[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否？知否？应是绿肥红瘦

[minoku2209]

Bromance GTY & SCB  

 

 

[dito]

4 hours ago, Golden Flower said:

GTY actually lost the Marquess title and thus ML also lost her noble title. She still wore her noble woman attire and went to struck the drum. The emperor ignored ML's request to have audience by beating the drum. He didn't give a darn even when QH, Huan Wang, General Shen, Duan and Geng petitioned. He drove QH out of the throne hall. I got that it is because of the plan emperor is not hearing her case to make ED believe. If that is the case and ML not being able to help GTY, what's the point of making GTY kill Aunty Kang, Wang family making a huge ruckus, bringing up old things like MN and Bai uncle (then Bai uncle getting killed), being imprisoned when he already has other serious crimes for being demoted and taken away his Marquess title like leaving his post (to help ML with grandma's poisoning) and defying imperial decree to come into the palace and not returning the military tiger token as soon as he came back. I understand they're trying to make everything more dramatic and want to kill off villains like Aunty Kang, Bai uncle, MN instead of them just being imprisoned and banished to the village. The writers probably also want to make stepmom having more attributed crimes. They could have just caught Aunty Kang trying to stab ML and her crime will be made known that Wang family has nothing to say about since Daniang wasn't involved like in grandma poisoning case. Stepmom accusing GTY of trying to kill his own brother by burning down his house wasn't important and included in GTY's sentencing decree anyways. Stepmom will be involved with letting bandits into the house and this crime will be more serious than housing Aunty Kang. However, all the ruckus of suing GTY is unnecessary and made the drama longer by nearly three episodes. By having those arguments and ruckus, I just want to laugh at flimsiness of the writing instead of feeling sympathy towards OTP 

 

Exactly. They had everything all ready to make the final track dramatic and exciting. GTY being demoted was also very easily possible without the ruckus, as the emperor, who had been playing stupid to lure in ED, could have made a big deal out of GTY leaving his post and defying the emperor's summons. It would have been completely logical as Emperor's favor is a very fickle thing. One misstep and you're out.

Catching Kang Aunt in the act would have been so much better. She probably would not have even denied it with how crazy she was.

Stepmom was about to step up her game with letting in the rebels and all...I see no need for her to create all that circus at the court.

All this nonsense of Bai family and Manniang.....I just want to erase those episodes.....most likely I won't ever watch them....or if I did watch...it'd be on mute and with lots of fast forwarding. 

Even the whole ML begging the empress looked so unreal to me....I couldn't take it seriously at all. It looked like they were playing to the audience.

All of a sudden, I'm really appreciating the author of the book. She has a tendency to make me doze off sometimes but I'm going to be reading the book again with new eyes.

[dancingbee]

 

Ming Lan, dressed in her full title attire as the wife of Marquis Gu, went to strike the drum requesting the audience with the emperor.

I like her hair piece and clothes. They made her look powerful. Too bad, her effort went in vain...
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hell59]

4 hours ago, leeza77 said:

Happy ending.. Now can sleep happily 

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Thank you! At least this C-drama has a happy ending. I just didn't want to watch the latest episodes. What a mess!

[pixiemouse]

So I was thinking about why GTY wants ML to lose her temper or show negative emotions to him and, while we see the benefit of her showing her less than perfect side, I can see a good reason for him to want to see it.  Both his Stepmonster and his evil ex showed him sweet faces for years.  His Momo, who has always been there for him tells him like it is.  ML also freely argued with him and gave him a talking to when he deserved it before they got married. As they have gotten closer, and ML is so supportive & sweet, I wonder whether part of him has been waiting for the shoe to drop. And what a relief when it does!

[Suzzy San]

25 minutes ago, pixiemouse said:

So I was thinking about why GTY wants ML to lose her temper or show negative emotions to him and, while we see the benefit of her showing her less than perfect side, I can see a good reason for him to want to see it.  Both his Stepmonster and his evil ex showed him sweet faces for years.  His Momo, who has always been there for him tells him like it is.  ML also freely argued with him and gave him a talking to when he deserved it before they got married. As they have gotten closer, and ML is so supportive & sweet, I wonder whether part of him has been waiting for the shoe to drop. And what a relief when it does!

True, it was such a relief for him when she eventually became the ML he saw before marriage who reprimanded his ego... 

[_heywatch]

15 hours ago, minglan1 said:

We are splitting hairs trying to crack the plot .Gran and granddaughter are a lovely duo.I love their banter about love sickness when they miss each other.

Kitchen politics has moved to palace politicking.We should have a poll on  eve of ending- Who plots better the women or men?

 

A little a bit of both, although the women are well written/multifaceted much moreso than the men in TSoML. The writing for the men has been either alright or somewhat underwhelming, but I do very much love TY as a character.  The great thing about TSoML is that it puts women at the forefront in storytelling/narrative & continues to keep the show engaging. Even the most prickly characters are quite enjoyable to watch.

[savingrace]

12 hours ago, m0us3y said:

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I wouldn't disagree. 

Show did well for flash out her character and what drives her character. 

(Actually, show did well with most characters, incl the antagonists).

Gives us enough meat to understand her behaviour, her convictions, and her beliefs. 

 

I cried with her when her mom passed.

Suffocated for her as she hides her true nature for self preservation

Loved her heartfelt and mature conversations with granny.

Felt for her when she confessed to GTY that she has to choose survival over principles, living as the gentle, agreeable, flawless sixth miss. 

Loved it even more, the honest, sincere conversations with GTY, both before the romance, and after their marriage. 

Laughed at her non-existent archery skills and seeing her battle the fatty bandit, and then tried to pick up his sword (unsuccessfully) to protect herself.

My blood boils with her as we found out CL did exactly opposite of what the doc said to kill ML's mom. 

Smiled like an idiot when she finally accepted GTY's proposal, and everytime they show affection to each other. 

Laughed more when she was throwing her mini tantrum after the aunts tried to blackmail her with Dr.He, and that death glare she gave GTY when he tried to pacify her. 

My heart broke with hers to see granny in coma from poisoning

I'm amazed at how calm and collected she is when she carried out her revenge, both against CL and Mdm Kang. 

I cheered for her everytime she outwit and outsmart those who looked down on her, those who underestimated her. 

Felt her sadness as she cried in GTY's arm, blaming herself for granny's predicament, getting poisoned. 

Felt her trauma with finding out that her GTY died (false alarm), goes into premature labour, manor being set on fire, and the attempt on her life all at the same time. 

And now...anticipating more heartbreak, more pain, more suffering before she comes out sharper, stronger, better, cooler , and more bad richard simmons.

 

I buy her convictions to fight for her own justice because she lives in an era what wouldn't give her one. 

I'm sold on her principles of repayment. She will repay with her life for all that she owed, and she ensures they pay with theirs for all they owed..

 

Even with the writing flaws and dramatization, the story stayed true to its title "The Story of Ming Lan"...

And personally, it's been a rewarding journey. 

 

 

Thank you! You've perfectly described my feelings in watching this show. I adore Minglan. IMO, she's the best woman character I've ever watched in any show (and Zhao Liying portrayed her brilliantly). While I'm glad that it's a happy ending, I'm sad that I won't be able to see more of her after Wednesday, except to re-watch it. It's been one heck of a roller coaster ride. Ups and downs. And I enjoyed every moment of it.

Also, I agree that other characters are all well fleshed out and I appreciate that the show gave some background about them, which explained why they turned out to be that way. And I love GTY and ML's love story. I love watching it grow from practical/survival union to one true love.

[sava2sava]

http://p.weibo.com/show/channerWbH5/1034:4338629762571540

 

Wait hold the phone is this the dowager man trying to kill ML ? 

[sava2sava]

7 hours ago, dito said:

Now if they had incorporated this storyline after the Gu house is divided and the family living separately....then I could understand stepmom's actions. Then GTY and the other Gu's would be separate families and will not be that affected by each other's actions.

 

Using the salt mines mismanagement would have been so much simpler and sensible .....if they did want to go over dramatic for the finale week.

And I was horrified at GTY showing his glee and happiness on hearing of ML's desperate begging in front of the empress.

Writers, do you even understand your drama's characters? 

 

This story didn't need to be this dramatic at this juncture, the finale was going to have more than enough drama. We had just finished a very emotional story track of the poisoning. Then the child birth surrounded by fire and the knife attack. At this time, the story needed to take a deep breathe and calm the f**k down to start the final rebellion track which had plenty of excitement. And if they wanted more excitement just make that part super dramatic. No need to add unnecessary stuff that don't even make sense. 

 

Theres a saying....Don't fix it, if its not broken. Screen writers need to understand that.

@dito  Well Said.  I thought using the posioning act was a good way tying up the end, It would have made for a nice ending even using the salt mines for a means to a good ending would be suffice.. But stretching the story to add more moola sometimes you have to wonder is it really worth it..

 

7 hours ago, nichiwoohee said:

LOL at the soldiers all looking down due to embarrassment 

 

it’s near the last episode, I’ll just stay away from this thread until the last ep finish getting subbed  

@nichiwoohee  Good Luck With That 

[sava2sava]

6 hours ago, shihuangdi said:

So who was the assassin who want to kill GTY's son? Her fighting skill is on par with Shitou, was she send by the palace, since she was kneeling outside the gate when ML beating the drum?

 

Also, Molan was laughing at ML only to find out her own marriage is falling apart. 

@shihuangdi  No more of ML schemes, Do we get to see and bad ending for her also besides her husband sleeping with her top assistant..

 

What is step mom doing with her son..? 

[Golden Flower]

14 hours ago, lclarakl said:

 

@Golden Flower, I had high hopes that the king was smart enough to see through the plot of those around him and that he and GTY were on the same page. In ep 67 or 68, GTY told Shitou that the ground had frozen and things were about to get bad. He asked Shitou if he was ready. Shitou told him that frozen ground was a good time for killing.  So it appears that GTY has planned and determined an outcome--especially being an army strategist. 

Now I wonder if things are still going according to his plans?  Is the king in he loop, or did he keep the king in the dark--the same way he did when he took the jade seal so the Dowager Empress couldn't get it? I'm hoping that those who lied will pay for their crimes.

I do understand there is a plan between the emperor and GTY though I'm no longer sure of Huan Wang being told or not as the emperor did not allow him to participate in the border war saying he needs to pacify empress who has been frightened due to sudden border war though he requested to go. However, my point was the writers do not need to create all these scheming and arguing at the throne room to imprison GTY and make ML involved in GTY's downfall especially since there was no outcome or improved result except she ended up crying so much during the first month after delivering baby through life and death situations, throwing up blood, and getting really sick for kneeling in front of the palace for over 24 hrs.  I do understand they want to dramatize more, this is "the story of ML", want to involve ML in everything and want to show her efforts in saving GTY without even caring Sheng's family members' life and reputation.  However, I felt that the whole situation became over the top drama instead of milking sympathy from viewers towards OTP in making ML tortured unnecessarily to become sort of Mary Sue. The emperor withstanding her hitting the drum non-stop over 24hrs without getting sleep is being unrealistic in normal situation where there is no plan. We know there is plan but the rest of the court did not know there was.

 

@zenya22 In the book, GTY was demoted without being taken away his Marquess title for leaving his army outside the city and coming back to the city without permission.  ED already knew GTY leaving his post for salt inspection and defying emperor's decree. If they show similar to the book by just taking away GTY's general title, it would have saved at least 3 episodes or more of ruckus, prevented ML from being tortured, one less assassination attempt on the newborn baby, and no need to bring back MN, Bai uncle or Yu Yanran or family members from Youyan. The step-mom would have been already at odds with the OTP for GTY burning GTW's courtyards. He would then be recruited by General Shen just to be a platoon or group leader without a title and much authority.

 

@hello210 I do understand property seizure can be up to the emperor. However, the emperor convicted him of murdering official's wife/ daughter/ sister/ mother, and being greedy official seizing civilian's properties (Bai family's). He then took away all his titles including ML's, imprisoned him and supposed to exile him 2000 miles away when autumn is over. However, he didn't assign any other Gu family member for Marquess title, didn't confisticate both of his houses (which are still divided by the wall with just having a gate) bestowed by emperors, and properties he supposedly seized from civilians, unheard of for convicted official of this crime. If the emperor aren't going to take away his Bai's inheritance, why would he even convict him of that crime?

The stepmom who always wanted the Marquess title for her son did not petition to transfer the title to the son as soon as GTY was convicted but trying to kill newborn son who cannot even inherit the title since he is son of a criminal? The stepmom invited ML to discuss about the Marquess title but Ronger, SH, CB, grandma and ML all kicked Xiang mama out and ML ordered not to allow anyone other than her aidies in and out of Chen garden. Is she still trying to maintain her good reputation and Bodisava's face so that people don't accuse her of stealing GTY's title? The stepmom and GTY being enemies, already known by everyone in the city, will the emperor just put it aside without assigning anyone for the title in normal situation (without having the grand plan)? 

 

10 hours ago, dito said:

It does look like the emperor's side took advantage of all the bad guys ganging up on GTY and used the situation to bring down the ED.

So it may not have been planned from the start but when they got served with a good opportunity to take down ED,  the Emperor, GTY and Huan wang grabbed it with both hands.

I'm also hoping the situation to be like what you mentioned and that GTY did not kill Aunty Kang and burn down GTW's courtyard just to create all these ruckus to round up ED's people. If he did, I will be really disappointed in this drama version of GTY for unnecessarily torturing ML. In medical perspective, what ML went through though she didn't die (including being frightened to death for almost getting stabbed right after delivery, crying frequently during the first month of delivery, kneeling on pavement and shouting for over 24 hours without rest in freezing weather) will cause her to get frequent headache, arthritis, and hormonal abnormalities which can lead to getting frequently ill and even having difficulty in getting pregnant again or having miscarriages in the future in that era when medical treatments are limited. 

Btw, 4th and 5th uncle families have been separated from Gu manor when 4th's son was exiled and oldest brother passed away. During ML's house warming party, QH's wife told Xiaotao there is no longer 5th aunt in that side when she used 5th aunt calling ML as an excuse for her to avoid QH's wife.

[dancingbee]

 

 

A heartfelt conversation in prison between the husband and wife...

 

 

 

[Jackie1048]

Molan got what she deserves. Her maid wanted to leave her service and marry but selfish Molan gave a flimsy excuse and delayed it so the maid took Molan's husband instead.

 

In the end, she had no one at her side.

 

Gu Ting Ye got his wish. His passionate wife will kiss him in public.

[Sirry Usly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQGIX0aD-gg&t=1904s

 

So in this uncut version the Emperor faints...I have some guesses as to why but I was wondering if anyone knows exactly why he faints. 

[minglan1]

6 hours ago, greenwatch08 said:

A little a bit of both, although the women are well written/multifaceted much moreso than the men in TSoML. The writing for the men has been either alright or somewhat underwhelming, but I do very much love TY as a character.  The great thing about TSoML is that it puts women at the forefront in storytelling/narrative & continues to keep the show engaging. Even the most prickly characters are quite enjoyable to watch.

Oh yes! The women in this drama shine on their own merit good or evil doesn't  matter.They do it in a patriarchal society with elan.A force to reckon with for the men folk.

 

The best part for me is how it moves towards the ending.It might be an unpopular view but I kinda like it.It reaffirms how a novel if written in that era would have ended.It would give the last word to men.Even if they remain in the background for household/inner palace matters,when it comes to important matters of nation,governance they triumph...All the evil yet smart women banded together but they still walked in the trap laid out for them without figuring it out.

In the end ML solves the issues at home as GTY battles outside...The roles demarcated with clarity...

Similar to what happened in the confiscated farmstead..When ML was in a tight spot he came and solved it with great insight....just like his wife did earlier.

[minglan1]

1 hour ago, dancingbee said:

 

 

A heartfelt conversation in prison between the husband and wife...

 

 

 

What a beautiful shot.

[minglan1]

3 hours ago, sava2sava said:

http://p.weibo.com/show/channerWbH5/1034:4338629762571540

 

Wait hold the phone is this the dowager man trying to kill ML ? 

Is he the BIL of the imperial cocubine?

[danatepe]

I still remember that day when GTY was drove out of his home and all of theses people think that they win against him.looking so lonely that i hoped to see the eps fast to see how he`ll get his revenge.
Now.He has some real friends by his side ,that want to speak out for him and to remove these false accusation of him.i like how CB wanted to speak in the court but GTY shut him up to move on with his plan and hitting him.And also it was the reason of how he wanted to protect ML and her Sheng family by not telling the truth out there.It was a lovely conversation between each of them, and Here`s ML Tries her all what she got to help Her GTY.that scene in ep 71.even i don`t get what they were talking about.Was moved by it.That Finally GTY .You had some real persons by your side and even your lovely ML out there for you.

Ep69 made me sure that GTY and the Emperor had some plans going on with them.and here i think that the Emperor was so stupid just setting there.what a great move to deceive the ED.

 

 

11 hours ago, leeza77 said:

Happy ending.. Now can sleep happily 

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ML finally let it go and go all the way for GTY.doesn`t care for the surrounding.making GTY happy and also me

[Golden Flower]

16 hours ago, sava2sava said:

@GoldenFlower  Also we must not forget that ML marriage was the big event of the year something Molan always seen herself having.. She thought that marrying the Liang Count would give her all the extravagance that she thought she deserved only to be fooled by her and CL on foolishness.. Molan thought she being the Eldest that her beauty was above her younger sisters and she should be next in line to marry.. Being that Minglan was younger then her and had her MIL eyeing Minglan for her son and finding out QH never gave her the time of day not even in a thought was just to unacceptable for her.. Molan thought if she didn't act then she'll become and old spinster or a concubine like her mom..

 

Now did GTy actually get convicted of killing Aunt Kang.? Did the accusation hold up of him killing her in the court yard.? So all those people that was in Minglang room when Aunt Kang was there with a knife stabbing people are liars.. This has to be some sort of plan because none of it makes sense.. Here it is she was lock up behind Minglan only to go to her home and assits with a delivery.. I know the King can't be this densed.. Do they even mention the incident of her trying to kill Granny.. The more I type this the more I've come to the conclusion this has to be a setup for the ED..

Please explain the titles these houses carries..

Duke: IDK

Marquis: Pillar to the Royal Family.

Count: QH dad being married to the princess

 

@matrim  So the ED tried to barrow one from the previous Emperor concubine books.. The ED may be smart but pulling a move like this wouldn't fly with Minglan.. Her husband is already in the palace prison who she has seen already and probably that day.. Minglan read between the lines why would a Eunich come to her at house night wanting her to go to the palace can't be good.. So the Ed was going to use her to have GTY probably kill himself to save her or they both would be killed.. Most likely both would be killed.. The Ed wouldn't leave Minglan alive to tell the story of what she done.  Well the funny part to this is the ED never factored in the part if the person you need don't come.. Now she got her Eunichs put in a bind and no way to explain herself out of this.. 

This could be the reasons why she sent her soliders there..

I have quoted you on page 257 in the post explaining Molan's thoughts and attitude towards ML from childhood to current and I included those facts.

In today's episodes, Molan shouted at her husband asking him whether he still wanted to marry ML whose life was over having insulted to emperor after he confronted her of Lin Yi Niang and her setting him up to have affair and her involvement in killing his concubine Chaunke's child by making fetus big by giving food with so much nourishment in order to have difficult delivery.  This indicates that Molan has inferiority-complex towards ML and hates her because ML being chosen as DIL by her MIL and Madam Wu didn't even want her when her relationship with Liang Hong has already been known. 

 

I already posted answer in my previous post. 

 

Duke (Guo Gong)> Marquis (Hou) > Count (Bo jue) similar to Earl (in Europe) are all nobility titles given to ministers who were involved in establishing the dynasty or who have done many merits for the country or to the descendants of previous emperors' sons (only the eldest di son can inherit the hereditary wangye title and fife from their father, younger son are given nobility titles) or male family members of Empresses. The titles are given according to the level of merits you contributed to the country. Each person with nobility title was fed (from tax) by a fixed number of households.

In Song dynasty, these three nobility titles are subdivided but I'm not sure having additional bestowed name is higher than not having one. GTY's full Marquis title is Ningyue Juan Hou instead of Ningyue Hou (from freaking long decree today which mentioned all his titles including his positions from salt inspection tours, taxable household, his merits, his wrongdoings mentioned with difficult idioms). Juan is usually used to indicate lesser title. eg. Juan Zhu princess is lower than Gong Zhu princess though in English there is only one word. QH's father is a duke (highest title) not because he is married to QH's mom who is Juan Zhu. It is his family hereditary title for ancestors being contributed to the country. However, Qi family doesn't have additional bestowed name. Ying Guo Gong has additional bestowed name "ying" since his last name is Zhang.

Gong Zhu> Juan Zhu> Xian Zhu (County Level princess)

QH's mom is Juan Zhu not by birth (not relative to imperial family Zhao). Her father is a Marquis who sacrificed his legs for the previous emperor and thus she was given 2nd grade level princess title with bestowed name "Pin Ning" (only mentioned in the book). QH's first wife is County level princess (third grade level) though being a daughter of a prince (may be cuz she is not really emperor's granddaughter).The daughters of princes and nobilities won't be given Gong Zhu (highest level) which are only reserved for emperor's daughters. In Song dynasty, emperor's daughter princess have just bestowed names as their titles but in Qing dynasty (last dynasty of China), there are two levels of princess among emperor's daughter Gong Zhu (Gulun being daughters of empress and princess favored by the emperor and Heshuo being born from consorts and concubines). 

There are similarity and differences among dynasties and you can read further here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_nobility

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_and_noble_ranks_of_the_Qing_dynasty

http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Terms/wujue.html

 

When ED sent eunuch to pick up ML, GTY already left for the war and was already missing and assumed dead as the whole group who went with him were swallowed by sandpit. Emperor fainted when he heard the news of the whole army being lost. Zhang shi came to ML's house and told her GTY was missing and even her father YGG cannot be contacted anymore. So, ED asked ML to go into palace not to kill GTY or both but I don't understand the motive at this point as her husband is just a foot solider and assumed dead right now. ML did not go with eunuchs but arrested them as she realized that they are not from empress palace though they said they were. She also asked his servants to notify other ministers and officials families of someone faking emperor and empress decree to bring their family into the palace to protect them from rebellion. 

@martin @dito The writers kept the part about ML being part of family members of ministers who are against ED who were taken by ED people. However, currently, in drama, GTY is just a foot soldier, missing, assumed death and she is not even a noble lady. Also, why do they have ED soldiers as well as masked assassins from stepmom's side coming and attacking Chen garden? Also, I don't understand why there were no one guarding the entrance of Chen garden from stepmom's side though ML told them to guard well so that no one outside of her families and aides can go in and out when Xiang mama came to invite her. If I remember it correctly, there were only assassins in the book though rebellion was going on in the city streets, right?? 

 

Spoiler

At this point, I really think that the writers really do not remember what was mentioned even just over 5 episodes ago. If I remember correctly, first daughter given birth by Chaunke survived the delivery though being big (it was mentioned by Daniang and RL during ML's first visit to Sheng family after getting married) but her second pregnancy ended up as miscarriage (mentioned later at girls' gathering at grandma before having family lunch). During her visit after grandma's poison accident, Molan mentioned to CB's wife that all her husband concubines pregnancy did not end up surviving and the one child survived two years ago did not live for long. But in today's episode, LH mentioned that the child being dead from having difficulty delivering.