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[Current Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦

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17 hours ago, zenya22 said:

@Golden FlowerAll his property and the Gu manor will be taken back by the emperor as imperial property? Then Madam Qin will have no place to stay then? Will she be driven out of the Gu Manor in that case? Could she not have foreseen that? It would be so nice to see Madam Qin thrown out if that were to happen?

I'm saying the properties should be taken away but apparently not as ML held one month birthday celebration of her son at Chen garden and she was there when rebels (ED's soldiers) came. The Gu family ancestral hall also looks the same. @sava2sava I'm not talking about personal property owned by GTY being inherited from his maternal grandfather. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense that both stepmom and ML can stay in Marquess manor and Chen garden if GTY is no longer General and Marquess and no one else from Gu family holds the title. Both houses are given by previous emperor for being Marquess and current one to GTY for being General. Especially Chen garden is given to GTY for being fu tou zhi wei shi (person in charge of capital army that protects the imperial family) and it should be taken away after being convicted criminal. An official being demoted vs convicted felon are totally different situations. 

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2 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

I'm saying the properties should be taken away but apparently not as ML held one month birthday celebration of her son at Chen garden and she was there when rebels (ED's soldiers) came. The Gu family ancestral hall also looks the same. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense that both stepmom and ML can stay in Marquess manor and Chen garden if GTY is no longer Marquess and no one else from Gu family holds the title. Both houses are given by previous emperor and current one for being Marquess family and General. Especially Chen garden is given to GTY for being a Hutuo Tu (person in charge of capital army that protects the imperial family) and it should be taken away after being convicted criminal. An official being demoted vs convicted felon are totally different situations. 

I don't think that gty id convicted. Ml did present her petition on behalf of gty (next episode) and i guess because of that gty is only demoted (mind you these all just a smoke screen to trap ED) 

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2 hours ago, minglan1 said:

I am still on the fence about grandma being moral compass.The way she was kept in the dark about ML's scheming and the girl's steadfast refusal to divulge.I think it's her own belief system that she uses as her compass.If she feels an advise is reasonable she might adhere/in corporate but it's not gauranteed. 

She went with granny's advise on Aunt Kang because the old lady was the victim.Old Madam Sheng's views take precedence in her own matter.

Personally I do feel that grandma has been guiding her to a certain extent. 

We all have our own belief system in a way, but to discount influences of others would be arrogant. 

It's easy for us to say that the antagonists are just evil, but in reality, how many are truly born evil just because? 

 

Daniang is simple minded, and not the smartest cookie of the lot, but even ML said she can see how HL, RL and CB turned out the way they did. Because she does nurture them well. She may have temper, but she's not vicious. She's rather kind in nature, which was why granny chose her as SH's wife. That even if you give her a knife, it would never occur to her to use that knife in her hands to kill another. And that's why none of her kids are vicious or have ill intentions. 

 

There are a lot of times we were shown grandma and ML discussing over things and her thoughts and reasoning on them. 

ML may have hide some facts and truths from granny like we do from our parents, but it would be unfair to say our parents have no hands in shaping us to be the way we are, the same way granny shaped ML to be who she is. 

 

Whilst we do have our own belief system which were innate as part of us, there are also influences, circumstances and people that shape a person to who they are..

Just my 2 cents. 

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15 hours ago, mooose said:

 

I also thought the writing was a bit weak on this. With Aunty Kang she wanted the influence and wealth of the Shengs at her disposal and she had the love and backing of her maiden family.

 

MoL is supposed to be smart but why go through all that just for petty jealousy? She is already an outsider with the Shengs. If Kang had succeeded,  then GTY would have wanted her life and who would defend her? With the stakes so high, the writers' should have built up MoL's motive to be more convincing. 

Although I agree that there are a lot of weakness in the writing for the whole drama especially in recent episodes including ruckus caused by Wang family, stepmom & Gu family, Bai family and MN in imperial throne room and reason GTY being imprisoned and exiled, I think Molan's motive to destroy ML is understandable and not weak. Molan is not only jealous but hates ML to guts by this point. She might also think that she won't be caught for releasing Aunty Kang as it was stepmom who took Kang in and Kang would never admit getting help from Molan, a shu daughter whom she despised of. I have summarized Molan's attitudes towards ML from the beginning to this point in my previous post two pages back. Molan is like Aunty Kang who thinks that her needs should be given priority over anyone and her position including in their father's heart should be higher than any of her sister. She didn't think that she would be treated as outsider by SH until recently. She would be really furious when she was scolded by SH for trying to involve in Sheng's family affair no matter how much she beg him to tell her when she knew ML and her guards were involved in solving this situation. She was already pissed at ML for not allowing her mother spiritual tablet to be erected in the temple as well as when empress said the girl GTY is going to marry is very lucky and blessed (it was shown Molan squashing Longan fruit with her fingers at the Polo match where GTY proposed to ML and requested empress's hairpin as bestowment for his new bride). 

 

@leeza77 I'm pretty sure GTY was convicted, imprisoned and going to be exiled after imprisoned for certain period. He wasn't just being demoted. If he is just demoted, he won't be imprisoned, exiled and his hereditary Marquess title won't be taken away, just his general title will be taken away. I'm not talking about grandplan if it exists but in the eyes of public, they took away his Marquess title (Molan mentioned about it and belittled ML and ML didn't deny it). In the preview, empress actually told ML why GTY can't be imprisoned and exiled when he committed crime right after ML struck the drum (she was wearing noble lady attire). ML also told her family that they still have time to figure things out before he is actually exiled after autumn. General Shen also requested emperor to let him take convicted felon Gu along with his army as he is good with military strategies being excellent in both fields. He would make sure to bring him back, let him go back to prison after coming back and then exiled him in the autum. Emperor first denied general shen's request but later approved since Wang family requested to let GTY go to war (stepmom told her maid Xiang mama that ED asked Wang family to do that request since it is easier to kill GTY away from palace than being imprisoned in palace near emperor and his other powerful friends). 

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59 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

Personally I do feel that grandma has been guiding her to a certain extent. 

We all have our own belief system in a way, but to discount influences of others would arrogant. 

It's easy for us to say that the antagonists are just evil, but in reality, how many are truly born evil just because? 

 

Daniang is simple minded, and not the smartest cookie of the lot, but even ML said she can see how HL, RL and CB turned out the way they did. Because she does nurture them well. She may have temper, but she's not vicious. She's rather kind in nature, which was why granny chose her as SH's wife. That even if you give her a knife, it would never occur to her to use that knife in her hands to kill another. And that's why none of her kids are vicious or have ill intentions. 

 

There are a lot of times we were shown grandma and ML discussing over things and her thoughts and reasoning on them. 

ML may have hide some facts and truths from granny like we do from our parents, but it would be unfair to say our parents have no hands in shaping us to be the way we are, the same way granny shaped ML to be who she is. 

 

Whilst we do have our own belief system which were innate as part of us, there are also influences, circumstances and people that shape a person to who they are..

Just my 2 cents. 

I will try to rephrase what I wanted to convey.Humans are complex.Enviornment,parental/ other people influence,things read, observed... plays a part in shaping a person.Each thing is like a piece of a  jigsaw puzzle...Untill all the pieces are tied the complete picture won't emerge.

Which piece is more important is difficult to say.The input pieces for each person might be similar but the output (final picture which emerges)is always different.

For ex.RL,HL are siblings being exposed to same enviornment,parents etc., yet their belief system is different..Therefore how they respond to similar situation is also different.

CB ,QH both place lot of significance on  righteousness as a characteristic trait but the way it manifests in each is different.Though the exposure on conventions,expectations,study of it would be similar.

Similarly ML loves,respects as well as discusses things with grandma...But when it comes to acting in a situation she will not always adhere to grandma's thought process even if she is aware of them..Grandma doesn't believe in a tooth for a tooth approach therefore she was out of the loop for CL's issue...The poisoning case was different..She was the victim hence her wishes would take precedence..ML would acqueisce and she did. That's what my understanding has been from the character potrayals in the series...

I didn't consider Daniang as evil.She has a petty,selfish attitude... SH too has that..But none of the children had that parental influence even when exposed to it.

To sum it up it is not about disregarding parental influence but it might not be an overriding factor to make a decision on many occasions.

 

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1 hour ago, Golden Flower said:

Although I agree that there are a lot of weakness in the writing for the whole drama especially in recent episodes including ruckus caused by Wang family, stepmom & Gu family, Bai family and MN in imperial throne room and reason GTY being imprisoned and exiled, I think Molan's motive to destroy ML is understandable and not weak. Molan is not only jealous but hates ML to guts by this point. She might also think that she won't be caught for releasing Aunty Kang as it was stepmom who took Kang in and Kang would never admit getting help from Molan, a shu daughter whom she despised of. I have summarized Molan's attitudes towards ML from the beginning to this point in my pervious post two pages ago. Molan is like Aunty Kang who thinks that her needs should be given priority over anyone and her position including in their father's heart should be higher than any of her sister. She didn't think that she would be treated as outsider by SH until recently. She would be really furious when she was scolded by SH for trying to involve in Sheng's family affair no matter how much she beg him to tell her when she knew ML and her guards were involved in solving this situation. She was already pissed at ML for not allowing her mother spiritual tablet to be erected in the temple as well as when empress said the girl GTY is going to marry is very lucky and blessed (it was shown Molan squashing Longan fruit with her fingers at the Polo match where GTY proposed to ML and requested empress's hairpin as bestowment for his new bride). 

 

@leeza77 I'm pretty sure GTY was convicted, imprisoned and going to be exiled after imprisoned for certain period. He wasn't just being demoted. If he is just demoted, he won't be imprisoned, exiled and his hereditary Marquess title won't be taken away, just his general title will be taken away. I'm not talking about grandplan if it exists but in the eyes of public, they took away his Marquess title (Molan mentioned about it and belittled ML and ML didn't deny it). In the preview, empress actually told ML why GTY can't be imprisoned and exiled when he committed crime right after ML struck the drum (she was wearing noble lady attire). ML also told her family that they still have time to figure things out before he is actually exiled in autumn. General Shen also requested emperor to let him take convicted felon Gu along with his army as he is good with military strategies being excellent in both fields. He would make sure to bring him back, let him go back to prison after coming back and then exiled him in the autum. Emperor first denied general shen's request but later approved since Wang family requested to let GTY go to war (stepmom told her maid Xiang mama that ED asked Wang family to do that request since it is easier to kill GTY away from palace than being imprisoned in palace near emperor and his other powerful friends). 

In one of the recent previews, eunuch Li confronted ML "How dare you defy imperior edcit and not come into the palace. Is Gu Clan revolting against the emperor?" ML just ordered Shitou to detain eunuch Li. This is in line with the novel plot when ED launched rebellion and tried to lure noblewomen from families of emperor's side into the palace and used them as hostages. If ML wasn't Marquis Gu's wife, it doesn't make sense for eunuch Li to deliver such an order. This is one proof that GTY just got demoted but didn't lose his title.

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17 hours ago, Suzzy San said:

That's what I love most about the character GTY, the ability to still be in control of his bad happenings is amazing, even if he planned or it is not planned, he still make sure not to fell down by his obstacles but would rather make best for it

 

Yeah, he’s also the type of person who wont give you the satisfaction of watching him suffering. Kick out of the house? Lol caned by the ed? Lol detained and possible exile?  Lol.. amazing

 

17 hours ago, leeza77 said:

In normal circumstances, yes i agreed. But gty, despite of having a cheerful disposition, i think he's an unsecure guy. Being unloved by the father and fake love by the stepmom. When he saw the kind of love and devotion share between ml and grandma, he wanted the same thing. And he got it tonight from ml. I can't blame him for being happy for that despite the crappy circumstances. He didn't plan that. Just took pleasure out of it. 

 

I think he wants a verbal and action proof, with mn she constantly praised him and also depended on him, while ml havent even say anything romantic wise to needing him and always seems not to care whether he wants to add concubines or not. That for him isnt love, while ml thinks that is enough.  

 

17 hours ago, lclarakl said:

There is one thing that caught me off guard in this drama--the amount of well placed humor.  It's not over the top, slapstick comedy (which I hate), it's a natural flow and it helps tone down the angst so it doesn't bring down the drama.  The actors are also natural in their interaction which makes the humor works.

 

Some of my favorite comic scenes (there are many, many, more):

 

1) GTY - when his stepmother and aunt wanted to bring him the news that ML had been "engaged" to HE and all the drama surrounding his female cousin.  GTY informed them that ML and HE wasn't engaged, and he was the one behind the plot to break them up so he could get ML for himself. 

 

2) ML - When she had to escape from the palace as a page and deliver the decree from the king. She was running from "Second Uncle" (GTY) and finally noticed it was him, and the crying conversation that ensued with him laughing at her pointing out that the Officer she was looking for was with him--I love that scene.

 

3) ML's Father - although the scene was very serious when the family met to discuss grandmother's poisoning, the looks he would direct at ML and the look she would give him back was pure, connective, acting genius. 

 

4) GTY's Brother's Wife - when ML was having her baby and the fire burned down GTY brother's house.  Evil mother in law didn't know how the fire got started (after they tried to burn down GTY's house with a lantern).

 

DIL's :  "Mother-in-Law, you really don't know how our fire started?"

MIL's Assistant:  "I heard from second house's report that the wind was strong and it started from a flicker that flew over from the yard next door."

MIL:  "Next door?"

DIL: "I bet that flicker is very tall and named Shitou."

 

I laughed so hard at this conversation, while also thinking--you don't mess with GTY and his family.

 

There are many, many, many hilarious scenes. This drama could be heavy melodramatic or it could have been comedy. However, the writer struck the right balance.

 

 

I’ve always loved the comic relief the drama provides, it’s a relief from the life problem they have. My favs would be minglan vs the fat bandit, shitou and xiaotao, cb and gty’s bromance, and everytime ml glare at gty laughing all the problem away 

 

6 hours ago, minglan1 said:

Saw raw epi 74..the court scene turned into a market brawl with the emperor dropping by in his gardener attire to get things in order...I couldn't help but laugh on how wittily they conveyed lack of seriousness in the matter from the ruling imperial family's end.

ED is skillfully being lured into the trap with GTY as bait.

Has GTY returned the official military seal or is it still with him? If not,then emperor is in cahoots with him.

 

MN had stabbed GTY then she went round town blaming him of taking way her children,killing her son and throwing her out after using her...

The matter was discussed among officials and they were pacified when GTY showed his stab wounds.So how did MN come again to repeat the discredited sob story?

Did the script writer forget the dialogues  that were delivered few episodes back?

Or MN was purposefully let out for Gu,Wang,Bai villains to utilize her..She is the weakest link in the chain...

 

Mn will probably tell lies on gty, how he deserted her and chang’er, may not be believable, but at least they could add it to his moral corruption and underserving to be an official of the court

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48 minutes ago, nichiwoohee said:

I’ve always loved the comic relief the drama provides, it’s a relief from the life problem they have. My favs would be minglan vs the fat bandit, shitou and xiaotao, cb and gty’s bromance, and everytime ml glare at gty laughing all the problem away 

 

 

ML vs the fat bandit was hilarious! 

 

I also love some of the anticlimatic moments eg that wierd/fake scream when SH discovered ML and 6th Liang. Also that headbutt Danniang gave Changbai when he sentenced her, I just burst out laughing! :lol:

 

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4 hours ago, lclarakl said:

I have to admit that ML is my favorite female lead in a drama. I don't think of her as dangerous in the sense of someone who is unreasonable, but more as a person who lives by the code: "An eye for an eye" or "A life for a life".  As a child, if she saw unfair behavior, she immediately called attention to it and so did her other sister.  However, her grandmother taught her to be a proper lady, but ML's strong desire for revenge against those who killed her mother made her learn patience's and how to keep a secret---even from her grandmother. She pretended to not be that smart so others would let their guard down around her.

 

I wouldn't disagree. 

Show did well for flash out her character and what drives her character. 

(Actually, show did well with most characters, incl the antagonists).

Gives us enough meat to understand her behaviour, her convictions, and her beliefs. 

 

I cried with her when her mom passed.

Suffocated for her as she hides her true nature for self preservation

Loved her heartfelt and mature conversations with granny.

Felt for her when she confessed to GTY that she has to choose survival over principles, living as the gentle, agreeable, flawless sixth miss. 

Loved it even more, the honest, sincere conversations with GTY, both before the romance, and after their marriage. 

Laughed at her non-existent archery skills and seeing her battle the fatty bandit, and then tried to pick up his sword (unsuccessfully) to protect herself.

My blood boils with her as we found out CL did exactly opposite of what the doc said to kill ML's mom. 

Smiled like an idiot when she finally accepted GTY's proposal, and everytime they show affection to each other. 

Laughed more when she was throwing her mini tantrum after the aunts tried to blackmail her with Dr.He, and that death glare she gave GTY when he tried to pacify her. 

My heart broke with hers to see granny in coma from poisoning

I'm amazed at how calm and collected she is when she carried out her revenge, both against CL and Mdm Kang. 

I cheered for her everytime she outwit and outsmart those who looked down on her, those who underestimated her. 

Felt her sadness as she cried in GTY's arm, blaming herself for granny's predicament, getting poisoned. 

Felt her trauma with finding out that her GTY died (false alarm), goes into premature labour, manor being set on fire, and the attempt on her life all at the same time. 

And now...anticipating more heartbreak, more pain, more suffering before she comes out sharper, stronger, better, cooler B), and more bad richard simmons.

 

I buy her convictions to fight for her own justice because she lives in an era what wouldn't give her one. 

I'm sold on her principles of repayment. She will repay with her life for all that she owed, and she ensures they pay with theirs for all they owed..

 

Even with the writing flaws and dramatization, the story stayed true to its title "The Story of Ming Lan"...

And personally, it's been a rewarding journey. 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, mooose said:

 

ML vs the fat bandit was hilarious! 

 

I also love some of the anticlimatic moments eg that wierd/fake scream when SH discovered ML and 6th Liang. Also that headbutt Danniang gave Changbai when he sentenced her, I just burst out laughing! :lol:

 

Yes!! The danniang headbutt was hilarious :joy: cb was all serious and then his mother headbutt him

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4 hours ago, Golden Flower said:

I'm saying the properties should be taken away but apparently not as ML held one month birthday celebration of her son at Chen garden and she was there when rebels (ED's soldiers) came. The Gu family ancestral hall also looks the same. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense that both stepmom and ML can stay in Marquess manor and Chen garden if GTY is no longer Marquess and no one else from Gu family holds the title. Both houses are given by previous emperor and current one for being Marquess family and General. Especially Chen garden is given to GTY for being a Hutuo Tu (person in charge of capital army that protects the imperial family) and it should be taken away after being convicted criminal. An official being demoted vs convicted felon are totally different situations. 

I know understand what would normally happen to property of convicted criminals but from all the dramas I’ve seen, property seiners of the nobility is at the whim of the Emperor. I haven’t seen the subbed version so I don’t know if the seizure of property was mentioned. Was the Marquis title abolished or was it just that GTY was stripped of the title? If it was just him being stripped of the title then third brother (not sure about GTY’s son) could at a later time possibly inherit the title in which case, I can see why the Gu manor was not confiscated yet and I thought Chen Garden and Gu Manor were kind of merged.  

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5 hours ago, Suzzy San said:

Hmm, I think it's now upto understanding, for me, it actually consistent considering GTY's character, he is someone that won't show his sadness and will take the light part of the matter and turn it to humor in order to release tension.. And I think that's what the writer was going, everything was becoming too serious, and GTY is known for jokingly lessening the gravity of seriousness in the show like he did for the land case, that ML got angry over .. So it's not that he isn't sad about the predicaments ML is going through, he is rather afraid, sad, sorrowful but wants to make sure her own anxious and worried state is lessened

since I have not seen the episode I will reserve my comments, thank you though

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1 hour ago, mooose said:

 

ML vs the fat bandit was hilarious! 

 

I also love some of the anticlimatic moments eg that wierd/fake scream when SH discovered ML and 6th Liang. Also that headbutt Danniang gave Changbai when he sentenced her, I just burst out laughing! :lol:

 

The actress who played Daniang confirmed in a reply on wb that the headbutt was specifically designed by herself. :lol: I guess it shows although she was furious with CB, she loved CB too much to slap him like Old Madam Wang.

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On 2/8/2019 at 7:04 PM, dito said:

 

He knew about QH and what he investigated about her family but not the details of her childhood and stuff.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The first conversation had most of what she said to QH in the temple about how the world is different for men and women. How women pay the price for love men walk free. She said look at you....you went around doing ridiculous things for 10 years and when you came back you were welcomed as prodigal son. If I take a single wrong step my life is ruined. Then she told him about her childhood. After her mom died, if granny had not cared for her she wouldn't be here today. Her childhood was spent being worried and afraid for her tomorrow. She is a shu daughter.....so for her love and things like that.... she does not have luxury to afford those things. 

Then she talks about general shen's first wife who died saving the empress....says you say they both loved each other very much. But look at them now...woman is dead the husband is married to another, has a child on the way. Is that love? She paid the price for his family to stay alive. Would you want me to do something like that for you? GTY gets angry and says of course not. She says loving someone is not dying for them but doing everything in your power to stay alive for them.

 

He then asks about QH, that did she ever love him. And she tells him she never had any thoughts of him. He is too high for her. And she's not someone who pines for someone out of reach and only to end up crying broke hearted when he marries someone else. GTY tells her he heard QH fought his mother a lot for you. ML gets angry and says so what? Just because he likes me, I have to like him too. Then something about if QH had the ability to do more then he'd have got her(not sure about this) she was being very cruel talking about QH. GTY says if he could hear what you think about him....ML tells him she said even worse things than this to QH's face. Then he asks why do you look guilty when I talk about him. ML says because he was sincere and I was selfish. He really liked me and never looked down on me, was never embarrassed to be with me but all I ever thought about was myself.

 

So if you want me to like you....then I can't help you. Because I'm already a person without a heart and soul.

She was crying heavily by the end and GTY wanted to comfort her but went back to his study and thought a lot. Then later that night he came back and saw her sleeping with their son, her face still wet with tears. Seeing her like that he just gave up and moved back in. Told the servants to move his stuff back in the morning.

 

This is of course, not 100% accurate....only what i could understand from Google translate.

 

The second conversation happened after he came back to handle granny's poisoning. 

By then the Gu manor was separated....Gu uncles and aunts were all living separately and struggling. GTY had already take his revenge on them. The cousin were in exile. ML only found out afterwards that this was GTYs revenge. 

GTY was asking ML about what she had done and his shock at that. ML started telling everything and crying that all of this happened because of her. Granny was worried ML life would become difficult because of the  Kang Aunt interference. Because of this fear Granny was especially harsh on Daniang which then angered Daniang to make her go this route. ML was angry at granny for always worrying about her and not even relaxing in her old age. She then told him she could have done even worse things for granny. Then she said when manniang attacked me you stayed calm and disposed of her in a very proper manner so as to avoid gossip.

But when you really have a person in your heart, and they are in danger you will feel panic and loose your senses...like me with grandmother. Tell me when you first heard Manniang attacked me....how did feel....did you panic? Did you feel your mind in chaos? even after knowing I was unharmed did you feel furious enough to go avenge me immediately?  

GTY stayed silent. ML continued ..I feel that true love is not how many smart things you do for the other but how many stupid things you do for them. We will grow old and love each other for the rest of our lives so I must be a good wife and a good mother....just like this.

GTY then remembered something that ML said a long time ago.......too many emotions you can easily get hurt.....living a life of calm contentment is the best.

 

I paraphrased a lot....and somethings that i couldn't understand...I guessed.....so again not 100% accurate.

@dito.... Thanks for this translation chingu..  I am going to be honest here. I love this drama but I love Ming Lan I. The book more because her POV moments are hilarious. I started reading the book because I love reading ML as a child. She is so adorable. Many thanks for the scenes chingu 

 

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I just wanna point out some facts as some posters are confused and kept saying them wrong.

(1) HL has been raised by grandma when she was young (it was mentioned in ep1 when Grandma gave HL her dowry) and that's why her thought process and behavior has been different from RL though they are both Daniang's daughter. Daniang also spoiled RL more being youngest, did not bare to see her suffer and did not send her to grandma. 

(2) Molan is NOT married to a Count. She is married to the sixth son of Count of Yongcheng who won't be inheriting the title (though it was not clear how many sons Madam Wu has, it wasn't mentioned Liang Han was the only di son. I'm pretty sure she has older di sons though the oldest is a shu son.) So, Molan's son if she got any in the future won't also inherit the Count title. Molan's husband currently do not have an official position and hasn't passed the imperial palace exam yet. On the other hand, GTY was lucky enough to inherit the title even though he was the second son and he is also the General of capital army. ML is already the wife of Marquess, received noble woman title and her eldest son will inherit the title. These facts already indicate huge differences in status between Molan and ML. Molan, who always wanted to be above or at least equal status with all her sisters, will be burning with fury inside. 

(3) The noble concubine Liu is NOT the niece of ED.  ED took her son as a hostage so that NCL will listen to her orders faithfully and she also might have plan to use him as a puppet emperor. NCL also gave her son to ED though she knew he was being held hostage (she made herself drunk before sending him to ED) so that she could request her help in promoting her family members (her sister asked her to request to ED for GTY's army position) and to increase the chance of her son inheriting the throne with ED's support. It was mentioned that NCL doesn't have strong maternal family being from You Zhou when she was throwing her tantrum for reducing her son's wet nurses. 

 

16 hours ago, m0us3y said:

Thanks for the explanation @Golden Flower @leeza77

I can't say I'm impressed with his behaviour, be it gleeful or happy, as it just doesn't sound right to be happy when his wife is down on her knees begging and crying, but it could be because he doesn't know and realised that she went to that extent.. only knows she created a ruckus.. I haven't actually watch the episodes, just previews and comments from fellow chingus in this thread. 

So I'll refrain from commenting further until I've watched.. so that I wouldn't jump into conclusion and judge too quickly. 

@m0us3y @zenya22 I also agree with you that GTY needing to see ML being out of her clam self should not be included in this scene. I think he seeing her getting jealous and being unhappy, for him arranging Feng Sheng's living place (concubine given by his paternal aunt) after just a few days of giving birth and facing life and death situation, should have been enough. Women can get headache quite often for the rest of their life if they cry or emotionally upset during the first month after delivery. He should already understand how much ML has begged, cried and caused ruckus when Huan Wang used the word (sapo, meaning cry, cause ruckus and being unreasonable) and said that he would have asked to carry her out forcefully if he were his mom (Empress). However, he was so gleeful to the point of even wanting to hear personal account in details from someone present at the scene. This is one of those scenes which I believe the writers added unnecessarily, losing momentum for the characters and making the drama so long. 

@matrim According to my understanding of criminal punishment law in ancient China, an official who is just being demoted won't be imprisoned and exiled unless he is convicted of a crime. @linhlinh111 am I correct? General Shen addressed him as felon Gu and it was mentioned by ML, Empress and General Shen of GTY going to be exiled (in autumn). Hopefully, we will find out in details in today's 2 episodes what happened. I stop taking literally on writers' dialogues as I have caught many discrepancies as they don't seem to remember what is being said in previous episodes. (Recently, during fire rescue scene when being prevented from helping put out fire at Chen garden by his parents, QH mentioned his mom giving ML a bangle in token of being his younger sister but actually it was southern pearl necklaces that was being given to Sheng girls.) In preview below, Molan mentioned Wang Old Madam and stepmom winning and about GTY losing Marquess title (which she said the title which he attained by lying, stealing and forcing). 

https://www.weibo.com/tv/v/Hg8DmtKst?fid=1034:4338464385083531

 

@hello210 The emperor's decree regards to GTY's punishment hasn't been shown yet. We just saw the previews of his losing title mentioned by Molan (above preview) and he being about to be exiled. I do understand Marquess house won't be taken away if third brother going to inherit the title. Then, GTY won't be getting the title back and stepmom would have kicked ML out. Marquess house and Chen garden have sort of combined but not really as they just have a gate in the wall (it is different from the book) and garden around the wall. I guess I will stop speculating/ commenting until I saw the actual episodes. I'm rather doubtful of writers taking careful considerations for these details of taking away the houses seeing how things have been presented in recent episodes 73-74. 

 

@dito I was so amazed at the writers for bringing in Bai uncle just to accuse GTY wrongfully taking his grandfather inheritance by fake will, the case which happened over at least 12 years ago and already solved in favor of GTY by Yan Zhou prefect and SH who were government officials. I understand that they want to show that stepmom want to make GTY's integrity questionable and want to portray him being above the law in front of emperor and officials by bringing in MN and Bai uncle but it is so unnecessary to bring in a case that was already settled. I thought they will make something unlawful regards in salt trading and blame it on GTY like you predicted. MN accusing GTY of killing the son in front of her, really? They could have figured out how and when the son died by looking at his bones and compared with the time MN come to GTY's house and spreading rumors in the city.

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7 hours ago, Golden Flower said:

I'm just saying it doesn't make sense that both stepmom and ML can stay in Marquess manor and Chen garden if GTY is no longer General and Marquess and no one else from Gu family holds the title. Both houses are given by previous emperor for being Marquess and current one to GTY for being General. Especially Chen garden is given to GTY for being a Hutuo Tu (person in charge of capital army that protects the imperial family) and it should be taken away after being convicted criminal. An official being demoted vs convicted felon are totally different situations. 

@Golden FlowerHmmmmm, not consistent with the laws of the land then? It is confusing. I mean it would have been good to see Madam Qin homeless. ML too would be out of a home but she has grandma and the Sheng home to run to. However,  if ML still stayed at the Chen Garden, even after the edict of property confiscation, is it not giving the the dowager reasons to claim that the emperor is not efficient in enforcing his own edict and the law and therefore a need for change in administration? 

 GTY is a convicted felon and the nonconfiscation of the property by the emperor is by design to nudge the dowager empress to anger and rebel? In this case the empress dowager would be in the right to accuse the emperor of being an inefficient ruler would she not? And the censors and scholars would be on her side. Even if GTY comes back to rescue the emperor and be given his title and properties back, I would think that the emperor would not last long. His inability to rule with consistency would not be forgotten easily. I would not blame GTY and ML if they took their family away from the capital to live peacefully and raise a big family. I just think that the emperor could have designed more calculating but reasonable plan and protect himself and his followers, to discourage the dowager from backseat ruling. 

 

How were these plots written in the book if I may ask? 

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5 minutes ago, UnniSarah said:

 Question anyone 

I was wondering was CB and GTY best friends / Brothers in the novel too. I find CB and GTY friendship really the best. 

No, it's added in the drama. They had little interactions in the novel.

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5 minutes ago, matrim said:

No, it's added in the drama. They had little interactions in the novel.

CB in the novel was no fun.. Boring strict scholar. Even with ml, he has little interaction

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