Quantcast
Jump to content
angelangie

[Current Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦

Recommended Posts

11 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

Summoning ml was a trap to kill her. It's stepmom plan to kill ml no matter what as ml was considered gtu achilles heel. If ml died gty will be destroyed, no longer he can come back. Took the opportunity to destroy the enemy to thr root so that there was no risk of ml&gty to raise again. 

First, it was already shown stepmom already regarded GTY being dead, telling GTW that ML's side is already preparing funeral clothes, and gleefully asking him whether he feels happy since the whole Marquis house is his now before ED's eunuchs came to get ML. I also don't know stepmom is powerful enough to have eunuch of ED or noble consort in her disposal. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

First, it was already shown stepmom already regarded GTY being dead, telling GTW that ML's side is already preparing funeral clothes, and gleefully asking him whether he feels happy since the whole Marquis house is his now before ED's eunuchs came to get ML. I also don't know stepmom is powerful enough to have eunuch of ED or noble consort in her disposal. 

Tit for tat.. Stepmom helped ED framed gty. ED give her favour to kill her enemy 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't actually watched the recent episodes (still waiting for subs :tears:) so I'm deducing based on the earlier episodes and analysis. 

 

Whilst I do feel that ML having to go through another hell, and a world of pain trying to free GTY doesn't do much justice especially to GTY's character to still kept her in the dark, there's an explanation I could think of. 

In earlier post by @dito and @linhlinh111, it was mentioned that in the book, during their 2nd big argument, ML said that love is not measured by the intelligent things, but by stupid illogical actions one does for the other. 

Possibly, this is the show's way to demonstrate her love. 

May not necessarily agree with the way the scriptwriters do it, but I could understand. 

 

Personally, the way things are going, it seems like scriptwriters wanted to end the show with a bang. Bringing everyone back for the finale basically. If CL is not dead, I'm pretty sure they will bring her back into the scene too. 

Another pity, considering the show did extremely well in subtlety. 

Excelled in being quietly powerful.

 

However, I can understand why ED wants ML dead (based on my 21st century lense if I may add).

The biggest threat in ML for ED isn't her status, her power, her family background, or her wealth. 

Her biggest threat, and ML's biggest asset lies in her wit and intelligence.

They can take her title away, her wealth and everything away but they can't take away her brain. And that's why ED wants her dead. Because she knows ML isn't on her side, and will never be. 

ML's a strategist, with or without GTY, she's capable of things that ED couldn't think of. 

Together, ML-GTY combo is lethal, but even apart, they are dangerous on their own. 

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, minglan1 said:

How is the story of minglan faring among TV audiences? Are they also critical of historical discrepancies in costume,props,screenplay?Just curious since in some countries TV audiences aren't too mindful about these matters.

 

Chinese audience were criticizing the grammer in the earlier episodes.....I don't think they are going to let this degree of logic fail...that lasted 10-12 episodes, go without a word.

 

3 hours ago, Golden Flower said:

That is what I have been saying in my yesterday's post after I saw the previews. You have been thinking he was just being demoted. I guess the writers can say that property confistication wasn't included in the decree or two compounds being combined and considered as Marquis fu but it doesn't make sense with the criminal law of that era. Did you notice the decree also convicted him of being greedy and seizing properties of civilians (meaning bai family's properties since he was being sued for illegally taking away by his uncle in throne room) but then the emperor didn't take away any of those properties? Huan Wang also didn't go to war though he requested.

 

ML's grandma already reminded her that it would be unacceptable for her to wear her noble lady attire since her title is gone with GTY's. She basically told grandma she no longer care anymore and she just wanted to do her best for GTY.  She also said she was there at Sheng house to say goodbye to old lady, basically she is prepared to be arrested or died. That's why next morning after ML left SH told grandma that Sheng house doesn't only have ML as a child, it is only Sheng house in the capital but also main house in Youyang over 100 lives at stakes and CB shouldn't be involved at all. SH was scared to death when he tried to pull ML away after over 24 hrs of drum beating. 

I have already pointed out property confiscations and all the wrong things of the last two episodes in my previous post, the one before your quoted one in pg 261. 

 

@dito It was also pearl necklaces given to Sheng girls by QH's mom in the novel. It was in pretty early chapters ~30s since ML was only around 11 at that time. 

 

I hate to say this but I'm so glad I'm no longer alone in being unhappy with drama writers :D

I was so alone when I started pointing out little details of their inconsistencies during third week.  

 

Some little bit of inconsistencies, I can explain away....but my mind is not that imaginative that it can cover up a huge black hole of nonsense.:lol:

So I'm happy to keep you company in our misery till the finish line.:D

 

3 hours ago, matrim said:

Before the imperial edict ML was a noble lady and had the right to wear that outfit, but after she lost her title she definitely shouldn't wear it. A commoner pretending to be a noble lady was not a small matter, especially as ML was using the status to appeal for her husband. Any official from ED's side could easily use it as an excuse to sue her and add more criminal charges against GTY. By doing this ML didn't help GTY, she's actually bringing more trouble to him. I know it looked impressive but honestly she should just wear normal clothes. 

 

Wouldn't wearing normal clothes to appeal have had even more impact? As ML would be appealing as a common citizen....not as a noble woman. Emperor would be duty bound to listen to her.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Golden Flower  

I've only watched up to ep 69 subbed so I'm not too clear on the sentencing decree. The properties in question are the Bai properties? So this is really a family issue not public corruption per se.

 

GTY is a popular figure within military circles and has saved the Emperor and son numerous times. The Emperor is an absolute monarch so he can decide the penalty at his discretion. Even without the pretext of fooling ED, would he really have such a man who has given such service, made penniless and homeless. Why is it a given that he must lose his house?

 

A family could also lose its noble title (have it rescinded by the Emperor) and become commoners. Its not a given that the title must be passed down etc. I guess that's why Stepmom is panicking, losing the title doesn't mean GTW will automatically get it.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

I haven't actually watched the recent episodes (still waiting for subs :tears:) so I'm deducing based on the earlier episodes and analysis. 

 

Whilst I do feel that ML having to go through another hell, and a world of pain trying to free GTY doesn't do much justice especially to GTY's character to still kept her in the dark, there's an explanation I could think of. 

In earlier post by @dito and @linhlinh111, it was mentioned that in the book, during their 2nd big argument, ML said that love is not measured by the intelligent things, but by stupid illogical actions one does for the other. 

Possibly, this is the show's way to demonstrate her love. 

May not necessarily agree with the way the scriptwriters do it, but I could understand. 

 

Personally, the way things are going, it seems like scriptwriters wanted to end the show with a bang. Bringing everyone back for the finale basically. If CL is not dead, I'm pretty sure they will bring her back into the scene too. 

Another pity, considering the show did extremely well in subtlety. 

Excelled in being quietly powerful.

 

However, I can understand why ED wants ML dead (based on my 21st century lense if I may add).

The biggest threat in ML for ED isn't her status, her power, her family background, or her wealth. 

Her biggest threat, and ML's biggest asset lies in her wit and intelligence.

They can take her title away, her wealth and everything away but they can't take away her brain. And that's why ED wants her dead. Because she knows ML isn't on her side, and will never be. 

ML's a strategist, with or without GTY, she's capable of things that ED couldn't think of. 

Together, ML-GTY combo is lethal, but even apart, they are dangerous on their own. 

 

In the book, that was said in context for GTY to do stupid things for ML. ML had already shown she is capable of doing stupid things for the people she loved. The only reason she kept her heart closed off from GTY was exactly because of this...that he never behaved as if he had her in his heart. In her thinking, if he had punished manniang more severely, that meant he was scared for her life and did a stupid thing for her without thinking of consequences and only reason a person does that is because they love them. Like granny for her...and her for granny...before and after the poisoning.

 

And for ED to see ML as a threat is not logical at this stage. ML's intelligence will be a threat to ED only if she had the power to control / advice people important enough to harm ED. ML, herself, alone was no threat to her. As seemingly even the emperor couldn't be bothered to listen to her grievances. And the empress was also refusing to see her hence ML had to disguise herself as a maid to see her.

  • Like 5
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congrats TSoML team & Thanks all supporters. 

Lets keep up the good ratings till finale.:thumbsup:

 

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm really worried seeing this scenes, poor minglan :tears: its the confiment syndrome, having too much mental stress & not enough rest. :sweatingbullets: But luckly minglan recover fast. :D

Yingbao is really good, such a great actress.:wub:

 

  • Like 5
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, minoku2209 said:

I'm really worried seeing this scenes, its the confiment syndrome, having too much mental stress & not enough rest. :sweatingbullets: But luckly minglan recover fast. :D

Yingbao is really good, such a great actress.:wub:

 

What a scene.. she must be laughing with disgust at all the "silliness" thats taking place. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I the only one that actually doesn't care much about the 'supposed inconsistency', like I know the writing will bring in some unthinkable and unmatched plot but still fitting for the drama.. I think we are all thinking too much at this point.. Somehow all these things match, somehow they seem unreasonable but that's the fictional part of the drama.. They could have gone for the simple, not over dramatic plot like just accusing him of leaving his post or not answering to the king's call when ML was giving birth.. But they went for the stupid excuse to aid downfall and also decreed him an exile but that's after he comes back from the supposed fight and that's when the decree will happen.. So I think, we are not just putting more attention to the dialogue because we think the plot has gotten unreasonable, however they still very much correlate to me, from a non realistic view.. I put all 'it should make sense' behind me when I'm watching a drama, because when it doesn't make sense, that's when it's a drama...the viewers might know it doesn't the make sense, but the characters are living in that not making sense life which makes it make sense.. So I think we all should think too deep into the plot or think too much as regards the novel and the drama, it will only cause more headaches, trust me.. :sweatingbullets:

  • Like 13
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

I haven't actually watched the recent episodes (still waiting for subs :tears:) so I'm deducing based on the earlier episodes and analysis. 

 

Whilst I do feel that ML having to go through another hell, and a world of pain trying to free GTY doesn't do much justice especially to GTY's character to still kept her in the dark, there's an explanation I could think of. 

In earlier post by @dito and @linhlinh111, it was mentioned that in the book, during their 2nd big argument, ML said that love is not measured by the intelligent things, but by stupid illogical actions one does for the other. 

Possibly, this is the show's way to demonstrate her love. 

May not necessarily agree with the way the scriptwriters do it, but I could understand. 

 

Personally, the way things are going, it seems like scriptwriters wanted to end the show with a bang. Bringing everyone back for the finale basically. If CL is not dead, I'm pretty sure they will bring her back into the scene too. 

Another pity, considering the show did extremely well in subtlety. 

Excelled in being quietly powerful.

 

However, I can understand why ED wants ML dead (based on my 21st century lense if I may add).

The biggest threat in ML for ED isn't her status, her power, her family background, or her wealth. 

Her biggest threat, and ML's biggest asset lies in her wit and intelligence.

They can take her title away, her wealth and everything away but they can't take away her brain. And that's why ED wants her dead. Because she knows ML isn't on her side, and will never be. 

ML's a strategist, with or without GTY, she's capable of things that ED couldn't think of. 

Together, ML-GTY combo is lethal, but even apart, they are dangerous on their own. 

A good point. I do think it's the script writers' intention to show ML's love for GTY. The love was so strong that she lost her head to beat the imperial drum. As the writers altered the plot a lot, the words you mentioned in the second argument can no longer be used in that scene, so they transferred these words into this bold and irrantional action. In a scene talking with QH and Shen Shi, ML admitted she hadn't thought about the effectiveness of beating the imperial drum and bringing the case to the emperor. She just felt it's unfair to treat GTY like that and she must seek justice for him. A clear sign that she had lost her mind. When ML handled Grandma poinsoning, furious as she was, she didn't lose her head. The bold actions proved to be effective, as she quickly gathered all the evidence and testomonies. Even if things went badly, she could still use them in the court to ensure the culprit was brought to justice. She challenged SH not simply to vent her anger, but to establish her position as master of the house. She needed the power to cotrol the situation. But GTY case was completely different. She had no say in this and no power to influence the decision. All she could wished for was emperor's good will and mercy. So beating the drum is actually her last resort. Grandma understood this was a desperate action for ML wearing noble lady's outfit would be a violation of the law. ML was prepared to risk her life to appeal for GTY, fulfilling her promise to GTY that she would sacrifice her life to repay him.

 

However, there's a flaw in this plot. Framing GTY was not a seperate case. It's a small part in a fierce power struggle. GTY had told ML the scenario long ago, and even if ML had lost her head then because of her love for GTY, shouldn't Grandma, a strategist, analyzed the whole matter for ML? Taking down GTY would greatly undermine the emperor's power, and Grandma should have realized the significance of this. The whole matter seemed rather strange as the emperor didn't defend GTY properly as if he was on ED's side. One may argue that he got suspicious of GTY for his close relationship with Prince Huan and afraid he might help Prince Huan to usurp the throne. But if he didn't trust GTY and Prince Huan, how could he give important mission as salt mines inspection to them? And compared with ED, wasn't this supposed "threat" not that great and immediate? Clear-headed as Grandma should have seen the big picture and clarified this for ML and advised her not to take rush actions. But I guess the writers wanted more drama and suspense so all the intelligent characters have to be stupid when needed. :lol: 

 

It's sad to see the drama plummeted after Grandma poisoning. All these assasinations, scheming plots and actions made me numb. They disrupted the rhythm of the drama and made me feel as if I'm watching a different drama now, a second rate palace farce instead of a high calibre family drama. I think the strength of the drama lies in its subtle depiction of family matters, relationship between characters, layered characterization and a good sense of humor, not in dramatic twists, exciting actions and to some extent, suspense. I'm afraid the writers are busy wrapping up all the lines and forget what they did right in the past episodes.

  • Like 12
  • LOL 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mooose said:

@Golden Flower  

I've only watched up to ep 69 subbed so I'm not too clear on the sentencing decree. The properties in question are the Bai properties? So this is really a family issue not public corruption per se.

 

GTY is a popular figure within military circles and has saved the Emperor and son numerous times. The Emperor is an absolute monarch so he can decide the penalty at his discretion. Even without the pretext of fooling ED, would he really have such a man who has given such service, made penniless and homeless. Why is it a given that he must lose his house?

 

A family could also lose its noble title (have it rescinded by the Emperor) and become commoners. Its not a given that the title must be passed down etc. I guess that's why Stepmom is panicking, losing the title doesn't mean GTW will automatically get it.

The decree listed a few of GTY wrong doings some of them are his bad behavior which are harder to translate for me though I kind of get the idea. Part of his conviction are making decision without fully investigating, killing official's family member, being greedy and confisticated civilian's properties. It didn't mention specifically which family properties. I'm assuming it is referring to Bai family since his Bai uncle sued him. I'm just pointing out the weakness in writing why list that as one of his wrongdoings if they don't plan to include rightful punishment which is taking away those properties. 

 

I'm not sure you know,....in feudal society in China, the title of nobility and some official position comes with fu (house) for the title holder. It is similar to University Provost for some older university in US. They live in Provost house on campus during their tenure but then they have to move when they resigned. In ep 36, GTY was bestowed a fu (imperial property) along with his title "captain of imperial city army" since he is a new official with high position who came with new emperor from Yuzhou.  If Chen garden is NOT next to Hou Fu, he would have already needed to return it to the emperor after he became Marquis and moved into Hou Fu. Since he lost both his military and marquis title in addition to being imprisoned and going to be exiled from being convicted, we're saying his crimes are not just family matter and they have been considered serious for emperor to make this decree.  Since Chen garden is still being separated from Hou fu and emperor not having designated anyone as Marquis, everyone who understands the rule of fu coming along with the title are saying, at least Chen garden should have been reclaimed along with general title. 

 

We're not saying confisticating everything owned by GTY and ML or other things and properties bestowed to GTY as punishment. They won't be penniless. They can buy a house with their own money (even a 5th grade official like SH can buy a house with his own money). GTY and ML have their own money and properties acquired and bestowed since GTY became general as well as money and property from Gu family (though they still need to share that with GTW) in addition to ML's dowry and GTY's bai inheritance. ML also has right to move into Hou Fu since she is still part of Gu family and first brach hasn't been financially separated between GTY and GTW. However, the writers might think that it is unnecessary since two fus have been merged legally (though there is still wall) and it is just one Marquis Fu. In the book, the house was never a concern since GTY was just demoted from his general position but never lost his Marquis title and two compounds were really merged (there is no wall). 

 

In reality without having scheme, emperor cannot leave this hereditary title thing unsettled as if there is no Marquis, Gu family is not supposed to get those taxes. Those hereditary noble title holding families have ancestors who greatly contributed to establishment of the dynasty and that's why they were given fu along with their title. The only way for those hereditary titles to be abolished is the whole clan is being convicted of crime or there is no one to continue inherit the title. If the emperor  is going to abolish Ningyue Hou title after GTY was convicted, stepmom will also lose her noble title and everyone needs to move out from Ningyue Hou Fu since it is imperial property.  They can still own other properties bestowed to them or purchased with their money. They will just lose the Hou Fu and taxes they got from their allocated number of households being Marquis.

 

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Suzzy San said:

Am I the only one that actually doesn't care much about the 'supposed inconsistency', like I know the writing will bring in some unthinkable and unmatched plot but still fitting for the drama.. I think we are all thinking too much at this point.. Somehow all these things match, somehow they seem unreasonable but that's the fictional part of the drama.. They could have gone for the simple, not over dramatic plot like just accusing him of leaving his post or not answering to the king's call when ML was giving birth.. But they went for the stupid excuse to aid downfall and also decreed him an exile but that's after he comes back from the supposed fight and that's when the decree will happen.. So I think, we are not just putting more attention to the dialogue because we think the plot has gotten unreasonable, however they still very much correlate to me, from a non realistic view.. I put all 'it should make sense' behind me when I'm watching a drama, because when it doesn't make sense, that's when it's a drama...the viewers might know it doesn't the make sense, but the characters are living in that not making sense life which makes it make sense.. So I think we all should think too deep into the plot or think too much as regards the novel and the drama, it will only cause more headaches, trust me.. :sweatingbullets:

Ha hq.. Agreed with you. Just enjoy the drama. 

  • Like 6
  • Love 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope we do get a sweet ending for Shitou and Xiatao too.

It was the so nice to see old friends of ML,aunt, Danju visiting during her son's ceremony...

  • Like 6
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with @Golden Flower the Emperor can't just take away the Marquis title. There are 2 types of noble title in feudal China: the non-inheritable ones (given to minor contributors) and inheritable ones (given to major contribution to the country). In heritable ones, those that were bestowed for people helping in establishing the dynasty are the most prestigious (like Gu family) and can't be ripped off bc some descendant committed a crime. The current emperor can only take away titles that he bestows himself (for those with major contribution in his time). Titles that were bestowed by previous Emperors can only be recalled under the crime of treason or similar level. However what he can do is leaving the title hanging, meaning he drags the time needed to make a decision on the heir. This dragging time can be months or years depending on his Majesty's preference. During this time, Stepmom's title is unchanged since she's still the previous Marquis's wife, and they can still keep their residence. But they will lose many privileges since women can only socialize in a small circle and no men in the house have noble title, so they can't socialize with other noble men. The role of men in families is very important. Even with the Marquis name, if no men in the house have the Marquis title then their status will drop drastically.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

Ha hq.. Agreed with you. Just enjoy the drama. 

As in, let's just enjoy the drama.. We are bringing a lot of realistic views about true history and protocols into the drama which is making it too deep opposite the light plot of the drama and that's why we are conscious of some things.. To me they make sense, but us thinking it doesn't make sense is what's making it not make sense....so we just shouldn't think too much because that when the drama becomes 'not a drama' but a memoir of real life.. Forget the real life time or what they do real life in that period, because to the writer, this is how her ear of minglan she imagined, not the Era of how it really is.. This is a piece of imagination and what the writer wants her imagination to look like, more like a fantasy that can't happen and wouldn't be so in real life.. So after all, it's just an idea adaptation from the novel not the duplicate for the novel.. So I think, some things not realistic, reasonable, is what the writer is going for eventually.. To us, it might be a writing or plot flaw, but to the writer, this is her poetic license to bring in her own ideal story of love achieved through obstacles. 

  • Like 8
  • Insightful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, matrim said:

It's sad to see the drama plummeted after Grandma poisoning. All these assasinations, scheming plots and actions made me numb. They disrupted the rhythm of the drama and made me feel as if I'm watching a different drama now, a second rate palace farce instead of a high calibre family drama. I think the strength of the drama lies in its subtle depiction of family matters, relationship between characters, layered characterization and a good sense of humor, not in dramatic twists, exciting actions and to some extent, suspense. I'm afraid the writers are busy wrapping up all the lines and forget what they did right in the past episodes.

 

Well said!

By adding all that drama, excitement, suspense and thriller they took away everything that was making this drama work and turned it into something that its not.

Sorry for cutting your post.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Suzzy San said:

As in, let's just enjoy the drama.. We are bringing a lot of realistic views about true history and protocols into the drama which is making it too deep opposite the light plot of the drama and that's why we are conscious of some things.. To me they make sense, but us thinking it doesn't make sense is what's making it not make sense....so we just shouldn't think too much because that when the drama becomes 'not a drama' but a memoir of real life.. Forget the real life time or what they do real life in that period, because to the writer, this is how her ear of minglan she imagined, not the Era of how it really is.. This is a piece of imagination and what the writer wants her imagination to look like, more like a fantasy that can't happen and wouldn't be so in real life.. So after all, it's just an idea adaptation from the novel not the duplicate for the novel.. So I think, some things not realistic, reasonable, is what the writer is going for eventually.. To us, it might be a writing or plot flaw, but to the writer, this is her poetic license to bring in her own ideal story of love achieved through obstacles. 

Well put.Dramas will deviate from doing  actual historical presentations most of the time or else it's  difficult to give us eye pleasing scenery,moments...

If they followed Northen Song dynasty depiction of women to the T...they would have to show foot binding of women..it started in this era..then we wouldn't  have had polo matches or ML running brandishing a sword. Some of my most enjoyable moments of the drama would have disappeared...There are other instances that I know from the study of Song era as not being an exact depiction..it's ok..it is a drama to help me relax and enjoy after all.

  • Like 7
  • Love 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...