[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否？知否？应是绿肥红瘦

[UnniSarah]

@dancingbee 

Wicked woman of all 

1. Stepmother

2. Auntie Kang

3. Concubine Lin 

4. Minniang

5.ED

6. EC 

 

[tinast]

21 minutes ago, bulubulu said:

Any idea whats going on there?

I think GTY is about to wear his outer cloth with XT help.

But ML get jealous

Just my guess

[dito]

27 minutes ago, bulubulu said:

Any idea whats going on there?

 

ML is angry at GTY. GTY is happy she's angry at him and seems to be jealous....which doubles his happiness.

I think maybe coz of fengxian, the concubine his aunt dumped on them. Maybe Fengxian thought her chance came, now that ML is taking care of the baby...and keeps coming around GTY's study.

GTY is happy because he says everyday he has felt jealous about QH...now its her turn. ML says why do keep bringing him up. Then when he asks Xiaotao to help him with his over coat.....ML orders XT not to help him. And tells him you have so many women in your yard go ask them to help you dress. Why are you asking my girls to help you. Then she calls shitou to help GTY with his coat

 

And from the other preview......I can guess how Kang aunt got free to attack ML. The maid attending to her during her incarceration in the Sheng house was Concubine Lin's head maid....maybe she helped her escape.  

[bulubulu]

23 minutes ago, tinast said:

I think GTY is about to wear his outer cloth with XT help.

But ML get jealous

Just my guess

Thank you 

 

19 minutes ago, dito said:

 

ML is angry at GTY. GTY is happy she's angry at him and seems to be jealous....which doubles his happiness.

I think maybe coz of fengxian, the concubine his aunt dumped on them. Maybe Fengxian thought her chance came, now that ML is taking care of the baby...and keeps coming around GTY's study.

GTY is happy because he says everyday he has felt jealous about QH...now its her turn. ML says why do keep bringing him up. Then when he asks Xiaotao to help him with his over coat.....ML orders XT not to help him. And tells him you have so many women in your yard go ask them to help you dress. Why are you asking my girls to help you. Then she calls shitou to help GTY with his coat

 

And from the other preview......I can guess how Kang aunt got free to attack ML. The maid attending to her during her incarceration in the Sheng house was Concubine Lin's head maid....maybe she helped her escape.  

Thank you  i actually havent keep with with the recent eps and recent previous, i only see the previous and spoliers from here. Im catching up soon. Thanks for the  info.

 

And Happy Chinese New Years guyss. Wish everyone good health 

[minglan1]

27 minutes ago, dito said:

 

ML is angry at GTY. GTY is happy she's angry at him and seems to be jealous....which doubles his happiness.

I think maybe coz of fengxian, the concubine his aunt dumped on them. Maybe Fengxian thought her chance came, now that ML is taking care of the baby...and keeps coming around GTY's study.

GTY is happy because he says everyday he has felt jealous about QH...now its her turn. ML says why do keep bringing him up. Then when he asks Xiaotao to help him with his over coat.....ML orders XT not to help him. And tells him you have so many women in your yard go ask them to help you dress. Why are you asking my girls to help you. Then she calls shitou to help GTY with his coat

 

And from the other preview......I can guess how Kang aunt got free to attack ML. The maid attending to her during her incarceration in the Sheng house was Concubine Lin's head maid....maybe she helped her escape.  

Thank you.GTY finally gets his heart's  desire...jealous ML.

[linhlinh111]

@Golden Flower There are 2 types of audiences watching these drama:

 

Type 1: Those who are here for the romance between the 2 main leads. They support the main couple's actions in every way possible, whether it's right or wrong, logical or unreasonable. They are fond of the bold and cunning methods. They consider anyone who may bring harm to the main couple as villains and hope for them to disappear ASAP. They most of the time do not care about historical facts and judge characters based on modern standards. They usually lash out at anyone who stands in the main couple's way and feel satisfied seeing their downfall.

 

Type 2: Those who are here for the story. They may or may not be very interested in the main couple. They don't focus on the main couple but see them as a part of a bigger picture. They are more interested in world-building rather than romantic development. They are interested in feudal social etiquette and analyze characters and events based on the context of the era.

 

The value that people honor are very different in the past. There are things that are considered okay, even noble at the time are unacceptable or ridiculous or stupid from a modern's POV. There are special details that are very strange to foreign viewers and they couldn't know unless they are frequent with Chinese history (watch a few period drama is not enough since it is never explained carefully in the movies. Chinese people study that in literature and history classes). Thus it is sometimes very hard to explain why they do what they do, and why what they do is totally acceptable, and why sometimes our main couple, albeit seem right, are actually standing on the wrong side of the rules. 

 

The controversy is, this is the story of a feudal era. However, our main couple have more modern and open-minded personalities. The drama is trying to emphasize how our main couple are different and more advanced than the usual norm. Thus it is totally okay to support our main couple breaking the norm, since this is their strong points. But it is unfair to expect the same from other characters bc when everyone's special, no one is. They are characters born and raised under specific context, and they will act accordingly.

 

That's why these 2 types of audiences will keep fighting and can never agree with each other. No one is either right or wrong. They are just using different perspectives.

[pralee]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Did Aunty Kang died after she tried to kill Minglan and her baby?

 

 

 BTS from epi 35

 

Happy Camp preview.  It looks like the cast are having fun.  

 

[frenchfan]

5 hours ago, nichiwoohee said:

 

My original comment are sequences from my comment how relieved I am that there is still a family who would risk everything for their daughter. Duke ying might be mightier then general shen, but if ber daughter were to be divorced or separated, it will put a dent on his family name. But he didnt care and for that I applause. Sh is still the father in law, who hl’s husband should respect, he could have mentioned how skinny or unhappy hl is, for her husband to pay more attention to her, but he wont, again because he’s bound by all the things you mention. If every evil characters so far could afford being nosy, I’m sure a little talk to his son in law wont hurt, if he really cares for her that is.

 

It’s inevitable for people to find certain characters as evil or stupid and ignite discussion, if we dont judge the characters based on what they potray, might as well watch documentaries, sit back and learn some history

Oh noooooooooooo, how come the Linniang's maid is still alive when the others have been killed or exiled?

[frenchfan]

14 hours ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

Anyone got any good recap's for me of the last like 9 page's... 

 

Anything good happen. 

Well lots of happenings.  You have to watch the episodes to catch up dear   On top of Auntie Kang and evil stepmom, now we have the power hungry Empress Dowager, her spy (and niece) who is the royal consort to the current emperor who started to show their true colours.  General Shen's concubine (late wife's sister) tried to stop the royal doctor from assisting the birth and ML has to weild a sword to get him from the concubine's house........to the Empress asking for royal pardon from the emperor for her brother, General Shen (actually this was ML's idea) thereby thwarting the ED's plan.  Lots of stuff unfolding.....and the evil stepmom is losing her cool now that ML is pregnant.  

[watchumlots]

What THE - WHAT THE is going on?  

 

Swords!  Eunuch slapping-the-crap outta that whiny girl!  Some queen-lady! 

 

Got no idea who did what to whom and why... need subs for Ep 60-61.  

 

Or a good summary...

[watchumlots]

@frenchfan:  OK, that helps.  Was wondering who was stopping the Dr, of course we know why, so someone will die in childbirth.  

 

Thought it was kinda slimy of that consort to have two faces - talking all sweet, but nasty, with the emperor, then slipping msgs to the Old Empress.  

 

Palaces are viper pits filled with people that eat their own.  

 

 

[Golden Flower]

@linhlinh111 I do understand and got the points you mentioned since over 2 weeks ago. Not sure you noticed but I stopped commenting on any characters or any illogical scenes even though I saw some posts arguing over yours, @matrim and @gleek49 and others talking about characters and plots. I haven't posted anything for a week even if I read most of the posts here. 

 

I have never argued that SH is a great father or perfect person with great moralities.  My point has always been him and other characters I mentioned before being grey but not totally evil (unlike Aunty Kang). My intention was to point out he is not a total jerk of a father towards ML and not completely biased towards CL's children like some of you're saying.  Yes, he is not as smart as ML and grandma and a bit ignorant in things relating to women's scheming and maintaining backyard peacefulness. It was mentioned by grandma a couple of times for SH's poor ability in managing his backyard and we have been shown many times SH asking suggestions from grandma about his family issues. Every viewers should know by now that SH cares the most about his reputation/ Sheng's family reputation in pubic (in the eyes of outsiders), his officership smooth sailing and not wanting to make any problem bigger to trigger public interest! His punishments (including severity) towards his children, reactions and non-reactions are always related to his reputation, family's reputation in public and his position as head of household (father).  
We also need to remember SH didn't know about schemes of CL and Molan  like viewers and he was being blinded by their manipulations and lies. Being raised in a culture and country where beating and slapping children till they're late teens, early 20s or even married with kids if they talked back to their parents or not listening to their parents' decision/ teaching, I could understand SH's slapping towards ML though I personally do not agree with his action. 

 

16 hours ago, minglan1 said:

About SH he didn't treat all children same.To do that isn't a crime but he willfully neglected Rulan and ML.

RL had a sharp tongue so it can be taken as s reason but there was no justification provided for treating ML

so since childhood.

He used ML's logic to be saved from emperor's wrath,he tries to sacrifice her to be married to count Liang's son / GTY to save his position. He didn't punish Molan severely for trying to enter the men's poetry enclosure during the polo match or trying to harm her face and ruin marriage prospects.

He mentioned about killing Rulan for having an affair but only punished Molan to kneel at the ancestral hall.

He has specifically tried to not dish out harsh punishment to her.He even berated ML for coming home with fanfare post marriage.None in the family were displeased about the issues except  Molan and Aunt Kang because the couple had been courteous and polite.

In contrast Grandma even though favored ML she tried to help with regard to Rulan, Hulan's in-law woes.She was also gentle and polite to changbei's bride. 

I don't know how it is in the book but in the drama SH only paid some attention to ML's qualities when tutor Momo called out his bias.

I used "uneducated" as a general term compared to CL, did not intend to mean she couldn't read or write at all. I guess I should have used not talented in literary instead. My bad...my apology! 

What do you mean by grandma tried to help with RL? I don't remember any serious situation where grandma helped RL. Grandma wasn't present when SH was trying to strangle RL. She is the grandma of all the children and she shouldn't be biased but she was to ML and HL (she gave a lot of dowries to both of them especially more to ML since she raised them). I'm pretty sure she gives a couple to RL though it wasn't shown. However, Grandma has never shown any interest or care for Molan and CF as they're CL's children. CB, ML and RL are children of Daniang who has big dowry from Wang family as well as Wang family as support. ML has grandma's support and honors and properties being raised by her. So, isn't it normal for SH to think that Molan, shu daughter raised by concubine, was being the most disadvantaged among all his children (before he found out about lies of CL and Molan)?

I ONLY said SH was being fair to all his children for their marriage consideration and education.  

Black highlight, he didn't know about this since ML only mentioned it later when Molan tried to harm her face. ML also didn't tell SH about Molan talking to Liang Han alone though in public during first polo match while Molan reported to him about ML's playing with QH in the pretense of hurting ML and Sheng family's reputation. Imo, he did punish Molan appropriately: hitting her hands 20 times, making her kneel for three days or more in ancestral temple (not clear on exact days) and confining her at home for three months, for hurting ML's face to revenge ML's prior deed of throwing her with soil to prevent her from going to men's only poetry gathering (ML's explanation during the scene). How much harsher he could punish? He wouldn't beat any of his daughter on their body as unmarried girls from good official family cannot have scars on their body. Please keep in mind Molan's hurting ML is within the family not known to public. He only hit ML 3 times and RL total 5 times on their hands and made them kneel three days at the temple (actually 2 hits on RL and kneeling 2 more days were added later after she talked back to him and tried to hit Molan in front of parents) when they fell in front of Liang mama and Liang Han. This is the punishment for situation where their bad behavior was seen by outsiders and he didn't know Molan was the actual instigator. From these two situations, we can compare his punishments were relaxed towards Molan or not. 

Red highlight, I already mentioned about this in my first SH's post. Again, Rulan's case involved emperor and her meeting with the lover was seen by husband to be GTY which is way more serious for SH's consideration while Molan was caught by him and Sheng family servants who were owned by him (they signed permanent slavery bonds) without involving any outsiders except the lover LH himself. By the time SH found out CL spread the rumor of LH carrying Molan in public, she was already kneeling at the ancestral temple and CL became his focus instead. Also, RL's case being second similar accident after Molan's, he would definitely be angrier!

Just for fun: my grandpa was angrier at my second aunt who eloped and didn't talk to her or accept her back as his daughter till he died though she is the second daughter eloped. He talked to the first daughter and son-in-law who also eloped after a few years. It is not because he favors the first daughter more but because he warned other daughters many times after first aunt's elopement and second aunt still eloped with the guy he didn't approve of!!!    

 

@nichiwoohee I never said that people cannot discuss or express their opinions. I also never mentioned characters shouldn't be called whatever posters wanted to call them or told viewers to stop calling them evil or stupid. I just said I wanted to point out perspectives from being in characters' shoes as over two weeks, I saw some posters misunderstanding some information, not getting full picture or a little bit too harsh/ biased on some characters as they aren't being good enough in their roles as we would like to see them in our modern eyes (eg. SH as a father to ML).  I'm just discussing my opinion constructively by quoting scenes and events from the drama and adding explanations of officials' rank. I even stopped comparing characters from drama with those of the novel as drama changed and added a lot of things. All the things I mentioned about SH are from the drama. I didn't think that any of my posts were offensive towards any posters here and I'm not sure why you're being a bit negative towards my posts saying I'm policing people and your last post sounds like I'm not allowing viewers to discuss their opinions and such which is totally untrue.    

 

@gleek49 I'm becoming like you when you defended QH's wife character...hahaha and I'm really have to stop commenting about SH and other characters' evilness discussions    

 

[mooose]

7 hours ago, leeza77 said:

My vote:

1. Auntie Kang (ep 59, ML told stepmom, at 3 person died in her household

2. Linniang - killed ml's mother

3. Stepmom-greed/intent to kill ml

4. Manniang 

5. Ed

6.  Emperor' s consort

 

I would rank on the basis of motivation/intent

 

Top 3 and 6 actually care for their children. Yes, they are largely motivated by greed but also to benefit their kids.

 

ED is a power player but still shows glimpses of compassion, she's not pure evil. In terms of killings, she would probably have 'offed' more people than Aunty Kang ( the Emperor had only one son...)

 

The only pure evil is Manniang. She sees people only as tools. Devoid of feeling even for her own kids. Willing to betray and kill for no real benefit.

[frenchfan]

19 minutes ago, watchumlots said:

@frenchfan:  OK, that helps.  Was wondering who was stopping the Dr, of course we know why, so someone will die in childbirth.  

 

Thought it was kinda slimy of that consort to have two faces - talking all sweet, but nasty, with the emperor, then slipping msgs to the Old Empress.  

 

Palaces are viper pits filled with people that eat their own.  

 

 

Thank goodness Madame Zhang survived the childbirth as the royal doctor came on time but no thanks to Chao concubine and her brother.  Which was why I had no pity for her when she got slapped 50 times by the eunuch.  

 

The royal consort - GUIFEI is a nasty piece.  I didn't like the way she whined - reminded me too much of Linniang and Manniang.  Only a man could not see through her nastiness.   

 

The Empress Dowager is getting frustrated as the empress managed to thwart her plan with the emperor when she went to begged the emperor for royal pardon in plain clothes and even managed to save the situation between the Shen household and the Zhang household by asking for pardon using the pearl from her crown.  

[Golden Flower]

16 minutes ago, frenchfan said:

Well lots of happenings.  You have to watch the episodes to catch up dear   On top of Auntie Kang and evil stepmom, now we have the power hungry Empress Dowager, her spy (and niece) who is the royal consort to the current emperor who started to show their true colours.  

I don't think royal consort is the niece of ED (I'm pretty sure it wasn't mentioned) though it is true she is being ED spy and helping her by getting words into emperors' head to cause discord between him and his trusted aides, especially GTY. It was mentioned that she was from same place Youzhou as emperor/ empress and not having maiden family backup. 

 

@gleek49 @leeza77 @bulubuluI specifically mentioned FSF was doing a good job in this drama and the most suitable for married couple scenes with ZLY. He did great for scenes related to his father's dying/ dead, his confrontation scene with MN and most scenes with ML. I just think that there are a few scenes where he seems like a little over-acting and being uneasy with his mustache.

Spoiler

My comment about agreeing somewhat of FSF not being a great actor was about his acting in other dramas and movies as none of his other dramas from various genres as well as none of his main lead characters gained my interest and I dropped pretty much all of them at different time point of each show. Well, For a lot of popular Asian actors, being popular doesn't equate to having great acting skills and having ability to emote different characters. Again, I'm not his anti-fan. Just my opinion which a lot of Chinese  movie critics and netizens concur. 

 

[minglan1]

52 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

 

I used "uneducated" as a general term compared to CL, did not intend to mean she couldn't read or write at all. I guess I should have used not talented in literary instead. My bad...my apology! 

What do you mean by grandma tried to help with RL? I don't remember any serious situation where grandma helped RL. Grandma wasn't present when SH was trying to strangle RL. She is the grandma of all the children and she shouldn't be biased but she was to ML and HL (she gave a lot of dowries to both of them especially more to ML since she raised them). I'm pretty sure she gives a couple to RL though it wasn't shown. However, Grandma has never shown any interest or care for Molan and CF as they're CL's children. CB, ML and RL are children of Daniang who has big dowry from Wang family as well as Wang family as support. ML has grandma's support and honors and properties being raised by her. So, isn't it normal for SH to think that Molan, shu daughter raised by concubine, was being the most disadvantaged among all his children (before he found out about lies of CL and Molan)?

I ONLY said SH was being fair to all his children for their marriage consideration and education.  

Black highlight, he didn't know about this since ML only mentioned it later when Molan tried to harm her face. ML also didn't tell SH about Molan talking to Liang Han alone though in public during first polo match while Molan reported to him about ML's playing with QH in the pretense of hurting ML and Sheng family's reputation. Imo, he did punish Molan appropriately: hitting her hands 20 times, making her kneel for three days or more in ancestral temple (not clear on exact days) and confining her at home for three months, for hurting ML's face to revenge ML's prior deed of throwing her with soil to prevent her from going to men's only poetry gathering (ML's explanation during the scene). How much harsher he could punish? He wouldn't beat any of his daughter on their body as unmarried girls from good official family cannot have scars on their body. Please keep in mind Molan's hurting ML is within the family not known to public. He only hit ML 3 times and RL total 5 times on their hands and made them kneel three days at the temple (actually 2 hits on RL and kneeling 2 more days were added later after she talked back to him and tried to hit Molan in front of parents) when they fell in front of Liang mama and Liang Han. This is the punishment for situation where their bad behavior was seen by outsiders and he didn't know Molan was the actual instigator. From these two situations, we can compare his punishments were relaxed towards Molan or not. 

Red highlight, I already mentioned about this in my first SH's post. Again, Rulan's case involved emperor and her meeting with the lover was seen by husband to be GTY which is way more serious for SH's consideration while Molan was caught by him and Sheng family servants who were owned by him (they signed permanent slavery bonds) without involving any outsiders except the lover LH himself. By the time SH found out CL spread the rumor of LH carrying Molan in public, she was already kneeling at the ancestral temple and CL became his focus instead. Also, RL's case being second similar accident after Molan's, he would definitely be angrier!

Just for fun: my grandpa was angrier at my second aunt who eloped and didn't talk to her or accept her back as his daughter till he died though she is the second daughter eloped. He talked to the first daughter and son-in-law who also eloped after a few years. It is not because he favors the first daughter more but because he warned other daughters many times after first aunt's elopement and second aunt still eloped with the guy he didn't approve of!!!    

 

 

 

 

 

Grandma mentioned to RL's mom about speaking to her daughter's family elders so that her MIL doesn't bully her.I am just mentioning a snippet of the conversation.It occured when the three girls visited their home post marriage.

 

Grandma also mentioned about discord at home with regard to changfeng's marriage.She mentioned to ML to visit her maternal home to calm matters.This to was a post marriage incident.

This also highlights Grandma might play favorite with ML but she still tries to practise fairness for all her grandchildren.

Each viewer has a perspective of viewing characters.Inspite of ShengHong being bound by the thoughts,customs of the bygone era his attitude was of neglect towards ML.

I can find a justification for Daninang ,CL to do it but the drama didn't  provide one for him.It made it out that he was  uncaring for her given the fact that she was a motherless child who took care not to put her father in a spot.

 

When little ML ran from pillar to post to get help with her mother's delivery and consequently fell ill we weren't shown any concern from the father.He wanted to get over with the unpleasant incident fast and get on with life.

Molan has tried to do bodily harm to ruin ML's marriage  prospects.It was heartless and a very cruel gesture which could have had severe repercussions for ML.It needed a severe reprimand not a harmless 3 month stay at home dictat where she could live carefree and in luxury.

 

As I have mentioned before I am not looking at him in combination of his character sketch in the book.It is strictly based on onscreen potrayal..Let's agree to disagree since we are looking at the character on different parameters.

It is getting a tad bit boring to get stuck on Shen Hong so I won't respond any further on this.

 

 

[Golden Flower]

On 2/2/2019 at 11:37 PM, purplefall94 said:

I was always wondering how women can become unbearable psychos like Maniang, Big Madam, and Aunty Kang. I still don't understand Maniang (maybe she's a natural psycho lol) but think I can sympathize a little bit with Big Madam and Aunty Kang here. Failure to receive care and love from their husband obviously contributes greatly to their psycho characteristics and directly influences their "everyone has wronged me" view. But this definitely shouldn't be the excuse for them to project their unhappiness to everyone around them. It's just so wrong and so... pathetic.

 

The actress who plays Big Madam did her role great justice in the raining scene at the worshipping room. I can feel her bitterness, disillusionment, dispair and discontent with her marriage. I mean she's definitely to blame for her wicked business, she shouldn't bottle up her emotions for all those year, put on the fake virtuous mask and eventually turn herself into a monster. But I can't help wonder whether we would have been like her if we were in her shoes. Maybe this is why I feel her evilness is more "reasonable" compared to that of Aunt Kang who hates just anyone because they won't let her have her way.

Aunty Kang's character in the drama is the worst now as she will get a couple of MN's plots instead of MN. 

Did anyone who read the novel remember whether Aunty Kang also ask her shu daughter Zhao Er to harm herself a few times and eventually kill herself in the novel? I remembered she forced Zhao Er to ML to accept as concubine but forgot the details after.

[Suzzy San]

4 hours ago, leeza77 said:

 our ml has grown up.. 

https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4336110866439780

I know right, she has grown up

 

4 hours ago, dito said:

 

He asked her why she didn't even write to him when such a big thing happened at her house. ML said it happened too fast and she didn't think about it. GTY says no, its because you didn't believe I'd come.....that I'd rush back to protect you. You didn't trust me to take care of this problem for you. You don't have faith in me......you don't believe that I'll spare nothing to protect you. 

Omg.. This is so cheesy.. Wow as expected from GTY, I love this kind of conversation though.. 

[watchumlots]

I say PO-TAY-TOE, you say PO-TAH-TOE!

 

WHO CARES if this character is bad/good/worse than other characters?  There is enough evil-creep in all of these characters, some are so incredibly deficient in the brain department, others in the 'action' department.  

 

I am so lovin' the ride!   

 

Love the sets, the costumes, the intrigue, the family drama, women constantly gossiping and trying to kill each other with words and schemes, and riding around in those palanquins with an entourage while wearing fancy silk gowns and waving a hankie or fan!

[UnniSarah]

I love everyone list on WICKEDEST WOMAN IN TSOML. I choose #1 GTY Stepmom because she is the master mind behind it all. She is so wicked because NO ONE knows her wicked intentions. Not even her in laws.  Her FITH  Sister IN LAW is clueless but Hee Sixth Sister In Law can see right through her except for the intent of murder. 

HERE ISE MY PROOF ENJOY 

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

She is finally showing her true colors. She can’t control it anyone .

 

 

 

 I am quite confused by Little Madam Qi mais. Is she scared of her ,does she cares for her and isn’t she scared she will die for helping her cause all these crazy schemes including murder.