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[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦


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3 minutes ago, fra8 said:

 

I have a soft spot for GTY, but in the book I  didn't agree with what he did all the time and even with what ML did.

I think they love each other , but they are vulnerable because of what they went through.  GTY was never loved, ML had her granny but she lost her mom, her father didn't care.  GTY schemed to marry her, but he knew QH was her first choice. He said he wasn't worried but who knows deep down. And ML said it already, she was scared that she could lose her good life/her happiness. I don't think at all it's going to be lack of love, but it could be fear or lack of trust, lack of communication. They need to learn how to love and how to trust,.

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Since it's likely they keep the fire accident, ML could feel hurt by his reaction. Maybe she won't say anything, but she might change her behaviour. Only in the end and after they made up, she found out he did it to protect himself and them. 

And maybe her change of behaviour with her meeting QH, it's going to spark his insecurities.

I doubt they are going to make gTY or ML look bad, I hope they keep their consistency. I have doubts about QH.

 

I think you’re right

Spoiler

It could be after the childbirth, the trailers are so jumpy.. It muddled the timeline a bit

 

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2 hours ago, Suzzy San said:

Hmmm interesting but judging from how GTY's feelings was portrayed in the drama, and they still go with the plot of banishing manniang after that, I thi k it's not because GTY doesn't love ming lan enough but it's because somehow this man that is so manipulative is still somehow softhearted towards manniang even though he doesn't love anyone but Ming lan.. I think GTY being angre at ming lan for not trusting him enough is just a childish argument because he felt that Ming lan doesn't really tell him everything she feels. And he just want to be the one she turns to at every corner for help, arguments and comfort.. He just wants to her upmost priority.. Very childish their love is.. And even though ming lan is also in love with him, she still wants to prepare for the bad days if he turns against her one day and that's why she doesn't want to invest in much emotional banter with GTY so that she won't be so disappointed if he betrays her, which won't happen. So I think they are just being childish and they also want to have some lover's spat since they have been too harmonized lately... Couples must have some childish and unreasonable fights to strengthen the relationship. Hahahahaj

 

1 hour ago, Lunkera said:

banishing MN might also be for his children sake. From the spoilers i've heard, it seems like GTY cares about his children alot more in the drama? correct me if i'm wrong please.

Yes, in the novel spoilers, banishing Maniang instead of something harsher like death was not because of any remaining feelings for her but for the sake of their kids. I think because he didn’t them to have resentment towards him or ML. In the novel, the son was pretty much like elder Gu bro, brainwashed by Maniang to hate ML. 

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1 hour ago, gleek49 said:

 

The Cao family was released from exile because of the new emperor ascended the throne. Sooner or later, they WILL come back to the capital to ask for He family's help and try to guilt He Hongwen into accepting the cousin. GTY only asked Shitou to help them get back to the capital faster than they would have if they travel by themselves. It's better for Minglan to be aware of the problem before she marry into He household, if the Cao family comes back to the capital after the wedding, Minglan won't be able to get away by then and she'll have to deal with that Cao cousin for a long time. In the novel, it did mention that He Hongwen's main wife had a hard time dealing with the clinging Cao family long after she married into He family. Minglan dodged a bullet there.

well...if you listen to GTY and ML's conversation in TV epi 40, GTY admitted he paid for Cao cousin's freedom from being a concubine of a military official in the city where she was exiled. Then, he asked someone to suggest Cao family to go to capital instead of their original plan of returning to their hometown. Cao cousin was already married to this official as concubine, her parents were not capable to buy her freedom and she wouldn't be able to come to the capital without GTY's money. In the novel, Cao cousin has two shu sisters who also became concubines of others but they couldn't come back to the capital with the family because the parents did not buy their freedom back. Of course, after Cao cousin is in the capital, she will try to attach herself to Dr. He. My point is GTY prevented ML's marriage to Dr. He by starting the fire (Cao cousin's freedom) so that he can marry ML himself. He was not just looking out for ML's future by letting her know in advance of Cao cousin's existence. 

I'm not saying GTY is evil. I understand it is fair game in fighting for what he wants. Just pointing out he manipulated others' lives, not just accelerated things that were bound to happen. 

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24 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

well...if you listen to GTY and ML's conversation in TV epi 40, GTY admitted he paid for Cao cousin's freedom from being a concubine of a military official in the city where she was exiled. Then, he asked someone to suggest Cao family to go to capital instead of their original plan of returning to their hometown. Cao cousin was already married to this official as concubine, her parents were not capable to buy her freedom and she wouldn't be able to come to the capital without GTY's money. In the novel, Cao cousin has two shu sisters who also became concubines of others but they couldn't come back to the capital with the family because the parents did not buy their freedom back. Of course, after Cao cousin is in the capital, she will try to attach herself to Dr. He. My point is GTY prevented ML's marriage to Dr. He by starting the fire (Cao cousin's freedom) so that he can marry ML himself. He was not just looking out for ML's future by letting her know in advance of Cao cousin's existence. 

I'm not saying GTY is evil. I understand it is fair game in fighting for what he wants. Just pointing out he manipulated others' lives, not just accelerated things that were bound to happen. 

 

Yes, you're right, in the drama it he did buy them their freedom. What I said was what I remember from the book. I understand that it's not your intention to slander GTY. 

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1 hour ago, fra8 said:

 

I have a soft spot for GTY, but in the book I  didn't agree with what he did all the time and even with what ML did.

I think they love each other , but they are vulnerable because of what they went through.  GTY was never loved, ML had her granny but she lost her mom, her father didn't care.  GTY schemed to marry her, but he knew QH was her first choice. He said he wasn't worried but who knows deep down. And ML said it already, she was scared that she could lose her good life/her happiness. I don't think at all it's going to be lack of love, but it could be fear or lack of trust, lack of communication. They need to learn how to love and how to trust,.

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Since it's likely they keep the fire accident, ML could feel hurt by his reaction. Maybe she won't say anything, but she might change her behaviour. In the novel only in the end and after they made up, she found out he did it to protect himself and them.  I hope the keep the scene of them after making up when they tell each other everything.

And maybe her change of behaviour with her meeting QH, it's going to spark his insecurities.

I doubt they are going to make gTY or ML look bad, I hope they keep their consistency. I have doubts about QH.

Aw that makes me feel sad. I just want to see them happy with no troubles but thats impossible..maybe near the end. I hope they dont get mad at each other for a long time and make up quickly. The fear of trust and love...i mean...thats pretty much lacking trust/love..ahh 

 

On the other side its only the beginning of their new life why am i thinking about these things already. Why cant i just enjoy their loveliness while it last now haha. I will just focus on this so i dont feel too sad.

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46 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

well...if you listen to GTY and ML's conversation in TV epi 40, GTY admitted he paid for Cao cousin's freedom from being a concubine of a military official in the city where she was exiled. Then, he asked someone to suggest Cao family to go to capital instead of their original plan of returning to their hometown. Cao cousin was already married to this official as concubine, her parents were not capable to buy her freedom and she wouldn't be able to come to the capital without GTY's money. In the novel, Cao cousin has two shu sisters who also became concubines of others but they couldn't come back to the capital with the family because the parents did not buy their freedom back. Of course, after Cao cousin is in the capital, she will try to attach herself to Dr. He. My point is GTY prevented ML's marriage to Dr. He by starting the fire (Cao cousin's freedom) so that he can marry ML himself. He was not just looking out for ML's future by letting her know in advance of Cao cousin's existence. 

I'm not saying GTY is evil. I understand it is fair game in fighting for what he wants. Just pointing out he manipulated others' lives, not just accelerated things that were bound to happen. 

The principal problem with Dr. He is not the cousin, is his soft-hearted nature, and that's what ML tells grandma when she thinks of the future years with him in the marriage. That soft heart will show soon or later being with the cousin or other things.

 

GTY is obviously manipulating to his own benefit but at the end of the day he is only showing the truth about Dr.He, same way ML told GTY about Manniang, and even if GTY didn't have feelings for ML and didn't want to marry her I think is good for ML to know better Dr.He before marriage so she can decide.

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14 minutes ago, anzomi said:

The principal problem with Dr. He is not the cousin, is his soft-hearted nature, and that's what ML tells grandma when she thinks of the future years with him in the marriage. That soft heart will show soon or later being with the cousin or other things.

 

GTY is obviously manipulating to his own benefit but at the end of the day he is only showing the truth about Dr.He, same way ML told GTY about Manniang, and even if GTY didn't have feelings for ML and didn't want to marry her I think is good for ML to know better Dr.He before marriage so she can decide.

My thought exactly and that dr he weakest point that ml can not accept. 

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In my opinion, possibly with the exception of Doc He, CB and wife (that we can see so far), everyone is a schemer in this drama, whether it’s for survival, revenge, or to get something they want. The difference is that each one schemes within their abilities and character. QH pulled little innocent schemes that in his mind is not harmful whereas GTY and ML pulled some whopping ones but they all did it within their characters and perceptions.  Same for the others, SH, CL, Molan, Madame Liang, etc. They all have their flaws and their good points.  And both QH and GTY have the right to feel the way they do because each has their own perspectives of what’s going on. For me, the fact that these characters have been able to generate this much discussion is a testament to the writers and actors for the great job they did. I also enjoy reading everyone’s varied opinions. :)

 

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5 hours ago, nichiwoohee said:

forgive me, but I think someone posted before how gty feels insecure, he felt ML isn’t revealing her true self with gty but do so with qh? Is this the correct translation? If it is, how so? Gty is the one ML could let loose with other than grandma.. 

I’ve commented before that I think GTY may feel insecure based on what him and ML said to each other in the love triangle trailer. It’s not about ML not being her true self since they changed that in the drama, but they also gave us more feelings between QH and ML than in the novel. I think they will have everything but the words I Love You. They have admiration, respect for each other, and happiness. And since GTY knew about the romantic feelings between QH and ML, after seeing their little meeting, there’s probably some insecurities there that he’s not in ML’s heart. Imagine what it would feel like to be in love with the person you’re married to but that person may still be in love with someone else. He’s very much in love with ML and may want the security of knowing she feels the same way. Based on ML’s remark to GTY in the trailer, GTY hasn’t mentioned love either and maybe that will also make him realize that he himself wasn’t completely honest with his feelings even though he tells her he admired her, I don’t think he’s mentioned love yet. No matter how great some actions are, sometimes people just need the security of those three little words or that they have a place in each other’s heart. 

 

That’s just my take on what their little personal crisis point could be about based on the little bit I saw in that love triangle trailer. We’ll see how they actually play it out when that part comes since these trailers can be misleading. 

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12 hours ago, hello210 said:
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From the novel spoilers I read, I thought the time when GTY was away in battle while ML was pregnant, the Stepmom brought Maniang to do the concubine griping thing which lead to ML going into labor, in hopes that both mother and child died, but both survived labor process (ML’s servants stopped Maniang from going too far), so Stepmom had her servant set the Fu on fire. GTY got there after the fire was started in time. From trailers, looks like they’re keeping this part in the drama.

 

Yeah she failed the concubine trick so she pulled another scheme.

 

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One thing I'm wondering is Why GTY had to scheme to get ML in the drama? He had to do it in the book cuz no one was on his side and ML barely knew him, but in the drama, he and ML had many interactions with each other. He was in a position where Sheng family would be happy marrying ML off to him. The only obstacle may be Grandma but if ML told her how he had helped her several time she would have accepted him. Besides, ML actually was fond of him this time. Why couldn't he just ask for ML's hand directly so that she could be proud and high. Instead everybody is thinking ML was just a replacement for Rulan. Why didn't he think that honesty and sincerity would work? He was in a very advantageous position yet he still had to use such underhanded method? And he wasn't being honest with ML either. He only told her when everything was already done. What? He didn't think that ML would accept him? It never crossed his mind that maybe it was against her will? At least he could have hinted to her what he was gonna do beforehand.

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6 hours ago, tomo74 said:

So, it's ok for GTY to mislead his best friend?, it's ok to scheme the family?.

About GTY knowing RL has bf it doesn't mean she can not change her mind, he is not GOD who can read people's mind.

If this thing done by QH, I dont know what people going to say.

This is why I said, some people just biased, for certain character it's ok for doing bad thing and have an excuses.

I'm not against GTY, I just want people judge each character fairly.

 

The whole point of this is that if QH had done what GTY is doing then he would be applauded as well. Because it shows that he is fighting for the girl he loves by planning and using cunning. But as you said it’s not his personality & it’s his personality that I don’t really like

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1 hour ago, anzomi said:

The principal problem with Dr. He is not the cousin, is his soft-hearted nature, and that's what ML tells grandma when she thinks of the future years with him in the marriage. That soft heart will show soon or later being with the cousin or other things.

 

GTY is obviously manipulating to his own benefit but at the end of the day he is only showing the truth about Dr.He, same way ML told GTY about Manniang, and even if GTY didn't have feelings for ML and didn't want to marry her I think is good for ML to know better Dr.He before marriage so she can decide.

Well said @anzomi thanks for saying that After reading your post it made me realize GTY can manipulate anyone he wants but it doesn’t mean he would always win at the game/life he is playing with. It is by a chance he did win this time and there was a chance he still could have lost Ming Lan in the end. He gave her the opportunity to see how Dr He’s kindness could affect their future if she married to him. She chose to let him go.

 

I will be honest all this manipulation was making me waved on the amount of manipulation GTY has done to Ming Lan. Since this post I am back on GTY’s side. lol lol evil-smile-onion-head-emoticon.gif evil-smile-onion-head-emoticon.gif

Everyone action aren’t always black and white because there are a lot of possibilities of how it will end depending on the individual. 

 

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10 minutes ago, linhlinh111 said:

One thing I'm wondering is Why GTY had to scheme to get ML in the drama? He had to do it in the book cuz no one was on his side and ML barely knew him, but in the drama, he and ML had many interactions with each other. He was in a position where Sheng family would be happy marrying ML off to him. The only obstacle may be Grandma but if ML told her how he had helped her several time she would have accepted him. Besides, ML actually was fond of him this time. Why couldn't he just ask for ML's hand directly so that she could be proud and high. Instead everybody is thinking ML was just a replacement for Rulan. Why didn't he think that honesty and sincerity would work? He was in a very advantageous position yet he still had to use such underhanded method? And he wasn't being honest with ML either. He only told her when everything was already done. What? He didn't think that ML would accept him? It never crossed his mind that maybe it was against her will? At least he could have hinted to her what he was gonna do beforehand.

it's a good question and I agree. ML could have defended him and helped him to persuade her granny.

I wonder if he was uncertain she would and he wanted to be sure to marry her. Personally I think she would have been happy to marry him.

The only other thing I have in mind is that there was a social expectation/pressure. Since he was the son of a marrquis, successful general he couldn't marry the daughter of a concubine.

But this could be the foundation of their issues later. QH kept declaring his feelings because to him ML was a replacement. GTY knew he got her through scheming.

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6 minutes ago, linhlinh111 said:

One thing I'm wondering is Why GTY had to scheme to get ML in the drama? He had to do it in the book cuz no one was on his side and ML barely knew him, but in the drama, he and ML had many interactions with each other. He was in a position where Sheng family would be happy marrying ML off to him. The only obstacle may be Grandma but if ML told her how he had helped her several time she would have accepted him. Besides, ML actually was fond of him this time. Why couldn't he just ask for ML's hand directly so that she could be proud and high. Instead everybody is thinking ML was just a replacement for Rulan. Why didn't he think that honesty and sincerity would work? He was in a very advantageous position yet he still had to use such underhanded method? And he wasn't being honest with ML either. He only told her when everything was already done. What? He didn't think that ML would accept him? It never crossed his mind that maybe it was against her will? At least he could have hinted to her what he was gonna do beforehand.

Grandma wouldn’t have agreed no matter how high in status he is. When she was talking about 6th Liang son during Molan affair she said he is ‘worse than 2nd Gu’. That’s her opinion of him. She wouldn’t have agreed even if ML tells her that he saved her multiple times. Also, would Big Madam be happy that a General of high standing is passing over her daughter to ask for ML’s hand? Now after his scheming, she is telling everyone that ML is considered a Di daiughter & in Sheng Hong’s eyes ML saved his family name by marrying GTY

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2 minutes ago, fra8 said:

it's a good question and I agree. ML could have defended him and helped him to persuade her granny.

I wonder if he was uncertain she would and he wanted to be sure to marry her. Personally I think she would have been happy to marry him.

The only thing I have in mind is that there was a social expectation/pressure. Since he was the son of a marrquis, successful general he couldn't marry the daughter of a concubine.

But this could be the foundation of their issues later. QH kept declaring his feelings because to him ML was a replacement. GTY knew he got her through scheming.

But ML also knows the truth, that GTY plotted everything to marry her so how can that be the root of their issues? Personally I think it’s insecurities too. ML after seeing Manniang’s punishment probably got a flashback of Concubine Lin going unpunished & she told GTY in the trailer that she wouldn’t mind if he got concubines. That statement probably brought back GTY’s insecurities & seeing her meeting QH just pushed everything past the boiling point

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2 minutes ago, linhlinh111 said:

One thing I'm wondering is Why GTY had to scheme to get ML in the drama? He had to do it in the book cuz no one was on his side and ML barely knew him, but in the drama, he and ML had many interactions with each other. He was in a position where Sheng family would be happy marrying ML off to him. The only obstacle may be Grandma but if ML told her how he had helped her several time she would have accepted him. Besides, ML actually was fond of him this time. Why couldn't he just ask for ML's hand directly so that she could be proud and high. Instead everybody is thinking ML was just a replacement for Rulan. Why didn't he think that honesty and sincerity would work? He was in a very advantageous position yet he still had to use such underhanded method? And he wasn't being honest with ML either. He only told her when everything was already done. What? He didn't think that ML would accept him? It never crossed his mind that maybe it was against her will? At least he could have hinted to her what he was gonna do beforehand.

We also have to remember their little argument at the snack shop when he confronted ML about his first proposal attempt and also the fact that he had made it public that he would only marry a di daughter. Correct me if I’m wrong but everyone still perceived ML as shu born until Daniang pointed out that she is registered under her so she is considered a di daughter of the Shengs. I think that’s why they added little things like that in the drama so that they can keep the GTY had to scheme to get ML aspect of the novel. I don’t know if anyone has posed the question in interviews with the director/writer though so that’s just my guess on it.

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10 minutes ago, darkphoenix123 said:

But ML also knows the truth, that GTY plotted everything to marry her so how can that be the root of their issues? Personally I think it’s insecurities too. ML after seeing Manniang’s punishment probably got a flashback of Concubine Lin going unpunished & she told GTY in the trailer that she wouldn’t mind if he got concubines. That statement probably brought back GTY’s insecurities & seeing her meeting QH just pushed everything past the boiling point

 

I lost that part. Thanks!

I meant mostly QH's perception of her being a second choice for GTY and then still believing she loved just him.  I hope that QH wouldnt' have confessed his feelings  if he thought she was happy and in love and really loved. So it was just a wrong perceptiong, if not I would dislike him more. And this would spark  GTY's insecurities because he could feel a second choice especially if she said that.

 

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2 minutes ago, hello210 said:

We also have to remember their little argument at the snack shop when he confronted ML about his first proposal attempt and also the fact that he had made it public that he would only marry a di daughter. Correct me if I’m wrong but everyone still perceived ML as shu born until Daniang pointed out that she is registered under her so she is considered a di daughter of the Shengs. I think that’s why they added little things like that in the drama so that they can keep the GTY had to scheme to get ML aspect of the novel. I don’t know if anyone has posed the question in interviews with the director/writer though so that’s just my guess on it.

Yeah but that was his past life. Wouldn't asking for ML, a shu daughter, prove that his view on status has changed? Instead of asking for the di daughter and get the shu daughter as a replacement? Maybe ML and Grandma now knows that he really wanted ML but others don't, so wouldn't that kinda cheapen ML's value?

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