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[Current Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦

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7 minutes ago, hello210 said:

That’s my thoughts too on how it would be if she had married Doc He. No powerful position, but more peaceful and mutual respect like Grandma expected. I really try to look at it based on the time period. And in that time period women only had the opportunities granted to them by their positions in marriage and the household which is why Molan tried so hard to get QH and then 6th Liang son due to her delusions of marrying a noble. Another alternate route if 6th Liang son’s mom had her way, her son would marry ML cause she really liked her.

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And unlike what Molan will have to go through, I bet since Madame Liang liked ML, she would back her up if a concubine tried to overstep her place. However since she doesn’t like Molan, Molan will end up like Da Niang due to a favored concubine.

 

I also try to think in the perspective of their time. And exactly as you say that’s why ambitious woman and family go crazy for the best young master to elevate themselves. It’s sad how the sons are used to elevate the family through merits and the daughters used for arrange marriages. Lol No wonder the kids must be sheltered because they don’t want them to be too adventurous with a open mind. 

I don’t like the route of the 6th Laing son because even if his mother likes Minglan there’s soo much she can do to protect here that’s why it’s the same in Sheng household the husband favoring the concubine over the main wife. 

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3 minutes ago, hello210 said:

Lol...yeah, GTY isn’t a good prospect for anyone at the moment and he knows that too. Neither of them even thinks about the other in that way presently. I like that he messes with her like that. His smile when he was walking away like “haha, I got you fired up” just like the polo match taunt. At this point, GTY is only her savior and brother’s friend. And ML is just his friends kid sister, a baby, that he can tease.

I think GTY cheekiness makes (later) ML fall for him

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Spoiler

In the ep 23 & 24 teaser, ML gets to spend more time with Doc He right?  Was that ML’s cousin crying? 

 

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2 minutes ago, hello210 said:
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In the ep 23 & 24 teaser, ML gets to spend more time with Doc He right?  Was that ML’s cousin crying? 

 

 

Spoiler

Zhang hanyun, zly best friend played shulan, the cousin of Doc He. She was the obstacle to ml&dr he relationship. 

 

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One thing about GTY, he is imperfect, erred and made misguided decisions but when push came to shove and when cornered, he stands up tall and takes responsibility without question. That is an attribute of an able and honest man.

 

GTY had grown up in his father's house tolerating prejudice from his own family. He had also known that his mother suffered from prejudice even though she was the legal wife of his father who saved his father's noble family from the poor house because she belonged to the merchant class which is one higher than the peasant class. His father treated his mother and her son like a dirty stains on his noble robe. TY had known from his nanny how his mother died. GTY from his childhood had this mindset to see women in distress as reminders of his wronged mother especially those whom he thinks are "suffering" from maltreatment. Manniang who may have sensed this, played his weakness to the max like a virtuoso conductor. When TY went to confront ML regarding the loss of his marriage proposal to Yan Ran and accused ML of causing it, ML informed him that Yan Ran's granny had a nose bleed and fainted, then said "the funny thing is the family already had given their consent to the marriage but then your woman Manniang came in and caused havoc and got the family to rescind the consent". It is as if TY did not hear the "approved" part but only the Manniang part and started defending Manniang and hence the argument. Another example was in the polo grounds where Yan Ran and Min Lang played polo. He noticed both girls as he was delighted, laughed and applauded ML's athleticism but the one whom he asked about was the girl, Yan Ran, who was "crying", her family background and the reasons for her distress. Of all the girls present, the crying girl got his attention. He helped the 8 year old ML get a doctor for her mother. He is soft hearted towards those whom he thinks are tormented owning to his experience and his mother's experience of prejudice, cruelty and injustice. 

 

However when it was time to face the inevitable consequence, and when he finally found out about Manniang and confronted her with the lies, GTY said, "I am to blame, it is my fault for being the fool" and admitted that nanny had warned him many times but he refused to listen. That was the start of inspired change, lightning had struck. That night must have been a time of self examination, self discovery. Blaming was no longer in the process, taking responsibility was. He had told Manniang to leave and to never appear before him again. 

 

The last time GTY spoke to his father, he knelt and embraced him and asked his father to tell him the truth. His father instead vomited blood and fainted. GTY really was not asking for confession from his father but he was looking for his father to accept him as his beloved son that he loved his mother and say the simple words "I am sorry" and I believe in you. 

 

The revelation of Manniang's betrayal and his father's death has forced him to make necessary changes in his life by thinking and acting differently,  starting with sending Manniang away and leaving his father's house his family. He can still be compassionate to those in distress but now he knows to look deeper for trusworthiness and that he does not have to attach himself to evil people just because they call themselves family. It is the start of a new way of life

 

I think that after the Manniang debacle he will no longer automatically go for "weeping and pitiful me" women but will look for and chase women with chutzpah and brains who will swear they would rather climb the Himalayas unclothed and walk the Gobi dessert barefoot than marry him like ML.

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9 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

 

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Zhang hanyun, zly best friend played shulan, the cousin of Doc He. She was the obstacle to ml&dr he relationship. 

 

Thanks. That’s what I was suspecting but my broken mandarin needs help from the subs. :D I’m actually enjoying watching raw followed by subs. Should have kept up my mandarin lessons from childhood. It’s not as easy to learn conversational mandarin from watching dramas as it was learning conversational Thai that way. 

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@zenya22 Great synopsis on GTY. I think that’s what makes him an endearing character that you want to root for. It would be different if he didn’t own up to his own inadequacies but he takes responsibility for allowing himself to be tricked by all of them. 

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1 hour ago, cherubstomato said:

Thank you I forgot it is not Manniang but the other main wife....

saw the spoilers for episode 23-24 I must say FSF looks better with beard and mustache lol 

I love him with the mustache, he looks so handsome chingu. I am so :wub::wub::wub:  cheer2-onion-head-emoticon.gifcheer2-onion-head-emoticon.gifcheer2-onion-head-emoticon.gif  @leeza77  I felt so bad for Ming Lan. I saw the clip with He , I was so mad. The man was flirting with her right in front of everyone. His cousin was ogling him like he was a lollipop. smh smh :angry::angry:

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2 hours ago, hello210 said:

To be honest, I think QH’s mom won’t regret it because it doesn’t matter about ML’s abilities if the opportunity isn’t there and within QH’s household, she wouldn’t have that opportunity.  Even though QH’s household currently has high standing, the imperial court is in limbo and in order for them to keep their standing, they need QH to marry someone that comes from a similar or more powerful family. If ML was the daughter of a royal concubine with a powerful father, QH’s mother would probably overlook the concubine born status because of the connection. By the time all of them start getting married, I think the royal faction that QH’s family supports looses power so they really needed his wife to be from a powerful family. 

I agree at this time period the dynasty is a political hotbed because young princes are vying for position to be heir to the throne. QH family belongs to the royal family as his mother is a princess which means that he is somehow related to the emperor as maybe grandfather or grand uncle, somewhere there is a connection. Royal family marriages are business or political transactions or both. Remember the time when the 3rd brother went carousing with the young men from noble families and was mouthing off about possible heir to the throne? There were many young men in that drinking hall but because the 3rd brother's father, Sheng Hong was the lowest rank, he was the one who was detained at the palace by the emperor for 2 days as an example to the other families. Imagine the rumors that will buzz when neigbors, other nobles or ministers find out? It is not only the Sheng family who will be under scrutiny but so will the Ducal family and it will not be about the marriage proposal but about political connections and intentions which the Sheng family are innocent of and do not want. Neither does the ducal family. I am wondering how QH, a highly educated heir to the Duke, not ponder or think about this. But then strong sexual attraction, infatuation must have taken over his head. And as you said, QH mama is also looking after her family survival. 

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6 minutes ago, UnniSarah said:

I love him with the mustache, he looks so handsome chingu. I am so :wub::wub::wub:  cheer2-onion-head-emoticon.gifcheer2-onion-head-emoticon.gifcheer2-onion-head-emoticon.gif  @leeza77  I felt so bad for Ming Lan. I saw the clip with He , I was so mad. The man was flirting with her right in front of everyone. His cousin was ogling him like he was a lollipop. smh smh :angry::angry:

Spoiler

Dr he actually quite a sweet guy. Sweet bashful smile. Good conversationist. Moderate temperament. An ideal for minglan. But because of the cousin, she become obsolete. Dr. He was a too soft guy to reject the cousin adoration. Thus, his relationship with minglan doomed to be failed. Beside, minglan was still heartbroken from her lost love with QH. 

 

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3 hours ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

If you know you cant be with someone and they ask do you have feeling's for me and answer nothing then you clearly leading them on. 

How is she leading him on when she clearly explained why it can't be whether she has feelings or not? She does not say that she does not like him because that is not the reason it can't be, but the more important reasons that she will suffer because of the rules of that time about women, family and marriages. Telling him that she has feelings for him and what then? She is being practical. He is not all that powerful as he thinks he is to protect her, otherwise he would not be begging mama for help to make a proposal and he would know that mama will not definitely not help. Whether she tells him she has feelings for him or not does not matter, what he wants is not going to happen and she won't let it because she will not put herself in a situation where she will suffer just like her mother did. Do you know that the first wife can sell the concubine? 

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1 hour ago, hello210 said:
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In the ep 23 & 24 teaser, ML gets to spend more time with Doc He right?  Was that ML’s cousin crying? 

 

 

1 hour ago, leeza77 said:

 

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Zhang hanyun, zly best friend played shulan, the cousin of Doc He. She was the obstacle to ml&dr he relationship. 

 

 

If its Shulan then she is ML's cousin....who will be getting a divorce soon. Her husband brought his pregnant concubine in the house. The Sheng elder called his family and they were so arrogant and insulting...that Sheng granny( the other one...not ML's) decided to get her grand daughter free from her a.hole inlaws.

 He Hongwen's cousin is called Cao something.

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1 hour ago, zenya22 said:

How is she leading him on when she clearly explained why it can't be whether she has feelings or not? She does not say that she does not like him because that is not the reason it can't be, but the more important reasons that she will suffer because of the rules of that time about women, family and marriages. Telling him that she has feelings for him and what then? She is being practical. He is not all that powerful as he thinks he is to protect her, otherwise he would not be begging mama for help to make a proposal and he would know that mama will not definitely not help. Whether she tells him she has feelings for him or not does not matter, what he wants is not going to happen and she won't let it because she will not put herself in a situation where she will suffer just like her mother did. Do you know that the first wife can sell the concubine? 

 

It can be considered leading him on if she doesn't answer. If she was determined, you think she couldn't have lied and answered 'No' to his question. Call it a fib or a white lie. She has lived in that vipers nest for how long now?? Lying and half truth's must have saved her from a lot of trouble. I admit she may harbor feelings for him or maybe she's just flattered by his attention.....but her first and foremost consideration in this matter should be her reputation. Whether QH married her or not her name will be ruined if they were even discovered together alone. 

For me, I feel she's not being firm enough. All throughout the scene when she was listing the ways she can be ruined because of him...her tone felt so calm and casual....like they were speaking about something other than risks for a woman's virtue...but it did work on QH...he got depressed and lost a little hope but then she ruined it all by not answering his last question. 

Even during the parting gift scene....You know even smiling at someone can be considered leading him on...which seems to be the case with QH. He can't differentiate between happy smile and a sad one.

I think fault here lies with the changes in ML's character for the drama. She's supposed to be this sensible, practical person who knows how the world works. In the book it was because she was an adult in a child's body, who was jaded with people and life. And so she wanted her second chance at life to go smoothly and without any hassle. QH being attracted to her brought trouble for her from the start. So when it looked like his affections went deeper....she firmly drew a line between them. She never even gave him the opportunity to confess.

But since drama can't show transmigration.....they have to write in a heartbreak for ML to give her character some growth which is making her character seem indecisive. 

In the book I think she cried more when He Hongwen disappointed her then loosing QH.

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At this point GTY and ML are the underdogs. GTY is lacking compared to QH but also to He. He is the worst choice on paper for Minglan. And Minglan compared to her sisters isn't a legitimate daughter and she isn't as loved and protected as Molan. This is why it's interesting that they succeed in the end.

ML could succeed because of his status and the freedom he gave her. With He she wouldn't have had the status (and imo the freedom) while with QH she wouldn't have had the freedom (and even the status would be unstable because of his mother).Even with her qualities she would be fine, but not a leader.  However it's not just GTY, in the book ML helps him a lot and they work as a couple. She is part of his success.

 

I don't think ML leads QH on, but she is infatuated and it shows.  She explains everything to him, she avoids any misunderstanding, but I can sense her puppy love. And probably he does too. That being said, I don't believe it's real love or she would have picked the battle. What I like about the drama  is that since the beignning it shows glimpses of her fighting (with the pin, with Manniang) for what is important to her. This is why I sort of prefer the ML of the drama.

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I think I can see where @ForgottenSoulx and @dito are coming from finally. 

She should've told QH she didn't like him, even if it's a lie to give him a clear cut answer. Because in QH's mind, he could only process 2 options: she likes him, he's got green light. She doesn't like him, the end. 

And to a certain extent, it sure seems like QH sorta glance through everything she said other than the fact that she didn't say she dislike him. 

 

And this is where there are different opinions on whether or not she's leading him on. 

 

I thought she was just being honest. She didn't want to lie to him, because he is a good person, and she does like him. 

So she couldn't bring herself to lie to him to his face. But she told him the full truth, that love isn't everything. It isn't a fairytale, and it sure isn't all encompassing and the sole consideration. 

There simply are too many issues and problems that could not be solved, and she's not willing to gamble everything she has on him. 

That the gap between them is simply too big to reconcile, and she simply has too much to lose. Because if anything goes wrong (which in her eyes, she knows they will go wrong), it would be all over for her. While he could restart again, she would never have the same opportunity. 

 

It's not the lack of mutual feelings. It's not because she doesn't like him. But it's their circumstances that would never allow them to be together unless she only be his concubine. 

But as she said, "rather a farmer's wife, than a lord's concubine". 

 

I felt ML respected him enough to tell him the truth, than to make up White lies or excuses. 

That he should be sensible enough to consider the consequences of his actions that's driven by nothing but love. 

Which is why I didn't think she was leading him on. Just my 2 cents worth.  

 

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2 hours ago, zenya22 said:

One thing about GTY, he is imperfect, erred and made misguided decisions but when push came to shove and when cornered, he stands up tall and takes responsibility without question. That is an attribute of an able and honest man.

 

GTY had grown up in his father's house tolerating prejudice from his own family. He had also known that his mother suffered from prejudice even though she was the legal wife of his father who saved his father's noble family from the poor house because she belonged to the merchant class which is one higher than the peasant class. His father treated his mother and her son like a dirty stains on his noble robe. TY had known from his nanny how his mother died. GTY from his childhood had this mindset to see women in distress as reminders of his wronged mother especially those whom he thinks are "suffering" from maltreatment. Manniang who may have sensed this, played his weakness to the max like a virtuoso conductor. When TY went to confront ML regarding the loss of his marriage proposal to Yan Ran and accused ML of causing it, ML informed him that Yan Ran's granny had a nose bleed and fainted, then said "the funny thing is the family already had given their consent to the marriage but then your woman Manniang came in and caused havoc and got the family to rescind the consent". It is as if TY did not hear the "approved" part but only the Manniang part and started defending Manniang and hence the argument. Another example was in the polo grounds where Yan Ran and Min Lang played polo. He noticed both girls as he was delighted, laughed and applauded ML's athleticism but the one whom he asked about was the girl, Yan Ran, who was "crying", her family background and the reasons for her distress. Of all the girls present, the crying girl got his attention. He helped the 8 year old ML get a doctor for her mother. He is soft hearted towards those whom he thinks are tormented owning to his experience and his mother's experience of prejudice, cruelty and injustice. 

 

However when it was time to face the inevitable consequence, and when he finally found out about Manniang and confronted her with the lies, GTY said, "I am to blame, it is my fault for being the fool" and admitted that nanny had warned him many times but he refused to listen. That was the start of inspired change, lightning had struck. That night must have been a time of self examination, self discovery. Blaming was no longer in the process, taking responsibility was. He had told Manniang to leave and to never appear before him again. 

 

The last time GTY spoke to his father, he knelt and embraced him and asked his father to tell him the truth. His father instead vomited blood and fainted. GTY really was not asking for confession from his father but he was looking for his father to accept him as his beloved son that he loved his mother and say the simple words "I am sorry" and I believe in you. 

 

The revelation of Manniang's betrayal and his father's death has forced him to make necessary changes in his life by thinking and acting differently,  starting with sending Manniang away and leaving his father's house his family. He can still be compassionate to those in distress but now he knows to look deeper for trusworthiness and that he does not have to attach himself to evil people just because they call themselves family. It is the start of a new way of life

 

I think that after the Manniang debacle he will no longer automatically go for "weeping and pitiful me" women but will look for and chase women with chutzpah and brains who will swear they would rather climb the Himalayas unclothed and walk the Gobi dessert barefoot than marry him like ML.

@zenya22  Well said chingu on GTY's personality. clap-cheetah-emoticon.gifclap-cheetah-emoticon.gif  I couldn't find any fault in GTY, actually I liked his character very much. He seemed to be a man who love knowledge , smart and not a snob. I  especially loved his answer on who had the right to inherit the family businesss (it was the episode where he was dying to know Ming Lan's answer).  One reason I fell hard for this character is because he didn't have an easy life, his entire family hate him, his family is his enemy and all the man wanted was love. Can you imagine living in a household where everyone hated you and did everything they can to destroy you.  It seems I was hoping that his father toward the end felt sorry for how he raised him but it looks like even in the end, his father never loved him.  

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Would also just like to say how much I love ML. We get rare glances of her brilliance, and ZLY has absolutely smashed it! 

 

I especially love the way she threw Manning down at Yanran's place. 

So calm, so collected, yet every word hits home. 

And it was absolutely hilarious to see Manning's face when ML said "Shut your month. You can choose to roll out, or we'll get someone to tie U up and throw U out". 

 

And we see how level headed she is when she explained to granny on why she defended Yanran. Because she weighed everything in her mind. And because she felt a good person like Yanran should not have such ending...

It was deeper than merely because she's her friend...

 

And if I may add, her bickering with GTY, totally disregarding her status, was just absolutely adorable. 

Totally fangirling here. 

 

Just makes me feel that ML and GTY always seem to have an unspoken understanding. 

Like it felt a lil like she always seem to see through the facade that GTY puts up. That he's not as bad a man he portrays himself to be. 

And GTY somehow always managed to get her to show a bit more of herself. 

I always believe there are people who brings the best out of each of us, and I think both ML and GTY has the ability to bring out the best of the other...

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Does anyone know why manniang only took her son (not both or none) when she run away? is it because the son isn't GTY biological son? or she has another motive? she cried in the bedroom and suddenly she stopped like she got lightbulb idea then the scene was cut 

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Yes they are yin and yang.... The best relationship is when you compliment each other not just with similarities but with differences and help make each other to be better person.... My impression of GTY is a responsible and loyal man. 

FSF acting when he exploded telling Manniangs to GTHO of his life was so raw and I got emotional.... His acting was very well dilivered. I could feel the pain of the betrayal on top of what happened prior. I sort of felt bad for Manniang but felt even sad for the kids... 

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