[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否？知否？应是绿肥红瘦

[dito]

1 hour ago, leeza77 said:

I really feel angry towards general shen's sister. Stupid woman. No wonder the noble ladies of bianjiang laughed at her.. How come she blamed ml for the punishment meted to concubine zhou. Didn't she realised the punishment was light enough for the crime committed.. Attempting murder against your superior. General Sheng also as stupid as her sister. Preventing eunuch from executing punishment meted by the ED to the concubine. Thus, he fell into ED trap. Luckily the empress has such a great heart and wisdom (of course on ml's advise) to ask forgiveness from ED. 

Love the conversation between grandma and ml, where ml told about her conversation with empress. Grandma remarked that id ml is a man, she will not lost to SH & CB. ML teasingly replied that grandma actually praised herself, because she's the one who raised her. 

 

I'm mad at both the dumb brother and sister. General Shen is totally undeserving of Lady Zhang......I wanted to whack him when he calmly started eating the snack when his mother in law was scolding him about mistreating her daughter. Everyone is super stressed about the danger Lady Zhang and the child were in and this moron couldn't care less. Then when he stepped in when the concubine was being punished.....ED is an idiot...sending someone so frail to do the slapping. ML's old momo's have more strength then this eunuch.

I'm upset they changed the sister's lines. From what I remember the little shen sister was actually very regretful for being a bit resentful towards Lady Zhang for taking her saintly dead sis in laws place. And she realised that their guilt almost cost them to cause a bigger sin.

[leeza77]

13 minutes ago, dito said:

 

I'm mad at both the dumb brother and sister. General Shen is totally undeserving of Lady Zhang......I wanted to whack him when he calmly started eating the snack when his mother in law was scolding him about mistreating her daughter. Everyone is super stressed about the danger Lady Zhang and the child were in and this moron couldn't care less. Then when he stepped in when the concubine was being punished.....ED is an idiot...sending someone so frail to do the slapping. ML's old momo's have more strength then this eunuch.

I'm upset they changed the sister's lines. From what I remember the little shen sister was actually very regretful for being a bit resentful towards Lady Zhang for taking her saintly dead sis in laws place. And she realised that their guilt almost cost them to cause a bigger sin.

Actually @ditoit's all ed's machinations. The eunuch she sent was her most trusted eunuch. She has calculated that general sheng will stop the punishment.  The eunuch fell by himself (but make it like it was general who pushed him). This is to further compound the mistake make by general sheng and put more pressure on the emperor and empress to punish general sheng heavily. 

[tinast]

2 hours ago, leeza77 said:

I really feel angry towards general shen's sister. Stupid woman. No wonder the noble ladies of bianjiang laughed at her.. How come she blamed ml for the punishment meted to concubine zhou. Didn't she realised the punishment was light enough for the crime committed.. Attempting murder against your superior. General Sheng also as stupid as her sister. Preventing eunuch from executing punishment meted by the ED to the concubine. Thus, he fell into ED trap. Luckily the empress has such a great heart and wisdom (of course on ml's advise) to ask forgiveness from ED. 

Love the conversation between grandma and ml, where ml told about her conversation with empress. Grandma remarked that id ml is a man, she will not lost to SH & CB. ML teasingly replied that grandma actually praised herself, because she's the one who raised her. 

I feel the same with you.

General sheng's sister shouldn't help ping (the concubine) at all whatever the reason. Causing someone's death?? And then just walk away like nothing happened.. what she'e thinking

And i applaud ML for knowing if that's ED trap for them. And directly goes to palace to advice empress

[dancingbee]

2 hours ago, m0us3y said:

I also love how cute XiaoTao is when she lashes out on Shitou when it's GTY that annoyed ML, although she knows it's not Shitou's fault. 

 

She's also totally loyal to ML. In the preview ML got mad at GTY and he asked XiaoTao to help him with his outer robe, and ML asked her not to, she totally just stood there and not do a thing! 

 

Xiao Tao  &  Shitou are my favorites. They both are totally loyal to their masters. You can tell how dependent both GTY and Ming Lan are on them physically and mentally.   
This show would be pale in colors without these two characters.  Here are some adorable pictures of them.

 

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[dito]

From the book......ML's thoughts after she found out the truth of the poisoning. I tweaked it a bit for better understanding. 

 

In just half a day, Old Madam Sheng looked thin, her skin was yellow, dry and wrinkled, but the vomiting and diarrhea has stopped. Ming Lan sat on the edge of the bed and slowly put her head on the old lady’s shoulder, just like she used to when she was a child.

 

Silently, in her heart she said - Thank you. When I was the most helpless, you raised me, protected me, taught me to grow up well, and let me have the courage to face this nasty place.

She has been very good at pretending. Pretending to be indifferent, pretending to be without fear, in fact, she had been afraid to death. In this strange world, if she had no care and warmth of this old woman, then what would she be? Old Madam Sheng was like a solid rock, standing firmly behind her, letting her rely on her, whenever and wherever, she was always sure that when she turns back, there will be a safe haven for her.

 

"I will not let them go," she said softly. "You shouldn't die like this." Grandmother should live to be in her 100s. Honored and loved by her children and grandchildren, and then pass away in her sleep.

"You are lonely, have no flesh and blood, no home, so they bullied you. Rest assured, you still have me." 

 

There is one more sentence at the end....but even with 3 different translators, I can't make sense of it.

[matrim]

1 hour ago, dito said:

From the book......ML's thoughts after she found out the truth of the poisoning. I tweaked it a bit for better understanding. 

 

In just half a day, Old Madam Sheng looked thin, her skin was yellow, dry and wrinkled, but the vomiting and diarrhea has stopped. Ming Lan sat on the edge of the bed and slowly put her head on the old lady’s shoulder, just like she used to when she was a child.

 

Silently, in her heart she said - Thank you. When I was the most helpless, you raised me, protected me, taught me to grow up, and let me have the courage to face this nasty place.

She has been very good at pretending. Pretending to be indifferent, pretending to be without fear, in fact, she had been afraid to death. In this strange world, if she had no care and warmth of this old woman, then what would she be? Old Madam Sheng was like a solid rock, standing firmly behind her, letting her rely on her, whenever and wherever, she was always sure that when she turns back, there will be a safe haven for her.

 

"I will not let them go," she said softly. "You shouldn't die like this." Grandmother should live to be in her 100s. Honored and loved by her children and grandchildren, and then pass away in her sleep.

"You are lonely, have no flesh and blood, no home, so they bullied you. Rest assured, you still have me." 

 

There is one more sentence at the end....but even with 3 different translators, I can't make sense of it.

The last sentence is difficult to translate word by word, as it is not very coherent. The gist of it means "I won't regret doing this (standing by your side, seeking justice for you etc), even if I'm betrayed by everyone, even if my life will be wasted." The last sentence is very important as it shows ML's determination to protect Grandma at any cost.

[Zamas Gobik]

4 hours ago, m0us3y said:

There's always more than meets the eyes. 

Show did well in showing us layers of the character. 

That beneath each surface, everyone has their own story, and reason..

Whether or not those reasons are something we could agree with, we were given characters that weren't just born evil..

 

On the surface, Mdm Qin is a soft-spoken, virtuous madam of Gu. 

Yet, beneath that surface, is a highly manipulative and scheming woman, trying to hold onto the power of Marquis. 

But even deeper than that, is merely a woman who directed her anger, jealousy and resentment to all the wrong people and places. 

She's jealous of her elder sis. Inferior in every way (not suited for child bearing, not good enough for managing household, short life, sickly), yet she got loved by Marquis Gu in a way she never got. 

For it may have all just happened from 1 mistake...she hoped. Hoped that Marquis would 1 day let go of her sis and love her. 

Then the disappointment, resentment, anger. 

She may have then turned her focus on power, and ensuring her son succeed the title..

GTY-ML is driving her to the edge of insanity, for they are a shadow of what her sis and Marquis Gu...ML supposedly inferior in her background, as a Shu daughter of a lower official, yet GTY being so in love, and passionate to her, and they are so supportive of each other. 

Pitiable person, but with unpardonable sins...

 

On the flip side of the coin, there is, on the surface, a weak, docile, meek, unassuming Shu daughter of a lowly scholar who suddenly got lucky to reach the higher branch, marrying up to a Marquis as main wife. 

Yet, underneath, ML is highly intelligent, calm, witty, sharp, ferocious, an astute woman. 

Whilst the world sees she got lucky, in reality, GTY is the lucky one as his family is really a big pile of mess, and comes with a lot of baggages, including a child, and a crazy ex. 

She's just been going into one battle after another since she married him. 

GTY knew from Day 1 that he's the lucky one, which he admitted to her on their wedding night. 

Once, Danju said that Miss is lucky to marry Dr He (before the couz appears), and XiaoTao corrected her, "No, whoever that marries Miss is the lucky one"...that sentiment was apt. 

 

That while the world sees what a person chooses to let them see, those closest to them, and those willing to see beneath the surface, understand. 

 

Given, ML did get lucky because GTY really loves her..but even if she ended up in a loveless marriage, she made a conscious choice, that she will live in peace. 

 

Show did well to flash out while some are born privileged, and entitled, others unfavoured and lowly, they are free to make choices in life. 

Even if they may not get to choose their marriage or career, they could still choose the path they want to walk with the cards they hold. 

Whether to live driven by greed, fulfilled by hatred and resentment, or to live merely in peace with the heart, is a choice that everyone has...

 

 

[dito]

10 minutes ago, matrim said:

The last sentence is difficult to translate word by word, as it is not very coherent. The gist of it means "I won't regret doing this (standing by your side, seeking justice for you etc), even if I'm betrayed by everyone, even if my life will be wasted."

Thank you. I couldn't make sense even after I broke it down. Google was talking about rebellion.....bing translate was saying renegade.....I was confused why was ML talking about the rebellion all of a sudden.

[Serena H.]

4 hours ago, m0us3y said:

@Golden Flower it's always interesting to read your analysis. They are always on another perspective. 

We may agree or disagree, but we could at least see or understand. 

 

Just one thing tho. 

On the incident where the 3 girls fell out and embarrassed the family, but only RL and ML Got punished..

I agree that SH didn't know Molan instigated it. But he also didn't know If RL or ML did. 

It was ML's words against RL and ML. 

Yet he chose to believe Molan and punished the other 2. 

If he really doesnt know who instigated, should he punished all 3 the same way?

Why then did Molan got away scot free?

 

I believe because she's the oldest

[matrim]

3 minutes ago, dito said:

Thank you. I couldn't make sense even after broke it down. Google was talking about rebellion.....bing translate was saying renegade.....I was confused why was ML talking about the rebellion all of a sudden.

I think the rebellion or renegade part comes from the idiom "众叛亲离" which means deserted and abandoned by all your friends and loved ones.  叛 can mean rebellion but in the context of this idiom, it means betray.

[dito]

Just now, matrim said:

I think the rebellion or renegade part comes from the idiom "众叛亲离" which means deserted and abandoned by all your friends and loved ones.  叛 can mean rebellion but in the context of this idiom, it means betray.

 

Yes ....deserted was also one of the words.....I was taking it literally...rebellion...deserter.

Another translator was kind of saying... walking the world alone or facing the world alone....which makes sense now that you've explained it. 

God, this language is too difficult.....so many different meanings of a word depending upon the context its used in.

[Suzzy San]

7 minutes ago, dito said:

 

Yes ....deserted was also one of the words.....I was taking it literally...rebellion...deserter.

Another translator was kind of saying... walking the world alone or facing the world alone....which makes sense now that you've explained it. 

God, this language is too difficult.....so many different meanings of a word depending upon the context its used in.

Since this  was what ML thought while revenging for grandma, I can now see why she was so happy GTY had her back when he returned.. And in the drama too, she was glad that he also really didn't care about reputation and made sure grandma was given justice.. 

[dito]

4 minutes ago, Suzzy San said:

Since this  was what ML thought while revenging for grandma, I can now see why she was so happy GTY had her back when he returned.. And in the drama too, she was glad that he also really didn't care about reputation and made sure grandma was given justice.. 

 

It was after GTY came back to help her handle the aftermath of the poisoning that ML realized that she is not alone anymore. And that like grandma, GTY will always be her rock, giving her support, protecting her. I think it was because of this realization she finally opened up to him later.

[selen4ever]

33 minutes ago, Serena H. said:

I believe because she's the oldest

Strange. Usually the oldest child is suppose to know better and be the role model. And is therefore punished even more than the younger (immature) ones.

[leeza77]

10 minutes ago, selen4ever said:

Strange. Usually the oldest child is suppose to know better and be the role model. And is therefore punished even more than the younger (immature) ones.

Ha ha.. The eldest was born out of favourite concubine who specialise  seducing, coaxing, whiny, appeared weak and honest. 

[m0us3y]

@dancingbee I love them too. And while we weren't shown much of Shitou, I also loved that show flashed out XiaoTao being with ML from the very beginning. 

She was there when ML was the upright, ferocious little girl, she was there when ML mom died, she was there when ML then hide herself, showing the world only the unassuming, flawless sixth miss.

She was there when QH turned away, she was there when ML avenge the mom, she was there when ML became a Marchioness...

She was there when ML was at her best, and at her worst. 

 

And I also love how ML treats me more like a sister than a maidservant. Holding her hand during her younger days, holding her hand when she successfully avenge for her mom and found peace again...

Also whatever good food she gets, she also save a share do XiaoTao...

It's a very heartwarming relationship. 

 

Even GTY was saying they are not like master-servant like others. Always eating and sharing food with each other! 

[matrim]

31 minutes ago, dito said:

 

Yes ....deserted was also one of the words.....I was taking it literally...rebellion...deserter.

Another translator was kind of saying... walking the world alone or facing the world alone....which makes sense now that you've explained it. 

God, this language is too difficult.....so many different meanings of a word depending upon the context its used in.

Well, as the novel setting is ancient China (no particular dynasty, but the author says the customs are mostly of Ming and Qing Dynasty), the language used has many classical Chinese elements. Probably that's why Google or Bing translation sometimes doesn't make sense. Classical Chinese is rather difficult to translate, compared with modern Mandarin.

[mingerling]

what is old madam wang saying to the empress dowager here? im assuming its about auntie kangs death

https://www.weibo.com/tv/v/Hf9ewxiSc?fid=1034:4336103566859820

[m0us3y]

1 hour ago, Serena H. said:

I believe because she's the oldest

If we go by that theory, SH should believe the main wife over CL then?

Or SH picked and chooses whatever attributes he wants? Ie the eldest daughter of a concubine? 

 

Also there were few scenes where SH admittedly said that ML is the most sensible among the lot, never giving him any trouble. If so, why not believe her words? 

 

If we take another perspective and said because Molan played the "pity card" by "admitting" to her mistakes for failing to stop the sis, while RL was basically talking back all the way, why was ML who did not say a word until asked multiple times punished the same way as RL?

[matrim]

16 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

@dancingbee I love them too. And while we weren't shown much of Shitou, I also loved that show flashed out XiaoTao being with ML from the very beginning. 

She was there when ML was the upright, ferocious little girl, she was there when ML mom died, she was there when ML then hide herself, showing the world only the unassuming, flawless sixth miss.

She was there when QH turned away, she was there when ML avenge the mom, she was there when ML became a Marchioness...

She was there when ML was at her best, and at her worst. 

 

And I also love how ML treats me more like a sister than a maidservant. Holding her hand during her younger days, holding her hand when she successfully avenge for her mom and found peace again...

Also whatever good food she gets, she also save a share do XiaoTao...

It's a very heartwarming relationship. 

 

Even GTY was saying they are not like master-servant like others. Always eating and sharing food with each other! 

Spoiler

Haha, one epilogue of the novel is about the happy life of Shitou and Xiao Tao after their marriage. Xiao Tao remains her innocent and care-free personality and leaves all the household managing to her sister-in-law, Che Sanniang. When Che Sanniang asks Xiao Tao what would she do once I grow old, Xiao Tao says innocently that she will return to ML's household and serves her again, as Fang Momo did to Grandma. 

 

15 minutes ago, mingerling said:

what is old madam wang saying to the empress dowager here? im assuming its about auntie kangs death

https://www.weibo.com/tv/v/Hf9ewxiSc?fid=1034:4336103566859820

Spoiler

She says GTY just killed Aunt Kang with his sword and she would never see her daughter again.