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Yeah, i meant QH. Also him sowing discord in GTY and ML marriage by approaching her according to the trailers for the drama before it started. But it will just make ML realize what a disappointment he actually is and regret falling in love with him and bring ML & GTY closer.

 

Spoiler

People will say QH's actions are out of character but based on the drama his character is totally in character. He never listens or thinks about anything and hes immature its not surprising he turns vengeful. I said this pages back this is where i think QH's character will go.

 

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20 minutes ago, cherubstomato said:

 

 

He is absolutely not perfect. But he is honest and does the best he can as a husband and father. With a big responsibility on his shoulders and a big household, he can’t please everyone. Although he had brought forth the idea of using ML before in two occasions, mind you not his idea he is just a messenger, he has always consulted with granny for the final say. And he has never followed through it if granny disapproves. That is the most important. 

Him not doting on ML is what she wanted anyways otherwise having a granny and a father that dotes on her both. Well, you already know.

 

 

Lets agree to disagree i find him weak and pathetic and he never cared about ML at all. I dont think he did the best he could as husband towards big madam where he mistreated her for year's in favour of concubines and he just straight up never cared for ML. I think ML did want a father he was just not a father toward's her so she learnt to deal with it and made the gap bigger. Someone who cares about the reputation over his own children is just not a good man, the fact he brought up ML twice shows it if the grandma agree's then he just gives ML away like shes nothing.

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1 hour ago, dito said:

 

Oh man that has got to hurt him. Hearing ML say that his loving and caring might fade away as years pass. And so she won't allow herself to depend on him. Coz a wife always depending on her husband can become a burden for the husband. So ML does not expect any more from him. Expecting more will only lead to disappointment. And disappointment will turn into resentment and hatred with time.

I hope GTY realizes how much work he has to put in to earn her trust. Atleast overhearing all this, he will get an idea of how much damage has been done to ML's heart and mind by the men she trusted in her life. Her father being the biggest culprit, I think. Her mother lived and died unjustly.....and she saw her father do nothing and just carry on with life. 

I think there were some words in the trailer saying something about this. I don't know who says them...."In this life you can't depend on anyone.....Not your father, your brother, your husband or your son. Only person you can depend on is you, yourself".  

 

Don't forget that she grew up seeing how the male in her family treated the women.  One minute, you are lucky to have your husband paying you attention and then poof, that could all disappear.  She has experienced this with her mum where her father rarely ever comes to visit until she has to find ways and waited for him after the visit to grandma to get him to come for dinner.  Fo rher, men are unpredictable, you have to depend on your own self.  I supposed it explains why she is the way she is.  She is distrustful and her trust needs to be earned.  GTY will need to earn it. That's the challenge of marriage life even today.  This is why I like this drama because it potrays the ups and downs not just all sweet and roses.

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4 hours ago, leeza77 said:

@leeza77 WHo is that woman in the carriage with Minglan?  She looks like a nice person.

Seems like Minglan is facing many challenges what with more women being fobbed into her household.....Poor Minglan, I hope she persevere and stand firm and trust her man (GTY). 

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Sheng Hong has his flaws, but he's not the most horrible person. I understand why the audience must have resented him throughout the course of the drama, but in the drama we've only ever seen him dealing with matters in the household. And that's only one side of him. Novel Minglan has stated a few times that he may not be the most loving father, but he does fullfill his responsibilities as a father during those period. Up until CB started his officialdom, SH had been the sole breadwinner of the family and he makes sure that his family is well-fed and can live comfortably. Working as a court official is not easy, you have to balance your relationships, make sure that your reputation is clean, steer clear from faction fighting, but also try not to offend anyone above you and somehow still manages to get promoted. It's not clear in the drama, but in the book, it was said that after the rebellions, almost all noble families in the capital was more or less hurt, like lost their power and sometimes, their lives. Sheng house was one of a few families came out of the mess unscathed. Sheng house might be a mess, but because SH fullfills his duties well enough, at least they're a well-protected, well-off mess. Old madam has said a couple of times that he has always been wise and sensible when doing his job (but so terrible when dealing with his family). I'm not saying he's a good father, but it doesn't mean that he doesn't try.

 

And it's true that SH would never use his children for his own gain, all of the marriages he decided for his children, has been carefully calculated for THEIR best interest(s). Hualan: he chose her husband based on the guy's good qualities, his knowledge that the Count is a nice man and the fact that it's a Count family, so he thought Hualan wouldn't have to worry about money living there. The Count family had also been struggling for a while, they wouldn't be any help to him with his career, so you can say that this marriage he chose for Hualan was completely for her. Of course, with his streak of being oblivious with evil woman, he couldn't see that her MIL was evil. Changbai (I don't remember if it was granny or SH's choice in the drama, but in the book, it was SH's): he chose Hai Shi, who is from a "studious" household, so again, almost no help to his career, but the girl is well-educated and virtuous, and she has been proven to be an excellent choice. Molan: Scholar Wen, although poor, is a nice man with bright future. Since he's poor, Molan's status wouldn't be looked down upon and the family could protected her due to their higher status (too bad Molan won't ever understand how much he doted on her). And he's NEVER approved of any of his daughters marrying in to Qi family.

 

Also, remember when the coup happened and SH's didn't think twice to let his daughter escape first? He even respectfully bowed to the eunuch and said something along the line of "please take care of my daughter". I know she's the only girl there and letting her escape first may be was just common sense, but as I watched the scene, I believe that he does love her and when push comes to shove, he will protect her. Then at her wedding, both SH and Wang Shi teared up sending Minglan away. Small detail but it makes me believe that they may not love her the most, but they do care, enough to get emotional at her wedding. (I don't get why people think Wang Shi is angry at Minglan, There's no indication that she resent ML ever, she looked genuinely happy when ML greeted her and thanked her when she visited Sheng house 3 days after the wedding, didn't think anything ill of her until her witch sister whispered in her ears? I think to Wang Shi, Minglan is like a neighbor's daughter, she watches her grow up, likes her well enough, but gets jealous when she has better things than her kids, she'll always choose her kids over ML, but if there's no conflict, she will treat ML well).

 

Regarding ML's feeling to her father, I don't think that she hates him, more like she's been living in constant disappointment that she's numb and expects almost nothing from her father. Right now, I think she's still unconsciously craving some sort of affection from him. Like when she came home 3 days after the wedding, when she saw SH, her face literally lighted up and she smiled widely when she greeted her father. After being scolded for coming back home with too much fanfare, she was so upset that her husband noticed. I don't think she would be that upset if she hates him or doesn't care about him. Unfortunately, the biggest disappointment still has yet to come, alas the poisoning case. I hope the drama fixes it somehow, I don't want to see the relationship being completely destroyed.

Edited by gleek49
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36 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:
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People will say QH's actions are out of character but based on the drama his character is totally in character. He never listens or thinks about anything and hes immature its not surprising he turns vengeful. I said this pages back this is where i think QH's character will go.

 

You are so right.. He doesn't think, he doesn't consider, he only wants what he wants.. So I think he is still in character too. He is just being QH.. 

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18 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

Lets agree to disagree

That goes without saying... :) 

 

 

And Big Madam is not a perfect wife and mother either. :lol:

 

Its called give and take. CW didn’t want attention from her husband only enough for them to survive but not enough so that they will be targeted by the jealous rats. ML was a child needing love and attention from her father but mostly she wanted him to be there for her pregnant mother. She didn’t listen to her mom and caused attention. Naturally the father took noticed and he saw the state they were living in. And he was furious and severely punished the maids for not doing their job and gave Big Madam back the power in the household. 

When CW died it’s so easy to point fingers at SH for not caring because he has the authority to diliver punishment and granny took a step back and watch. There was no evidence to prove that CL had the intention of murdering CW. How can he punished her by death or banishment? He punished those involved for negligence and CL has fallen favor for a while as well until her stunt at the ship. The thing that shocked me most but also took in consideration is that granny and her trusted maid most likely/possibly knew that CL was involved in the death of CW. Yet they never seeked justice/evidence for ML mother. Just like SH, granny cares about their reputation and harmony/well being of the family first and foremost as well. They all have a role and duty. That’s why they put importance in hierarchy or else it’ll be more crazy in the harem and household.

 

Like I said he is just a messenger and he presented the idea given to him as he has the authority to speak yet he cant come up with the best plans. Thus, he comes to granny for advice all the time and not just about ML but in the household and his career as well.

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I think one of the biggest blessing in disguised for ML during her path for revenge was SH disagreeing to hold a ceremony of some sort to help send off/appease the spirit of her mother. If her plan had followed through CL would’ve been on high alert. Instead of planning to trap 6th Liang son, her plans would be how to kill off ML. Of course being smart as ML is eventually it would come to light what happened back then. And that would’ve been the talk of the town. The one scathed would be her and CL. And not Molan and her mother. 

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1 hour ago, frenchfan said:

@leeza77 WHo is that woman in the carriage with Minglan?  She looks like a nice person.

Seems like Minglan is facing many challenges what with more women being fobbed into her household.....Poor Minglan, I hope she persevere and stand firm and trust her man (GTY). 

 

Younger sister of empress Shen. She visited Minglan’s house with her brother (国舅,general Shen, the one who was upset that he was decreed to marry Duke Ying’s daughter not too long after his wife passed away in rebellion) and fished together in today epi (DVD epi 44).

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7 hours ago, leeza77 said:
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From the trailer, qh has actually changed. He became vengeful and secretly take a shot to gty's family member, disguising as doing his duty as an officer. Gty didn't believe it, but ml suspects it. 

 

@fra8

 

Spoiler

In the novel, the sons of 4th and 5th uncles supported/ involved in 4th prince (Yan Wang) rebellion. They arranged for him to get women (I believe) so that he can bribe those generals who helped him in rebellion. In the trailer, both GTY and ML didn’t think QH was taking vengeance on Gu family. GTY even said that QH is righteous man who won’t abuse his authority to revenge and pressure others. ML just asked whether what his cousins did will implicate GTY. Actually, helping those cousins release from punishment was the reason GTY being able to ask those 4th and 5th branch families leave from Hou Fu and his oldest brother not adopting third brother’s son in the book, leaving Marquis title to GTY.

 

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These recent episodes have been so full of honey that I am just afraid of the bitter kola coming... But I really am looking forward to how thoe6storms will come and how they will show people the power couple they are.. GTY and ML can never be defeated like that, even though they didn't think QH can do that, they will still win at last.. A failure brings a grand success when one is determined 

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I just finished seeing episode 41 with subs & I can see how GTY can become insecure. She told him that if in the future he takes in concubines she will live with them in harmony as long as they are good people. You can see the disappointment on his face. In the TV version episode 44 he overheard her telling her maids that she won’t expect any more from him & his facial expression then was the same. I don’t blame ML for saying this & for guarding herself but all of this is going to make him more insecure

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  • Jillia changed the title to [Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦

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