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[Current Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦

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My two cents...

 

If only we could hear the internal dialogue of what is going on in every characters head.... Then we can understand their actions....:wub:

 

Being frustrated is meaningless.

Sit back and enjoy the show, it is not perfect without flaws....:sweatingbullets:

 

The discussion is great, but a little too intense... :D

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6 minutes ago, Kashi_Saiko said:

My two cents...

 

If only we could hear the internal dialogue of what is going on in every characters head.... Then we can understand their actions....:wub:

 

Being frustrated is meaningless.

Sit back and enjoy the show, it is not perfect without flaws....:sweatingbullets:

 

The discussion is great, but a little too intense... :D

 

Sorry i get a little heated i know what im trying to say but the words just refuse to come out so i get annoyed.

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5 hours ago, mooose said:

 

What about Madam Wu not being upfront to the Shens about 6th Liang's pregnant mistress? Was that evil?

 

I think marriage matters were a matter of due diligence by parents. Of course bachelors with a clean background and backyard were more eligible. Not making it public doesn't make GTY evil. GTY was living openly in the city with MN and kids, he didn't hide her in the countryside. The information was available if you looked just like 6th Liang info.

Nope it’s also wrong.

Thats why granny was furious the thought of having ML marry into her household even though they are good friends with Madam Wu. 

 

Sweet, kind, and virtuous are all sugar coated words. It doesn’t change the fact that GTY was looking for a submissive wife to take advantage of her for MN. Everyone and their dogs knew MN was an evil woman. Only GTY failed to realize and deny it. GTY was trying to keep it a secret from Yanran family but her grandfather knew about it and confronted GTY that’s when he had no choice but to tell him and make a pledge. When they accepted they had no idea what a witch MN was until she came to foil the marriage. The greedy parents of Yanran didn’t care and push the other sister to marriage until they found out he had kids which they didn’t know. And guess who GTY blamed? ML! And now he doesn’t want a virtuous wife?! Isn’t he being a hypocrite. 

 

GTY can make all the pledges and oaths in this world for all I care but it is nothing more than empty promises if he doesn’t put it to action! Just because someone doesn’t believe you doesn’t mean you should spite them! If you really cared about that person then you prove them wrong! 

 

ML can only have soo many excuses to dodge all these concubines sooner or later she will need to accept them. News flash that’s the society they live in. Even the Emperor is forced to have concubines and can’t keep his harem empty! What more a successful man as GTY. Just because she accepted a concubine doesn’t mean GTY should spite her for it. It doesn’t mean she doesn’t love him nor believe him. But if he doesn’t stay true to his words and goes against his promises than what does that make him? What does ML think then, she was right. All man are the same. I’m sure ML is testing GTY too. He will have a harem one way or another just don’t touch them! Maybe he is just afraid he would have no control so better they are not there! Then I’ll question his resolves.

 

Of course we know that he didn’t sleep with the concubine but he should not test ML patience’s because these silly mind games never work and it always become much more complicated later on. Hence the big fight on QH.

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4 hours ago, hello210 said:

 

 

Lol...you beat me to it. GTY chose Yanran, not because she was weak, but because she was seen as very virtuous by many people.  She didn’t discriminate against the brothel women when they needed help with something  (based on info from courtesan at polo match) so he felt that Yanran would not discriminate against giving MN a position so that the kids can have a place in the family.  I don’t see being virtuous as weak, however it didn’t help that Yanran really was too soft a person. Aside from Rong’er and Chang’er, I think he already made up his mind about not having any more Shu or illegitimate children. Not saying anything outright about women and children that a man had prior to marriage is actually the norm in those times (even in modern times in certain social groups). If a man wanted to take responsibility and they’re “considerate”, they usually bring it up once they’ve married and their wife has established themselves in their position as the main wife so that when concubines enter the picture, they’re not as threatened. This is the ideal situation but we all know things can go differently as seen in the Sheng household. 

 

ML’s actions/reactions are both experience bound and era bound. It’s common for other women to enter prestigious households, why not do it her own way. No matter how much GTY can say or show his love, it’s not GTY but other women. For me, i think it’s that saying, “It’s not you I don’t trust, but I don’t trust them.” Because there are many tricks that women had in those days. He was tricked before just as her father was tricked and 6th Liang was tricked. Both GTY and ML were lucky that lady hadn’t been told by Aunt Kang or Stepmom to drug GTY, then that night would have been a whole different story. If she focuses on her role as Main Wife, she can still love him, but she can separate concubine matters as any other household duty, especially when she’s taught by Grandma to not rely on him excessively. And I also think that for ML, if she fully allows herself to be immersed in GTY the way he is with her, loosing him would devastate her more than anything else. However, men (even though GTY who knows her best) will still never fully understand this part of a woman’s heart. ML also never really seeing love being expressed, doesn’t know how to assuage GTY’s insecurity. Her trying to be sugary like MN or CL, would be just like how Da Niang was when she tried it :lol:. It’s both of them needing to be clearer in their communication with each other about these matters and understanding of each other’s POV’s. 

 

This whole part also matches one of the interpretations of the poem, the green should be plush and the red lean. I saw it somewhere that it was about the domestic life of women in that era, and also of aging. Women, often loose their sway on their husbands as they get older (husbands loose interest) and younger ones are presented to their prestigious husbands as concubines. It’s another thing that wives in this era sees as inevitable so she can’t fully rely on a husband.

Can I cry, I just love your explanation so much. You said it all so clearly.. In the end, both of them still need some work to do about their communication regarding their feelings 

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I'm actually re-watching some of the older episodes while waiting for the new episodes to come out and gets subbed. 

I don't know how I get myself into this mess and world of painful waiting. :huh:

 

But re-watching the older episodes do have it's perks. 

I noticed ZLY has a cuteness switch that she can pretty much turn on and off anytime! 

That cute innocent look she had when she was daughter of Sheng, and next moment, she's the total badass wife of GTY.

No more cute innocent vibe from her. 

:lol:

 

I love the ferocious her that would not be bullied, but I do miss the cute ML! 

 

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Someone mentioned GTY worry that if ML was another persons husband would she be the same... Well why shouldn’t she? One way or another she will need to protect her life and defend her family! Isn’t that a selfish thought if that is what he really thinks? When we love someone don’t we love them the way we know how to? The variation of love and how we treat someone differently depends on the person we are with... If GTY really worried if she will be the same dutiful wife then he should take a look at the other husbands she would’ve married. Why don’t he compare himself to them? What he can do differently that is more deserving to be ML husband that she would treat him differently... Rather then comparing how ML would treat them the same.

 

Didn’t GTY show his pampering and love to ML the way he did for MN? GTY would even sacrifice the Gu household for MN. Did ML ever spite him for that? The way QH wife was being spiteful towards his first love.

 

GTY can have any woman he wanted. But what he needed was ML, because he needs someone strong enough to fight the Gu household. Someone who wasn’t like MN. And most importantly someone who he can trust. The love part was out of the equation. He didn’t need her to love him, as long as she married him it was good enough. That’s why he took all the great measures to foil her marriage arrangement. And even lie in front of QH as if he didn’t know he still had feelings for ML... I see GTY as an opportunist. I hope that in their upcoming fights I will see the changes in both of them to be more understanding and accepting towards one another. 

5 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

I'm actually re-watching some of the older episodes while waiting for the new episodes to come out and gets subbed. 

I don't know how I get myself into this mess and world of painful waiting. :huh:

 

But re-watching the older episodes do have it's perks. 

I noticed ZLY has a cuteness switch that she can pretty much turn on and off anytime! 

That cute innocent look she had when she was daughter of Sheng, and next moment, she's the total badass wife of GTY.

No more cute innocent vibe from her. 

:lol:

 

I love the ferocious her that would not be bullied, but I do miss the cute ML! 

 

The bangs was an indication of her maturing haha. 

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7 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

I'm actually re-watching some of the older episodes while waiting for the new episodes to come out and gets subbed. 

I don't know how I get myself into this mess and world of painful waiting. :huh:

 

But re-watching the older episodes do have it's perks. 

I noticed ZLY has a cuteness switch that she can pretty much turn on and off anytime! 

That cute innocent look she had when she was daughter of Sheng, and next moment, she's the total badass wife of GTY.

No more cute innocent vibe from her. 

:lol:

 

I love the ferocious her that would not be bullied, but I do miss the cute ML! 

 

 

ZLY has always been one of my favourite actress and this show just made me love her more , will watch some of her other shows now.

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Okay so after having watched episode 51, I'm very disappointed with QH. When I was hoping he was actually going to be mature and do his job without acting on his personal feelings...but nope :crazy:  Yes, he was doing his job to an extent which is fair enough (officials must have a clean and respectable background so some complaint was understandable onto GTY) but his conversation later on with GTY says otherwise. The idea that GTY 'betrayed' QH's trust by marrying ML is now a precursor that he will let down/betray the emperor is such a weak argument. Ahhhh what makes me mad is that QH's character development could have been better than this :unsure: For example, I was pleased when  QH  prayed for ML's happiness and a good future husband because it showed his maturity (I know he was forced into his marriage with his first wife but he faithfully followed through with it).

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6 minutes ago, cherubstomato said:

 

 

 

I agree with everything you said but i dont think he went after ML so she can fight against GU family , i do think he went after ML because he fell for her at the river which is what he said.

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6 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

 

I agree with everything you said but i dont think he went after ML so she can fight against GU family , i do think he went after ML because he fell for her at the river which is what he said.

Yes, but more like not get taken advantage of by the Gu household. I’m just pointing out that he knew ML didn’t love him from the start, their marriage wasn’t for love, and she still had lingering feelings for QH. So now he needs to practice patience with ML and not spite her and throw tantrums when he doesn’t get the reactions he wants from her. 

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8 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

 

I agree with everything you said but i dont think he went after ML so she can fight against GU family , i do think he went after ML because he fell for her at the river which is what he said.

He fell for her bcoz of caring and compassionate attitudes ml shown towards her daughter. He's really a family man. Ml wittiness, cleverness, fiestiness are all added bonus to him. Like he is winning a jackpot. 

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I thoroughly enjoyed episode 52. 

At the start GTY earns brownie points from grandma Sheng for defending ML. Even earns the blessings of his departed MIL by acknowledging her and making his wife cry happy tears.

A good turn deserves to be balanced in ML' s book of life accounting.

So an impending face off between GTY and grand aunt is sealed with the entry of a concubine in Cheng Garden while exposing the machinations of the late Marquis's widow.

A good day doesn't end witha good night's sleep for faithful GTY.His shenanigans of making ML jealous fails and he quietly makes his way into their bedroom at the crack of dawn.

 

ML is not an easy nut to crack. Even though unhappy she let's her husband spend the night with a concubine. Matters of the heart can't be forced.If he desires someone ML can never stop it from happening. All she can do is guard her heart from being hurt.

She has fallen for GTY and is trying her best to prepare for an heartache which she thinks is inevitable.

 

The night ends on a bitter sweet note.

The world for women and men are indeed different.

A man can blow of steam as he pleases. A woman even if cherished still has to mind her p's and q's before indulging in a similar fashion.

 

Try and try till you succeed is the motto of evil step mother.But villainy isn't an easy job in the Gu household,it is laborious work.The news of GTY shunning the concubine for his wife will bring home the bitter truth along with her morning cup of tea.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, minglan1 said:

I thoroughly enjoyed episode 52. 

At the start GTY earns brownie points from grandma Sheng for defending ML. Even earns the blessings of his departed MIL by acknowledging her and making his wife cry happy tears.

A good turn deserves to be balanced in ML' s book of life accounting.

So an impending face off between GTY and grand aunt is sealed with the entry of a concubine in Cheng Garden while exposing the machinations of the late Marquis's widow.

A good day doesn't end witha good night's sleep for faithful GTY.His shenanigans of making ML jealous fails and he quietly makes his way into their bedroom at the crack of dawn.

 

ML is not an easy nut to crack. Even though unhappy she let's her husband spend the night with a concubine. Matters of the heart can't be forced.If he desires someone ML can never stop it from happening all she can do isguard her heart from being hurt.

She has fallen for GTY and is trying her best to prepare for an heartache which she thinks is inevitable.

The night ends on a bitter sweet note.The world for women and men are indeed different.

A man can blow of steam as he pleases a woman even if cherished still has to mind her p's and q's before indulging in a similar fashion.

 

Try and try till you succeed is the motto of evil step mother.But villainy is not an easy job in the Gu household,it is a laborious work.The news of GTY shunning the concubine for his wife will bring home the bitter truth along with her morning cup of tea.

 

 

I've actually watched that concubine thingy, ML had to accept the girl and also had to not have a reputation of being easily jealous like she said so that's why she made sure GTY stayed with her, GTY understands so he was also forced to stay not that he was playing the game of minds or even trying to make her jealous, but he thought since she didn't get jealous openly, she would get angry when she got back to the room and that's why he asked Xiatao to check on her but when he said nothing like that happened, and they have slept, even though he was also disappointed, he still made sure to go back to her during the night.. So nothing about the concubine was intentional from either's side, they were just trying to flow with the mood but still resolve to each other's side.. What a complicated world they live.. Where they have to go against their hearts.. 

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40 minutes ago, leeza77 said:

He fell for her bcoz of caring and compassionate attitudes ml shown towards her daughter. He's really a family man. Ml wittiness, cleverness, fiestiness are all added bonus to him. Like he is winning a jackpot. 

And suddenly his jackpot lacks love. 

Now he's scared that she doesn't love him back. :lol:

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 A bit off topic but I wanted to discuss a bit about the Emperor, ED and palace politics. So I've read in a previous post that GTY pubically asked for leniency for his GU family on purpose as an elaborate scheme. Do you guys still think that is the case that GTY and the prince are scheming to get rid of the ED's power? For me, I'm a little unsure since ED and GTY's stepmother are both scheming against him but I guess that's the norm for the latter :sweatingbullets: Also, what are anyone's thoughts on the current Emperor? To me, he seems a bit eh, this is coming from the fact that he was refusing to become Emperor even though the previous Emperor was in a precarious situation. Anyways, onto the ED, at first she was fine but as we know, she seems to want to hold onto power. Commenting on her conversation with GTY in much earlier episodes, I think she was mentioning how her husband (the previous Emperor) was generous and benevolent and yet GTY seems to be going back on it (something along these lines...I can't exactly remember but you'll get the gist of it). On this point, I do agree especially watching the scene where the palace maid during the rebellion mentioned how the Emperor didn't say anything when she hadn't done her job of getting the tea. Plus the ED also said that he was forgiving (?) towards the palace servants whenever they made a mistake. However, being a kind Emperor doesn't necessarily make you a good ruler. I say this because he was about to make the heir from the Yong (?) family the Emperor supposedly. Yes, the Yong family had lots of power and connections and we didn't get to see much as of them,  so I can't have quite an accurate grasp of the personality of the Yong heir. However, what I can say is they did abuse power and justice. For example, they had a noble daughter (I don't know her name) kidnapped, raped and made a mockery in the crowds when she was thrown out simply on the basis that the Yong/third princess wants to marry QH. They refused the other family justice in finding the culprit (for obvious reasons) due to their might, connection and power. Furthermore, they held QH's father captive (QH's mother even begged the ED) and threatened QH with ML and her family's disappearance. QH even laughed when he said something along the lines of what has the world/country become with future rulers like this ... ED seems to have ignored/not known this about the Yong family which she has a lot of support from in the current palace politics. If you read this all, thanks it's:D quite rambly and disjointed at times but I find it interesting. 

 

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Omg what's really funny was how when GTY was giving ML the silent treatment and not saying anything at first after that homewarming thingy with QH at ep 54, her anxious face was really wide, that she just wanted to burst and pour out her problems too.. Wow so funny Zhao liying's eyeballs are so big.. I love her innocent but dumb reaction really. Hahhahahhahh

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18 minutes ago, Suzzy San said:

I've actually watched that concubine thingy, ML had to accept the girl and also had to not have a reputation of being easily jealous like she said so that's why she made sure GTY stayed with her, GTY understands so he was also forced to stay not that he was playing the game of minds or even trying to make her jealous, but he thought since she didn't get jealous openly, she would get angry when she got back to the room and that's why he asked Xiatao to check on her but when he said nothing like that happened, and they have slept, even though he was also disappointed, he still made sure to go back to her during the night.. So nothing about the concubine was intentional from either's side, they were just trying to flow with the mood but still resolve to each other's side.. What a complicated world they live.. Where they have to go against their hearts.. 

He was disappointed that she didn't put up a fight and not accept..If ML wanted she could have.If she had given him the chance he could also manage to not let the concubine enter.But she completly cornered him into the fait accompli.

He had learned in the morning that she pretends being calm in situations because she doesn't care.She cared enough for her mom to break out of that.She didn't do it for him for the concubine incident.

I guess the next episode will shed light on their thought processes when they converse.

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Guys my father taught I and my sisters the essence of marriage today and I say I now have a vast view about this marriage thing going on.. My dad said, even though there are some norms in marriage like wife loving husband, wife doing all works, wife being submissive, but he said all these norms doesn't mean a fulfilled marriage, they best thing is taming, while an understanding man is what we all wants, understanding isn't accomplished at once, we have to curb them one by one.. So I think I now understand ML more and I also understand GTY's anxiety to get them to the understanding part quickly.. But it's just that in real life, the woman does what GTY is doing while the men act like ML.. They must know each other's soft core and that's what will make the understanding and communication easier.. Oh he also said giving a woman space is very essential because we women enjoys our freedom and space more than anything.. 

Just thought I should share this here so that maybe we can get each of them thoughts more.. They are both right and they are both doing what they know idls the best way.. Marriage is a matter of two different people from two different culture and family teachings.. So I love this, before I really hate marriage thingy but now I think I want to get married too as marriage is really an interesting school that teaches one better.. 

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12 minutes ago, minglan1 said:

He was disappointed that she didn't put up a fight and not accept..If was ML wanted she could have.If she had given him the chance he could also managed to not let the concubine enter.But she completly cornered him into the fait accompli.

He had learned in the morning that she pretends being calm in situations because she doesn't care.She cared enough for her mom to break out of that.She didn't do it for him for the concubine incident.

I guess the next episode will shed light on their thought processes when they converse.

Hmm you are also right though, he has learned in the morning that if she cared enough she will put up a confrontation, so he was expecting her to be that way too if she cared, but we also know as viewers, while he doesn't fully know as a character, that while she cared for her mother a lot, she did things silently and only after years upon years did she do something face to face, when they cornered her, so I think she is also working silently until they actually corner her a lot till she do a face to face confrontation with them too.. Hahhahahhahh.. This is so funny.. Wow ML is the only one I know that will wait and remember everything for years till she is fully ready for a confrontation.. Wow...so expected of her.. Right now I think it all boils down to what the script exposes the characters to, if they are not told to know and understand, then someone from the character has to open it for them and make them understand, but it seems this time we might need the help of Changbai to open the first phase by telling him to talk clearly to her and ML for the second phase of making him understand her by telling him her own Pov about her fears, experiences and the norms they must live with.. It's the counseling period now.. Looks like marriage counseling have started way back in history 

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@minglan1 actually, I don't think he failed. ML wasn't happy, but she just refused to show it because she believes it's inevitable anyway. 

I don't really understand what was said between ML and Danju (watched raw) but she didn't look happy. 

 

As @cherubstomato said, he's playing a dangerous game. 

Basically it would backfire on him. Because she would now believe that GTY's words were all empty, and just like all men, they would sleep with multiple women. So she would guard her heart even more closely. 

 

That's why I was frustrated. 

 

Some said she hurt him with her words too, which I don't deny. But she has never promised him anything. He knew she had her past. He knew she didn't love him the way he does. 

She said she will repay him with her life, and everything she did has been to protect him, ensuring his safety and his reputation. 

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