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[Current Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦

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2 hours ago, leeza77 said:
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Cb's expression when he caught rulan was epic.. Keep on saying aiya.. Ha ha. Pity him. Gty you are black belly. That was you best friend. How could you

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I cracked up at that!

Spoiler

GTY should’ve spared the poor guy and told him it was minglan he’s after :lol:

 

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10 hours ago, leeza77 said:

Zyl was not that popular during the filming of this drama. He gained his popularity through the soul town which was broadcasted after the filming of this drama. My answerwhy he took this role is why not??? The producer is Noon production one of the best production, the cast are zly who is known as the queen of rating, the script is excellent, the director is outstanding, the one who directed famously received drama NIF and love me if you dare and the drama is a guaranteed success. Who doesn't wany to involve on this big oustanding IP. And his character involved a lot of emotion which require a high degree of acting talent. It's a good exposure to him. Being called names by the audience is nothing to the actor. It show the his acting was a success the give a huge impact to the audience. 

 

Agree. ZYL wasn't famous back then and QH was the best role he could get his hands on, and I see no problems, he did a good job.

 

 

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1 hour ago, JoycceeDreamer said:

I just want to know what happened in the conversation between the Emperor, Prince Zhao, and GTY after the rebellion. Anyone want to enlighten us? 

Emperor knew GTY but Prince Zhao had no idea, he thought GTY was Bai Ye. So when the Emperor recognized him and called Er Lang directly, he and his son were a bit shocked. I felt they were actually a bit unease about it. They might even have a second thought about it. But GTY was really quick-witted. He talked with the emperor and took the opportunity to ask the emperor why he gave the order that he could not attend the official exam before 50 years old. A clever move to show Prince Zhao and his son why he ended up in the army with them. Then the Emperor told the Prince to treat GTY and the Gu Family well.

 

PS: the pages go too fast. My last check was at 70+, now is already 90+. Too many pages to catch up. Orz

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15 minutes ago, nnnju said:

Emperor knew GTY but Prince Zhao had no idea, he thought GTY was Bai Ye. So when the Emperor recognized him and called Er Lang directly, he and his son were a bit shocked. I felt they were actually a bit unease about it. They might even have a second thought about it. But GTY was really quick-witted. He talked with the emperor and took the opportunity to ask the emperor why he gave the order that he could not attend the official exam before 50 years old. A clever move to show Prince Zhao and his son why he ended up in the army with them. Then the Emperor told the Prince to treat GTY and the Gu Family well.

 

PS: the pages go too fast. My last check was at 70+, now is already 90+. Too many pages to catch up. Orz

 

I was thinking about that too... because since the Emperor punished GTY with the exam, I was thinking if he would even be able to assist the next emperor in line. What did the Emperor say to GTY? Anyone know? 

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1 hour ago, nichiwoohee said:

 

I cracked up at that!

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GTY should’ve spared the poor guy and told him it was minglan he’s after :lol:

 

I wonder how things would have gone if GTY did not trick anyone... if he in the beginning just asked for ML. Since the novel is different from the drama... it would be nice to see if grandma would leave it up to ML .. and if ML would have agreed to this marriage .. 

 

Even when CB told his parents about it ...

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I wonder if they were surprised because they don't want their daughter to marry GTY or they did? 

 

 

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I see many have posted that QH didn't understand ML, I think that's debatable.

 

First, QH never stated why he liked ML and viewers just assumed that he loved her bc he thought she was a kind-hearted innocent girl. Remember he grew up in a aristocrat household (with all its dark side, like Sheng family), he was sheltered so that he didn't encounter any significant hardships, which lead to his optimism, but it doesn't mean that he was blinded and couldn't see through people. On the contrary, I think he had good eyes in seeing people. Evidence: he never got swayed by Molan or any other girls with both beauty and status around him (he WAS the most wanted man, lots of temptation). I believe he set eyes on ML cuz he felt something different in her, he might not know everything about her right now, but he definitely got a general idea. Proof: later he knows everything and still loves her (and he's not surprised at all). So it's unfair to assume things about him that wasn't shown.

 

Second, some says he wasn't thinking about her safety when declaring his love for her. I disagree. Actually there were no actual danger ML has encountered from now came from QH. Tbh, before the things with princess Jiajing, there were no problems at all. Of course his mother was a cunning women, but aside from not accepting ML, she never did anything to her. His relationship with her was just a problem between the Sheng and Qi family and was never made official or public, so ML's reputation was not at real risk (as seen later it didn't affect her marriage potential). When she was actually in danger bc of princess Jiajing, he did what he had to do and gave her up, so I really didn't know what everyone is so stressed and criticizing about?

 

Based on effort alone, GTY can never compare to QH. Cuz he never suffers, sacrifices or risking that much for ML. And he gave her up in a situation where (everyone has to agree) there were no other way out (and please with GTY's solution, it was ridiculous and would place everyone in a greater danger). Unlike what most viewers think from the conversation between QH and GTY, I think QH did the right thing while GTY was being unreasonable and impulsive. After all GTY didn't get her fair and square either. QH just didn't figure out the right method, but he had good intentions. QH failed, doesn't mean he was all wrong, GTY succeeded, doesn't mean he was all right (in their relationships with ML). I have to say the author made it pretty easy for him in getting ML.

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6 hours ago, fra8 said:

Really? 

In the book he never had other women, even if one tried to push herself on him especially  during the fall out . ( if I got this right) But he was faithful.

 

 

That's good to know! I hope they stay faithful to the book then. 

 

6 hours ago, bulubulu said:

I dont think he went to look for another woman. I think he went to drink and a woman try to touch his hand but he moved away, no hugging. That's what i saw in the trailer. Same i hope the fight doesn't last long too. I dont even want to think about it, already feel hurt just by thinking.

 

6 hours ago, Lunkera said:

I doubt he will be unfaithful. It will just be an misunderstanding.

 

5 hours ago, dito said:

I think in the book....Hugging when drunk happened with ML.

In the book he had concubines in the Gu house too. But he never paid much attention to them. When he got married to ML he kind of promised her...he won't go to anyone else. He also told her to do what she wants with his previous concubines. Make them work or sell them off. When ML and GTY had a fight and started sleeping separately, these concubines and the other maids who wanted to climb the ranks started getting ideas. Maids from his step mom and his aunts, even maids from Da niang tried to take advantage of the quarrel between ML and GTY.  I don't know if I remember this correctly, but GTY got tired of all the women and forbade any female from coming into his study...

Trailers and previews are mostly misleading as they are not in sequence. So I'm not too worried about it. 

Went back to watch that trailer again...so the forehead kiss was MN that was before his imperial exam? Lol. That's misleading alright! 

:sweatingbullets:

I just hope he will stay by his words to be true to her (that's what he said at the beginning of the trailer right? I hope I didn't get that wrong too, with my limited understanding of Chinese!) :wacko:

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22 minutes ago, linhlinh111 said:

I see many have posted that QH didn't understand ML, I think that's debatable.

 

First, QH never stated why he liked ML and viewers just assumed that he loved her bc he thought she was a kind-hearted innocent girl. Remember he grew up in a aristocrat household (with all its dark side, like Sheng family), he was sheltered so that he didn't encounter any significant hardships, which lead to his optimism, but it doesn't mean that he was blinded and couldn't see through people. On the contrary, I think he had good eyes in seeing people. Evidence: he never got swayed by Molan or any other girls with both beauty and status around him (he WAS the most wanted man, lots of temptation). I believe he set eyes on ML cuz he felt something different in her, he might not know everything about her right now, but he definitely got a general idea. Proof: later he knows everything and still loves her (and he's not surprised at all). So it's unfair to assume things about him that wasn't shown.

 

Second, some says he wasn't thinking about her safety when declaring his love for her. I disagree. Actually there were no actual danger ML has encountered from now came from QH. Tbh, before the things with princess Jiajing, there were no problems at all. Of course his mother was a cunning women, but aside from not accepting ML, she never did anything to her. His relationship with her was just a problem between the Sheng and Qi family and was never made official or public, so ML's reputation was not at real risk (as seen later it didn't affect her marriage potential). When she was actually in danger bc of princess Jiajing, he did what he had to do and gave her up, so I really didn't know what everyone is so stressed and criticizing about?

 

Based on effort alone, GTY can never compare to QH. Cuz he never suffers, sacrifices or risking that much for ML. And he gave her up in a situation where (everyone has to agree) there were no other way out (and please with GTY's solution, it was ridiculous and would place everyone in a greater danger). Unlike what most viewers think from the conversation between QH and GTY, I think QH did the right thing while GTY was being unreasonable and impulsive. After all GTY didn't get her fair and square either. QH just didn't figure out the right method, but he had good intentions. QH failed, doesn't mean he was all wrong, GTY succeeded, doesn't mean he was all right (in their relationships with ML). I have to say the author made it pretty easy for him in getting ML.

 

Well, all I can see is one man who's willing and has the resolve to go all the way, one's never been able to decide what to do. The whole point of GTY's talk with QH is that if QH was a little more aggressive, not scared and worried of this and that, he would have married ML long before the Rong family and Yong Wang family laid eyes on him. The methods that GTY was talking about, I believe, was only some of the plans he came up with on a whim, if he had more time, I bet he could come up with an actual perfect scheme against Yong Wang Fei. I agree that sometimes his methods are not at all righteous,  but the most important thing is that he has the determination. This is not a perfect world, sometimes you have to break the rules to get what you want, at least he's never resort to blackmail (like Lin and Molan) or murder (like Yong Wang Fei) or hurt other people to achieve the match he wants. Heck, even Grandma acknowledges that he must have care about Minglan a lot to come up with such elaborated plan just so that he can marry her.

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I always find these dramas to be in the “grey” zone in regards to characters being evil or not evil. When watching concubine Q Lin’s receiving her punishment, I didn’t really give a cheer. Or think to myself, good the bad guys/girls  get their just desserts. I only felt a sense of pity to tell you the truth. And more so to ML’s sister. 

I feel a sense of pity for her situation in life. Yes,  she could have married a “poorer” husband and become the first wife. But she felt that woman had to “survive”. The survival of the fittest mentality. No, I’m not justifying or feel that because of her situation she had to murder ML’s mother. I just think that the characters in the drama are depicted in such a way that morally there are grey overtones. 

Consequences for your actions? Yes, always. 

In regards to QH, I think he put ML in a pedestal. Longing for something that he cannot obtain. I actually meet a couple of guys like this (even when they have married for years). It’s pretty much the concept of young love or what could have been. I personally think it’s a waste of time to reminisce, but that their prerogrative. 

QH is in his own little purgatory  thinking of the past and not the future. I think there is correlation between the “old emperor” which is QH’s family and the future emperor which is the  ML and GLY’s future family. 

 

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28 minutes ago, gleek49 said:

 

Well, all I can see is one man who's willing and has the resolve to go all the way, one's never been able to decide what to do. The whole point of GTY's talk with QH is that if QH was a little more aggressive, not scared and worried of this and that, he would have married ML long before the Rong family and Yong Wang family laid eyes on him. 

 

I think people also fail to acknowledge  a few things. 

 

It’s laid out clearly the differences between GTY and QH. We also have to take into consideration the thinking at that time.

 

Unlike GTY, QH had no problems with his family prior to this. How many years had he been raised to follow propriety, to do the proper thing to bring his family honour, etc. GTY on the other hand had been fighting with his family and had more experience with manipulation and strategy to get what he wants. The way QH handled the situation was the way he knew how, with his knowledge, and his experience (or lack thereof). 

 

It also reflects strongly that GTY’s suggestions or way of handling that he’s used to not caring about what others think, same as how he didn’t care about what others thought except for desprate attempts to get approval from his father. However everything else be damned. He had the advantage of a competitive and unpleasant upbringing that he could think of extreme plots to handle the princess. Again, he makes decisions based on his own knowledge and experiences, which if we talk about manipulation was many. Isn’t he older than them as well? I’d say even he has the advantage of age together with experience.

 

Quote

ut the most important thing is that he has the determination. This is not a perfect world, sometimes you have to break the rules to get what you want

 

Isn’t  this a very modern way of thinking? Wasn’t it at their time, the most important thing was country and family honour, and responsibility to your family? Again, quoting you it’s not a perfect world. Sometimes determination just doesn’t get what you want. Breaking the rules doesn’t bring certainty. 

 

Maybe a lot of people admire GTY for his fearlessness. But isn’t QH’s loyalty to family or sacrifice equally admirable especially for QH’s parents? I don’t think we should cheapen his efforts at trying to do what’s right by Ming Lan AND his family with the principles and teachings he believed were also right just because his method was successful at one thing and failed at another. When GTY asked QH if he’d like to do things as he suggested, with the kidnapping, could he just easily shed more than a decade’s worth of belief/upbringing and feel confident that the plot would work. Maybe he didn’t believe GTY’s assurances.

 

GTY is rewarded for his reckless and bold decisions and plots, but isn’t he also just lucky as a character? Even he wasn’t initially able to handle problems right in front of him (Manniang) and he had to learn from his mistake. QH just had to undergo the same — learn from his weaknesses and be better for it in his future. At the same time, both men live up to their decisions responsibly (I.e. GTY caring for his illegitimate children anyhow despite the culture at that time, and QH fulfilling responsibilities for his family and being the only son, etc). I think they are both admirable in their own ways, though differently.

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11 hours ago, leeza77 said:
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If so, then he's not for her. Welcome gty. Good bye qh.(leave him to me) ha ha:D

 

Ha ha :D Make sure to guard him from being poached by his next rich mother-in-law.

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11 hours ago, m0us3y said:

Then again, I don't think he will ever find out. 

If ML doesn't open up, she can have the whole world fooled that she has absolutely nothing to do with the whole saga...

And even if someone snitch on her, if ML denies it, I'd say QH will believe her...

Because she clearly doesn't seem like she's that cold blooded...

And he probably still believe in unicorns (which would be why he would still try again)...

I agree chances of him finding out is slim.While watching epi 33 I was reminded of this.How little people around ML know of her.Even her grandmother couldn't  believe she could scheme concubine Lin's downfall and death in such a daring manner.

QH got a rude awakening from his 1st wife's family it might have brought about some character growth in him.The next episodes will give us an idea if he is still stuck in the idealistic world or has become more worldly wise.

I am curious to know how GTY would react to ML's scheming tricks. He does resort to them too.

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9 minutes ago, nrbrown said:

I feel a sense of pity for her situation in life. Yes,  she could have married a “poorer” husband and become the first wife. But she felt that woman had to “survive”. The survival of the fittest mentality. No, I’m not justifying or feel that because of her situation she had to murder ML’s mother. I just think that the characters in the drama are depicted in such a way that morally there are grey overtones. 

 

I agree... I also felt a sense of pity for Molan. Very naive...and very sad. It's all about the "what ifs"... Cause if she did not have her mother's influence, she may be different. If Grandma or Big Madam had kicked Concubine Lin out or not let Lin raised any of her children.. I don't think we would get this kind of story. Molan was blinded from wanting to beat her sisters and because of this... she did not see the problem that the Liang family is having internally that they are out looking for a potential daughter-in-law. 

 

As for ML, she's smart and she got the fish to bite her bait. I understand her reason for revenge and why she plan what she did but... I just kinda wish it wasn't ML's plan because she knew very well what was going to happen to Molan...I want to believe that maybe ML think that Molan would be as cunning or more worst than Concubine Lin and be able to handle the Liangs but... as everyone already kinda know what will happen to Molan already. yeah yeah yeah... it's not all ML's fault but I guess we reap what we sow. 

 

 

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First of all, thank you all for posting on this forum.  I'm totally obsessed with this show right now and thrilled to find so many other people enjoying it too.

 

I haven't read the novel so there are some parts that I'm kinda lost about. 

 

1.  ML suppose to be 14/15 when they transition into adulthood in the drama?  How old is GTY's character? 

 

2.  During the Molan/ Madam Lin scandal, how come there was no mention or appearance of the two brothers at all?  It's like the author just forgot about them or am I missing something?  Seems odd that such a big scandal is rocking the family and they aren't part of the discussions.

 

3.  Some of you have mentioned that GTY is a schemer but I haven't really seen that much of it yet in the drama.  Seems like he's the one being manipulated by his mistress and his step-mother.  Is that part different than the novel?

 

Thanks all!

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The quiet ones are usually the most dangerous ones :D . ML scheme was amazing. No one even suspected her except grandma. Loved the shock grandma got when ML explained it all. Anyway, great that concubine lin is gone, hope they show alittle of Molan's life of misery on screen.

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@artbox QH is the way he is because of his upbringing, it's not his fault, I get it, I've said it before in this thread. I've never said GTY is better than him, he just more suitable to ML than QH, that's all. I'm also glad that QH was confronted by the reality and learned from the hard experience. I'm just disagree with @linhlinh111 that GTY was "unreasonable and impulsive" and that he was "lucky" and it was "easy" for him to get Minglan. 

 

My point is both man approach the matter the best way they know how, it just happened that in this particular case of Marrying Miss Sheng Sixth, QH's righteous and proper way didn't worked out and he lost his chance forever. Meanwhile, GTY's aggressive and fearless way works wonder on her. As I said before, even if he schemes, he schemes in a way that cause nobody harm, even help Rulan marries as she wishes. We've seen enough of how he operates in the drama (taking care of Manniang and the kids, saving ML but still considering her reputation, etc.) to know that he's definitely not "unreasonable and impulsive". Also, GTY worked hard and been through a lot to get to this point, pulling an entirely elaborate plot just to marry a girl, I wouldn't call it "easy".

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10 minutes ago, gleek49 said:

@artboxI'm just disagree with @linhlinh111 that GTY was "unreasonable and impulsive" and that he was "lucky" and it was "easy" for him to get Minglan. 

 

My point is both man approach the matter the best way theyknow how, it just happened that in this particular case of Marrying Miss Sheng Sixth, QH's righteous and proper way didn't worked out and he lost his chance forever. Meanwhile, GTY's aggressive and fearless way works wonder on her. As I said before, even if he schemes, he schemes in a way that cause nobody harm, even help Rulan marries as she wishes. 

 

I think GTY has his impulsive moments, but not all the time (i.e. going off as Bai Ye with his daughter until Ming Lan talked some sense into him). Maybe he's just not impulsive towards Ming Lan so far. 

 

I know we all like it in the drama but GTY using Rulan felt the same as Ming Lan using her Second Older Brother (at least she disliked it afterwards). If the scholar turned out to be an unpleasant person then we can't confidently say no one was harmed. I don't want to put GTY in a pedestal. We only see his scheme succeeding and Rulan bring happy but in truth, at the moment he made those decisions what certainty did he have that it was best for Rulan? It was only good for him, and it was as Rulan wanted but neither of them know really if she had the best future with the scholar. :P

 

 

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55 minutes ago, gleek49 said:

@artbox QH is the way he is because of his upbringing, it's not his fault, I get it, I've said it before in this thread. I've never said GTY is better than him, he just more suitable to ML than QH, that's all. I'm also glad that QH was confronted by the reality and learned from the hard experience. I'm just disagree with @linhlinh111 that GTY was "unreasonable and impulsive" and that he was "lucky" and it was "easy" for him to get Minglan. 

 

My point is both man approach the matter the best way they know how, it just happened that in this particular case of Marrying Miss Sheng Sixth, QH's righteous and proper way didn't worked out and he lost his chance forever. Meanwhile, GTY's aggressive and fearless way works wonder on her. As I said before, even if he schemes, he schemes in a way that cause nobody harm, even help Rulan marries as she wishes. We've seen enough of how he operates in the drama (taking care of Manniang and the kids, saving ML but still considering her reputation, etc.) to know that he's definitely not "unreasonable and impulsive". Also, GTY worked hard and been through a lot to get to this point, pulling an entirely elaborate plot just to marry a girl, I wouldn't call it "easy".

 

I am new to the forum but I’ve been following the discussions and I want to say that I agree entirely with this!

 

QH was a product of his upbringing. He was sheltered & given everything he wanted. He never had to work for anything and so he thought he will be allowed to marry Minglan. I can’t fault him for that. My problem comes with the way he went about doing it. He could have asked his mother about ML at any time but he chose her birthday. After making her feel like a queen & when she probably was feeling loved he asked about Minglan making it clear why he planned the celebration. What mother would agree then? She would definitely say no. My other problem with him is he is indecisive. He takes a long while to come to a decision & even longer to act on it. This is why he will never be the one for ML. He would never have been able to protect her in his house. 

 

GTY as a character has been through a lot & has experienced the feeling of being unloved & unwanted and that is why he is perfect for ML. He has learnt to be decisive & plan for everything and work for what he wants. He never had anything easy and I don’t believe he is getting ML easy either. They both fit because of everything they have been through. They open up to each other & bring each other up when they are down. I don’t believe she would have had that with ML. She would have had to pretend to be docile & meek for the rest of her life & not live her life for herself as she would do now after marrying GTY

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1 hour ago, linhlinh111 said:

I see many have posted that QH didn't understand ML, I think that's debatable.

 

First, QH never stated why he liked ML and viewers just assumed that he loved her bc he thought she was a kind-hearted innocent girl. Remember he grew up in a aristocrat household (with all its dark side, like Sheng family), he was sheltered so that he didn't encounter any significant hardships, which lead to his optimism, but it doesn't mean that he was blinded and couldn't see through people. On the contrary, I think he had good eyes in seeing people. Evidence: he never got swayed by Molan or any other girls with both beauty and status around him (he WAS the most wanted man, lots of temptation). I believe he set eyes on ML cuz he felt something different in her, he might not know everything about her right now, but he definitely got a general idea. Proof: later he knows everything and still loves her (and he's not surprised at all). So it's unfair to assume things about him that wasn't shown.

@linhlinh111  I have to agree with you here QH knew some of her, Remembering back to him and second uncle (GTY) how she indeed turn the tables on them and had them both in a heated debate. He told GTY that was a part of the reason he liked her because she was clever like that.. I just don't think he knew how manipulative she could be.. But giving the circumstances of her manipulation I think he would have agreed to what she did.. When in actuality she didn't have to do much she knew Mom and Daughter would hang themselves giving them enough rope to do so.. QH knew ML withstood a lot of hardship in that home so her getting revenge on them was a giving.

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I had a little bit more sympathy for Molan and Concubine Lin in episode 33. Of course, I don't agree with any of their actions towards other women,  but you could really get a sense of how their livelihoods were fragile and depended on the men around them. Once they stepped on Sheng Hong's bottom line, one lost her life and the other was basically disowned. While these outcomes are a consequence of their own actions, you gotta wonder what life would have been like for Concubine Lin, who might be a better politician than her husband, and Molan, who just might be cleverer than her 3rd brother. If they had been men, even if their wily characters remained the same, perhaps their outcomes would have been different. 

 

I teared up a little bit when ML confessed her schemes to Zumu. And, appreciated that Zumu's final response was an apology to ML for not seeking justice for her from the very beginning, thus forcing her to undertake the revenge alone. ML had already given her father opportunities to redeem himself, he just didn't take them...ultimately, the outcomes of the women around him are partly his fault too.  

 

Despite some of the changes to ML as a character, I am very much enjoying the show. That is, I appreciate that ML hides her intelligence, boldness, and anger. I feel that this is much more accurate response of women living under a restrictive time period. This allows me to be convinced by her survival and ultimate victory. Speaking of intelligence, boldness, and anger, this is why I couldn't stand the characterization of Wei Yingluo in Yan Xi Gong...SORRY OT. I will say that ML is increasingly starting to reveal the "protagonist's halo"...but hey it's episode 30+ now anyway. 

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