[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否？知否？应是绿肥红瘦

[dito]

6 hours ago, m0us3y said:

I just wondered how the GTY-RL/ML will play out. 

Because as we can see when Molan made a mess and then the mom and dad wanted to "sacrifice" ML to pacify Liang Family and conclude the matter, grandma pretty much threw in the towel and said ML is no sacrificial lamb! 

 

So when the RL case unfolds, and they want to swap the bride, isnt that a similar issue? 

Throw ML to the firepit (although we know it's not really a firepit) to pacify Gu Family? 

 

6 hours ago, hello210 said:

I think that’ll come out differently though. ML was adamant that grandma not give in and said she’d rather live her life single, serving grandma, and then become a nun, etc. than have grandma give in to the Liangs. I think ML will agree to the switch. But grandma is also smart, she might see through it all too.  However they do it, it’s going to be funny to watch the Shengs. 

 

 Granny and ML both did not agree to the swap at first. Then GTY arranged to speak with ML alone and told her everything...all about his plan....and why he chose this way to marry her. That granny would never agree if he came directly for her hand....even though he was sincere, with his past Granny would never accept him....no matter the height he reaches. 

After that ML told granny about GTY saving her from the bandits. ML had never told anyone about that before. In the book he only saved her once but the drama has shown him saving her 3-4 times. Then ML told granny how GTY planned everything from doc. cousin to Rulan getting caught with her lover.

Granny realized how smart GTY was to leave the Sheng family no way to back out. But since it was his scheme that put them in this position he also left them a way to save face in the society when they change the bride from RL to ML. And thats the reason GTY never said which sister he wanted to marry. The sheng family also never specifically said GTY was getting married to RL. To the world outside it was said GTY was marrying one of the sheng daughters. Even Hualan only told her inlaws that GTY was marrying her sister.....didn't specify which sister.

Granny gave in since ML didn't oppose after that.

I don't think the drama is going to change much of it. 

 

edit

In the book it was actually Hualan who brought GTY's proposal to her family. GTY was a good friend of her husband. When RL's mess came out and GTY suggested ML, Hualan was a bit sad for her sister but then realized that actually ML was a better match for GTY. So she totally approved and even convinced her mother. It was also Hualan who invited ML to her house so that GTY can speak with ML alone.

I think thats why ML and Hualan became more close after ML's marriage to GTY.

[Maria Brimstone]

Oh hey ... what happened to the Imperial Consort Rong after the rebellion?

[Golden Flower]

I'm going to mention about script inconsistencies between scenes for those asked me and please skip if you aren't interested or if you haven't watched epi 32 forward....

Spoiler

Although these are minor details, I just couldn't help but noticed and rolled my eyes.  Without even comparing to NIF 1/2, I do not remember feeling this way about script in Battle of Changsha or Imperial Doctress which are less well-known. I think this drama lost track of time (years) and events by changing the order of events from the book as well as adding many unnecessary events/ scenes.  

(1) In TV epi 36, after rebellion, GTY helped CB and SH got into the carriage to leave palace and he apologized CB for not mentioning ML's effort in saving the old emperor as he was worried about her reputation and thus his action prevented Sheng family from getting huge merit. CB said he understood as it was just an accidental meeting with the original palace maid that ML was involved. GTY then told CB to remind ML not to tell anyone including the grandma that she came inside the palace. I was like huh? Her grandma and family knew she came to palace to deliver fish soup and probably thought she got stuck there and her dad knows she escaped from dog hole. The lines should have been not to tell anyone about her involvement in pacifying rebellion including grandma or just exclude grandma. Also, the whole setup about ML being able to get into the palace building where they're working is a bit forced. It is possible to send food and drink by family for officials who have been staying inside the palace but her being able to get inside their workplace is unheard of. Nobody can come inside the front or back palace unless summoned or front palace unless you are an official. There is a building by the gate where family member of officials or palace maids and eunuchs can meet them while they're working inside. Also, ML waiting until late night outside citygate and going home by herself in eunuch clothes won't create any problem? Grandma and her sister-in-law won't be worried when she doesn't come home and her dad won't wonder when he finds out ML came home very late?  The writers are making these scenes to make another OTP moment and trying to involve ML in everything but I felt that it is a bit cliche especially since her effort was not mentioned to old emperor. (Not sure new emperor will give her noble woman title for this effort later). Instead of making drama too long, I rather they do not include these scenes that aren't too logical. 

(2) Lin Yiniang begged SH to forgive Molan as CF has been studying for half a year and his imperial palace exam retake is going to be soon (it has been at least a year and a half since they took the exam. HL who wasn't pregnant during their first exam has a half a year old son during Molan's scandal) and it won't be appropriate for him if his sister is beaten to death. SH also said that he only punished Molan to kneel due to CF taking exam soon basically in half a year. Then, in today's preview, QH mentioned that he can take imperial palace exam again in Spring (very soon) and no longer needs to wait another year because new emperor decided to hold additional exam (A few emperors in Song Dynasty do this looking for new talents). LYN and SH did not know there will be exam in half a year when Molan's scandal broke out. The imperial exam including provincial ones are held once every 3 years and there are three levels (provincial, national and palace). I let it go when LYN and SH mentioned about CF retaking exam in half a year thinking writers are making to have exam every year. Then, they went and have this scene of QH reading new emperor's announcement and telling his parents about this additional exam. It has been almost 2 years they took the exam last time. QH's scenes made sense but earlier scene doesn't. 

 

 

 

[fra8]

6 hours ago, leeza77 said:

You must remember ml was a master og disguise. Even grandma said that she was excellent in controlling her composure. Thus, she may just concealher real feeling knowing that there is nothing she can do. 

 

Imo, she doesn't have romantic feelings at the moment. She likes him, respects him and she feels safe with him. She also puts him in the list with her mother and granny. So there is a strong foundation for love. I guess they might keep her feelings under wraps before their fight.  We will just guess she loves him.

 Howere I can see her feeling a bit disappointed he wanted to marry rulan. Anyway she might have thought he wanted a di wife as he said. After the qh débâcle, I don't see her thinking about love or hoping for love, just trying to protect herself from disappointment.

But I am sure she is happy to marry him. It's a good wedding with a person she likes, even if she doesnt love or doesn't  realize she love. Since it's going to be a different kind of love from the one she felt for QH, she might be uncertain for a while.

[artbox]

The story has been exciting so far though now I feel like they might really ruin QH’s character growth haha. I hoped it would end in a failed first love and everyone moves on

 

what I’m most excited for is Molan’s marriage life hahaha. I want to see her get her comeuppance.

[Renaro Kopique]

Not sure if this has been asked before but what was Hualan's ending in the novel?

[sava2sava]

On to the rebellion, The Emperor concubine gatherd all those official wifes and held them hostage amd planned to use them to force the Emperor to abdicate his throne to her son..  She actually blamed her Lil sister death on QH mom.. I think the princess died in child birth..  Of course she'll never see it as fault of her own.. I tell you her and her father plotted to kidnap a princess had her probably gang raped in order for your sister to marry the man she wanted and yet they seem to think all will turn out well for them.. Killing all them off was the best thing that could have happen in that dynasty..  She's another I can;t wait to see the look on her face when the tables turn on her.. 

[hello210]

2 hours ago, Golden Flower said:

I'm going to mention about script inconsistencies between scenes for those asked me and please skip if you aren't interested or if you haven't watched epi 32 forward....

  Reveal hidden contents

Although these are minor details, I just couldn't help but noticed and rolled my eyes.  Without even comparing to NIF 1/2, I do not remember feeling this way about script in Battle of Changsha or Imperial Doctress which are less well-known. I think this drama lost track of time (years) and events by changing the order of events from the book as well as adding many unnecessary events/ scenes.  

(1) In TV epi 36, after rebellion, GTY helped CB and SH got into the carriage to leave palace and he apologized CB for not mentioning ML's effort in saving the old emperor as he was worried about her reputation and thus his action prevented Sheng family from getting huge merit. CB said he understood as it was just an accidental meeting with the original palace maid that ML was involved. GTY then told CB to remind ML not to tell anyone including the grandma that she came inside the palace. I was like huh? Her grandma and family knew she came to palace to deliver fish soup and probably thought she got stuck there and her dad knows she escaped from dog hole. The lines should have been not to tell anyone about her involvement in pacifying rebellion including grandma or just exclude grandma. Also, the whole setup about ML being able to get into the palace building where they're working is a bit forced. It is possible to send food and drink by family for officials who have been staying inside the palace but her being able to get inside their workplace is unheard of. Nobody can come inside the front or back palace unless summoned or front palace unless you are an official. There is a building by the gate where family member of officials or palace maids and eunuchs can meet them while they're working inside. Also, ML waiting until late night outside citygate and going home by herself in eunuch clothes won't create any problem? Grandma and her sister-in-law won't be worried when she doesn't come home and her dad won't wonder when he finds out ML came home very late?  The writers are making these scenes to make another OTP moment and trying to involve ML in everything but I felt that it is a bit cliche especially since her effort was not mentioned. (Not sure new emperor will give her noble woman title for this effort later). Instead of making drama too long, I rather they do not include these scenes that aren't too logical. 

(2) Lin Yiniang begged SH to forgive Molan as CF has been studying for half a year and his imperial palace exam retake is going to be soon (it has been at least a year and a half since they took the exam. HL who wasn't pregnant during their first exam has a half a year old son during Molan's scandal) and it won't be appropriate for him if his sister is beaten to death. SH also said that he only punished Molan to kneel due to CF taking exam soon basically in half a year. Then, in today's preview, QH mentioned that he can take imperial palace exam again in Spring (very soon) and no longer needs to wait another year because new emperor decided to hold additional exam (A few emperors in Song Dynasty do this looking for new talents). LYN and SH did not know there will be exam in half a year when Molan's scandal broke out. The imperial exam including provincial ones are held once every 3 years and there are three levels (provincial, national and palace). I let it go when LYN and SH mentioned about CF retaking exam in half a year thinking writers are making to have exam every year. Then, they went and have this scene of QH reading new emperor's announcement and telling his parents about this additional exam. It has been almost 2 years they took the exam last time. QH's scenes made sense but earlier scene doesn't. 

 

 

 

Spoiler

Thanks. I didn’t fully understand what GTY and CB were talking about but I knew it had something to do with ML and her reputation. As for Concubine Lin and Shen Hong’s exchange regarding CF being distracted from the exam, I just took that as her grasping at straws and just throwing out all the excuses hoping SH would bite one. Both were irrational and not thinking so for me, I wasn’t taking them literally. QH scene, yes, as you said matched but that was also back in the rational world and not the post-explosion zone of Molan’s bomb. 

 

[Lunkera]

@Renaro Kopique From what i've heard here, her ending wasn't bad. Just some trouble with her MIL but that got fixed when she got a concubine for her FIL

[UnniSarah]

12 hours ago, cherubstomato said:

I too don’t feel any sympathy for Molan and Concubine Lin.  unlike how I felt pity for MN as of now. We’ll see later if she makes a comeback. 

 

For one, they reap what they sow. They are pitiful but I’m not sympathetic. First of all Concubine Lin had a chance to become a proper main wife but she didn’t want to be with a poor man thus she did a Manniang style to Sheng Hong, pretending to be pitiful. She never cared about him, she just cared about money. Sure it could be about life and death for some of these woman but it wasn’t as if she would starve to death had they both married the other man. They were just greedy for money and status like mother and daughter.

The father chose a suitable partner for Molan but all they cared about is how poor he was despite the father saying he has a promising career which will ultimately make them very fortunate in the future. But nope they want self gratification right now and they don’t want to bet on chances. Not even meeting the guy. 

Hualan thought Molan became who she was being raised by her mother but it was just the way she was. And it’s true. She was always trying hard to be the center of attention, she always wanted to outdo her sisters. She even with her real brother only cared about herself and her future... She always throws fits if she didn’t get what she wants. She is a very jealous person. Sheng Hong doting on them must be because of Concubine Lin acting pitiful that they are just concubines and don’t have great fortune as a main wife. This causing him to neglect Big Madam. But now he realizes all the love he gave to them was in vain.

All the evil deeds they did they must pay for.

Well said chingu @cherubstomato..... I can never pity Molan and Concubine Lin. I believe Concubine Lin and both her children are very much like her. It's in their DNA, they have no love for their father who doted on them.  You have two parents who dote on you, shouldn't you have respect for them. Shouldn't you be loyal to the one who cloth you and buys you anything you need. Ironically the one who controls the purse strings is the mother, now I need to strike that from my opinion. Shouldn't you be loyal to the one who's reputation that is important so that can keep you living in style??? Molan choosing to listen to her mother is beacause of 1. She has seen her mother control their father. 2. Her mother always get's her way 3. Mother owns store and farmland which came from Main Wife's dowry ( YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW SHOCKED I WAS TO HEAR HE HAD THE NERVE TO GIVE HIS CONCUBINE PROPERTY THAT CAME WITH THE MAIN WIFE AS A DOWRY. I WAS BEYOND SHOCKED AND THEN BECAME SO MAD). Do you know what i found climactic in episode 31-32 is when Concubine Lin played the victim. It was so funny, I could not stop laughing because she is the one who threw herself at him, she seduced him. I was so happy that he finally realized that CL " NEVER LOVE HIM" . lOL loL LOL     I especially loved it when she said "WHY DIDN'T HE THINK OF HER VIRTUE BACK THEN" Ironically she is very much "RIGHT" But let's be honest, she is the one who seduced him first. Only a man with a strong mind can actually say no to richard simmons throwing themselves at him.  The look on Sheng Hongs face was classic. I loved it so much, I plan to GIF it later one.  Thas was one eye opener for him , the other one was when ZUMU reminded him , Concubine Lin was a terrible parent why is he so surprised that Mo'er would do such a thing when Cheng Feng got him locked up in the Imperial Study for three days. How he would always forget the things they have done because of Concubine Lin pitiful ways ( i call that manipulative ways)........ lol lol lol The way he ran out of the room once she reminded him of how he screwed up his household for that richard simmons. Another eye opener, was to find out she was the one who spread it arount town that Mo'er was spending time with the sixth Son of the Count Liang. LOL LOL HE was still shocked and yet he still couldn't beat her to death. lol lol 

[UnniSarah]

12 hours ago, sava2sava said:

Hello All. Can someone please translate these two previews. 37 & 38

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I had to crack up at dad and mom when the brother told them secong uncles like ML.. Dad almost choke mom just about fell off the bed

Boy subs are copming like snails. I hate when I start a serious early on I get so interested in it makes me angry with myself for starting at the begaining.. 

I really curious to what GTY sickly brother and the two faced step mom conversation..

 

 

@sava2sava  I too hate when that happen for me too. I think maybe they don't have enough people doing the translation or translating it is very complicated.

@sava2sava  said   

Spoiler

Not only did she die from sickness but also sickness in the heart seeing how better ML is in the game of calculation and manipulation that Molan was no match for her not even Lin herself could beat ML and she knew this before she died and it was nothing she could do about it or no one to help her or Molan..  When ML went to see her the last time just her action by not saying nothing told Lin what she knew and showed her the revenge best served cold.. You go girl..

Chingu you are correct revenge is best served cold. Ming Lan believed in an eye for an eye for example 1 corpse and 2 souls. Isn't that similar to Concubine Lin   ( 1 corpse and 2 souls)... Lol lol  at least she did not kill her sister too but in some way she did because she is now going to suffer and wish she was dead too. 

[UnniSarah]

11 hours ago, nichiwoohee said:

I see some here like RL’s character, I'm leaning on the dislike a bit, I just hate how she always mention illegitimate, knowing her place etc. Her sisterly love is limited

@nichiwoohee... I dislike her too. She is sooooo stuck up but Ming Lan loves her sister though. She is such a brat but at least she isn't two faced. That is a quality I don't hate but she needs to learn not to put her own sister down all the time. She is always complimenting Ming Lan not to aim to high in society. She likes that Ming Lan isn't like Mo'er but she is toooooo blunt at times. I have to say she is one lucky character because Ming Lan doesn't hate her and accept her sister  for the way she is. smh smh 

[leeza77]

7 minutes ago, UnniSarah said:

@nichiwoohee... I dislike her too. She is sooooo stuck up but Ming Lan loves her sister though. She is such a brat but at least she isn't two faced. That is a quality I don't hate but she needs to learn to put her own sister down all the time. She is always complimenting Ming Lan not to aim to high in society. She likes that Ming Lan isn't like Mo'er but she is toooooo blunt at times. I have to say she is one lucky character because Ming Lan doesn't hate her and accept her sister  for the way she is. smh smh 

The irony is that she fell in love with a scholar who was picked by her father for molan. I remember the conversation with her maid which the maid told that the father had kept inviting the exam candidate for molan to choose as propective husband. And that time her handkerchief flew and was picked up by a man in front of her house. I guess he was one of molan's candidate. 

 

[m0us3y]

In the latest previews there was a scene where ML told GTY that in her life, there are only 3 people that she would repay their kindness with her life: her biological mom, granny and GTY. 

 

And then I rewatch episode 33 with full subs, and I felt the weight of those words in later episodes. 

 

When she's not ready to speak, no one could make her say anything. And no one would ever figure out the extent she went to for revenge. Even granny was left in the dark wondering what ML was thinking. 

 

But when she finally went to confess to the granny, she put everything down, and gave all details. Without being forced. Without being coerced. And she let granny be the judge. Shows how much she trusted granny not to expose her, that she would not fight back whatever punishments granny decides, and if granny decides to expose her, she'll accept that, because she will repay her kindness with her life....

That scene between ML and granny felt so raw, so scary, yet so sad. That ML would bare it all once she achieves her goal, that she's capable of such scheming, and that she had to resort to it because no one else would give her justice...

 

ML is truly a person that would repay you twice what she owes you, or what you owe her. 

 

The scene where she went to visit concubine Lin , just sat there, with just a single sentence of "I had no intention of marrying into Liang Family"...and then just look at concubine Lin going crazy the whole time ..

Cold...and she still wasn't done...until concubine Lin dies...

 

[UnniSarah]

21 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

The irony is that she fell in love with a scholar who was picked by her father for molan. I remember the conversation with her maid which the maid told that the father had kept inviting the exam candidate for molan to choose as propective husband. And that time her handkerchief flew and was picked up by a man in front of her house. I guess he was one of molan's candidate. 

 

I too loved that irony @leeza77. That is why I say Rulan is very lucky. She gets to marry the man she wants and be happy. She has sister who will hurt anyone who hurt their family. 

Another funny thing I found . Sheng Hongs Main WiFE was laughing to hear that the richard simmons who has been a pain in richard simmons through her whole marriage. She laughed because she was finally free from what wench. 

[frenchfan]

13 hours ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

I dont think he would use CB like that but maybe thats just me. 

I don't think so neither.  I think that GTY thought that he was being very obvious since he literally cited all of ML's traits but CB not being with his sisters enough did not know that he meant ML not RL.  I mean come on, even papa Sheng thought that the description fits ML more than RL.  But it was so funny.  I kept watching it and I kep cracking up.  LOLLLLLLLLLLL

[zenya22]

8 hours ago, darkphoenix123 said:

don’t think the ‘debt’ they mentioned was literal. It was more like she is doing her duty as a grandmother even when she doesn’t need to because she is the grandmother & to save the other 3 granddaughters. Grandma probably used one of her war strategems & convinced Mama Liang

I understand that she was doing her duty. I just quoted what grandma said about debt which for me refers to the negotiation in the works and the conditons and concessions for negotiation that were set during the talk of the Countess and Big Madam. The Shengs are transacting for the acceptance of Molan to be bride to the Liang 6th son as she was caught in a compromising situation, her mother spread the rumors, her reputation is in ruins and the family's reputation and honor are at stake.  If the Liang family does not accept Molan the Shengs would be ruined. So there is a condition (debt) created that was caused by someones actions and that condition demands or needs to be countered or fulfilled. The countess will accept Molan the damaged goods if the Shengs will add the pure and whole Minglan. Granny clearing the debt for me means that she needs to put down something or set her own conditions to counter or cancel the demands (debt) laid out on the table. I just thought that it could be a bigger dowry that is all. 

[frenchfan]

1 hour ago, m0us3y said:

In the latest previews there was a scene where ML told GTY that in her life, there are only 3 people that she would repay their kindness with her life: her biological mom, granny and GTY. 

 

And then I rewatch episode 33 with full subs, and I felt the weight of those words in later episodes. 

 

When she's not ready to speak, no one could make her say anything. And no one would ever figure out the extent she went to for revenge. Even granny was left in the dark wondering what ML was thinking. 

 

But when she finally went to confess to the granny, she put everything down, and gave all details. Without being forced. Without being coerced. And she let granny be the judge. Shows how much she trusted granny not to expose her, that she would not fight back whatever punishments granny decides, and if granny decides to expose her, she'll accept that, because she will repay her kindness with her life....

That scene between ML and granny felt so raw, so scary, yet so sad. That ML would bare it all once she achieves her goal, that she's capable of such scheming, and that she had to resort to it because no one else would give her justice...

 

ML is truly a person that would repay you twice what she owes you, or what you owe her. 

 

The scene where she went to visit concubine Lin , just sat there, with just a single sentence of "I had no intention of marrying into Liang Family"...and then just look at concubine Lin going crazy the whole time ..

Cold...and she still wasn't done...until concubine Lin dies...

 

Well, even though she was 8 at the time, she still remembered how her mum bled to death with her baby brother too big to come and no help around as they stopped everyone from going out to get doctor for the birth. The midwife was drunk (the kitche staff purposedly made her drink until she was too drunk to be of any use), the person sent for hot water never came.....she suffered and she remembered.  Even at that time she knew full well that they were the least favoured but stil Linniang begrudged them.  They had no coals for the winter, not enough food, no allowances......and no one knew because the witch knew how to manipulate.  So yes, ML did orchestrated Linniang's downfall but you could see that she did not showed her hands.  She showed the painting and instead of sprouting vengeance, she just sat there and it unnerved Linniang more because of it.  I must say that she did it all with "style" and "class".   

[hello210]

31 minutes ago, zenya22 said:

I understand that she was doing her duty. I just quoted what grandma said about debt which for me refers to the negotiation in the works and the conditons and concessions for negotiation that were set during the talk of the Countess and Big Madam. The Shengs are transacting for the acceptance of Molan to be bride to the Liang 6th son as she was caught in a compromising situation, her mother spread the rumors, her reputation is in ruins and the family's reputation and honor are at stake.  If the Liang family does not accept Molan the Shengs would be ruined. So there is a condition (debt) created that was caused by someones actions and that condition demands or needs to be countered or fulfilled. The countess will accept Molan the damaged goods if the Shengs will add the pure and whole Minglan. Granny clearing the debt for me means that she needs to put down something or set her own conditions to counter or cancel the demands (debt) laid out on the table. I just thought that it could be a bigger dowry that is all. 

Yeah, there could be so many different meanings behind what grandma said about children’s debt. I took it to mean clearing the filial debt. People have children for family honor and continuation of family line, it is something owed to parents and ancestors, so I saw it as fixing the problems created by Milan, Liniang, and Sheng Hong to keep it from hindering the other two sisters’ chances.

[leeza77]

Wow married!!! 

Spoiler

https://m.weibo.cn/p/index?containerid=2304444329199897397295&url_type=39&object_type=video&pos=1&luicode=10000011&lfid=1008087b79816b577f176fdd2f78aff12c1bbf_-_feed&featurecode=10000326