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[Current Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦

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3 minutes ago, greenwatch08 said:

I'm pretty sure he knows his wife loves him.

 

The issue is he has yet to realize that ML is not like him who express love so overtly/openly because opening herself to love frightens her. That's where he needs to understand & talk it through. She already told him that she's afraid of losing him to another woman during their argument in the night going home & it seems it's not clicking in his head. But then again, TSoML still has about 20 episodes to be aired, so more dramatic tension will ensue.

Well put.She stopped being expressive to be able to survive.Her living situation has changed.She can allow herself the freedom to be more expressive and GTY has proved time and again he is trustworthy like her grandmother.He wants her to realize it by herself rather than him doing it for her.The value of self learnt lessons are more impactful.

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To me Feng Shaofeng is handsome. I know that his look may not attractive younger people since most younger people now days like this kinda pretty boy look. FSF is just my type, manly and gentle. Of course i love his acting also. Yea im his fan so yeh.

 

Minglan's maid XioaTou was in one of FSF drama The Starry Night The Starry Sea she only appeared for 3-4 eps tho but i find it kinda funny cus in that drama XioaTou play as the girl who tried to get in between him and the lead actress lmfao and her name was Michelle lololol 

 

Sorry so out of topic. I thought it was kinda funny sooo.. Hahaha

 

 

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1 hour ago, greenwatch08 said:

I'm pretty sure he knows his wife loves him.

 

The issue is he has yet to realize that ML is not like him who express love so overtly/openly because opening herself to love/vulnerability frightens her. That's where he needs to understand & talk it through. She already told him that she's afraid of losing him to another woman during their argument in the night going home & it seems it's not clicking in his head. But then again, TSoML still has about 20 episodes to be aired, so more dramatic tension will ensue.

I think the fact that people seems to always  leave him made him like this like his mom,that crazy lady,son  and dad.He trieds to be upbeat all the time but it shows it took a toll on him.

 

I guess he wants to really see the love all the time to be comfortable since dealing with so much

Edited by dramaninja
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31 minutes ago, sava2sava said:

@dito  What is wrong with this man.. Why is he so suprised.. Scholars kill with a pen Gnrls kills with a sword.. What in the world is he scared of.. He won;t be tried and critized if he cleans out his house.. Men held power then especially in there home.. Him being a scholar was a waste on him.. Granny would have been better off rasing and orphan from the streets instead of dealing with thius nookie junkie fool.. Molan mom really F his head up..    

 

He's a little arrogant that his success is all his hard work. So he pees his pants whenever his family honor is under threat. Basically his messy family life is his one failing and he wants to keep it under wraps.

 

17 minutes ago, sava2sava said:

@dito  I was first intorduce to him in the drama Prince Lang Ling.. Similar characters.. This is probably the reason why he was choosen for this drama.. He plays a general also in that drama with Rainny Yang.. I thought he was hot in that drama especially when he came up out that water scene and threw that hair back:wub: Much Love Much Love for that scene.. I was like Whoa who is he..:wub:

 

Is that the one where he has braids in his hair?? I think I might have seen that scene somewhere...don't remember why I didn't watch the drama..was it good?  Want to see some of his other works...

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7 minutes ago, dito said:

Is that the one where he has braids in his hair?? I think I might have seen that scene somewhere...don't remember why I didn't watch the drama..was it good?  Want to see some of his other works...

Sorry cut your post. Since you talk about fsf i just want to reply. Yes thats the drama his hair is long and braids and yes it was very good. Honstely its one of his popular drama and he was younger there. I like that drama and The Starry Night The Starry Sea the most but TSNTSS might not be your taste. I think Prince of LanLing would be more of your type.

 

That drama his voice dubbed is very very different from his real voice. But you'll get use to it if you decide to watch that drama someday 

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2 hours ago, minglan1 said:

They have kept the granny poisoning plot.Yay!! We get to see no holds barred ML.Much needed for SH.How could he sacrifice old madam?He owes his life and current status,comfortable living because she was there to guide him towards it.He is extremely selfish and coward.

We all knew how selfish and disgusting human being that he is. @minglan1  

From the preview , even CB’s mom didn’t feel any regret fro trying to murder Old Mrs Sheng. She is also another selfish human being who doesn’t value life. She deserves to be manipulated, kicked out and ridicule. I don’t understand why all her children know to avoid Aunt Kang but SH’s doesn’t think her sister is a bad influence. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, UnniSarah said:

We all knew how selfish and disgusting human being that he is. @minglan1  

From the preview , even CB’s mom didn’t feel any regret fro trying to murder Old Mrs Sheng. She is also another selfish human being who doesn’t value life. She deserves to be manipulated, kicked out and ridicule. I don’t understand why all her children know to avoid Aunt Kang but SH’s doesn’t think her sister is a bad influence. 

 

 

All the children turned out to be good who can discern right from wrong unlike their  parents.A miracle that none of them turned out like them.

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15 hours ago, greenwatch08 said:

Dowager sure is defiant & an eyesore. Filial piety is important. His Magesty doesnt want to acknowledge her & deceased emperor as parents. If it wasn't for him & TY, she'd be a head on pikes. He help saved her palace. The least she can do is to grant the title to his real father. Darn ingrate. QH being annoying again. Why cant he just hush up. Now TY is going to get whipped. :crazy:.

 

While i hate the dowager i do agree with what shes doing here its incredibly disrespectful and not correct to name someone other then the past emperor as your father, in theory he was only able to become emperor because the previous emperor basically adopted him.

 

I also agree with QH acting against what the emperor is doing , where i disagree with QH is where he keeps going against GTY for personal reasons. Also hes naive and gullible and does not see the big picture. 

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@ForgottenSoulx I agree. His position is still unstable and if he were to give his father with a title if would be disrespectful aswell as lower his legitimacy for the throne. It will be easier for outside forces to stage a rebellion and put a new emperor on the throne. Since they will have alot more political support.

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40 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

While i hate the dowager i do agree with what shes doing here its incredibly disrespectful and not correct to name someone other then the past emperor as your father, in theory he was only able to become emperor because the previous emperor basically adopted him.

 

I also agree with QH acting against what the emperor is doing , where i disagree with QH is where he keeps going against GTY for personal reasons. Also hes naive and gullible and does not see the big picture. 

It's just the Dowager really irks me to no end. 

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20 minutes ago, greenwatch08 said:

The issue is he has yet to realize that ML is not like him who express love so overtly/openly because opening herself to love/vulnerability frightens her. That's where he needs to understand & talk it through. She already told him that she's afraid of losing him to another woman during their argument in the night going home & it seems it's not clicking in his head. But then again, TSoML still has about 20 episodes to be aired, so more dramatic tension will ensue.

If he knew his wife loved him, then stop the sulking. He, like Changbai said needs to talk, lay down the cards and be clear. He actually almost got what Changbai was telling him. After ML had fed him, he held her hand and and asked her gently  "what are you afraid of" and you can see the change in her face as if she was going to cry. If he had been patient and just held her hand and wipe her tears if she did cry and just listened if she talked or just held her if she did not, man oh man he was almost there and ....blew it. 

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55 minutes ago, UnniSarah said:

We all knew how selfish and disgusting human being that he is. @minglan1  

From the preview , even CB’s mom didn’t feel any regret fro trying to murder Old Mrs Sheng. She is also another selfish human being who doesn’t value life. She deserves to be manipulated, kicked out and ridicule. I don’t understand why all her children know to avoid Aunt Kang but SH’s doesn’t think her sister is a bad influence. 

 

 

 

I think that is different in the book then because im pretty sure she regretted poisoning the grandma and was deeply sorry?

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1 hour ago, dito said:

 

He's a little arrogant that his success is all his hard work. So he pees his pants whenever his family honor is under threat. Basically his messy family life is his one failing and he wants to keep it under wraps.

 

 

Is that the one where he has braids in his hair?? I think I might have seen that scene somewhere...don't remember why I didn't watch the drama..was it good?  Want to see some of his other works...

@dito  What hard work he really hven;t done didally squat. Just because he moved up in the ranks and it took him to the capital not by any of his on making.. He wasn't out catching bad guy's. I'm thinking he just got lucky because his name was choosen next in line.. If he's a true scholar he should be in tuned to the ways of the world and yet he can't even decides in his own decisions he look to his son for answers.. What A Man.. But your so right his messy famiy life is of his own making, He let Molan Mom rule him and Big Mdm.. Now he's lost in his own current status and not know right from wrong all he knows is to save family honour.. Trying to save this honor is ruining the family honor.. 

 

Yes thats the one and yes it's very good.. I think you'll enjoy it.. Give it a shot when you can..

 

54 minutes ago, UnniSarah said:

We all knew how selfish and disgusting human being that he is. @minglan1  

From the preview , even CB’s mom didn’t feel any regret fro trying to murder Old Mrs Sheng. She is also another selfish human being who doesn’t value life. She deserves to be manipulated, kicked out and ridicule. I don’t understand why all her children know to avoid Aunt Kang but SH’s doesn’t think her sister is a bad influence. 

@UnniSarah  Yes that got me she still was trying to protect her sister after she had framed her.. Blind Mom is only looking at she's the remaining direct bloodline of hers left but she's also her biggest problem.. I don't get where her and sister both thinks ML owes them. Aunt thinks she has the rights to just go to Ming Lan house just because she's on there family tree.. Yet she still don't realize how ML got listed under the family tree being that she saved the crazy niece from that god forsaken family that was about to bleed them dry..   Yes I say kick the dumb woman out SH would be better off going to a brothel.. If she has to protect her sister let her live with her sister..See what her sister do for her then because the sister is broke and wants to live off her sisters kids who have married wel.. You see she didn;t run to 4th sister house because she sees her schemes and call her out on them.. She went to ML house because she thinks ML fears her.. Little that she knows ML fears nothing in this world and will face it head on until you slip up and thats what she did when she messed with Granny.. Even Big Mdm won't be able to save her sister from ML.. She will remind her who really was the one to raise her and that person used her own money on ML not Big Mdm.. She didn;t spend a dime on ML wedding all that was done by Granny and GTY.. Which I think Big Mdm is jealous that ML married better off then all her daughters..      

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2 hours ago, hartofseeker said:

There's a lot of discussion about QH's statements at court over the posthumous title issue... but I feel like I need to hop in and defend the poor dude. 

 

Things agreed upon: 

- QH is a very... straightforward person, not the type to scheme/manipulate and therefore less likely to follow/recognize the moves of a professional manipulator =P So it's hard-pressed for him to catch on to Empress Dowager's complex scheme-- gimme a break, even old and court-savvy Minister Han got played. To QH's credit, he went out of his way to review the imperial cook/dining records to "fact" check the Empress Dowagers claims before he made his proposition on court. But of course ED was already familiar with the rules of the game and completely played the system. Objectively, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE for QH to think otherwise that ED got cheated out of the decree (especially given Minister Han's previous track record of actually tricking ED into losing the imperial seal). NO ONE who tried would have been able to find concrete evidence to prove ED's statements false, and that's why Minister Han/State Uncle Shen realized that they fell into her trap and were rhetorically screwed. 

 

Please also understand QH's ministerial role: 諫議大夫 (i.e. head of Dept of Censors and Remonstrance).The role's JOB DESCRIPTION is to provide moral guidance by calling out on any crooked behavior at the court, with legitimacy to call out even the Emperor himself. Basically it's a job where if you do it well/like you're supposed to, you're fated to be public enemy. That's why he told the servant to relay to his mom: our government does not kill 言官 (censors: the class of office that he's in, who are obligated to speak up on moral issues), so don't worry too much for my safety. All I can say was that ED set the whole court up really badly.... and QH maintained his integrity/did his job like he was supposed to, including asking the emperor to fire him as a final appeal-- on grounds of FAILING his job at convincing the emperor to recognize the error and for failing to protect him from the influence of "immoral ministers". Unfortunate and infuriating for the well-intended "good guys" (including poor QH), but not out of line/senseless/personal (spite against GTY). 

 

And probably should give the poor guy some credit-- that's a job that you constantly have to stick your neck out (risk offending a tyrant and get your head chopped off), and QH had the balls to keep his neck out all the way. 

 

This arc is actually an adaptation of a famous historical occurrence during the Song Dynasty under Emperor YingZhong-- and it was after this incident that the Dept of Censors and Remonstrance was intentionally weakened as part of the movement to centralize imperial power. In fact, the majority of QH's lines during the ultimatum were taken from court records of discussions between the "conservatives" and "reformists" around this time (though the scope of their arguments focused on huge legal reforms being pushed by Wang Anshi). 

From the brief history you shared it seems the dept was to act like a moral and ethical compass for the emperor.It was supposed to prevent him being blindsided while discharging his duties in a just manner.

It is therefore a requisite of it's officials to be able to understand political equations in the court while maintaining objectivity and providing bias free feedback.

If as a high ranking Censor official QH allows himself to become a pawn in the power play it implies failure in discharging his duties.

 

His bureau was there to prevent the emperor falling in this kind of situations which was tailor made for instability.

 

QH is a fictional character in a drama.He might be shown as part of a historical incident to lend credibility to the period timeline of the show.His justifications on doing it is different from the thoughts and reasoning of the actual censorate officials recorded in history.

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56 minutes ago, minglan1 said:

All the children turned out to be good who can discern right from wrong unlike their  parents.A miracle that none of them turned out like them.

Amen @minglan1 Buddah Bless You:wub:

 

53 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

While i hate the dowager i do agree with what shes doing here its incredibly disrespectful and not correct to name someone other then the past emperor as your father, in theory he was only able to become emperor because the previous emperor basically adopted him.

 

I also agree with QH acting against what the emperor is doing , where i disagree with QH is where he keeps going against GTY for personal reasons. Also hes naive and gullible and does not see the big picture. 

@ForgottenSoulx  This isn't really what this is about.. The King reliquish the throne to his nephew which is in the same bloodline as the king.. No one saw coming what scamm she planned because if there was no adopotion and the current King just took the throne.. She would still be the Dowager but a Dowager that has to watch her own family connection to the court just vanish.. This is why she planted the niece next took him.. I have to admit she smart and clever.. This is why they want her out of the court because she has painted a big picture hoping her neice gives birth to a male if she hasn't already to make him CP and fight for the throne still keeping her corrupt family in power..

Now as for as the recognition goes, Should he not recognize his father who raised him feed him nutured him into the man he is none of this was done by the King.. Talk about moral virtous were is that then.. That's being disrepectful to his bio father who is also a prince of that country.. It's a damned if you do situation damned if yiou don't.. It's really a subject that none of low citizens in the country would care about all they looking fiorward to his they next meal both men or dead.. 

 

I have a question.. Should he not pay his respect to his father doing his memorial period all because the king adopted him ay 40..? 

 

On to a more serious note.. In court they are talking about the salt corruption.. I think this is were they'll frame GTY this is the ED doing who may have gang up with evil step mom to try and strip GTY of some of his wealth.. 

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1 hour ago, zenya22 said:

If he knew his wife loved him, then stop the sulking. He, like Changbai said needs to talk, lay down the cards and be clear. He actually almost got what Changbai was telling him. After ML had fed him, he held her hand and and asked her gently  "what are you afraid of" and you can see the change in her face as if she was going to cry. If he had been patient and just held her hand and wipe her tears if she did cry and just listened if she talked or just held her if she did not, man oh man he was almost there and ....blew it. 

That's why he needs to continue to talk to her/not avoid her. I agree, the way he's going about it is a bit brash. But that's where he's going to learn/grow from this. Same w/ML. TY is afraid that ML hasnt trust his love for her is real & ML haven't fully immersed herself/open to TY because she's afraid/yet to realize that TY's love for her is genuine/devoted.

 

Currently, they're aren't on the same level emotionally. Theyre together for a year now but its going to take time for both of them to resolve their internal conflict. Remember that scene during their conversation that night about G Shen&his former wife & how TY never seen such a loving pair & ML agrees. There's the disconnect between ML & TY. They both been deflecting up to this point. So the more they communicate the better, though it seems its heading in that direction. 

 

Theyve been pretty headstrong together even through all the political upheaval/family affairs that's brewing. TSoML does a great job illustrating how imperfect marriage is, which makes the current tension all more realistic/fun to watch. There's still 20 episodes left so there's still room for development/

growth. 

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2 hours ago, greenwatch08 said:

I'm pretty sure he knows his wife loves him.

 

The issue is he has yet to realize that ML is not like him who express love so overtly/openly because opening herself to love/vulnerability frightens her. That's where he needs to understand & talk it through. She already told him that she's afraid of losing him to another woman during their argument in the night going home & it seems it's not clicking in his head. But then again, TSoML still has about 20 episodes to be aired, so more dramatic tension will ensue.

I agree, in ep 57, when both he and the shen general went for boys night out, if you all remember the lady, his friend, weixingshou, that was with him at the polo match that made where he saw Yanran, and helped her, they went to the lady's brothel

so he now asked the lady that his friend's wife does the absolute best for him, she kepps the home peaceful, she is so perfect at taking care of the house but somehow him/'his friend' is discontented, that why is it like that..

The lady now said, even though she knows he is talking about himself, that the husband must find the lady boring,

he said, no, she is very interesting, so interesting.. She now asked when was he the happiest with her,

he said when she finished half of a whole pig trotter herself, he was happier that day than the new year itself, like her feelings was so sincere, there was no thinking involved..

The woman now said, looks like your wife is not pretentious,

he said quite the opposite, she is always covering up, no matter what he says, she nods her head, no matter what I do, she speaks in support, I don't really know if she is helping me or just doing it for her marquis husband, then he was like 'omo I just said my name when I was supposed to talk about my friend' 

The shen Gen, now joined them and said, GTY just has the personality of making trouble out of nothing, that among the houses, which house is as peaceful as his, which big Madam is as virtuous as his, 

He now said, I don't want her to be virtuous, I want her to be real.. 

 

So I think he knows she loves him but as we all can feel too, which he also feels, she still covers up so that's why he is still acting pouty, I think they're done with the phase now, his pride just took over and that's why he is still pretending to be angry.. This couple makes me laugh more than normal, it's like real life issues 

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57 minutes ago, Suzzy San said:

I agree, in ep 57, when both he and the shen general went for boys night out, if you all remember the lady, his friend, weixingshou, that was with him at the polo match that made where he saw Yanran, and helped her, they went to the lady's brothel

so he now asked the lady that his friend's wife does the absolute best for him, she kepps the home peaceful, she is so perfect at taking care of the house but somehow him/'his friend' is discontented, that why is it like that..

The lady now said, even though she knows he is talking about himself, that the husband must find the lady boring,

he said, no, she is very interesting, so interesting.. She now asked when was he the happiest with her,

he said when she finished half of a whole pig trotter herself, he was happier that day than the new year itself, like her feelings was so sincere, there was no thinking involved..

The woman now said, looks like your wife is not pretentious,

he said quite the opposite, she is always covering up, no matter what he says, she nods her head, no matter what I do, she speaks in support, I don't really know if she is helping me or just doing it for her marquis husband, then he was like 'omo I just said my name when I was supposed to talk about my friend' 

The shen Gen, now joined them and said, GTY just has the personality of making trouble out of nothing, that among the houses, which house is as peaceful as his, which big Madam is as virtuous as his, 

He now said, I don't want her to be virtuous, I want her to be real.. 

 

So I think he knows she loves him but as we all can feel too, which he also feels, she still covers up so that's why he is still acting pouty, I think they're done with the phase now, his pride just took over and that's why he is still pretending to be angry.. This couple makes me laugh more than normal, it's like real life issues 

TY has a big personality & in the way he express love while ML is more reserve in that sense. They both know they love eachother but it's just there's a bit of doubt & uncertainty that frightens them, like in every relationship/marriage between two people. 

 

I agree. It feels more realistic & seeing the dramatic tension/bafflement unfold onscreen is hilarious. They both need to communicate & learn to resolve internal conflicts to be on the same pace.

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1 hour ago, minglan1 said:

From the brief history you shared it seems the dept was to act like a moral and ethical compass for the emperor.It was supposed to prevent him being blindsided while discharging his duties in a just manner.

It is therefore a requisite of it's officials to be able to understand political equations in the court while maintaining objectivity and providing bias free feedback.

If as a high ranking Censor official QH allows himself to become a pawn in the power play it implies failure in discharging his duties.

 

His bureau was there to prevent the emperor falling in this kind of situations which was tailor made for instability.

 

QH is a fictional character in a drama.He might be shown as part of a historical incident to lend credibility to the period timeline of the show.His justifications on doing it is different from the thoughts and reasoning of the actual censorate officials recorded in history.

 

Me mentioning the actual censorate records was a fun easter egg to bring up-- but thanks for re-emphasizing my point ;):grin::thumbsup:: in actual censorate records, the language QH's char used was applied to a different situation (the legal/systematic reformation pushed by Wang Anshi), by the same factions who argued over how to title Emperor YingZhong's birth father. I'm too lazy to translate the exact lines borrowed (people have posted them on weibo) but the lines are interesting because they illustrate the interests/role this odd-duck office that censorates played in the Chinese imperial system. 

 

The office itself does not give you any special insight to political maneuverings-- that's a matter of the official's wisdom in deciphering tricky rhetoric. QH is young, and as mentioned, too straightforward to completely recognize manipulators-- but the other integral nature to someone in this post is an unshakable moral compass despite political pressures (which QH did here, except he was too green to see that it was completely a set up. So... give him more experience with seeing the the crazy plots that people pull, he could very well become a great censorate). 

 

So let's go back to how this all went down in the first place. Minister Han brings up in Court Session 1 the topic that Emperor had kind of put off-- how to title his birth father. In that discussion, QH made the judgment call on the opposite stance based on very legitimate reasoning (which even MingLan said had stronger legitimacy than what the Emperor and Minister Han had proposed, though GTY replied that fighting for the title was Emperor's means of nudging Empress Dowager off court; i.e. getting the title was the means not the end). Here QH does that censorate job of reminding Emperor that his argument lacked legitimacy. 

 

Then (from QH's perspective), Minister Han suddenly presents a decree at Court Session 2 claiming that ED agreed to Emperor's illegitimate request, on a day that ED inexplicably was NOT in court. Requests by QH and other officials for clarification at this strange/questionable turn of events were ignored (which made it even more shady). Emperor ignored it because somehow his minister dropped what Emperor had wanted into his lap: ED has now relinquished regency (no longer attending court) and gave his birth father the requested title. Then ED calls QH to attendance and spins this story that she was forced by Minister Han to sign the decree (not written by her) under influence of alcohol. This is a highly possible strike 2 against Minister Han's integrity after the imperial seal incident. QH did the limited investigation he could do (check imperial cook records) and concludes that Minister Han did indeed trick ED-- which if true was totally immoral and he's obligated to call it out at court. Court Session 3, ED's acting, Minister Han/State Uncle Shen/Emperor's response by trying to hush-hush ED out of court only served to cement QH/conservative faction's suspicions. If QH was more savvy, he would have offered a middle-ground that (1) perhaps more time is needed to investigate the claims/find more evidence to make his suspicions legitimate at court, or (2) wait till ED feels better to revisit issue so the decree can be legitimized through her explicit approval. The correctness of the "means" is almost more important than the "end" when arguing about legitimacy-- so his censorate role obligates him to raise these issues.

 

Alas, he was too young... and jumped the gun out of frustration at what he saw as a lawless court (trick people into signing stuff, coerce/scare them into keep silent at the unfairness, blatantly trying to sweep all of this under the rug, etc.) trying to implement what he saw as an illegitimate/immoral action (giving birth father Royal Father title and shafting/denying the adopted father what was due to him... I guess they couldn't give both dads the same titles or resources wouldn't allow such a thing i.e. temple construction etc). Again this is my guess at how QH was exposed to the series of events and hence I think it's reasonable that he behaved the way he did + he did his job. ED played a really good move that literally made the entire court fall for; she used QH's ministerial duties and character (willingness to fight to the end for what is just) to the "T"-- it's hard to fault him if his duties were exactly the tools that ED used in her scheme.... :skull: She hijacked a moral issue to use it for her political maneuverings 

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