[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否？知否？应是绿肥红瘦

[hello210]

5 hours ago, tomo74 said:

@linhlinh111I have the same view as you, thought I'm the only one, thank you 

To be honest, I thought it was cute for QH to act the hero and help ML, even though I knew that it would probably be an issue later. I’ll admit that I expected for someone of QH’s position and smarts to know a bit more about societal dynamics, but given how sheltered he is, I can see why he doesn’t.

 

5 hours ago, linhlinh111 said:

The character QH in the drama was designed very well, from his optimism, to his naivety, to his passion, to his stubbornness. Resulted from his upbringing, his status and his personality, all of his actions till now were reasonable and consistent within the context of the story. After all he's just the second male lead so of course he gotta step back when the lead come on stage.

I agree, his character was designed well, which gives us a good story line of first love and that not everything is always rainbows and sunshines. It’s like one of QH’s lines in the trailers, “We think that if we ask for the wind, we will get the wind.”  To me it shows one of those life lessons that even though we see someone who seems to have it all, it’s not always that way.  Everything in life is about choices, possibilities, and opportunities. Each choice made affects something else.  Everyone grows up with different circumstances that shape our values which shape our choices and sometimes, like QH’s situation, those choices are already made for us and it’s a matter of how we accept it. 

   As for the offer of kidnapping the princess, I’m going to reserve my judgment on whether that was a genuine plan, or if GTY was testing to see how far QH would be willing to go because for someone who’s been out there and seen the political climate and chaos first hand with strategic smarts, I sought he would actually do something crazy like that against a powerful family. There’s another scene in the trailers where GTY says something like, “You expect her to wage her life on a plan like that?” It didn’t show who he was talking to so I don’t know if there’s more to come on GTY helping out or if it’s something else. I don’t think QH is beyond scheming, as long as he doesn’t feel that it will bring harm to others, since he has done a little bit of scheming like getting 6th Liang son to set up the polo match or tricks to get ML alone. His scheming is just more innocent and not as bold and crazy as GTY, once again it’s because of their personalities shaped by their circumstances. 

[ForgottenSoulx]

7 hours ago, m0us3y said:

Hahahahahaha. 

My bad. My apologies. 

It was nice for a while...every girl's dream to marry the prince....until marrying the prince just got boring...

Was sick of shows with the rich perfect guy always saving the day and the damsel in distress. Why can't the woman save herself?

And that's why I adore ML. 

 

When QH said he'll protect her, I just wanted to say "that's nice, but I think she is capable of protecting herself!!"

 

For some reason i always like these type's of shows maybe because i like cocky rich guys ? xd

6 hours ago, m0us3y said:

I know right!

ML must be some sort of bandit magnet or something?! 

4 bandit attacks in 3 episodes!! (Including her 1v1 with the fatty, which was more hilarious, and  the attack that she never had) Show is surely out to create opportunities for GTY to save her! 

 

I do prefer that he protects her in secret tho, and not declaring to her and expect returns. 

Especially funny that he shot the lantern and it seemed like she did it, frightening the bandit to run. 

 

I think at some point ML will save him back. She can protect him, and the others around her too!! 

 

From trailers ive seen i think she will save him fear not. 

[ForgottenSoulx]

4 hours ago, linhlinh111 said:

To previous post who said QH shouldn't help ML in the polo match, QH was in love with ML, ML was in a tough situation. So should he be like: "No worries, somebody else is gonna help her, I should just stay out of it"? That is not something a man in love would think. QH's action is logical and true to his character, maybe not very smart in viewer's opinion, but that's what he was supposed to do.

 

I see many have said that QH should have understood ML's situation instead of being selfish and causing her trouble. Imagine a 15 yr old boy growing up in a pink world, one day he fell in love and suddenly everyone said "No you 2 can't be together" and expected him to just give up? He loved her so he had to go for her. What's wrong with that? After he knew that his action would bring her trouble he tried to be more discreet, but there were moments he couldn't control himself and that was totally normal. He was young, naive, passionate and sometimes a bit less thoughtful, but that was who he is.

 

Viewers sometimes expect him to do things or to not do things that are completely out of his character. QH is not GTY, their backgrounds, situations and personalities are totally different. He is gentle, kind and his way of thinking is straightfoward. He wanted to marry ML so he did it the official way, asking his parents to propose for him. It might not a very smart move but that was how far his mind could go. If he wanted to get married he had to have his parents' approval so he couldn't think of any other way. He wouldn't con or trick his way through bc that was wrong to him.

 

QH refused GTY's help bc the solution he proposed was devious and QH, who lived by his moral code, could not approve. He didn't mess up everything, the situation was already messed up itself. He was cornered and had no other choice but to give ML up. At least he knew when to give up and he only gave up after trying everything he could. If he had 7-8 more yrs of life experience, when he was at GTY's age now he would be perfect for ML, but unfortunately for him ML wouldn't hang around and wait for him forever, so in the end QH and ML just weren't meant for each other.

 

The character QH in the drama was designed very well, from his optimism, to his naivety, to his passion, to his stubbornness. Resulted from his upbringing, his status and his personality, all of his actions till now were reasonable and consistent within the context of the story. After all he's just the second male lead so of course he gotta step back when the lead come on stage.

 

A man who actually thinks back then would exactly do that , you helping her basically has a big chance to ruin her reputation and people will gossip etc.. if someone is already about to help her why do you need to get involved. I dont think his actions are logical at all and i really like QH but the polo thing was just him trying to show off .

 

When ML keeps telling him stuff and it does not register im just starting to think QH has some illness, him being young is not a excuse for him being so damn naive and stupid, those moments where he couldnt control himself could ruin ML's life forever. 

 

He didnt ask the correct way at all on his mum's birthday where she was emotional from her son's love he asks can he marry some girl.. could anyone be more stupid.

 

Well QH enjoy that moral code for the rest of your life where you are miserable,depressed and alone. 

 

I like QH but hes infuriating and stupid but i still pity the character and hope good thing's for him .

 

3 hours ago, tomo74 said:

Does anyone know other website beside viki?, I'm still at ep 25 since the eng subs this time is quite slow, thanks

 

Nah its just viki. 

[tomo74]

30 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

He didnt ask the correct way at all on his mum's birthday where she was emotional from her song's love he asks can he marry some girl.. could anyone be more stupid.

If irc, he didn't straight ask his mom after the lantern and the dinner thing. The convo between him and his father leads to that, and he didn't say who is the girl, mom already knows it, my apologize if I remembered incorrectly. He indeed has the intention to bring this matter up to his parent.

I agree about the comment, we can't compared apple and orange, like GTY and QH, they are very different, GTY is street smart, more cunning, quick thinking, but QH is book smart, sheltered, naive, so like others said, they do/react differently base on each personality.

[m0us3y]

5 hours ago, thatpers0n said:

First off, I am sorry for not quoting the post I am replying to -I forgot. XD

For the person who said about what SL ending might be, for me it's better he died honourably as a SL. It is much better than him having to watch someone he love in someone else arms tbh. 

As for the how this could be like those cliche k-drama I know right. Though I say I would would rather watch that than watching a not pure guy winning a pure girl. 

Do correct me if I've misunderstood,...did u mean QH should die honorably just because he couldn't get ML?

If that's not what you meant, my apologies in advance for misunderstanding. 

 

If that's what you meant...

Then I think ML should have died first - born into unloved lowly concubine, mother and brother murdered, and she has to continue to live with the murderers!

And GTY should die following - mom died from heartbreak, misunderstood by the world to cause the dad's death, the one he loved (MN) deceived him all these while, the stepmom he trusted turned out to be a demon. 

I'm not sure losing his first love (and servant) is much harder. 

 

So he doesn't get his first love. Forced to give it up and marry another. 

Life lesson 101: you don't get everything you want in life. I like how @hello210 puts it, it's opportunity, and choices. And if I may add, trade offs. You make a choice, you get something, you lose something else. Almost the law of equilibrium. 

He made a choice, (yes, under threat), to save the dad and potentially Sheng Family and ML to marry the princess, he loses ML. It may not seem like much of a choice, but it is. And he made it.

GTY offered the other choice: Maybe stupid, probably very risky, definitely daring. The stakes are high, and if he loses, he could lose a lot! But fact is, he didn't choose the risky route (if he did, he would probably be the male lead).

The choice he made is probably consistent with the character of QH, if I may add. 

If he made that choice, live with the consequences! 

 

He has his moral code, and that's partially to do with the fact that he had the luxury to have that. 

It's tumultuous times, and it's a dog eat dog world out there. His ideals would be crushed sooner or later. That world he lives in was a bubble the parents created for him. It's bound to burst. 

 

When things go south, he should learn to fight. 

Learn the way of life, it doesn't mean he has to manipulate everyone, but it does mean he's at least able to protect himself. 

Everyone is fighting hard to survive, and thrive. ML and GTY had always been on battlefields, fighting for themselves. 

About time for QH to do the same too. 

Death, after just losing your right to be with your loved one? That's just cowardice. 

[ForgottenSoulx]

1 hour ago, tomo74 said:

If irc, he didn't straight ask his mom after the lantern and the dinner thing. The convo between him and his father leads to that, and he didn't say who is the girl, mom already knows it, my apologize if I remembered incorrectly. He indeed has the intention to bring this matter up to his parent.

I agree about the comment, we can't compared apple and orange, like GTY and QH, they are very different, GTY is street smart, more cunning, quick thinking, but QH is book smart, sheltered, naive, so like others said, they do/react differently base on each personality.

 

You can bring it up but doing at that point is pure stupidity it would just anger the mum that the son did all this to win the girl and not really for me/.

57 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

 

 

 

I think that person means they want QH to die honourably then suffer all his life? 

After knowing what happens to QH in the book if he died earlier it would have been better then what happens to him. 

 

Also it was not really a choice the sheng family,ML and his father were being threatened he had no choice there. 

[Golden Flower]

@linhlinh111 Well said! You worded better than me.

In life, People usually do not fully grasp the depth of the issue unless they personally experience it as in the case with QH. That’s what I have been saying in my posts earlier that it is unjust to call QH weak, selfish, wet-blanket for not having better plans to propose marriage to ML. Everything he did was in character and there is no better ways he could have done at this point in his life. He was ready to marry ML as his first wife, he himself not caring ML status. He did not understand his mom and his family situation of needing him to marry well to keep their current status, causing him to overestimate his ability in convincing his mom. As he has not expected that he would fail to marry ML, he would not think that helping her in Polo will create bad reputation for her. You can see his thinking in the way he addressed ML’s concerns during their alone meeting at the temple. That doesn’t mean that he was not being considerate of ML, not listening to what ML was telling him about her predicaments or not respecting her. He just thought that he already has solution and she shouldn’t be worrying. He was just being too optimistic and naive as he has not experienced life challenging situations like ML and GTY. 

 

However, for this story, I do not to see QH as SL, written to give way to GTY. QH and GTY were not rivaling for ML at this point and his character has not been forced in anyway to lose the opportunity to get married to ML like in the case of Dr. He. It is that QH wanting to marry ML at this point in his life was not right time as well as his personality, upbringing, background and status were not suitable for ML to be his first wife at this point. If he met ML after his princess wife died, he might be more cautious in meeting her or helping her and he might not even consider marrying her as main wife since he should have already realized that his ducal family needs his status. 

 

 

Spoiler

In epi 27, he thought about asking emperor decree for marriage during spring visit to palace but it will be easier said than done in reality even if he is not in current predicament with YW family. He told ML that he believes emperor will give the decree seeing that he is being sincere, another display of his naivety and optimism. 

 

On the other hand, I don’t consider GTY being less pure or having bad rep or thinks that he doesn’t deserve ML. I have no issue even if the drama portray him like in the book having dead legal wife and concubines before ML. Being raised unloved in that kind of family environment with rebellious streak and access to money, GTY having two kids with outside women at the age of 23-24 in Song Dynasty is not surprising to me. In that era, guys already sleeping with their tongfan maids as early as 12-13. (Kang Xi emperor had his first child when he was 13). Parents already start looking for suitable marriage prospect for their daughters as early as 12-13 and girls usually get married right after their coming of age ceremony at 15. We should also remember that there is no much entertainment like internet, TV, movies, games in that period. We should only judge characters being in their shoes, understanding their background, situation and the time period they’re in.

 

However, I felt the drama is trying to make GTY look too good by showing him attending school regularly, making him take imperial exam and saying he only failed because of his cunning older brother’s bath-mouthing him. It seems a little forced to imagine someone who pleasures in alcohol and entertainment with two young kids studying hard. I understand the drama needs to create more interactions between main leads and cannot portray male lead too realistically like in the book to get viewers. 

 

Spoiler

 

Brother CB who has upright character, also has 1-2 tong-fan maids before he got married, it is just not shown. The only reason those guys with tong-fan maids at home do not have kids before they got main wife is that their moms made sure those maid do not get pregnant. For GTY’s case, he did not have kids with his 7 tongfan maids as they were made sure not to get pregnant but got kids with MN because she was kept outside with no one to control her fertility. 

 

That’s why I commented before that viewers should not compare QH’s current actions towards ML to those of GTY at current time point or in the future. QH is a 18 years old lad madly in love with ML and GTY is 23-24 years old acquitance of ML with weathered experiences who is not love-struck. QH was only son raised in ducal scholarly house by both parents who loved, pampered and protected him while GTY was raised in military house with trashy relatives and two other brothers by his strict father with inability to express his love and dubious stepmother. GTY grew up without being loved, emotionally and physically abused, left to defend for himself, lived wandering life in Jianghu as well as in entertainment circles. QH is both financially and emotionally dependent on his parents while GTY is not. So, their ways of thinking and actions toward ML at current time point will be totally different. Afterall, they're two totally different characters. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Katrina Abdul Talib]

This drama points out everything tht is wrong/not normal/flaws in each family -  their children somehow became victims of circumstances.

 

Now, how do I summarise and elaborate on the above? 

[tomo74]

14 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

However, I felt the drama is trying to make GTY look too good by showing him attending school regularly, making him take imperial exam and saying he only failed because of his cunning older brother’s bath-mouthing him. It seems a little forced to imagine someone who pleasures in alcohol and entertainment with two young kids studying hard.

I couldn't agree more   but after all GTY is the first lead, the script won't failed him, ML has to end up with heroic type of person.

[hello210]

1 hour ago, Golden Flower said:

 

However, I felt the drama is trying to make GTY look too good by showing him attending school regularly, making him take imperial exam and saying he only failed because of his cunning older brother’s bath-mouthing him. It seems a little forced to imagine someone who pleasures in alcohol and entertainment with two young kids studying hard. I understand the drama needs to create more interactions between main leads and cannot portray male lead too realistically like in the book to get viewers. 

Lol...I actually know some people like that that’s crazy smart who studies during the day and parties all the time, thus having kids. It’s not common, but relatable to me.  But I will have to agree that they had to showcase some good attributes in GTY to counterbalance the having mistress, kids, and possible first marriage (in novel) because there were comments from some viewers in Viki that they were no longer interested once they saw this and realized that ML was not his first and only.  

 

44 minutes ago, tomo74 said:

I couldn't agree more   but after all GTY is the first lead, the script won't failed him, ML has to end up with heroic type of person.

As far as ML having to end up with GTY, after all the fantasy and historical C-dramas and K-dramas, I’ve seen so far where one or the other ends up dying, floating at the bottom of a lake, or a frozen popsicle despite what’s in the novels, I wouldn’t have even cared if a twist was made and she ended up with QH after all, I’m just glad it’s a happy ending   Even though it’s fitting for ML and GTY’s characters to be together and I like GTY.

[nrbrown]

Wow, love all your current posts. @m0us3y@linhlinh111@hello210 @GoldenFlower(Among others) have written eloquently and analyzed perfectly (much better than I could have done).First of all thanks  It makes watching this drama even more enjoyable. Secondly, it shows this drama is even more interesting to interpret and watch. It makes you want think, and ponder, to which I treasure those dramas more. Sure there are some valid criticisms of the drama. However, I don’t ever trust 100% what they show to be actual in that specific time period. Cause honestly most likely they wouldn’t be able to show so many episodes.ie. Making ML the steward for example or putting them in classes with men not their brothers. Not likely, but I tend to shrug my shoulders and wave it off. Cause if they showed the women embroider everyday would be totally dull drama to/for me..

 

Just one observation  in regards to QH and GTY, I like both characters truth be told, However, when it comes to marriage it’s a different ball game. Both of them have faults and good qualities. But ultimately who would be the better partner for ML in the long run is what decides her “love” per say ( I’m putting quotations in the love part for a reason). Family ties is what matters in the long run.

 

Personally, there is NO way I would marry or think of marrying QH. Having a mother in law like that would want me to return to my family ASAP. 

GTY for all his play boy tendicies and having children out of wedlock shows a sense of responsibility, to me, a better marriage candidate. Plus not having a mother or having a crappy family gives the wife a different sort of freedom (postives and negatives of course) ie. Not tied 100% to the in-laws would be a big relief to me. But again I’m not ML 

 

 

 

[linhlinh111]

@Golden Flower Yes I also agree with you on GTY. I see many people criticize him from being not "pure" enough for ML. I think that bc ML is the main lead, viewers are defending her too much. Remember that in a society based on status, ML is just a daughter of a concubine of a mid-rank official, while GTY is a legitimate son of a Marquis. Moreover, his eldest brother is seriously ill with no heir and he is bound to inherit the title. So in normal circumstances, there's no chance he would set eyes on ML and even if he did, things would just turn out like with QH. The author gave him a bad reputation and illegitimate children to lower his marriage potential, only then someone of ML's status could be fitting to him. He had to also cut ties with his family so that he could decide who to marry and not relying on his parents. His marriage with ML is not just a journey of love, but a result of many different elements combined together. All of his flaws are there for a reason and without them he could never be with ML.

 

So to say when I read the book I only started to like him a little bit in later in the story. The first 1/3 he was kinda... not there. The second 2/3 he was so full of himself and annoying. The third he was rather okay, but that's it. I guess he's not my style.

[m0us3y]

4 hours ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

For some reason i always like these type's of shows maybe because i like cocky rich guys ? xd

 

From trailers ive seen i think she will save him fear not. 

Lol. Really?? 

I can't take those cocky guys that would hand grab the girls and all! 

I like shows with the guys having a bit more tact, and the girls having a backbone to stand for themselves. 

Lol. Explained why I come to like ZLY's shows. Read somewhere she has tendencies to choose characters that are opinionated to a certain extent to play! 

 

 

1 hour ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

You can bring it up but doing at that point is pure stupidity it would just anger the mum that the son did all this to win the girl and not really for me/.

 

I think that person means they want QH to die honourably then suffer all his life? 

After knowing what happens to QH in the book if he died earlier it would have been better then what happens to him. 

 

Also it was not really a choice the sheng family,ML and his father were being threatened he had no choice there. 

Ahhh. I don't know what happened in the book. Never read it. Only from random spoilers and snippets from chingus here. 

I guess I can understand if his life turna out to be miserable. We know that because we've seen/read the ending. But in any of our life, until we walk down the path, we wouldn't really know if its for better or worse. We could only deduce based on the info on hand at the time. 

In the end, it's a bit of a poker game isn't it?

Sometimes we get good cards, other times we are dealt with bad cards. Either way, we play our hands to the best of our ability, and haven't we seen winners with bad cards?

[linhlinh111]

6 minutes ago, nrbrown said:

Wow, love all your current posts. @m0us3y@linhlinh111@hello210 @GoldenFlower(Among others) have written eloquently and analyzed perfectly (much better than I could have done).First of all thanks  It makes watching this drama even more enjoyable. Secondly, it shows this drama is even more interesting to interpret and watch. It makes you want think, and ponder, to which I treasure those dramas more. Sure there are some valid criticisms of the drama. However, I don’t ever trust 100% what they show to be actual in that specific time period. Cause honestly most likely they wouldn’t be able to show so many episodes.ie. Making ML the steward for example or putting them in classes with men not their brothers. Not likely, but I tend to shrug my shoulders and wave it off. Cause if they showed the women embroider everyday would be totally dull drama to/for me..

 

Just one observation  in regards to QH and GTY, I like both characters truth be told, However, when it comes to marriage it’s a different ball game. Both of them have faults and good qualities. But ultimately who would be the better partner for ML in the long run is what decides her “love” per say ( I’m putting quotations in the love part for a reason). Family ties is what matters in the long run.

 

Personally, there is NO way I would marry or think of marrying QH. Having a mother in law like that would want me to return to my family ASAP. 

GTY for all his play boy tendicies and having children out of wedlock shows a sense of responsibility, to me, a better marriage candidate. Plus not having a mother or having crappy family gives the wife a different sort of freedom (postives and negatives of course) ie. Not tied 100% to the in-laws would be a big relief to me. But again I’m not ML 

 

 

 

 

Yes it's a little bit too modern but not impossible. In later dynasties of China (the Ming and the Qing), the women were very restricted and they were not allowed to have any interaction with non-family men. But in the previous periods (Song and earlier) things were more relaxed. Women were still bound to their family and didn't have a say in marriage, but they were allowed to socialize more and they could interact with other men as long as there was an elder/ a male family member/ a maid presented. We see in the drama many scene in which ML met in private with QH and it was okay cuz it happened in a public place and both their maid/servant were there. Also the class they were attending was technically family-owned. It means they invited a professor to their home to teach their children, and both of the brothers were always there, QH and GTY could come bc they had a close relationship to the family, and there were a curtain to separate male/female student, so it was totally possible.

[linhlinh111]

7 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

Lol. Really?? 

I can't take those cocky guys that would hand grab the girls and all! 

I like shows with the guys having a bit more tact, and the girls having a backbone to stand for themselves. 

Lol. Explained why I come to like ZLY's shows. Read somewhere she has tendencies to choose characters that are opinionated to a certain extent to play! 

 

 

Ahhh. I don't know what happened in the book. Never read it. Only from random spoilers and snippets from chingus here. 

I guess I can understand if his life turna out to be miserable. We know that because we've seen/read the ending. But in any of our life, until we walk down the path, we wouldn't really know if its for better or worse. We could only deduce based on the info on hand at the time. 

In the end, it's a bit of a poker game isn't it?

Sometimes we get good cards, other times we are dealt with bad cards. Either way, we play our hands to the best of our ability, and haven't we seen winners with bad cards?

 

Yeah I don't like the cocky rich guy type either. I prefer the gentle passionate type. Maybe that's why I like QH (Also bc ZYL is super handsome) but his mother is a total let down. I wouldn't marry him either.

 

Anyway QH's life was not that bad. He succeeded in his career, had 2 sons and a few grandchildren. He was just lonely and loveless that's all. You don't die bc of that, people die for much worse reasons. There's no honor in dying just bc you don't get the girl. He was the only son, he had a whole family to take care of so despite how unhappy he was, he just gotta man up and take the responsibility he had to take. It's sad but in that time period that was how it was. If he had died just bc he couldn't be with ML then I would despise him very much.

[ForgottenSoulx]

2 hours ago, Golden Flower said:

@linhlinh111 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 In epi 27, he thought about asking emperor decree for marriage during spring visit to palace but it will be easier said than done in reality even if he is not in current predicament with YW family. He told ML that he believes emperor will give the decree seeing that he is being sincere, another display of his naivety and optimism. 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Brother CB who has upright character, also has 1-2 tong-fan maids before he got married, it is just not shown. The only reason those guys with tong-fan maids at home do not have kids before they got main wife is that their moms made sure those maid do not get pregnant. For GTY’s case, he did not have kids with his 7 tongfan maids as they were made sure not to get pregnant but got kids with MN because she was kept outside with no one to control her fertility. 

 

That’s why I commented before that viewers should not compare QH’s current actions towards ML to those of GTY at current time point or in the future. QH is a 18 years old lad madly in love with ML and GTY is 23-24 years old acquitance of ML with weathered experiences who is not love-struck. QH was only son raised in ducal scholarly house by both parents who loved, pampered and protected him while GTY was raised in military house with trashy relatives and two other brothers by his strict father with inability to express his love and dubious stepmother. GTY grew up without being loved, emotionally and physically abused, left to defend for himself, lived wandering life in Jianghu as well as in entertainment circles. QH is both financially and emotionally dependent on his parents while GTY is not. So, their ways of thinking and actions toward ML at current time point will be totally different. Afterall, they're two totally different characters. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dont think its unjust to call someone weak/selfish/wet blanket when that is what his character is portraying in several instances, it does not matter if everything he did was in character it can still be called out. There was better way's if he just actually used his brain and maybe spoke with ML about it before? Him not understanding his family's situation is his fault for not caring about it enough to ask or find out.

 

Literally QH's issue is he does not think which were allowed to call out , he never thinks for one second he is like a virgin getting horny over a girl hes just met or something he cant think past lust or something.

 

Also he was NEVER considerate towards ML considering ML continued to tell him over and over again and he never thought about anything, his character is second lead male that has nothing to do with rivalling against GTY or not. 

 

In-regards to GTY he does have a bad reputation even if its just having a Mistress and two kids before actually getting married that is already a bad reputation, they may have been sleeping with maids but rarely were those maids allowed to become concubines or keep their children. 

 

I totally disagree that the drama is making GTY look to good maybe he is just a good character put in bad situations. Literally every male back then was school/drink/sex , you said just before that to understand the situation yet call GTY out for doing what everyone else does? The drama already said that he failed due to the brother's bad mouthing him. GTY is not pure and does not need to be pure. 

 

I think they portrayed GTY very realistically back then people did exactly what GTY is doing , people will compare GTY and QH because they are both male leads who are after the female lead its natural i dont think you should say people should not compare.

 

Also you say GTY grew up without being loved but his step mother was "loving" him openly at least so he was not totally alone and his other brother seems fine with him.

 

 

[Golden Flower]

1 hour ago, hello210 said:

But I will have to agree that they had to showcase some good attributes in GTY to counterbalance the having mistress, kids, and possible first marriage (in novel) because there were comments from viewers in Viki that they were no longer interested once they saw this and realized that ML was his first and only.  

Do you mean those viewers dropped because “ML was NOT GTY’s first and only”? You forgot to put “not”? 

 

Those viewers might be middle and high school teenagers without life experiences  who are naive like QH   expecting Cinderella story. 

 

In accordance with society that time, even QH should have at least 1-2 tongfan maid though novel did not mention. (QH was not mentioned much even as CB in the novel).   

 

I do not understand why Chinese drama viewers fair better with emperors having many wives and concubines but not with regular males having concubines. I get that even with emperors, some viewers still want loving only one girl though they might have many feis and sleeping with them as long as it is not shown on screen. 

 

I think in '09, FSF was in the drama "four women conflict" in which he has three wives (main wife and two concubines) as well as a woman he is flirting with. Ady An played third wife whom he actually fell in love and married in as concubine (ZLY also played a small character as  maid of first wife). I wonder how international audience and younger viewers respond that drama back then. (I haven't really watched it as it seems super tragic and cliche being Yuzheng’s writing. Only read review and seen clips on youtube). 

 

 

[ForgottenSoulx]

58 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

Lol. Really?? 

I can't take those cocky guys that would hand grab the girls and all! 

I like shows with the guys having a bit more tact, and the girls having a backbone to stand for themselves. 

Lol. Explained why I come to like ZLY's shows. Read somewhere she has tendencies to choose characters that are opinionated to a certain extent to play! 

 

 

Ahhh. I don't know what happened in the book. Never read it. Only from random spoilers and snippets from chingus here. 

I guess I can understand if his life turna out to be miserable. We know that because we've seen/read the ending. But in any of our life, until we walk down the path, we wouldn't really know if its for better or worse. We could only deduce based on the info on hand at the time. 

In the end, it's a bit of a poker game isn't it?

Sometimes we get good cards, other times we are dealt with bad cards. Either way, we play our hands to the best of our ability, and haven't we seen winners with bad cards?

 

I like the stories of like rich guys and feisty female's, This is one of my favourites. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

56 minutes ago, linhlinh111 said:

 

Yes it's a little bit too modern but not impossible. In later dynasties of China (the Ming and the Qing), the women were very restricted and they were not allowed to have any interaction with non-family men. But in the previous periods (Song and earlier) things were more relaxed. Women were still bound to their family and didn't have a say in marriage, but they were allowed to socialize more and they could interact with other men as long as there was an elder/ a male family member/ a maid presented. We see in the drama many scene in which ML met in private with QH and it was okay cuz it happened in a public place and both their maid/servant were there. Also the class they were attending was technically family-owned. It means they invited a professor to their home to teach their children, and both of the brothers were always there, QH and GTY could come bc they had a close relationship to the family, and there were a curtain to separate male/female student, so it was totally possible.

 

People act like all women were second class yet there are loads of example's of women going over men like Princess general's and empresses taking control of kingdom's etc.. yet a concubine daughter being a steward is to much? 

[ForgottenSoulx]

7 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

Do you mean those viewers dropped because “ML was NOT GTY’s first and only”? You forgot to put “not”? 

 

Those viewers might be middle and high school teenagers without life experiences  who are naive like QH   expecting Cinderella story. 

 

In accordance with society that time, even QH should have at least 1-2 tongfan maid though novel did not mention. (QH was not mentioned much even as CB in the novel).   

 

I do not understand why Chinese drama viewers fair better with emperors having many wives and concubines but not with regular males having concubines. I get that even with emperors, some viewers still want loving only one girl though they might have many feis and sleeping with them as long as it is not shown on screen. 

 

I think in '09, FSF was in the drama "four women conflict" in which he has three wives (main wife and two concubines) as well as a woman he is flirting with. Ady An played third wife whom he actually fell in love and married in as concubine (ZLY also played a small character as  maid of first wife). I wonder how international audience and younger viewers respond that drama back then. (I haven't really watched it as it seems super tragic and cliche being Yuzheng’s writing. Only read review and seen clips on youtube). 

 

 

 

Anyone whose watched any Harem drama can accept this GTY situation very easily, back then literally all male's had many wife's unless you were hidden gay ;p

[hello210]

1 hour ago, Golden Flower said:

Do you mean those viewers dropped because “ML was NOT GTY’s first and only”? You forgot to put “not”? 

 

Those viewers might be middle and high school teenagers without life experiences  who are naive like QH   expecting Cinderella story. 

 

In accordance with society that time, even QH should have at least 1-2 tongfan maid though novel did not mention. (QH was not mentioned much even as CB in the novel).   

 

I do not understand why Chinese drama viewers fair better with emperors having many wives and concubines but not with regular males having concubines. I get that even with emperors, some viewers still want loving only one girl though they might have many feis and sleeping with them as long as it is not shown on screen. 

 

I think in '09, FSF was in the drama "four women conflict" in which he has three wives (main wife and two concubines) as well as a woman he is flirting with. Ady An played third wife whom he actually fell in love and married in as concubine (ZLY also played a small character as  maid of first wife). I wonder how international audience and younger viewers respond that drama back then. (I haven't really watched it as it seems super tragic and cliche being Yuzheng’s writing. Only read review and seen clips on youtube). 

 

 

Lol...yeah, I went back and added NOT...thanks @Golden Flower. You brought up a good question about Chinese drama viewers. I’ve only started watching C-dramas and K-dramas in the last year and haven’t really seen a lot of the older dramas. I’ve only looked up old dramas of actors/actresses after seeing one of their current dramas.  I mostly grew up on old Chinese musical dramas like the Butterfly couple, or 7th Maiden from Heaven (probably not their actual titles ) and Kung Fu Theater that my grandparents loved watching and then Thai dramas. Historical Thai dramas have the same themes with having concubines both by Royalty and regular males. And then there’s some modern Thai dramas where the dads have a second household with a mistress. From comments I’ve seen on Viki, there seems to be a mixture of comments wanting to drop it and then those that changed their minds after finding out he’ll be faithful to ML. Most international non-Asian comments I saw were about getting a glimpse of the culture in that time period. But audiences have changed from ‘09 till now and also there’s also reality tv shows in the US and I think other places that show polygamy too.

No offense, but I say find an idol drama for Cinderella stories 

 

Also, in many cultures, it’s common for men to be “sowing some wild oats” before settling down in marriage so no one is really “pure”. That crazy Sun mother-in-law had me cracking up when she said she could get her nephew some maids to take care of his needs so he can be prepared when ML is ready to be married. I couldn’t believe she actually said it to all the ladies present. But like @Golden Flower and @ForgottenSoulx said, it’s normal for men in that time period to have multiple bed partners before and after marriage. In the drama, it seemed like QH wasn’t even allowed to have relations with his personal maids because if his mother thought they were trying to get QH’s attention, she would sell them or in the case of the new maid that looked like ML, have them beat to death. That is another reason why I could see how naive and sheltered he was and how controlling his mother was.