[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否？知否？应是绿肥红瘦

[tomo74]

42 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

You must remember ml was a master og disguise. Even grandma said that she was excellent in controlling her composure. Thus, she may just concealher real feeling knowing that there is nothing she can do. 

Or that^ or.... she might given up the idea of getting married, she mention it a few times to people (grandma, da niang, hualan, sis in law), she doesn't need to get married, she just want to stay with grandma (and her loyal servants) live peacefully.

I really want to see the episode where ML's looks so happy on her wedding day, what makes her so happy, don't trust trailer, most of the time, it misleads us

[darkphoenix123]

I kinda pity Sheng Hong. Finding out about Rulan & her sweetheart so soon after the thing with Molan...he will be having deja vu tomorrow 

[cherubstomato]

4 minutes ago, darkphoenix123 said:

I kinda pity Sheng Hong. Finding out about Rulan & her sweetheart so soon after the thing with Molan...he will be having deja vu tomorrow 

That’s why CB reaction was funny just as Sheng Hong screaming finding Molan, but I wouldn’t say he was overreacting. Like damn can’t this family get a break.  But at least this guy is someone Sheng Hong is fond of, just would need time getting Big Madam approval.

[zenya22]

1 hour ago, linhlinh111 said:

I'm not sure but I think the drama never showed how Grandma negotiated for the marriage. In which part was the dowry thing mentioned?

@linhlinh111She did not actually say "dowry". At first granny said that Molan should be beaten to death and their reputation will be recovered as a "strict family", then when the sisters in law went to inform Molan, she said then 2 people will die and said grandma is the daughter of a marquis and has some say in the palace, and the girls informed granny at which point Big Madam went hysterical. Grandma then said "stop crying" at 39:19 "children's debts, if I can't clear it, I can't die". At 18:04 argument between Hong and Linniang, where Hong said that the Liangs are not accepting Molan, Linniang said give them a dowry. Hong asked with what dowry, they are the wealthiest family in all of Bianjian, even if you give them all the property and shops that I gave you that will not even cover one bit of it. Linniang said, but her legal mother and grandmother can contribute.....and Hong lost it. So, from those conversations, I presumed that grandma has to have something to clear the debts.

 

Maybe I am wrong. 

[ForgottenSoulx]

7 minutes ago, zenya22 said:

@linhlinh111She did not actually say "dowry". At first granny said that Molan should be beaten to death and their reputation will be recovered as a "strict family", then when the sisters in law went to inform Molan, she said then 2 people will die and said grandma is the daughter of a marquis and has some say in the palace, and the girls informed granny at which point Big Madam went hysterical. Grandma then said "stop crying" at 39:19 "children's debts, if I can't clear it, I can't die". At 18:04 argument between Hong and Linniang, where Hong said that the Liangs are not accepting Molan, Linniang said give them a dowry. Hong asked with what dowry, they are the wealthiest family in all of Bianjian, even if you give them all the property and shops that I gave you that will not even cover one bit of it. Linniang said, but her legal mother and grandmother can contribute.....and Hong lost it. So, from those conversations, I presumed that grandma has to have something to clear the debts.

 

Maybe I am wrong. 

 

I dont think Grandma used money must have just been her powerful word's that family is already rich i dont think money would have stopped her going after ML.

[hello210]

30 minutes ago, darkphoenix123 said:

I kinda pity Sheng Hong. Finding out about Rulan & her sweetheart so soon after the thing with Molan...he will be having deja vu tomorrow 

Just like everyone else, Sheng Hong is a product of his experiences and it’s a pity he let the past determine how his household was run only realizing too late the lessons grandma tried to teach him. In trying to not repeat the wrong done to him and his mother in the past, he messed up the order of his household and actually repeated his father’s mistake of allowing his concubine to step over the main wife (it’s hard to imagine grandma going through something similar to Daniang, but with a more dignified personality). 

                 I kinda pity both Sheng Hong and Daniang but also find their interactions as a couple comical sometimes. Sheng Hong’s expressions when he tries to pacify Daniang with empty words, gives up and starts grumbling is funny. Or when Daniang tries to be nice but isn’t doing it right. That one bedroom scene where we actually see her husband come to her bed instead of getting his foot washed and she looked so excited but he was just trying to get her to take Molan/ML to MadamnWu’s function. The scene about GTY’s proposal and I know it’s supposed to be a solemn time with Molan’s marriage but I busted out laughing at their fake smiles when they had to go out and face the guests. 

[zenya22]

22 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

I dont think Grandma used money must have just been her powerful word's that family is already rich i dont think money would have stopped her going after ML.

I just thought that women marrying at that time will have dowry to bring to the marriage, I was just following Sheng Hong and Linniang's logic. For them to accept give big dowry. It is not about the money but about family honor. But since dowry was not really mentioned, it could have been something else other than dowry that granny offered tit for tat, since it was a negotiation. But what granny negotiated with, is unknown or not said.

[Golden Flower]

On 1/13/2019 at 9:21 AM, xxLynnxx said:

 

 

This is the full trailer others and I have been mentioning regards to fight(s) of GTY and ML after marriage and QH/ML meeting. Since the scenes are from various events in different orders, it is misgiving. The woman GTY is seen drinking with is the famous entertainer of one of the famous brothels (she was one of two women seen accompanying GTY at the first Polo match, the one who suggested Yanran to GTY for having nice temperament ). I do not think ML was there or seen him drinking with that entertainer. 

[hello210]

31 minutes ago, zenya22 said:

@linhlinh111She did not actually say "dowry". At first granny said that Molan should be beaten to death and their reputation will be recovered as a "strict family", then when the sisters in law went to inform Molan, she said then 2 people will die and said grandma is the daughter of a marquis and has some say in the palace, and the girls informed granny at which point Big Madam went hysterical. Grandma then said "stop crying" at 39:19 "children's debts, if I can't clear it, I can't die". At 18:04 argument between Hong and Linniang, where Hong said that the Liangs are not accepting Molan, Linniang said give them a dowry. Hong asked with what dowry, they are the wealthiest family in all of Bianjian, even if you give them all the property and shops that I gave you that will not even cover one bit of it. Linniang said, but her legal mother and grandmother can contribute.....and Hong lost it. So, from those conversations, I presumed that grandma has to have something to clear the debts.

 

Maybe I am wrong. 

I may be wrong but I think in the drama Madame Wu relented because by going over to the Liang’s, grandma was putting pride aside and loosing face since she’s actually very respected elder due to her background and reputation even though she married down.  I kind of got that from her statement where she said “I will stake this old face out there and make the trip”.  If an elder like grandma put aside her pride to make the request, it then puts Madame Wu in a position of being cruel if she were to reject? At least that’s what I’ve learned from my very traditional grandparents a long time ago. If it was anyone else, it wouldn’t have worked and money doesn’t matter since the Liangs are one of the richest families in town. 

[darkphoenix123]

29 minutes ago, hello210 said:

Just like everyone else, Sheng Hong is a product of his experiences and it’s a pity he let the past determine how his household was run only realizing too late the lessons grandma tried to teach him. In trying to not repeat the wrong done to him and his mother in the past, he messed up the order of his household and actually repeated his father’s mistake of allowing his concubine to step over the main wife (it’s hard to imagine grandma going through something similar to Daniang, but with a more dignified personality). 

                 I kinda pity both Sheng Hong and Daniang but also find their interactions as a couple comical sometimes. Sheng Hong’s expressions when he tries to pacify Daniang with empty words, gives up and starts grumbling is funny. Or when Daniang tries to be nice but isn’t doing it right. That one bedroom scene where we actually see her husband come to her bed instead of getting his foot washed and she looked so excited but he was just trying to get her to take Molan/ML to MadamnWu’s function. The scene about GTY’s proposal and I know it’s supposed to be a solemn time with Molan’s marriage but I busted out laughing at their fake smiles when they had to go out and face the guests. 

Those fake smiles were hilarious

9 minutes ago, zenya22 said:

I just thought that women marrying at that time will have dowry to bring to the marriage, I was just following Sheng Hong and Linniang's logic. For them to accept give big dowry. It is not about the money but about family honor. But since dowry was not really mentioned, it could have been something else other than dowry that granny offered tit for tat, since it was a negotiation. But what granny negotiated with, is unknown or not said.

I don’t think the ‘debt’ they mentioned was literal. It was more like she is doing her duty as a grandmother even when she doesn’t need to because she is the grandmother & to save the other 3 granddaughters. Grandma probably used one of her war strategems & convinced Mama Liang

[zenya22]

Episode 33: my fave scene was the conversation between Granny and ML when ML confessed that she planned everything, it gave me the chills and as well as made me cry. The actress playing the character of granny, forgive me I don't know her name, but she is masterful. Her intonation, her pitch and expressions are on point. I love her. 

[hello210]

34 minutes ago, zenya22 said:

I just thought that women marrying at that time will have dowry to bring to the marriage, I was just following Sheng Hong and Linniang's logic. For them to accept give big dowry. It is not about the money but about family honor. But since dowry was not really mentioned, it could have been something else other than dowry that granny offered tit for tat, since it was a negotiation. But what granny negotiated with, is unknown or not said.

Molan had a small dowry. I think she had what her mother gave her (farm land and shop) and maybe something from her father but only saw the one bracelet from Daniang. We don’t know of anything else. No great, but she didn’t go completely empty handed. I think that’s one of the things Liniang also miscalculated. As one of the richest families, they wouldn’t be able to come up with a dowry that would make the Liangs accept it which Sheng Hong knew and was trying to tell Liniang in between her rants. And at that point family honor had already went out the window.

[cherubstomato]

@hello210 My thoughts exactly. Big Madam reminded him to not have a solemn look because they are about to greet the guess. Hahaha His face was the best. 

I was satisfied with everything and all the people involved in the scheme of their punishments. However just disappointed that sheng hongs trusted aid didn’t get his retribution for accepting bribes from Lin before.

[Golden Flower]

7 hours ago, linhlinh111 said:

At least he fulfills his responsibility to his family well and he never bothers ML with his love anymore. No one could have done it better.

@linhlinh111 @artboxI agreed with everything you said about QH and GTY and you probably remember I have made comments similar to you. You guys worded better than me  For me, it is not about who ML ends up with or who deserves her better. They are two different individuals who met ML at different time in their life and in her life. However, l have issue with the drama making QH bother ML (seen in the new trailer) after her marriage to GTY as mentioned in my yesterday's post.

I applaud QH keeping his love and longing for ML in his heart till the end of his life. I never thought that his life was miserable for only loving ML as he had a career and family he raised.  Most marriage at that time was not based on love anyways. I also do not have issue with drama making QH's family proposing to ML before she got married (we will have to see whether he was too late since they already accepted GTY's betrothal gifts or grandma just rejected him). In the book, QH's family never proposed to ML, it was Rulan whom QH's mom was interested in for his second marriage. The idea was rejected by QH's mom later because of Molan's scandal. The drama has changed order and timing of events and scenes quite a lot). 

 

I think some of us have been forgetting time lapse in the drama since we have been watching it everyday. Since CB passing imperial exam, SH's detainment by emperor, Polo match, I would say time has passed at least two years at the time of rebellion. Before Polo game of QH and ML, HL wasn't pregnant yet (grandma invited He grandma to feel the pulse to help HL get pregnant) and her son is half a year old when Molan's scandal broke. According to the conversations, Molan's sneaking around with Liang's son has been going for at least half a month or longer). Since they changed the events and order of events so much in the drama, as well as starting age of characters are different from the book, we couldn't tell the exact age of character. From the look of child actors, CF and QH are similar age (may be CF a yr older), QH supposedly 2-3 years older than ML, CB 2 yrs older than CF, GTY 1-2 yr older than CB. ML just turned 15 and QH was 17-18 during imperial exam but he is currently 19-20. After GTY and ML got married, QH would have been 20-21. He is no longer 17 years old teenager but 21, and he should have already grown up mentally from his experience with Jiacheng princess's family. So, when he go and tell married ML that "he loved her more than GTY as he couldn't even sleep at nights from missing her," it is not logical for me. Also, like @hello210 mentioned, people at the era are more mature and lots of responsibilities before 20 as they marry and have kids around 15-16. 

For me, making QH as one of ML's suitors and first love would have been fine instead of trying to add a lot more scenes creating inconsistent character and cliche storyline in making and promoting QH as being second male lead just to have love triangle. 

 

@deslynn88 It was mentioned that CF (third son) was kneeling outside to beg for forgiveness of his mom and Molan's doing. The father also mentioned that he didn't beat Molan to death but instead punished her to kneel in ancestral hall due to CF's needing to take the imperial exam again in half a year. 

 

@ForgottenSoulxI rather not see QH scenes than drama writers making things cliche. To answer your Qs from earlier post, the second cousin (grandson of old first Sheng Madam in You Yeng from her daughter who later married to Pinlan instead) and Li scholar were omitted. 

 

 

[JoycceeDreamer]

Anyone know ahead what ML’s dowry was? So the things that GTY brought as betroth gifts...they stay with the Sheng family? Not knowledgeable about Chinese weddings. 

[Golden Flower]

2 hours ago, JoycceeDreamer said:

Anyone know ahead what ML’s dowry was? So the things that GTY brought as betroth gifts...they stay with the Sheng family? Not knowledgeable about Chinese weddings. 

I'm not sure it was mentioned in the book. Her dowry could have been less than Rulan and Hulan though even if grandma gave her some since her biological mom doesn't have any left for her except that one silver bangle. 

Spoiler

Rulan's dowry was mentioned. Wang Shi bought a big house for her and SH said that she could have bought a smaller one. The smaller house could have prevented Rulan's mom-in-law from smaller city living with them as Rulan has an excuse to say the place is very small.

Someone posted about GTY's gifts a few pages ago. Traditionally, for rich and honorable families like Sheng, they would give most of betrothal gifts (jewelries, properties, cloth and artifacts) back to ML as part of her dowry. They would probably keep the food. For poor family, they would have kept all the gifts as they're considered bride price. That's why I mentioned before that shu daughters will be first to be sold off as concubines for money by family if they're having difficulties i.e without giving them any dowry as well (may be just a few pieces of jewelry). ML's mom was bought by Daniang WS for money from her merchant family since the father was really sick even though she was di daughter and her father was educated.  

[hello210]

21 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

@linhlinh111 @artboxI agreed with everything you said about QH and GTY and you probably remember I have made comments similar to you. You guys worded better than me  For me, it is not about who ML ends up with or who deserves her better. They are two different individuals However, l have issue with the drama making QH bother ML (seen in the new trailer) after her marriage to GTY as mentioned in my yesterday's post.

I applaud QH keeping his love and longing for ML in his heart till the end of his life. I never thought that his life was miserable for only loving ML as he had a career and family he raised.  Most marriage at that time was not based on love anyways. I also do not have issue with drama making QH's family proposing to ML before she got married (we will have to see whether he was too late since they already accepted GTY's betrothal gifts or Sheng family rejected for being unsuccessful. In the book, QH's family never proposed to ML, it was Rulan whom QH's mom was interested in for his second marriage. The idea was rejected by QH's mom later because of Molan's scandal. The drama has changed order and timing of events and scenes quite a lot). 

 

I think some of us have been forgetting time lapse in the drama since we have been watching it everyday. Since CB passing imperial exam, SH's detainment by emperor, Polo match, I would say time has passed at least two years at the time of rebellion. Before Polo game of QH and ML, HL wasn't pregnant yet (grandma invited He grandma to feel the pulse to help HL get pregnant) and her son is half a year old when Molan's scandal broke. According to the conversations, Molan's sneaking around with Liang's son has been going for at least half a month or longer). Since they changed the events and order of events so much in the drama from the book, as well as starting age of characters are different from the book, we couldn't tell the exact age of character. From the look of child actors, CF and QH are similar age (may be CF a yr older), QH supposedly 2-3 years older than ML, CB 2 yrs older than CF, GTY 1-2 yr older than CB. ML just turned 15 and QH was 17-18 during imperial exam but he is currently 19-20. After GTY and ML got married, QH would have been 20-21. He is no longer 17 years old teenager but 21, he should have already grown up mentally from his experience with Jiacheng princess's family. So, when he go and tell married ML that "he loved her more than GTY as he couldn't even sleep at nights from missing her," it is not logical for me. Also, like @hello210 mentioned, people at the era are more mature and lots of responsibilities before 20 as they marry and have kids around 15-16. 

For me, making QH as one of ML's suitors and first love would have been fine instead of trying to add a lot more scenes creating inconsistent character and cliche storyline in making and promoting QH as being second male lead just to have love triangle. 

 

@Golden Flower I agree. I don’t mind that he will love ML forever in the novel since he was honorable, kept it to himself and moved on with career and family. But if the drama goes and has him tell ML that he loves her more than GTY and misses her after she gets married, that just turned him into the typical second lead who’s love went beyond the boundaries. Someone else mentioned QH being part of a faction against GTY & the new Emperor, so i’m hoping that’s not true and it doesn’t get turned into the “unobtainable love turned second lead short term vengeful” cliche. 

[darkphoenix123]

3 minutes ago, hello210 said:

@Golden Flower I agree. I don’t mind that he will love ML forever in the novel since he was honorable, kept it to himself and moved on with career and family. But if the drama goes and has him tell ML that he loves her more than GTY and misses her after she gets married, that just turned him into the typical second lead who’s love went from innocent to obsessive and very cliche. Someone else mentioned QH being part of a faction against GTY & the new Emperor, so i’m hoping that’s not true and it doesn’t get turned into the “unobtainable love turned second lead short term vengeful” cliche. 

I hope he doesn’t turn into an obsessive vengeful ex-lover guy either. As much as I think he is not right for ML I wanted him to grow from his obstacles and become someone better as a person. After reading the spoilers I gave up the hope that he will move & love his second wife but I really don’t want him to turn into a bad guy. That’s not progression but regression!

[sava2sava]

4 hours ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

Omg that reaction from them is hilarious. 

@ForgottenSoulx  Everytime I watch that clip I just crack up did you see the brother reaction upon telling his parents.. Watch it again and check out brother.. looks like he's checking to see if his ears was still attach to his head after seeing Dad almost choke and mom nearly feel off the bed.. It's halrious..

4 hours ago, zenya22 said:

The Liang family got plenty of bribe dowry from grandma to save Ming Lan from becoming their daughter in law. Molan might have thought that grandma's dowry was given for the Liang to accept her but that is the very issue that the countess will not ever let Molan forget and will throw in Molan's face, that grandma's dowry was not given for her but was given by grandma to save Ming Lan. The countess will forever blame Molan's disgraceful behavior as the cause of losing Ming Lan as her daugher in law. Molan will always be compared to the other daughters of nobility as more worthy and Molaer will regret ever becoming the daugher in law.  

 

The marriage negotiation between Countess Liang and Big Mama was so funny with the metaphors they used and the countess was not holding back her opinions about the disgraceful Molan and stated clearly her reasons for choosing Ming Lan.  

 

Countess: a daughter dog like her and you have not beaten her to death yet and came here to discuss marriage? 

 

Big Mama: but the 6th is a daughter of concubine and you like her because you are magnanimous and not petty (implication: you should be able to accept the 4th daughter of a concubine)

 

Countess: you have in your hand a pan full of poop and you beg me to accept?

4 hours ago, zenya22 said:

This conversation is a foreshadowing of what Molan the dog daughter who should have been beaten to death, pan of poop etc will go through at the Liang Manor. She will also be greeted by a pregnant woman whom she would have to accept as concubine the minute she enters the manor's door. As for the the Sheng house, good riddance!!  

No lavish wedding for her either, no one looks happy except for Linniang and the send off looks more like a funeral than a wedding send off 

 

Hello @zenya22  It's been a while..  Mdm Liang will forever be reminded of the dog poop she had to accept and losing face after she had been seen pampering Ming Lan.. She'll never let Molan have a peaceful life at her expence of loosing face.. Molan may think she had married up but in the end she still low on the totem pole.. She still lost out to Minglan.. I would have loved to see the look on her face seeing what kind of situation she has entered into.. Even the concubines child will rank higher then hers being that it's the first born from the scumbag.. Another thing I find hilarious that she laid up with him and he played her like a fiddle didn't even tell her about his mistress she would have to accept..   

 

58 minutes ago, zenya22 said:

I just thought that women marrying at that time will have dowry to bring to the marriage, I was just following Sheng Hong and Linniang's logic. For them to accept give big dowry. It is not about the money but about family honor. But since dowry was not really mentioned, it could have been something else other than dowry that granny offered tit for tat, since it was a negotiation. But what granny negotiated with, is unknown or not said.

@zenya22  It was Linniangs who suggested that old mdm give Molan a big dowry to bring with her.. CB told her no because ML is on her family linege and the old mdm belongings will go to her especially after learning it was her that spreaded such news and turned it into a scandal making him lose face.. Only thing Molan took with her was a piece of farmland and a shop of some sort.. She told Linniangs give the rest to brother because he would be needing it..

 

I thought Linniangs family suffered from a down fall I'm wondering where did she get all those deeds she had..

[Maria Brimstone]

@sava2sava The deeds that Linniang gave to MoLan are actually things that Sheng Hong gave to her as gifts. So actually it's all from the Sheng Family money.

 

At this point, I CBF about Ming Lan and GTY, I just want HuaLan to get justice. The only time I've cried so far in this drama was when she was talking about her kids to her mother. T^T