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[Current Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦

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1 hour ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

ML accepted the concubine but does she really knows shes hurting GTY by doing this? I dont really think so.. GTY went out of his way to make ML jealous or upset her...

 

So because he didnt know MN was evil that disregards anything he richard simmons done? he still had sex with a female outside of marriage and got her pregnant not once but twice.. this already shows how he was as a man.

 

What's wrong with him hiding the fact he has 2 children and another women from the person hes intending to marry? you really just asked that... He wanted to keep it hidden then basically force that wife to accept them..

 

Are you re writing history or just blind.. he was never upfront about MN or his children to the lady he intended to marry he wanted that hidden until he married her so yeah he was evil for attempting to do that. 

I'm confused everyone knows he married MN and he has children when he wanted to marry Yanran, the only fault was that he was trying to sabotage someone's happiness for his mistress and children's peace.. While he was even oblivious of how evil the stupid mistress he is fighting for is.. GTY lived some stupid and dumb days back then though.. Wow 

 

36 minutes ago, gleek49 said:

 

1. Again, he stayed in that girl's room because she wanted him to, which part of it is "went out of his way"?

2. Yes, I was blind, he was "evil" for sleeping with a woman before marriage, because all of the men in the drama were virgins before marriage. Yes, he was wrong, literally everyone in the drama and audience was trashing him for it, but at that point the children were born already, he still had to take care of them and he tried his best to find a solution for them, you called that "evil"? It's not like the girl would be completely screwed being his main wife? She was going to be main wife, the power would still be in her hand if she's smart enough. He made mistakes, I'm not denying that, he's still paying for it until today. I thought we got pass this? I thought we all agree that he has earned his rights to start over? Why are you still holding this over his head?

3. You're still not answering my question. I'm saying that it hurts him that ML always expect him to betray his promise, betray her. How is that mistake of his that you were talking about remotely similar to what I was saying?

Exactly, ML, even though she had no choice accepted the concubine, and she even believed that he will sleep with her, so he is just doing what she planned, even though it hurts each other, so I think the concubine issue was a misdeed from both of them, even after accepting the lady, she shouldn't always view it that he will sleep with her, and even though she viewed it like that, GTY shouldn't also play along the game and become as childish as her.. So it's still the same saying, they should just argue and pour everything out from their heart.. 

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48 minutes ago, gleek49 said:

 

1. Again, he stayed in that girl's room because she wanted him to, which part of it is "went out of his way"?

So glad she’s not really a concubine. They haven’t made anything official so there’s still no Xiao Niang in that Gu household. I think that’s what happens to all the women that get pushed onto GTY. They either find ways to marry them off or find other uses for them and take care of them financially but no official marriage as concubines.

Spoiler

Thought I saw in the novel spoilers that the first two women the prince gifted him, GTY married them off as ghost brides so the prince gave him four dancers who got used, not as bedmates, but as actual dancers :lol:

 

Hmmm...maybe that’s why the girl tries to hurt herself in front of ML later because she didn’t get a concubine position like she originally thought and the fact that GTY wouldn’t sleep with her so she can try to establish a position.

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9 minutes ago, Suzzy San said:

I'm confused everyone knows he married MN and he has children when he wanted to marry Yanran, the only fault was that he was trying to sabotage someone's happiness for his mistress and children's peace.. While he was even oblivious of how evil the stupid mistress he is fighting for is.. GTY lived some stupid and dumb days back then though.. Wow 

 

Exactly, ML, even though she had no choice accepted the concubine, and she even believed that he will sleep with her, so he is just doing what she planned, even though it hurts each other, so I think the concubine issue was a misdeed from both of them, even after accepting the lady, she shouldn't always view it that he will sleep with her, and even though she viewed it like that, GTY shouldn't also play along the game and become as childish as her.. So it's still the same saying, they should just argue and pour everything out from their heart.. 

 

No everyone did not know about MN and his two children when he wanted to marry Yanran.. maybe you forgot but MN showed up after the marriage was proposed that's when they found out about her.. then she sent her kids there so they knew about the children as well.

 

If Yanran's family knew straight up about the kids and MN they would have refused out right .GTY never intended to let Yanran know about the kids and MN until after Marriage. 

 

He still said he would only be with her etc.. yet he even wanted to tease her by going with the Concubine?

 

Him even pretending to sleep with the concubine basically prove's all her worry's were correct. 

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30 minutes ago, gleek49 said:

Are you re writing history or just blind.. he was never upfront about MN or his children to the lady he intended to marry he wanted that hidden until he married her so yeah he was evil for attempting to do that. 

 

What about Madam Wu not being upfront to the Shens about 6th Liang's pregnant mistress? Was that evil?

 

I think marriage matters were a matter of due diligence by parents. Of course bachelors with a clean background and backyard were more eligible. Not making it public doesn't make GTY evil. GTY was living openly in the city with MN and kids, he didn't hide her in the countryside. The information was available if you looked just like 6th Liang info.

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7 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

I mean he still could have refused and said right there and then ML i only want you , but instead he went out of this way to try make her jealous...

 

No hes Evil in that situation to keep it a secret that he has another women and 2 children before marriage, he clearly intended to force the children and another concubine on his weak wife without letting her know before hand.

 

Im not saying hes wrong to look after his kid's/MN but not telling the wife before hand is incredibly wrong.

 

Im saying that his mistakes are part of the reason why she does not trust him and its right for her not to trust him based on what she know's. 

 

Why would ML trust GTY's character based on what she knows hes done in the past.. him saying he will only love her and only her mean's nothing during that era. 

 

The first comment of yours i replied to was about you defending his character..like hes some righteous no mistake saint, she has every right to question and think about his character. 

Hmm you are right and wrong, I think the Era excuse is not the excuse at this point, there were a lot of women, at that Era, not in the film, that enjoyed passionate love.. The matters of the heart is the same no matter the era.. So the only excuse that can be used to understand ML is her childhood experience of an unloving father.. Ml"s experience of failed relationships made her heart go into extinct not the Era.. The Era excuse is just like blaming the society MN grew up with made her into evil person, which is not, it's all about the heart and what one wants to do, the society might play some role in defining us but it can never play a role on what the heart decides... So her not trusting that simple word of I will do anything for you, is because of her experience 8of failed promises, not the Era at all

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15 minutes ago, Suzzy San said:

Hmm you are right and wrong, I think the Era excuse is not the excuse at this point, there were a lot of women, at that Era, not in the film, that enjoyed passionate love.. The matters of the heart is the same no matter the era.. So the only excuse that can be used to understand ML is her childhood experience of an unloving father.. Ml"s experience of failed relationships made her heart go into extinct not the Era.. The Era excuse is just like blaming the society MN grew up with made her into evil person, which is not, it's all about the heart and what one wants to do, the society might play some role in defining us but it can never play a role on what the heart decides... So her not trusting that simple word of I will do anything for you, is because of her experience 8of failed promises, not the Era at all

 

A lot of women did not enjoy passionate love or only one wife it was incredibly rare , its both the era and her past experience's . Shes acting a certain way due to the era not just due to past experience's. 

15 minutes ago, mooose said:

 

What about Madam Wu not being upfront to the Shens about 6th Liang's pregnant mistress? Was that evil?

 

I think marriage matters were a matter of due diligence by parents. Of course bachelors with a clean background and backyard were more eligible. Not making it public doesn't make GTY evil. GTY was living openly in the city with MN and kids, he didn't hide her in the countryside. The information was available if you looked just like 6th Liang info.

 

Yeah it was evil and wrong. GTY picked a weak wife he could basically force MN and his children on to me that was pretty evil, he was not living openly in the city with MN and the kid's and that family did not know about MN and the kid's. 

 

My point was not really to re trace these past debate's but to give some reason's why ML might question his character.

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1 minute ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

No everyone did not know about MN and his two children when he wanted to marry Yanran.. maybe you forgot but MN showed up after the marriage was proposed that's when they found out about her.. then she sent her kids there so they knew about the children as well.

 

If Yanran's family knew straight up about the kids and MN they would have refused out right .GTY never intended to let Yanran know about the kids and MN until after Marriage. 

 

He still said he would only be with her etc.. yet he even wanted to tease her by going with the Concubine? 

If that's so, like I don't remember that time again, like I said, GTY was a very stupid and smart person in the past but he used it for his own benefits to make sure the one he loves didn't get bullied, somehow his attitude MN speaks a lot that once he lived someone he will do anything, and once he hates them, he will also do anything to ruin them.. So if MN was a good person, this would have been admired by a lot of people, but unfortunately MN is a bad person so they all think he was bewitched by her.. For someone like him, if I understand him well, no matter the era we live in, well unless my heart does not want to, with his words of I will be with you, knowing what he did in his past love life, I will trust his words for his words.. So I think it still boils down to the fact that ML is still not willing to let her heart take charge and GTY is still not enduring enough to allow her heart to take charge, which he knows without any form of resistance from him, her heart wouldn't open.. So like it takes two to tango! It takes two different characters to be in love

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1 hour ago, selen4ever said:

So if the son was dead why did MN still try to go through with the plan ...:huh:

 

And this is what happens to MN after the slap (translation credit: jolie_vie) 

She very much crazy @selen4ever... She lost her mind and is willing to do anything to get money. That is why she asked GTY to be with her for one night. That one night , she can become pregnant again and give birth to another boy. That boy will become the heir and then she will later try to kill him. Since GTY wouldn’t give her the time of the day , she chose to kill him right there  and then. If she was sane , she would have  made a planned to succeed in killing him. 

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2 minutes ago, Suzzy San said:

If that's so, like I don't remember that time again, like I said, GTY was a very stupid and smart person in the past but he used it for his own benefits to make sure the one he loves didn't get bullied, somehow his attitude MN speaks a lot that once he lived someone he will do anything, and once he hates them, he will also do anything to ruin them.. So if MN was a good person, this would have been admired by a lot of people, but unfortunately MN is a bad person so they all think he was bewitched by her.. For someone like him, if I understand him well, no matter the era we live in, well unless my heart does not want to, with his words of I will be with you, knowing what he did in his past love life, I will trust his words for his words.. So I think it still boils down to the fact that ML is still not willing to let her heart take charge and GTY is still not enduring enough to allow her heart to take charge, which he knows without any form of resistance from him, her heart wouldn't open.. So like it takes two to tango! It takes two different characters to be in love

 

Even when her heart open's there will always be doubt and she will always have a back up plan in mind. 

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I remember GTY picked Yanran because she had a good reputation as a kind and sweet girl (not necessarily weak).  He was also sympathetic about her position in her family that is ruled by her mean step-mother and step siblings who bully her (very similar GTY's own and ML's situation).  GTY was upfront about everything to ML, including how he is still actively searching for his son.  If Yanran's family would have considered him and they moved towards marriage, I think he would have been honest about MN and the kids before the actual wedding.

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2 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

Even when her heart open's there will always be doubt and she will always have a back up plan in mind. 

Then she should open it, and have the back up plan, that's still much better than living in anxiety without exerting efforts to lessen it.. ML has to learn that back up plan can always be planned even when you are free at heart, everyone plans, and GTY also needs to learn that, like you said what the Era demands, no matter how free a woman is at heart, they must still plan for the future 

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6 minutes ago, Suzzy San said:

Hmm you are right and wrong, I think the Era excuse is not the excuse at this point, there were a lot of women, at that Era, not in the film, that enjoyed passionate love.. The matters of the heart is the same no matter the era.. So the only excuse that can be used to understand ML is her childhood experience of an unloving father.. Ml"s experience of failed relationships made her heart go into extinct not the Era.. The Era excuse is just like blaming the society MN grew up with made her into evil person, which is not, it's all about the heart and what one wants to do, the society might play some role in defining us but it can never play a role on what the heart decides... So her not trusting that simple word of I will do anything for you, is because of her experience 8of failed promises, not the Era at all

 

4 minutes ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

A lot of women did not enjoy passionate love or only one wife it was incredibly rare , its both the era and her past experience's . Shes acting a certain way due to the era not just due to past experience's. 

 

 I'd say its the combination of both. The era defined the relationships between the husband and wife as open. Husbands were free to choose other women to sleep with, outside the house or bring them inside and give them concubine status. Even wife's own family sent women to be taken in as concubine so that their daughter would have the control over them.

In ML's case, she has first hand experience of broken promises and uncaring father....both those things convinced her even more to just take the marriage as a job and keep her heart safe. It may hurt ML to see her husband go to another woman's bed but she has convinced herself that is what GTY would want....coz thats what all men, usually do. Men who didn't take in concubines were very rare....only one in the book was RL's husband and that too ended up causing a head ache for RL as her mother in law was insisting on concubines for her son. RL had to relent and offer her own maids for her husband. 

 

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Just now, ForgottenSoulx said:

 

I mean he still could have refused and said right there and then ML i only want you , but instead he went out of this way to try make her jealous...

 

No hes Evil in that situation to keep it a secret that he has another women and 2 children before marriage, he clearly intended to force the children and another concubine on his weak wife without letting her know before hand.

 

Im saying that his mistakes are part of the reason why she does not trust him and its right for her not to trust him based on what she know's. 

 

 

 

1. He never agree to accept the concubine, she did it all on her own. And he has been trying to get her to open up for a while until then, and she wouldn't budged, didn't even seem to be upset about the concubine, treating the whole event as a job, you expect him not get mad? The guy is short-tempered and prideful, maybe the concubine event was his limit, he couldn't keep begging her to love him all by himself all the time? His action was impulsive, from a fit of anger, desperate for some sort of reaction from her, not "went out of his way to hurt her". I'm not saying that he's right, but he was emotional, it's understandable, just like how ML being all business and no emotion is understandable. 

 

2. Everyone knew about MN, he told Yanran's grandfather that after marrying Yanran, he would only kept 1 other woman aka MN. So they knew that he's already had MN at that point. 

 

3. LOL, ML wouldn't mistrust him because of that, if she believed he was that "evil", why would she ever agreed to marry him in the first place? Or vouched for him every time someone criticizing him? She stated several times that she's afraid that he treats her too well. It's not about what mistakes he made in the past, her fear is that he would not love her like this forever, she doesn't want to love freely now then get heart-broken in the future. That's why she's setting her expectation low, not because she doesn't have absolute trust in his moral, but because she doesn't believe in loving someone forever. As I said before, she has valid reasons.

 

4. My point was never about what he did wrong to make her like this, but about how her actions, while understandable, can lead to insecurities and frustrations on his side, because while we, as audience, have seen everything and can understand why she's being like this, he doesn't. Of course, he's all angry and confused, which leads to impulsive and emotional reactions, it's all very human. Both of them are humans, and I believe that they will work it out like normal human works. There's no point of us sitting here pointing fingers and blaming and judging either of them, let just try to understand both sides and wait for them to work it out.

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1 minute ago, dito said:

 

 

 I'd say its the combination of both. The era defined the relationships between the husband and wife as open. Husbands were free to choose other women to sleep with, outside the house or bring them inside and give them concubine status. Even wife's own family sent women to be taken in as concubine so that their daughter would have the control over them.

In ML's case, she has first hand experience of broken promises and uncaring father....both those things convinced her even more to just take the marriage as a job and keep her heart safe. It may hurt ML to see her husband go to another woman's bed but she has convinced herself that is what GTY would want....coz thats what all men, usually do. Men who didn't take in concubines were very rare....only one in the book was RL's husband and that too ended up causing a head ache for RL as her mother in law was insisting on concubines for her son. RL had to relent and offer her own maids for her husband. 

 

:thumbsup: I think I have to agree with you.. It's the combination of both.. This place really makes one view things deeply.. All opinions make me think how each one of us would have faired as minglan or GTY.. I see myself being rebellious, but it's only because I've seen another Era so free and a little bit fair :sweat_smile:

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2 minutes ago, gleek49 said:

 

1. He never agree to accept the concubine, she did it all on her own. And he has been trying to get her to open up for a while until then, and she wouldn't budged, didn't even seem to be upset about the concubine, treating the whole event as a job, you expect him not get mad? The guy is short-tempered and prideful, maybe the concubine event was his limit, he couldn't keep begging her to love him all by himself all the time? His action was impulsive, from a fit of anger, desperate for some sort of reaction from her, not "went out of his way to hurt her". I'm not saying that he's right, but he was emotional, it's understandable, just like how ML being all business and no emotion is understandable. 

 

2. Everyone knew about MN, he told Yanran's grandfather that after marrying Yanran, he would only kept 1 other woman aka MN. So they knew that he's already had MN at that point. 

 

3. LOL, ML wouldn't mistrust him because of that, if she believed he was that "evil", why would she ever agreed to marry him in the first place? Or vouched for him every time someone criticizing him? She stated several times that she's afraid that he treats her too well. It's not about what mistakes he made in the past, her fear is that he would not love her like this forever, she doesn't want to love freely now then get heart-broken in the future. That's why she's setting her expectation low, not because she doesn't have absolute trust in his moral, but because she doesn't believe in loving someone forever. As I said before, she has valid reasons.

 

4. My point was never about what he did wrong to make her like this, but about how her actions, while understandable, can lead to insecurities and frustrations on his side, because while we, as audience, have seen everything and can understand why she's being like this, he doesn't. Of course, he's all angry and confused, which leads to impulsive and emotional reactions, it's all very human. Both of them are humans, and I believe that they will work it out like normal human works. There's no point of us sitting here pointing fingers and blaming and judging either of them, let just try to understand both sides and wait for them to work it out.

Well said, I'm just waiting for them to argue and work it out at this point. We are viewers, we know everything, they are character limited to their script, so all this process of fights is to make ML open up and that's why I think the writer also believes that ML has to atleast open up even if she still wants to make a survival plan for herself, which I think it's just normal for human nature, but her survival plan won't be like now where its all because she still can't trust him, due to her understandable reasons but because it's something that must be planned.. So I think the script truly wants her to open up and cherish what she have before it's too late.. So we are on mission 'open your heart' for ML :joy:

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1 hour ago, hello210 said:

I thought it was cute that GTY and ML helped their friends overcome some of the barriers due to the concubine.  And the friends got prego after :wub: Now they just need to deal with their own barriers.

 

Both ML and GTY are so sweet on helping General Shen and his wife on resolving their issues. Urgh the concubine is so annoying (despite I don't understand what they were saying in the raw lol). And I love how ML and Shen Furen (idk her name) become best friend :)

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3 hours ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

Im not sure how this works but if you maid marry's they leave right? nooo i dont want Danjuu or Xiatao to ever leave ML :(

 

Hopefully Danjuu still serves ML after her marriage. But as we can observed from Lao Tai Tai and Da Niang, both their momo are married and still serve them respectively. Probably Danjuu shall still serve ML :)

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4 hours ago, leeza77 said:

 

MY SHIP IS SAILING YEYYYY :wub:

4 hours ago, mingminglanlan said:

MEEE TOOO.... I will be so unsatisfied if XT and Shitou don't end up together. I'm so happy for ML that she has at least some loyal, trust worthy people to have her back. It seems like the tides are turning with the social circles, as every1 is seeing how genuine ML is, QH's wife and that Auntie that yelled at ML in her court yard. 

Does any1 know where I can get my hands on the english translation of the Chinese book???

 

Yup. All the patient pay off when they see how awesome ML is XD and for the english translation you could just see it here...

Unfortunetly, only 32 chapters have been translated :(

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39 minutes ago, gleek49 said:

 

1. He never agree to accept the concubine, she did it all on her own. And he has been trying to get her to open up for a while until then, and she wouldn't budged, didn't even seem to be upset about the concubine, treating the whole event as a job, you expect him not get mad? The guy is short-tempered and prideful, maybe the concubine event was his limit, he couldn't keep begging her to love him all by himself all the time? His action was impulsive, from a fit of anger, desperate for some sort of reaction from her, not "went out of his way to hurt her". I'm not saying that he's right, but he was emotional, it's understandable, just like how ML being all business and no emotion is understandable. 

 

2. Everyone knew about MN, he told Yanran's grandfather that after marrying Yanran, he would only kept 1 other woman aka MN. So they knew that he's already had MN at that point. 

 

3. LOL, ML wouldn't mistrust him because of that, if she believed he was that "evil", why would she ever agreed to marry him in the first place? Or vouched for him every time someone criticizing him? She stated several times that she's afraid that he treats her too well. It's not about what mistakes he made in the past, her fear is that he would not love her like this forever, she doesn't want to love freely now then get heart-broken in the future. That's why she's setting her expectation low, not because she doesn't have absolute trust in his moral, but because she doesn't believe in loving someone forever. As I said before, she has valid reasons.

 

4. My point was never about what he did wrong to make her like this, but about how her actions, while understandable, can lead to insecurities and frustrations on his side, because while we, as audience, have seen everything and can understand why she's being like this, he doesn't. Of course, he's all angry and confused, which leads to impulsive and emotional reactions, it's all very human. Both of them are humans, and I believe that they will work it out like normal human works. There's no point of us sitting here pointing fingers and blaming and judging either of them, let just try to understand both sides and wait for them to work it out.

 

I never said GTY accepted the Concubine but he did accept when ML suggest he go with her for the night.. Oh i know a good idea i want her to open up to me so let's go pretend to be with the concubine im sure she will change what she think's after this.. 

 

Maybe they did know about MN but they did not know GTY planned to make her a concubine and about the children.  

 

I never said GTY is a evil character but at the moment he was evil in what he was doing. I know your point was not what he did to make her feel like this? That was my reasoning as to maybe why shes a bit like this.

 

My original reply to you was about you saying she should not question his character i simply gave a reason why she might question his character.. 

 

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It may be my soft heart, but when ML told her maids that she didn't want to rely too much on her husband, my mind filled in "because losing him would devastate me more than anyone else."  I felt her first love was one she got talked into. Her second marriage prospect was one she was only luke-warm about. Her husband is someone who has handed her the world.

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