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[Current Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦

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At least Gu 3rd son has a backbone. His mother slapped him because he said he will put forward Gu Ting Ye's son as the next Marquis.

 

Gu Ting Ye should never leave home. For the salt inspection hecreturn home, his house is on fire. This time he return his house is under seige. Both times there is a direct attack on his wife.

 

I wondet whether Miniang will stab a wooden doll as well.

 

Who is that lady who came with all her gold and jewelleries to buy back her "contract" papers?

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2 hours ago, Golden Flower said:

@martin @dito The writers kept the part about ML being part of family members of ministers who are against ED who were taken by ED people. However, currently, in drama, GTY is just a foot soldier, missing, assumed death and she is not even a noble lady. Also, why do they have ED soldiers as well as masked assassins from stepmom's side coming and attacking Chen garden. Also, I don't understand why there were no one guarding the entrance of Chen garden from stepmom's side though ML told them to guard well so that no one outside of her families and aides can go in and out when Xiang mama came to invite her. If I remember it correctly, fhere were only assassins in the book though rebellion was going on in the city streets, right?? 

 

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At this point, I really think that the writers really do not remember what was mentioned even just over 5 episodes ago. If I remember correctly, first daughter given birth by Chaunke survived the delivery though being big (it was mentioned by Daniang and RL during ML's first visit to Sheng family after getting married) but her second pregnancy ended up as miscarriage (mentioned later at girls' gathering at grandma before having family lunch). During her visit after grandma's poison accident, Molan mentioned to CB's wife that all her husband concubines pregnancy did not end up surviving and the one child survived two years ago did not live for long. But in today's episode, LH mentioned that the child being dead from having difficulty delivering.

 

In the novel the rebellion was mostly in the palace while in the streets, bandits attacked wealthy and noble families for money and properties. These attacks were not serious and long with the only exception of assault on Cheng Garden which was schemed by stepmom and led by GTW. In the drama ED sent soldiers to attack Cheng Garden. This was strategically pointless as ML was not a noble lady and a general's wife any more, and with the rumor of GTY's death she shouldn't be seen as a threat at all. There's not enough motive for ED to act like this. Instead of diverting resources, ED should focus her attention on controlling the emperor and the palace.

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39 minutes ago, matrim said:

In the novel the rebellion was mostly in the palace while in the streets, bandits attacked wealthy and noble families for money and properties. These attacks were not serious and long with the only exception of assault on Cheng Garden which was schemed by stepmom and led by GTW. In the drama ED sent soldiers to attack Cheng Garden. This was strategically pointless as ML was not a noble lady and a general's wife any more, and with the rumor of GTY's death she shouldn't be seen as a threat at all. There's not enough motive for ED to act like this. Instead of diverting resources, ED should focus her attention on controlling the emperor and the palace.

I wonder if ED was attacking because she was suspecting something since the Emperor didn’t force ML and crew out of Cheng Garden? 

 

33 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

Trailer..mn was really cruel 

 

She’s cruel/crazy enough to attack Rong’er :angry: and try to kill an innocent baby. Glad this trailer showed Momo get her with the club. 

 

Love that we get to see QH mature and finally start looking at his wife. They may have a more affectionate relationship than in the novel. Need to see the subbed version for better understanding but someone on YouTube said that the baby party was their idea for luring out whoever was trying to poison ML?? Don’t know if it’s right.

 

And docile Yanran actually bosses her husband around :lol: 

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2 hours ago, matrim said:

The plot of recent episodes is getting ridiculous. At the end of prison meeting scene, eunuch Li announced the imperial edict that both GTY and ML lost their title and GTY would be exiled after autumn. But after this ML wore her noble lady outfit, beat the imerial drum and appealed for GTY case. Isn't it an act of open defiance of emperor's order? In that era this act alone could lead to the death of ML and her whole family. After GTY and ML lost their title, ML could still live in Cheng Yuan and held party like a noble lady is beyond me. Shouldn't Cheng Yuan be confiscated after GTY lost his title and got demoted? And as you pointed out, ML was no longer a minister's wife and a noble lady, it makes no sense for a eunuch to announce the edict

 

Devil's advocate here.

 

The most serious cases would be treason and public corruption, which would lead to confiscation of assets, beheadings, slavery for family etc. In this case GTY is a merritorious official and all his issues are grey family issues, he didn't have his hand in the imperial cookie jar or plot rebellion. As an absolute monarch, a judgement from the emperor would not always be the same from the courts. He can choose, at his dicretion to mitigate a sentence or judgement. So yes, even if the emperor was publicly pissed, he wouldn't be extreme as to want one of his close aides homeless and penniless, on account of past services rendered.

 

ML wearing her robes in a 'last ditch' appeal, I don't  think is that big of a deal. She needs to look powerful.

 

Even as commoners, GTY and ML are still both from grand families (The Shens' were not titled, only scholars, but still considered a grand family). So their lifestyle and close circle of friends won't change that much.

 

The imperial family could summon anyone before them, even common furens or merchants. ML can still be summoned, even without a title.

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3 hours ago, matrim said:

The plot of recent episodes is getting ridiculous. At the end of prison meeting scene, eunuch Li announced the imperial edict that both GTY and ML lost their title and GTY would be exiled after autumn. But after this ML wore her noble lady outfit, beat the imerial drum and appealed for GTY case. Isn't it an act of open defiance of emperor's order? In that era this act alone could lead to the death of ML and her whole family. After GTY and ML lost their title, ML could still live in Cheng Yuan and held party like a noble lady is beyond me. Shouldn't Cheng Yuan be confiscated after GTY lost his title and got demoted? And as you pointed out, ML was no longer a minister's wife and a noble lady, it makes no sense for a eunuch to announce the edict. 

That is what I have been saying in my yesterday's post after I saw the previews. You have been thinking he was just being demoted. I guess the writers can say that property confistication wasn't included in the decree or two compounds being combined and considered as Marquis fu but it doesn't make sense with the criminal law of that era. Did you notice the decree also convicted him of being greedy and seizing properties of civilians (meaning bai family's properties since he was being sued for illegally taking away by his uncle in throne room) but then the emperor didn't take away any of those properties? Huan Wang also didn't go to war though he requested.

 

ML's grandma already reminded her that it would be unacceptable for her to wear her noble lady attire since her title is gone with GTY's. She basically told grandma she no longer care anymore and she just wanted to do her best for GTY.  She also said she was there at Sheng house to say goodbye to old lady, basically she is prepared to be arrested or died. That's why next morning after ML left SH told grandma that Sheng house doesn't only have ML as a child, it is only Sheng house in the capital but also main house in Youyang over 100 lives at stakes and CB shouldn't be involved at all. SH was scared to death when he tried to pull ML away after over 24 hrs of drum beating. 

I have already pointed out property confiscations and all the wrong things of the last two episodes in my previous post, the one before your quoted one in pg 261. 

 

@dito It was also pearl necklaces given to Sheng girls by QH's mom in the novel. It was in pretty early chapters ~30s since ML was only around 11 at that time. 

 

I hate to say this but I'm so glad I'm no longer alone in being unhappy with drama writers :D

I was so alone when I started pointing out little details of their inconsistencies during third week.  

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5 minutes ago, mooose said:

ML wearing her robes in a 'last ditch' appeal, I don't  think is that big of a deal. She needs to look powerful.

Before the imperial edict ML was a noble lady and had the right to wear that outfit, but after she lost her title she definitely shouldn't wear it. A commoner pretending to be a noble lady was not a small matter, especially as ML was using the status to appeal for her husband. Any official from ED's side could easily use it as an excuse to sue her and add more criminal charges against GTY. By doing this ML didn't help GTY, she's actually bringing more trouble to him. I know it looked impressive but honestly she should just wear normal clothes. 

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1 hour ago, leeza77 said:

Trailer..mn was really cruel 

 

Ming Lan scolded Gu Ting Ye for lying to her. She assumed that he was dead. She told him if he did it again she will give him the divorce papers. She said that Gu Ting Ye always called her a fox but she called Gu Ting Ye that he is the Ancestor of foxes.

 

Gu Ting Ye saved Ming Lan with an arrow. The same style as when she was carrying the imperial edict after escaping from the palace

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2 minutes ago, Jackie1048 said:

Ming Lan scolded Gu Ting Ye for lying to her. She assumed that he was dead. She told him if he did it again she will give him the divorce papers. She said that Gu Ting Ye always called her a fox but she called Gu Ting Ye that he is the Ancestor of foxes.

 

Gu Tong Ye saved Ming Lan with an arrow. The same style as when she was carrying the imperial edict after escaping from the palace

So, a pot calling a kettle.. Ha ha. Really suited each other. Ml should teach him a lesson

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29 minutes ago, matrim said:

Before the imperial edict ML was a noble lady and had the right to wear that outfit, but after she lost her title she definitely shouldn't wear it. A commoner pretending to be a noble lady was not a small matter, especially as ML was using the status to appeal for her husband. Any official from ED's side could easily use it as an excuse to sue her and add more criminal charges against GTY. By doing this ML didn't help GTY, she's actually bringing more trouble to him. I know it looked impressive but honestly she should just wear normal clothes. 

 

Here's my interpretation:

By the time of banging the gong, ML had calmed down and thought things through and calculated her actions. She's very intuitive about people and human response. The robes signify that she, a virtuous wife, was giving it her all for her husband. How then can anyone of those courtiers or scholars want to penalize her for mere robes?

 

Even the emperor, who couldn't sleep, could have had her removed quietly but didn't dare to because it would look bad. He could only ignore her. So being a woman was powerful, but of the empty kind, which is why she threw the headpiece away. Thats why I say the robes at this point were not a big deal.

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1 hour ago, mooose said:

 

Devil's advocate here.

 

The most serious cases would be treason and public corruption, which would lead to confiscation of assets, beheadings, slavery for family etc. In this case GTY is a merritorious official and all his issues are grey family issues, he didn't have his hand in the imperial cookie jar or plot rebellion. As an absolute monarch, a judgement from the emperor would not always be the same from the courts. He can choose, at his dicretion to mitigate a sentence or judgement. So yes, even if the emperor was publicly pissed, he wouldn't be extreme as to want one of his close aides homeless and penniless, on account of past services rendered.

 

ML wearing her robes in a 'last ditch' appeal, I don't  think is that big of a deal. She needs to look powerful.

 

Even as commoners, GTY and ML are still both from grand families (The Shens' were not titled, only scholars, but still considered a grand family). So their lifestyle and close circle of friends won't change that much.

 

The imperial family could summon anyone before them, even common furens or merchants. ML can still be summoned, even without a title.

I went back to look at the dress code of the petitioning ladies..

Madam Wang wore a red robe with an elaborate golden ornamental headgear fit to be a crown..Madam Qin wore a darkish blue robe with modest embroidery and a golden ornamental headgear which was less regal compared to Sr.Ms.Wang.

ML was in a blue robe which had birds embroidered on it generously.Her head gear too was blue with the bird theme...Medival European clans used animals as symbols in family crest.Don't know if that is the case with Gu clan hence the aviary display.

 

The men's offical dresscode followed a pattern of hierarchy/nobility/ranking..women attire was a costume designer's delight...Wish there was a more methodical way to understand the hierarchy difference on woman's attire.

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1 hour ago, mooose said:

Devil's advocate here.

 

The most serious cases would be treason and public corruption, which would lead to confiscation of assets, beheadings, slavery for family etc. In this case GTY is a merritorious official and all his issues are grey family issues, he didn't have his hand in the imperial cookie jar or plot rebellion. As an absolute monarch, a judgement from the emperor would not always be the same from the courts. He can choose, at his dicretion to mitigate a sentence or judgement. So yes, even if the emperor was publicly pissed, he wouldn't be extreme as to want one of his close aides homeless and penniless, on account of past services rendered.

ML wearing her robes in a 'last ditch' appeal, I don't  think is that big of a deal. She needs to look powerful.

Even as commoners, GTY and ML are still both from grand families (The Shens' were not titled, only scholars, but still considered a grand family). So their lifestyle and close circle of friends won't change that much.

The imperial family could summon anyone before them, even common furens or merchants. ML can still be summoned, even without a title.

In the decree, GTY was convicted of being greedy and confisticating civilian's properties (basically one of public corruptions) in addition to murdering official's family member. It is very long and complicated decree with a lot of stuff in addition to his sentence. Since he is convicted of taking civilian's properties, those properties would be taken away and giving back to the owners or taken into imperial treasury if requester is dead (Bai uncle) but that didn't happen either. 

 

Since Chen garden was bestowed by emperor along with captain of imperial palace army title, if his title is taken back, at least Chen garden should be taken away (not including his other personal properties). The person who assume GTY's position would be given Chen garden (noble consort Liu BIL became captain of imperial palace army). Marquis manor should be taken away too unless emperor designate someone from Gu family to accept the title. It doesn't make sense for emperor leaving the hereditary title up in the air without designating anyone nor GTW saying he will petition emperor to give title to GTY's son if GTY is really dead since the son of GTY cannot inherit the title as the father being convicted criminal and title being taken away from him. 

 

The point is ED summoning officials and wives of emperor's party in the name of empress. You will see prime minister Han shouting and protesting as he did not believe it was empress' order. Since GTY was assumed death at this point, we're saying there is no motive for ED to be summoning ML. She didn't summon SH or CB or their wives, did she? If GTY is dead, ML is just sixth daughter of official SH who is widowed even if she is still living at Chen garden.

 

When we are saying noble woman attire or outfit it includes the headpiece. The decree included taking away her noble title since she could no longer wear the attire which includes the headpiece. There are also 8 different levels of noble woman and their level can be distinguished by headpiece and color of the robe.

@minglan1ML's title has shu which indicates third grade. I'm assuming Old Madam Wang is first grade since her husband being imperial tutor and honored in imperial temple. The stepmom level can be lower than ML since her husband did not have any merit. The book never mentioned about stepmom gaining the title. Zhang Shi (general Shen's wife title is first grade in the novel).

 

Edited by Golden Flower
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3 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

In the decree, GTY was convicted of being greedy and confisticating civilian's properties (basically one of public corruptions) in addition to murdering official's family member. It is very long and complicated decree with a lot of stuff in addition to his sentence. Since he is convicted of taking civilian's properties, those properties would be taken away and giving back to the owners or taken into imperial treasury if requester is dead (Bai uncle) but that didn't happen either. 

 

Since Chen garden was bestowed by emperor along with captain of imperial palace army title, if his title is taken back, at least Chen garden should be taken away (not including his other personal properties). The person who assume GTY's position would be given Chen garden (noble consort Liu BIL became captain of imperial palace army). Marquis manor should be taken away too unless emperor designate someone from Gu family to accept the title. It doesn't make sense for emperor leaving the hereditary title up in the air without designating anyone nor GTW saying he will petition emperor to give title to GTY's son if GTY is really dead since the son of GTY cannot inherit the title as the father being convicted criminal and title being taken away from him. 

 

The point is ED summoning officials and wives of emperor's party in the name of empress. You will see prime minister Han shouting and protesting as he did not believe it was empress' order. Since GTY was assumed death at this point, we're saying there is no motive for ED to be summoning ML. She didn't summon SH or CB or their wives, did she? If GTY is dead, ML is just sixth daughter of official SH who is widowed even if she is still living at Chen garden.

 

Summoning ml was a trap to kill her. It's stepmom plan to kill ml no matter what as ml was considered gtu achilles heel. If ml died gty will be destroyed, no longer he can come back. Took the opportunity to destroy the enemy to thr root so that there was no risk of ml&gty to raise again. 

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Ep.64 was really good. Grandma's awake & TY's back. I almost forgot he was in the show for a bit. CB is such a good son. I really like how the characters matured. Well maybe not all of them but I love the progression. Im so happy grandma's okay. ML&TY together again, the dynamic duo is just too good. I love these cuties. 

Those pecking/kisses at the end :wub:

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20 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

When we are saying noble woman attire or outfit it includes the headpiece. The decree included taken away her noble title. There are also 8 different levels of noble woman and their level can be distinguished by headpiece and color of the robe. ML's title has shu which indicates third level. 

 

Is this specific to northen song dynasty?

If ML is third level that is a grade lower I presume than Qin and Madam Wang.So how is her clothes allowed to be more decorative? As I understand the imperial family and high ranking officials were allowed to were silk ..Others would dress in hemp...For commoners it was black or blue simple dressing..Using of colors was barred except by royalty and high ranking officials.

So if we go by that then ML's attire has to be on the austere side....Here it is not so..Her dress in fact stands out more..

4 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

Last night rating 2.061. The best rating for hunan tv since 600 days ago. Congratulations 

Thanks @leeza77 for posting this.My question got answered. TV audiences are enjoying the way the story has progressed.

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4 minutes ago, minglan1 said:

Is this specific to northen song dynasty?

If ML is third level that is a grade lower I presume than Qin and Madam Wang.So how is her clothes allowed to be more decorative..As I understand the imperial family and high ranking officials were allowed to were silk ..Others would dress in hemp...For commoners it was blck or blue simple dressing..Usng of colors was barred.

So if we go by that then ML's attire has to be on the austere side....Here it is not so..Her dress in fact stands out more..

Thanks @leeza77 for posting this.My question got answeres. TV audiences are enjoying the way the story has progressed.

I'm one of them. Just watching and be satisfied with the happy ending. 

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